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Veil lifts on plight of child brides


Two girls' fight against pre-teen marriages shocks Yemen

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Published Date: 06 July 2008
ONE morning last month, Arwa Abdu Muhammad Ali walked out of her husband's house and ran to a local hospital, where she complained that he had been beating and sexually abusing her for eight months.
That alone would be surprising in Yemen, a deeply conservative Arab society where family disputes tend to be solved privately. What made it even more unusual was that Arwa was nine years old.

Within days, Arwa had become a celebrity in Yemen, whe
re child marriage is common but has rarely been exposed in public. She was the second child bride to come forward in less than a month; in April, a 10-year-old named Nujood Ali had gone by herself to a courthouse to demand a divorce, generating a landmark legal case.

Together, the two girls' stories have helped spur a movement to put an end to child marriage, which is increasingly seen as a crucial part of the cycle of poverty in Yemen and other Third World countries. Pulled out of school and forced to have children before their bodies are ready, many rural Yemeni women end up illiterate and with serious health problems. Their babies are often stunted.

The average age of marriage in Yemen's rural areas is 12 to 13 and the country, at the southern corner of the Arabian Peninsula, has one of the highest maternal mortality rates in the world.

"This is the first shout," said Shada Nasser, a human rights lawyer who met Nujood after she arrived at the courthouse to demand a divorce. Nasser decided instantly to take her case. "All other early marriage cases have been dealt with by tribal sheikhs, and the girl never had any choice."

But despite a rising tide of outrage, the fight against the practice is not an easy one. Hard-line Islamic conservatives, whose influence has grown enormously in the past two decades, defend it, pointing to the Prophet Muhammad's marriage to a nine-year-old. Child marriage is deeply rooted in local custom here, and even enshrined in an old tribal expression: "Give me a girl of eight, and I can give you a guarantee" for a good marriage.

"Voices are rising in society against this phenomenon and its catastrophes," said Shawki al-Qadhi, an imam and opposition member in parliament, who has tried unsuccessfully to muster support for a legal ban on child marriage in Yemen in the past. "But despite rejections of it by many people and some religious scholars, it continues."

A 1992 Yemeni law set the minimum legal age of marriage at 15. But in 1998 Parliament revised it, allowing girls to be married earlier as long as they did not move in with their husbands until they reached sexual maturity.

For Nujood, a bright-eyed girl barely four feet tall, her ordeal began in February when her father took her from Sana, the Yemeni capital, to his home village for the wedding. She was given almost no warning.

"I was very frightened and worried," Nujood recalled in her family's bare three-room home. "I wanted to go home."

The trouble started on the first night, when her 30-year-old husband, Faez Ali Thamer, took off her clothes as soon as the light was out. She ran crying from the room, but he caught her, brought her back and forced himself on her. Later, he beat her as well.

"I hated life with him," she said, staring at the ground in front of her. The wedding came so quickly that no one bothered to tell her how women become pregnant, or what a wife's role is, she added.

Her father, Ali Muhammad al-Ahdal, said he had agreed to the marriage because two of Nujood's older sisters had been kidnapped and forcibly married, with one of them ending up in jail. Ahdal said he had feared the same thing would happen to Nujood, and early marriage had seemed a better alternative.

Poverty is one reason so many Yemeni families marry their children off early. Another is the fear of girls being carried off and married by force. But most important are cultural tradition and the belief that a young virginal bride can best be shaped into a dutiful wife.

Nujood complained repeatedly to her husband's relatives and later to her own parents after the couple moved back to their house in Sana. But they said they could do nothing. To break a marriage would expose the family to shame. Finally, her uncle told her to go to court. On April 2, she said, she walked out of the house by herself and hailed a taxi.

It was the first time she had travelled anywhere alone, Nujood recalled, and she was frightened. On arriving at the courthouse, she was told the judge was busy so she sat on a bench and waited. Suddenly he was standing over her, imposing in his dark robes. "You're married?" he said, with shock in his voice.

