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Now US campaign turns really dirty – as McCain brands Obama socialist



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Published Date: 27 October 2008
THE war of words between US presidential candidates John McCain and Barack Obama for the votes of plumbers and other average Joes is a reminder of the nation's long-standing doubts about concentrated wealth – and its qualms about doing something about it.
Americans have long voiced concerns about putting too much wealth in too few hands, but the public's views also come with contradictions – there is concern also about the role of government and the individual.

"I think that when you spread the we
alth around, it's good for everybody," Mr Obama told Ohio voter Joe Wurzelbacher – aka "Joe the Plumber".

The remark may have sounded pretty innocuous. But Mr McCain has lambasted his rival's words as sounding "a lot like socialism", and turned the criticism into a central theme of his campaign's final round. Mr Obama's remarks, Mr McCain says, are emblematic of a tax plan to confiscate wealth and give it to the poor that would make the IRS – America's tax service – "into a giant welfare agency".

A substantial majority of Americans say the rich don't pay their fair share of taxes, opinion polls show. A growing number say the US is becoming a nation of haves and have-nots.

The top one-tenth of US households now earn an average of 11.2 times what those in the bottom tenth make, according to the Census Bureau, up from a ratio of 8.7 three decades ago.

The wealthiest one-fifth of US households now take in 50 per cent of all income, up from 44 per cent in 1977 and the differences are even more pronounced in analyses of incomes for the top 1 per cent of households.

But Americans are divided on whether government should be heavily taxing the rich in order to benefit those with less.

In a poll in April, 51 per cent said they support "heavy taxes" on the rich to redistribute wealth. That is significantly higher than when the same question was asked in 1939, at the tail end of the Great Depression, when 35 per cent agreed. But support for higher taxes on the wealthy is tempered by individuals' aspirations.

Dennis Jacobe, chief economist for polling group Gallup, said: "Most Americans hope to some day be wealthy and, as a result, the idea of kind of redistributing income is not as popular as (government policies resulting in] making a bigger pie so everybody does better."

The tension between those ideas runs through American politics in ways that do not always seem logical – even many wealthy people support higher taxes on the rich.

In a country that believes in itself as a place where anybody who works hard enough can make it, though, there is a certain wariness of taxes that might discourage hard work.





The full article contains 473 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 26 October 2008 9:20 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: US elections
 
1

j.vanhallenbeck,

27/10/2008 00:03:20
He IS a socialist.
No news there
2

Let's have the truth,

Queensland 27/10/2008 00:08:14
A socialist is better than an ageing, war mongering candidate with no financial nous and the judgement of a five-year old.
3

Finlang,

Switzerland 27/10/2008 00:19:29
Being branded a socialist in the US is tantamount to being told you are a plotter against the state. The slimy Blair/Brown gang of the last 11 years in the UK would have even more difficulty than Obama in coming to terms with that label.
4

Scullion,

Canada 27/10/2008 00:35:45
Am I missing something here? Did the U.S. government not buy the majority of the largest insurer in the world? Did it not just underwrite its private financial markets to the tune of $700B? This old fool McCain is becoming senile. America is a socialist state and a Republican president begged for it.
5

,

27/10/2008 00:36:08
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6

,

27/10/2008 00:38:12
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7

Let's have the truth,

Queensland 27/10/2008 00:48:37
#5

"You are really full of hate"

Tell that to Karl Rove. You know, that guy mostly responsible for getting the current failed (abysmally) administration into the whitehouse.

8

,

27/10/2008 00:55:08
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9

Scullion,

Canada 27/10/2008 01:17:23
#4, hint, don't believe all that you read.My wife and children would be a tad surprised if I were gay. However, if I were, I'd certainly be militant.
Not all Republicans are dimwits but most dimwits vote Republican-and I believe you prove my point perfectly.
10

Rosie's Opinion,

USA 27/10/2008 01:18:14
Suppose that every day, ten men go out for beer and the bill for all ten comes to $100. If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this:

The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.
The fifth would pay $1.
The sixth would pay $3.
The seventh would pay $7.
The eighth would pay $12.
The ninth would pay $18.
The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59.

So, that's what they decided to do. The ten men drank in the bar every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement, until one day, the owner threw them a curve. “Since you are all such good customers,” he said, “I'm going to reduce the cost of your daily beer by $20.” Drinks for the ten now cost just $80.

The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes, so the first four men were unaffected. They would still drink for free. But what about the other six men – the paying customers? How could they divide the $20 windfall so that everyone would get his 'fair share?' They realized that $20 divided by six is $3.33. But if they subtracted that from everybody's share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would each end up being paid to drink his beer. So, the bar owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man's bill by roughly the same amount, and he proceeded to work out the amounts each should pay.

And so:

The fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% savings).
The sixth now paid $2 instead of $3 (33%savings).
The seventh now paid $5 instead of $7 (28%savings).
The eighth now paid $9 instead of $12 (25% savings).
The ninth now paid $14 instead of $18 (22% savings).
The tenth now paid $49 instead of $59 (16% savings).

Each of the six was better off than before. And the first four continued to drink for free. But once outside the restaurant the men began to compare their savings.

