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'Centuries to sexual equality' - but some question whether it can ever be achieved

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Published Date:
24 July 2007
WOMEN can expect lower pay than men for decades to come, according to new research.
Despite the roles of men and women changing dramatically over the past 30 years, the Equal Opportunity Commission (EOC) says Scotland still has a long way to go to redress the gender imbalance.

The report also found men suffer from sex discrimination, and some still question whether full equality between the sexes is even possible.

The EOC has identified 21 indicators of the barriers still to be crossed before full equality can be achieved.

For example, it may take 20 years for women - who currently earn 14 per cent less than male colleagues - to earn the same.

That gap rises for women who work part-time. It could take 30 years for such women to earn the same wage as male colleagues.

It will take 120 years to achieve equality in council leadership, with just 14 per cent of local authorities led by women, and 45 years for senior judges to be equally male and female.

And with just 10 per cent of top company directors in the UK being female, it may take 65 years for boardrooms to achieve gender balance.

In other areas, the situation is getting worse for women: 54 per cent of pregnant staff experience discrimination and women do more of the housework and childcare duties than before.

And more women are reporting domestic abuse, while growing numbers feel unsafe when walking home late at night.

Evelyn Imrie, a cleaner who won her equal-pay claim against Edinburgh City Council in 2004 after claiming she was paid less than male counterparts, said she doubted whether full equality was possible.

"Perhaps it might be for the educated people with degrees, but not for those in menial jobs - they have been exploited for years," she said. "But they are getting more educated all the time and won't put up with it."

Men also suffer from sex discrimination, the report says. Work commitments mean many struggle with health problems as they are unable to visit their GP during working hours. And 70 per cent of fathers worry that they have too little time to spend with their children.

In response, the EOC has developed an interactive 'gender agenda' website for people to measure whether sex inequality affects their quality of life.

Rowena Arshad, EOC Scotland commissioner, said institutions needed to catch up with the changing times and argued channelling women into low-paid work contributed to child poverty and family breakdown.

She said: "Scotland is still a long way from being an equal nation. These startling indicators suggest that the reality of far too many men's and women's lives is out of step with their aspirations."

She added: "We're living in the midst of an unfinished social revolution. Failure to act will have consequences for the social and financial health of countless individuals - as well as the nation as a whole."

Earlier this month, a Law Society of Scotland survey revealed that 71 per cent of female lawyers, compared with 52 per cent of male colleagues, believed maternity leave affected career progression - spurring the society to consider targeting men with educational materials on the issue.

Neil Stevenson, its head of diversity, said taking a career break did not necessarily affect someone's ability to perform in a senior position.

He added: "If it was a four- or five-year break, then they might need training to ensure they were up to date with the law.

"But we are seeing increasing numbers of men taking a year out, for a variety of reasons, and returning to their jobs. That becoming more common might help attitudes towards women."

John Wilks, the EOC director, acknowledged that full equality would take a great deal of work.

He said: "Nothing is impossible, but it is going to take an awfully long time.

"The way we see our positions in society, with men as breadwinners and women as child-rearers, needs to change."

The full article contains 675 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 23 July 2007 9:34 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Women and work
 
1

Michael Leonard,

Edinburgh 24/07/2007 02:02:40

What equality?-the law brazenly and blatantly discriminates against men at every turn.

2

Navvy,

24/07/2007 03:07:19

#1 Hear hear

Vive la difference!

3

Tatties ower the side,

Johannesburg 24/07/2007 04:01:10

Only 10% of articles like this would be written by a man.....

4

somerferg,

oz 24/07/2007 04:34:26

#2 - absolute rubbish.

#1 - I don't completely disagree with some of your points, however, its all about creating the possibility of a level playing field in terms of educational and career opportunities for women which certainly does not exist at present in Scotland. When these are achieved then women will have the equality they seek. Its not about putting men down. I fear changing the attitudes of many men in Scotland will be the hardest thing- you only have to read some of the disgraceful posts on this site when ever there is an article about rape cases.

