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Relief for world money markets as US approves $700bn bail-out

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Published Date: 04 October 2008
THE massive United States banking bail-out that global markets have been desperately holding out for was finally passed last night.
The $700 billion (£380 billion) package was approved by 264 votes to 171 by the House of Representatives, at the second attempt.

An earlier version of the deal was rejected on Monday, triggering a massive slump on Wall Street that sent shockwaves around the world's financial markets.

The US Senate passed an amended bill on Wednesday that raised the government's guarantee on savings from $100,000 to $250,000.

It also included tax breaks to help small businesses and boost alternative energy, expanded the child tax credit and extended help to victims of recent hurricanes.

That was enough to win over the House of Representatives, and the bill was signed last night by George Bush, the US president.

It will allow the US Treasury to buy toxic debt from American banks, a move many believe is needed to head off the country's worst financial crisis since the Great Depression.

Before the vote had even taken place, the White House moved to dampen speculation that the bail-out deal would bring an immediate boost to the US economy.

A spokesman said: "This legislation is to fix a problem in our financial markets.

"It's not sold as giving a boost to the economy, but rather preventing a crisis in our economy. If it works as we hope it will, credit will be able to begin flowing again."

The decision is expected to bring relief to international money markets, which feared a deep slump in the US economy could drag the rest of the world into recession.

After the vote, Ben Bernanke, the chairman of the Federal Reserve, said the US central bank would do whatever it could to combat the credit crisis and help the economy.

"We will continue to use all of the powers at our disposal to mitigate credit market disruptions and to foster a strong, vibrant economy," he said.

He said the bill was a critical step towards stabilising financial markets and ensuring a freer flow of credit.

Henry Paulson, the US Treasury secretary, pledged speedy action to get the rescue programme up and running.

He said he already had staff working on it. "This was obviously a very important vote. It was a vote to protect the American people…and their jobs," he said. "There are a wide variety of tools that have come with this legislation, and which, combined with the other authorities we have, are going to be very important in protecting the stability of the financial markets, which ultimately protect the economic security of the American people."

Mr Bush, Mr Paulson, Nancy Pelosi, the Speaker of the House, and presidential candidates Barack Obama and John McCain had all backed the bill, warning its rejection would turn a crisis into a disaster.

Its rejection had been seen as unthinkable by many experts, and it would have represented a catastrophic failure of leadership at all levels of the US government.

However, some politicians had shied away from endorsing it, fearing for their jobs in next month's elections if they approved legislation that was so unpopular with some of the voters they represent.

Ms Pelosi, a Democrat, said the US had faced "terrible ramifications for everyone on main street" and that "the bright light of accountability" would protect the taxpayer. She went on:

"We were dealt a bad hand – we made the most of it."

James Clyburn, the Democrat majority whip, said: "We came together in a very strong, bipartisan way to deliver this decisive victory for the American people."

John Lewis, a Georgia Democrat, said: "I have decided that the cost of doing nothing is greater than the cost of doing something."

South Carolina Republican J Gresham Barrett, who opposed the bill on Monday, said: "There are still tough times out there. People are mad – I'm mad. We have to act. We have to act now."

It's not a quick fix, but market confidence will be restored

Is the crisis over?

No, but the move should restore confidence to the markets and boost liquidity as banks should be more likely to lend to each other now that the so-called toxic assets are being removed from their balance sheets.

How long before the scheme starts to improve things?

Nothing will change overnight. Stock markets are likely to receive a short-term boost, but this has been factored in.

The key issue relating to the scheme is what price the US government will pay for the assets. If it pays too much it will be strongly criticised, but if it pays too little the scheme will not have the desired effect. Pricing the assets is likely to take several weeks.

What impact will the scheme have on the UK?

Some UK banks, such as Barclays, Royal Bank of Scotland and HSBC, are likely to be able to take part in it. It has been estimated that UK banks hold around £95 billion of assets that will qualify for the scheme.

Will the Bank of England cut interest rates next week?

It is widely expected interest rates will be cut on Thursday for the first time since April.




