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Russia ignores West with 'insignificant' progress on withdrawal from Georgia

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Published Date: 21 August 2008
RUSSIAN military lorries trickled back into Russia from Georgia yesterday, but no armoured vehicles or artillery were seen and there was no sign of the large-scale rapid pull-out demanded by the West.
The White House said that it had observed initial signs of Russia withdrawing some of its forces from Georgia, but Moscow needed to move faster. Germany, a key trading partner of Russia, described the situation in Georgia as "very unsatisfactory".

A reporter at Verkhny Zaramag, on the border between Russia and Georgia's breakaway province of South Ossetia, said the only heavy armour heading into Russia was a column of Georgian equipment seized by Russian forces.

He saw eight armoured personnel carriers, followed by three T-72 battle tanks. The tanks had markings on their turrets in Latin script. Russian armour has Cyrillic markings.

"(The withdrawal] is not significant," Gordon Johndroe, a White House spokesman said.

"Both the size and pace of the withdrawal needs to increase sooner rather than later. I don't think they need any more additional time."

Dmitry Medvedev, the Russian president, said that Russia would withdraw its forces from Georgia by tomorrow.

However, diplomats claim Russia appears to have secured its military objectives and is in no hurry to give ground.





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  • Last Updated: 20 August 2008 10:33 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
 
1

Mashimaro,

China 21/08/2008 01:32:53
You guys are so funny. Russia will do what Russia has to do to secure its borders.
2

mike - across the pond,

mashi 21/08/2008 01:40:19
hate to point out the error in your ways....

the Ossetian invasion by RUSSIA within the borders of GEORGIA means that RUSSIA IS NOT WITHIN ITS BORDERS.... THAT means RUSSIA is not "protecting its borders"... its invading GEORGIA....

LOOK at a map...

how would you feel if.... oh lets say India.... were to say.... China's actions in tibet constitute "ethnic clensing" and invaded tibet to protect the tibetans?

or are you going to draw some miniscule difference like oh I dont know.... Tibet isnt on the Black sea....
3

Postmark-55,

China, 21/08/2008 01:47:16
And the US and the UK are leaving Iraq at breakneck speed. Pot, kettle and black come to mind once again.


#2 mike - across the pond,
Russia is protecting Russians within the said region, as it has every right to do so. Georgia is in the wrong here, and the Russians don't want to lose anymore of their own.

4

Let's have the truth,

Queensland 21/08/2008 02:07:56
1. George Bush's first mistake was to order Russia out of Georgia.

2. His second mistake was to ignore the fact that Russia is protecting their own by entering S. Ossetia.

3. His third mistake was to assume the world and Russia has forgotten the circumstances behind the US invasion of Iraq.

4. His fourth mistake was to assume that he has any credibility left in the world.
5

Postmark-55,

China, 21/08/2008 02:45:01
#4 Let's have the truth,
It's good to see that you are still commenting, you have a clear and unbiased mind and aren't fooled by the glitter the Americans try to blind us with.

It seems to me that most people posting from Australia have much more common sense than their British and American counterparts, why is that?
6

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21/08/2008 03:35:13
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Postmark-55,

China, 21/08/2008 04:03:34
#6 Jack Murtha,
You're just upset because we don't do your laundry anymore, and we have more gold medals than you do, oh well, you'll get over it, until we kick your @ss again in London come 2012.
8

The Pict.,

21/08/2008 04:28:37
# 4 Says it all.
9

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21/08/2008 04:31:21
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21/08/2008 04:34:25
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21/08/2008 04:37:43
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21/08/2008 04:45:19
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Postmark-55,

China, 21/08/2008 04:48:16
Hey there Jack Murtha, next thing we know you'll be jealous of us because we can actually win without cheating, and gymnastics has always seen young girls participate, at that age they are still flexible enough to perform the moves that they do, every country has the young girls entered into gymnastics for that reason, yours included.

And wrong about NATO Jack, they are owned by the Americans, just like the UN. The CIA's tentacles reach globally, with NATO and the UN being no exception.

And you're becoming more and more racist with every laundry statement you make about us or the Koreans, but hey, that's your way, isn't it?
14

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21/08/2008 04:57:43
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21/08/2008 05:00:08
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Let's have the truth,

Queensland 21/08/2008 05:30:06
I would suggest that the reason the USA is performing more poorly than previous olympics is that drug testing has made great strides and many USA potential competitors were afraid to attend.