5

,

24/07/2007 06:48:47
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6

,

24/07/2007 06:59:24
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7

,

24/07/2007 07:06:35
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8

Jeff, Surrey,

24/07/2007 07:35:15

Men are wholly discriminated against regarding their children in family law, benefits and society at large.

Women are discriminated against in some areas of work, also men in others -

BUT it could hardly be compared to the 2nd class citizenship or worse that men face with being treated as equally important to their children.

Fathers are routinely despatched from their children's lives by gender biased, government sponsored discrimination and system prejudices.

Time for the unions/EOC to protect children who need fathers as well as mothers.

9

paulr,

24/07/2007 07:38:27

#8 eric the neanderthal

A large part of the equality problem is women themselves, look carefully and you will see that most women who climb the ladder successfully do not assist other women in any way, they actually hinder other womens progress, possibly a jealousy thing or insecurity, i dont know.

10

eric,

24/07/2007 07:45:21

9.I agree .I know a guy who was attacked in a Bar and in defending himself he got cut with glass and so did the guy who attacked him,The attacker ,Counter charged ,And won his case,The Guy who was attacked in the 1st place went to jail he has a kid.lost his job etc etc.
A woman in my workplace attacked her workfreind (another woman)over a married guy they work with, The guy kindly let her down with her advances even knowing he was married.It was a serious assault,She got a fine and kept her job,Only because she had a kid!

11

Nick_Byrne,

Glasgow 24/07/2007 07:49:16

When women stop expecting to be "treated like a lady" they can can everything equal - but there seems to be this have it both ways attitude.

okay, in terms of pay things should be equal if the same job is done - people should be paid for their workload not their gender.

But in some cases it's ridiculous to have equal hiring polices and so forth - women and men are built differently and better adapted to different things.

You don't get many women general labourers, but then there are conversely jobs men would rather not do - usually anything involving kids.

But women don't do themselves any favours, I know a girl who thinks it's wrong if her boss is a woman. She believes men are better leaders - so much for the gender revolution.

12

eric,

24/07/2007 07:49:46

10 Think you got the wrong post paul .Apology accepted.

13

Nick_Byrne,

Glasgow 24/07/2007 07:50:21

Plus in the picture, as #7 she's wearing heels on that table! I hope the photographer repairs any scrapes.

14

Jeff, Surrey,

24/07/2007 07:52:20

#11 - Home Office research shows women are consistently treated more leniently than men.

So we have the law as a whole actively discriminating against males.


http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/pdfs/hors170.pdf

Home Office research: Understanding the sentencing of women

" Conclusion.

This study reveals major differences in the use of noncustodial penalties for men and women.

Women were consistently more likely than men to be discharged even when their circumstances appeared, on the basis of the available data, entirely comparable. "

15

eric,

24/07/2007 07:56:38

16 I agree,

16

Jeff, Surrey,

24/07/2007 08:20:48

You mean she was left "open mouthed" by your stupidity Dragonhead......

17

Nick_Byrne,

Glasgow 24/07/2007 08:35:14

#18 Interesting that you mentioned the navy- it's one of the places where this equality appears to be greatly unwelcome.

From my experience talking to officers and men, they accept women can do most of the jobs well enough, they make good pilots apparently, but they create the hassle of seperate quarters in ships, reducing space for other essentials and the big question.

What if we are hit? Effective damage control can save a ship and what's needed in most cases is strength and sad to say many are worried about large percentages of women in our bigger and smaller crewed ships.

Will there be the physical manpower (no pun intended) to deal with an emergency?

18

WJohn,

West Lothian 24/07/2007 08:36:32

And the situation for transvestites is even worse.

19

.,

24/07/2007 08:43:18

#5, whilst overstating the case slightly, I don't think #2 is entirely inaccurate.
Look at the recent case with Tennis, women get paid the same for winning the tournament, yet men can play up to 2.5 times as much. Surely a case for a lower hourly rate, hence being "paid worse"?

Whilst I'm not saying it shouldn't be done, women take time out from work to have children and very often return to work part time. This means that 2 individuals of opposite sexes gives you one with greater experience. It's not unheard of for the woman with less experience to be given a promotion, on the grounds that an employer is fearful of being seen to be discriminatory.

