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With backlog of 670, US's longest death row is 'near breakdown'

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Published Date: 02 July 2008
CALIFORNIA'S death penalty system is dysfunctional, overloaded and teetering on the point of collapse, an independent inquiry has warned.
A 145-page report by the California Commission on the Fair Administration of Justice (CCFAJ), which carried out a four-year review, calls for urgent reform and an extra $95 million (£48 million) a year to save the system from total breakdown, and urg
es that the state consider granting more life sentences in lieu of death.

California's death row is the largest in America, with 670 inmates awaiting execution. It is also the slowest; since 1978, when the death penalty was restored by public referendum, just 13 prisoners have been executed amid a severe backlog in post-conviction proceedings and appeals.

Yet on average, the courts are adding 20 to the waiting list each year. Just clearing the list as it stands would involve executing five prisoners a month for the next 12 years – a scenario considered highly unlikely.

"We currently have a dysfunctional system," the commission declares. The lapse of time from sentence of death to execution averages more than two decades in California.

"The families of murder victims are cruelly deluded into believing justice will be delivered with finality during their lifetimes. Those condemned to death … must wait years until the courts determine they are entitled to a new trial or penalty hearing," the CCFAJ report says.

It urges: "The time has come to address death penalty reform in a frank and honest way."

The CCFAJ noted opinions and testimony from 72 witnesses – including judges, prosecutors and defence lawyers, police officials, crime victims and representatives of advocacy groups – during the course of three public hearings and four years of review. It also funded independent research by academics and the Rand Corporation, a respected policy think-tank.

At the heart of the problem is a shortage of willing and adequately qualified lawyers to handle appeals, which the CCFAJ recommends be fixed at a cost of $95 million a year. California currently pays such lawyers less than the federal standard and few are prepared to take on cases that will tie them up for at least 12 years.

It currently takes up to five years just to appoint a lawyer to represent inmates, for whom appeals are automatic under law. Lower courts could be given the remit to handle final appeals – relieving the over-burdened Supreme Court, which currently has exclusive jurisdiction. The CCFAJ further suggests, though does not explicitly recommend, that the state may wish to consider abolishing the death penalty altogether, or narrow the criteria by which criminals are deemed suitable for execution – and apply those new criteria to inmates retrospectively.

While anti-death-penalty advocates welcomed the report, the CCFAJ's 22 panel members were divided, with some disassociating themselves from it. Such moves "would exclude some of California's most brutal murderers from death row," they complained, including current inmate Gregory Scott Smith, who kidnapped, sodomised, strangled and burned an eight-year-old boy, and Mitchell Sims, who strangled and drowned a pizza delivery man then forced his victim's colleagues into a walk-in refrigerator and hung them.

Executed after a quarter-century wait

STANLEY "Tookie" Williams, a founder and early leader of the Crips street gang that terrorised Los Angeles in the 1970s and 1980s, was one of the most notorious killers executed in California in recent years.

His death on a hospital trolley in San Quentin in December 2005 became a cause célèbre for anti-death-penalty campaigners. They argued that Williams was innocent of four murders in two robberies, and had also renounced his gang background while in prison, writing inspirational books and being nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize.

His execution was the 12th since California reinstated the death penalty in 1978. Aged 51 when he died, Williams had spent 24 years and eight months on death row.

Ronald Bell, 57, who shot and killed a jewellery store clerk and seriously wounded another in a botched 1978 robbery, is the state's longest-serving death row inmate, having spent 29 years and four months at San Quentin.

Bell's third appeal reached California's Supreme Court in October. He argued that he was framed and it was his brother Larry, who was convicted of a murder in an unrelated case a year later, who was the real killer.

His appeal was dismissed in January, but some observers say it was unusual for legal action still to be taking place almost 30 years after the death sentence was passed.

"As long as litigation takes, this is really long," said Robert Matthias, California's deputy attorney general.



Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 01 July 2008 10:11 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
 
1

Scullion,

Canada 02/07/2008 02:29:43
Yet another reason for the abolishment of the death penalty. For those Ayn Rand types who seek morality in cost this article shows that it is in fact cheaper to have a prisoner serve a full life sentence than to execute them.
2

Teofilio Cubillas,

02/07/2008 03:08:51
This isn't a reason for the abolition of the death penalty at all. It's a reason for the abolition of the byzantine appeals system in the United States. There are many good reasons for the abolition of the death penalty but p1ss poor admin isn't one of them.
3

postmark55,

Chongqing, China, 02/07/2008 04:07:16
There are no reasons to have the death penalty. The death penalty solves nothing, it only endorses premiditated murder, for that is exactly what the death penalty does and what the death penalty is. There are more effective ways to deal with the criminals, and killing is wrong, with no exception other than self defence. The death penalty is in no way a deterrent, as this article has proven ,that's why the list for death row keeps growing. If it was a deterrent, there would be no death row, as plain and simple as that.
4

Dáithí,

San Jose 02/07/2008 07:38:34
Postmark55 - Aren't you the guy that said that people in China aren't shot before they've had a 'fair trial'?

Can we look forward to you ending the shootings of Tibetan protesters?

Apparently shooting them DOES work as a deterrent, because once you've shot them all there are no more protesters!
5

postmark55,

Chongqing, China, 02/07/2008 08:13:49
#4 Dáithí,
Aren't you the guy who was clever enough to have your true identity revealed, as well as that of your wife's?
No point getting into a debate with someone of your mentality.
6

Dáithí,

San Jose 02/07/2008 08:43:24
Postmark55 -

So, would that entitle me to a fair trail before I was shot in China? Do the judges themselves shoot the guilty in the courtroom in China, or do they take them outside the courtroom to shoot them?

Does being Tibetan automatically mean guilt? Are Tibetans just shot on the streets or do you take them to 'quiet places' to shoot them after you have determined that they are guilty of being Tibetan?
7

Roy,

02/07/2008 09:32:17
California needs Henry McLeish.
8

Here Today HBOS Tomorrow,

02/07/2008 09:33:15
It´s odd how people take offence at someone being able to appeal against being killed, even if they are innocent. Indeed surveys from the UK of prison officers put the "innocent" prison population at between 5 and 15%. And that is prison officers who say that so it could be more. If the state is going to kill someone they should be entitled to appeal. However the problem with the death penalty is that executions always increase around the time of elections, or when someone is perceived as soft on crime - and that was the last executioner in Edinburgh who said that and not me...
9

MisterN,

Scotland 02/07/2008 09:58:38
Daithi

Are you seriously defending the death penalty by using an example of mass murder to justify it?
Millions of people die in war but it doesnt seem to deter others from starting new wars does it?
10

El Sabio,

Sibbertoft 02/07/2008 10:18:46
Let justice be done though the heavens may fall
11

Mashimaro,

China 02/07/2008 11:30:13
The death penalty does act as a deterrent. Postmark your logic is completely flawed.
For one thing it stops the person you kill from re-offending.
Once someone has taken a life, they give up the right to live. And if a few innocents get caught up along the way that's just tough. There are some crimes on earth that cannot be tolerated, and those who commit them should expect no mercy.
12

Guga II,

Rockall 02/07/2008 11:43:27
Why don't they just line them all up and machine gun them? That would save time as well as saving a fortune.
13