17

Mashimaro,

China 21/08/2008 05:34:42
#10 Just another American hater - and with good reason
18

Mashimaro,

China 21/08/2008 05:37:46
Look, Jack, the yanks and the israelis got together to open a nice little weapons platform in Georgia to launch an invasion on Iran. They got bitchslapped by the bear.
If nato wants to kiss their butts, let them.
The US has been writing checks it can't cash. Now the banker could come calling.
19

Postmark-55,

China, 21/08/2008 06:34:04
#14 Jack Murtha,
So Jack, could you provide for all to see the racist comments I've made about the West?
For one, the West doesn't consist of one race, it's the melting pot for all races, including mine.
And since I'm not one to shoot myself in the foot, I also am not one to make racist comments and statements.

And if telling the truth about the NATO members gets interpreted by you as insults, so be it.

What you don't seem to get though is that the wheels are wobbling pretty badly on the American Empire, and they're about to come off completely, and yes, deservingly so.

As far as an inferiority complex goes, since I'm not racist and not a bigot, we're all equal in my eyes, yes Jack, even you fall within that category.
20

Itchy,

21/08/2008 06:55:20
"18
Look, Jack, the yanks and the israelis got together to open a nice little weapons platform in Georgia to launch an invasion on Iran. They got bitchslapped by the bear.
If nato wants to kiss their butts, let them.
The US has been writing checks it can't cash"

The communist party line again. 'Mighty' Russia has a defence budget smaller than Britain. Who is writing checks they can't cash?

BTW why don't you tell us about the 'Great leap forward' and what happened?
21

Guga II,

Rockall 21/08/2008 08:20:21
#4 Stranger to the Truth.

"2. His second mistake was to ignore the fact that Russia is protecting their own by entering S. Ossetia."

I presume that you consider that Hitler was within his rights to annex the Sudetenland in order "to protect his own", then to go on and annex the rest of Czechoslovakia.

Thugs are thugs. Hitler was a thug, Stalin was a thug, Tsar Putin the Bootin is a KGB trained thug, Bush is a thug (albeit a mentally deficient one) and, of course, the Politburo of the Chinese gangster government are thugs. Maggie Broon is, of course, merely a puppet.


22

James Donald,

Newbridge 21/08/2008 08:53:05
#20 Itchy - "Mighty' Russia has a defence budget smaller than Britain" - Footage of the conflict in the Georgian territory of South Ossetia shows the Russians using "Cold War" era equipment which would be no match for modern Western equipment.
In order to be considered for NATO membership, Georgia should be "encouraged" to modernise its military (especially its Airforce and Air Defence) making Russian neo-Imperailism and "ethnic cleansing" by breakaway groups less of an attractive proposition.
23

Let's have the truth,

Queensland 21/08/2008 09:54:50
Gaga II

"I presume that you consider that Hitler was within his rights to annex the Sudetenland in order "to protect his own", then to go on and annex the rest of Czechoslovakia".

What a silly comment.

Do you believe the French were in their rights to invade Britain in 1066 or the Romans in 55BC?

Do you think NATO should freeze relations with France and Italy?

....These questions are as silly as your original comment.


24

John Lawson,

Toronto & Moscow 21/08/2008 10:21:28
There is a new regional order coming into play in the Caucasus and Russian Asia.

In the world of geopolitics we should look deeper into the Caucasus region conflict. We need to understand that there are common links between the Islamic people in the Caucasus and all the FSU republics which end in "stan." Not only do they have strong Islamic Sunni roots, their language root is "Farsi". Many still speak Farsi.

The “stan” nations have billions of cubic meters of natural gas reserves and over 200 billion in crude oil reserves. Over the past two years Russia's President and Prime Minister and Deputy PM Ivanov signed exclusive contracts with the 'stan' countries. These contracts give Gasprom the rights to sell and transport petroleum products. For instance Kazakhstan is sitting on 117 billion barrels of proven crude reserves on only its Caspian Sea sector.

In conclusion here is what I believe is happening in the Kremlin’s board room. The ethnic population in Abkhazia, Ostessia, Ingushetia, Chechnia, and Dagestan are all from the Persia area. Most of them are Sunni Muslims. These people have caused the Kremlin many conflicts over the past 200 years. The total Islamic population in Russia and in the "stan" nations is about 60 million.