As for the access to education, you are talking utter nonsense! My sister has a 2.1 degree from one of Scotland's finest Universities, and a PhD from one of England's finest. All state funded, so the opportunities are there should women choose to take them.

It's not the world discriminating against women in a lot of cases, it's them discriminating against themselves. I have no sympathy for those who choose low paid work then moan that others are paid more.

20

Brandon,

24/07/2007 08:48:49

Try this next time you are watching tv advertisements...

Reverse the role of men and women in a commercial and you will see that there is a growing trend in the media that is acceptable to put men down as incompetent, flippant morons.

For instance the yellow pages adverts...
A man is trying to fix his doorbell (or some electrical/household problem - I can't entirely recall). After looking like a fool and failing a few times his wife/partner makes a phone-call and a plumber arrives to do the job properly. Then the end of the commercial she is smiling smugly over a cup of tea/coffee at the incompetence of her partner.... Now if the role of the man and woman were reversed this advertisement would cause a feminist outcry!

Take note of this yourself. Reverse the roles of men/women in advertisements and you will see that the idea of women being incompetent and frivolous, (which was predominant in male society before the rise of womens rights) is alive and well today - except it now applies from women to men..!

(Should also say that the reason the demeaning of men is happening is that men just don't care/aren't aware of this issue.)

21

eric,

24/07/2007 08:53:28

Its so simple a woman can do it!:)

22

Media 1,

cape town 24/07/2007 08:56:38

Poor women: Isnt it funny how the less dominant people of this world simply expect things on a plate, immediately!

Had men been the bearers of chidren and women the hunters, then the entire status quo would be the other way around. I dont hire women for management positions, but if I did I would pay them the same as the men I hire.

Women should earn the same as men, thats final. They are doing the same job so its only right! The problem is that men hire women and then pay them less. Solution, dont hire women. Most women hire women, they dont want men in their set up.

Look at first for women insurance. Try launch a first for man insurance. Look at the payment system on dates, society expects men to pay. Women golfers want to play on the mens tour, but what would happen if the men wanted to play on the womens tour? Women feel that the world owes them something, WELL, Some women do..not all

I say this; If you decide to hire women, you need to pay them EXACTLY the same as men, end of story.

23

eric,

Lothian 24/07/2007 09:09:11

My 2older sisters Always came across as strong women, Always loud and verbal id do this and id do that,all through my life ,and im just the little brother.
Mum takes ill and wants to be at home to spend her last days,Anyone whos delt with cancer will know the mess intailed.And when those times came .Both women ran into kitchen crying consoling each other,While i was left to do the hard work.I dont hold this against them they are my sisters,Even to this day 18month after mums death they phone each other ,I havent had a call from either .

24

Nick_Byrne,

Glasgow 24/07/2007 09:10:53

#23 Bloody true.

If the roles were reversed there would be mass calls of sexism but as it's men being lampooned it is supposedly funny.

When we are able to joke about everyone then we'll be equal.

Also notice how many female sports journalists we have now - is it because they are better or is it bewcause the stations have to appear to equal hiring polices. Considering how many women follow most sports are the numbers in the industry representatives of male and female applicant wnating to sports presenters? I doubt it.

25

Nick_Byrne,

Glasgow 24/07/2007 09:14:14

#26 Although not exactly on the same level - criticise a man and he'll usually shrug it off do the same to a woman and half the time they cry. (okay not always openly) (and yes, this is a generalisation)

Odd that and not great in an office.

Different species I tell ya.

26

eric,

Lothian 24/07/2007 09:25:50

We are all very close,Which makes it harder to understand,But It has made me look at women very differently.

27

,

24/07/2007 09:36:18
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28

AngusMor,

God's Own Island 24/07/2007 10:04:00

Brendan

Good points. Have noticed that too. However, when the woman phones fora plumber, what sex is the plumber? That's right, a man. She still has to call in a man to get the job done.

