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Hamas chief's son among 19 killed in Israeli attack

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Published Date: 16 January 2008
THOUSANDS of angry mourners marched through Gaza yesterday to bury the son of the Strip's most senior Hamas leader, killed alongside 18 other Palestinians in an Israeli incursion on the single worst day of fighting in the territory since 2006.
It was a devastating personal blow for Mahmoud Zahar, the Hamas strongman and founder who masterminded the Islamic movement's takeover of Gaza last year.

Hamas sources said that his son, Hussam Zahar, 24, was killed after an Israeli missile st
ruck his car. Hussam Zahar served as an armed bodyguard for his father, but the Israeli army said he was not deliberately targeted and that it learned only afterwards of his death.

Zahar's eldest son, Khaled, was killed in a botched assassination attempt five years ago when Israeli jets bombed the family residence.

At the morgue at Shifa hospital in Gaza City, Zahar held his lifeless son's bloodied head in his hands and closed his eyes, then kissed him three times on the forehead and recited verses from the Koran.

Zahar was accompanied by his brother Yousef Zafar – a police commander – and his sole remaining son, Mohammed.

Hamas, he vowed, will respond to Tuesday's raid "in the appropriate way – we will defend ourselves by all means".

Hamas immediately stepped up its involvement in the daily barrage of rocket and mortar fire on southern Israel. While allowing other militant factions to attack southern Israeli communities with impunity, the Islamic militant group has not taken the lead in the assaults in recent months.

As fighting raged in Gaza, a Hamas sniper shot and killed an Ecuadorian volunteer working in the potato fields of an Israeli border farm.

Major Avital Leibovitz, an Israeli army spokeswoman, described the incursion as a "routine operation" to thwart cross-border rocket fire and infiltration attempts. The Palestinian Centre for Human Rights said that five civilians were among the dead and accused the army of using "excessive lethal force without regard for the lives of Palestinian civilians in the affected areas".

In Gaza City, more than 20,000 mourners crowded a mosque to pray for the dead.

Speaking of the Israeli incursions, Salah Bardawil, a Hamas MP, said: "We link this to Bush's visit," referring to last week's attempt by the US president to push forward negotiations between Israel and the moderate Palestinian government in the West Bank.

"Bush gave the green light to the Israelis not only for this incursion but also to inflict losses and carry out bloodletting against the Palestinian people and the resistance."

FURY OF HAMAS MASTERMIND

MAHMOUD Zahar, a physician trained in Egypt, masterminded Hamas's armed takeover of Gaza from president Mahmoud Abbas's Fatah movement in June, and previously served as foreign minister in the government Hamas formed after it won parliamentary elections in 2006.

Mr Zahar has described the creation of "Hamastan" as a goal of Hamas.

He is known to agree with the hardest of Hamas hardliners, who refuse to accept the existence of Israel. On 14 June, 2006, Palestinian officials reported that Mr Zahar – who was then serving as foreign minister – brought 12 suitcases stuffed with $26.7 million in cash into Gaza through its border with Egypt.

Mr Zahar yesterday accused the moderate Mr Abbas of complicity in his son's death for negotiating with Israel.

"This is the hope of Abu Mazen and his colleagues, the collaborators with Israel and the spies of America," Mr Zahar said, using Mr Abbas's nickname.



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  • Last Updated: 15 January 2008 8:49 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Middle East conflict
 
1

Wally,

By The Rivers Of Babylon (USA) 16/01/2008 01:07:07
Israel has driven Hamas to violence. We were moving into a time-period when there was very little violence from the Palestinians, and Israel just had to keep pounding them. We must remember that Israel kills over 30 Palestinians for every Israeli that the Palestinians kill. and then there's the relentless economic persecution against the Palestinians.

Here's an article about the World Bank's assessment of the economic persecution against Gaza.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/881324.html

and here's an article about how the Israeli government just keeps turning the screws.

http://weekly.ahram.org.eg/2008/879/re2.htm

Israel should choose peace not war, life not death.
2

FrancesP,

16/01/2008 01:41:46
"Major Avital Leibovitz, an Israeli army spokeswoman, described the incursion as a 'routine operation'."

Can you imagine the fury in Israel if anyone described the deaths of five Israeli civilians as 'routine'? The hypocrisy and cynicism is - as ever - breathtaking.
3

57Nomad,

california 16/01/2008 01:44:26
#1 Wally

Wally said:

"Israel has driven Hamas to violence. We were moving into a time-period when there was very little violence from the Palestinians, and Israel just had to keep pounding them."

Wally I was wondering if you read this part of the article that references Mr.Zahar "He is known to agree with the hardest of Hamas hardliners, who refuse to accept the existence of Israel."

Did you get that? He believes that Israel shouldn't exist. Is that what you mean by 'pushing Hamas to violence? You mean by existing, they are pushing on Hamas? Just existing. Because that's what Zahar believes. He believes that as long as the state of Israel exists then there is a state of war. The only way to placate them is for Israel to become extinct. In defending the butchers of Hamas you have joined them.











4

Wally,

By The Rivers Of Babylon (USA) 16/01/2008 02:52:31
King Nimrod in #3:

any casual observer can see that it is Israel who will not allow Palestine to exist freely, not the other way around.
5

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16/01/2008 04:47:58
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6

Dáithí,

San Jose 16/01/2008 04:56:47
#4 - Walleye

>"any casual observer can see that it is Israel who will not allow Palestine to exist freely, not the other way around. "

Sorry Walleye, wrong - again. Still.

They don't want Israel to exist. They invaded it the day it was created in 1949. They will continue to do so until it goes away.



7

Dáithí,

San Jose 16/01/2008 05:02:05
From the article:

"to bury the son of the Strip's most senior Hamas leader, killed alongside 18 other Palestinians in an Israeli incursion..."

Good riddance! Since these Hamas mercenaries would be strapping on bombs so that they could recieve their mercenary payment, obviously hundreds of innocent lives were saved by the actions of Israel.

Good job, Israel.
8

Finnking,

Lempäälä 16/01/2008 05:40:57
Nomad

So, if I deny the existence of God, will there be some moral justification for God to kill me?

If Ohio decides to go it alone ( ;-) ), and Washington simply denies that they are a valid nation, would Washington be morally justified in attacking them?

Just a thought.

Se on minä.

Daithi: Tell me, what's the difference between suicide bombs and Apache gunships? Is there some Technological Morality Scale that I don't know about?
9

Dáithí,

San Jose 16/01/2008 05:53:29
#8 - Finnking (or whoever you are)

">Daithi: Tell me, what's the difference between suicide bombs and Apache gunships? Is there some Technological Morality Scale that I don't know about?"

I'm guessing that there is a lot that you don't know about.

Bombers target civilians. Apache helicopters target bombers.

Unfortunately, the bombers hide behind civilians - or claim to be civilians when they are shot.

If you run into amy more moral dilemmas that exceed your grasp, feel free to seek my assistance again.

10

St. Helena,

Peebles 16/01/2008 06:26:23
And they say there is no Santa Claus.
11

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16/01/2008 07:05:00
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St. Helena,

Peebles 16/01/2008 07:22:12
#11 - 'He (Bush) is no better than Saddam Hussein was'.

How breathtakingly stupid of you.
13

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16/01/2008 07:55:27
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14

SMG,

Beit Shemesh, Israel 16/01/2008 07:55:35
FrancesP: "Can you imagine the fury in Israel if anyone described the deaths of five Israeli civilians as 'routine'? The hypocrisy and cynicism is - as ever - breathtaking."

Sure, I can imagine the fury. For many Palestinians, the deaths of Israeli civilians are not only "routine" but are cause for great celebration. OK, so it is infuriating. And, no doubt, various statements from IDF spokespeople such as the one quoted in this article infuriate Palestinians. Where is the breathtaking hypocrisy and cynicism in this?

thewitness: "Zionism is a mental ilness."

Life is a sexually transmitted disease, and it's always fatal.

Finnking: "So, if I deny the existence of God, will there be some moral justification for God to kill me?"

Wrong analogy, and bringing God into the picture complicates things. Why compare one side or another to God? Why get into questions about what "moral justification" even means with respect to God's power over life and death?

If is really very simple: If you are trying to kill someone, that someone is morally justified to kill you in self-defence.
15

oder,

Scotland 16/01/2008 08:14:24
Wally *1

"Israel has driven Hamas to violence"


"Mr Zahar yesterday accused the moderate Mr Abbas of complicity in his son's death for negotiating with Israel.

wrong Wally! Israel`s only crime is to exist!
16

ImSparticus,

Fife 16/01/2008 08:16:57
Those `Jews who choose to be Zionist... Indeed they are a danger to World Peace
We Need to be Rid of the Trouble makers.
17

ddmc,

16/01/2008 08:20:40
#6 how can you invade your own country ?

#14 If is really very simple: If you are trying to kill someone, that someone is morally justified to kill you in self-defence. I suppose in your eyes it only works one way, who killed who first, by your statement Palestinians have that same moral right.

Israel created Hamas as a foil to Arafat's PLO & now they are in power (legally elected,without any electoral interference unlike Gee Boosh)Israel doesn't like it.

You can't have it all your own way, perhaps if your astounding hypocracy regarding nukes wasn't so obvious you might have gained international support over Iran.

