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Published Date: 23 June 2009
THE head of a forthcoming inquiry into the Iraq war said yesterday it was "essential to hold as much of the proceedings of the inquiry as possible in public".
Sir John Chilcot, in a letter to Prime Minister Gordon Brown, said he would consult opposition party leaders and senior MPs before deciding the exact format of the inquiry.

However, he told Mr Brown: "More broadly, I believe it will be essential to hold as much of the proceedings of the inquiry as possible in public, consistent with the need to protect national security and to ensure and enable complete candour in the oral and written evidence from witnesses."

Mr Brown had initially said the whole inquiry would be held behind closed doors for security reasons, but then he told Sir John he could decide to hold some parts in public – after an outcry over the secrecy.

Sir John also said there was a need to give the families of those who died or were "seriously affected" by the conflict "an early opportunity to express their views about the nature and procedures of the inquiry, and to express them either in public or in private as they prefer".

Former prime minister Sir John Major, senior military figures including former army head Sir Mike Jackson and Lord Butler of Brockwell, the head of the last official inquiry on the war, were among critics who forced Mr Brown into a partial climbdown over openness.

No 10 sought to defuse the row by suggesting the government did not have an attachment to closed hearings and that Sir John would have a degree of discretion in how he conducted proceedings.

Tony Blair, prime minister at the time of the invasion, was reported at the weekend to have urged his successor to keep the hearings secret to avoid them becoming a show trial.

In his letter, the inquiry chairman welcomed "the fact that I and my colleagues are free to decide independently how best to fulfil our remit".

He suggested that a "significant part" of the inquiry, especially in the early stages, would be taken up with analysis of the vast quantities of documentary evidence related to the build-up, conduct and aftermath of the invasion stretching over seven years.

"By definition, that part of the process cannot be conducted in public sessions," he noted.

"The results of that examination and analysis will, however, be crucial in guiding the selection of witnesses and the detailed questions that will then need to be answered. I expect our report will publish all the relevant evidence except where national security considerations prevent that."

He said he had already begun the process of recruiting expert assessors on military, legal, international development and reconstruction matters.

In his reply to Sir John's letter, Mr Brown said: "I believe your proposals will manage to meet both the need not to compromise national security but also enable the independent inquiry to hold public sessions, helping to build public confidence."


The full article contains 506 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 22 June 2009 11:32 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: War in Iraq
 
1

Electric Hermit,

23/06/2009 02:55:46
In his reply to Sir John's letter, Mr Brown said: "I believe your proposals will manage to meet both the need not to compromise national security but also enable the independent inquiry to hold public sessions, helping to build public confidence."
----------

The only thing the public have "confidence" in is that this whole thing is a sham.

2

W Smith,

Middle East 23/06/2009 03:26:34
Mr Alex I-care-about-Human-Rights Salmond had plenty to say about the recent Israelis airstrikes and yet not one word of criticism on Iran.

Salmonds mate Galloway has nothing to say about the brutality of the Iranian government either.

STRANGE.

Has anyone seen Ken Loach?
3

,

23/06/2009 07:22:37
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
4

tommy M,

Scotland 23/06/2009 08:16:26
What would have been "essential" one would have thought, would have been to give the troops the correct equipment to fight with and to protect their own lives. Who was in charge of the pennies when not enough money was being provided to the army to put boots on the soldiers? Oh, yes, it was Chancellor Broon, wasn't it?
5

brianmca3,

auld reekie 23/06/2009 08:19:38
my the carpets at number 10 must be like hills,with all thats swept under them by thatcher,blair and brown
it has to be made public,after all they put their faces on tv everyday to tell us it was essential to rid the world of sadam
yet blair has squeeky bottom syndrone,what is it hes hiding from joe public?
maybe love letters from his usa chum bush
6

TWC,

exLabour 23/06/2009 08:21:55
I hope the Tories call another Iraq enquiry next year to expose all the lies this one will hide.

I wish an election could be called now.
7

Phil C,

23/06/2009 08:24:37
'THE head of a forthcoming inquiry into the Iraq war said yesterday it was "essential to hold as much of the proceedings of the inquiry as possible in public".'

Doh! You'd have to be really stupid not to realise that!! Wonder who thought it would be better in private?!!