The full article contains 881 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 03 October 2008 10:10 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
 
1

FTH22inarow,

04/10/2008 00:16:41
It should be the end of the free market as we know it, and the end of the USA as the worlds economic superpower, amazingly similar position as we were in in the 1930's
2

Scullion,

Canada 04/10/2008 01:29:04
#1, I agree that the market will no longer be as free as it once was but in the 30's the U.S.'s slavish adherence to the gold standard really pinned it down as to what the money market could do to react to a bad situation.
But this piece of unabashed nationalism should show that deregulation of the marketplace is a dangerous thing.
3

SouthernGent,

04/10/2008 01:32:17
There goes the new boat and kids college.
4

Mallory,

Edinburgh 04/10/2008 01:39:32
Any takers for when the next 'bail-out' will be required?
Nobody in their right mind thinks that this $850bn will be the last...
5

,

04/10/2008 01:58:33
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6

ScotLJM,

Michigan Lady 04/10/2008 02:05:24
#5...Stay away then!
7

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 04/10/2008 02:06:10


Question is!, Will this make any difference to our,.....

....'Money-in-our-Purse',?

I somehow doubt it!

Ridiculous 'Fuel Prices' and 'Food Prices' WILL Remain!, and The Poor will only get Poorer!
8

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

04/10/2008 02:09:23
Did not support the bailout but recognise that it was probbaly the only thing that was going to stabilise the markets.

Perhaps it just shows that the markets are as irrational as a teenager - we've given it what it wants - but will it be happy?

Time will tell.

At least there was some shift from the total sell-out offered on Monday but, sadly, it just does not go far enough.

The crazy thing is that the cheapest and best solution - guaranteeing sub-prime loans - was not even looked at. Instead we have a bill that rewards poor financial management as well as having the usual pork fat that many US bills have.
9

2dogs in D.C.,

04/10/2008 02:42:12
Southern Gent, just make do with the old boat,and be happy you've got one.My advice to all my friends here, is get a good cardboard box, and buy sturdy clothes.
10

W Smith,

Middle East 04/10/2008 03:59:12
Who will survive the financial meltdown?

"Among the survivors, of course, like cockroaches in a nuclear winter, will be many of Gordon Brown's 600,000 or more workers taken on to the public payroll over the past decade, along with their copper-bottomed pensions. A world inherited by diverstiy inspectors and wheely bin snoops. Dear God."

Comment in today's Times by Martin Waller.

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/columnists/article4878611.ece

Yep.

Our Gordon tried to replace 900,000 jobs lost in the UK's manufacturing industry, whose salaries were not paid by you the taxpayer, with 600,000 Public Sector employees.

Many of these new employees will ignore the financial crisis and fight for higher pay while many in the Private Sector lose their jobs.

Good plan Gordon.

11

SouthernGent,

04/10/2008 04:30:55
#9
I never said anything about already having a boat.
12

Dekester,

Canada's Westcoast 04/10/2008 04:33:25
They actually added nearly $150 billion to the bill. That is why it passed. I do not pretend to know much about Macro economics.

However living only a 3 min drive from the U.S border. We can really see and feel, the financial strain that a great deal of the U.S is under.

The American money lenders are quite brilliant though. Nearly half of the toxic debt is held by foreign nations, that thought the American system was a safe haven for their cash. It will be interesting to see just who is raking in the dough through all of this.

It is said that here is something like 2 trillion dollars of hedge fund money that has to make its way into the system shortly.

Interesting times..All the best.

13

Rob Bennett,

Point Piper Australia 04/10/2008 05:04:15
Does the US face Great Depression II?
"The past," once observed Pulitzer winning author Robert Penn Warren, "is always a rebuke to the present." And there are certainly clear parallels between the present crisis and events of eight decades ago. In both cases, the economic collapse came after a period of political dominance by the Republican party. The 1920s saw three successive Republican politicians elected to the White House: Warren G Harding, Calvin Coolidge and Herbert Hoover. These administrations shared a fervent commitment to laissez faire capitalism, encouraging growth through tax cuts, low interest rates and minimum business regulation. Coolidge encapsulated Republican faith in the free market economy in the aphoristic observation: "The business of America is business."
Similarly, the last three decades have been a period of renewed Republican party hegemony, interrupted only by the two terms that Bill Clinton served as President. Successive administrations have championed the growth of commerce unfettered by government regulation. Even Clinton, a political centrist who abandoned many of the progressive legacies of Democratic Presidents such as Roosevelt and Lyndon B Johnson, did little to control the excesses of Wall Street. See the complete article...
http://www.hindu.com/thehindu/holnus/006200810040383.htm
14

GalacticCannibal,

Murrieta CA for more WAR VOTE McCain 04/10/2008 05:04:27
5
ScuIlion,
Canada 0

Hey Dude,

U are beginning to sound worse than the fanatical polarized SNP dudes.

If U dislike my country that much why do U come here.

Suggest u Cultivate (grow) a few shrooms and cook yourself some omelettes.