Right away, he invited her to spend the night at his family's house, she said, since court sessions were already over for the day. There, she spent hours watching television, something she had never known in her family's slum apartment, which lacks even running water.

When Nujood's case was called the next Sunday, the courtroom was crowded with reporters and photographers, alerted by her lawyer. Her father and husband were also there; the judge had jailed them the night before to ensure that they would appear in court. (Both were released the next day.) "Do you want a separation, or a permanent divorce?" the judge, Muhammad al-Qadhi, asked the girl, after hearing her testimony and that of her father and her husband.

"I want a permanent divorce," she replied, without hesitation. The judge granted it.

Despite the victory, Nasser and other advocates say they are worried about the lack of legal means to fight early marriage. Nujood's case only reached the court because she took such an unusual step and happened upon a sympathetic judge.

"We were lucky with this judge," Nasser said. "Another judge might not have accepted her in court, and would have asked her father or brother to come instead," and Nujood would probably still be married today.





The full article contains 1046 words and appears in Scotland On Sunday newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 05 July 2008 7:42 PM
  • Source: Scotland On Sunday
  • Location: Scotland
 
1

Wayne,

Calabash 06/07/2008 00:21:12
So,Allah was a pedophile?And these people live a lifestyle after him??
2

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 06/07/2008 01:49:47

Culture and Lifestyles; Yes there is Still many a Wrongs in our World! and they should be outlawed!

But why should we be the,..'Richeous Ones' when we allow Abortion up to 24weeks and beyond in Soo Called special Cases,?
3

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06/07/2008 03:18:18
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4

W Smith,

Middle East 06/07/2008 03:58:14
"The Islamic faith is one of the world's great religions.......We are PRIVILEGED to have in Scotland one of the most productive and PATRIOTIC muslim communities"

Alex Salmond, September 2001.

Oh aye.

So Osama Saeed is 'patriotic' then eh Salmond?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_depth/uk_politics/2001/conferences_2001/snp/1554173.stm
5

Guga II,

Rockall 06/07/2008 07:12:56
#1. Not Allah you idiot. You mean Muhammed. And the word is paedophile.
6

Kenny A,

06/07/2008 08:13:55
And some idiots recently have been advocating Sharia law as it is good for the family and instills values in the young.

Whatever was installed in this child it had no value.

7

Kenny A,

06/07/2008 08:17:39
######4 w smith

Salmond is a politician, which basicaly with very few exceptions, Donald Steward is the only one to spring readily to mind means he is a two faced lying greasy son of a beeep. Saying that he is about the best of the rancid bunch out there.

Dont like politicians.
8

Biker,

Ayr 06/07/2008 09:41:06
Sadly, and like other religions, the actual words are open to interpritation by fools. I cannot begin to inagine how these girls survive in this kind of existance. Why their fathers think it the right thing to do. This situation in Yemen (and other countries)is beyond dispair.
9

Horrible Cankers at the Cyber Shebeen,

06/07/2008 12:16:59
The mothers wishes will never be taken into account...they will be immaterial...what kind of father can allow his 9 year old daughter to be raped? I wonder, just how these cultures might have advanced, had they not had the benefit of a mysogynistic religion that dictates females are male property and there to be used as man wishes?...because this is what they blame it on...tradition, history etc etc etc...

For sale...one 9 year old daughter...to be raped by the highest bidder..and as often as you like...
10

Tim C,

Southern England 06/07/2008 13:02:45
This article will be an inspiration for British child abusers: forget Thailand, become a muslim and head for the Yemen.
And keep an address in Glasgow East, to encourage sympathy if you are caught.

11

TimW1234,

Ottawa, Canada 06/07/2008 13:14:14
Horrible Cankers

Good morning, madam, and I see you are in your usual state of high shriek and indignation.

Islam is a very strange "religion" and to allow 9 and 10 year old girls to be raped and married is inhumane.