Media 1,

cape town 02/07/2008 12:09:02
Funny how we have so many moral objectors to the death penalty in a world that operates on immoral conduct. Encase you havent noticed, we are imoral by nature and any attempt to change that is merely an attempt to fight against a grain that cannot be overcome. I know a guy who is opposed to the death penalty because he says it is immoral. The same guy has been cheating on his wife with his daughters best friend for 3 years.
Yes, all of us have opinions on morality, but none of us is morally perfect.
Why confuse the issue? Murder is murder, I agree. So when a person murders another, then the state must murder him. SIMPLE! Forget morals, we dont live in a world that is moral. And forget deterent, the death penalty is not meant to be a deterent its meant to be a punishment..
If a person is guilty "beyond ANY doubt" of 1st degree murder, rape or paediophilia they must be killed immediately, no appeals.
That way, the rest of us immoral beings can get on with living our lives in the knowledge that one more completely and utterly savage monster is off the streets.
14

Media 1,

cape town 02/07/2008 12:09:20
Funny how we have so many moral objectors to the death penalty in a world that operates on immoral conduct. Encase you havent noticed, we are imoral by nature and any attempt to change that is merely an attempt to fight against a grain that cannot be overcome. I know a guy who is opposed to the death penalty because he says it is immoral. The same guy has been cheating on his wife with his daughters best friend for 3 years.
Yes, all of us have opinions on morality, but none of us is morally perfect.
Why confuse the issue? Murder is murder, I agree. So when a person murders another, then the state must murder him. SIMPLE! Forget morals, we dont live in a world that is moral. And forget deterent, the death penalty is not meant to be a deterent its meant to be a punishment..
If a person is guilty "beyond ANY doubt" of 1st degree murder, rape or paediophilia they must be killed immediately, no appeals.
That way, the rest of us immoral beings can get on with living our lives in the knowledge that one more completely and utterly savage monster is off the streets.
15

Mikey,

02/07/2008 13:02:03
The problem with the death penalty is that it doesn't work. If it did, there would be very few murders in the US.

The death penalty is about revenge, nothing more. And as for the moron whi could cope with a few innocent people dying 'along the way,' I only hope that if the DP ever came back, members of your family would be the first innocents to die. then we'd see how cocky you were!
16

Silence of the Yams,

02/07/2008 13:24:09
They can have that Richey guy back as well! Innocent my ass.
17

Biker,

Ayr 02/07/2008 14:26:53
For once I find myself in agreement with Postmark, there is no justification for judicial murder. Besides this are we sure that our judicial systems are faultless? How many (actual) people are there incorrectly on death row due to corrupt or poor police work, bought off defence lawyers or indeed plea bargaining.
Mashimaro. you once again paint with a broad brush, without joining up the dots properly.
Hey Diathi!!! how you doing? Well I hope. Sorry to hear about the infringement in your personal life. Completely unwarranted. Keep well.
18

Lost in Africa ,

02/07/2008 14:51:05
The death penalty is not a deterant so long as only 13 people are executed since 1978. In order for it to work, 5 at a time should be shot.People would then remeber there is a death penalty when they go out to commit armed robbery or carry a hunting knife on the streets to look cool.
19

2dogs in D.C.,

02/07/2008 14:54:13
I've said this before-Cyanide tablet with breakfast for convicted death row inmates. No T.V., solitary confinement, take the pill or live another day. His choice. Then, from a moral standpoint, no one has executed anyone-it was suicide.
20

mike - across the pond,

biker... 02/07/2008 15:29:33
1. look up the definition of murder before you use it in a sentence like... "judicial murder"... how you used it makes no sense... unless your aim is to be purely inflamatory... at least you didnt go on about murdering pets....

2. do you understand what "plea bargaining" is? who would "bargain" for the worst possible punishment... NOBODY plea bargains FOR the death penalty.... THAT would be called pleading guilty... and in MOST jurisdictions in the US pleading guilty takes the death penalty off the table... its not like you are bargaining for the METHOD of your execution...
21

mike - across the pond,

mikey mikey mikey 02/07/2008 15:41:33
the death penalty is reserved for the most heinous of crimes. 100 years ago, not so much, but today, you have to do some pretty special things to warrant stretching a rope...