Chill out dud.
GC
15

,

04/10/2008 05:09:48
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16

,

04/10/2008 05:11:26
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17

,

04/10/2008 05:14:58
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18

,

04/10/2008 05:25:00
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19

Pender Paul,

Pender Island 04/10/2008 05:48:11
The Federal Reserve is a private-public partnership where the commercial banks have tremendous say in setting the policies. The bail-out is simply a way for the people who created the problem to use taxpayer's money to attempt to solve the problem (or at least cover their backsides). Talk about irresponsible! And here I thought the 'invisible hand of the marketplace' would protect us all. Capitalism is basically a pyramid selling scheme, fundamentally dishonest to the core, and the rest of us who populate the G8 countries will be left holding the bag. Maybe, just maybe the Bolshies had it right, what with their 'line them up against the wall' philosophy.
20

Postmark-55,

China, 04/10/2008 05:51:38
#18 Rob Bennett,
Good detective work Rob, I guess the troll #5 'SCUILION' won't be too happy with your observation.
Some four months ago someone kept using my name and location as well but the location in bold print gave it away everytime.

Now to the article.
This BANDAID solution is just going to multiply the problems in the future and it won't be long before the wheels come off completely, but Bush and Company will be sitting high and dry on their little nesteggs and the rest will suffer.
What's amazing though is that America is still toying with putting in yet another Republican Administration, grant it, the Democrats really aren't that much better, but McCain and Palin? Get real.
21

Bishop Boyne,

Loanhead 04/10/2008 05:56:41
America is broke the dollar is set to plummet, the foreign banks have not disclosed the actual exposure they have, they either do not know, or it is to frightening to imagine.

Unfortunately the UK is in a worse state, if sovereignty was for sale, I am sure if it had not already been sold it would be now!
22

mk-ultra,

Edinburgh 04/10/2008 06:48:55
"In fact, some of the most basic details, including the $700 billion figure Treasury would use to buy up bad debt, are fuzzy."

"It's not based on any particular data point," a Treasury spokeswoman told Forbes.com Tuesday. "We just wanted to choose a really large number."

http://www.forbes.com/home/2008/09/23/bailout-paulson-congress-biz-beltway-cx_jz_bw_0923bailout.html


23

mk-ultra,

Edinburgh 04/10/2008 06:58:39
This is organised crime on a massive scale.
The Federal Reserve needs to be nationalised ASAP.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-515319560256183936&ei=sQXnSL7WH4vEiAL255ifCw&q=the+money+masters

24

GalacticCannibal,

Murrieta CA.. for more WAR VOTE McCain 04/10/2008 07:08:45
18
Rob Bennett,
Point Piper Australia

Wow dude,
U are one smart dude. to pick up on that.

I would never have seen that #5 is a fake.

I plan to visit again , the Land Down under for 2 months in Feb and Mar. 09.

Spending time in NSW and VIC. and then driving across to Perth in a 4x4.

The thing I really like about Australia is its vastness, and few people. And the Ozzies are very friendly.
The thing i don't like is the beer , its like p*ussy piddle , (weak as water).

Hope to find some wild shrooms on my trip.

Adios

GC

25

GalacticCannibal,

Murrieta CA.. for more WAR VOTE McCain 04/10/2008 07:20:15
Relief for world money markets as US approves $700bn bail-out
-----------------------------------------
That is one dumb headline.

The bailout is nothing more than a band aid . And will do nothing to relieve world markets .

Our leading states in the US, are in debt up to their eye balls. California and New York State. They are all seeking money from the Feds.

And our national debt has ballooned to $10,6 trillion since Bush took Office.

So far this year, we have lost 760,000 jobs . Like we used to create 2 million jobs every year.

The "live now Pay later" Balloon, is ready to burst or implode by leaking rapidly.

Barack Obama will be handed a financial and military quagmire , created on Bush's watch.

While Bush rides off into the TEXAS Sunset.

A shroom a day keeps the witch doctor away ..

GC
26

Postmark-55,

China, 04/10/2008 07:41:00
#25 GalacticCannibal,

"A shroom a day keeps the witch doctor away .."

The bigger question would be will it keep Palin away?

You guys are basically 'hooped' now aren't you?

And China will have its doors knocked down for more cash.