“I only got a dollar out of the $20,” declared the sixth man. He pointed to the tenth man, “but he got $10!”
11

Rosie's Opinion,

USA 27/10/2008 01:18:37
“Yeah, that's right,” exclaimed the fifth man, “I only saved a dollar, too. It's unfair that he got ten times more than I!” “That's true!” shouted the seventh man, “'Why should he get $10 back when I got only two? The wealthy get all the breaks!” “Wait a minute,” yelled the first four men in unison, “We didn't get anything at all. The system exploits the poor!” The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.

The next night the tenth man didn't show up for drinks, so the nine sat down and had beers without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important. They didn't have enough money between all of them for even half of the bill!

And that, boys and girls, journalists and college professors, is how our tax system works. The people who pay the highest taxes get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up anymore. In fact, they might start drinking overseas where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier.

David R. Kamerschen, Ph.D.
Professor of Economics, University of Georgia

For those who understand, no explanation is needed.

For those who do not understand, no explanation is possible.

12

,

27/10/2008 01:38:58
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13

D. Feste - Illyria, OH,

27/10/2008 01:49:14
As we all know, the USA has had many "socialist" programs in place for decades. It's part of what permits us to travel on paved roads, drive across bridges, visit a national park, get paid a living wage, get unemployment when necessary, send our kids to school, collect social security and Medicare when of age and countless other programs that are simply part of our normal USA standard of living. . . .
that we completely forget about.

We all contribute to these things by means of taxes and receive whatever our politicians are successful in fighting for.

The "progressive / graduated" tax plan of 1913 taxes higher incomes at a higher rate than lower incomes.
A truly classic "socialist" system which we have at the present day. "Spreading the wealth around?"
ABSOLUTELY !

The US government is in the BUSINESS of "spreading the wealth around."

Funds are then distributed to public works, social security, Medicare, municipalities, disaster relief. educational insitutions, farmers, widows, bank bailouts, corporate bailouts. . . . the people's money collected and distributed according to government decision.

This is all OLD news. VERY old news !

This secret is. . . you can't acutually SAY the word "SOCIALISM," in this country, but you can certainly have it very much in place ! The word itself is too super-charged to say out loud, unless used to condemn an opponent of something WE ALREADY HAVE !

Some day we'll grow up to the fact that systems grow and change with evolving economic and political conditions - if our leaders grow the balls to tell us the truth.

14

Let's have the truth,

Queensland 27/10/2008 02:07:44
Who was that guy again, the CEO of Lehman Bros who walked away with $400,000,000 for doing a great job and contributing to the present meltdown?
15

Let's have the truth,

Queensland 27/10/2008 02:09:14
Who was that guy again, the CEO of Lehman Bros who walked away with $400,000,000 for doing a great job and contributing to the present meltdown?
16

Wally,

By The Rivers Of Babylon (USA) 27/10/2008 03:54:54
Obama had a massive rally in Denver. he was chanting en espanol with them.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=anS1wSdculJ0&refer=home

Obama drew 100,000 at that Denver rally.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/26/obama-draws-100000-at-den_n_137951.html

it is very impressive for him to get 100,000 at Denver and at St. Louis as previously occurred. because these are 2 predominantly republican states. populations in both denver metro area & st. louis are about 2,000,000. to get 5% at a rally is a big deal. both have rural areas surrounding.
17

Let's have the truth,

Queensland 27/10/2008 04:24:47
McCain "Guarantees" victory in election.

http://www.radioaustralia.net.au/news/stories/200810/s2402033.htm?tab=latest

He's finally lost it altogether.
18

Let's have the truth,

27/10/2008 04:33:07
#17

Maybe they've captured an Osama bin Laden lookalike and will announce it 2 days before the election.
19

Wally,

by the rivers of babylon (USA) 27/10/2008 04:34:34
lhtt in #15:

its been proven already that not only is all the $700 billion congress approved going to be spent by the time obama becomes president, but even 100's of billions more than that will have already been spent bailing out wall street & big banks.

one paper calculated 10% of the total would go to executive bonuses. the germans are limiting executive pay for any company getting a bailout to under $700,000 a year. the americans are allowing anything.

not only that one bank that received a bailout used the money to buy another bank and now they're seeking a bailout for the bank they bought.

this guy paulson used to work for one of the biggest recipients and he's in charge of giving the money away. its the biggest thievery in world history to make lower income & middle income & rich people all 3 to pay taxes for these particular few rich people getting bailed out.
20

CASEY PURVIS,

WEST HILLS 27/10/2008 04:46:29
#2 WHERE IS QUEENSLAND?
CASEY PURVIS
DON'T EXPECT YOU TO SHOW UP ANY TIME SOON
21

Let's have the truth,

Queensland 27/10/2008 04:51:31
#20

Are you another American who hasn't got a clue where anywhere else is?
22

GalacticCannibal,

Murrieta CA for more WAR VOTE geriatric McCain 27/10/2008 05:16:46

Pres Obama's single biggest problem will be . Trying to counter the incessant attacks from the FP GOP supporters when he is the President.

Just watch the GOP attack him 7/24 until Nov 4, 2012.

