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Zimbabwe opposition leader flees to embassy as Mugabe mobs run amok



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Published Date: 24 June 2008
MORGAN Tsvangirai has taken refuge in the Dutch embassy in Harare as Zimbabwe teeters on the brink.



The leader of the opposition Movement for Democratic Change (MDC) went to the embassy on Sunday night after announcing he was withdrawing from this Friday's run-off election because of escalating violence.

A spokesman for Maxime Verhagen, the Dutch foreign minister, said yesterday: "He is temporarily at the embassy of the Netherlands in Harare. A request was made yesterday by his party, the MDC, and Minister Verhagen decided that, if he sought safety, it would be granted."

He said Mr Tsvangirai had not been granted asylum but had been told he could stay at the embassy for as long as he wished.

Robert Mugabe's government insisted Friday's run-off would go ahead. Patrick Chinamasa, the justice minister, told state radio it was too late for Mr Tsvangirai to change his mind and said the MDC leader was simply scared of losing.

In a bid to cement voters' loyalty, Mr Mugabe has ordered price cuts of up to 90 per cent in some areas. Truckloads of scarce goods are being sent from Harare to so-called People's Shops, which were inaugurated by Mr Mugabe during his campaign. These will be forced to sell bottles of cooking oil at Z$1 billion, or about 6p, according to the official Herald daily. Normally, a bottle costs Z$16 billion (£1).

As tensions rose, riot police swooped on the MDC's Harvest House HQ in Harare at lunchtime yesterday, bundling people, some of them badly injured, into a bus and taking them away. "Over 60 people, mainly women and children, victims of political violence, were rounded up," an MDC spokesman said. He described the raid as "an act of desperation and frustration after we made the decision not to participate in their electoral charade". Police told state radio "unhealthy" conditions at Harvest House prompted the raid.

Mr Tsvangirai announced his decision not to contest the run-off after scores of stick-wielding Zanu-PF supporters surrounded the venue for an MDC rally on Sunday. He said the poll would be a "sham" because voters had been told they would be killed if they voted for his party. More than 70 of his supporters have already been killed.

The MDC said Thamsanqa Mahlangu, a new MP, was battling for his life in intensive care at a Harare hospital after being assaulted by Zanu-PF militias.

Mr Mugabe's militias are now forcing terrified urban dwellers to learn – and chant – a new slogan: "WW, win or war". Some of the militias are as young as 16; a schoolteacher from Mutare told The Scotsman she recognised one of them as a pupil.

Mr Tsvangirai won the first round of voting on 29 March with 47.9 per cent – just short of the 50 per cent plus one vote he needed to avoid a rerun.

Friday's poll will not be the first time Mr Mugabe has stood as the only candidate. In 1996, his two rivals, Abel Muzorewa and Ndabaningi Sithole, both withdrew shortly before the presidential election.

Voting went ahead with all three names on the ballot papers and Mr Mugabe won with more than 90 per cent of the vote.

Brown: World must unite against 'criminal cabal'

GORDON Brown has urged world leaders not to give recognition to Robert Mugabe's "criminal cabal" in Zimbabwe, as he joined international condemnation of the brutal regime.

The Prime Minister and other Cabinet ministers joined calls for harsher sanctions on the Zimbabwean president's inner circle and their immediate family, as the UN Security Council prepared to meet last night.

Mr Brown said: "The international community must send a powerful and united message that we will not recognise the fraudulent election-rigging, violence and intimidation of a criminal cabal. The world is of one view – the status quo cannot continue. The current government, holding power only because of violence and intimidation, should not be recognised by anyone."

David Miliband, the Foreign Secretary, ruled out cutting off electricity supplies to the country, or stopping remittances of foreign currency to Zimbabwe. But he said there was a need to "consider urgently how we can put further pressure" on Mugabe and his allies.

Lord Malloch-Brown, the Foreign Office minister, said Britain may push for sanctions that force domestic firms to cut ties with Zimbabwe.


The full article contains 737 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 24 June 2008 12:06 AM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Zimbabwe
 
1

indune1,

Canada 24/06/2008 01:09:56

What a tragedy. Would it have been better to negotiste with Ian Smith?
2

Senga Jean,

24/06/2008 01:21:47
Iain Smith was an apartheid supporting small minded bigot. Those of us close to the realities in Rhodesia knew that land reform was essential. Smith preferred to listen to the Brit ex pats who coming mostly from poor areas of Britain did not wish to see the "kaffirs" as they called them get any improvement in education or occupations. The indigenous people were kept in their "place". There were no blacks with a stake in the future of Rhodesia. Smith could not see the obvious. (Just like Bush Brown and Blair)
3

Dekester,

Canada's westcoast 24/06/2008 01:22:52
What a nightmare. Was Rhodesia not known as the garden basket of Africa.

Now it will be the butcher shop. Pitiful, and yet the PC and socialist nutters will utter not a word.


All the best.