Thanks America and particular thanks to good old George W.
27

Itchy,

04/10/2008 08:33:38
#2 "2 Scullion,Canada 04/10/2008 01:29:04
#1, I agree that the market will no longer be as free as it once was but in the 30's the U.S.'s slavish adherence to the gold standard really pinned it down as to what the money market could do to react to a bad situation.
But this piece of unabashed nationalism should show that deregulation of the marketplace is a dangerous thing. "

Liar. The 1930s was when America came off the gold standard and FDR plunged America into inflation with an orgy of reckless spending.

And what does this measure have to do with deregulation of the market?

This is a Marxist bailout of failed businesses.

Your grasp of economics is zero, Scullion.
28

Itchy,

04/10/2008 08:38:24
#13 "These administrations shared a fervent commitment to laissez faire capitalism,"

An utter lie. The Federal reserve was created in 1913 and began a cheap money policy. That is what caused the boom and bust. Hoover skyrocketed taxes and was accused by FDR, ironically enough, of leading America down the road to socialism.

#19"Capitalism is basically a pyramid selling scheme, fundamentally dishonest to the core, and the rest of us who populate the G8 countries will be left holding the bag. Maybe, just maybe the Bolshies had it right, what with their 'line them up against the wall' philosophy"

Wrong! Interventionism is fundamentally dishonest to the core and Communism is even worse: look at Mao, Stalin, Pol Pot, Kim Il-Sung et al.
29

Itchy,

04/10/2008 08:39:39
#23 the Federal reserve is a nationalization of the money supply, as are all central banks. Get your facts right.
30

Unimpressed one,

04/10/2008 09:25:55
Anyone bid for the U.S. house on ebay going for $1.50? How the hell will they ship that to the successful bidder?
31

mk-ultra,

Edinburgh 04/10/2008 09:48:47
#29 Itchy

The US Federal Reserve is collection of private banks.
I think you're the one who needs to get your facts right.
32

Toast,

04/10/2008 10:12:41
This bill will take US debt to a mind bogoling $35,000 per household,our grandchildren will still be paying the bill,that also assumes that somebody can be found to buy all the US government bonds that will support this bailout,up until now the Chinese could be relied on to pony-up the cash but they have their own problems and are moving out of the dollar,this bailout is simply papering over the cracks
33

mk-ultra,

Edinburgh 04/10/2008 11:50:10
By the way, for anyone who wants to know more about the scam that is the Federal Reserve system, I highly recommend this excellent documentary.........

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1656880303867390173&ei=8EbnSN3RMYewiAKr3ey4Bg&q=america+freedom+to+fascism
34

A Friend of Fernando Poo,

04/10/2008 12:47:15
The press story is that this was a failure of free markets. The failure however centred on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, both quasi-government agencies. Implicit government backing for their loans made them reckless enough. Then from 2000 onwards, politicians pressured them to take on subprime loans to get people who couldn't afford it into housing.

Of course the bankers were stupid for not spotting the problems with these loans, and through trading they've infected the entire financial system.

Now we have a government "solution" which amounts to socialism for the rich. The problem was the credit bubble and the massive overborrowing it engendered.

The markets were effecting a solution by causing insolvent banks to go out of business. The politicians preventing this solution by saving them will simply drag this process out. Japan are still doing this and their troubles started in 1989. Do we really want twenty years of credit crisis here?
35

A Friend of Fernando Poo,

04/10/2008 12:52:05
#19: Agreed. A good first step to really fixing the problem would be to abolish the Federal Reserve.
36

Newman!,

04/10/2008 13:51:41
I think this bail-out will go down as the greatest bank heist in the history of the World.
37

,

04/10/2008 13:52:54
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38

Red Tower,

Dunoon 04/10/2008 13:53:29
I dont know if I should express my gratitude to the American taxpayer for bailing out the world economy or that I should tell him it serves you right for voting in the dunderhead that got the world into this financial mess in the first place.

George Bush's legacy surely must be that he could fool the majority of the American people virtually all of the time. They accepted for example that when he wore a flack jacket on board an aircraft carrier that he, a draft dodger,was an all American hero and that John Kerry, a proven American hero, was unpatriotic.

The big, big danger in this world is that a nation as polically naive as this should be the most powerful in the world.

And the American electorate could be about to do it again. To vote in McCain as president puts Palin a heartstroke away from putting her finger on the nuclear button!!!
39

Red_White_And_Blue,

United States 04/10/2008 14:01:08
We are devestated here. It is the end of our country as we know it, some say. To us, this is the birthing of a Socialist state rather than a Free Republic.

I don't know that this is true, I hope not. I only know our legislators have told us, they had no choice, or our country would face a meltdown.