Iran knows full well if they attack Israel with nukes they will become the biggest glob of Trinitite the world has ever seen. They may be anti-Israel but there not stupid.
18

malkster,

Scotland 16/01/2008 08:30:36
#17

Stupidity cannot be measured in your terms when talking about extremists. I would say it was stupid to blow yourself up at a bus stop. The reason we can never allow Iran to have nuclear weapons is that we cannot guarantee that one day somebody who tyhinks blowing themselves up at a bus stop is clever has the key.
19

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16/01/2008 08:32:59
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lielayer,

16/01/2008 08:49:31
The Zionist Occupation of Palestine: Old Facts, Cold Realities.

This article was written 55 years ago. What has changed since then?

http://www.albalagh.net/current_affairs/king_abdullah_palestine.shtml
21

ddmc,

16/01/2008 08:56:33
#17 fair point, but whats to stop any nuclear power doing so, if you want to really point fingers then G Bush is a raving loony i think most of us agree who wants a nuclear war, Israel has threatned to nuke anybody they percieve as an 'existencial (sp) threat' & Pakistan is on the verge of civil war, China for all it's recent steps forward is still a communist country, N.Korea is run by a meglomaniac, putin is determined to 'run' Russia in some form, Sarkorsky & Broon will follow the US regardless of what sh!te they get us into, India perhaps, who are you most scared off in starting a nuclear war ?
22

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16/01/2008 09:12:43
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malkster,

Scotland 16/01/2008 09:22:52
#21

None of the named countries generally harbour and or support people who think the epitomy of tactics is to kill yourself and take the target down with you. Self preservation has prevented anybody using Nuclear weapons in anger since 1945. The problem with places like Iran is that some idiot would actually consider it a fair swap to lose half his country in exchange for the complete destruction of Israel.
24

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16/01/2008 09:24:15
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anti--Hun,

Fortress Ibrox...ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha 16/01/2008 09:44:22
Israel is an oasis surrounded by a sea of vipers...what do you people expect them to do. Thank God for Israel. One day when the Iranians produce their bomb, Israel will do what the west have no stomach to do and that's wipe these cretins off the face of the earth
26

ddmc,

16/01/2008 11:26:54
C'mon Malkster, why are Iranians classed as extremest's and not the other countries i mention, Israel's desire to remove palistine from the map is extreme, the USA has invaded more countries than anyone else since WW2 ended, thats extreme, pakistan & india were alledgedly 1 hour away from launching, thats extreme, China & russia don't have great human rights protection thats extreme etc etc etc, there is no proof that Iran would attack anyone, thats just spin like the 'wipe' Israel off the map quote which was translated for our benefit by an Israeli organisation, where the correct translation was remove from the pages of history, a big difference.

I don't have an issue with Israel 'protecting itself' but they provoke as much as Hamas/fatah etc. Hamas has agreed to recognise Israel if Israel recognise palistine on the original agreed borders not the extra land they assumed after 67'. Seems like a fair deal but Israel refuse to acknowledge palistine.

#26 troll
27

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16/01/2008 12:33:18
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16/01/2008 12:38:09
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Number 6,

Germany 16/01/2008 14:59:09
As I predicted to howls of derision from the yeehas and their surrogate sons, no sooner was the ink on a piece deal that Israel immediatley launches attacks, announces more settlements etc etc. It's now getting out of hand and something has to be done to stop them slaughtering the entire population of gazza.

I saw adocumentary thet showed you the intensive care unit of a children's hospital. Viewers watched in horror as the horrendous israelies turned off the power again to the region , knowing dam well that people, including new born babies would die as a result. What a dreadful race of people who don't deserve a minutes peace with these actions.

They should feel ashamed to the core but of course they don't.
30

Number 6,

Germany 16/01/2008 15:02:08
#25 Dragonbrain .And there are now more than 31/2 thousand less americans slaughtering civillians in Iraq, not to mention the hundreds of thousands who are no longer the men they were, now missing a limb or 2 , not to mention their sanity. You see, it works both ways.
31

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16/01/2008 15:20:55
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32

Wally,

By The Rivers Of Babylon (USA) 16/01/2008 15:22:00
Number 6 in 30 & 31:

since the Annapolis peace meeting the Israelis have actually increased the rate at which they kill Palestinians. If they keep this up it may not be merely 1 per day that they kill, but 2 per day.

The Palestinians seem to have increased their violence as well, but as they were killing at less than 1 per month it is a small up--tick by comparison.

The result of the peace meetings the last couple months are that now anyone who pays attention knows that for the Israelis 'peace initiatives' are merely public relations ploys. They've made it clear that they're going to continue with the illegal settlements, they're going to continue the economic persecution and the violence.

It is also clearly demonstrated that all the Israelis have to do is go through the motions and many will believe that they're trying their best to achieve peace.
33

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16/01/2008 15:27:10
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34

FrancesP,

16/01/2008 15:29:53
#14. "For many Palestinians, the deaths of Israeli civilians are not only 'routine' but are cause for great celebration." This statement is a contradiction in terms - nothing that is 'routine' would ever be a cause for 'great celebration'. It would instead be the cause of a mere shrug of the shoulders, the standard reponse in Israel to the death of Palestinian civilians.

By the way, the celebration of an innocent death is absolutely repugnant. But is it any less disgusting to kill scores of civilians and barely even notice it, as if those lives were worthless, as if they weren't quite as human as you are? Just how many Palestinians have to die before it counts for as much as one Israeli death? Five? Twenty? A hundred?
35

Wally,

By The Rivers Of Babylon (USA) 16/01/2008 15:30:36
FinnKing - it makes no sense to me why those comments were removed. It is also is very puzzling how someone is able to post with my exact screen name of 'Wally'. and the same has happened to several other posters. Why is this? The software is not secure? The passwords & e-mails are being acquired from the inside of Scotsman computer system? something smells bad about it.

maybe someone doesn't want us to participate.
36

Dáithí,

San Jose 16/01/2008 15:31:50
#11 - Ciderman

>"Your attempts at snide putdowns do not change the fact that Israel is engaged in genocidal actions against the Palestininians. "

Fristly, it wasn't an 'attempted' snide put-down, it was an actual, successful snide put down.

Secondly, Israel is a state that is recognized by the UN. If you don't like the UN, campaign to get out of it.

Thirdly, Israel is attempting to eradicate suicide bombers. Until the Palestinians police themselves to remove these religious mercenaries then Israel will have to do it for them.

As I said in post #1, good riddance.
37

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16/01/2008 16:04:12
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38

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16/01/2008 16:04:31
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16/01/2008 16:07:54
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40

Wally,

By The Rivers Of Babylon (USA) 16/01/2008 16:15:24
40 FinnKing - so screen names don't have to be unique. That's a new twist. I don't know of any other discussion forums that have innovated in that manner.
41

Dáithí,

San Jose 16/01/2008 16:25:07
#39 - thewitness

>"The UN is a criminal network..."

OK, then why should Israel do what they command?

>"a sickness and a pushover for the Zionists"

Then why would they pass '70 resolutions' against Israel if they are 'a pushover for the Zionists?'

As usual, your own statements conflict with each other.
42

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16/01/2008 16:27:49
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Dáithí,

San Jose 16/01/2008 16:30:20
#38 - finnking

>"It defies belief that there are people today who still think in terms of "left" and "right" without taking into account the "authoritarian" versus "libertarian" axis."

Exactly! That's why, when I first started posting here I recommended a site called 'The Political Compass' at

http://www.politicalcompass.org/

I an in the centerline on the left/right axis and one line towards the libertarian side.

Take the test, you might be surprised how you do.
44

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16/01/2008 16:35:09
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16/01/2008 16:39:55
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16/01/2008 16:49:55
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47

Abu Nudnik,

Canada 16/01/2008 16:52:24
As Paul Landau states, "Hamas is a radical Islamic movement whose worldview is marked by an Islamic eschatology in which the Jews occupy a central place. Its apocalyptic vision of a final confrontation with Israel excludes every possibility of coexistence or “moderation.” This vision is identical with that of the most radical Jihadist movements.

"Far from being merely an epiphenomenon, the anti-Semitism of Hamas constitutes the very core of its political-religious doctrine. The hatred of Jews expressed in the Hamas Charter and conveyed in the discourse of its officials is not simply a religious anti-Judaism or an imported anti-Semitism of European origins. It is, as the French scholar of anti-Semitism Pierre-André Taguieff has put it in his book “La nouvelle judéophobie,” a “millenarian and redemptive anti-Semitism.” Taguieff compares radical Islamic Judeophobia — in terms of which “the Muslim world can only be saved by the extermination of the Jews” — to the racist anti-Semitism of Hitler."

So before Wally suggests Israel has driven Hamas to violence (!) he ought to read Hamas's Charter. Here's where: http://www.palestinecenter.org/cpap/documents/charter.html
48

Wally,

By The Rivers Of Babylon (USA) 16/01/2008 17:06:39
one can make all sorts of ideological arguments against either Hamas or the Zionists. Let's not forget that Protocols of Zion document. But I suggest that sane people should look at the actions of these parties and not focus so much on what somebody says is their ideology.

The facts are that since 2000 the level of violence committed by the Palestinians towards the Israelis has declined very very dramatically. Only in the last 1-2 months does it seem that the Palestinians have increased that very low level of violence. and even with this increase the palestinian violence does not come anywhere near the quantity of Israeli violence against the Palestinians. The Israelis routinely kill Palestinians, they arrest them, they prevent their economy from functioning, etc., the persecution from Israel is enormous. We should focus on that and not worry so much about what someone says the Hamas ideology is.