So its very important for the Democrats to get a land slide on Nov 4 and to have enough seats to overcome filibusters by the GOP.

Relax ..OBAMA WINS

McCain retreats into the Washington corruption.

Bets of all the evil will begone from the WH.

GC
-------------------------------------------------

21
Let's have the truth,
Queensland

Dude , we don't need to know where anything else is . We have America .

WE have low cost food gas, housing , transport , clothes , sports , vast national Parks etc etc and millions of guns . Guns everywhere

Like in Chicago so far this year 2008
436 people have been murdered in that City.

Relax dude.Its the American Dream (part of it)

GC
23

Let's have the truth,

Queensland 27/10/2008 05:55:10
#22 GalacticCannonball

"Dude , we don't need to know where anything else is . We have America."

So you prefer to remain ignorant as to which countries you lend you money?

Maybe you never intend to pay it back. You sound like one of those sub-prime borrowers.
24

Let's have the truth,

27/10/2008 05:58:22
#23

Should read "lend you money"
25

eric,

27/10/2008 07:33:20
Bush is being dumped by lots of his loyal support.Even his christian buddys are sickened by the way he uses the faith to gain support,Bush and brown 2 planks of wood.America has got the runs and brown is chasing him with the bog roll.
26

Globetrotter_scot,

27/10/2008 08:02:53
Is it not relevant to this article that an order has most likely been given to commit an act of war against Syria to deliberately change the outcome of the US elections? Funny we can’t comment on the original.

Come on people! If true, US commandos have massacred 8 civilians which is an *act of war*. A well planned order must have come from higher up the echelons of the US military. Why would they have sent such an order so close to an election if not to affect it?

Pfft… and the US is supposed to be a democracy.

Syria will probably not react, but consider the hypocrisy if the roles were reversed. Imagine if Syria or Pakistan killed 8 US civilians while hunting militants. Imagine if Iran went into Iraq and killed 8 US troops to change the outcome of their election.

Now the US campaign turns REALLY dirty.
27

Mikey,

27/10/2008 08:54:49
#26, the US never has been a democracy. Democracy assumes plurality, which the US, with its two party system, does not possess.

Anyway, any student of the US political scene (who is not a raving rightist)will tell you that the US is a republic and not a democracy.

The ruling classes and industrialists like to preserve the sham of democracy as how can they justify killing myriads of darker skinned people?

The US is just like the former Soviet Union. Power is confined to a few people and the normal, working man must make do with what crumbs can be had from the oligarchs table.

If you don't believe me, just try and organise a party in, say, Ohio, that uses the money made in Ohio to prove that Ohio would be better off OUTSIDE the USA!
28

Boy Wonder,

27/10/2008 09:04:17
In America, being called a Socialist is tantamount to being called a Communist or a Traitor!!
29

Silence of the Yams,

Why Obama can't be trusted... 27/10/2008 09:54:22
*Obama stated that, although he attended the Rev. Wright's church for 20 years, although Rev. Wright officiated at Obama's wedding and baptised Obama's children, although Rev. Wright's sermons were sold as videos in the lobby of the church, he was completely and utterly unaware that the good Rev. was actually an American-hating, racist whose sermons incited racial and anti-American fervor in his church. ("God DAMN America!!!")

*Although one of Obama's first fundraisers was held in the house of William Ayers, although Ayers and Obama both sat on the 9 member board of a radical education group together for 3 years, although Obama wrote a positive blurb for Ayers' book (in which he details his group's terrorist actions), although Ayers and Obama appeared together on two educaional panels (in 1997 and 2001), although Obama's own campaign has said that Ayers and Obama are "friendly", Obama claims that Ayers, a former member of the domestic terrorist group the Weathermen (whose wife was once on the FBI's ten most wanted list), is just someone "who lives in the neighborhood".

*Obama's relationship with convicted felon and slumlord Tony Rezko also goes way back. The law firm Obama worked for helped Rezko get $43 million in gov. funds. The day Obama's campaign began for state legislature he received TWO checks from Rezko owned businiesses, when campaigning for the US Senate, Rezko held a fundraiser for Obama at his house. Rezko helped Obama purchase his house by buying the vacant lot next to it and then "reselling" it to Obama at a HUGE discount. However, Obama described Rezko as "a supporter of mine since my first race for state Senate" and a friend with whom he occasionally had lunch or dinner.

*On June 19, 2008, the Obama campaign announced that they would reject public financing. Prior to this Obama had said his campaign would accept public financing: "Senator John McCain has already pledged to accept this fundraising pledge. If I am the Democratic nominee, I
30

Vincent-W,

27/10/2008 10:22:30
I saw the last TV debate between Obamma and McCain. I was gobsmacked by the anodyne nature of the discussion and the lack of any depth in the answers.

Does this reflect on the electorate's inability to understand even simple issues or does it reflect on the candidates superficiality or is there another reason?

These guys would have been pulled to by the interviewers, media and the public in this country.
31

,

27/10/2008 10:44:27
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32

,

27/10/2008 14:08:17
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33

D. Feste - Illyria, OH,

27/10/2008 14:09:38
Vincent -

"Does this reflect on the electorate's inability to understand even simple issues . . . . .?"