I have tried to understand it all, I am no economist. I only know, the public backlash is monumental. And because it is an election year, and so much is on the line, you can't find any truly non-biased answers to all of this when you inquire. Republicans will blame Democrats, Democrats blame Republicans, and the third Independant party blames both, and promises a bright new day. But they are unable to deliver anything apart from further division and strife.

I came here this morning to this newspaper just to escape all the talk of it. It is all very sad. My ancestors fought in the American Revolution, and to think our Free Republic has faced undoing overnight by a vote is devestating. Many are so very angry. I have been too. But right now I am just sad. I needed a break from it this morning. So I was thinking, if I could go anywhere in the world today, where would I go? The answer was Scotland, from whence my ancestors came. And so, here am I. And here are the damn bailouts and the political prejudice from fellow Americans that accompanies the bailouts withersoever they may go.
40

Postmark-55,

China, 04/10/2008 14:21:04
#38 Red Tower,
You are sadly mistaken if you think that the American taxpayer has bailed out the world economy.
What has happened here is a short term stoppage of the bleeding but when it resumes it will gush forth and there will be no stopping it next time until the real blood flows, and flow it will.
The next time round it will become a war of bodies and not of money and it's only a matter of time.
America has become very vulnerable and vultures are standing by waiting for the kill.
Look at what's happening with Venezuela and Russia as we speak and many more alliances like that will pop up as America becomes weaker.
Like I've said many times on this forum, the wheels are wobbling and about to come off completely.
Add yet another Empire to the list of has beens, the time has come.
41

Red_White_And_Blue,

04/10/2008 14:25:54
Don't be so quick to bury us China. We may yet bury you.
42

mike - across the pond,

fernando's friend 04/10/2008 14:29:37
what this IS is a rejection by the free market of "great society" social engineering, it predates 2000.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Community_Reinvestment_Act

read it

banks are in the business of making a profit, if there is a "buck" to be made, they will serve the community... if it is too risky, they will NOT serve the community...

the SOCIAL ENGINEERING of the government stepping in and mandating banking practices the way they did, it only fuels the firestorm that we are in now...

another thing that fuels the firestorm is the reluctance of congress to "call a spade a spade" and ACKNOWLEDGE that some people are in homes THAT THEY CANNOT AFFORD... instead they call for "readjusting the PRINCIPLE of the loan".... WHAT kind of ludicrous garbage is THAT?

a good FIRST step would be throwing the BUMS in congress out.... starting over... 4 term limits in the house, 10 over your lifetime 2 terms in the senate, 4 over your lifetime...
43

Red Tower,

Dunoon 04/10/2008 14:31:00
#41

I'll bet you're a Palin supporter. A few jokes about bulldogs and lipstick and folk like you are hers.
44

mike - across the pond,

postmark and RW&B.... 04/10/2008 14:36:33
hey Red White & Blue....

remember Kruschev... "we will bury you"...

yeah who was it that was left standing?

lol

its SOCIALISM that has failed...
45

Paul S.,

Mauricetown, NJ 04/10/2008 14:40:04
An email, which I have not had the time to check for math, recently arrived. It simply said that if the $800,000,000,000 were divided by the number of taxpaying families (not businesses) in the USA, and then distributed to them as a one-time stimulus, each family would receive $248,000. It then suggested that the resulting spending by the families would alone get the economy going.

Well, I'm not sure what the actual result would be, but the very presence of this idea circulating widely via email reveals the level of anger in the general population over the "rescue"/"bailout".

What we need now is a steady hand on the tiller of the ship of state. Obama is one of the steadiest men I've ever seen in action. No matter his actual policies (they would have to be approved by the legislature to take effect), his very demeanor is that of a person who can take things as they come and deal with them thoughtfully and practically.

It is telling that when McCain showed up at the White House meeting, he arrived with his political advisor, while Obama arrived with his top economic advisor. The latter is the act of a real leader, the former that of a tool of others.
46

Itchy,

04/10/2008 14:50:55
#31 wrong. The Fed is a central bank created by the state in 1913.

Central banks are always created by the state.

So get your facts right.
47

mike - across the pond,

paul s 04/10/2008 14:55:46
you shouldnt bring a can of gas to put out the fire...

or a child rapist to an elementary school...

BO brought his economic advisor???

WOULD THAT BE FRANKLIN RAINES? or James A Johnson?

WHAT ON EARTH SHOULD THEY BE DOING THERE.... other than to be lead in in SHACKLES for a good butt kicking...

oh wait BO's campaign are far better politicians than to allow him to be seen in public with the very scoundrels who RAPED the american public this way... they'll keep THESE key financial advisors in the background while feeding you guys all the koolaid in the you can drink....