8

morris,

edinburgh 23/06/2009 08:26:13
'it was "essential to hold as much of the proceedings of the inquiry as possible in public".'-Sir John Chilcot

Fair comment.......................but either its open or its not and as much as possible is the truth,and should mean in undiluted form ,and there's no chance of that happening and we all know it!

The truth is already known,to the world and the late Robin Cook quit over this !What we don't know is how transparent will this enquiry be ?
The result will speak volumes and if the end result is anything less than a condemnation of Blair/Broon's foreign policy then its not a public enquiry,its a whitewash and we are getting used to them from Labour.
The people of Scotland must ask themselves a question: Do you want to hold your head up on foreign shores,because if you do,then you must rid yourself of Westmidden and its deceptive practices which seem to be increasingly the norm.

Labour do not govern on behalf of the people. Labour govern on behalf of the Labour Party, and consider the ability to "get away with it "to be joined up politics.
I consider them to be an embarrassment to both Scotland and the United Kingdom.
9

W Smith,

Middle East 23/06/2009 08:30:12
Of course, nothing Alex Salmond's mate Mohammed Sawalha does is considered "illegal".

Real law abiding bunch Hamas, eh Alex?

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/scotland/article4926218.ece
10

morris,

edinburgh 23/06/2009 08:33:19
10 The statement says what it does in recognition that it will claim to be a public enquiry but may in fact be well short of that and a window dressing excersise only. Mandelson thinks you can spin your way out of anything and the truth is an expedient casualty of any enquiry and that is acceptable apparently.
Nobody thinks it would be better in private.
Nobody suggested that either.
They make the opposite point !
11

TWC,

exLabour 23/06/2009 08:34:14
12 W Smith,


Whit's that got to do with Labour's dictatorship in UK. They are incapable of openness on any topic.
THe people are deserting Labour in their droves, it may cease to exist after the next elections if the LIbdems wake up to the potential of FFA
12

Rob Royston,

Bishopbriggs 23/06/2009 08:46:35
#3 and #12 Willie Smith.

You are commenting on some other topic, this one is about the Iraq inquiry. Alex Salmond was against this war from the get-go.

If you hate him that much, why not come back home and stand against the SNP.

Posting from the "Middle East" against Muslims etc. makes you look like a typical, two-faced, unionist sponger.
13

Scottish and Proud,

Glasgow 23/06/2009 08:54:24
This will be another Butleresque type enquiry,exonerating the Labour Party from any and all blame, save the money and just hold an election instead.
14

,

23/06/2009 08:54:35
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
15

nostress,

grangemouth 23/06/2009 09:17:40
#6 - Baggy - the middle east WSmith's case is probably Harthill services...
16

morris,

edinburgh 23/06/2009 09:25:25
The best way to convince people that an enquiry is above board is to announce a private enquiry and then " bow to pressure " and concede a "public enquiry" .This has been stage managed and is just stage 1 of a complete sham!

Its designed for consumption by anybody daft enough to swallow it.
I can hear the village idiot now saying Its a public enquiry and transparent .Gordon said so!
The comment at 17 is SPOT ON.

The only conclusion which would be above board is a War Crimes tribunal at Den Haag .

We and everybody else on this planet probably, know that Blair claimed to have irrefutable proof, when what he had was a document taken from a students paper on the Internet.
He lied and Robin Cook resigned when he realised this.
Blair said he had irrefutable proof but a week later said he "Still believed the WOMD s existed".
This is chronologically impossible!
You can believe something and then be proven to be correct.
You cannot have proof of something,and later only "still believe" it !
Its admission that this is a deception by design and intention!
17

Rob Royston,

Bishopbriggs 23/06/2009 09:42:22
#3, Willie. I think Alex Salmond and George Galloway have been round the block too often to make comments on Iran.

Are you certain that the election results were rigged?
Are you certain that the demonstrators are not being led by internal and/or external enemies of the elected government?
Are you certain that the suicide bomber was not a brain washed agent acting against the elected government?
Are you certain that the sniper was not the same?

This thread is about the Iraq inquiry. Will we have an Iran Inquiy in the future?

Nothing is ever what it seems, let the people and the government of Iran sort this out for themselves.
18

morris,

edinburgh 23/06/2009 09:43:39
19 (continued)


It may be that some still have a problem understanding why a conclusion of Blair is a liar is the only one possible .Let me try and draw an admittedly crude analogy.

If you said to your pal I have irrefutable proof that Mary has had an abortion and next week she gives birth to a baby, you are clearly a liar yes?