A resounding "YUP !"

Read the posts on this board for a few days and you will see many chilling examples of simple-minded
attempts at the thought process fed by fear, guilt,
marginal education and racial hatred.

This is exactly WHY we have an electoral college that actually determines the final voting results, not the popular vote.

34

Carolyn 1,

27/10/2008 14:16:20
@ 26 Globetrotter_scot,

As for foreign policy, it was Obama who said he would encourage raids into Pakistan to capture a target, especially OBL.

McCain said he would NOT enter another country in such an event, without that country's approval.

It's been said in debates twice.

Also, it appears the Syria attack was done to capture/kill the AQ second in command.
Considering that Israel and Syria were in 'peace negotiations', the raid into Syria is probably not worth the diplomatic price,
-but then it may never be known that maybe the Iraqi had permission from Syria to rid Syria of the AQ#2
35

,

27/10/2008 14:31:14
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36

,

27/10/2008 14:32:37
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37

,

27/10/2008 14:35:24
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38

D. Feste - Illyria, OH,

27/10/2008 14:37:08

#36-Draupnir

You just HAD to bring THAT up, didn't you ? :)

Watch where that topic goes . . . .
39

Lynne,

Palm Beach Gardens 27/10/2008 14:48:52
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iivL4c_3pck&feature=bz301

In Obama's own words about the redistribution of wealth
40

Vincent-W,

27/10/2008 14:52:28
D. Feste,

Thank you, I was really shocked by the lack of depth in the discussion. I cannot believe that McCain and Obama are dim. No-one rises to their position without ability. So I was left thinking that the whole event was a carefully choreographed event to swing voters, using sweeping generalities.

I also cannot believe that the whole of the electorate are so ill informed as to take this sugary garbage in.

Both candidates seemed poorly prepared and gave stuttering and ill formed answers.



Rosie's Opinion - I would describe you rbeer drinkers story as simplistic. Sorry, but that whole charade of a parable doesn't wash, simplifying the issue to the point where important detail is lost - and I find your final two sentences extremely patronising, I would contend they ought to read:-

For both those who understand and for those who do not understand, further and far more more rigourous explanation is essential, not a trite little folksy story.
41

Lynne,

Palm Beach Gardens 27/10/2008 14:58:34
D.Feste.. #36 Draupnir is not Draupnir... he is a troll with another name.. comes here quite often, spewing hatred to Jews and Israel, and making radical, moronic statements like that.
There are quite a few trolls here..
42

D. Feste - Illyria, OH,

27/10/2008 15:12:02

Lynn:

Thanks for the info.

**********************************************

Please look up the definition of our "progressive tax" methods, used by the federal gov't since 1913.

Lower incomes are taxed at a lower percentage; higher incomes taxed at a higher percentage. Of course, as we all know, the higher brackets also have additional abilities to reduce their tax burden, which they do very successfully.

The entire concept was designed to "spread the wealth around", an attempt to create a middle-class and avoid the economic stratification that is always the result of uncontrolled capitalism.

This is what we have had since 1913 - It is what we have NOW.

Both McCain and Obama adhere to this method. . . .

It is most certainly "socialism" and was suggested by the likes of Adam Smith and our old nemesis, Karl Marx.

So, our system combines capitalistic incentives with socialistic management of excessive hoartding of wealth in the hands of the few.

Again, nothing new in this . . . . .

All this "socialist" scare talk is such utter nonsense, as we already have it !

43

,

27/10/2008 15:29:43
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44

GalacticCannibal,

Murrieta CA for more WAR VOTE geriatric McCain 27/10/2008 15:43:30
26
Globetrotter_scot.

Hey Man, Every intelligent and educated person knows, that my country, the US is not a democracy . The US is a Federal Republic. dude.

But we practice some democratic principles when we choose to do so.

Its the greatest and most crazy nation, and exciting place to live in.
With its melting pot of humankind. Its ignorance, its brilliance , its greed , its redneck masses, its marvels in technology, its corruption, its music its Hollywood.

Its New York people warrens, its redwood trees, its beaches, its vast national parks , like Yosemite where YOGI lives.

Its deserts, its lakes, its forests, its snow capped mountains, its prairies of grain, its crumbling freeways and bridges.

Its homeless on skid row, its political corruption, its military might, its communist supporting WAL-MART. Its guns, its murder rate.

Its racism , its hypocrisy, its national debt ($10.6 trillion), its sunshine (in California 324 days tearly) , its earthquakes , its hurricanes.

Its freedom to speak ur mind anyplace anytime (unlike CHINA)

But our shinning star is,

"The Cconstitution of the United States of America" and the Bill of Rights.
Created , and mostly written, by ancestors of people fleeing oppression from Gt. Britain.

Its going to be another great sunny 80 F day here in Southern Calif.

While in the political battleground states, the bimbo Palin will be squealing out a lost cause.

While the geriatric McCain, will continue to fumble and stagger on stage, talking about the past.