It is not in Russia's interest for Iran, a Sunni republic to have nuclear influence in the region. Why? If the 'stan' countries see a strong Iran with capabilities to stand up against the Kremlin they would slowly shift their allegiance to Iran and work with Iran to transport and distribute their oil and gas products. Iran has access to the Caspian Sea and to the Indian Ocean.

Russia does not want to be the “bad guy” in the region. They are playing a dangerous game of Russian roulette with the Americans. They know that American is in a weak position, because of its ground war in Iraq. Yet the Americans have the capabilities to do a pre-emptive strike against Iran and destroy their nuclear ambitions.

If America destroys
25

John Lawson,

Moscow-Toronto 21/08/2008 10:22:23
If America destroys Iran's nuclear capabilities, it solves two problems for Russia.

1. It removes Iran as a regional player;
2. It gives Russia free hand to assert its authority on the Sunni-rooted regions of Russia and on the "stan" nations.
26

Neil,

Glasgow 21/08/2008 11:46:46
#2's example "how would you feel if.... oh lets say India.... were to say.... China's actions in tibet constitute "ethnic clensing" and invaded tibet to protect the tibetans?"

Obviously Mike, being from America, you are ignorant to what goes on in the rest of the world or you wouldn't use that example. This is precisely how Blangladesh came into existence when India liberated East Pakistan from a brutal Pakistani army.

"or are you going to draw some miniscule difference like oh I dont know.... " America wasn't helping the Pakistanis commit genocide.

You see I didn't even have to mention the genocide & war crimes NATO commited against Yugoslavia to prove whay ignorant lying genocide supporting hypocrits those attacking Russia are.
27

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21/08/2008 11:56:45
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21/08/2008 12:25:19
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Guga II,

Rockall 21/08/2008 12:29:40
#23 Stranger to the Truth.

Never mind trying to turn the question back to me. It was you who stated:

"2. His second mistake was to ignore the fact that Russia is protecting their own by entering S. Ossetia."

In other words, it is you who is condoning the illegal invasion of another country on the pretext of "protecting their own". Which is exactly what Hitler did when he annexed the Sudetenland.

As an apologist for your gangster government, we would expect no less of a crass statement from you.

30

Let's have the truth,

Queensland 21/08/2008 13:02:50
#29 Gaga

By your logic, Margaret Thatcher was no better than Hitler when she protected her own during the Falkland Islands war.

Not to mention Britain declaring war on Germany after the attack on Poland.

If you were attacked I'd be fairly confident that you'd like some help.

I certainly condone Russia for putting a halt to the genocide of the S. Ossetians.

Maybe you would like to inform me as to who is my gangster government and justify that accusation.
31

mike - across the pond,

LHTT... and the yellow quibblers 21/08/2008 14:40:10
russia is "protecting their own"...

"their own" have been part of GEORGIA for SEVENTEEN YEARS...

that argument makes NO sense...

the only "their own" they could be protecting would be "refugees" coming across the border.... and being that russia hasnt used the term "repatriation" I would guess that this is NOT the case....
32

Carolyn 1,

Boston, USA 21/08/2008 16:26:13
John Lawson,
I agree with you, but will add the failing of the US to foresee reality:

The Strategic Arms Reduction Treaty was 14 years ago. In that time the US greatly reduced its intercontinental nuclear capability to something near zero capacity. Russia? Reduced, but not to the extent the US.
As for the US nuclear warheads- NOT ONE exists today for short-range ballistic missiles, artillery and antisubmarine warfare. As for tactical warheads, the US has about 500 left.

As for Russia's build-down? Not so much. estimates are they have about 5,000 NUCLEAR warheads.

Russian bombers, which are nuclear capable, have been flying sallies along the Alaskan coast. Why?

Syria, likewise is very nuclear capable and recently flexing its abilities. Iran will soon have eberything Russia, Korea and Syria has, and probably Pakistan's too. Israel, if it survives, may not recover even if it does bomb Iran's facility as a deterrent.

The cold truth is this is evil of the worst kind. Attacks from Islamic radicals are now targeting even the humanitairian aid workers. That illustrates how horrific they are, and to the core. Another common target is schools- their motive is to prevent women from going to school- the goal is to keep them in fear, stupid, barefoot and pregnant.

Its common knowledge that The Islamic Religion of Peace collects a lot of tax from citizenry and business ventures, all that money being poured into weaponry to kill infidels.