4

Dekester,

Canada's westcoast 24/06/2008 01:25:07
#2 maybe, However. He was political, not a cannibal.

Who would you rather deal with ??
5

Scullion,

Canada 24/06/2008 01:37:06
#3 This is simply another manifestation of colonialism. Yes, 30 years afterwards it is still being felt. If you rape a country then run out and leave a mob in charge that has been uneducated through your doing, what can you expect? If you put the blame only at the feet of that mob, that is sheer hypocrisy.
As Chou En Lai said when asked about the effects of the French Revolution 150 years after the fact, he correctly answered, "Too early to tell."
Colonialism has still not finished with Africa.
6

chippie lover,

och aye 24/06/2008 01:47:35
Do you think the place will be better off once the chinese have taken all the resources
7

Edward,

24/06/2008 02:13:28
David Miliband, the Foreign Secretary, ruled out cutting off electricity supplies to the country, or stopping remittances of foreign currency to Zimbabwe. But he said there was a need to "consider urgently how we can put further pressure" on Mugabe and his allies.
Milliband is a useless time serving weasel!
Robert Mugabe should be cut off at the knees for what he is doing to his country and to his people. Its a disgrace. Hard currency is what Mugabe and his henchmen rely on. Its a well known fact that he has been filtching off currency offshore. That tap should be turned off now! His movements should be restricted, if he lands in any country outside Zimbabwe, he shoul be arrested and taken to the Hague for crimes against humanity.
The man is currently blaming Britain and America for stories of brutality and killings, which he states are not happening. So thes pictures we see on TV are just made up? These people with bruises and cuts are all self inflicted. We need to act and we need to act in a firm manner. South Africa needs to get of its collective fat backside and stop giving support to Mugabe,its not smart and its not clever, times have changed Mugabe is no longer the freedom fighter, he is the tyrant and oppressor
8

jamtart,

Beechboro Western Australia 24/06/2008 02:15:24
Bush and Brown why are you not massing your troops for action to put an end to this genocide.
9

indune1,

Canada 24/06/2008 02:17:03

2- Those of us close to the realities in Rhodesia knew that land reform was essential. Thank you. How prescient of you.

"Smith preferred to listen to the Brit ex pats who coming mostly from poor areas of Britain". What utter rubbish!

What f*cking planet are you from?

5 - "If you rape a country then run out and leave a mob in charge that has been uneducated through your doing, what can you expect? If you put the blame only at the feet of that mob, that is sheer hypocrisy."

Rape? You are an idiot. Mugabe is the rapist.

What left-wing, revisionist tripe! It is to weep.
10

Huntly loon,

Aberdeenshire 24/06/2008 02:34:24
The Tory candidate for North Ayrshire and Arran has been suspended because he spoke favourably of Ian Smith. My goodness he might have spoken favourably about Robert Mugabe. The Tories should be thankful for small mercies.

This autumn Scotland and the rest of the world's footballing nations will commence the tournament which hopefully will take us to the final stages of the FIFA World Cup. This is scheduled to take place two years from now in South Africa. The way things are going I really don't think that country is fit to host such a games. Why is it that these prestige competitions fall into the lap of rather unsavoury countries. China, South Africa. I will resist the temptation of mentioning the 2012 Olympic host. This subject is no place for frivolity.

As I have already said Nelson Mandela is coming to Britain this week. It is time he made a comment on what is going on in Zimbabwe, as Desmond Tutu has a done. He needs to condemn the atrocities and the despotic nature of Mugabe's regime. How did Mugabe manage to get to Rome last month to spout his bile?
11

Matt there,

somewhere 24/06/2008 02:40:27
Brown does not care, really. Why? No oil.
12

Dekester,

Canada's westcoast 24/06/2008 03:00:45
Well said #9.

Let the idiots believe. How does the saying go " idealism increases in direct proportion to one's distance from the problem"

They are in Mars.

All the best.
13

indune1,

Canada 24/06/2008 03:30:07

12- Thanks mate. The revisionst tripe that you read on this subject makes my blood boil.

Cheers.
14

KampungHighlander,

Jakarta 24/06/2008 03:51:04
#5 Scullion

Most of the African colonies achieved Independance 40 years ago, the same time that Malaysia and Singapore achieved their independance. To blame colonialism as the cause of poor governance after 40 of managing their own affairs is ridiculous.

Before the European colonizers arrived in Africa life was short, ugly and brutish. Now that after 40 years of independance it has come full circle, should not surprise anyone.
15

Tatties ower the side,

Johannesburg 24/06/2008 06:15:47
#5 Scullion

Up until 2000 Zimbabwe was prosperous, the people were the best educated in Africa (including South Africa) and the black and white populations lived easily together as friends.

What happened? Mugabe's position as an unchallenged leader was threatened and he has wreaked havoc on the country for the past 8 years!!!