as far as the 10-15% of the inmates being "innocent"... I dont buy it, I agree that there should be a "final" appeal for these guys, give "amensty international" or some other group who thinks they can prove these guys are not worthy of the death penalty one shot to prove the crime they committed does not warrant the death penalty... at the 5 or 10 year mark, then its "off to old sparky"... new prosecutor.... different defense team... and different judge/jury... how many leaves you have turned has NO bearing on the penalty that must paid for the crime committed...

the problem with the death penalty NOT being a deterrent is that it is SOOOO rare...
22

El Sabio,

Sibbertoft 02/07/2008 15:58:32
There is something quite obscene about keeping an individual alive for two decades on death row and then executing the felon.
23

mike - across the pond,

el sabio 02/07/2008 19:22:12
any LESS obscene than putting a monster in jail for a couple decades, then letting him/her out to roam the public??? regardless of his/her state of rehabilitation....???

or NOT giving them access to an appeals process???

not sure which side you are coming down on there pal...
24

American,

02/07/2008 19:45:23
#13-guga-or we can just hang them like they do in iran! Save $$'s on bullets.
25

American,

02/07/2008 19:52:59
#3-postmark55-What do you think is going to happen to that scum who stabbed 5 policemen to death in shanghai?? The way its reported is that he wanted revenge because he was "interrogated" about a stolen bicycle.
26

Media 1,

cape town 02/07/2008 20:02:20
Anyone who says that the death penalty doesnt work is missing the point about the death penalty. You see, the death penalty does not need to work, it need only exist to exterminate killers, rapists and paediophiles.
Those who say it is not a deterent, again, it is not meant to be a detterent, it is meant to be a final punishment.
Those who say it isnt moral..To them I say, ofcourse it isnt, how can you treat a killer, rapist savage with respect and morality?
When someone is found guilty beyond ANY doubt for really severe crimes, they should be killed immediately.
27

ddmc,

02/07/2008 20:38:29
they should be thankful G W Bush wasn't govenor of kalifornia
28

MisterN,

Scotland 02/07/2008 21:03:39
14

There are many reasons why people oppose the death penalty and morality is only one of them another one is that our justice systems are flawed and they make mistakes. A mistaken execution is a mistake which cannot be rectified nor overturned.
If we had a flawless uncorruptable justice system then the death penalty may be acceptable in some cases but while there is a chance of just one innocent being executed or an execution on political grounds then the power of life and death doesnt belong in the system.
A system which is wide open to abuse of power by the way.
Its because we are immoral that we have no right to have the power of life and death over others.
29

MisterN,

Scotland 02/07/2008 21:04:51
27

That is simply idiotic.
30

Biker,

Ayr 02/07/2008 21:09:01
If the death penalty is supposed to be a deterrant perhaps the figures in China and the US need some scrutiny. Crime in both these areas is increasing even when the dearth penalty is an option. It does not work.
31

Media 1,

cape town 02/07/2008 21:21:05
Mister N

Tell you what, if you and I could run our own nations, yours would be the one that respects the criminals and THEIR needs, whereas mine would be one that severely punished criminals.
And I bet you anything, that my idiotic society would be a lot more popular than your criminally overun society of murderers, rapists and paediophiles.
32

Media 1,

cape town 02/07/2008 21:22:58
BIKER

But what if we introduce the death sentence as a punishment?
In otherwords, forget detterents, who cares if it deters, lets just use it to get rid of the scum who commit seriously savage crimes.
33

Media 1,

cape town 02/07/2008 21:36:01
ppink

No need for you to worry, you cant be. Your utopia is the one you currently live in.
The one in which people savagely attack and murder innocent people, the one that sees grown men savagely attack innocent young woman, throw them around like rag dolls and then rip of their clothes and barbarically take advantage of their bodies without consent. (and when these savages are caught, the ppink's of the world forget the victims and do all they can to protect the rights of these savages)and then they wonder why the world they live in is so fu*ked up.
That's right ppink, this is your utopia, so no way you could possibly join mine.
34