But what is one to expect from a "religion" founded by an illiterate paedophile who supposed receieved the word of God/Allah directly. Poppycock!
12

Mashimaro,

China 06/07/2008 16:04:10
I wish other nations would be as outraged by your country's short commings as you are by theirs.
If these people are doing it in their own country it is basically none of your business. If they do it in your country, by all means, arrest them, rebuild their kitchen, and then release them. ha ha ha ha ha ha
suckers.
13

Biker,

Ayr 06/07/2008 16:10:21
Mashimaro. Once again you display the sence and sensitivity of a gross idiot. If this practice is being done in the name of some ficticious charicter then it should be condemed outright globaly. But then again, why should we expect any more for the country who kills people and sells their organs.
Dont be so stupid.
14

yoric,

06/07/2008 18:17:22
So what part of Sharia law would certain learned judges and the Archbishop of Canterbury like to adopt into British law then?
Property disputes? disputes over business? Child rape?
15

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06/07/2008 20:42:03
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16

Cerberus,

Hades 06/07/2008 21:01:00
Regarding English and Scottish Law with Sharia and the ignorant remarks above:

The Jews are allowed conduct certain aspects of their lives under Jewish Law, in the British isles.

The Jews do not insist that the the laws of Britain alter to allow girls to marry at 12; as their laws state.

The Jews do not insist that you mutilate your boys genitals at the age of 13; as their laws state.

The Jews use their own laws within UK laws and there is no problem.

Why would anyone, who is not pig ignorant/racist, have problems with Muslims having theit own laws in the UK?
17

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06/07/2008 21:08:30
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06/07/2008 21:19:36
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Horrible Cankers at the Cyber Shebeen,

06/07/2008 21:22:45
12...It is the right of every civilised human being to decry the crime of rape...particularly child rape...you have yet to display you belong in that category...

16...NO other cultures/religions/cults/nutters should have their own laws within Britain...particularly when it creates a nice little get out clause for people to be abused within their own 'cult'ures...and that goes for abusing animals...time the barbaric slaughter called Halal/Kosher is recognised for the filthy crime of animal cruelty that it actually is...and the perpetrators prosecuted...fekin right man...dont give a shoite if you're jew or muslim or catholic...the laws should be devoid of religious interference...or woe betide us all...

15...Islam does not need anyone to 'stigmatise' it...it is doing a fine job of it all by itself...just like most doolally religions that MAN created are...

For Fecksake people will you wake up...give yourself a shake and stop believing in fairy stories????

PLEASE!

11..Evening Timothy Charles...
20

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06/07/2008 21:29:43
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06/07/2008 21:31:39
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Allan(handofgod137),

Valhalla 06/07/2008 23:39:37
#16 Sharia law does however state that they should kill anyone who wishes to leave the faith, and use force to convert non believers.
23

Cerberus,

Hades 07/07/2008 01:52:16
22

You write: "Sharia law does however state that they should kill anyone who wishes to leave the faith, and use force to convert non believers."

How can I put this? No it does not. That isnt true. What you wrote is false. You are incorrect in saying that. Not one single clause of your comment contains an element of veracity. You have written in error. Your comment contains a plethora of inexactitudes. The sentiments you have expressed in that comment are devoid of fact. You have erred in the side of error.

If you dont believe me then I suggest you spend a few hours reading about Sharia. I would also suggest that you spend some time thinking about how you came to believe in such patently obvious drivel.
24

Fanling,

Switzerland 07/07/2008 03:24:33
#23 Cerberus,Hades

Your Islamist slip is showing, as your classic Muslim anger reveals. Nobody indigenous to the UK, outside of the maddest of Islamists and the most idiotic of British judges and churchmen, will ever countenance Sharia in its midst.

If you want to embrace your precious Sharia then hotfoot it (with your sympathisers) to the eternally backwater lands of your fathers in the Middle East. For Christ's sake, leave Europe. Europe has no want or need of you. Not now. not ever.
25

Cerberus,

Hades 07/07/2008 03:46:58
24 Fanling

You write, "For Christ's sake,Europe has no want or need of you. Not now. not ever."