Did Hamas arrange for warfare between Israeli political parties? No, but the state of Israel did funnel money & weaponry to Fatah who warred on Hamas. The conflict has become extremely one-sided. and yet the Palestinians who are the victims of almost all of the violence & persecution are still blamed. this is insane.
49

Abu Nudnik,

16/01/2008 17:15:53
The Protocols of the Elders of Zion was a FORGERY, you IDIOT!
50

boudica,

Glasgow 16/01/2008 17:16:37
Abu-Nudnik....It is of no use telling these haters of The Jewish people they do not want the Truth or Facts they prefer to Blame the Jewish people for all the Woes of the World and you are right again the Muslim Extremists hold Hitler in High regard for his mistreatment of the jewish people and the Islamo Nazi`s dogs of today will go the same way the Nazi`s went ..it took the World a longtime to realise how dangerous Hitlers was but he was brought down and so will this pack of Dogs..
51

Abu Nudnik,

16/01/2008 17:29:52
Not only do they admire Hitler, they conspired with him. Mohammad Amin al-Husayni, the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem helped create the Bosnian SS and wrote Hitler and Mussolini asking their blessing for a "final solution" to Palestine's Jewish "problem." This was the man who was to be the leader of the new Palestine. The Jews who had escaped Hitler were now to live under this man without the foundation of a self-defending state. Anti-Semitism is the REASON for the necessity for the founding of the state of Israel. thanks, Boudica. You're right. Jew-haters seek only that news that cements their prejudices.
52

Wally,

By The Rivers Of Babylon (USA) 16/01/2008 17:32:50
an Israeli human rights group measures the number of deaths on each side due to this conflict. About 4-6 months ago they released a statement saying that in the 12-month period ended shortly before their statement the Israelis had killed 457 Palestinians and the Palestinians had killed 10 Israelis. Since this time the level of violence committed by both sides has up-ticked slightly. But the Israelis build settlements in the Palestinian land. The Palestinians do not build settlements in the Israeli's land. The Israelis took the tax revenue of the Palestinian government and then give it to the opposition party which then waged war against the majority Hamas who won the election. The Palestinians do not interfere in Israeli business like that. The Israelis have arrested thousands and thousands of Palestinians, we sometimes read that 11,000 are imprisoned. and many have no real charges against them, it is merely a political arrest. About half the elected lawmakers of Palestine have been arrested. Many leading Palestinian officials have been murdered by the Israeli government, sometimes with their families being murdered too. The Palestinians do none of this to the Israelis. The Israelis use all manner of methods to make economic harassment. They don't allow critical items to be imported to palestine and thus the palestinian economy is destroyed. There are economic sanctions against the occupied Palestinian territory that stop medicines from being imported. The persecution the Palestinians face is horrific.

and we read on these pages that it is all justified because of adolph hitler apparently. when in reality there is no excuse.
53

Dáithí,

San Jose 16/01/2008 17:38:58
#47 - Walleye

>"Everyone please note that Datey is the one promoting xxxx as he is the one making it an issue.

I named no site. You name it twice, to make sure that readers got it right.

>"Datey listed about 10 screen names from there and asserted that they are all lefties."

I made no such assertion either, show me where I did.

I merely pointed out that the names that are there have been cloned here, with the exception of you, and that the listowner there has motivation, as well as a history, of trying to disrupt things here.
54

Wally,

By The Rivers Of Babylon (USA) 16/01/2008 17:50:56
Datey, you promoted that web site by raising the issue, not just once but repeatedly and not merely on this thread. You said above that they disrupt this site because they're lefties, perhaps that was a comment that was removed.
55

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16/01/2008 17:52:31
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Wally,

By The Rivers Of Babylon (USA) 16/01/2008 17:59:54
we see more of the hitler-cult ideology in 52 from AbuLudnik. a Palestinian leader wrote a friendly letter to Hitler and cooperated in some manner back during WW2. and so this allegedly justifies the Israeli hatred of Palestinians that fuels the endless war against them. and anyone who criticizes the endless war is to be labeled a jew-hater. but Ghandi of India also wrote a friendly letter to Hitler during the war and said positive things about the ethnic cleansing policy against Jews. Would the AbuLudniks of the world now call for war on India as a result? There were Americans & Brits who worked on the side of the NAZIs as well. One recalls that President Bush's grandfather was arrested in October, 1942 for helping the NAZIs.

Why is it that some people do not forgive? EVER???!??? Why is it that some people don't just automatically wake up in the morning and seek peace instead of war? You ask these people why it is that they still favor killing Palestinians every day and they talk about unrelated things from 65 years ago. and then they say you ask them this question because you hate jews.
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16/01/2008 18:01:19
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16/01/2008 18:05:37
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Andrew Allan,

16/01/2008 18:27:01
Unfortunately the saying he who lives by the sword, dies by the sword maybe seen as being apt here, I say unfortunately as even though neither side here is anywhere near being innocent, life is worth far more than these people have been treating it.
60

Dáithí,

San Jose 16/01/2008 18:38:03
#56 - Ciderman

>"We get people like you on here everytime there is criticism of Israel"

Yep.

It's called 'free speech', apparently you have a problem with it?
61

Dáithí,

San Jose 16/01/2008 18:39:34
#55 - Walleye (or whomever)

>"You said above that they disrupt this site because they're lefties, perhaps that was a comment that was removed."

Perhaps the comment never existed.
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16/01/2008 18:41:21
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16/01/2008 18:47:04
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Dáithí,

San Jose 16/01/2008 18:56:38
#64 - Ciderman

>"Where do my comments say I have a problem with "free speech?" "

When you complain about me posting.
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16/01/2008 19:13:32
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Dáithí,

San Jose 16/01/2008 19:24:57
#66 - Ciderman

>"where democracy and "free speech" are the norm."

Really? then waht was the point of your sentence "We get people like you on here everytime there is criticism of Israel" if not to protest that 'people like me' get on and post items disagreeable to you?

>"You cannot repudiate any of these posts, you do not attempt to, because what is posted is true; and you know that.

Sure I can. They are wrong. Let's try now:

#11 - Israel is engaged in genocidal actions against the Palestininians.

Nope. They are rightfully protecting themselves against Palestinian mercenaries who expect payment on virgins.

#56 - "We know that nauseating people like you are apologists for the unspeakable acts"

Typical hater, you have to call people names. Self-defense is not 'unspeakable acts'.

#58 - hard to argue here when you state that it was a 'forgery'. You were proven wrong.

>"If I lived in Gaza your masters would attempt to silence via the Israeli death machine".

No, we'd attempt to take your bomb from you before you hurt yourself. You'll have to earn your virgins the old fashioned way.
67

lielayer,

16/01/2008 19:32:20
The Jewish identity in the future appears bleak. Any nation that remains anchored to the past is unable to move ahead and, especially a nation that believes its survival can only be ensured by weapons and bombs.

We have created a culture of violence (Israel and the Jews are the biggest players) and that Culture of Violence is eventually going to destroy humanity.

Arun Gandhi - President and co-founder of the M.K. Gandhi Institute for Nonviolence.

http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/arun_gandhi/2008/01/jewish_identity_in_the_past.html
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16/01/2008 19:50:42
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57Nomad,

16/01/2008 20:03:30
#8 Finnking

Finnking asks:

"So, if I deny the existence of God, will there be some moral justification for God to kill me?

If Ohio decides to go it alone ( ;-) ), and Washington simply denies that they are a valid nation, would Washington be morally justified in attacking them?

In what way is the statement your first paragraph analogous to the situation under discussion? For it to be germane, you would have to have the ability to kill God. You see, Hamas has the ability to kill Israelis. For the sake of discussion let's stipulate that you did have the ability to kill God and you made it plain to one and all that you intended to do just that. By adding this proviso your analogy is now apropos. But you won't like the conclusion because in that case God would certainly have cause to kill you first, before you carried out your threat.

As for Ohio going it alone, once again you seem to misread reality. It's already been tried. It's called the American Civil War. Yes, the Federal government would have every right, in fact a duty to secure Ohio, and by force if necessary.
70

,

16/01/2008 20:31:40
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American,

16/01/2008 20:32:48
You go Israel!!
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,

16/01/2008 20:47:32
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Chaya,

Israel 16/01/2008 20:51:48
Amazing!!! There is absolutely no mention of the barrage of 40 rockets that fell on Israel and wounded people!!! Do you think we strike these terrorists for fun??? And - yes - we try to strike only the terrorists!! These terrorists have been shooting rockets at Sderot and environs for the past seven years!!! SEVEN YEARS!! And we left Gaza!! We left Gaza something like two years ago and they continue to shoot rockets at us!!! We left them hothouses which they dismantled in order to build tunnels underneath to bring in weapons!! Hamas is no different than Al-Queda!! And the only difference between Hamas and Fatah is Fatah is more secular and they differ in tactics not goals.
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16/01/2008 20:58:43
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Wally,

By The Rivers Of Babylon (USA) 16/01/2008 22:07:33
Chaya's comment in 74 is comical. We know that 5 Israelis were injured recently from the rockets. But The Israelis kill Palestinians every day and this has been going on for years. Palestinian hospitals in Gaza at least don't even have basic medicines to treat patients thanks to the Israeli schemes. Palestinians die every day not just from the Israeli troops killing them, but also from the economic disruptions including the prohibition of medical supplies that are imposed by Israel.

There are many accounts of Israeli soldiers destroying Palestinian businesses, destroying as in ransacking the offices, destroying files, furniture, machinery, inventory, etc. The Israelis do it for fun. Typical Palestinians must wait in line 2 hours at a checkpoint just to go to a market, and then 2 hours more to come home. The same is true when they go to work, to school, to visit people, etc. Their whole nation is paralyzed by these things. and we are lectured that we should be knowledgeable of the 5 Israelis allegedly injured.