All of this, the killing and the finacial aspects, isn't a US problem, this is a EU problem that must be confronted, now, not later, the alternative is to agree and bow to them in the very near future.

Because the Religion of Peace has spread root to Russia, Czar Putin will use that to his gain. United, there is now nuclear, financial and czarist power for The Religion of Peace to do as they please.


33

Neil,

Glasgow 21/08/2008 16:28:29
Mike 31 this time.

Once again, having been proven ignorant earlier in this thread you are wrong again. Ossetia & Abkhazia have not been part of an independent Georgia for even 17 days. They were opart of the Georgian administrative unit of the USSR but not of an independent state.

Not being both a hypocrit & a racist you will, of course, be able to point out exactly when you attacked the racist hypocrits running your country who decided to grab Kosovo on exactly the gounds you say "makes NO sense".

Lets, as you suggest, take all the Albaniams from Kosovo & dump them in New Jersey - it won't be much of a come down for them.
34

Eboneesha,

21/08/2008 17:08:02
My name be Eboneesha Li Herenandez, an African Hispanic Asiatic-American Girl who just got an award for being the bess speler in class. I got 67% on the speling test and 30 points being black, 5 points
for not bringin drugs into class, 5 points for not bringin guns into class, and 5 points for not gettin pregnut during the cemester. It be hard to beat a score of 120%. White dude who sit nex to me is McGee from Ocala He got a 94% on the test but no extra points on acount of he have the same skin color as the opressirs of 150 years ago. Granny ax me to thank all Dimocrafts and Liberuls for suportin Afermative action. You be showin da way to true eqwallity. I be gittin in medical skool n ex anmabe I be yo doctor when Barrac take over da healtcare in dis cuntry.
35

Eboneesha,

21/08/2008 17:18:52
#31 you be a opressir to cus you callin peole yelow quibblers
36

McGinty,

21/08/2008 17:50:54
#17 You've cried foul before about a comment I made, I'll admit, in anger regarding the Russian state. However I would advocate restraint as to 'hating' any people or peoples regarding race and would instead call for respect. Pots and kettles methinks, and as we know, comments of that nature don't particularly help, really shouldn't be posted on this site, and no doubt can be drawn to the attention of the moderator.

For all the West's crimes current and past of foreign policy, particularly those of Britain, there is at least a conscience and a collective acknowledgement of guilt and past crimes and a sizeable voice of protest. From China and Russia I hear few such voices, yet particularly in Russia's case, I hear justifications for past oppression of their own people and for current foreign policy. As we know the leaders are always to blame, whether it was Mao, Stalin, Kruschev, Thatcher, Blair, Bush and especially in this case Putin, Medvedev and Saakashvilli. I suggest we save our words to criticise them rather than to slur or to score dubious points against the people and each other.
37

Stefan,

NYC 21/08/2008 19:09:31
#36. Well said. Makes too much sense though. Sooooo... #17, I said NO starch and mind the french cuffs.
38

Jim A,

21/08/2008 19:32:19
If you stop and think about it the Russians have done the Georgians a pretty big favour. All that damage to both the civilian and Georgian military infrastructure is going to have to be rebuilt. Where does one think that money for new buildings and weapons technology is going to come from. If anything I see Georgia coming out of this a lot better off than they were before this conflict started.
39

Itchy,

21/08/2008 19:57:25
#38 there is no such thing as a free lunch and Georgia is a big loser in this affair.

It remains to be seen if the Russians are winners.
40

Jim A,

21/08/2008 20:09:35
#39 Itchy, I didn't say it would be free mate, there will be a price to pay but I still think they will come out of this a lot better off. Hey we'll see.
41

mike - across the pond,

neil.... 21/08/2008 21:25:14
racist? really what have I ever said or done that would lead you to say that?

as far as being ignorant... I cited a hypothetical example (tibet) and asked for someone to address it... in true sophomoric styling (look it up pal) instead of answering a hypothetical.... you started off on "bangladesh"... (what brilliant retard (clement attlee/mountbatten take your pick) decided to split "india" up that way anyway... it sure wasnt MY idea)

Kosovo
1) it happened on CLINTONS watch... if you are looking for me to stand up for that retard, you are looking at the wrong person...
2) wasnt Kosovo a UN/NATO operation... wouldnt that put YOUR fingerprints on that as well... and being that it is YOU who appears obsessed with it... guess that makes YOU the racist lol

back to the topic at hand... Soviet-Georgia
I've been looking (albeit not tirelessly) for what stroke of genius they used in breaking this ethnic group up... (north ossetia-south ossetia)

you are flat wrong saying that south ossetia was never part of georgia... in the 1990s it was placed under administrative control of georgia... without some SERIOUS mental gymnastics that makes it part of georgia...