I do recall a certain Mr. Hitler saying something similar about another religious group.

You use the term "Christ" in conjunction with a fascist comment. I'm sure He wouldn't approve.
26

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07/07/2008 05:56:00
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billengland,

07/07/2008 10:17:23
Your comment has nothing to do with Judaism and everything to do with racism. You are a disgrace.
28

Cerberus,

Hades 07/07/2008 11:18:02
L-Y-N-N-E

I live in Europe. You don't. You live thousands of miles away from Europe while I live IN the place. No Muslim that I know thinks the way you seem to think they do. Only the under educated here think the way you think.

The man in the video, the man who you didnt bother to look into, is a COMEDIAN, LYNNE. He makes his living out of making such videos. He is an Atheist. He also does videos on Christianity and Judaism. Each is filled with historical inaccuracy and deliberately provocative statements. Its how he makes his living. Some people work hard for their bread while he simply spouts out atheist comments laced with a crazy view of history. You believe him, LYNNE, while I don't.

"He has taken a look around him, and doesn't like what he sees." He is an atheist LYNNE; super critical of ALL the religions he sees around him. He adds in bad history to make it seem credible but when you analyse it its nonsense. You didnt bother to analyse it. You simply believed it because you WANTED to believe it.

"You, on the other hand are determined to make it racist..this is his warning..not mine, HIS."

LYNNE, no. The very fact that you were so eager to show THIS SINGLE video of his (out of MANY) makes it a racist issue.If you had also linked to his highly critical videos on Christianity and Judaism that would have been fine. But YOU selected his anti Islam comedy routine while avoiding his comedy routines on other faiths. That was the racist part, LYNNE.

I am not a censor in any way. But I am more than happy to delve into racist and generally ignorant commentary so show it for what it is.

If you believe what an Atheist antagonistic comedian says about Islam I assume you will also believe what he says about Judaism. "Give Jerusalem back to the Arabs" and various bits on Zionism too trivial and historically ignorant to mention here.

Some of us are more reflective LYNNE. Some of us actually live in Europe. Some of us have some respect for the vario
29

Finnking,

Lempäälä 07/07/2008 11:46:18
Lynne

"The link was to show what is happening, and how we are pandering to the radical islamics, who cannot and will not assimilate to the societies of the the countries they choose to live in."

What a Nazi wrote a long time ago:

"The Jews complain about us? They should thank the democracies that put them in their admittedly unpleasant situation! Where are the democratic nations ready to receive them without condition?" Mungo, "Die Panic Party," in Die Marsbewohner sind da! Politische Satiren (Berlin: Carl Stephenson Verlag, 1939), pp. 50-62

Lynne, you would have been a great copy writer for Fritz Hippler in Germany in the 1930s. You don't even recognise the inherent fascism in your comments.You don't even see the similarity between what you write about Islam and what the lunatics of Nazi Germany (and earlier Russia) said about the people of your own religion.

While I can accept the idea that you quote from the Jewish Virtual Library at times, but is your argument so low, so vacuous, nowadays that you are sincerely quoting a 3rd rate comedian?!

Unreal.
30

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07/07/2008 16:30:36
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billengland,

07/07/2008 17:18:25
Lynne

You are a self admitted racist as a result of posting such filth.

Saying that you don't care who he is or what he is and then agreeing with his his views just makes you look even worse.
32

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07/07/2008 17:30:12
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Finnking,

Lempäälä 07/07/2008 17:31:22
30 Lynne

"This link was posted here before by someone else. I remembered it and reposted it. What is more, I don't care who he is, what he is,"

---so, you just post random links; without reason nor cause, aye? BS, Lynne.

"and YOU trying to make me a racist is what is defaming."

---Really? I can only imagine your violent reaction had I posted (at random) his routine on the Jews. Defamation? Not so, Lynne. Someone who makes the comments about Muslims that you make is racist. Happy to stand up in court and show your comments. Sue me.

"have read here for 2 years about all your hate for America, Jews, Israel and anyone who defends their stance against YOU."

