Help Sitemap Home Skip Navigation Contact Us Disability Statement

Drink Driving, Don't Risk It!

Christmas Gift Guide

Karzai 'has revived Taleban's barbarism to women'

Click on thumbnail to view image
Click on thumbnail to view image
Click on thumbnail to view image
Click on thumbnail to view image
Click on thumbnail to view image

Published Date: 15 August 2009
HUMAN rights campaigners have accused president Hamid Karzai of "selling out" Afghan women by ratifying a Shiite law – which critics fear will legalise rape – ahead of next week's election.
The New York-based group Human Rights Watch (HRW) yesterday discovered that an amended version of the controversial Personal Status Law quietly came into effect on 27 July, when it was published in the official gazette.

The legislation is meant to govern family law for minority Muslim Shiites, who make up about 15 per cent of Afghanistan's 30 million population, and is different to rules for the majority Sunni population.

It requires Shia women to satisfy their husband's sexual appetites, an article which critics have said could be used to justify marital rape.

Mr Karzai, who approved the legislation earlier this year, was forced to review the decision after western leaders said the "abhorrent" laws harked back to Taleban-era restrictions and Afghan women's rights groups protested on the streets.

Mr Karzai has previously said western concerns about the law were "inappropriate" and may have been based on "misinterpretations" but promised last April to make changes if it was found to violate the constitution.

However, HRW says the amended law still contains some of its "most repressive" articles that directly contravene the Afghan constitution, which bans any kind of discrimination and distinction between citizens.

A copy of the final law seen by HRW enshrines a husband's right to withdraw basic maintenance from his wife, including food, if she refuses to obey his sexual demands, and requires women to get permission from their husbands to work.

It also grants guardianship of children exclusively to their fathers and grandfathers and effectively allows a rapist to avoid prosecution by paying "blood money" to a girl who was injured when he raped her.

Brad Adams, Asia director for HRW, said: "Karzai has made an unthinkable deal to sell Afghan women out in return for the support of fundamentalists in the 20 August election. So much for any credentials he claimed as a moderate on women's issues.

"These kinds of barbaric laws were supposed to have been relegated to the past with the overthrow of the Taleban in 2001, yet Karzai has revived them and given them his official stamp of approval."

Fatemeh Hosseini, an Afghan women's rights activist, said Karzai had been pressured by both sides but in the end had given in to conservative Muslim clerics.

"Karzai promised he would make changes and he has brought changes. But the changes are only in the wording, the context is the same," she said.

"Karzai is trying to please both sides but for them, the mullahs are more important than women," she said.

HRW has demanded the Afghan parliament overturns the law and has called on presidential candidates to amend or repeal it.

"Afghanistan's parliament should overturn this law, and its constitutional court should throw out provisions that violate the constitution and its international legal obligations," said Mr Adams.

Mr Karzai signed the Shia Personal Status Law in March, prompting a national and international storm of protest. The law also regulates divorce, separation, inheritance, and the minimum age for marriage.

The law was designed in secret by a powerful and hard-line Shia leader, Ayatollah Asif Mohseni, and supported by conservative Shia leaders in parliament.

In a rare move, Afghan women took to the streets in April to protest, braving threats and violence.

After many world leaders condemned the legislation, Mr Karzai submitted the law to a consultation process with civil society groups in May.


Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 14 August 2009 11:02 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Afghanistan
 
1

Finlang,

Hong Kong 15/08/2009 00:55:45
In the wonderful, wacky, blinkered world of Islam nothing changes. Nothing. Change is anathema to religious leaders of every extremist stripe. But Islam is way out there on a limb of its own. Its persistent dominance is built on a climate of absolute fear and extreme barbarism towards those who disobey. Women, as chattels, have no voice, no choice. Effectively nothing of worth. Cover up and shut up - or suffer - is the Islamic way.
2

2dogs in D.C.,

15/08/2009 01:03:57
What a sad and sorry life over there.
3

Finlang,

Hong Kong 15/08/2009 01:19:38
Dogs - it's over here and over everywhere in the west too. DC included.
4

2dogs in D.C.,

15/08/2009 01:22:22
#3-Yep.And how's your personal survival kit coming along? Mine's almost complete.
5

Finlang,

Hong Kong 15/08/2009 01:37:27
#4

Ever aware, pal, ever ready. Professionally I've had the pleasure of meeting 100s of people from many countries and cultures from around the world. Of all of those, Islam is the scariest and most narrow belief system. Yet the few Muslim women I've met (and those I know well) are totally charming.