If you say I still believe that she had an abortion, then even the total moron would realise NO You don't,nor did you ever! You are a B LIAR !

In a similar way what Blair said is impossible to be above board.
19

Thistledhu,

23/06/2009 09:55:33
My great concern is that this will not be a project to learn lessons but a political football.

can we hope for such an enquirey to be conducted in a Dignified manner?

Probaly not i fear this will become a mud slinging exercise degradeing the proud acheivements of the armed forces and insulting the memories of those who fell.

If this is just a finger pointing exercise wich i think it is then we shouldent be haveing an enquirey at all
20

morris,

edinburgh 23/06/2009 10:03:52
22 This is not a finger pointing exercise, and if it became one it could only be the governments handling of the situation which causes this to happen.
This is an attempt at defending the indefensible.
The finger pointers as you call them are the good guys who want the truth to be out and officially recognised .Its the government who are in danger of bringing this procedure into disrepute.

Of course how you see this presumably depends upon which you think is more important.
1) The UK can hold its head up amongst the international community by being transparent.
2) The Labour party is above the law and that includes Den Haag !
21

morris,

edinburgh 23/06/2009 10:05:39
23

That what I concluded,but I did consider the possibility that he is hanging between the legs of a camel at Corstorphine Zoo.
22

Thistledhu,

23/06/2009 10:08:57
24 you have just proved my point the aim of this enquirey and any other is to learn lesson's all you want to do is to gain political avantage.
23

nostress,

grangemouth 23/06/2009 10:15:39
#22 Thistledhu - "proud achievements of the armed forces" - Just what proud achievements would these be then Thistledhu?

Taking part in an illegal invasion of a sovereign country which did not threaten the security of this country in any way, resulting in the deaths of many children and other innocent civilians?
Being responsible for the shocking, inhuman treatment of Iraqi civilians while under HM Forces control?
Leaving the city of Basra under thuggish militia control?
Which particular "proud achievement" do you have in mind?
24

morris,

edinburgh 23/06/2009 10:20:28
26 No I have not proved your point at all.
I'm not even sure what your point is !

I want an enquiry which is seen to be transparent or there is no legitimate purpose in holding one ,and I like everybody will decide if I believe that any transparency existed or not.
I would say if anything ,YOU fear that the truth will no longer be suppressed, because its already considered by many to be lies.This enquiry will be judged upon its merits,if it has any.
I do not consider pointing a finger of accusation to be against the public interest, but I certainly consider an enquiry which claims transparency, when the only thing that is "clear" is that it is NOT transparent , is not only against the public interest, but clearly an attempt at a further deception.

You can form an opinion as will everybody.That's what the enquiry should be about and the real enquiry will be the court of public opinion anyway.

I am happy that this is so. We are a democracy and we shall therefore remain so.
25

Thistledhu,

23/06/2009 10:24:41
like it or not a lot was acheived the Decision
to invade was made by politicions not soldiers
26

Thistledhu,

23/06/2009 10:37:46
if anyone is entering into this process with the aim of haveing a go at politicions or the armed forces then it should not happen nothing woud be learned.

there should be in reality be two separate enquireys on e for the armed forces the other for the politicions to argue out there stance
27

morris,

edinburgh 23/06/2009 10:56:33
Can I just point out that I could only be guilty of that which I was accused (IE seeking to secure political advantage) if the enquiry's findings were in my favour and those which I believe to be correct anyway!
If the enquiry is transparent (as the Labour government claim it will be),then it means I am vindicated.
The only other possibility is that the enquiry is NOT transparent .


If the enquiry is seen to have been less than transparent,it means I am vindicated again!
Anybody with half a brain will recognise that this is not something I am claiming ! Its impossible for me to be wrong since I am vindicated in both scenarios !
All that remains is for the fat lady to sing,but we already know what song she will be singing and what song she should in our opinion have been singing,and they may not be the same.
The court of public opinion has still to give their opinion but we will do that as soon as Broon realises his political future is washed up and he calls an election.
28

Prudence,

23/06/2009 11:01:03
"Transparent","legitimate","official","candid","direct","straighforward","open", are "cloak and dagger" words that do not sit comfortably with "honesty" and "oath".
29

Thistledhu,

23/06/2009 11:14:04
nostress Basra is under the control of the Iraqi police service and Army

there is now power in Basra in the evening where in saddam time electricity was infrequent.