the "break-away" "republic" of ossetia has been operating with ever increasing political autonomy with their neighbors to the north for the last 17 years...

this doesnt change the FACT that by any standards outside of russia... the LAND belongs to GEORGIA...

at some point the rest of the world needs to come to grips with whether to recognize these micro-ethnicities as countries....

but it is pure hypocracy to say ossetia/georgia is wrong but Russia/chechniya and China/tibet are ok....

which was my point initially
42

American,

21/08/2008 21:33:19
#27-hector-he's here because we all need a little humor once in awhile.
43

mike - across the pond,

postmark #3.... 21/08/2008 21:35:37
you justified russias actions by saying that they are protecting russians within the soveriegn nation of georgia...

ok... so if 10,000 californian hikers head to tibet, then the US can invade tibet to protect those hikers?

or shouldnt the california hikers just go home when they become pests to the "parent country"... regardless of how much they or the US government might believe in the "free tibet" theology....

btw... you can keep the 10,000 california hikers... most of em are pretty strange...
44

Vasya,

21/08/2008 22:20:16
Guys,
NATO is split. Germany, Italia and France do not want any sanctions against Russia.
Rice and Bush are in deep-deep sh/t. Their ruling is complete fiasco in all areas. Finally they wanted to use Georgia to attack Iram, because it is the only country in the region they could it from but their crazy pupet they grew up spoied even this. All air fields except one are destroyed by russians.
NATO needs Russia much more that Russia need NATO))) How do you think amunition goes to Afghanistan to NATO troops??? via unstable Pakistan balansing no the edge radical islamists ruling??? Via Iran??? Yes. they go via Russia otherwise this ammunition gets golden literally if to bring it by air. If Russia stops this loads stream vit it's territory the war with terror will be over in a year, I mean terror will win and the next fisco for the Bish's administration.
So all this "terrible" condemnations from NATO are pure propaganda for internal western use in other words bull excrements for brain washed rednecks that swallow those excrements asking for more.
45

Vasya,

21/08/2008 22:39:18
# 41 mike... Yours "wasnt Kosovo a UN/NATO operation... " is pathetic as you are))) Do not make things real if they are not real but you want them so))) NATO bombimg was nor approved by UN... Next time read more about subject you write about I know people like you are prone to drop some NATO's excremenets on UN but this is wrong do not you think? So your "this doesnt change the FACT that by any standards outside of russia... the LAND belongs to GEORGIA..." becomes again pathetic))) Kosovo belongs to Serbia, dude!!! That's what should be written on your forehead when write that S.Osetia belongs to Georgia. We say NATO but mean US who wanted to be good for their islamic friends for someone's else count just chosed Serbia as the sponsor) Europe got outbeak in drug-traffic from that and other problems US were happy))) So tell me who from Europian NATO members won from the Kosovo separation? US just again and again set up their sattelites "allies". Westen Europe are tired of it Eatern are not used to that yet but now after Georgian example they started understand who is who in this world.
46

Andrew BOD,

Aberdeen/shire 21/08/2008 23:01:32
44 Vasya

I see you're at your intellectual best again:

"So all this "terrible" condemnations from NATO are pure propaganda for internal western use in other words bull excrements for brain washed rednecks that swallow those excrements asking for more."

Continuing your same analogy, Bush will be in deeper sh!t then when he is removed from office at the end of the year. (I don't think they have a Prime Minister's vacancy he can slip into. That's democracy I guess.) And then you will possibly be faced with Obama. Now there's an interesting prospect. Someone who doesn't see the different components of the world as either good or evil. That might even be refreshing, especially after the partisan rhetoric of Bush and Putin.
47

Vasya,

21/08/2008 23:11:38
Andrew))) What is your point??? That Putin is prime-minister and Bush wont??? Indeed.
So I conclude that you agree NATO is split, that US neo-con's ruling is fiasco, that NATO needs Russia more than vice versa, that Saakashvili failing in Osetia spoiled US anti-iranian attack plans. Good! You are making great progress, Andrew! Thinking is a good thing. Using brain you can do much more than copy-paste.
48

Andrew BOD,

Aberdeen/shire 21/08/2008 23:29:42
What is my point? I take it you can read. Maybe you can't understand.