BO is more the sock puppet than the "steady hand" you claim...
48

Postmark-55,

China, 04/10/2008 15:02:37
#41 Red_White_And_Blue,
Yeah if you could bury us that's damn near a trillion dollars you don't have to pay back to us, not that you guys will ever pay anyways.
Besides, we're not here to bury you, you're doing a fine job all by yourselves.
Yeah, look up, they're circling and damn patient, it won't be long now and they know it.
49

SouthernGent,

04/10/2008 15:13:53
#38

I would suggest you do a little more reading on Fannie and Freddie if you think GW holds all the blame. The dems have dirty hands here too.
50

,

04/10/2008 15:23:49
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51

,

04/10/2008 16:11:15
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52

Bill S.,

Reality 04/10/2008 16:20:10
#25 Galactic Cannibal - Bush's watch??!! Are you completely ignorant of history? Now, don't get me wrong, Bush is certainly complicit, however for the last 95 years (That's when 8 men at the invitation of J.P. Morgan went to Savannah Ga and created the Federal Reserve)the U.S. has had nothing resembling a free market. And the U.S.Congress is responsible for our current mess! Congress forced banks to make loans that were ridiculous and the Fed kept interest rates artificially low compounding the problem. Then in an attempt to CYA they were packaged up and sold, then insured by other companies. In fact Goldman-Sachs wrote insureance for around $20bil of AIG's bad paper assets which is why AIG got their money - Paulson used to work for GS! This bailout will do nothing but further dilute the purchasing power of Americans. It is unconstitutional and any member of Congress that voted for it should be impeached. All this does is cement the state's control of our economy. Hmmm. A state controlled economy? We used to call that Fascism! And this has been welcomed by those businessmen who found themselves well connected. The U.S. auto industry was quietly given $25 bil. The decisions of Paulson cannot be reviewed! This was the worst of all options on the table. China has forbidden its banks from buying any of this paper. We'd all better learn to speak Cantonese!
53

Rob Bennett,

Point Piper Australia 04/10/2008 16:25:09
The US economy really is plummeting indeed.
A Chicago woman has bought a house on eBay with a bid of just US$1.75

Joanne Smith's bid was one of eight for the home in Saginaw, Illinois

I saw the house on TV, it looked a trifle run down but who cares. The land must be worth something as well.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=10535399
54

Scullion,

Canada 04/10/2008 16:30:13
#18, well done. I was wondering how this silly person was impersonating me.
#27, the U.S. was on the gold standard well into the 30's and made it more difficult to get out from the Crash. And remember, the great FDR wasn't president when the Depression started. Anyway, FDR is like Milton Friedman compared to GWB.
55

GalacticCannibal,

Murrieta CA for more WAR VOTE McCain 04/10/2008 16:30:42
37
Rob ßennett ,
Point Piper Australia
----------------------
Hey Dude ,
First how did these posters get to know that about U and Scullion.

Second why are U telling GC.

Dude I am a young 100% liberal, well educated, and I can think, and not allow my mind to be polarized like most of the the rabid fanatical GOP members here in the US.

I do not give a rat's ass what sexual preference a person embraces , enjoys etc...
That is their dam business and not mine.

I am a heterosexual male, and I had, friends in college and have outside college who are homosexual and bisexual and heterosexual . . That's their life style .

I am much more concerned about greedy corrupt politicians . and fanatical religious dudes.

That combination is the cause of most of the World's problems.
Not whether one is Hetero. Ho*mo . bi-sexual .

The moderator on this link will ban the disallow the word ho*mo in my post, but will allow the words kill and rape.......... DUHHhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Breakfast time here dude

GC
56

Rob Bennett,

Point Piper Australia 04/10/2008 16:35:04
#51 Postmark-55,China
"keep up the good and sound comments, enjoyed and appreciated"
Some of those comments get me into trouble sometimes. But that's the way I am. I can't help it. LOL
It must be that volatile Scottish/Australian combination.
57

,

04/10/2008 16:52:01
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58

GalacticCannibal,

Murrieta CA for more WAR VOTE McCain 04/10/2008 16:58:29
52
Bill S.,
Reality
--------------------------

Hey Dude , U sound like U have been around a while. I am, so to speak, a 2 yr old in Horse Racing language.

So without me spending time in research to respond to Ur comment . I will let it pass.