Welcome PRESIDENT OBAMA.. leader of the Free World.
(from rags to riches in America)

Adios

GC
(in the land of shrooms)
45

Carolyn 1,

27/10/2008 16:31:32
@44 GC
While in the political battleground states, the bimbo Palin will be squealing out a lost cause."

lost cause??? I hope not!!
On the campaign trail, supported by both democrat and republican 'feminists' Palin gave a speech last week, which the media failed to report. Hmmmm

http://thenewagenda.net/2008/10/22/palin-speaks-for-me/

NOW, and The New Agenda, (women's rights groups), are supporting Palin, and, most important, the New Agenda is calling out the media that are sexist, including Chris Matthews, the NYT, etc. including Harry Reid.

Sarah Palin gave a speech about women's rights not just here, but around the world:

"She promised that as Vice President she would help women around the world.

“There are still places where women are subjugated and persecuted as they were in Afghanistan, places we’re they’re bullied and brutalized and murdered in honor killings, places where women are sold like commodities in the nightmare world of the sex trade, and places where baby girls are unwelcome as a matter of state policy and their mothers are forced to have abortions.”


Does Sarah Palin have my vote? You bethca.
46

Carolyn 1,

27/10/2008 16:34:16
http://thenewagenda.net/september-16-2008-letter-to-mr-jeff-zucker/ (chris matthew letter)



47

D. Feste - Illyria, OH,

27/10/2008 17:07:19

#46- Carolyn1-

I completely agree with you about Chris Matthews and all those who would sideline women and women's issues.
His interviews are sexist and demeaning to all.

I regret that Sarah Palin is the woman of the hour, this time around. Women certainly deserve better than this mindless moron.

48

D. Feste - Illyria, OH,

27/10/2008 17:18:24

AND NOW . . . for something completely different -

http://www.minimovie.com/film-128460-McCain-Obama%20Dance-Off

VERY FUNNY !
49

GalacticCannibal,

Murrieta CA for more WAR VOTE geriatric McCain 27/10/2008 17:20:47
45
Carolyn 1

Listen up Dudess,

I will defend ur right to freedom and liberty, to the death . And that includes U misguided notion, to VOTE for Bimbo Palin.

In CHINA U would have no such rights. And neither would I.

Yet, We in the US have borrowed approx $1 trillion dollars from the brutal Chinese communists the CCP.
Some of that loans, used to prosecute the war in IRAQ which we started .

So lets stop all this hypocrisy, and agree, we are all tarred with the same brush GREED .

I hope U are not one of the posters who will get a post removed . And ignore the 1st. Amendment of the COTUSA.


Adios ...Opponent.

GC
50

Carolyn 1,

Woods Hole, Massachusetts 27/10/2008 17:37:50
@47
There is no ideal candidate with whom we agree on everything. We have to pick and choose the issues that matter most to us personally, and decide accordingly:


Jennifer Lee wrote at the link I posted above:

"On the topic of abortion, my lifelong democratic friends are curious that I would support Governor Palin (she declares herself as Pro-life) and I tell them this: I am a feminist who supports women as they achieve the highest goals. Not every woman is going to agree with me on every topic. But, I must fight for them in order to level the playing field in our government for all women. We have a history of zero women in the executive branch. How does this affect every girl in our nation? How does it affect us?
I am on the same team as the feminists sitting behind Governor Sarah Palin today. I am a feminist fighting for equality for all women. Teams win when the players stand behind each other and push all the players together to the finish. Governor Palin, I’ve got your back."

“…we have it in our power, not only to free ourselves, but to subdue our masters, and without violence, throw both your natural and legal authority at our feet.” Abigail Adams May 17, 1776
(Good Massachusetts Woman, that Abigail :))
51

Selgovae,

Scottish Borders 27/10/2008 18:48:17
#42 "It is most certainly "socialism" "

I think we used to call that kind of thing "a mixed economy". I don't know if the term is still used. It seems more accurate than the term "socialism". And its blandness appeals to politicians of all colours. After all, how can "lending a helping hand to the farmers" be classed as socialism. Helping blue collar workers on the other hand...
52

ebbi,

leeds 27/10/2008 18:49:33
all americans have to do is just to look around them and see what a mess thier country is in. as if having a capitalist system has got them all rich !!!! again look around you.mc cain and bush and the necon gang are feeding you a load of rubbish because they are all rich and stand to make lots and lots of money as they have done for the past eight years.
come on america , open your eyes and look at the mess and hatred you have attracted to yourselves in bush time alone.
53

D. Feste - Illyria, OH,

27/10/2008 19:15:17

#50-Carolyn-

I very much agree with many of your sentiments. . .

I am both husband and father and want nothing short of complete equality for my wife and daughter. I am a more rabid feminist than most women I meet !

However, to me, Sarah Palin represents the very antitheseis of the women's movement, an inversion of the ideals that women have fought for for so many years. Rather than creating an atmosphere of respect, dignity and equality, she has created a mockery of women in this country and has been severely criticised by both the left and the right. She is the living embodiment of an ill-prepared, adolescent ego attempting to live in a grown-up world. People do not buy this, they see through it and reject her as
an object of ridicule.

How do I explain this type of person to my teenage daughter ? Hillary was light-years ahead of Sarah in
all respects, but lacked sex-appeal and also intimidated everyone with her keen mind and sharp wit.