My point Vasya is that the world would be a better place without Bush and Putin. Fortunately, Bush will be gone. Putin will still have puppet Medvedev to control.

Let Iran continue it's nuclear programme. Let Islamic nations form their own ideology and make their own mistakes and not be force-fed democracy. Ask China to exert influence over the loose-cannon that is North Korea. Let former Soviet autonomous republics deal with matters within their own boundaries.

And tell me Vasya. What will happen to North and South Ossetia? Will they become one independent nation? Alania? Or will they be swallowed up into Mother Russia. And what of Abkhazia? The same? To become a holiday destination for Russia's rich and famous?
49

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22/08/2008 00:44:21
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Mashimaro,

China 22/08/2008 03:21:21
Here is a rational point for you, Scot.

The US effected one of their famous "regime changes" in Georgia and put a mentally unstable man in charge. Then they and Israel armed the country to the teeth - all the while getting it deep into debt to the US.
Russia is protecting its borders.
If the Russians did the same to oooh... say, Mexico... and then the Mexicans suddenly slaughtered a thousand or two Americans overnight, I would say Bush would be there so fast you'd see the skid marks from Texas.
51

Let's have the truth,

Queensland 22/08/2008 06:34:36
#50 Mashimaro

Your points in post #50 are too complicated for some of the posters here to understand. Would you post again but this time make it simple.
52

Mashimaro,

China 22/08/2008 14:32:18
Struth, the short term memory loss of the US astounds me
53

mike - across the pond,

mashi... 22/08/2008 14:45:56
1) georgia is a democracy... the US couldnt put "a man in charge"... that would be the georgain people... Russia doesnt LIKE who the Georgians elected, but that rates a big BOOO HOOOO for the russians...

2) israel and the US "armed them to the hilt"... that little comment has NO bearing on reality... had the US "armed them to the hilt" the russians would have had a MUCH harder time of their little soirre


THEN you said...
"If the Russians did the same to oooh... say, Mexico... and then the Mexicans suddenly slaughtered a thousand or two Americans overnight, I would say Bush would be there so fast you'd see the skid marks from Texas."

afraid your chinese geography lessons are a little "funny" at best...

in your scenario, Russia invades Mexico... and somebody (mexico?) kills 1000 americans? well if RUSSIA invaded Mexico, yah we'd probably be down there in a heartbeat... DEFENDING MEXICO's Sovereignty....

what I think you MEANT was if Mexico staged a military invasion of the US... and yes, we'd be right there enforcing our border...

a more APT analogy would be if the mexicans started killing US retirees in mexico... (there are quite a few US retirees living in mexico...) your question would then have some merit, would the US invade Mexico to "protect" US retirees??? the answer to that question is NO... we WOULD attempt to extracate our citizens, but we have no legal standing in Mexico...
54

mike - across the pond,

vasya 22/08/2008 15:09:36
Nato may indeed be split...

nato has been split for more than 40 years...
the french (from behind the safety of NATO troops throughout central europe) were much more "the appeasers" and withdrew from nato militarily in 1968...

Nato is a democratic body, each nation is free to support (or oppose) any action of the larger body.

many parts of NATO are russian appeasers, but the interesting thing about NATO is that many of NATO's member nations have recently elected "neo-con" representation... Ideological swings are the nature of smaller population democracies...

so yes, NATO is probably ideologically split... the QUESTION for you is, does that IDEOLOGICAL split mean that the "neo-cons" (both US and NATO) would allow you free reign in places like Lithuania, Ukraine, Georgia, Czech..., like they did 60 years ago?

I dont think so...

and Russia may have done themselves more harm than good with their actions in Georgia...

Georgia will undoubtedly be "fast tracked" into NATO, as will the Ukraine dispite all the objections the appeasers had 3 months ago...

What happens to the G7 (the G8 appears to have booted you)

oh and if you think that all this sabre rattling will get you a more compliant US president... think again, BO is WEAK from an international affairs point of view... you make the world look like a dangerous place and the US will lean even MORE heavily to the right...
55

Let's have the truth,

Queensland 23/08/2008 00:36:09
What is the benefit of being a member of NATO anyway?
56

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23/08/2008 01:56:52
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Let's have the truth,

Queensland 23/08/2008 03:36:46
#56

"You're not invited".

..Thank goodness for that.

 

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