6

2dogs in D.C.,

15/08/2009 01:56:17
Me too.But I'm hitched,and happy,so my knowledge of the women is more cerebral.As I've said time and again,people are people the world over,some are asses,some are gold.Take 'em on a personal basis.
7

redcliffe62,

15/08/2009 03:15:01
tell me again, why are the brave boys sent over there fighting? democracy? modernity? or to continue to allow the moderate parts of the taleban to control the agenda as usual?
by moderate i mean do not kill women in football stadiums after being forcibly raped, just simply allow the acts to continue.
there are some aspects of islam that disgust me, and this is clearly indefensible.
when islam accepts men and women are equal i will consider it an equal religion to others.
8

Jack Hessmer,

15/08/2009 03:22:08
Democracy American style. lol.

#7 redcliffe
"the brave boys sent over there fighting? democracy? modernity? or to continue to allow the moderate parts of the taleban to control the agenda"

The brave boys should stay home where they belong and allow the folks who live there to rule their own destiny.
9

2dogs in D.C.,

15/08/2009 03:29:47
redcliffe-I'm not too keen on the war myself.But we've got into it,and so I guess that's that.All we can do is give what support we can to the people fighting it.However,the fight in afghan's been on for eight years,and though I can't say about the U.K.,the U.S. does not have a draft(Though I think a draft might change opinions about wars.)So,after eight years of conflict,any volunteer must be aware of what he or she is signing up for.And,yes,Islam can be just as stupid and murderous as any other religion.
10

donald,

glasgow 15/08/2009 03:38:50
The history of the Christian religion is steeped in blood. What do we expect of superstitious beliefs?
11

Fifi la Bonbon,

15/08/2009 06:55:54
To be fair, donald, the histories of revolutionary socialism and militant nationalism are also steeped in blood.

Yet the founders and preachers of religion, marxism-leninism and nationalism all swear blind that their way is the one true path to peace, freedom and justice - just as soon as we have ruthlessly destroyed the heretics, traitors and class enemy along with their families and, probably, household pets.
12

Ben Thehoose,

15/08/2009 07:44:40
So we sending our troops to die to replace one form of barbarism with another.

It makes you proud, dunnit?
13

oder,

Scotland 15/08/2009 07:58:16
2dogs in D.C.,

"Islam can be just as stupid and murderous as any other religion."

please clear this up for me if you will, I can understand this being used it the past tense but how is this applicabe now?
What other religions are operating like Islam at present?
14

jockstrap,

Cyprus 15/08/2009 09:05:47
#13
How about Christians? Until recently (but still happening) Protestants and Roman Catholics in Northern Ireland
15

billengland,

15/08/2009 09:05:54
But what has this to do with the pipeline which NATO went there to build?

The natives are restless - send more troops.
16

Joe McT,

15/08/2009 09:31:04
And "we" are there to turn this Country into a Democracy?
17

Let's have the truth,

Australia 15/08/2009 09:36:06
"We" are there fighting and dying to maintain their status quo.

How much sense does THAT make?
18

,

15/08/2009 09:39:26
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
19

,

15/08/2009 11:51:14
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
20

2dogs in D.C.,

15/08/2009 12:12:18
It's pretty hard for me to agree with #18,when he says "cowardly" (Though I agree w/most of the rest of his post).What I mean is,I'm too much into the possibilities of life to strap on a suicide bomb.And I don't care how many "virgins"are waiting.
21

Gordon Clifford,

Denai Spain 15/08/2009 12:38:03
Lets get this straight, there are no verses in Te Koran that support the subjugation and mistreatment of women. There are many verses that refer to the equality of men and women and how women should be treated with respect. The Law discussed in the article is a gross distortion of what is written in The Koran and has been drafted by bigoted Islamic fundamentalists. If Islam is a "Scum" religion as suggested by #18 then by the same warped logic, Judaism and Christianity are as well, for they all have the same root. Bigoted fundamentalists are rife in every religion, not just Islam.
22

,

15/08/2009 13:00:30
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
23

billalba,

fife 15/08/2009 13:13:51
sam the man the snp do not fear at all..
rubbish in rubbish out.
24