Intelligence doesn't play well in the USA !

Sarah is a very unfortunate diversion in the women's movement, a "post-feminist" being who appears to disregard the very basics of the women's struggle.

She provides constant evidence for those who believe that women are incapable of rational thought.

It's truly a shame that she had to be the one this time around; there are so many capable women who would have been perfect for the job, but lacked the sex-appeal and the "teaser" remarks that are part of the Sarah trademark. I believe her to be as fully exploited as the air-brushed examples of women in beauty magazines that we claim hurt our daughter's self-esteem. I understand that she will now become a Republican "jester" of sorts after the election, possibly with a talk-show, book deals, etc. Further mockery of all women in our country. . a disgrace.

Just my opinion . . . .




54

mike - across the pond,

vincent... and feste... 27/10/2008 19:18:04
yes, I have to agree with feste...

look at how many people on the left bring up things like race...

you will notice that NOWHERE did ANYONE of note on the right bring up race... just obama and his sycophants... at least with Palin on the ticket, you havent had to listen to the INCESSANT abortion ravings that are "du-jour" fare for normal elections...

I agree with Feste... there is WAY too much ignorance... most of it relates to a pretty simple set of terms... and how comfortable the residents of the parties are with those terms...

those on the left are "federalists"... to the core..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federalist

and a natural outgrowth of that belief structure is SOCIALISM...

contrast FEDERALISM with "STATES RIGHTS"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/States_rights

now note how the liberals chaffe under the label of FEDERALIST... or SOCIALIST...

they term it "name calling"...

I say "call a spade a spade"...

btw, the CONCEPT of federalism and states rights have been going at it for CENTURIES on this side of the pond...
55

mike - across the pond,

feste... 27/10/2008 19:23:58
womens rights...

you TALK a mean game pal...

then you support obama...???

LOOK AT IT...
Obama pays his female staffers 78% of what he pays his MALE staffers

McCain pays his female staffers MORE than he pays his male staffers...

screaming equal pay for equal work... gets Obama votes.... even though he doesnt practice what he preaches...

and YOU talk about people who will cast their votes out of ignorance

ROFL....
56

GalacticCannibal,

Murrieta CA for more WAR VOTE geriatric McCain 27/10/2008 19:37:20
Here are facts that the FP GOP rednecks to explain. All happened in the watch of the evil Bush.

The more than 209,000 non-farm jobs Ohio lost from 2000 to 2007 comprised the largest proportionate decline in employment since the end of the Great Depression, a national manufacturing trade group said Wednesday.

Employment dropped by 3.7 percent, the biggest seven-year drop since the period starting in 1939, near the end of the Depression and including the years the U.S. military absorbed millions of American workers to fight World War II.

Moreover, according to the analysis the American Manufacturing Trade Action Coalition commissioned, only Michigan lost a greater proportion of its employment than Ohio during the period -- 9.1 percent or 431,000 jobs.
DISAPPEARING JOBS
A report released Wednesday shows that 13 metro areas in Ohio saw manufacturing employment plunge from 2000 to 2007:

Springfield: -46.9 percent

Sandusky: -36.5 percent

Steubenville-Weirton, W.Va.: -31.4 percent

Dayton: -31.2 percent

Lima: -30.7 percent

Canton: -30.6 percent

Youngstown: -27.3 percent

Mansfield: -25.7 percent

Cleveland: -25.2 percent (48,800 jobs)

Columbus: -24.4 percent

Toledo: -22.6 percent

Cincinnati: -18.4 percent

Akron: -17.5 percent (10,000 jobs)

SOURCE: American Manufacturing Trade Action Coalition
"Our mission, basically, is to preserve and promote domestic manufacturing," said Lloyd Wood, a spokesman for the trade group in Washington, D.C. Part of that, he said, means encouraging policy makers to address cost advantages that overseas competitors have over American industrial companies.

"The industrial composition of Ohio job losses," in part, reflects recent record trade deficits and other national trends, said Charles McMillion, an economics consultant who analyzed Labor Department and other figures for the report.

McMillion, also in Washington, said Ohio lost 23.3 percent of its manufacturing sector jobs, or 236,000
57

mike - across the pond,

feste.... and hillary 27/10/2008 19:38:04
methinks you simplified the hillary problem far too much

it has NOTHING to do with "sex appeal"... and to even bring that to the table is demeaning to your daughter (and mine)...

I did not support hillary because she is a FEDERALIST... plain and simple...

me, I'd vote for a one legged lepper with the clap if I thought (he/she) would do the best job...

demeaning Palin because you find her "sexy" really shows what kind of person you are...

btw... SHES A MOTHER OF FIVE... just think about it for a moment....

you SHOULD be ashamed of those on the left... can you picture what would happen if some commedian got up there with the incessant mocking they do to Palin... if they directed THAT fire at "the chosen one"...

you cant even point out that hes an admitted SOCIALIST without you guys screaming "NO FAIR" or getting out the "racist" labels....

to be honest the term Femi-nazi comes to mind... you are fine as long as you espouse the feminist line... if not, you are a target for scorn and ridicule...

sounds kinda FASCIST to me....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascist

dont you agree?
58

GalacticCannibal,

Murrieta CA for more WAR VOTE geriatric McCain 27/10/2008 19:40:46
#56 cont'd

McMillion, also in Washington, said Ohio lost 23.3 percent of its manufacturing sector jobs, or 236,000 positions, over the recent seven years. Some other sectors gained jobs. It was a period, he said, of markedly lower capital investment in domestic industrial capacity in Ohio and throughout the nation.