Judgement is coming.
76

Chaya,

Eretz Yisrael 16/01/2008 22:08:57
Ciderman - if that is what you think, then you are delusional. You are a victim of the extreme left wing's propaganda against Israel. If you think of yourself as an intelligent being, then I suggest you find out what is really going on instead of getting your information from extreme left and anti-Semitic web sites. You are so incredibly wrong. How dare you judge us without knowing the real facts!!
77

American,

16/01/2008 22:16:38
#77-chaya-try not to take offense at what some of these terrorist sympathizers post. And yes, they do listen to left-wing propaganda. BTW-Wally from (USA) is probably really not from the USA. He's probably just someone typing from his mosque.
78

Wally,

By The Rivers Of Babylon (USA) 16/01/2008 22:20:58
Back in 2000 & 2001 there were suicide bombers regularly against Israel. They tended to blow themselves up among the minority arab-Israelis rathern than euro-Israelis. But the frequency of these events have declined dramatically. I think maybe there was one suicide bombing in Israel by a Palestinian in the last 2 years. The Israelis today who die in this conflict are generally randomly killed civilians victims of the rockets. The rockets are sent to Israel very regularly, but over 95% of the time hit nothing.

When you actually look at the killings of Palestinians by Israelis, then yes it is evident that many of them are done out of pure hatred, it is reasonable to think possibly the Israelis have fun doing this. There are documented cases of Israeli soldiers stalking and then killing Palestinian children simply out of a strong desire to do so. In one case an Israeli soldier testified that they knew one soldier among them was insane and that he would kill Palestinians if he could, then he did kill a Palestinian child, regardless he was not found guilty in the trial though all evidence showed he did murder.

So it is now, the Israelis are growing very comfortable in their abuse of the Palestinians. But they need for the Palestinians to attack Israel sometimes in order to justify the constant persecution of Palestinians.

The whole thing doesn't make sense in that the Israeli's efforts would be so much better spent in a different direction. But it doesn't matter to the Israelis, it is a pathology that drives them. just like the American soldiers who have learned to love killing arabs - it is a pathology. not to say that evil does not drive this pathology.
79

Chaya,

16/01/2008 22:33:17
Yes, his name is probably Walid. In any case, read the following written by an Iranian (non-Jew):

http://www.frontpagemag.com:80/GoPostal/commentdetail.aspx?GUID=1598104e-1586-4cef-9a11-4e12fee429ad&commentID=f81dc050-a251-474f-b24a-3e37102334d6
80

57Nomad,

california 16/01/2008 22:51:31
#79 Wally

Wally said:

"Back in 2000 & 2001 there were suicide bombers regularly against Israel. They tended to blow themselves up among the minority arab-Israelis rathern than euro-Israelis. But the frequency of these events have declined dramatically. I think maybe there was one suicide bombing in Israel by a Palestinian in the last 2 years."

The homicide bombings that took place in Israel during Intifada II, tailed off for one reason and it will give you and your cohorts apoplexy. I can't see into the future but if I had to guess this will set you guys sputtering with outrage. Maybe not, but I think so.

From 1999 to 2003 Saddam Husein gave the families of the killers checks for, at first, 15,000 dollars. And, by the way the checks were written is US dollars, the families being too shrewd to accept any of the local currency. Then, humanitarian that he is, a couple of years later he upped the payoffs to $25,000. During the intifada Saddam doled out over 10,000,000 dollars to the families of the bombers. Then, as if by magic, the flow of homicide bombers dried up noticeably, as you have pointed out.

Why do you think they could get all the homicide bombers they could handle prior to 2003 but very few after that date? Care to take a wild guess? Anything noteworthy happen at that time? Well? Anybody, anybody, Bueller?

No hands? Ok, I'll give you a hint. We invaded Iraq and deposed Saddam. That's what happened. Quite naturally, the payments to the 'martyr's' family quit coming in, what with Saddam hiding in a dirt hole, replaced by condolences from the local mullah.

Coincidence? You be the judge.
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16/01/2008 23:09:02
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Lynne,

USA 16/01/2008 23:20:21
Wally, you are the boil on the a** of human beings.
You spout utter garbage about who hates who and who kills with determination and hate.
Everyone knows the Palestinians want one thing..for Israel to vanish off the earth..of course with their help.
They have done suicide bombs, rockets, began wars, and failed. All in the name of hate. (read their charter).
Israel defnds itself. It will never sit by and and doing nothing. That is how 6 million perished. NEVER AGAIN. You say that Palestinians wait in line for hours at checkpoints to go shopping. Well, that is the
result of strapping on bombs. They have only themselves to blame.
83

Lynne,

USA 16/01/2008 23:22:55
the witless #80.. if everyone followed that plan, all of Hamas and Hezbollah would be lined up waiting for their turn to sit in the electric chair.
84

Wally,

By the Rivers Of Babylon (USA) 16/01/2008 23:32:54
thank you king Nimrod for that excellent response in #81. you may be correct in that the elimination of the Hussein government may have played a role. and I may not have figured that out either because I was assuming that the Palestinians had stopped doing those suicide bombings because they joined choirs and become choir-boys which is what they were before the Israelis attacked them.

But I do not think we should be fighting wars on behalf of Israel. and won't you agree with me that we shouldn't have helped Saddam to come to power in the first place.

My real thinking as to why the suicide bombings subsided is that I think Palestine is beaten up pretty bad by Israel. They were losing the war and so tried to quit. But Israel won't quit is my impression. Somewhere during this time the Israelis also completed their Great Wall of Israel. I think the wall should be built right on the border and keep the 2 peoples separate. I believe in a 2-state solution as well. However, unfortunately the wall does not sit on the border, it mostly meanders in the occupied Palestinian territory in such a manner as to prevent the Palestinians from travelling even within their own land. The Israelis have even built roads in oPt that are roads for Israelis only.

and I do not presume that the Palestinians are necessarilly behind all of these suicide bombings. The Israelis are quite capable of creating them so that the Palestinians can be blamed. They've done it before - Lavon Affair, Entebbe hijacking.
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16/01/2008 23:50:05
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SMG,

Beit Shemesh, Israel 16/01/2008 23:50:10
thewitness,

1) The Khazar theory for the origin of most Ashkenazi Jews has been thoroughly debunked on many grounds, and is not taken seriously anymore. The truth is that most Ashkenazi, Sefardi and Mizrachi Jews have a common origin in Israel.

2) The names Kagen and Kagan are Russian variations of the Hebrew name Kohen/Cohen/Kahn/etc., which means "priest". The Russian language lacks the "H" sound, so it is often rendered as a "G" instead. Likewise, the name Horowitz/Hurwitz/Hurevitz/etc. becomes Gorowitz/Gurwitz/Gurevitz/etc. in Russia.

"Kohen" (i.e., priest) is an ancient Hebrew word, going back long before the conversion to Judaism of Khazar nobility around the 8th Century.

The word you are thinking of -- khan -- means king, emperor, ruler, military leader, etc. in various Altaic (Turkic & Mongolian) languages, including the Khazar language.

I've seen some speculation about a possible very ancient connection between the Hebrew "kohen" and the Altaic "khan" but that is all it is -- speculation.
87

SMG,

Beit Shemesh, Israel 16/01/2008 23:54:53
thewitness,

Help me to understand. You seem to be saying that Jesus's god was someone named Lucifer.
88

Wally,

By The Rivers Of Babylon (USA) 17/01/2008 00:37:33
SMG in 88: you are not as stupid as you pretend. but let me give you some help from scripture. The story-line is that there was a rebellion among the jews against god.

"Jeremiah 11:9 And the LORD said unto me, A conspiracy is found among the men of Judah, and among the inhabitants of Jerusalem.

Jeremiah 11:10 They are turned back to the iniquities of their forefathers, which refused to hear my words; and they went after other gods to serve them: the house of Israel and the house of Judah have broken my covenant which I made with their fathers."

Jeremiah is scripture that is jewish in origin, written several centuries before jesus. Note how the jewish prophet did say that the jews were rebelling against god and that the covenant was broken by the jews.

and here is christian scripture, jesus' favorite disciple named John had a vision where jesus came to him and said the following.

"Rev 2:9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and [I know] the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but [are] the synagogue of Satan."

So what TheWitness was saying that some people believe the jews serve satan is something that does have backing in both jewish & christian scripture. Some believe that an elite group of rabbis have dedicated themselves secretly to satan. and to be honest some believe that the same conspiracy exists among portions of the christians.

For further study here is a web site put up by a non-practicing Canadian jew named Henry Makow. He monitors these ideas.

http://savethemales.ca/

and here is a site put up by Brother Nathaniel, an orthodox jew who converted to christ.

http://www.realjewnews.com/?p=110


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17/01/2008 00:44:51
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17/01/2008 00:52:45
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Mine's an 80 bob,

17/01/2008 01:19:38
:-

\\\\\\\\ Dáithí ////////
92

SMG,

Beit Shemesh, Israel 17/01/2008 02:11:08
Thanks for helping me out, Wally. I think I have it straight now. Jesus was a Jew, so I guess you think he worshipped Lucifer. Or is it Satan? Are these the same according to your mythology? In any case, he must have been a member of, what did you call it? The Synagogue of Satan? Temple Beth Lucifer?