Lynne,

Palm Beach Gardens 03/07/2008 03:55:20
Just for the sake of argument. What do you do with a man, who kidnaps a neighbor's child (age9,) holds her, rapes her, tortures her, and before he buries her alive in a plastic bag, in a hole he dug in his backyard..He gives her a stuffed animal so she won't die alone?
Do you keep this creep alive? Do you want to pay to keep this creep alive? A known pedeophile.
He confessed to the killing. He lawyered up, and had all his legal help paid for. What do you do,if this was your child?
I'm glad to say..he's now dead. But he didn't suffer the way she did. He got an injection and went to sleep. Florida doesn't use Old Sparkey anymore, unless requested by the prisoner.
How much more worse acts are there? Pedeophiles can't be cured..proven fact.. should we keep him alive to repeat offend?
I'm glad he's gone. One less to worry about, and one less for the kids to be afraid of.

35

postmark55,

Chongqing, China, 03/07/2008 10:54:20
#12 Mashimaro,
In my opinion, by doing to others what they did, you are setting a poor example. Also, if you have say a teenage son, and you don't want him to smoke, but while you are telling him this you are puffing on a cigarette, you confuse him with your double standards. I know the comparison is far from a murder point, but a comparison just the same. We have to lead by example. By killing someone else, we are only worsening an already bad situation, we don't bring back the one killed, and we are now saying that killing is OK. I'm sorry, I'll never buy that logic. There are much better and humane ways of dealing with these animals, and we should never stoop to their levels, it makes us no better.
There have also been far too many people convicted beyond reasonable doubt, where later they have been found to be innocent. The justice systems of mankind are flawed, money talks, and racism many times takes place, and the list goes on. I have never been an advocate of the death penalty, and as horrible as some of the criminals are, I will never resort to what they are guilty of, it is total hypocracy in my humble opinion.
36

postmark55,

Chongqing, China, 03/07/2008 11:06:24
#39 Lynne,
If we put the above fictitious man in your story on death row, it is more than likely that he will sit there for 10 or 20 years, and you the tax payer pays for that. What is also crazy beyond belief, is that your country actually puts a suicide watch on many of your death row inmates, what is that all about? You don't want him to take your fun away by him doing himself in? You need to realize that if you kill this guy, whenever that may be and at whatever the cost to you taxpayers, the 9 year old little girl in your story is still dead, she was still raped, and nothing will ever change that. It will also happen again by somebody else, as you are well aware of. The death penalty does not deter, as plain and simple as that.
There can not be satisfaction in your kind of revenge, there can only be guilt, and sooner or later that guilt will catch up to you, for you and I know that you can never bring back the one you killed either, just like the little girl is never coming back.
37

postmark55,

Chongqing, China, 03/07/2008 11:15:49
Media 1,
It is all about being moral. Grant it, the convicted criminals acted immorally, and deserve some kind of punishment, but the death sentence only makes it worse. Look at where you live, look not very far to Zimbabwe, and look at all the violence you have there, despite so many people losing their lives. Look at the USA, as in this story, the death penalty is being scoffed at, the lawyers get rich from it, the tax payer carries the burden, and in the end the one that was killed by the criminal is still dead. The rape victim still has been raped, and all victims are still victims, nothing has been solved, except for the fact that we fight violence with more violence. What are we saying about our society? All this violence has to stop, and killing only re-inforces killing, and yes, we need to be leaders when it comes to being moral. If nobody leads, it will just continue to be chaos, and these stories will always be in the news.
38

postmark55,

Chongqing, China, 03/07/2008 11:23:20
#26 American,
The so called scum that stabbed to death five policemen in Shanghai more than likely will get the death sentence, and I totally object to that. If and when they kill him, if they haven't done so already, those five policemen will still be dead, their families will still be grieving, so can you please tell me what has been solved? China has the death penalty, this man knew that, but he still carried out what he set out to do, and it was obviously pre-meditated. So we kill him, but somebody else will follow in his footsteps in a crime that has the death penalty, so again, what have we solved?
Most people in this forum have run China into the ground on its alleged human rights record, but you're advocating the death penalty, double standards to say the least.
39