It was also a period, he said, when American consumers and the government borrowed $10.3 trillion, "what should have been a tremendous stimulus," but it scarcely helped American workers.
---------------------------
Still the Bush and Cheney criminals continue t0 spend $10 billion dollars each month, re-building IRAQ after they trashed it.

On Jan20th. 2009 the evil will begone from the White House
Adios
GC
59

mike - across the pond,

GC.... 27/10/2008 19:47:36
you too simplify things FAR too much...

you talk about manufacturing jobs shrinking in Ohio...

I know quite a few people in Ohio... the thing is, the MANUFACTURERS in Ohio (you know those evil ones who make more than $250,000 per year) do business under some of the MOST regressive tax codes in the nation, it means that they are taxed in a way that ENCOURAGES them to take these jobs out of the state... and while they are packing those jobs up... taking them to china becomes a VERY attractive option...

INCREASING taxes is ONLY going to make the problem WORSE...

like Feste says... too many people will vote out of ignorance... completely unaware of the effects of the policies of those they vote FOR...
60

D. Feste - Illyria, OH,

27/10/2008 19:51:14

#57-

You are free to howl at the moon, amigo -

You've been taking Sarah Palin lessons in logic and persuasion, I see !
61

An Greumach Mor,

Scotland 27/10/2008 19:57:45
If anyone thinks that the change in USA president will change anything they are mistaken.

Big Business owns both candidates.

But if I had to choose I would side with Obama simply to adjust the balance of the bush era.

Bush will go down in history as one of the greatest phuck ups ever in your very short history

If you love your country as many of you passionately do then take your troops back before you bankrupt the nation rebuilding a schit hole like Iraq or stay and take the bloody oil then re write history to omit the facts. (Thats what the English did)

As for the media spin and blogging by paid people. Look at the number of posts from Americans on this subject, what a total waste. No one who reads this article can vote other than the bloggers who know who they are voting for anyway. Why bother.

62

mike - across the pond,

GC... 27/10/2008 20:02:24
so you are claiming that bush all by himself put the US govt in a 10.3 trillion dollar hole?

do you KNOW who writes the US budget?

Newt Gingrich and the GOP ballanced the budget... but did NOT pay off the deficit... (little inconvienient factoid there)

if my memory serves me, we were 4+ trillion in debt in 2001... granted that doubled under W... but it WAS 8 years... and if you remember the stock market had nearly DOUBLED over the same timespan...

does the GOP need some correcting of their ways... YOU BET...

is the DNC fearmongering.... oh yeah...

and distorting THEIR own track record along the way

but putting the loonies in charge of the assylum is beyond crazy...
63

Carolyn 1,

27/10/2008 20:03:04
@53
how about telling your daughter that SNL is comedy, a spoof, satire. How about telling your daughter if they want honest unbiased news read IBDeditorials or the Wall Street Journal, both of these are highly respected, and they think Palin is a talented executive.
"Editors' have become the most powerful people on the planet because they can make anything, and anyone, into whatever they please simply by parsing words, twisting them and finding photographs that prove the words to be true. The Scotsman excels at this. The manipulation of the news explains why newspapers are going out of business- their ethics tanked along with congress's.
It's a game, but not news.
But it's rare that a woman can achieve what Sarah Palin did without the help of a good husband. It's teamwork called a good family and a good marriage.

64

D. Feste - Illyria, OH,

27/10/2008 20:16:20

#63- Carolyn

I understand - my best wishes to you !

PS- It was not the SNL spoofs that bothered me, but Sarah herself - no matter !
65

mike - across the pond,

Greumach 27/10/2008 20:21:22
leaving...

like the brits did in china... when mao took over

like the brits did in Afghanistan

like the brits did throughout the arab world.... and africa...

leaving when the job gets tough doesnt really sound like the path we should follow.... does it?
66

Yane,

27/10/2008 21:06:40
#63 Carolyn — "But it's rare that a woman can achieve what Sarah Palin did without the help of a good husband..."
Ooops...looks like your conservative undergarments are back on display! lol
67

Scimitar1,

Glasgow 27/10/2008 21:31:03
Obama = The USA's Tony Blair. Listening to Obama one gets a sense of deja vu. Blair was the worst British leader since Ramsey MacDonald. Nobody did more to damage the social fabric of this country than he implementing his failed socialist policies. The USA will implode if they make the same mistake and elect their first socialist president.
68

Lynne,

Palm Beach Gardens 27/10/2008 22:02:10
Carolyn1.. today one cannot say news media, newspaper and ethics in the same breath. They don't exist!!
Ethics went away when Obama came onto the scene.
Suscriptions have fallen by the wayside, the print news has become a rag concerning politics. It will never be the same.
The biggest offender, the NYTimes has sunk to its lowest level and I, for one, hope it goes under.
The fact they printed classified information in a time of war should have forewarned people about their lack of ethics, and the hatchet job they did on Cindy McCain was cruel and had nothing to do with politics. There is no repect, no fair play, and it became obviously onesided, along with the main stream news who was going to be pushed down the throats of the public.
What a shame, that a bunch of left wing loonies can crown a President, and not leave it for the people to decide.
69

Laurette,

Carlsbad, California 27/10/2008 23:02:13
What a shame, that a bunch of left wing loonies can crown a President, and not leave it for the people to decide.