Nepme1,

15/08/2009 14:17:31
21 Gordon Clifford
I fail to see the need for you to use comparison and switching topic when the main story is on Afghanistan which is a Muslim country and where Islamic values are practised by the Afghans. It has nothing to do with Judaism, Christianity.... No such thing as the same; each religions have different practice and laws. Which faith of believers engaged in beheading and then showed it on video? Which group kill in the name of their religion and taught martyrdom? Which group oppress women the most, that she is considered worths half a man? If you think it's Christians who do that, send me reliable evidence to back up.
25

Gordon Clifford,

Denia Spain 15/08/2009 14:53:24
#24

May I suggest you read the post again. I am well aware that Afghanistan is a Moslem country, I have made no comparison, the mention of Judaism and Christianity was in reply to the assertion of # 18 that Islam is a "Scum" religion and therefore, by expanding this warped view, so must the other two be as all three come from the same root. It is not what radical Moslems do, that is the question here, it is about what they should do according to The Koran, respect and treat women as equals. Karzai has clearly chosen to take a completely distorted view of this requirement to satisfy his Taliban opponents
26

Nepme1,

15/08/2009 15:09:01
25 Gordon Clifford
If you are not onto comparison, then stay focus to one religion as what #18 did. Why the need to bring up Judaism and Christianity which are different from that of Islam to compare with and make a switch? Each has their own ways of practising and beliefs differ from the other.
27

batey,

15/08/2009 15:37:05
What the hell are we doing there if we let woman be raped.
28

batey,

15/08/2009 15:42:54
Maybe someone should rape Karzai!
29

batey,

15/08/2009 15:48:38
Our men and women are dying to try and bring democracy to this country,Rape is not part of of the deal.In fact, British woman are not out there to condone or defend rapists.
30

letmein,

Paisley 15/08/2009 19:05:49
What is going on in this world!? When decent and truthful comments like #18 are removed!?
31

,

15/08/2009 20:43:54
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
32

oder,

Scotland 15/08/2009 20:55:19
jockstrap,Cyprus

suicide bombings,martyrdom,flogging of women in public. cutting of hands and feet for crimes etc,etc


when was the last IRA suicide bomber?
when was the last Catholic martyr that died for Christianity in Ireland?
when was the last person to hand and feet cut of for theft?

I still dont see the connection would you like to try again?
33

Lys Alf,

16/08/2009 10:46:37
Once more it is time to remind everyone that Democracy was evolved in tolerant, Pagan Europe by a man called Pericles who lived in the ancient Athens of 400B.C.

Democracy is not necessarily an exportable commodity.

The folk in Afganistan do not have the requisite European cultural heritage to want to embrace the political ideology of the invaders and occupiers of their land.

What is more they must be pretty upset by the ongoing slaughter of their women and children in American air strikes against "suspected insurgents".

Since when in Western culture is someone killed on suspicion???
34

Lys Alf,

Scotland 16/08/2009 11:00:48
Post #13 Oder

The Christians would burn people at the stake for not accepting or believing the prevailing Christian doctrine. Bruno was murdered at the stake by christians for daring to speculate that other worlds besides the earth might exist. This was as late as the 16th centuary.

Gallileo himself narrowly escaped torture or worse by the compassionate christians of his day! If the christians discovered the staffs our ancestors used in the worship of our indigenous European Gods they were burnt to death.

Consequently, our ancestors disguised the staffs as broomstick handles. How may people were executed in Scotland alone for blasphemy or even daring to question the reality of the crucified Bedouin Rabbi's divinity ??????
35

stoneofdestiny100,

16/08/2009 11:03:16
Anybody who thinks this story has any credibility has never met an Afgan woman.
Any Afgan Husband who tries to molest his wife in any way she doesnt approve off better pray to Allah to inflict him with insomnia for the rest of his life.
He will wake up one day sooking on his own manhood.
36

stoneofdestiny100,

16/08/2009 11:05:39
31

Religion itself isnt dangerous its the morons who interepret religion into something they want to believe in. You wont find two people anywhere who will interpret the Bible or the Quaran the same way.
37

stoneofdestiny100,

16/08/2009 11:07:59
Mind you I would love to compare rape statistics between any so called Western democracies with any Islamic state any day of the week and twice on Saturday nights.
38

oder,

Scotland 16/08/2009 12:11:31
Lys Alf,Scotland

for one who appears to have some understanding of history you seem to come up short when it comes to the history of so called Christians much like the early church being guilty of such atrocities,this is not the issue that's under discussion, your knowledge of Christian/Church history like all atheist stops at the 1600 century,which tends to suit the atheist argument
justify their own belief or should I say non belief, then come on these boards if not to defend then imply that some how this is right or acceptable behaviour on the pretext that because some other religion did it is flawed.

when was the last burning at the stake by Christians after 1600s?

when was last date in Scotland or any where else in the Christian secular countries drowning of withes?



if you can get past the 1600s you might have point.