Free Elections

School building program on a scale unknown before in Iraq.

the basic fact is rightly or wronly the invasion happend the acheivments of the soldiers on the ground is impresive and Basra is now a better place.

the enquirey is in danger of being hijacked by left wing tree huggers aided and abetted by torys for there own political advantage

What will be acheived here Nothing just mud slinging at tax payers expense
30

morris,

edinburgh 23/06/2009 11:16:26
33 The fact that different words exist would in itself be sufficient to suggest that they are not identical in meaning any more than they are in spelling ,but they may still appear together in a thesaurus of course, so whilst I think I understand what you are saying, Im not sure why you have said it . (Does that make sense)?
Would you agree that either we as individuals believe the truth has been allowed to surface, or we believe it continues to be suppressed? It must be one or the other .

Why do I say continues to be? We wouldn't have need of an enquiry if it had been obviously transparent, would we?
An enquiry can only have one of two purposes

1) To establish the facts
2 ) To try and ensure that we never establish the facts.

Maybe we are singing from the same hymn sheet but I am anxious that you expand your thoughts here
31

Prudence,

23/06/2009 11:27:31
Iraq was no threat to Britain . If some of the MP's who voted for its invasion had even bothered to tap in "missiles " into their search engines , they would have realised that the reach Iraq had,came nowhere near Britain.

32

John Cameron,

St Andrews 23/06/2009 12:07:05
ZANU Labour's decision to go to war in Iraq was based upon assertions that turned out to be a tissue of lies. In the face of a million protesters on the streets of London, Tony Blair assured us that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction that threatened our way of life. He had to be stopped, even at the cost of a military invasion. Whether Blair really believed this is not the point. Enraged by the failure of a dishonest, incompetent leadership the electorate came to believe the worst of every politician. Gordon Brown's decision that the inquiry into the war in Iraq should be held in secret is a depressing indication that he does not grasp the depth of damage these events have caused to the relationship between the public and their Government.
33

Grahamski,

23/06/2009 13:13:54
37
"Labour's decision to go to war in Iraq was based upon assertions that turned out to be a tissue of lies."

This is quite simply untrue, the intelligence was found to be inaccurate but describe it as a tissue of lies is just plain wrong. The fact of teh matter is that most sensible people accepted that Iraq presented a threat, for example Sir Menzies Campbell wrote in September 2002: “We can also agree that Saddam most certainly has chemical and biological weapons and is working towards a nuclear capability.” And Robin Cook, writing in February 2001 sated: “We must not be deceived. Saddam still threatens his neighbours. Unchecked, Iraq could develop offensive chemical and biological capabilities, and develop a crude nuclear device in about five years.”

The truth of the matter is that no inquiry will satisfy those who hate Britain so much that they are pprepared to side with a fascist dictator against their own country.
34

Joe Plaice,

the Nutmeg of Consolation 23/06/2009 13:37:56
Ahhh, Goody, Grahamskijump has turned up to grace us with the inadequacy of his insight and erudition. He really must be a NuLiebore MP or MSP or similar leech.
Of course Ming the Merciless knew that Saddam had these weapons, we bloody well sold them to him! Saddam posed no threat to the UK whatsoever. Even their invasion of Kuwait was almost justifiable though extremely brutal. The ruling family in Kuwait are a bunch of inbred morons who treat everyone abominably, we would be well shot of them and the house of Saud as well. Saddam was a close ally of the US and Britain at the time of the Iran/Iraq war and bought loads of cool killing stuff from our companies. Grahamskijump, we who criticize the regime in Britain don't hate our own country, (well, I dislike the union intensly, but otherwise, no I don't), we do despise your favourite politicians who took us into an illegal war that resulted in the deaths of thousands of Iraquis and many British troops. You might be proud of that but I think you will find that you are in a distinct minority.

LOSER!
35

Joe Plaice,

the Nutmeg of Consolation 23/06/2009 13:38:43
P.S. Is your keyboard developing a stutter?
36

Grahamski,

Falkirk 23/06/2009 13:46:55
40
Blinking flip, you've managed to make as many mistakes as the dodgy dossier in your hysterial rant.

"Of course Ming the Merciless knew that Saddam had these weapons, we bloody well sold them to him!"