To blame the current mess on colonialism is naive in the extreme.
16

Tatties ower the side,

Johannesburg 24/06/2008 06:18:43
By the way, Mr Scullion, Mugabe is not "uneducated". BUT, he was educated in Marxist Russia and had his head filled with "Trotskyite" ideas. And,just like Pol Pot, he thinks that the population should remain as peasants and be ruled over by a small elite!!!!!!
17

ianmcg,

Cullinan 24/06/2008 06:23:39
Mugabe has been a stalinist dictator from the day he was violently elected in 1980. As usual in any "revolution" the party hacks are the new elite and tough luck to the ordinary punter. A curious reverse racism prevents the leader of SADC from doing or saying anything negative against the man who kicked the white mans *rse out of the country,mostly to the detriment of the economy. God had better be quick in removing him!
18

Itchy,

24/06/2008 06:44:57
"In a bid to cement voters' loyalty, Mr Mugabe has ordered price cuts of up to 90 per cent in some areas"

That's a good one. Wonder how many people that will put out of business.

"2 Senga Jean,
Iain Smith was an apartheid supporting small minded bigot. Those of us close to the realities in Rhodesia knew that land reform was essential. Smith preferred to listen to the Brit ex pats who coming mostly from poor areas of Britain did not wish to see the "kaffirs" as they called them get any improvement in education or occupations. The indigenous people were kept in their "place". There were no blacks with a stake in the future of Rhodesia. Smith could not see the obvious. (Just like Bush Brown and Blair)"

Robert Mugabe is a racist bigot whose Marxist 'Land Reform' has starved the country. You are a moron.
19

Itchy,

24/06/2008 06:46:47
#5 wrong. This is nothing to do with colonialism. Zimbabwe was Africa's breadbasket and the fact that is now starving is entirely down to Mugabe's idiocy.

You are a cretin for blaming the British for this tragedy.
20

TimW1234,

Ottawa, Canada 24/06/2008 06:56:22
Are any of us surprised by these latest developments?

A country ruled by a lunatic old man verging on insanity - if he is not there already - will eventually destroy itself until the international community intercedes and rids Zimbabwe of the murderer and rapist Mugabe and his equally sadistic and subhuman troops.

Good riddance to bad rubbish - hopefully by the end of the month if the CIVILISED world combines its efforts and rids that beleaguered country of that verminous piece of smelly, oozing, worm-ridden sh*te.
21

Rulesbutnotrulers,

Federation, not separation 24/06/2008 07:09:25
Mugabe is NOT the problem now. The army chiefs and those who have it all to lose if the government changes ARE the problem.

Colonialism never happened in Ethiopia, yet it has more and worse violence.

Ian Smith should be blamed for failing to read the writing on the wall. If he'd accepted Harold Wilson's offer Mugabe would never have been heard of.
22

Charles.D,

Johannesburg 24/06/2008 07:53:17
#2 You write the biggest load of rubbish I have ever seen! How close were you to Rhodesia?
#9 100% with you.

Put the screws on Pretoria, take away the 2010 W.Cup unless South Africa stops helping that animal.
23

Paul Spencer,

Glasgow 24/06/2008 07:55:02
But I want to know who Mugabe's tailor is, I suspect he is as florid as Mugabe!!
24

fife runner,

24/06/2008 08:00:49
#5 it is high time like Mugabe people stopped using colonialism as an excuse. Now China, Russia and South Africa have criticised Mugabe in the UN. Mugabe had a country which was so efficient at agriculture that it fed its neighbours. He wanted to keep power so how better to do it than pay off his cohorts with land grab.

There is no excuse for killing his own people.
25

Trade-wind,

USA 24/06/2008 08:10:11
#8 because you and people like #2 would then scream that they were war mongers and only wanted the riches of Zim. You want other to do the dirty work, then you can feel good about yourself, while bad mouthing Bush and Blair for any action. I have read to many American
slash Bush bashing slack jawed jackdaws here to ever want our country or England to ever help another soul outside of our own countries.
26

carrottop,

Dumfries 24/06/2008 08:10:57
Is the world full of cowards now, all shallow talk and even ageing left wingers coming out of the closet to start whining their drivel.
Where are all these people who marched against Rhodesia and picketed the South African embassy in Trafalger square now with their self righteous smarmy faces looking for recognition, answer: they dont take responsibility for their actions only applause.
Rhodesia was a GREAT country with the one mistake of being too slow to let the black people try to fulfill their aspirations. I had a lot of friends from Rhodesia of all races now down to a hand full as none of the people who stayed got past their fifties.
On the day of reckoning in Zimbabwe will all left winger please line up with the traitor Mugabwe and we can be done with them once and for all.
27

,

24/06/2008 08:59:17
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
28

Banana Heid,

Ayrshire 24/06/2008 09:14:22
Give the MDC Supporters Kalashnikovs and let them turn the tables on Mugabe. Mao Tse Tung said "change may come through the barrell of a gun"...Alabama 3
29