---Show me one hateful comment about "America", "Jews", and "Israel" that I have made. You can't do it. Why not? Because I haven't made such comments. Why not? Because I do not feel hate towards these entities. So you have just defamed me. I can PROVE you are racist but you cannot show one single comment from me expressing hatred towards the entities you list. That's called lying, Lynne.

"What makes YOU think your ideas are the only ones right?"

---I don't. I also have no problems with racists. I just want them to admit it because it makes their arguments more sensible.If they simply admit that they don't like Muslims because they are different, I can deal with that. I fully disagree with them, but it's better out that in, I think.

"I happen to agree with this man about his views on pandering to radical islamists."

---Aye, I know that you fully agree with a comedian with zero knowledge/training of history and culture. He's a comedian, Lynne not a sage.

"Take a look around you"

--Lynne, this guy is from England. I have lived in England for almost 10 years and visit the place at least twice a year. I have many friends who live in England. Only people from the BNP (neo Nazi party) are saying the stuff that this guy says and that you agree with. I know many Muslims in England through
34

Finnking,

Lempäälä 07/07/2008 17:31:56
30 Lynne

..... I know many Muslims in England through work and family and there's not one of them who wants full Sharia or to alter the status quo. Not one, Lynne. Here in Finland I know many Muslims (two were in my sauna 2 nights ago---shock horror---the woman wouldn't go in with a man- just like most Finnish women will not). They do not want to alter any aspect of Finnish or EU law. Deal with this Lynne. I am infinitely more qualified to discuss EU attitudes to Muslims than you are.

"And I intend to make life easier for you...whatever comments I make on these posts will not be directed to you..don't answer them..I will not be answering you..."

---do as you please. However, I will attack your comments if I feel them to be racist. If you make a comment like, "and how we are pandering to the radical islamics, who cannot and will not assimilate to the societies of the the countries they choose to live in.", trust me, I will pounce on it and so will others.

Why?

Because it demonstrates a mindset that 40 million Europeans gave their lives to fight against. Because it sounds exactly like the sort of comment that was made against the Jewish people 80 years ago.
35

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07/07/2008 17:36:16
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07/07/2008 17:38:42
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07/07/2008 17:40:36
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07/07/2008 17:41:51
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Finnking,

Lempäälä 07/07/2008 17:58:57
Lynne

"Prove the man wrong"

--the principle of right and wrong (binary thinking) is not the issue, Lynne. The issue is to question if that film is racist or not. Better folk than I have ascertained that it is racist(City of Berkeley's Peace and Justice Commission). You agree with the film, therefore you have racist views, Lynne:

"Condell received criticism after links to his monologue, titled The Trouble With Islam were circulated to commissioners in the City of Berkeley's Peace and Justice Commission. Condell said in the video that he thought Islam was "a religion of war", that women who cover up their face on their own free will were "mentally ill", and that fundamentalist Muslims were "primitive pigs whose only achievement in life is to be born with a p*nis in one hand and a Qur'an in the other." Commissioner Elliot Cohen described Condell's comments as "insulting, degenerating and racist". WIKI

You agree with a man who says that "fundamentalist Muslims were "primitive pigs whose only achievement in life is to be born with a p*nis in one hand and a Qur'an in the other.""? You agree with a man who says, "women who cover up their face on their own free will were "mentally ill""? I know you do agree with him, Lynne.

He's an ignorant racist comedian who has been censured by the City of Berkeley's Peace and Justice Commission:

"Commissioner Elliot Cohen described Condell's comments as "insulting, degenerating and racist" WIKI.

Elliot Cohen is a Jewish neo con and he thinks the video is racist but you, Lynne, agree with the video.
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07/07/2008 18:01:47
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Finnking,

Lempäälä 07/07/2008 18:23:06
Lynne

Even Hitchens regards Daniel Pipes as someone who "confuses scholarship with propaganda". He's an American Lynne and founder of Campus Watch.