Who is we? Unless you're Soviet, Chinese, French, Brazilian and a whole host of former Eastern Bloc countries who armed Saddam you shouldn't be saying 'we' sold him weapons. We (as in the UK) didn't. Fact.

"Even their invasion of Kuwait was almost justifiable though extremely brutal."

I've always suspected that you nutters supported Saddam but to actually see it in print is quite frankly chilling.

"Saddam was a close ally of the US and Britain at the time of the Iran/Iraq war and bought loads of cool killing stuff from our companies."

No, we didn't. If you put together the weapons supplied to Iraq from the UK and USA you wouldn't get much more than one per cent of total Iraqi armaments.
37

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 23/06/2009 15:02:06
"Chief of Iraq war inquiry warns PM: We must be open"

Oh dear. Gordon will not be at all happy at the prospect of being open. His flawed personality predisposes him to secrecy and insularity.

38

Thistledhu,

23/06/2009 15:36:17
Joe Plaice if you are so convinced of the outcome do you not think we just should not bother having this enquiery at all
39

Thistledhu,

23/06/2009 15:53:05
Lets face facts there is going to two probale conclusions.

1 There was NBC weapons of mass destruction in the bathists regime control and it was subsequently smuggeld out/disposed off.

2. The inteligence provided was faulty that the regime had disposed of the missiles and chemical weapons stockpiled without the UN or western powers noticeing and saddam had been bluffing for many years after the 1991 war.

neither conclusion will satisfy the conspiracy theorists so why bother?
40

nostress,

grangemouth 23/06/2009 15:58:24
Grahamski - you're a real piece of work! You would justify Auschwitz if it was created by your warmongering Labour party.

Thistledhu - do you believe any enquiry carried out by this most duplicitous of governments is going to arrive at the truth? If you do then you are as big a piece of work as Grahamski, only less obnoxious.
41

Thistledhu,

23/06/2009 16:05:45
nostress you are contradicitng your self here

my understanding of your standpoint that there should be an enquirey but only if it agrees with your outlandish theories
42

Grahamski,

Falkirk 23/06/2009 16:10:07
46
Ah, a nat from Grangemouth...isn't there some SNP leaflets that need to be doctored?
Nasty wee post from a nasty wee nat.
43

nostress,

grangemouth 23/06/2009 16:20:28
No contradiction at all. There should be an enquiry - carried out in the Hague, with Blair, Brown, Campbell et all in the dock to answer on oath. If you believe an enquiry carried out by the British Establishment into the British Establishment will result in anything near the truth then that's up to you.

Grahamski - just look at the facts for once. That's all - just the facts.

44

Thistledhu,

23/06/2009 16:21:18
Lets just remember we live in a country where we cant keep secret what the Queen keeps her cornflakes in.

What scams our Mps's are involved in.

and who the stig is!!!

what hope would you have of a cover up/whitewash on the scale some talk of on these posts being succsesfull ?.

45

,

23/06/2009 16:23:11
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
46

Thistledhu,

23/06/2009 16:35:24
memamemamema Published on Sunday, September 8, 2002 by the Sunday Herald (Scotland)
How Did Iraq Get Its Weapons? We Sold Them
by Neil Mackay and Felicity Arbuthnot,

so by that you are accepting/telling us that Saddam had Weapons of mass dstruction?

47

Thistledhu,

23/06/2009 16:38:54
memamemamema they had french made Gazelle's please check your facts.
48

Thistledhu,

23/06/2009 16:49:05
in 56 you state that Iraq purchased westland made Gazelle and lynx helicopters
the gazells were from france and Iraq never had Lynx helicopters
49

Grahamski,

Falkirk 23/06/2009 16:56:55
Dear oh dear, there's a kind of Munchausen's by proxy guilt process going on with the Brit-haters. They just can't seem to believe that any country but their own can behave abominally. Take their ludicrous belief that the UK and US were the biggest weapons suppliers to Iraq.
The truth is completely different of course, a study done by the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute, provides a breakdown of which nations supplied weapons to Iraq between 1973 and 2002.
Number one, by far, was the former Soviet Union with 57 percent. Next came France with 13 percent, followed by China at 12 percent, Czechoslovakia at 7 percent, Poland with 4 percent and Brazil with 2 percent.
Then there were Egypt, Romania, Denmark, Libya and the United States of America, with a paltry 1 percent each.
The UK with a little under one half of one per cent doesn't even measure on their scale......but in the Walter Mitty fantasy world of bitter cybernattery - it's all Britain's fault, sad deluded creatures that they are....
50

Observer,,

Glasgow 23/06/2009 17:00:32
63 The point is that we knew what WMD he had and we knew they were degraded.