But isn't it the people that will be voting on Nov 4 Lynne? Not a bunch of newspapers marching into the polls??
70

Lynne,

Palm Beach Gardens 27/10/2008 23:05:56
jUST GOT THIS FROM A FRIEND.. NOTICE TO EMPLOYEES

As of November 5, 2008, when President Obama is officially elected into office, our company will install a few new policies which are in keeping with his new, inspiring issues of change and fairness:
1. All salespeople will be pooling their sales and bonuses into a common pool that will be divided equally between all of you. This will serve to give those of you who are underachieving a "fair shake".
2. All low level workers will be pooling their wages, including overtime, into a common pool, dividing it equally amongst yourselves. This will help those who are "too busy for overtime" to reap the reward from those who have more spare time and can work extra hours.
3. All top management will now be referred to as "the government". We will not participate in this "pooling" experience because the law doesn't apply to us.
4. The "government" will give eloquent speeches to all employees every week, encouraging it's workers to continue to work hard "for the good of all".
5. The employees will be thrilled with these new policies because it's "good to spread the wealth". Those of you who have underachieved will finally get an opportunity to participate in the "wealth" ; so those of you who have worked hard and had success will feel more "patriotic".
6. The last few people who were hired should clean out their desks. Don't feel bad, though, because President Obama will give you free healthcare, free handouts, free oil for heating your home, free food stamps, and he'll let you stay in your home for as long as you want even if you can't pay your mortgage. If you appeal directly to our democrat congress, you might even get a free flat screen TV and a coupon for free haircuts (shouldn't all Americans be entitled to nice looking hair?) !!!
If for any reason you are not happy with the new policies, you may want to rethink your vote on November 4th.
71

P·K ,

27/10/2008 23:30:42
Draupnir

What's this again? How many personalities do you have??? Why create another new ID once again? What are you hiding? Sickening of you trolling with multiple IDs. First, it's Thorr, then Gere and next as Brage. Now it's Draupnir!!!
72

Leftie,

UK 28/10/2008 00:58:22
@45
Carolyn1
"Sarah Palin gave a speech about women's rights not just here, but around the world:"

That has got to be the dumbest remark i've ever heard in my life

No one else in the world gives 2 hoots about a fool like Palin
73

Canadian Jambo,

28/10/2008 01:02:11
In America giving out free aspirins in a hospital is seen as 'socialism'. I know-I was once charged for them on a visit. I remember the nurse telling me that she liked the Canadian idea of 'socialised medicine' (her phrase) and that she thought her system was 'obscene'.
Believe me (and her) it is.
74

Lynne,

Palm Beach Gardens 28/10/2008 01:56:50
Canadian Jambo,

Then why do so many of you come here for medical care? They wait months to see doctors in Canada, and even a year to see a specialist. That ought to help someone with a brain tumor..right?
I live in Florida, where many Candians come down as snowbirds, and get to see their doctor while they are here. So much for socialized medicine.
The only thing that I see better in Canada is getting medications and they advertise here on the internet all the time. People go up to Canada in buses to save money that the Drug companies charge us more for... Other than that.. keep your socialized medicine with your bean counters.
75

,

28/10/2008 01:59:12
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
76

Leftie,

UK 28/10/2008 07:23:21
#75
Fìnnking,Lempäälä
The only thing millions of people care about is getting a good laugh at her expense

She's become the biggest joke in the world
77

Let's have the truth,

Queensland 28/10/2008 08:44:46
#76

"She's become the biggest joke in the world"

Even dumb blondes are now telling Sarah Palin jokes.
78

Let's have the truth,

Queensland 28/10/2008 08:49:11
#75 Fìnnking

Obviously millions do care what she has to say.

...Millions of white racists, skinheads and KKK members.

Fulfil your destiny Sarah, keep rabble rousing. You may yet get Obama shot.
79

David E. Duke,

28/10/2008 12:32:01
78 Let's have the truth

Palin married a native American Indian, skinheads & KKK which are such a tiny group of nutters would not like her because of that. Blacks are a much larger group of racists and will not vote for her and McCain because they are white.
80

,

28/10/2008 14:50:06
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
81

,

30/10/2008 15:51:51
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
82

P·K ,

31/10/2008 13:26:39
#81 Thorr aka Gere aka Brage the Troll

So, the truth hurts!!! You have virtually lost your plot and have nothing left to counter my claim, you idiotic Troll. Trying to bluff your way off using multiple IDs and create new ones from time to time. You have no one to fool except yourself. Dream on, Jihadist.
What are you hiding, coward???

 

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