Biker,

Ayr 03/07/2008 17:51:51
Media 1 As I posted look at the figures in both the US and (if you can get them) China. Crime rises year on year and yet the death penalty in both countries exists.
Do you trust your judicial system to get it right every time?
Lynne Your tome of sorrow does you no favours. If true. Florida has a record of executing mentaly subnormal people along with the obviously innoscent. The ratio of black to whites is huge, probably due to the inequallities of the legal system.
The death penalty does not work either as a punishment or a deterrant
40

American,

03/07/2008 19:29:00
#43-Postmark-It's only double standards on human rights when you consider the scum who stabbed the 5 cops a human, of which, I dont.
41

Lynne,

Palm Beach Gardens 03/07/2008 22:54:38
Postmark55...the guy is not fictious. There is a new law in Florida, called the Jessica Lunsford (?spelling) Law. It was named for this little girl who was murdered by this NON-FICTOUS MAN..a neighbor.

It's not revenge..it's justice.
42

Lynne,

Palm Beach Gardens 03/07/2008 22:56:28
Biker..It's true, and he the murderer, was white.
43

postmark55,

Chongqing, China, 04/07/2008 02:23:23
#46 Lynne,
My apologies, I had just assumed he was fictitious because you had startd your comment with 'just for the sake of argument'. When thinking back, I was still living in Canada when this happened, it sems to me in either late winter or early spring of 2005, and it seems to me that he was somewhat of a drifter and that he was caught in a different state from where he had commited his attrocious crime.
Don't get me wrong, I consider this guy total garbage, he's as low as they get, but killing him still won't bring this Jessica Lunsford back, and killing him is revenge.
44

ScotLJM,

Michigan 04/07/2008 02:43:33
Lynne, you are one of very few that make any sense. If any member of my family were to be harmed, I would not hesitate to use my Sig-Sauer and mete out justice on the spot. Oh! and I too am a woman.


45

ScotLJM,

Michigan 04/07/2008 03:37:00
.....And Oh! I am also ex-army, and trained to use firearms.
46

Lynne,

Palm Beach Gardens 04/07/2008 06:09:26
ScotLJM..by nature I am a pacifist..Not happy about guns and some of the gun laws. I don't like the NRA much, but I don't believe the only people who have guns should be the criminals either.

I would have to learn how to use a gun, but my husband does know how. I trust him to keep us safe. I can't trust human nature any more. The world has gone mad, as the saying goes.

Postmark55..sorry you got the wrong impression. He was found in another state because his sister helped him get out of Florida. She was not charged, probably because a deal was made. That girl was hidden for 3 days in that house while his sister and her boyfriend were living there. It was close quarters as it was a mobile home. That's some deal she got..because most people believe she knew that child was there.

I still don't think this execution was revenge..it was justice.. Justice for a 9 year old.
47

Mashimaro,

China 04/07/2008 09:40:58
#16 Mikey... I live in a country with an active death penalty and a friend of mine's cousin was executed for his part in a murder. It was very traumatic for them. I'm sure it was just as traumatic for the migrant worker they beat and then set on fire. My only regret is that he was shot and did not have the same treatment meted out to him. The best system is "guilty" "bang" done and dusted.
48

Mashimaro,

China 04/07/2008 11:02:59
#48 Killing is not "revenge" Postmark. It is punishment and justice. I just personally like the "revenge" feel to it.
Why are you westerners so afraid to say someone deserves to be punished?
It's almost as if you have been sucked into believing that there is no real evil in this world and everything can be fixed with the right medication.
Your prisons are holiday camps, your prisoners have more rights than your victims. What kind of society is that? Commit a crime and we'll fall over oursevles to make sure you get clothed and fed and educated and medical attention and you're not too hot and your not too cold and you get exercise... BAH! Give that to the people outside, I say. Make prison hell on earth.
49