The Govt lied you are banging your head against a giant wall the size of China's if you want to argue otherwise.
51

Thistledhu,

23/06/2009 17:05:07
64 why then did saddam go to so much lenths to hide the state of his wmd capability?

what is beyond doubt he had such a capability and the willingness to use it. the question is how much was left by 2003 or how much he could produce with the capability acknowledged by the UN that he had.
52

Thistledhu,

23/06/2009 17:11:24
the conspiracy theory of a deliberte deception of the country by Blair, Brown the cabinet the leader of the opposition and the lib dems dosent really stand up to much scrutiny
53

Observer,,

Glasgow 23/06/2009 17:11:56
65 You expect rationality from Saddam Hussein ? In case you hadn't noticed he was a psychopathic nutter. The Govt fixed the ''facts'' around the policy. That's what happened, and the fact that none of these WMD which could be launched in 45 minutes were found is proof positive that people like Robin Cook were right to say they weren't there in the first place - they were degraded.

Ask yourself this - if Saddam had these weapons then who would he be launching them at ? Israel, Iraq, Syria would be the top of my list, not the UK.

Were they bothered ? No - they knew he was a paper tiger who's claws had long been pulled. Remember Israel had form in the eighties with bombing Iraq to destroy any potential capability to harm it.

The US with our assistance invaded Iraq because it wanted to. Not for any legitimate reason.
54

Observer,,

Glasgow 23/06/2009 17:13:34
67 Sorry that should read ''Israel, IraN, Syria'' although he was crazy enough to attack his own country he's done that before.
55

Grahamski,

Falkirk 23/06/2009 17:14:14
64
No, the point is Observer that nothing the inquiry reveals will change your mind. The only acceptable conclusion for you would be this inquiry finds the UK guilty of war crimes.
The fact of the matter is that no international court has come close to making that accusation far less bringing a prosecution against the UK and the US for the simple reason that these countries did not breach international law.
There are certainly plenty of people willing to give their opinion to the contrary but the most important opinion, that of the international courts themselves have been unequivical - the US and the UK have no case to answer.
56

Observer,,

Glasgow 23/06/2009 17:23:19
69 No you are right it won't change my mind because in common with many people I had reached the conclusion that the cassus belli presented to Parliament was no justification for a War which has had such catastrophic consequences. It was mince.

I have neither the time nor the inclination to go through it all again I can only state that history will in the long run show Blair and the rest of them up for the liars that they are.

The rest of the world knows that Blair is now one of the most hated men on the planet.

Jesus even Maggie Thatcher said there was no proof and the invasion should not have been launched.



57

Thistledhu,

23/06/2009 17:24:17
68 that is exactly the point he was crazy enough to use WMD'S on his own country although they were not his own people so anyone else espicaly Isreal was fair Game and lets not forget he was not in good health saddam was a moderate compared to his sons
58

Observer,,

Glasgow 23/06/2009 17:26:42
69 what international court has reached that conclusion ? No international court has heard the case.
59

Thistledhu,

23/06/2009 17:27:10
i am curouse why everyone singles out blair when we know in that period of time nothing went through without the nod from Brown
60

Observer,,

Glasgow 23/06/2009 17:29:35
71 with the best will in the world that is irrelevant. There are laws that govern warfare. You cannot launch a War to change a countries regime unless with the explicit approval of the UN or unless that country poses a risk to the countries who are attacking it.

We all know Saddam was a nutter (although in point of fact he was at his weakest ebb when the invasion was launched). That is not grounds for invading a country unless with international consent.
61

Grahamski,

Falkirk 23/06/2009 17:30:44
70
"I can only state that history will in the long run show Blair and the rest of them up for the liars that they are."