Silence of the Yams,

24/06/2008 09:33:49
Mugabe might think he's won but his rag tag country is just about finished. Even his friends in the ANC can't save him from what's coming!
30

Media 1,

cape town 24/06/2008 09:34:42
Senga #2

Nobody can deny that apartheid was wrong, but it came about because that is how the world works. Man strives to explore, hence our visit to the moon. Had there been a race on the lunar surface we would surely have colonised them such is our need to be in control. At the end of the day the world has different race groups and that is just the way it is. In terms of colonialism it just so happened that one race group was more advanced than the other and they decided rightly or wrongly to colonise. They owned those systems of education they didnt steal them, so whilst they should have shared their knowledge, we all know that they didnt. Again you can argue whether they were obliged to share their knowledge or not.
Ian Smith was merely protecting his people, much the same way that Zanu came along to protect theirs. The difference was that one man offered "his" people a quality of life, systems and competent leadership, whereas the other offers "his" people starvation, chaos and murder.
Ian Smith governed, Mugabe is trying to RULE! There is a difference.
You cannot compare the two races and their approach to workable societies, the two are at different ends of the scale.
31

Wise Man,

glasgow 24/06/2008 09:47:20
If Mugabe was white the whole world would be up in arms and no doubt bob geldof and bono with nelson mandela in toe would have some sort of rally or free zimbabwe concert. He's black so I suppose it's acceptable to rape, murder and destroy his own country. Hypocrisy of the highest order!!
32

Media 1,

cape town 24/06/2008 09:52:31
Wise Man

There is no doubt that what is happening in Zimbabwe is apartheid and discrimination of the highest order. There is no doubt that any white leader behaving in the same manner would be removed from the scene effectively immediately. But then again, we have come to expect higher standards from white leaders. So it is not hypocrasy, it is merely our understanding of white and black leadership, we expect less from Africa because she delivers us the same failure on a regular basis.
33

Rabhairt,

Cannons Creek AUSTRALIA 24/06/2008 09:54:48
I second your comment number 12, WELL SAID NUMBER 9
34

Phil the Flooter,

24/06/2008 10:22:21
#2 What a heap of left wing ,revisionist sh...te.
So WTF is Mugabe, a nice man who doesnt Murder, rape or maim his opponents?

35

Peter Baleares,

Palma 24/06/2008 10:55:18
2 Senga Jean
"If you rape a country then run out and leave a mob in charge that has been uneducated through your doing, what can you expect? If you put the blame only at the feet of that mob, that is sheer hypocrisy"

I`m afraid your poor, closed leftwing brain wont let you admit that it is a blackman that has raped and bankrupted one of the richest countries in black Africa, tortured and murdered its own people, and is backed by other black leaders of southern Africa as well as that old phoney Mandella.
The wrongs of the past dont excuse whats happening there today, as someone else has said, "where are all those whinging left wingers today" are they outside Zimbabwe`s embassy calling for change?, Are they hell.
Agree totally with you Indune1,#9
36

Rednose Harry,

Wallasey 24/06/2008 10:56:17
#2 Did colonialism spawn the Taliban in Afghanistan a country which has seen off every attempt at takeover?
Mugabe's regime isn't too far removed in terms of denying large numbers of his people their basic rights to a decent life.
#35 Absolutely correct from someone in a place to judge.
37

MisterN,

Scotland 24/06/2008 11:02:14
34

And rightly so but if he were a Muslim and expressed criticism of Israel then both the US and the UK would have invaded years ago.
Now we have the right wing on here talking up the Smith regime as if it were any better give me a break the only difference between Mugabe and Smith is one of subtlety. Rhodesia may well have been the bread basket of Africa but it only benefitted the White supremists. People were still dying of stavation and malnutrician in Rhodesia and South Africa under aparteid, Black people. There was nothing absolutely nothing beneficial about the aparteid dogma and to suggest otherwise because of Zimbabwe today is to live in the worse kind of denial.
Smith created Mugabe Smith is just as much responsible for the state of Zimbabwe today as Mugabe is.
Being "White" is no guarantee of good government is it?
W*nkers!
38

Media 1,

cape town 24/06/2008 11:13:11
MisterN

You are attempting to compare apples with oranges. I lived through apartheid and I understand the dynamic of this country...During those times I went to work on a daily basis with many black people and all of them earned money. Not much money, but they did earn and they did have homes. Much the same as Scotland except those who earn less and scrounge are supported by tax payers, thus their accomodation is slightly better in Scotland.
Nowadays, the black masses are genuinely struggling because whereas the white man provided jobs and food whils oppressing them, their new black government are stealing money from the fiscal, raping the economy, providing no jobs, little food and little hope whilst oppressing them.

Being white is of course a better guarentee of sustainable governmemt and if you disagree then let us compare the following nations with eachother.