Last year I travelled around Denmark, talking with folk. Not one person I met talked in that way, Lynne. When was the last time you were in Denmark? There are always issues with an influx of refugees. If most of the refugees happen to be Muslims, then most of the aid money will go to Muslims. Perhaps if we didn't bomb Muslim countries these people would stay at home.

So, again, you chose to select text that meets you preconceived and inherently racist views. Again you chose to select a particular author who is a known racist because it fits with your racist views.

If you really believe that stuff, then please provide me with all the source material; the raw data; references, you note, that he doesn't provide.

You'll be quoting Hitler next, Lynne.

As to the views of Lars Hedegaard: He's a proponent of the concept of "Eurabia"; a concept that has been thoroughly critised and analysed:

"Justin Vaisse says the book intends to debunk "four myths of the alarmist school." Using Muslims in France as an example, he says:

* The Muslim population is not growing as fast as the scenario claims, since the fertility rate of immigrants declines
* Muslims are not a monolithic or cohesive group
* Muslims do seek to integrate politically and socially
* Despite their numbers, Muslims have little influence on foreign policy (e.g. policy toward Israel)"

and, more tellingly from your perspective, "Conservative essayist Andrew Sullivan has written that "the comical shrieking about “Eurabia” and such is but thinly veiled Islam-bashing by primitives in the U.S. know-nothing media.""

and, "Dagens Nyheter, journalist Andreas Malm claims that Mark Steyn advocates genocide and highlights the conspiratorical claims against Islam as a whole made by the Eurasia writers.[27]

In a follow-up article, jo
42

Finnking,

Lempäälä 07/07/2008 18:23:44
Lynne
.......

and, "Dagens Nyheter, journalist Andreas Malm claims that Mark Steyn advocates genocide and highlights the conspiratorical claims against Islam as a whole made by the Eurasia writers.[27]

In a follow-up article, journalist Eva Ekselius claims "Like the Jews were depicted as the foreign, the other, onto which one could project all the traits the culture wants to deny in themselves, so the 'muslims' now get to take over the second-hand props of anti-semitism" and makes a direct comparison to pre-war Europe"

---Do you see the point now, Lynne. It's fascism. And you agree with it.
43

Finnking,

Lempäälä 07/07/2008 18:36:47
40 Lynne

"I agree with the pandering"

So, you disagree with the rest of the film's content? Be specific, Lynne.

You said, "The link was to show what is happening, and how we are pandering to the radical islamics, who cannot and will not assimilate to the societies of the the countries they choose to live in.
Nothing more, nothing less. It isn't racist, wasn't meant to be racist.. all that pc is what is happening all over Europe."

"The link was to SHOW WHAT IS HAPPENING"- when it's not.
"AND how we are pandering..." (that's a logical 'and', Lynne)
"who cannot and will not assimilate to the societies of the the countries they choose to live in" (a line straight out of Mein Kamf)
"It isn't racist" (when it is evidently is)

There's 40 million Muslims in Europe, Lynne, with an overall population of 728 million (2005) or 500 million in EU countries. It is impossible for Islam to take over Europe within the next 1000 years. If the majority of Europeans become Muslims, then democracy will determine the nature of government at that time.

These are facts, Lynne. You of all folk on this site should know that the Fascists used the same scare stories and propaganda that you seen so willing to accept without critical thought.

What is it that you fear so much?
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07/07/2008 23:11:32
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07/07/2008 23:12:10
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08/07/2008 02:51:32
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08/07/2008 03:14:59
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08/07/2008 03:42:07
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billengland,

08/07/2008 08:55:25
Lynne

What is your purpose in publishing these writings?

You know very well that you can find similar passages in the books of other religions, and you are clearly attempting to demonise Islam in a most offensive manner.

You are a disgrace.
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08/07/2008 13:26:59
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08/07/2008 13:49:57
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billengland,

08/07/2008 14:55:41
Audrey #52

There are many similar passages. Here is a sample, which I am only posting in answer to your request. I disagree with all of them, as I disagree with the ones posted by your chum Lynne. I am not posting them to demonise Jews or Christians.