The reason the husband is shown to be incompetant is because after years of being married to a sniping spiteful woman who treated him like an incompetant for so many years, has actually become incompetant by destruction of his confidence. It is, actually, a form of domestic abuse and the adverts should clearly not depict a man in such a way. Of course, us men don't complain do we? That's because we are self assured enough, confident enough and MATURE enough not to retaliate through spite.

29

Viva,

Glasgow 24/07/2007 10:05:41

#5 Somerferg .
You are talking rubbish. Women win custody in 95% of family cases. The EOC, a wholly hypocritical organisation, has refused to tackle this major inequality. Why? Because they are feminist bigots. That’s why.
The man who went to the European Court of Human Rights to get free prescriptions for men at 60 asked the EOC to help. They refused.
Same with concession travel passes at 60, another glaring inequality. The EOC refused to help again.
It will be 2020 A.D. before men and women retire at the same age. Women live longer till 79 ((average). Men work till 65, (pay an EXTRA 5 years N.I/.contributions) then die at average 72. Pension law discriminates against men yet the EOC does nothing but because women do not receive the same final pension. The reason they don’t has a lot to do with the fact that married women opted (i.e. they chose) to pay a ‘ small’ N.I. Stamp, for their whole working life saving them a whole load of cash.
They could afford to do this because if their husband man dies, his wife INHERITS his pension rights. If a woman dies, her husband inherits…nothing!
Equality, ? The EOC know and care nothing about it. Damn them.

30

AngusMor,

God's Own Island 24/07/2007 10:06:12

Oh and the picture screams "I need to be a bitch to succeed and I have no respect for no one or nobody".

Not a good advert for women board members, is it?

31

FLUB,

Cowdenbeath 24/07/2007 10:21:09

"Centuries to sexual equality"

Has it not occurred to anybody that the report was produced with just such a conclusion to guarantee perpetual employment for a body that is composed of otherwise unemployable nitwits with nebulous degrees, who probably couldn't survive 5 minutes in the real world?

Disband all these bodies - EOC, CRE etc., they do nothing to help and perpetuate divisions in society, entirely out of self interest!

32

Dennis,

North Isles 24/07/2007 10:43:38

EOC - yet another bunch of unelected and unaccountable social engineers - hard at work using taxpayers money to fashion a 'new world', whether we like it or not.
They have systematically helped to undermine the family and have downgraded role of the mother who wants to stay at home to look after the children as next to criminal. We all pay for that piece of work.

They show clear and consistent bigotry, and are derogatory of their own sex far more than men would ever be.

Sometime we have to say enough is enough!

33

,

24/07/2007 11:47:24
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34

Armageddon Outtahere,

24/07/2007 11:50:48

I ain't being drawn into THIS subject. I'm in the doghouse as it is!!!

35

Anna,

Glasgow 24/07/2007 12:42:55

#27

This is a small point, but I'll make it anyway. Being a season ticket holder for a football team, I can state categorically that the number of women sports journalists IS representative of the number of women that follow sport (well, my particular team at least).

When was the last time you went to a football match? There are LOADS of women sports fans these days. I for one know much more about football than my husband!

36

uno.who,

WL 24/07/2007 12:51:57

If you are in any occupation which allows you to commute part of your (contributory) pension for a lump sum you may be surprised at how much EXTRA women get because they're expected to live longer (no doubt based on less stressful, hazardous, or strenuous requirements in the workplace). You never hear them complaining about that, or asking for the men to get a better deal !!!

37

Nick_Byrne,

Glasgow 24/07/2007 12:55:07

The last one I was at was a Livingston Partick match last season, not that many women compared to men.

And before that I was at an Old Firm Game - men again were in the majority.

But I'm not a big football fan.

"I can state categorically" - good for you, so can I, but can you provide evidence.

I know of someone in a journalism course - it had three men and seven women and apparently only one of the women considered covering sport but only asked to consider it. The blokes were more than happy to cover it - however, the girl was apparently given more opportunities to cover sport as it's felt they need a leg up and so we see more women these days - not that I care, I only folow rugby and cricket.

38

Anna,

Glasgow 24/07/2007 13:04:10

#40

I didn't say that women were in the majority at football games - of course men are still the majority. However I would estimate that at least 20-25% of the crowd are women, at least at the football games I go to.