Denmark - Nigeria
Finland - Chad
Germany - Somalia
Austria - SA
Switzerland - Ethiopia
USA - Ghana
Canada - Ivory Coast
Wales - Zambia
Scotland - Zimbabwe
Russia - Burundi
Latvia - Mozambique
Australia - Angola
New Zealand - Uganda

Need I go on?
39

El Sabio,

Sibbertoft 24/06/2008 11:36:48
Can anyone imagine any real steps being taked to oust that criminal - Mugabe - and his thugs? Talk is cheap.

Ask yourselves. I cannot see anything positive being done. The downward spiral will continue unabated. It has done so fro years
40

Peter Baleares,

Palma 24/06/2008 11:37:50
Mister N 40, I`m afraid its you thats in denial, Rhodisia under Smith was a rich country, at least in African terms, Zimbabwe is a backward and bankrupt country under Mugabe, however, I`m sure people like you and Senga Jean would give the murdering tyrant comfort knowing he has your support.


41

El Sabio,

Sibbertoft 24/06/2008 11:40:26
Incidentally, Mengistu Haille Mariam is holed up in a suburb of Harare. He, for those who do not know, was the murderous dictator of Eithiopia and was given assylum by his 'brother' dictator and murderer, Mugabe
42

MisterN,

Scotland 24/06/2008 12:00:09
41

Did any earn as much as you?
Talk about comparing apples and oranges right enough.
Better still lets compare individuals

Hitler- Ghandi
Stalin- Mandela
Thatcher- Bhutto
G Brown - Any third world leader.
Chichescu - Sedar
Milosovic - Sirleaf
Sirkoski - Selassie
Tito - Chissano
Nixon - Lumumba
Bush1 - Nkrumah
Bush2 - Obama
Reagan - Nyerere
Foot - Nzingha

Need I go on?




43

MisterN,

Scotland 24/06/2008 12:02:33
42

Start a rumour he is Muslim thats a death sentence for any world leader today.
44

TimW1234,

Ottawa, Canada 24/06/2008 12:04:29
45 MisterN

VERY clever. I could not have done better myself.

My compliments to you, sir.
45

MisterN,

Scotland 24/06/2008 12:07:08
43

I am not trying to support Mugabe the man is a despot but to suggest the people of Zimbabwe would be better off under a White supremist regime instead is quite frankly mind boggling. How would you like to live under Black supremists? or Islamic fundamentalism? even though you can still go to Asda and buy your groceries?
46

Erchie Broon,

24/06/2008 12:11:33
* 2 Senga Jean
You are so wrong.Smith could see the obvious and he told the British so -that Mugabe would destroy Rhodesia. You know nothing about apartheid judging from your comments and it is an undeniable fact that Africans were much better off economically and educationally under the former anti Communist Governments than they are now. You Liberals who know stuff all about Africa get right up my nose. Where is the great hero Mandela amidst all this drama? In London having a birthday party and he hasnt said a peep about his "brudda" in Zimbabwe. They are all of the same hue.Only interested in lining their own pockets and couldnt give a stuff about the man in the street. Colonialism was the best thing that ever happened to Africa and if the US/UK had stood up to the Marxist thugs such as Mandela 20 years ago there might still have been hope for the region.
47

MisterN,

Scotland 24/06/2008 12:16:38
49

Excellent example and an ex ally to the so called West next in line of course is Ahmadinejad. No worse than Mugabe so why target them and leave Mugabe in peace?
48

MisterN,

Scotland 24/06/2008 12:17:51
50

Aye right like to see the result of the poll you conducted in order to post that little opinion or do you think its fact?
49

MisterN,

Scotland 24/06/2008 12:23:18
50

Aye for the colonists not the indiginous populations I bet you say the same think for the indiginous Indian tribes of the US eh? do you think they are better off because of colonisation?
50

MisterN,

Scotland 24/06/2008 12:31:55
41 and 50

Have either of you lived or experianced the wrong side of Apartheid? or is your so called experiance only gained from living on the right side of it?
51

MisterN,

Scotland 24/06/2008 12:42:12
43

I see so the only options available for Black countries is to live under White supremist regimes or Black despots there is no middle ground is that whats being suggested on these blogs?
52

MisterN,

Scotland 24/06/2008 12:44:35
55

I suggest you tell the Israelli government of your discovery.
53

Busymale,

24/06/2008 13:07:36
Time to send the troops in!
54

Media 1,

Cape Town 24/06/2008 13:09:03
MisterN

In answering all your questions I would say that sadly, there is no solution to the crisis. It is either despotic black governments or one party state democracies in which the ruling party run amok. Or they can ask the white man to come back and help them, but that wont happen. So sadly there is no hope!