More questions: Does your hero, Daniel Barenboim, believe in Lucifer? Does Lucifer believe in Daniel Barenboim?
93

Lynne,

USA 17/01/2008 02:35:07
Wally, was Idi Amin on the Entebbe affair? How much did Israel pay him to hold the hostages? You are totally off the wall.
94

Lynne,

USA 17/01/2008 02:38:39
the witness.. that would make Jesus a follower of Lucifer.
#86..most Jews consider Jesus a nice Jewish boy..
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17/01/2008 03:29:11
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Dáithí,

San Jose 17/01/2008 05:53:19
#89 - Walleye

A bible spouting leftist?? Hardly.
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Chaya,

17/01/2008 07:01:01
This is what has happened this morning! You will not hear about this on your MSM!

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3495363,00.html

They are aiming towards civilian centers!! This is a war crime!! But people who throw their fellow Muslim enemies off of roofs and kill them in the streets in front of their families doesn't care about that.
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17/01/2008 11:34:46
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Calev,

London 17/01/2008 11:57:44
More than 100 rockets and mortars were fired from the Gaza Strip at communities in southern Israel on January 15/16, most of them targeting Sderot, a town of 20,000 civilians. At least 10 people, including a 5-year-old girl, sustained shrapnel wounds. Over 182,000 citizens of Israel live under the threat of Qassam rocket attacks. Since 2001, the western Negev region has endured over 6,000 Qassam rockets launched from Gaza. Since Hamas took over the Gaza Strip, in June 2007, 428 missiles and 590 mortar bombs have been fired at Israeli cities.

Given the almost constant rocket attacks from Gaza, aimed specifically at civilians, Israel has shown remarkable restraint. The terrorist groups in Gaza deliberately launch attacks from urban areas, including schools, effectively using their own civilian population as human shields. Israel uses high technology to launch pinpoint attacks on the terrorists and avoid the civilians. At tremendous personal risk, Israeli troops enter Gaza to try to arrest – and, if necessary, kill – terrorists. Unfortunately, civilians still get hurt. Yet, the overwhelming majority of Palestinian deaths are of armed terrorists. The overwhelming majority of Israeli casualties are civilians.
100

Landman,

17/01/2008 15:21:57
Scotsman, #99 is a troll from the freehootsman site that has been causing problems here lately with his co founder Mine's an 80 bob.
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FrancesP,

17/01/2008 15:33:52
#100. "Yet, the overwhelming majority of Palestinian deaths are of armed terrorists." A more accurate way of putting it would be that Israel CLAIMS the overwhelming majority of Palestinian deaths are of armed terrorists. That, sadly, does not tell us very much at all.

What you could have said with complete certainty is that the overwhelming majority of civilian deaths in the conflict are Palestinian, not Israeli. It's undoubtedly true that Hamas are trying to kill innocent Israelis on a regular basis - it's just that they're not very successful in their efforts. The Israeli military, by contrast, are terrifyingly efficient in killing innocent Palestinians.
102

Dáithí,

San Jose 17/01/2008 16:54:29
#57 - Walleye

>"a Palestinian leader wrote a friendly letter to Hitler and cooperated in some manner back during WW2."

Here's where you generally blow your imaginary credibility, Walleye. Here's a link explaining the relationship that the Grand Mufti had with Hitler and the Reich.

http://www.palestinefacts.org/pf_mandate_during_ww2.php

You HAVE to dismiss this as 'writing a friendly letter' because you can't face the truth.
103

Dáithí,

San Jose 17/01/2008 16:58:57
Continued...

from the link:

http://www.palestinefacts.org/pf_mandate_during_ww2.php

Once in Berlin, the Mufti received an enthusiastic reception by the "Islamische Zentralinstitut" and the whole Islamic community of Germany, which welcomed him as the "Führer of the Arabic world."

In an introductory speech, he called the Jews the "most fierce enemies of the Muslims" and an "ever corruptive element" in the world.

Husseini soon became an honored guest of the Nazi leadership and met on several occasions with Hitler. He personally lobbied the Führer against the plan to let Jews leave Hungary, fearing they would immigrate to Palestine. He also strongly intervened when Adolf Eichman tried to cut a deal with the British government to exchange German POWs for 5000 Jewish children who also could have fled to Palestine.

The Mufti's protests with the SS were successful, as the children were sent to death camps in Poland instead.

(Sounds like you kind of guy, Walleye)

One German officer noted in his journals that the Mufti would liked to have seen the Jews "preferably all killed." On a visit to Auschwitz, he reportedly admonished the guards running the gas chambers to work more diligently.

Throughout the war, he appeared regularly on German radio broadcasts to the Middle East, preaching his pro-Nazi, anti-Semitic message to the Arab masses back home.

This is what Walleye considers 'Writing a friendly letter and cooperating in some manner'.
104

Dáithí,

San Jose 17/01/2008 17:13:18
#100 - Calev

>"Given the almost constant rocket attacks from Gaza, aimed specifically at civilians, Israel has shown remarkable restraint."

Yes they have. Calev, you are 100% correct.

>"The terrorist groups in Gaza deliberately launch attacks from urban areas, including schools, effectively using their own civilian population as human shields"

Yes, they do. Walleye, Thewitness and lielayer can all learn a lot from the truth of your statements.

>"Yet, the overwhelming majority of Palestinian deaths are of armed terrorists. The overwhelming majority of Israeli casualties are civilians."

Truths that the anti-Jewish crowd dare not face. I'm sure that they will dismiss this as it does not feed their hysterical anti-Jewish conspiracy theories.

105

Dáithí,

San Jose 17/01/2008 17:31:14
#56 - Ciderman

>"You are right it was a forgery. But, it looks like a lot of people in the Israel hierarchy thought it was good idea."

So you were wrong - but you want to claim that you were right anyway?

What a vacant way to make an argument.
106

Dáithí,

San Jose 17/01/2008 17:36:57
#102 - Francis

>"A more accurate way of putting it would be that Israel CLAIMS the overwhelming majority of Palestinian deaths are of armed terrorists. That, sadly, does not tell us very much at all."

Well, if you were to look at the article, you'd see that "Hamas immediately stepped up its involvement in the daily barrage of rocket and mortar fire on southern Israel."

"The daily barrage"?? As is to be expected, for some reason you guys seem to miss this...

Then you are upset because Israel strikes back by killing the son (and personal bodyguard) of the leader of Hamas, obviously a prime military target.

They didn't know that they got him - good luck for them, eh?

What hypocrites you guys are.
107

Wally,

By The Rivers Of Babylon (USA) 17/01/2008 17:41:30
Datey Datey Datey ...

We should set aside our hatreds. We should recognize that evil wells up out of the human heart. and we should put it aside if at all possible. We should forgive. But it is true that we should also not forget. It is worthwhile & reasonable to learn about the Grand Mufti's history. But we should not look at that history in complete isolation of all other history for the sake of promoting a narrow ideological view such as your zionism.

The facts are that there were many people who cooperated with the NAZIs and actively worked towards the NAZI goals. As I said above, this included the president's grandfather who was Prescott Bush. and it included many other people as well. Some will argue that Bush's cooperation was just business. Even though some of that cooperation occurred during a time of war. When you're actively looking for industrial diamonds to secretly export to Germany so that they can manufacture weaponry to kill your own country-men, then I'd say that is not a reasonable thing to do. and Prescott Bush did that as well as launder money for the NAZIs and help support their American operations DURING THE WAR. So my argument that many people cooperated with the NAZIs is very true.

The Albanians were strong NAZI allies while the Serbians opposed the NAZIs, yet in modern times the US sides with Albanians and against Serbs.

One of the political groups in Europe that did support the NAZIs was the Zionist movement. A european jew published a book 3-4 years ago documenting that the zionists published written material and appeared in public speeches to actually promote the NAZIs. The last time a zionist leader publicly supported the NAZis was in 1936 at a public speech.

For your benefit I've found you a paper on this subject.

http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v13/v13n4p29_Weber.html

Please note that it is extremely well-documented with footnotes.

You should not be so quick to hate. You should forgive. People mak
108

Wally,

By The Rivers Of Babylon (USA) 17/01/2008 17:45:47
continued...

You should not be so quick to hate. You should forgive. People make mistakes. People do bad things. And these people are very similar to you.

why do you focus on things that happened over 60 years ago? and use it to justify an ideology of hate? Can't the Israelis try to live in peace (for a change?)

haven't you ever heard anyone tell you 'enough already!'????

it comes down to one simple thing. You don't think that arab lives or perhaps even non-jewish lives are worth much. that is why you are so quick to justify unlimited violence by Israel against oPt and are only able to see whatever it was the Palestinians did even if it is over 60 years old.
109

Dáithí,

San Jose 17/01/2008 17:54:43
#108 and 109 - Walleye

>"People make mistakes"

So your pal, the Grand Mufti, merely made a 'mistake' when "He also strongly intervened when Adolf Eichman tried to cut a deal with the British government to exchange German POWs for 5000 Jewish children who also could have fled to Palestine."

Forgive and forget, a wee mistake - that's what Walleye says.

To Walleye, the mistake was that more Jewish children didn't go to the gas chambers. Wasn't the gas chambers a great way to keep these kids from emigrating to Palestine, Walleye?

Seek forgiveness for yourself, Walleye - I suggest that you turn to the Lord and confess, pleading for forgiveness for your ignorant and callous ways.

It's not too late.
110

Wally,

By The Rivers Of Babylon (USA) 17/01/2008 18:19:52
now Datey, your hatred really gets the best of you. I said forgive, but don't forget. you said I said forgive & forget.

you are like a totalitarian nazi who cannot tolerate anyone deviating from your ideology - which is zionism apparently or jewish supremacism.