14 Old Testament Ways to Get a Wife

1. Find an attractive prisoner of war, bring her home, shave her head, trim her nails, and give her new clothes. Then she’s yours. - (Deuteronomy 21:11-13)
2. Find a prostitute and marry her. - (Hosea 1:1-3)
3. Find a man with seven daughters, and impress him by watering his flock.- Moses (Exodus 2:16-21)
4. Purchase a piece of property, and get a woman as part of the deal. - Boaz (Ruth 4:5-10)
5. Go to a party and hide. When the women come out to dance, grab one and carry her off to be your wife. - Benjaminites (Judges 21:19-25)
6. Have God create a wife for you while you sleep.-Adam (Genesis 2:19-24)
7. Agree to work seven years in exchange for a woman’s hand in marriage. Get tricked into marrying the wrong woman. Then work another seven years for the woman you wanted to marry in the first place. - Jacob (Genesis 29:15-30)
8. Cut 200 foreskins off of your future father-in-law’s enemies and get his daughter for a wife -David (I Samuel 18:27)
9. Even if no one is out there, just wander around a bit and you’ll definitely find someone. -Cain (Genesis 4:16-17)
10. Become the emperor of a huge nation and hold a beauty contest. - Xerxes or Ahasuerus (Esther 2:3-4)
11. When you see someone you like, go home and tell your parents, “I have seen a … woman; now get her for me.” If your parents question your decision, simply say, “Get her for me. She’s the one for me.” - Samson (Judges 14:1-3)
12. Kill any husband and take his wife. -David (2 Samuel 11)
13. Wait for your brother to die. Take his widow. -Onana and Boaz (Deuteronomy or Leviticus, example in Ruth)
14. Don’t be so picky. Make up for quality with quantity. - Solomon (1 King
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08/07/2008 15:56:38
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billengland,

08/07/2008 16:39:54
Thanks for your comments. Fyi I have never tried to demonise any religion, nor would I.
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09/07/2008 19:30:47
Comment Removed By Administrator
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57

Fanling,

Switzerland 10/07/2008 03:07:33
#25 Cerberus,Hades

Your recollection of "a certain Mr. Hitler saying something similar about another religious group" has nothing to do with this discussion. We are on a different level here entirely. Your selective "Mr Hitler" quote is a poor diversion, as any educated western person will recognise. Hitler, for your benefit, demonised a group of people that were neither antagonistic nor physically threatening to the indigenous population of Germany. Quite the opposite of today's scenario in a western Europe seriously threatened by aggressive, unforgiving Islam.

As for: 'You use the term "Christ" in conjunction with a fascist comment. I'm sure He wouldn't approve.' Well, there goes a certainty most of us thinking folks wouldn't have thought of. Please learn to read and comprehend before issuing stupid comments and accusations. The "fascist comment", so-called by you, is a convenient fabrication of your own retarded mindset. And the term "Christ" is an everyday retort/expletive in secular western society.

Get used to it, or better still, retire to the Middle Eastern backwaters (aka paradise) from which you and yours were sprung, then your Islamic sensibilities won't be irked so much. Until, that is, you gang up against the branch of Islam with which yours doesn't agree. Meantime, please leave us westerners to fester in our own filth. We can cope without the dead hand of Islam as we have done for centuries.

58

Mcsnagpile,

13/07/2008 10:49:45
The difference between Moslem and European values is merely a time slip.
Most countries in Europe had child brides as legal until comparatively recently. 12 and 13 years are still legal in some European countries. Marriage into chosen families was in the past widely practiced throughout Europe. In fact the royal family are good examples of state controlled marriages.
In the past the local squire had first marital rights. Some Moslem kings have similar rights.
Commonly, European women until comparatively recently, were wearing veils and dressing in black; it was a requirement at one time for all women to be veiled when entering a Catholic church, fort example the Spanish Mantilla. Western woman commonly wore veils in the 1950’s.
When it comes to women a lot of Victorian values could also apply to Islam.

 

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