In terms of the right side of apartheid, I am not sure there was one. I remember those days, SA was a peaceful place and white and black people in general got on just fine, the system was unpallitable but the people were in essence in agreement about the system. We didnt like it, as was proved when over 90% of the white population voted for a change to full democratic change in 1992.
And also remember that in this country white people are made up from what we call English and Afrikaans. I remember during apartheid how the traffic police would give you a much harder time if you were English speaking as opposed to Afrikaans speaking. I remember how I was bundled into the back of a police van by two very Afrikaans army officials because I refused to go to the army and fight the ANC and their Russian counterparts during the cold war times.
I remember being deported by that old government and I remember how they swore at me and pointed fingers at me and called me a traitor Brit. But sadly those days were better in terms of safety and security, they were better in terms of litter, they were better in terms of schooling and pride in communities, they were better in that incompetence was something you only came across now and again whereas now it is a commonality in all areas of SA life. It was better because kids werent exposed to violent rape and murder and it was better because hi-jackings and murder were uncommon.
It was better because aids was nowhere near the pandemic it is now, it was better because motorists were assisted by a proper traffic department as opposed to some sub standard excuse for a police department. It was better then because when I
55

Media 1,

24/06/2008 13:09:55
It was better then because when I went to a police station to report something I was met with a friendly smile and a willingness to assist me, whereas now I am met with an angry black man who cannot write and is adamant that he is not doing all the paper work because he is tired today.
I cant expect you to understand this continent, it is impossible for you to even imagine the levels of incompetence we must endure here.
It is impossible for you to understand our pshyche. We live in a world that is beautiful and our lifestyles the best in the world. But we also live in constant fear and hear horror stories everyday about gruesome murders and rape. We hear our politicians speaking about taking up amrs and killing for Zuma and we must endure our alcoholoc minister of health telling the masses that garlic and beetroot will cure aids.
In the end I am convinced that black societies fail because as a community and as leaders they are incapable. I DONT simply make such statements based on some juvenille dislike of other races, I base it on my daily frustrations at the hands of African systems that just never seem to work.
56

heidbanger,

Edinburgh 24/06/2008 13:38:17
As there is no oil in Zimbabwe, no one in the UN will do anything about this nutter.
57

MisterN,

Scotland 24/06/2008 13:46:37
60 61

How about mixed governments with white black asian oriental Christian Muslim Jewish Hindu etc is that impossible in Africa?
Your simplistic view of our way or no way is simply idiotic in the extreme.
And dont generalise situations by giving single examples

"I went to a police station to report something I was met with a friendly smile and a willingness to assist me, whereas now I am met with an angry black man who cannot write and is adamant that he is not doing all the paper work because he is tired today."

WTF has that got to do with the price of cheese?

I can go into any shop in Princes street and see either miserable looking assistants or cheerful ones on any given day and all white.
You dont have to be white to smile although you probably have a lot more to smile about.

Get real.
58

MisterN,

Scotland 24/06/2008 13:50:20
58

One with a predominatly Black population I suppose not PC but then I am trying to disguss reality as I see it.
59

Gere,

Scotland 24/06/2008 13:51:37
Please remember Democracy was the result of the development of a form of governnance by the tolerant, literate Pagan European mind. Pericles of Athens refined and instituted this concept circa 400BC.

It worked because the ancient Greeks evolved to a level of a literate civilization. As a homogenous population they did it all themselves, not waiting for a superior techniological culture to come and colonise and educate them.

If South Africa did not introduce separation it very probably would have gone the same way as Zimbabwe long ago. In time, South Africa will go the same way as Zimbabwe and other Black African Governments. There is no reason to believe otherwise, a study of black African Governments on the African continent strongly indicate this prognosis.

Even after generations of Black Africans having been born and educated in Britain it was found necessary to creat a special British Police Task Force to expressly deal with attempting to stop British born Blacks from murdering each other. This Police task force is known as Operation Trident. No other race, as far as I know, has ever needed a special Police task force to prevent what could be described as a form of self-inflicted genocide in the community's adopted country.

This could help explain what is happening in self governing Black African countries.
60

MisterN,

Scotland 24/06/2008 13:54:40
58

Saddam Hussains credentials with Israel and the West changed with the political agendas of the respectives countries even though he has always been a murderous b*stard. They didnt give a sh*t as long as he murdered his own or Iranians they did however feel the need to do something when he went after the Kuwaiti oil and started shouting about a Jihad against Israel.
So you see being a murderous despot isnt enough to get you depossed you have to be a threat to Israel or to natural resourses before the US takes an interest in your demise.
61

MisterN,

Scotland 24/06/2008 14:01:30
65

Your are talking about a continent which hasent had a chance to develope its indiginous peoples during colonisation and apartheid regimes. An indiginous population deliberately kept down and away from basic human rights such as equal education, travel, equal wages. They were also denied training, promotion, in fact everything we take for granted. And you wonder why they struggle to run their own countries?
Our governments are all run by educated sophisticated world wise politicians and they still f*ck it up and are equally corrupt if better and more subtle about hiding it.
Dont make the mistake of glorifing what we have in comparrison to what is happening in Africa.
Like somebody said earlier its apples and oranges.
62

Gere,

Scotland 24/06/2008 14:02:02
Post #63

Having read your post I am forced to arrive at the conclusion that you have done little reading covering the reality of life in Africa under a Black Government.