You said that this fellow Grand Mufi is my friend. But I never addressed anything specific about him. I made general comments about people, and you attributed these to be specific comments about Grand Mufti.

You mention the deaths of some jewish children and tell me that I must conform to your thoughts as a result of this. But these 5,000 you mention were a very small portion of the total number of people killed in WW2. Even the total number of jewish people killed in WW2 is a small percentage of the total number of people killed in that war. Yet I have noticed that you don't count the non-jew deaths in your thinking. All meaning & significance for you is attributed to the jewish deaths. and none to the others.

In the early 1950's the Israeli government had a program where they gave experimental radiation treatment to arabic children living in Israel. But none of the European children living in Israel were given this experimental treatment. The children were gathered together, then separated by race. Then the arabic children were given radiation treatments. and about 100,000 of them died from this. These arabic children were mostly jews as well. If you were to apply your warped ideology in a fair manner, then you'd even hate Israel over this. That is why I tell you to forgive or else face further insanity eroding at you.

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17/01/2008 20:43:00
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Wally,

By The Rivers Of Babylon (USA) 17/01/2008 20:56:16
Lynne in 94:

recently an Israeli newspaper reported that a British intelligence analyst filed a report in 1976 shortly after the hijacking that said his information was that the Israelis themselves cooperated with the Palestinians to achieve the plane hijacking that led to the Entebbe incident. The Brit intel analyst said this was cone to discredit the palestinians.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/865937.html

and TheWitness is correct in his assertions in 112.
113

FrancesP,

17/01/2008 21:39:15
#107. First of all, I'm the female sort of Frances with an 'e', but that's an easy mistake to make.

"'The daily barrage'?? As is to be expected, for some reason you guys seem to miss this..."

Could you please explain to me how my post #102 in any way misses that point, given that I specifically said "it's undoubtedly true that Hamas are trying to kill innocent Israelis on a regular basis - it's just that they're not very successful in their efforts." Indeed, could you point out anything that is factually inaccurate in that statement? The trouble with the 'Israel can do no wrong' brigade is that they never seem to bother to listen to the words other people actually use, they just come back with the same stock responses regardless.
114

Dáithí,

San Jose 17/01/2008 21:55:09
#111 - Walleye

>"But these 5,000 you mention were a very small portion of the total number of people killed in WW2"

I grieve for every one, Jewish or not, and every death is significant. In your mind 5,000 children put in ovens is insignificant - when their lives could have been saved with a simple prisoner exchange.

So long Walleye, your 'final solution' didn't work when your pals the Grand Mufti and Hitler tried it, we're not buying it from keyboard Nazi's like and your Combat 18 pals here discussing their same old conspiracy theories.
115

SMG,

Beit Shemesh, Israel 17/01/2008 22:06:41
Lynne,

I wouldn't pay too much attention to Wally. My British, American, Palestinian, German, Ugandan, and Venusian intelligence sources tell me that he personally collaberated with the PFLP, the German Revolutionäre Zellen, Ugandan President Idi Amin Dada, and the Venusian Liberation Front, to create the Entebbe plane hijacking.

There, now we can say, with as much veracity as his comment, that the Britsh newspaper The Scotsman has published a report quoting British, American, Palestinian, German, Ugandan, and Venusian intelligence sources which say that he was personally involved in creating the Entebbe plane hijacking in 1976.

:)
116

Dáithí,

San Jose 17/01/2008 23:14:12
#116 - SMG

It's getting even better with Walleye, check out his comment #3 on this page:

http://news.scotsman.com/world/39Sex-in-public-toilet-.3681451.jp

He's exposed the old 'government officials recruit gays to pretend to be straight and then get elected so that they can be blackmailed by the party if need be' conspiracy.

It just gets better and better. We get this type of entertainment for free. ;)
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17/01/2008 23:26:17
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17/01/2008 23:44:32
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18/01/2008 01:06:20
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Dáithí,

San Jose 18/01/2008 02:23:46
#118 - thewitness

"How Odd that you say gas chambers and then you say ovens. How odd!"

Only you could concern yourself with nuances in my typing while missing the tragedy of 5,000 childrens' lives that could have been saved by a simple prisoner exchange.

"I don't expect you to understand the significance of your conflicting statements".

I don't expect you to understand much of anything, but I expect to see some diatribe that you'll post presuming either some sort of amatuerish psycobable or some sort of 'Nazi trivia' point that you assume will impress your Nazi trivia pals.

Jews were killed in gas chambers, their corpses were cremated in ovens. I'm correct in both statements.

Go ahead, let's see what goofy theory you'll come up with to explain whatever obtuse point you hope to make.
121

Wally,

By The Rivers Of Babylon (USA) 18/01/2008 03:20:34
Datey,

My goofy theory is that you are a nut who has gotten very angry on this thread and shown to us that your real theology is jewish supremacism. I know you've professed to us repeatedly that you grieve for all of the people killed in WW2, but the logical flow of your mind indicates that the only people you really care about are the jews. The others don't register with you. You demand that everyone accept your jewish supremacist ideology/theology and if they don't you relentlessly accuse them of being NAZIs or terrorists or sympathizers to such.

I have read that the events of WW2 are very important to the mindset of jews. I have also read that the persecution of the Palestinians by Israel is equally important to the mindset of Palestinians. Both groups have their self-identity wrapped up in those events and have trouble thinking in any prism not dominated by those events.

For your own sanity & well-being you would do well to contemplate these things.

Jews are not a superior race. We are not obligated to worship you. And just because some jews were killed by some Germans 60+ years ago is not a reason for killing Palestinians today. And neither is it justified by the words of a Grand Mufi in those days either.

You should forgive and not hate. I did you a favor and did a google search for 'Brother Nathaniel'.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Brother+Nathaniel&btnG=Google+Search

He is a former jew who accepts Jesus as god. He has learned to forgive. If you e-mail him, then I'm sure he'll consult with you.
122

Wally,

By The Rivers Of Babylon (USA) 18/01/2008 03:29:19
Lynne in 95:

that is very nice. in the book of Romans it is laid out that the Kingdom of Heaven is available to all regardless of ethnic background. and also, that a sort of a punishment is available to all regardless of ethnic background. Here are some key verses on it.

"Romans 2:9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

Romans 2:10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:"

so we don't really care if Jesus was jewish. It doesn't matter to us. It didn't matter to Jesus either.

The important forces in this world are spiritual forces. and some of those spiritual forces are in rebellion to god. that is what the meaning of the word 'satan' is and the associated Lucifer as well.

123

Dáithí,

San Jose 18/01/2008 04:20:34
#122 - Walleye/thewitness

>"My goofy theory is that you are a nut who has gotten very angry on this thread and shown to us that your real theology is jewish supremacism."

1. Yes, your theory is goofy, as well as wrong.

2. BTW, YOUR theory? I thought that I was replying to 'thewitness' - can't quite keep your troll names straight, Walleye/thewitness?

Guys like you that trivialize murders like the Grand Mufti with statements like 'a Palestinian leader wrote a friendly letter to Hitler and cooperated in some manner back during WW2. (Post #57)'

Of course, you didn't get into specifics - because you don't understand the situation well enough to be able to cite them.

The preventable deaths of 5,000 children who were killed because your pal the Grand Mufti preferred that to a prisoner exchange - and you come up some lame 'he wrote a letter and cooperated in some manner'.

I'd be upset no matter what religion they were. You, on the other hand, merely want us to 'forgive and forget – as long as they were Jews, of course'.

>"You demand that everyone accept your jewish supremacist ideology/theology "

I know that it's useless to ask you to show where I made this statement as you are now busy cutting-and-pasting some more statements that will appear in three more long-winded clueless posts, hoping that your verbosity will cover for your lack of understanding of the situation.

It doesn't work. Your hero Goebbels tried the same thing - repeat a lie often enough and people will believe it.

You’ll give it a shot Walleye, it's the only way anyone would believe what you type.

Except for your tin-foil hat, of course.

I feel sorry for you, I only pray that God will forgive your foolishness. I'm sure that Jesus cries for you, but I'm afraid that even that may be too late.
124

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18/01/2008 04:29:36
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125

Dáithí,

San Jose 18/01/2008 04:37:23
This is a re-post of #42, a response to post #39; since apparently 'thewitness' has not been able to come up with a way to spin the clear contradictions in his thoughtless post:

#39 - thewitness

>"The UN is a criminal network..."

OK, then why should Israel do what they command?

>"a sickness and a pushover for the Zionists"

Then why would they pass '70 resolutions' against Israel if they are 'a pushover for the Zionists?'

As usual, your own statements conflict with each other.

OK thewitness, why do you avoid addressing these clear conflicts? Meds wear off? Tin foil hat in the cleaners?
126

Dáithí,

San Jose 18/01/2008 04:52:45
#125 - thewitness

>"there is a good book out about
the ADL called The Ugly Truth About The ADL, i must say the truth is very, very UGLY!"

http://www.iamthewitness.com/archive.
php?dir=books%2FExecutive.Intelligence.Review

Hahahaha! Let me get this straight 'thewitness', you refer us to a site called 'I am the Witness.com'?

YOUR computer?

Then you post some .pdf file that exposes the 'ugly truth about the ADL' - that looks like you and Walleye (or you and you) typed up last night?

Credibility is a completely foreign concept to you, eh?

Enough for tonight, you guys can post more KKK 'facts' and conspiracy theories without me here to impede the flow.

Knock yourselves out.
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18/01/2008 04:55:58
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18/01/2008 05:30:23
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SMG,

Beit Shemesh, Israel 18/01/2008 10:10:58
Dáithí, re #117, entertainment for free sounds good to me; after all, I'm a Jew, and like the Scots, we supposedly just love free sh*t :)

thewitness: "Why are these (Photos below) jews against Zionism?"