Biker,

Ayr 04/07/2008 13:55:26
Mashimaro. It comes as no surprise that you have the attitude of "Bang" done and dusted. How sure are you that many of the people "dusted" are actualy guilty? I'm prepared to bet many people executed in China were innoscent.
50

ScotLJM,

Michigan 04/07/2008 14:40:00
#51 Lynne. I can appreciate you wanting to be a pacifist, however we live in a world of bad people everywhere. Having a gun at home for protection and learning to use it is, unfortunately, a good idea. To say your husband will protect you, well of course, same here, but they cannot be around you 24/7. No matter if one lives in a good, safe neighborhood as we, nowhere is immune from criminals these days. A small handgun, automatic, 9mm is ideal as it fits in a woman's smaller hand. If it does not have a safety tab, ONLY chamber a round when the need arises, takes a second or so, otherwise it is harmless.

#51 Mashimaro... I agree, at least with your latest statement. Maybe starvation in a concentration camp as was Dachau, et.al, would do justice to especially really bad people. No more being soft. They do not deserve it. The death penalty? yes, but only if there is no doubt as to guilt, and only if it is carried out within hours, not years.
51

Lynne,

Palm Beach Gardens 04/07/2008 19:21:12
ScotLJM..have you heard of the sheriff in Arizona? For the life of me, I can't remember his name right now!! Now here is a man who has his priorities right.
His prison has become so overcrowded because of "illegals" that he has a prison tent city. Arizona is hot..It's 114 today (dry heat)..They do not have air conditioning in tent city, I don't think in the jail either, I'm not sure. At any rate. His prisoners wear Pink underwear, work for their food..which consists of bologna sandwiches, and MUST SPEAK ENGLISH. He says there are laws on the books that require illegals to leave, and he has them driven out of Arizona to the border when they are through doing their time. Life for these guys is not good. They get the weather channel and Disney.. the result is that the illegals appreciate the guy for making them learn English, and keeping it tough. Many have no plans to return to the states once they get back to Mexico, or at least that is what they say.

As far as getting a gun..I'm afraid of them...but probably somewhere down the line..who knows. When I was living in NY, my house was burglarized, and all we kept thinking, was, what if we were home?, what if they had guns?..So, I guess maybe you are right, about this.
It's nice meeting someone who is a woman of power!!!
You should visit around some of the other articles too, as it would be really nice to get some of your views on them.
52

ScotLJM,

Michigan 05/07/2008 10:00:06
Lynne, yes indeed, I have read about that sheriff, although did not remember in Arizona. He certainly is controversial, and do not remember his name either! Saw him on TV too. His methods are extreme, but if that is what it takes, then let him keep at it.

If some day you do decide to learn to shoot, there are many good licensed instructors around, and there are classes just for women too, which I would find less intimidating. Check with local firearms dealers. I just feel more secure at home knowing I have personal protection if needed, sad to say. One never knows these days, with the economy the way it is, people are desperate. When I was at the gas station last week, a man was going from car to car asking for gas money. That has NEVER happened before! AND, with our trash out for pick-up, a car was driving around and a guy was helping himself to things. So sad.

All the best to you and family!
53

ScotLJM,

MI 05/07/2008 15:00:38
Lynne, I meant to add that I hope we can again give opinions on another topic, If the "Scotsman" doesn't ban me for chatting off the subject as I have done, re: above!
Linda, Scot.LJM
54

Lynne,

Palm Beach Gardens 05/07/2008 23:25:12
ScotLJM...Happy 4th

www.jacquielawson.com/viewcard.asp?code=1530222627739&source=jl9
55

ScotLJM,

06/07/2008 15:01:44
Lynne,Palm Beach Gardens.
Thank you so much for the "4th." card!
I've had Jacquie Lawson cards for other occasions, so yours was indeed enjoyed!