No comparison can be even remotely drawn between shopping in Princess Street and the stark reality of life in Africa. I also believe ther is a prescribed bribe to be paid at Police stations over there before the receipt of service.
63

Gere,

Scotland 24/06/2008 14:06:02
Post #66
MisterN

What clarity of perceptual thought you display!

Few people are able to call on the level of discernment you have shown in your post!

Advise the Zimbabwian oposition to convert to Judasim and sit back, America will not be long in invading and liberating the Zimbabwian people!!
64

MisterN,

Scotland 24/06/2008 14:06:45
68

Oh get a grip and read it again the comparrison isnt between shopping in Princes street and life in Africa.
What are you on?
65

MisterN,

Scotland 24/06/2008 14:09:05
68

The comparrison is about making simplistic statements to cover general situations.
would you no be better reading comics?
66

MisterN,

Scotland 24/06/2008 14:13:44
69

Many a true word spoken in jest.
I wonder why the phrase is used so often?
67

Gere,

Scotland 24/06/2008 14:17:13
Post#67

MisterN

I refer you to my Post#65. Please take note of the fact that the originators of Democracy did it in 400BC.

No Black African country was colonised at that time!

Why did they fail to attain the evolution of a written language by the time the first colonisers who incidently were Arabs arrived????

The Black Africans had the same time that the Greeks had to acheive this!!
68

Peter Baleares,

Palma 24/06/2008 14:18:14

Gere 65/ Thats a very interesting observation, I myself had been wondering wether the black on black trouble in the UK was tribal, without they, themselves realizing it.

69

MisterN,

Scotland 24/06/2008 14:18:17
68

Oh aye and the Police in this country are way above bribery ask any crime boss.
70

MisterN,

Scotland 24/06/2008 14:22:42
73

According to archeologists Human life evolved first in Africa and moved on so its safe to say that Africans are responsible for all human acheivements.
Now how is that for simplistic thought?
Anybody can use it to avoid the real issues in a discussion and is that any less relevant to the point your trying so hard to make?
71

Gere,

Scotland 24/06/2008 14:23:03
Posts #70,71,72 refers
MisterN

I notice no comment from you regarding Operation Trident!

After reading your intellectually myopic and obtuse comments I recall a truism, goes something about casting one's pearls before-------!

You are in a state of denial about something!!!!
72

MisterN,

Scotland 24/06/2008 14:24:18
74

Hmm so is white on white trouble on the UK tribal as well?
73

MisterN,

Scotland 24/06/2008 14:27:44
77

Dont see any relevance this so called operation Trident has to the blog and I dont see how it has any relevance in the defence of white supremacy maybe you can eloborate how this makes the white man superior to the black man?
74

MisterN,

Scotland 24/06/2008 14:29:10
77

I am in a state of denial about your intellect and objectivity.
75

Gere,

Scotland 24/06/2008 14:32:08
Post# 76
MisterN

Problem with what you stated in your post #76 is;

Pericles was not a Black African, Hipocrates was not a Black African, Galen was not a Black African, Socrates was not a Black African, Aristotle was not a Black African, Pythagoras was not a Black African, the list simply goes on and on and on!

The invention of placing a tyre around someone's neck and setting them alight is a a distinctively Black African innovation, originating in South Africa I believe.
76

MisterN,

Scotland 24/06/2008 14:33:31
81

genetically he was as are we all.
Simplistic in the extreme.
77

C.U. Jimmy,

24/06/2008 14:37:44
What these posts illustrate is yet another form of apartheid. This is the one that separates:

People who actually live, or have lived, in Africa, and can claim to know from first-hand experience what they are talking about;

AND

MisterN and the other ignoramuses. These sad but presumably well-intentioned folk, to quote a phrase from my childhood, "open their mouths and let their bellies rumble".
78

All Politicians are the same,

Scotland 24/06/2008 14:39:00
#79

African tribes have been killing each other for thousands of years and they still divide along tribal lines when put into government. It can't all be the even colonialists fault, we generally left a pretty good infrastructure which they then destroyed. we didn't suddenly stop buying their goods yet they stopped making them. We must help and support them but we are not even allowed to do that as its seen as colonial interference. What are we meant to do? Lots of criticisms here no answers or solutions.
79

Gere,

Scotland 24/06/2008 14:42:46
Post#79
MisterN

Operation Trident demonstrates that even after generations out of Africa someone has to keep Black Africans from killing each.

The need for the existance for operation trident graphically illustrates that Black Africans remaining in Africa will remain in dire need of protection from their own for generations to come!!