39

,

16/08/2009 12:13:07
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
40

,

16/08/2009 15:23:23
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
41

Carolyn 1,

16/08/2009 16:29:56
Lys Alf @42
I am amazed that you seem to be unaware of the atrocities that compasionate Christians"


The spoils of self-interest in action!

Will the various factions and religions of the world ever stop digging at the grave? The constant digging as a means to reinvent the worst of the past, use it to execrate the present and excoriate the progress that has been made-

To intentionally use the worst of history of who we were rather than the best of history and who we are, with the singular purpose to cut someone down in the present, to stop the progress of moving on peacefully... an ironic circle...

How far in the past does something regrettable have to be before the present won't use it as a weapon?

The most absurd are the atheists and pagans who pretend pagan and atheism isn't religion: it IS religion and no different than any other faction of religion that attacks others who do not believe in their version or share the same opinions or way of life

oder @40 is correct, digging at the past unfortunate events is just another manipulation, same old same old tactic.
42

Hanz,

England 16/08/2009 17:34:13
This is as much to do with centuries of ingrained culture designed to give men the last say than it is to do with islam. I am sure many afghan men wouldn't dream of exercising this brutal "right" but the very fact its legal is cause for alarm. I have heard it said on many occasions how the koran gives men and women equal rights. The fact is afghanistan has been war torn for the last half a century, the country is in lockdown and people look to strong voices ie. extremist nutters to represent them. Karzai has made a political decision to let this fly in order to gain votes he is in a difficult situation but he is the west's main hope at modernising afghanistan and restoring it to its former wealth (yes it was wealthy once- same GDP as Portugal many decades ago) only then will it modernise slowly as the old generations die out and their values die with them.
43

Fromtruthcomesloveandpeace,

Texas 16/08/2009 19:32:06
Gordon Clifford. The Bible TEACHES to love your wife as Christ loves the church--which is totally and completely.Islam in contrast teaches wife beating in the Quran. Christ said to love and bless your enemy, and forgive(the only way to break the cycle of revenge)and return good for evil, so your comparison of good vs evil as evil vs evil is wrong. Where there is truth there is love,peace,patience,kindness, tolerance, forgiveness, democracy and freedom.. Where there is evil there is terror, hate, revenge, oppression, and cruelty..Does Islam ring a bell?
44

oder,

Scotland 16/08/2009 19:43:42
42 Lys Alf,Scotland

Duncan is on the historians map because in 1944, she was tried at the Old Bailey under the 1735 Witchcraft Act and sentenced to nine months in jail.

now if you go further into this story you will find that MI5 and the Admiralty had an interest in her she correctly confirmed and publicly announced a navy ship had been sunk when the navy were trying to keep it quiet during the war, I think you will find that it was rightly or wrongly the British establishment were attempting to keep her quiet in other words she was a "security risk" and the British wanted her out of the way hence the enactment of 1735 charge on witchcraft rather than the actions of a wicked vengeful barbarous intolerant "Christian" society.

the last Dundee witch burned at the stake was Gissel Jaffray in 1670 or there abouts.

Now to get this back on topic

No Christian religion or Jewish today practices or condones any of the above acts except "Islam" all other religions have move beyond the 10th century mentality that was the point I was making.
45

,

16/08/2009 19:55:11
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
46

Lys Alf,

Scotland 16/08/2009 20:22:08
Post#46 Oder

You have misread my post, you refer to the 10th century when I have mentioned that Bruno was burnt at the stake in the 16th.

The unfortunate last victim of Christian murder by burning in Switzerland was carried out towards the end of the 18th century.

Recently she received an official pardon the matter was well publicised in the media.

Lastly, I reiterate that it was only as a result of a landmark case in England Circa 1954 that those of us who follow the ancient religion of our Northern European ancestors have been permitted to worship freely on this island without the prospect of facing criminal charges.