Are more than 25% of sports journalists now female? I don't think so.

I actually DID a postgraduate journalism course along with 5 other people - 2 men and 3 women. All the women, including myself, were keen sports fans - three were fans of football and one a fan of rugby. One now works as a sports radio journalist, and any of us would have happily considered sports journalism as a career.

39

AJ of Fife,

24/07/2007 13:05:19

Ref #36,

I thought my comment was fair and on topic!!! Too many prudes on the Scotsman today obviously!!!

40

John Williamson,

Dumfries 24/07/2007 13:23:39

Well, well, well- let's see about "Eekwalitee" then.

Men still have a shorter average life expectancy than women - (Human Rights Act ?)
Spending on women's health issues outstrips that of men.
Men are over-represented in the suicide figures - by a factor of 4 to 1.
Men are over-represented in the homeless and destitute figures - roughly 4 to 1.
Men are over-represented in the functionally illiterate and innumerate.
There is no Minister for Men.
Men are under-represented in the part-time employment sector.
Men are paid less than women in the part-time sector - average 3%.
On average men work longer hours than women.
Men are still liable to conscription - women are exempt.
Men are under-represented in the Public Sector - 2 out of 3 Public Sector employees are female.
Men still pay a higher proportion of the Income Tax in the UK - around 79%.
On average (over a lifetime); men are net contributors to the Exchequer - women are net recipients.
Men are under-represented in the Care Sector - nursing, primary teaching etc.
Men are over-represented in the "Death Professions" - Police, Military, Fire Brigade etc.
Men are over-represented in "Death at Work" statistics.
Men get longer prison sentences than women for the same offences.
There are more men in prison than women.
The Divorce and Family Court system is biased against men.
Men have fewer Reproductive Rights than women.
Paternity Leave is less than Maternity Leave.

Where would you like me to stop ?

Yes, we have along way to go for Gender Equality in the UK !

41

yolanda,

24/07/2007 13:42:15

Women can't expect to be treated as equals in the workplace as long as newspapers continue (as the Scotsman has here), to depict them as stilletto wearing table top dancers.

Dear dear, AJ, what on earth did you say?

42

AJ of Fife,

24/07/2007 13:52:01

Hi Yolanda,

Don't want to get in trouble, but I just happened to mention, that I think it's great women have an unprecedented position in todays society. More power to their elbow...that's what I say!!!

I also mentioned something about the above picture - stilletoes, tables and bedrooms!!!! Nothing smutty mind!!:)

43

Media 1,

cape town 24/07/2007 14:00:53

#43 John Williamson: Is bang on the money!

Thing is, men dont have inferior chips on their shoulders, so the chances of an action group looking after mens rights is as likely as a world without womens action groups.

Women want equality, but cant practice eqaulity! Until they can, they will keep themselves down. Women need to grow up and get on with things, they need to ditch the victim mode, we dont get as much as men! Women need to become men!!

44

Anna,

Glasgow 24/07/2007 14:00:53

#43 I’d like to address a few of your points:

Men have a shorter average life expectancy than women because men are more likely to lead unhealthy lifestyles or take on hazardous jobs. They also tend not to visit the doctor when they are ill, which might prevent the progression of serious illnesses.

Spending on women's health issues outstrips that of men – OK , if this is true, it’s unfair.

Men are over-represented in the suicide figures – this is widely attributed by psychologists to be because of their tendency to bottle up problems rather than discuss them with friends, as women tend to do. More women suffer from depression than men, but they seem to be better at coping with it.

Men are under-represented in the part-time employment sector because most men have full time jobs as they are less likely to have caring responsibilities. I have no idea why they might be paid less, though.

On average men work longer hours than women – this is generally through their own choice and often due to a macho ‘long hours culture’ that women are less likely to put up with.

Men are under-represented in the Public Sector - 2 out of 3 Public Sector employees are female – again, presumably this is down to personal choice. More women might be encouraged to apply for public sector jobs because of enlightened working practices such as flexi-time and good maternity benefits.


Men are under-represented in the Care Sector - nursing, primary teaching etc – again, is this not because men CHOOSE not to take up these professions?

