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Published Date: 01 February 2008
IT IS a multi-billion-pound haul described by the firm's chief executive as "satisfactory", yet denounced by union leaders as "obscene".
Shell yesterday posted the highest earnings ever made by a European company, a full-year profit of almost £14 billion.

The Anglo-Dutch giant's record announcement has led to further questions over "excessive" profits made by oil companies.

Un
ion leaders called the £13.9 billion profit – the equivalent to £1.5 million an hour – "obscene", at a time when motorists, pensioners and businesses are struggling to pay higher energy costs, with some suggesting the government levy a windfall tax on the major oil concerns.

Tony Woodley, joint general-secretary of the Unite union, said: "Shell shareholders are doing very nicely while the rest of us, the stakeholders, are paying the price and struggling.

"This government took the brave step of putting a windfall tax on the greedy privatised utilities to fund the New Deal. With pensions injustices still to be addressed, fortune should favour the brave again and the greedy oil companies should be asked to contribute for the common good."

Jeroen van der Veer, Shell's chief executive, described the firm's performance as "satisfactory", adding: "If you get additional taxation, in the end it means you can invest less. The money has to come from somewhere and, over time, it will impact on our production.

"You should not only look at the profits size, but at the size of the companies and the huge investment tasks we have to do for the future of our companies."

Shell and other oil companies insist they already pay high levels of tax. In 2005, Gordon Brown, then Chancellor, increased a North Sea tax on energy companies from the 10 per cent he introduced in 2002 to 20 per cent.

Introducing a windfall tax against Shell would be a complex procedure, given the difficulty in claiming enough of its profits have been made in the UK. Though one of its listings is at the London Stock Exchange, it also has listings in the Netherlands and the US, with its headquarters in The Hague.

Meanwhile, concerns remain after it delayed publishing figures showing its oil reserves. The statistics, which reveal whether Shell has found enough oil in the ground to replace the amount it was taking out, will not be published until spring, a sign some analysts believe does not augur well for the company.

Commenting on the scale of the profits, Sheila Rainger, acting director of the RAC Foundation said: "Shell is a private company and its job is to make profit. The people that could do something about this are the government. Petrol in the UK is very cheap compared with the rest of Europe when you take away tax.

"The problem is the 70p in the pound that goes to the Treasury. We would like to see the Treasury being a bit more creative in how it's taxing petrol.

"We would like to see something like a fuel-duty stabiliser. At the moment, whenever the price of crude goes up, the cost goes straight to the motorist."

Neil Greig, director of the IAM Motoring Trust, said: "The average motorist finds it difficult to understand why prices at the pumps are so high and Shell profits are also so high. But it would be very difficult for Shell to pile this money back into discounts at the pumps. They should be putting money back into ensuring future supplies on the high street."

Mr Greig said securing the supply of diesel, which is being encouraged for its environmental credentials, but which has seen a shortage of refining capacity, was a "top priority".

Tony Juniper, director of Friends of the Earth, said: "Shell is making vast profits from its climate-changing activities. The Chancellor must introduce a windfall tax in his March Budget, and use the money to improve energy efficiency in people's homes.

"Such a scheme would benefit millions of householders who can't afford to heat their homes, save people money and help tackle climate change. It would also reduce the UK's reliance on imported oil. The government must show it means business."

He added: "A tiny fraction of Shell's investment is going into renewables. It must do more to tackle climate change by investing more in helping develop a low-carbon economy and cleaning up the impact of its activities at home and abroad."

Q & A: RECORD GAINS

How has Shell been able to post such extraordinary profits?

The company rode the wave of rising crude oil prices, although it claims most of its profit comes not from the forecourts, but exploration and production initiatives. The impact of higher oil and gas prices on revenues was partly offset by lower production volumes, higher taxes and rising costs.

How can companies like Shell make money from producing oil but not from selling it at the pumps?

Fierce competition on the forecourts drives prices down and oil companies argue that minimal profit is made at their garages. When crude oil is expensive, the seller will see a rise in profits while the buyer will see a rise in costs. The companies say they are making their money through crude oil exploration and production, the "upstream" part of the business, but not in refining and selling fuel, the "downstream" area of the business.

Why do petrol prices remain so high when the price of oil falls?

Refineries and petrol stations can make some money by letting prices fall slowly but rise quickly in response to crude oil price movements. Fuel duty and VAT accounts for about 75 per cent of the total price of petrol. Petrol stations have to buy the crude oil and pay refinery costs. Whatever is left over, minus any additional expenses, constitutes profit.

Does all the money go to Shell executives and shareholders?