Even your example of Gissel Jaffray in 1670 took place well after the 10th century you mentioned in your post!
47

Lys Alf,

Scotland 16/08/2009 20:27:51
Post #43 Carolyn 1

You are labouring under a misaprehension, Pagans have always maintained that their belief system is a religion.

We were practising our ancient religion for thousands of years before the Christians began persecuting and murdering us for continuing to worship our ancient indigenous European Gods
48

Lys Alf,

Scotland 16/08/2009 20:37:27
Posts # 49 Carolyn, Post# 46 Oder

In closing I would like to point out that in most African countries today you will find Christian mobs that regularly burn or otherwise murder women and children who have been identified as "witches".

In most cases the action has been approved beforehand by a Christian Pastor!
49

we the people,

16/08/2009 21:47:56
fromtruth...

which sura of the quran ´teaches´wifebeating?
50

oder,

Scotland 16/08/2009 22:23:05
50 Lys Alf

Having spent thirty years in Africa many African Nations and tribes have indeed carried out such atrocities and done so for many centuries the problem I have with your "view" on it is it started with pagan Africans before the arrival Christian missionaries who had very limited ability to prevent it, mans aggression is an attribute of his character rather than brought about by his religious belief altho it may aggravate it at times.

Islam is a religion from the 10th century I did not misquote it, you misread my post.

"No Christian religion or Jewish today practices or condones any of the above acts except "Islam" all other religions have move beyond the 10th century mentality that was the point I was making."

now the bits of information you picked up over witches
one in Switzerland for act in the 1800s, Bruno in the 1600s does not constitute a barbarous Christian society
no matter how you want to put it.

you have actually given the answer when in 1954 the law was changed, was this by the murdering Westminster Government how many of your followers murdered by this government between 1925 and 1940? now even if this garbage was true you are acknowledging the point that I was making namely that they (Christians/Jews)have can/move away from their one time barbarous past, and pagans like you and others can enjoy and practice their faith, you are better off with secular bunch for if Islam gets their hands on you, it has been make very clear in the Koran what is to done with "mischief makers" I would suggest you read it for it has a greater bearing on your future, you have survived the Christians there are no pagans in Islamic countries. Well! none willing to publicly admit it.

51

Carolyn 1,

16/08/2009 22:59:18
Lys @50
I would like to point out that in most African countries today you will find Christian mobs that regularly burn or otherwise murder women and children"

Yet, you seem to think in Africa that stoning Islamic women to death for being raped is less criminal?

Do you have any fact-based data on these murderous Christian Mobs?

The point is, like I said in my earlier post, digging at the past and unfortunate events is just another manipulation by intolerant people who will grasp at anything and use it to execrate the present and excoriate the progress that is being made.

As for your assertion that Pagans were not violent, it's my opinion that the Pagan's practice of human sacrifice for rain and crops was persecution, an inhumane act of inhumanity on another living being.

As for traditions, which is basically the core of religion, I know virtually nothing about religions or doctrine but I do know from an academic research point that Christianity and the many symbols of Christianity, were a gradual merging of pagan beliefs with Christian belief. Rather than give you a list, a few minutes of reading about Russian Orthodox customs, Pyansky in particular, will show proof of the joyous evolution from Paganism to Christianity. The egg was a Pagan symbol for rebirth, the cycle of life and perfection. The egg is off course the Christian symbol for Easter, the symbol of rebirth, perfection and the cycle of life....etc, etc.

I know virtually nothing about any religion but I do know from an academic research point that Christianity and the many symbols of Christianity, were a gradual merging of many pagan beliefs with the newer Christian belief. Rather than give you a list, a few minutes of reading about Russian orthodox customs, such as pyansky will be proof.
52

Carolyn 1,

16/08/2009 23:32:46
Ooops, sorry about that sloppy post @53! Please ignore the last paragraph!
Evidently you can't drop your laptop the down stairs!
53

oder,

Scotland 16/08/2009 23:34:22
51 we the people,

try the Medinan sura from the many references to women

verse 3.43 where it gives the husband authority to hit his wife.
54

suileandubh,

Australia 17/08/2009 02:20:32
It's all very well to argue that British (and Australian for those Scots who live here)troops shouldn't be there 'supporting' this culture in the name of democracy but what about the Afghani women? Do we just walk away and leave them? They are now to have no voting rights as well as all these other atrocious violations of human rights. We can't just walk away from them. This isn't about Islam (The Koran does not advocate abject cruelty and abuse of women)but it does appear to be about an extreme fundamentalist aspect.
55