Hope YOU had a good Independence Day, we went to the Lake Huron shorefront since it was such a gorgeous cloudless day, what I refer to as a California day, and then dinner after. Hope yours was equally enjoyable!

Wish there was a way of getting each other's E-Mail address, without the whole world knowing it, as is with this momments chat.

Well, going to resume watching Wimbledon tennis, men's final, as I love the game.

Hope to keep chatting though..... Linda.

56

Lynne,

Palm Beach Gardens 07/07/2008 17:59:09
Linda..indeed we enjoyed ourselves down here. The community I live in has it's own fireworks show..It's great.
I'm glad you enoyed the card..and we will figure some way to do this..exchanging e-mails.

I'm a big fan of tennis and have played for the last 22 years..
That was the best final in men's single I have ever seen!!

Lynne
57

Lynne,

Palm Beach Gardens 07/07/2008 22:43:06
Linda...keep checking here..or go to Veil lifts plight on child brides..I think I found a way..waiting to hear from a friend.
58

ScotLJM,

Michigan 08/07/2008 00:02:29
Hello Lynne, Glad you had a nice 4th.
Yes, that was a great tennis final, there was a time when scores were made on service aces alone, and that got boring to watch, but now it is back, more or less, to "the good old days" of play. Federer de-throned! Next will be the US Open. Hooray!

Okay, I will check with the Veil Lifts, etc. story if this one disappears.

I too was an avid tennis player, all year too, I belonged to a club with indoor courts for winter play. I don't play at all these days though.

Well, I will think about the e-mail thing, I may just give it to you in this forum, and if any kook mails me, I'll shut them out prmanently. Someone did find out my address once, I did not give it out, but I got rid of him.

'Bye for now!




59

ScotLJM,

MI 08/07/2008 02:29:27
Lynne, Could not find article "Veil Lifts Plight On child Brides"

Can you elaborate? Linda
60

Lynne,

Palm Beach Gardens 08/07/2008 06:12:16
Linda

left hand side..bottom (as of now)(page) 2..

I am waiting to hear from a friend of mine.. for permission to write his e-mail address here. Then he will send me yours.
61

ScotLJM,

M I 08/07/2008 13:18:23
Lynne, Good Morning! Well, last night I made a request to the Editor of this newspaper, asking if they had any way of revealing my E-Mail address to you. After all, they know what it is, and presumably yours too. So far no word.

If this does not work, there will be your friend. 'Til later......Linda
62

Lynne,

Palm Beach Gardens 08/07/2008 15:09:34
Hi Linda
My friend siad I may use his e-mail. His name is Jake..
His e-mail.. oneohonerunner@yahoo.com

A very nice man is he. he goes by the name 57Nomad.

Talk to you soon...Lynne
63

ScotLJM,

Michigan 08/07/2008 17:11:17
Hi Lynne
Okay! Jake has my info. for you, how nice of him to do this. I did get a response from the editor, and they will not reveal any data....so it is good we are doing it this way.

Looking forward to your E-Mail!
64

Lynne,

Palm Beach Gardens 08/07/2008 17:29:44
Hi Linda..Me too.

Lynne
65

57Nomad,

california 08/07/2008 20:43:18
#31 Biker

Biker said:

"If the death penalty is supposed to be a deterrant perhaps the figures in China and the US need some scrutiny. Crime in both these areas is increasing even when the dearth penalty is an option. It does not work."

You are mistaken. The rates of violent crime are rather low in the US. Especially when compared to our lawless European cousins. Savages!

To wit:

"A UNITED Nations report has labelled Scotland the most violent country in the developed world, with people three times more likely to be assaulted than in America.
England and Wales recorded the second highest number of violent assaults while Northern Ireland recorded the fewest."

Do you have an explanation?






 

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