Around £6.7 billion of the 2007 profits will be paid to shareholders in dividends, but Shell argues that its profits are almost matched by the amount of money it spends on securing new energy sources, with £13.2 billion reinvested.

Why can't the upstream operations subsidise the downstream ones?

Only some petrol retailers boast their own upstream operations, with the likes of supermarkets only selling petrol.

Were the likes of Shell allowed to subsidise their operations, there would be an uneven playing field in the eyes of competition regulators.



The full article contains 1069 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 31 January 2008 10:30 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
 
1

Sanny,

Glasgow 01/02/2008 00:45:06
This will be the same Trade Unions idiots that destroyed the car industry and the ship building industry in Scotland. This particular Trade Union idiot does not seem to understand that these profits were not made in the UK but come from Shells worldwide operations. Taxes have been paid in the country of origin so why should additional taxes be due in the UK?

This industry is already overtaxed in the UK and this has resulted in an enormous cut back in exploration work in the North Sea. The simple reason being, that the return on invested capital is not worth while and better returns can be obtained elsewhere in the world. This has resulted in a loss of both capital and skills to Scotland and these losses will grow.

For those who were shouting for reduction in the price of petrol, would you expect a price of 35 to 37 p, a lt, if so, that is what you’re getting from Shell and all the other major company’s, the rest of the price goes to Mr. Brown. It is Brown’s taxes that are making your fuel expensive not the predations of the petrol companies.
2

truthsleuth,

South of the Border 01/02/2008 00:55:55
Shell makes its profits abroad and pays taxes on them abroad.
Oh if it were only that simple

Where is the oil sold by shell - not in Nigeria but in the UK
Shell should pay in the UK it chooses to organise ite multinational business to maximise its profits at the well head because it pays less tax there.
As a consequence its retail business in the UK has narrow profit margins result it pays relastively 'less tax' in the UK wherec tax is high.

This is how multi nationals play the tax/profits game and where the oil companies are concerned national governments are running scared.
3

The Strategist,

01/02/2008 01:08:39
#1 is right about where the most of the money we pay for petrol and diesel goes. It's not into Shell's pocket but into Brown's Treasury.

Part of the excuse for higher taxation on fuel was that because it was a "carbon tax" it would be put into R&D on alternative energy. That hasn't happened of course.

Shell and all the other oil companies support a large Scottish supply chain, invest money in university R&D and help fund new technologies being developed by small companies.

If these union numpties want a target to go for they should look no further than the banks. They make almost as much money but do none of the things that Shell or the other oil companies do.
4

steve green,

Preston, lancashire. 01/02/2008 01:15:21
I have not knowingly bought shell petrol for many years,
this will continue to be the case, so which idiots are gladly helping this company to 'screw us'? And brown, I have not forgoten your part in this.
5

Charles Linskaill,

.Edinburgh 01/02/2008 01:21:24
Why complain?.. we all..'Aid and Abet' everyday by,
Paying £5 'a-gallon', at the Pumps!
6

Charles Linskaill,

.Edinburgh 01/02/2008 01:27:56
70+% Tax yes in the UK,, but 'Tax-Monies' are covered up!
Who's to say, this Tax we pay, is not redirected back as favours to the petrol Giants!.?
7

brian mcc,

the arctic 01/02/2008 01:55:24
The oil industry is a Royal headless harlot.
Shell has 3 heads, 1 in London, 1 in the US,
1 in the Hague.

And Sir John Browne is enjoying retirement
benefits from another harlot, BP.
8

W Smith,

Middle East 01/02/2008 06:26:26
"Obscene" - the loony Left's favourite word.

Gordon Brown spends £167.5 billion on quangos in his last year as Chancellor while his Old Labour allies in Scotland keep quiet.

Mr Brown only takes in £140 bilion on Income Tax so your tax isn't all going on 'free' schools and 'free' health care then is it?

I find that "obscene" but the Labour supporting press in Scotland don't even think its worth talking about.

BTW
1) Shell are a public listed company which means its accounts are open to audit and the audit findings must be publicised for the benefit of the shareholders.

2)Many arab owned oil comapanies like Kuwait Oil Company and Aramco (Saudi Arabia) are owned by the royal families, not public listed, and your not going to get close to their accounts. FORGET IT!

3) George Galloway accepted a very expensive watch from the late Sheik Zayed of the United Arab Emirates for 'helping' the Palestinians.

Our George, who claims to be anti-monarchy, had no problem with Zayeds "obscene" personal wealth.

4) Ernie Ross, retired Labour MP and also anti-monarchy, was entertained by the royal family of Qatar while visiting a 'trade' conference.