They represent Neturei Karta, a tiny minority of religious extremists. They are so extreme that they resort to all sorts of clownish acts to attract media attention, for example hanging out with Palestinian terrorist groups who use them as a kind of Jewish figleaf (though members of their group are targetted by the terrorist groups, just like the rest of us), and traveling to Iran to pay fealty to Ahmadinejad during his Holocaust-denial convention (though Neturei Karta does not deny the Holocaust).

While they certainly do believe in eventual Jewish sovereignty in Eretz Yisrael, they think that this can only happen in a messianic period. Before the coming of the messiah, they believe that Jews must not do anything active to end our exile.

Theirs is certainly not a majority position, even among the ultra-Orthodox. The mainstream position today among religious Jews (and by this, I mean across the board, including most ultra-Orthodox, modern Orthodox, Conservative, and Reform Jews) is that a) we are not obligated to remain a persecuted minority in the countries of our exile, and Zionism is not a rebellion against some sort of Divinely prescribed eternal suffering; b) while we look forward to a better world in a messianic age, we need not wait passively for it to happen to improve our condition; and c) we are obligated to do whatever we can to improve the world and help create the conditions that define this messianic ideal.

The anti-Zionist political beliefs of Neturei Karta, by the way, do not prevent them from living in Israel, and in fact a few thousand do.

thewitness: "How come these jews (above) look peaceful, respectful and spiritual"

What I see in the picture are some human beings standing next to each other. How you conclude from this that
130

SMG,

Beit Shemesh, Israle 18/01/2008 10:11:36
continued...

What I see in the picture are some human beings standing next to each other. How you conclude from this that they appear to be "peaceful, respectful and spiritual", I have no idea. They look about as peaceful, respectful and spiritual as any other ultra-Orthodox Jews, including the vast majority that absolutely despises this group and rejects their beliefs.

thewitness: "The Zionist leadership who look godless, guilty, hagered, like a mafia gang, from Eastern Europe?"

The difference is in your sick, twisted mind. The anti-Zionists from Neturei Karta look essentially identical to other ultra-Orthodox Jews, most of whom have far more positive views about Israel (including some who are extreme in the other direction) and want nothing to do with this bunch of idiots. While various Hassidic and anti-Hassidic ultra-Orthodox Jews wear slightly different clothes to differentiate among themselves, you wouldn't be able to tell them apart. Nor could you tell non-religious Zionist and anti-Jews Jews apart from each other, or from non-Jews, based on how they look.

What is it with you loony KKK neo-Nazi types and your hangups about how people look, anyway?
131

lielayer,

18/01/2008 10:50:33
130,131
SMG

As long as the vile behaviour of young settlers is allowed to continue unimpeded by Israeli authorities, peace will not be achieved

http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/seth_freedman/2008/01/the_cruelty_of_youths.html
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18/01/2008 15:45:51
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18/01/2008 16:06:54
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Wally,

By The Rivers Of Babylon (USA) 18/01/2008 16:55:15
I think that in the last week the Israelis have killed about 30 Palestinians. and the Palestinians have killed 0 Israelis. In retaliation the Israelis have shut all border crossings into Gaza. This means part of the food supply gone, it means further economic disruption. It means people will die due to lack of medical care.

I think this explains why SMG & Datey have taken to calling any opponents of Israel's policies either KKK or NAZI. When you're defending the indefensible you lash out with such accusations. I think this thread demonstrates the unfortunate fact that anyone who speaks the truth about Israel's policies and deeds is absolutely hated by the zionists.
135

Lynne,

USA 18/01/2008 22:39:54
Wally..as usual you are wrong.
The reasons for the closings are the constant rockets being launched into Israel.
The closings take place every Friday night for the Sabbath and reopen on Sunday. The closings will be reviewed on Sunday.
The UN has gone into Gaza, and the people who needed immediate medical care were passed through the checkpoints. Please read more than one source, especially here, because there are many facts left out of the information set out here.
Now, as the Defence Minister's spokesman has said

"It's time that Hamas decide to either fight or take care of its population," Shlomo Dror, a spokesman for the Israeli defence ministry, said. "It's unacceptable that people in [the southern Israeli town of] Sderot are living in fear every day and people in Gaza are living life as usual."
136

Wally,

By The Rivers Of Babylon (USA) 19/01/2008 00:09:07
Lynne, I'm glad most other people aren't as narrow-minded & one-dimensional as you and don't project that superior air that you do.

Everyone knows the border crossings were closed in response to the rockets launched from gaza to south israel. But zero people were killed by those rockets in the last week, yet the Israelis have killed many Palestinians. so my statement is perfectly accurate.

However, you are incorrect in saying that it is routine. On Fridays they normally close the border at noon. Today they did not allow it open in the morning and there were many food shipments scheduled for the morning that were turned back. Here is an article on it.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080118/ap_on_re_mi_ea/israel_palestinians

please note that the article I put up puts the death toll for just this week among the Palestinians at 34 including 10 civilians. While the Israeli death toll is 0.

The Palestinians have been launching those rockets for years and very regularly. They usually land in the country-side without damaging anything. The accuracy of their aim is something like within 1 mile.

I think the Palestinians should not fire the rockets, but as I understand it the Palestinian rocket attacks have increased tremendously in response to the Israeli violence which has increased markedly since the Annapolis peace talks where Israel promised to pursue peace.

What strikes me in this situation is that nobody is pursuing peace at all any more. I think the Palistinians were pursuing peace and certainly the level of violence from them has declined very dramatically the last 5 years. But the Israelis don't accept that decline and just keep right on with their persecutions even making them worse. and the Americans are continuing to give money to Israel who is the source of over 95% of the violence now. Nobody any more is pursuing peace.
137

57Nomad,

california 19/01/2008 02:30:28
#91 Witts

Witts said:

"#89 Wally
"Ye shall know them by their fruits" (Matt 7:16 )
Thanks, you are a great American."

You are in the ballpark but its not the ballpark where the games are played.

As for Wally, "Ye shall know him by his lightweight, reflective, tinfoil headgear," is the passage you are looking for.
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19/01/2008 02:45:00
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19/01/2008 02:53:29
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Lynne,

USA 19/01/2008 05:03:07
Wally, you sound like you would have been much happier had a good many Israelis been killed by those rockets. I did not say the closings too place because of the rocket attacks...what I said was that the closings take place on Fridays because of the Sabbath.
You are lying to people when you say nothing had gone thru, when the UN claims a UN car went in to check on children, and those who needed immediate mediacal care were allowed to leave.
Talk about one dimensional. You refuse to see that Israel is allowed to defend itself.
141

Wally,

By The Rivers Of Babylon (USA) 19/01/2008 14:31:47
Lynne, I put up an Associated Press article that said unlike the normal procedure the crossings were closed all day and 20 food trucks were turned back. Just because the Israelis say that the Palestinians have all the food they want doesn't mean anything. Facts from other sources indicate that they don't. and there is much evidence that a lot of people have died over the border closers & sanctions. The hospitals don't have basic necessities. Many patients die while waiting to get out and the Israeli bureaucracy is very cold-hearted about the situation, does not let them out.

We sometimes mention the death toll of Palestinians killed by the Israeli military, but the people who die due to the sanctions and border closings aren't even counted in that total.
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Wally,

By The Rivers Of Babylon (USA) 19/01/2008 14:42:22
that was a great come-back by King Nimrod in 138. Nimrod used to work in hollywood I think.

But TheWitness is correct on his basic points. There was a lot of money missing from the Department of Defense, it totaled in the trillions of dollars and it went missing over a 10-year period. The pentagon itself held a press conference admitting this on September 10, 2001. and then some of the accountants who forced the disclosure were killed on September 11, 2001 when an object slammed into their section of the pentagon. all that is simple fact. and I do not know that the money has been accounted for. Americans should be very troubled by this.

and he is correct also that the US gives too much money to Israel. We should not be funding the violence. We have many systems for funneling money to Israel and it is difficult to come up with a tally of it. He is also correct that we have Israelis working at inappropriate positions in our government. For example, Israelis were at Abu Ghraib teaching Americans how to abuse prisoners. We also have inappropriate influence going on at high levels of portions of our government bureaucracies.


143

57Nomad,

california 19/01/2008 16:04:48
#143 Wally

wally said:

"For example, Israelis were at Abu Ghraib teaching Americans how to abuse prisoners."


aaaaahh, HA! Now it all falls into place. Vicious Israeli operators, with expertise in the vile practice of hitting back, guys who really know how to dole out the pain, suggested something so hideous that even their lackey American stooges had never thought of. "Put," he said, evil flowing from every pore, "panties on their heads!"
144

SMG,

Beit Shemesh, Israel 19/01/2008 16:46:58
lielayer, you say that your 132 is in response to my 130 and 131, but I don't see any connection. It sounds like a non sequitur to me.

As for the content of your message, there is a long list of "as long as.... peace will not be achieved".

It would be more to the point and a better response to my 130 and 131 to say that as long as the vile behaviour of Neturei Karta members is allowed to continue unimpeded, peace will not be achieved. But actually, it's not true. Neturei Karta is so small that it is basically irrelevant. Peace can certainly be achieved even if they continue in their vile behavior, and they'll certainly continue even after peace is achieved.