But the facts clearly show , that the since 2000 when Bush took office . Our country ,our military have gone to hell in a hand basket.

No matter what Obama does as the new Pres. It would be a 1 to 10 odds-on-chance, that Obama will make things worse, than they are for us here in America.
He will have to try hard to out do the evil Bush.

I am for the Bailout for any bail out , but not as it was passed here .

Any bailout must have mandatory conditions . Which makes that bailout a loan .
Monitoring and controls to be in place, and a time line pay back, with interest to the taxpayers who's money it is. Interest rate at inflation level, plus one point .

Unfortunately this $869 billion bail out has $196 billion in PORK, and worst than that, the US Treasury is not able to managed this bail out .

So they must hire so-called experts from guess where . The very companies Banks etc who were involved and contributed in this financial meltdown in the first place.

Politicians have no balls, and the very few who have, are soon dismissed and labeled as unpatriotic stupid etc..

Relax dude nothing is going to change, just business as usual . And I have NO sympathy for any one who buys a home they cannot afford to keep .

Many people do not consider the whole cost of owning a home when they buy it . Like property taxes , utilities cost repair and replacements .. etc.

Its morning here, just rained for the first time in about 3 months.
And a shroom omelet awaits me . Cooked by my new lovely new GF.

Adios
GC
GC
59

,

04/10/2008 17:20:27
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60

Wally,

By The Rivers Of Babylon (USA) 04/10/2008 17:55:26
here's what Ron Paul says about the bailout.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ItZh4SbyOvU

and here's some facts about the historical efforts by a clique of rich people to control the treasuries.

http://www.wakeupfromyourslumber.com/node/8464

61

Wally,

By The Rivers Of Babylon (USA) 04/10/2008 18:17:53
tell your congressman to support HR#2755. if they fail to do this, then vote them out.

http://www.americanfreepress.net/html/dismantle_federal_reserve_151.html

62

okanaganguy,

kelowna,b.c. canada 04/10/2008 18:38:55
The U.S. will overcome this debacle.They have in the past and will continue to do so.When the next President starts bringing the troops out of Iraq, which is now costing U.S. taxpayers $10 billion/month. The Iraqis have $80 billion in cash reserves from the sale of their oil.Let them use that to pay for training their troops etc.G.W.B. has done more harm to U.S./international relations in the past 8 years than any other person on the planet.Just think what the interest is on a national debt of at least $12 trillion.Hopefully, if Obama wins the election he can make the changes necessary to get the U.S. back on track.regards
63

SouthernGent,

04/10/2008 18:47:26
#64
Economics 101 will tell you that raising taxes will not get the US "back on track". Obama is part of the problem. Again, research Fannie and Freddie - then decide.
64

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04/10/2008 19:44:31
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,

04/10/2008 23:00:44
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canuckcraig,

Powell River 05/10/2008 02:34:07
I have seen nothing in the media to indicate that the CEO has been restricted in any way. Is he still going to command the same ridiculous salary and bonuses? After all he is ultimately responsible for the disaster, which to my mind was caused by greed and continual takeover of other financial institutions. Also, where were the auditors when all this was happening? Surely the books would have shown the pending disaster. It seems nowadays when things go wrong, no one is responsible.
Does no one in financial circles have any morals?
67

mike - across the pond,

rob.... 05/10/2008 02:37:16
1 saganaw MICHIGAN... not Illinois

2 saganaw MICHIGAN is a ROUGH town... a trifle run down? dude YOU are killin me... saganaw michigan was a GREAT place to live.... IN 1973...

it was a General Motors town... general motors left town... all the jobs left town... and now... not such a great town...
68

mike - across the pond,

okanagan klown... 05/10/2008 02:40:43
debt isnt 12 trillion... unless the idiots elect BO...

and exactly WHAT is the price you put on liberty and freedom?

heck even mashi and postmark arent pining for the "good old days" of Mao and their gang...
69

mike - across the pond,

cannuck craig.... 05/10/2008 02:46:20
read my friend

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Community_Reinvestment_Act

think about what it means when they MANDATE that banks lend into "underserved" communities...

this is the CHARTER that created Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac... and it doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure out that when you START OUT with that course, you end up where we are...

its not free market capitalism.... its SOCIALISM and we ALL (US and abroad) SHOULD be mad as hell...

and wally.... you want to go off on a conspiracy theory.... THERE is your conspiracy theory...
70

Wally,

By The Rivers of Babylon (USA) 05/10/2008 16:13:33
Mike, isn't it a conspiracy that the government is going to take the taxpayer's money and give it to companies in the People's Republic Of Wall Street? You should be opposing that conspiracy.