Men are over-represented in the "Death Professions" - Police, Military, Fire Brigade etc – AGAIN, because they choose to follow these types of career. Nobody’s forcing them.

Men are over-represented in "Death at Work" statistics – because more men CHOOSE to take up hazardous jobs.

There are more men in prison than women – I think you’ll find this is because more men c

45

yolanda,

24/07/2007 14:31:07

Hi AJ,

My boss put on fishnets and stillettoes and stood on top of the table during an interview, to try to gain brownie points among the interview panel, but sadly, it didn't work.... He was severely reprimanded and laddered his stockings as he climbed down from the table!

46

Spoot,

Dunbar 24/07/2007 14:34:27

#43
Aw, come on, let's not confuse the issue by quoting verifiable facts. This controversy is much more entertaining when it consists of swapping nothing but preconceptions and prejudices.

47

Helen,

24/07/2007 14:38:38

I'm a feminist and proud of the fact. I've almost made it to the top in my career and am still working towards further qualifications so that I really can get to the top. I don't expect to be 'treated like a lady', in fact I'd be very annoyed if someone singled me out for gender specific treatment. I have got where I am through hard work and total commitment to my career and my own professional development.

48

AJ of Fife,

24/07/2007 14:43:41

Yolanda,

Seems like you have quite an exotic boss...a bit like your very very exotic name!!!! |My boss' idea of exotic, is to parp the morning after a curry, she thinks the aromatic fragrance is sophistimacated!!!

49

Media 1,

cape town 24/07/2007 14:44:21

HELEN just spelled it out for everyone: As I also said, woman can achieve anything they want, but first they need to want...No man, no women, no person can ever keep another person down if that person is determined and driven to succeed.

Women have as much opportunity to men. Helen understands it, hence the reason she is top of her game and probably earning a fortune. Good on her and those like her. They dont want special treatment, they dont want anything, the belief they have in themselves is all they need to succeed.

Its the same for all of us!

50

Lock,

24/07/2007 14:51:49

'Centuries to sexual equality'

Does this mean women are going to start growing willys and breasts will start appearing on men? Come to think of it there are a lot of fat men with large breasts already. Freaky...

51

John Williamson,

Dumfries 24/07/2007 16:28:03

47 - Anna - if you apply your arguements to women then you find that there is no (so called) Gender Pay Gap and no Discrimination.

Women work fewer hours, tend to predominate in part-time work, do less overtime and have "career breaks", of course they will be paid less. Compare like with like and the so-called Gap is less than 2%

You talk about factors that lead to shorter life expectancy and higher suicide rates, but where are the EOC etc sponsored programmes to address the issues ?

You talk about factors leading to higher suicide rates in men - so where are the outreach programmes to address these issues ?

Men are over-represented in the full time sector because 90-odd percent of them have the responsiblity of being major breadwinner for their family. Stay at Home Dad's still make up less than 5% of that sector

Men work longer hours because they have to provide for families - recent study showed over 60% would work fewer hours and spend time with family if they could afford to.

Men are under-represented in the Public Sector because of Discrimination - the pattern is across the board in the entire sector not just specific professions. You will also find a preponderence of other minorities in the Public Sector out of all proportion to local population structure.

Men are under-represented in the Care Sector because of something called "The Glass Front Door". Why are men considered suspicious and "dodgy" if they want to work with children ? That's "The Glass Front Door" ! Why, in some Trusts, do male nurses have to be "chaperoned" (or are banned entirely) when carrying out "intimate" procedures with female patients ? That's "The Glass Front Door"

The "Death Professions" - look up something called "The Glass Cellar". Boys attaining the poorer results in the completely impartial and unbiased Education System (and not go