suileandubh,

Australia 17/08/2009 02:46:35
It is also narrow to suggest Islam is bad because of its human rights violations. ALL religions commit atrocities. Christian and otherwise. Some seem to hide their crimes better than others but it tends to come out later. Just look at how the Catholic Church has treated children in orphanages in Ireland and Australis and maybe elsewhere, I don't know. The aftermath of their atrocities is experienced by the victims for the rest of their lives.
Pope John Paul visited the Philipines in the 1980s/90s (forget the date)and told MILLIONS of Filipino women to STOP using contraception. These women are mostly povery striken, worn out or sick through childbirth and yet their religious leader told them it's their duty to bear children.
Look at missionaries towards Australian Aboriginal people.You could go forever listing relious human rights violators. No wonder so many people abandon religion.
Man's inhumanity to man as Robbie said. Never a truer word was spoken.
56

Horrible Cankers @Cyber Shebeen,

17/08/2009 09:56:46
Aaah religion eh?...problem is human beings aint mature enough to handle it....
57

Lys Alf,

Scotland 17/08/2009 11:28:28
Post #53 Carolyn 1

Firstly, I refer to your post #43:

"The most absurd are the atheists and pagans who pretend pagan and atheism isn't religion: it IS religion and no different than any other faction of religion that attacks others who do not believe in their version or share the same opinions or way of life"
Amoral=no morals, Asplenitic=no spleen Atheist=no belief in Deities. I hate to wax pedantic but if you consult the Oxford Lexicon you will discover why Atheism can never be a religion! Charlemagne slaughtered some 4,000 Saxons on one occassion alone, conversion by the sword it is called. Similarity to Islam?? After he destroyed the Irminsil outside Horn our more Northerly Kindred realised he danger Christianity posed and attacked the danger at one of its roots, Lindersfarn! To this day we celebrate the third week-end in June as Pagan "pay back time"! Pagan Rome honoured many gods, for instance Mithras a Persian deity was popular with the legions, Isis and many other "foreign Gods" were honoured. Before their intolerance of other Gods became known Rome even tolerated the Christians, if this were not so Christianity would not have survived! Pyanski would have been misrepresenting Paganism through his Christian eyes and predjudice, much as you are doing in your posts. The egg and the bunny are symbols of the Godess Estora, also known as Freya! Yule is another celebration stolen from the our Pagan ancestors. We still celebrate mothetnight or wolfmoon on 21Dec of each year and keep the following 12 nights therafter sacred!
58

Lys Alf,

Scotland 17/08/2009 11:42:16
Post#53 Carolyn1

"Yet, you seem to think in Africa that stoning Islamic women to death for being raped is less criminal"?

Please enlighten me as to what convoluted reasoning you used to arrive at that conclusion?????

"As for your assertion that Pagans were not violent, it's my opinion that the Pagan's practice of human sacrifice for rain and crops was persecution, an inhumane act of inhumanity on another living being"

Please ensure you able to separate Christian propaganda from historical fact here! A religous feast of worship always took place after or before a communal meal, depending on the particular tradition being followed. The bones of the animals eaten were offered to the Gods and continue to be unearthed at ancient places of worship to this day. Bon fire is believed to have been derived fron these "bone fires"
59

at the office,

HQ 17/08/2009 13:18:51
58 Horrible Cankers @Cyber Shebeen,

Aaah religion eh?...problem is human beings aint mature enough to handle it....

certainly you aren't? how easily you forget, your the one who said you were not interest in Islam on the other thread "honour killing over mobile phone secret" because you dont approve of the subject under discussion? and you know nothing about it anyway? so what the point of your post if not to insult?
60

Carolyn 1,

17/08/2009 15:24:02
@59
but if you consult the Oxford Lexicon you will discover why Atheism can never be a religion!"

Perhaps you could take the time and notify the US court system and the current President Obama of that legality.

Atheists, as a religion of not believing, have the rights to post their belief of non-belief alongside other religious beliefs, such as a creche during the Christmas holidays.
61

Carolyn 1,

17/08/2009 15:35:09
@60
Bon fire is believed to have been derived fron these "bone fires" '

To assert that human sacrifice is a good fire is abominable!

If it were a good fire, as you suggest, then to extrapolate that further, it could be said that burning witches at the stake was a good fire.