Of course, I'm talking about peace with a small "p" -- an imperfect, incomplete human peace. One might say that a true, ultimate, ideal, utopian Peace requires that no one anywhere act in a vile manner toward anyone else. We're all in the same boat, and one person making a hole in his part of the boat -- whether in Iran or Scotland or Timbuktu -- could sink all of us.

As for the settler, I know plenty, young and old. They are pretty much like everyone else. Some indeed behave in a vile manner; more are tremendously good, ethical people of rare moral sensitivity; and most of them are like most of us -- somewhere in between.

The problem isn't so much how they behave as how their neighbors behave toward them. Ideally, there should problem with Jews living side by side with Arabs in Palestine or Israel or anywhere else. Ideally, everyone's rights would be respected everywhere, and it would thus make no difference if Arabs and Jews in the West Bank lived in a sovereign state called Palestine or Israel or whatever.
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SMG,

Beit Shemesh, Israel 19/01/2008 17:22:22
thewitness, re 133: "Theirs is certainly not a majority position."

thewitness, re 133: "Corerect, because the majority of Zionists are Ashkenazi from Khazaria, the behaviour is a dead giveaway!"

LMAO. thewitness, that is hilarious, because while Zionists are Ashkenazi, Mizrachi, Sefardi, Ethiopian, Indian, non-Jewish, etc. etc., Neturei Karta is 100% Ashkenazi!

In a sense, the majority of Zionists are not even Jews, but are the hundreds of millions of non-Jews throughout the world -- mostly Christians but also others -- who understand that Jews have as much right to self-determination in their homeland as anyone else has in theirs.

Putting non-Jewish Zionists aside, since most Jews are Ashkenazi, it follows that probably most Zionists are Ashkenazi. In Israel, the majority of the Jewish population has at times been Sefardi/Mizrachi, and at times, Ashkenazi. Currently, Ashkenazim are a small majority.

By the way, the whole "Ashkenazim are mostly from Khazaria" thing is a myth. Educate yourself so you don't sound so foolish.

And, regardless of where a community or ethnic group is from, ascribing particular behaviour to it based on this is, well, pretty much the definition of prejudice, bigotry and racism.

thewitnesss: "Try looking at their aura?"

You're gonna have to explain this whole "aura" thing.

thewitnesss: "The camera never lies!"

More weirdness from thewitness.

Are you willing to test your ability to pick out Zionists, anti-Zionists, Jews, non-Jews, etc. etc. based solely on their photographs?
146

SMG,

Beit Shemesh, Israel 19/01/2008 18:24:31
thewitness, you asked about F-16s for Israel. You offered no proof for this "80% discount" charge, but the link you provided to Dov Zakheim's biography describes how he was instrumental in keeping Israel dependent on the US by ending Israel's Lavi fighter jet program, which would have provided competition to the F16.

You also asked about $2.8 trillion missing from the Pentagon budget, and provided a link which says that Zakheim "was tasked to help track down the Pentagon's 2.6 trillion dollars ($2,600,000,000,000) worth of unaccounted transactions. He initiated a number of processes that led to the reduction of that sum by two-thirds by the time of his departure."

You should love this guy.

Wally: "SMG & Datey have taken to calling any opponents of Israel's policies either KKK or NAZI."

LOL. Wally, I am an opponent of some of Israel's policies. I imagine that Dáithí is, too. I would never call someone a Nazi just because he criticizes Israel or opposes some of its policies.
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57Nomad,

california 19/01/2008 19:32:51
#139 TW

TW said:

"Did the Americans ever find out what happened to the $2.8 Trillion missing from the Pentagon budget under comptroller Dov Zakheim,"

Dov was at DoD from 2001 thru 2004.

Here is the Pentagons budget for those years (in billions).

'01 310

'02 345

'03 400

'04 450

The approximate total budget during Dov's tenure is about one trillion 200 billion dollars.

If the Dovster swiped 2.8 trillion then doesn't that mean that he would have swiped the entire Pentagon budget plus another one trillion six hundred billion dollars from some other department? That is one smart Zionist.
148

Wally,

By The Rivers Of Babylon (USA) 19/01/2008 20:35:51
King Nimrod in 144:

yes, it is true. General karpinski (I think that was her) was in charge of Abu Ghraib. She was walking in a hall-way and came upon an Israeli person in Israeli military uniform. She stopped him and conversed. She asked why he was here. He said he was with the intelligence people and indoctrinating the prison guards how to handle the prisoners. This info was published right in major newspapers in the US. Unfortunately, for many Americans all information not repeatedly spoon-fed to them by the tv is false information.

The lower-ranking soldiers who were punished for abuses all said that they were taught to do what they did by the intelligence people. General Karpinski is the only officer that tried to change the situation. For this she was demoted to Colonel and bad-mouthed by top people in our military. Then she was given a nothing-job and she quit the army after over 20 years in.

I think that not 1 single officer besides Karpinski was punished over it all. Just a few weeks ago the last case against an officer concerning Abu Ghraib was dismissed. The intelligence people who indoctrinated the soldiers to do the abuse were never accused of anything.

You are mistaken about the abuse at Abu Ghraib in that it was not harmless. Dozens of people died at the hands of US forces in Abu Ghraib. The US Army's own investigations concluded this.

But we live in a country where the truth is sometimes printed in newspapers, yet because it is not stated on tv as it should, then it is considered false.
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Wally,

By The Rivers Of Babylon (USA) 19/01/2008 20:45:59
King Nimrod in 148:

I have explained to you this story before, I have even given you a link that had the transcript where Donald Rumsfeld said the money was missing. I've shown you YouTube clips of Donald Rumsfeld speaking it even. and you still don't know the story.

On September 10, 2001 Rumsfeld & the pentagon held a press conference. All the big news networks carried it in the evening, CNN, Fox, ABC, CBS, NBC. Rumsfeld said that over about a 10 year period a lot of money went missing. On September 10, 2001 he listed a number, it was over 1 trillion. Later on other numbers were used by the pentagon.

and as I tell you, the September 11 attack wiped out the accountant's workplace in the pentagon. Some of the same people who demanded over a period of time that the pentagon tell the americans about the missing money were killed by the September 11 criminals.

It was about 1 dollar in 3 maybe over a long period that went missing - of the entire Department of Defense budget.

As the tv only mentioned this theft once, King Nimrod thinks it is a lie. I keep telling you, in order for a fact to be true it must be stated on tv prominently repeatedly if it was an important thing. Important things must be repeated. To merely mention it once does not make it true if it is an important thing. I'm not making this up. Show the Americans a printed news article about an important fact that should be on tv, and they will tell you it is a lie if it is not on tv. In America tv shows are what determines truth (for many people).
150

Wally,

By The Rivers Of Babylon (USA) 19/01/2008 20:50:45
follow-up on 150:

The European Union also has troubles with money missing. Same type of thing. You should understand that criminals rule us, on both sides of the Atlantic even. Perhaps the evil ones are more powerful in America, than in Europe. But the situation is similar.
151

Lynne,

USA 19/01/2008 21:12:50
Wally, what happened to the millions missing, that was given to the Palestinians? Maybe you can track that down for us. You seem to have a knack for it. I'll give you a hint..(Mrs. Arafat)...start there.

152

Wally,

By The Rivers Of Babylon (USA) 19/01/2008 21:25:25
Lynne in 152:

that's nice Lynne. There's a big difference between a million & a trillion. a trillion is a million millions. I've read that Mr. Arafat stole much, even over a billion dollars, which is a thousand million.

Are you saying that because Mr. Arafat did it, then it is OK for presidents Bush/Clinton/Bush to do it?
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Lynne,

USA 20/01/2008 03:59:18
I did not say that at all, so stop putting words in my mouth.
Be it a million, billion or trillion, that money was stolen from the mouths of palestinians who blame everyone else for their problems.
Maybe they should demand from their leaders, that the aid given them should actually go to them..Wouldn't that be a novel idea!!
Every President makes money after being President. They go back to their old business,and go on the lecture tour, and write books. I don't know what your problem is. In order to run for President, they had to divest themselves of anything that would make it a conflict of interest.
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57Nomad,

california 22/01/2008 03:35:47
#150 Wally

Wally said:

"I have explained to you this story before, I have even given you a link that had the transcript where Donald Rumsfeld said the money was missing."

Wally, you are priceless. Probably before your time, but here is the refrain from a song by the Doobie Bros. c. 1979.

"But what a fool believes he sees
No wise man has the power to reason away
What seems to be
Is always better than nothing"

Wally, you don't need a single citation. Simply add up the budget for the four years that Dr. Zakheim was comptroller. Then compare that number with the amount that the poster said disappeared during his tenure. If you do you will see that Dr. Zakheim would have had to pocket ALL of the DoD budget during his four years and then raided another department for another couple of trill. I don't know, Wally, I just don't know.
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57Nomad,

california 22/01/2008 03:51:10
#150 Wally (again)

Wally said:

"On September 10, 2001 Rumsfeld & the pentagon held a press conference. All the big news networks carried it in the evening, CNN, Fox, ABC, CBS, NBC. Rumsfeld said that over about a 10 year period a lot of money went missing."

Wally, as you know, I was responding to post 136. Here is a portion of that post:

"Did the Americans ever find out what happened to the $2.8 Trillion missing from the Pentagon budget under comptroller Dov Zakheim, the Zionist who got the 80% discount on the F16's?"

First find out what years did Dr. Sakheim served as comptroller. Then add up the budgets for those years. If you do then you will see how it is impossible for Dr. Zakheim to have done any such thing.

Now quit making snide and condescending remarks about the Nimster and practice your reading and arithmetic.
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22/01/2008 18:14:16
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