71

mike - across the pond,

wally.... 05/10/2008 16:33:45
where did it start? what are the roots?

we are in this mess because of LBJ's "great society"... the democrats... and carter

the GOP is not "lilly white" in all this?

however, consider what will happen if the DNC gains the white house... do you REALLY think that the democrats will show fiscal restraint if they control both the white house AND congress?

need I remind you that the LAST 4 times the same party has controlled BOTH the white house AND the congress by the ends of these administrations, the US economy has been in a recession...

what happens to our taxes?
what happens to jobs?

do you honestly expect our fellow voters to thow the bums out?
72

Wally,

By The Rivers of Babylon (USA) 05/10/2008 16:52:57
Mike, it started with the 1913 law enabling the federal reserve to manage our money supply. they've failed miserably at this task. we need to fire them and take away all of their powers in the banking community. unfortunately, the only national leader saying this is ron Paul. and you know Ron Paul is not a real person because the media says so.

for your own sanity Mike, you should realize that our country is ruled by criminals. and there's not much real difference between republicans & democrats.

what we saw last week is both parties participating in a conspiracy to take money from the people and give it to powerful rich people who rule us.
73

SouthernGent,

05/10/2008 18:56:12
#74
You point out a very significant problem with todays society. A large portion of democrats don't understand the ramifications of their votes. They see the redistribution of wealth as a plus because it benefits them in the short term. But they don't put 2 + 2 together when they vote for higher taxes which lead to job loss (theirs) and inflation. Corporations don't pay taxes and these voters don't realize that they are the ones that lose with higher corporate taxes. They cut off their nose to spite their face and don't even know they are doing it.
74

Wally,

By The Rivers Of babylon (USA) 05/10/2008 20:37:04
southerngent in 76:

I remind you that the level of taxation on the big corporations in our country has declined dramatically since 2000. Prior to 2000 and going back to 1960 at least the federal government always got 10-12% of its total revenue from the corporate income tax. today the federal government gets 5-6% of its total revenue comes from the corporate income tax. the tax laws have been changed to basically lower taxes on corporations. and from the 1960-2000 period we had on average a much lower level of unemployment than today and also had a lot more opportunity and prosperity than we have today. given that government is deep in debt and makes massive interest payments each year on this debt (over $400 billion a year), it was stupid for government to cut taxes for the corporations like that. The profits of corporations have generally increased rapidly since 2000. so the decision to cut their taxes only increased the debt. you should agree with the principal that debt is a bad thing.

also, you criticize democrats for wanting to redistribute wealth. but last week we saw both democrats and republicans join together to redistribute income massively by agreeing to bail out rich wall street companies with taxpayer money.

consider the social security situation. People are forced to contribute through the payroll tax. and then the money is taken and spent on the wars and on this wall street bailout now. 40% of the money paid through the payroll tax is diverted from social security/medicare and spent elsewhere. that is a redistribution of income. this is something that both parties do. and it is not done for the benefit of the poor. These big corporations that get the no-bid contracts in Iraq/afghanistan are not poor people, they are rich people.

Increasingly that is the way it is in Amerika. the government is a tyrant that takes from our people and gives it to their rich benefactors. we're like surfs, they're the landlords, they can take
75

SouthernGent,

05/10/2008 21:11:11
Wally, Wally, Wally....

There is no such thing as "corporate taxes". Once again, corporate taxes are an expense on the books. Corporations offset expenses in several ways, but most notably by cutting other expenses (payroll - JOBS) or by raising prices (higher cost for the product paid by the consumer). When coporations don't make as much money as we NEED them to, the stock price also goes down, resulting in lost money for stockholders (that would be many pension plans, 401k's, etc - held by many ordinary individuals). Retirement suffers.

Corporations don't suffer, individuals do. And if you think they start cutting jobs from the top down, you are fooling yourself.

So by voting for higher corporate "taxes", people are voting for job cuts, higher prices for goods/services, and less money for retirement. Sure, Uncle sugar gets money to redistribute, but he gets it from the very same voters that think they are sticking it to the corporations. How ironic.
76

Taz,

The Land of the Free. 07/10/2008 22:20:43
The United States sneezes and the rest of the world catches pneumonia. If we can come out of a sever depression and finance a world war we can kick this in the butt without much problem. Us Texans never had it so good as this past year. The money is rolling in for anyone that is on the ball. This is a time of opportunity for those with the courage.

 

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