To extrapolate even further, perhaps the reason witches were burned at the stake was a fall back to ancient superstitions and policies they perpetuated.
In other words, they brought it on themselves.
62

Carolyn 1,

17/08/2009 15:58:37
@59
Pyanski would have been misrepresenting Paganism through his Christian eyes"


Pyanski is a verb, not a guy.
Pyasnky predates Christianity.
Pyansky is pagan.
How, from your viewpoint, pyansky could misrepresent pagan- well that's impossible, because it is the pagan beliefs, superstitions, rituals, worship practices etc from the Ukrainian, Slav regions of the globe- many of which were joyously merged with Christianity.

I guess what you disagree with is that they MERGED these beliefs with Christianity. I think it's called evolution and progress when cultures adopt to new discoveries and belief systems. Pagan beliefs from that region evolved, you perhaps did not.
63

Lys Alf,

Scotland 17/08/2009 17:17:36
Post #63 Carolyn1

Your statement:

"To assert that human sacrifice is a good fire is
abominable"

Who asserted that???? Please indicate where in my post I made that assertation!!!

"Perhaps you could take the time and notify the US court system and the current President Obama of that legality"

Americans do not speak English, nor are they rational. Their determination to continue to be fleeced by the Health Care Companies bears this out!
Paranoia is a clearly identifiable national trait!

Your posts are begining to entertain me, I can hardly contain my anticipation to be amused by reading your next post, especially now that you have descended to personal insults.

Reply soon. Really I am amused not offended!
64

Carolyn 1,

traveling on vacation 17/08/2009 17:51:28
@65 ..especially now that you have descended to personal insults.
Reply soon. Really I am amused not offended! "

I don't see where I insulted you?
Considering your many references to being Pagan, my saying that perhaps you did not evolve from Paganism to Russian Orthodox, (or any other religion for that matter)is an affirmation that you kept and do keep the original belief system of that time. The only way that would be an insult is if you thought being Pagan was not representative of your own belief system. Which would mean you're not Pagan?
Being easily amused? Laughter is a good thing!
65

,

18/08/2009 02:42:31
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
66

oder,

Scotland 18/08/2009 09:49:16
Oder is Carolyn? dont think so, obviously your inexperience (certainly with this one of your names)is showing Stoneofdestiny
67

Carolyn 1,

18/08/2009 13:33:11
@67
Carolyn doesn't like being told she's wrong."

I think you meant to say Lys Alf won't admit its wrong.
(If I'm wrong- I'll say so.)

Pyanska is tradition of Russian Orthodox and other cultures in the slav regions of Europe.
Pyanska is based on pagan belief and traditions and merged and then evolved with Christianity to be one of the most recognized symbols of Christian religions today- the painted Easter egg and all the symbols associated with Easter eggs, like the eternal lines that circle it for example.. (not the bunny)

It's also common knowledge that Pagans sacrificed humans and animals for better crops, rain, fertility etc.

Human Sacrifice are abhorrent acts of violence that Lys Alf conveniently glosses over as if the pagan religions are clean of violence! Not so.

That Lys thinks these sacrifices (bone fire) were good fires... Its words- not mine... therein lies the difference- it believes sacrifice is an 'acceptable loss' and I do not.

Lys is wrong. Period. -and will never never admit the violence of paganism
68

Lys Alf,

Scotland 18/08/2009 14:35:53
Post #69 Carolyn 1

From your posing:
"Perhaps you could take the time and notify the US court system and the current President Obama of that legality"

Carolyn that piece alone is worthy of Dawn French's best comedic talent!

Have you ever considered a career as a comedienne? I know talent when I see it and I believe you could make a veritable fortune by performing this misreading act you perform so well. You have an incredible and unique talent not only for misreading the english language (not American colonial english) and subsequently drawing preposterous conclusions from a text you have read.

Please do not neglect this talent, exploit it to your fiscal advantage, you have my best wishes for your success!

 

Comment on this Story

 

In order to post comments you must Register or Sign In

 
 
 
 


Sister Newspapers:
Press Complaints Commission

This website and its associated newspaper adheres to the Press Complaints Commission’s Code of Practice. If you have a complaint about editorial content which relates to inaccuracy or intrusion, then contact the Editor by clicking here.

If you remain dissatisfied with the response provided then you can contact the PCC by clicking here.