80

MisterN,

Scotland 24/06/2008 14:45:38
83

How do you know I have never lived in Africa?
What we are seeing is people who have experianced one side of apartheid but not the other and its given them the mistaken belief they are somehow better human beings than those who have had to endure the wrong side of apartheid.
Self delusion at its worst and then there are the morons like yourself just dustbins willing to take anything in if it fits your own ignorant predudices.
People like you are so easily led by the nose with no effort whatsoever. Something to be proud of.
81

Gere,

Scotland 24/06/2008 14:45:53
Post #85
Apologies, the word "other" is missing at the end of the first sentence of my post
82

MisterN,

Scotland 24/06/2008 14:49:21
85

No it doesnt it was simply a one of Police operation.
Should have been used in the 50s in the Southern States of the US to stop the KKK from killing Black Americans for the crime of being black.
Didnt see or hear of any local white police forces used effectively for that did you?
Do you think a black American police force could have done a better job protecting the black American popultion of the southern states during the 50s and 60s?
83

Gere,

Scotland 24/06/2008 14:49:25
Post #86
MisterN

Have you considered the fact that without what you refer to as apartheid one of your own would have killed you before you left Africa?????
84

C.U. Jimmy,

24/06/2008 14:53:01
86, I know from the twaddle you write that you have never lived in Africa. Prove me wrong.
85

MisterN,

Scotland 24/06/2008 14:54:43
89

One of my own what?
Fact or wishful thinking? do you actually know what a fact is?
86

MisterN,

Scotland 24/06/2008 14:56:45
90

I lived in Algeria for just over a year?
And my wife is Black from Zimbabwe been there twice. Hence the interest. How about you? where does you dearth of knowledge spring from?
87

Allan(handofgod137),

24/06/2008 15:02:26
#76, So how do you account for the fact that those who "moved on" achieved progress while those who stayed didn't. Why don't you go there and help the people, or would that entail you actually doing something?
88

MisterN,

Scotland 24/06/2008 15:03:18
90

Come on Jimmy dont give up so easily show us how clever you think you really are.
89

georgia,

outside chicago 24/06/2008 15:03:18
Bush, Broon, and others of their shameful ilk will not intercede in African affairs because, in the grand scheme of world supremacy, China has already been granted sovereignty over Africa. The USA will get the Middle East, and Russia will get India and some of its surrounding neighbor countries. If you think this is farfetched, take a look at how things are getting divvied up already, bank-wise and resource-wise, etc. Of course, I have nothing scientific to prove this, but I believe the handwriting on the wall clearly showed itself with Chinese-backed murder in Darfur, for instance, which has been allowed to continue unabated for years and years. Why? Because Africa is going to the Chinese eventually, and no other of the major powers wants to/needs to intercede there. Just as no one will seriously intercede in other problem areas, like Israel and its neighbors....

The Bushies have pulled a double whammy on the world, going it pretty much alone in the Middle East because they really want to, but letting the other side criticize them for it as a fault - we liberals are just banging our heads against what is a very well-orchestrated "spin" organization, which has no collective conscience and is almost automotonic in its total outlook.....we are as screwed as the Zimbabweans, although we still don't always own up to it.....
90

Gere,

Scotland 24/06/2008 15:06:47
Post# 91
MisterN

How do you cope with everyday life with the hatred you harbour for people with white skins????

It must be a living hell for you to be able to contain that hatred when you are surrounded by white people!
91

C.U. Jimmy,

24/06/2008 15:07:22
92, I'm ahead of you. Lived in East Africa for almost 3 years, served as honorary consul there for a European country, worked with the locals, spoke the language, had the authentic African experience.

Also, saw many dead bodies on the street, witnessed shocking behaviour between locals of different tribes (e.g., my secretary saying in all seriousness: "I could happily kill someone from the [such and such] tribe", saw the infrastructure crumbling - raw sewage bubbling up along the street, experienced daily brown-outs despite the power being hydro-electric, had a friend shot dead when he refused to hand over the keys to his aid agency's Land Rover, etc, etc.

Get the picture? By the way, what relevance is your wife's colour to any of this?
92

jouster,

perth 24/06/2008 15:07:39
Media1: "...the system was unpallitable but the people were in essence in agreement about the system..."

Sure, if by that you mean "forced to comply with the system by some of the vilest laws in human history."

I'm not particularly left-leaning in political terms, but to claim that those most affected by apartheid essentially agreed with it is ludicrous, presumptive and insulting.
93

MisterN,

Scotland 24/06/2008 15:08:00
93

There is severe poverty outside of Africa as well or didnt you know that?
Some Africans are better off than some Europeans or didnt you know that either?

Why dont you? youre obviously one of those who thinks they are incapable of helping themselves not me.
94

MisterN,

Scotland 24/06/2008 15:11:28
97

Aye and I had the same experiances in Bosnia over the 2 years I spent there with the UN.
They even invented a whole new description for tribal warfare "ethnic cleansing" remember that wee gem.
And funnily enough the UN put Black African troops in to protect the White minorities from killing each other. Kind of makes your arguements look a b