52

Proximaking,

Dundee 24/07/2007 16:45:16

The simple way to see if something is sexist is to role reverse and if it seems wrong that way it was wrong the other way. It is clearly wrong for a woman who spends all the time with her kids when her husband is at work to have them taken from her by him and given to a child-minder or his new partner to look after because it suits him, we all see the sense in this. And yet the opposite example, househusband watching kids for years, working wife gets fed up and hands kids to child-minder or new partner happens with alarming regularity to the detriment of the kids to suit the mother. Similarly if a man decides to take a career break because he has a well paid partner we might expect that he would be paid less on his return to employment than people, male or female, who had stayed. Why should it be different for women for which this example applies with far greater regularity? Many women I know have taken career breaks but very few men have so for this reason alone the average female salary would be lower than the male. I would say on balance for the things that really matter men are the ones who are discriminated against in terms of employment, child access, car insurance (try setting up an ad on TV for cheaper car insurance for men or black people because they have better reaction times or chinese because they are more intelligent and see how far you get but one for women is fine it seems), punishment for violent crime (do you honestly think four men caught on a phone camera egging two young children to fight would have stayed out of jail or been allowed to keep their children?), five times as much spent on breast cancer patients (mostly women) as spent on prostate patients and yet well over twice as many men die of prostate cancer as women die of breast cancer, the list of men's greivances goes on and on and it is high time THESE were put right before any more time is given over to women's issues, we should have only people's issues but the balance must be redre

53

calum,

24/07/2007 16:53:13

I can't understand why my earlier comment a #7 was removed. Pointing out that standing on a polished conference table with high-heels shoes is irresponsible and that if I was her I would her to account hardly seems worthy of being pulled. I repeat, if any employee of mine carried on like that on the conference room table and damaged I would make sure that they didn't do it again.
#50 Are you the same Helen who wanted the young Man Utd player Ronaldo to be injured and then drummed out of the country? If you are then you hardly represent a fair pespective on the rights of others to a fair crack at employment.

54

Craig Allan,

Glasgow 24/07/2007 16:53:32

If you exchange the word 'woman' for 'Black' or 'Jew' then you can see that the views here are nothing more than small minded prejudice. The editors of this page should consider whether these troglodytes would ever be allowed a forum for their opinions if the discussion was on racial equality as opposed to gender equality. The fact comments such as these exist indicates the level of misogyny that permeates every society on earth and the very reason that inequality is so entrenched despite many years of campaigning by women to achieve rights that men have taken for granted since time immemorial. I don't know why so many men feel that equality has been at their expense, this is about raising everyone's standards; people suffer inequality the world over, but the facts remain that women suffer far more. Equal pay is just one embarrassing facet of a patriarchal system that has denied women equality. The bitter misogynists expressing their views here are, I hope, unrepresentative of men in general, for you bring shame on our gender.

55

calum,

24/07/2007 16:53:52

"..... hold her to account ....." Sorry

56

calum,

24/07/2007 16:59:26

Craig at #57, If your argument is correct then there exists institutional, legal, governmental and administrative misanrdy. e.g. family law, pensions, criminal law, work break rights etc. etc.. Equality should not mean revenge (as some, including you seem to indicate) but it should be absolutely fair for all .......and its not, including for men. Pointing out facts is not "bitter misogyny" or is the fact that men are disadvantaged as well too hard to deal with.

57

John Williamson,

Dumfries 24/07/2007 17:05:30

57 - Misogyny - Psychiatric condition in which a man (or woman) expresses an "irrational fear or loathing of ALL women".

And if you exchange the word "Patriarchy" for "International Jewish Conspiracy" then you get the same result !

58

calum,

24/07/2007 17:06:42

Actually, the article does point out that men are discriminated against as well in all the above areas such as health, breaks etc. but the evening TV news (on as I type) is focussing on nothing but the rights of women. Poor reporting and analysis.

59

Colin B,

Bearsden 24/07/2007 23:07:42

Women are off sick a lot more than men and not as brave as men at asking for salry increases - can't blame men for that ( well MArgaret Curran could ). Women are quite hestitant and often raise issues after the event or with eople who cannot influence matters and they do do a lot of things by committee

60

dolivaw,

The Late USA - Apparently 25/07/2007 00:21:27

I’m beginning to see why so many muslim (what passes for men) have flocked to the UK… they have found kindred spirits.

61

dolivaw,

The Late USA - Apparently 25/07/2007 00:24:01

BTW I am a MAN.


 

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