Aye, or history could show Blair up for the guy who helped free Iraq from the evil clutches of a fascistic despot. History might also show the craven attitude of the loathesome Stop the War Coalition that ragbag of Saddam-loving trots and evil Al Qaeda fellow travellers who managed to seduce the hand-wringing self-hating liberals into supporting Islamo-fascist extremists. Imagine if a white skinhead suggested the murder of gays or the subjugation of women? There'd be a march organised before you could say pathetic hypocritical guilt-bucket....
62

Observer,,

Glasgow 23/06/2009 17:31:32
73 Brown financed it yes, he is culpable too. But it was Tony Blair's decision to stand ''shoulder to shoulder'' with Bush. The rest of the Labour Party are guilty of sitting on their hands, with a few honourable exceptions.
63

Grahamski,

Falkirk 23/06/2009 17:32:41
72
"No international court has heard the case."

Err, there is no case - that is my point. The UK and the US have no case to answer.
64

Thistledhu,

23/06/2009 17:33:42
and of course many choose to ignore the fact that the use of force against Iraq for non complience was authourised by the UN on three separate occaisions.
65

Observer,,

Glasgow 23/06/2009 17:34:36
75 Grahamski take a deep breath and calm down.

Iraq was a SECULAR country before the invasion. It was a bulwark AGAINST Islamic extremism. Al Quaeda had no presence in Iraq, none at all. Now they are all over it.

The americans did getone thing right, this is a battle for hearts and minds. With their actions they have lost it.

66

Observer,,

Glasgow 23/06/2009 17:36:37
77 Eventually we hope there will be a case. As I said to you before, it's never too late - even if they are old men in wheelchairs.

So it's a bit hasty finding them innocent before the charges have been brought.
67

Observer,,

Glasgow 23/06/2009 17:37:49
78 The UN did not authorise the invasion of Iraq. That is re-writing history.
68

Grahamski,

Falkirk 23/06/2009 17:40:40
79
Iraq was not a secular country. Iraq was a moslem country run by a fascist dictator who subjugated some parts of Islam and encouraged others. Al Qaeda are not "all over" Iraq as you suggest, but are restricted to areas where their particulalry foul brand of Islam is tolerated.
The real problem I have with all the self-styled lefties who opposed the war and were so concerned with Iraq when it was fascist is their silence over the attacks on Iraqis by Al Qaeda and the rump of Saddam's fascist army.
Where are the marches supporting the heroic Iraqis who are struggling to build a democratic Iraq?
69

Grahamski,

Falkirk 23/06/2009 17:42:40
80
"So it's a bit hasty finding them innocent before the charges have been brought."

Huh? Finding them innocent of what? No charges have been brought because there are no charges to bring!
70

Observer,,

Glasgow 23/06/2009 17:47:21
82.

Iraq was a secular country. Ask anyone who visited it before the War they will tell you. It is now a bloody mess which is PRECISELY what we told you was going to happen before the invasion was launched.

Which Iraqis do you single out for heroism ? The Sunnis, The Shia, The Kurds ? The Marsh Arabs, The Christians ?It's a split state which has not only Ql quaeda and other nutters crawling all over it, it also has interference from Iran and Syria to name but two, plus all the Western interests seeking their share of the profits to boot.

This was all predicted before the first bomb was dropped.
71

Grahamski,

Falkirk 23/06/2009 17:55:46
84
I'm talking about the Iraqi trades unions, socialists, indeed democrats from across the political spectrum and most of all the millions of decent Iraqi folk who in the face of Al Qaeda and Ba'thist barbarism and threats did what they had been denied by the fascist Saddam, they voted.
72

Thistledhu,

23/06/2009 17:59:39
81 yes it did
73

Grahamski,

Falkirk 23/06/2009 18:09:03
Anyway, I'm listening to the new Lord Cut-Glass cd and it's great. Mental but great....
74

Thistledhu,

23/06/2009 18:12:13
im off to watch the lions or should I maybe its a decoy ALL PART OF THE us /uk conspiracy !!!
75

Grahamski,

Falkirk 23/06/2009 18:15:44
I'm off to eat....bye
76

Observer,,

Glasgow 23/06/2009 19:22:25
85 You don't think you are being just a tad naive there ?
77

Observer,,

Glasgow 23/06/2009 19:22:59
86 No it didn't.
78

CANUCK,

23/06/2009 21:13:42
I do feel very sorry for the people of Iran but unfortunatly the peoples of Iran like most of the peoples of Middle Eastern countries have not empowered themselves as of yet and are not likely to, at least in our life time.

We, just have a very difficult on going problem, as a democratic country, dealing with what are, for short of a better word, Middle Eastern Dictatorships.

Perhaps I should have said sorry for us ???

 

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