Ernie had no problem with the "obscene" personal wealth of the Al Thani family of Qatar who also own Al Jazeera television.

5) The anti-monarchy Left in Scotland have no problem with a member of the Dubai royal family buying 24,000 acres of Perthshire - despite the guys "obscene" personl wealth.
9

Pilrig.,

Livingston 01/02/2008 06:27:40
Baith Broon and Shell oot to screw the motorists.
With all the billions Shell are making somehow they cant afford to fix the broken tyre-pressure gauge at Lizzie Brice petrol station !
10

Iain fae Elgin,

01/02/2008 07:23:33
"Tony Woodley, joint general-secretary of the Unite union, said: "Shell shareholders are doing very nicely while the rest of us, the stakeholders, are paying the price and struggling."

Well use some of your barely earned cash and buy some shares so you can join in then.

The unions helped destroy this country's manufacturing and industrial base; they would do well to leave what is left alone.
11

,

01/02/2008 07:48:12
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
12

Jimmy the Pie,

01/02/2008 08:26:29
I can't believe the idiotic calls for windfall taxes to be levied on Shell. The profits Shell made, look insignificant when you look at what has been, and is being wasted in Iraq and Afghanistan both in monetary and human cost.
13

Proximaking,

Dundee 01/02/2008 08:31:18
You can be sure of Shell. They are investing in new ideas from the leaked stuff going around at the moment!! http://www.bloggernews.net/112924
14

Unimpressed one,

01/02/2008 08:31:27
"Tony Juniper, director of Friends of the Earth, said: "Shell is making vast profits from its climate-changing activities." Thought this idiot had stepped down from FoE? No doubt his successor will make equally as idiotic statements.
15

JayJay,

Right here 01/02/2008 08:35:28
Loony or not, the left might get their wish.
Broonie, despite taxing people to a standstill, despite swiping 67% of every £1 in fuel (including a tax on a tax on already taxed income), despite the worst roads - certainly in Scotland - in Europe and despite his reputation as someone with a firm grip on the nations pursestrings......whoops, he is running a record national debt and still needs to increase taxes yet further, by some £8bn.
Do we actually have anyone looking into UK plc's finances? I really do have to wonder where all the money is going.
16

DAMcK,

Lanark 01/02/2008 08:55:51
Just like Shell, I am a tax avoider .....

I avoid paying tax by using the "not smoking" loophole.
I avoid paying tax by using the "don't drink much" loophole.
I avoid paying tax by using the "turn off the central heating" loophole.
I avoid paying tax by using the "walk to work" loophole.
I avoid paying tax by using the "don't buy things that attract VAT" loophole.

It's only fair after all!
17

BarntonBoy,

Embra 01/02/2008 09:17:14
The actual profit from retailing fuel in the UK is minimal - about one or two pence a litre in the most competative areas. A greater proportion of retailing profit is raised through the kiosk sales/ car washes etc etc. As stated elsewhere in this post about 70 % of the cost goes to the government, the rest on the product cost, cost of retailing and distribution etc and the meagre margin for the retailer. If the cost of the product goes up then there is nowhere to go but to pass on the cost to the customer - you can't expect private businesses to operate solely as tax raising agents for the goverment. All this ill informed carping at the oil companies helps the government to hide their role in high fuel costs.

A final word on the trade union guy - I thought we had consigned these sort of dinosaurs to the dustbin of history - raising windfall taxes on a global business - good idea! - how long does he think the money and jobs would stay in this country - including the £9bn or so raised by the exchequer on the profits alone.

Also 4 - driving around to find petrol stations not operated by the majors is a waste of time - most of the fuel sold on supermarket forecourts is supplied by the majors - they don't actually find it and refine it themselves - honestly!
18

Alternative (High Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 01/02/2008 10:09:06
"Fuel duty and VAT accounts for about 75 per cent of the total price of petrol."

So there you have it. If you want to have a go at anyone, have a go at this tin-pot, incompetent bunch of fools that have the audacity to call themselves a government.

There is nothing wrong with businesses making profits. In this case they have not done it on the back of the british motorist and anyone who thinks they have needs a wake-up call. #1 Makes some good points in this respect.

Regarding a "windfall tax" Why SHOULD this carzy government be able to steal the profits from Shell? So that they can fritter it all away on road humps and loony leftie social workers who in turn steal babies from their mothers?
19

Sanny,

Glasgow 01/02/2008 10:11:02

2 truthsleuth, South of the Border
What a misnomer! Careful your ignorance of the industry is showing: For instance where does Shell’s Far East Opco’s sell the oil extracted in Brunei, Sarawak, Malaysia etc? Answer: by local based oil Trader’s! Where do they pay taxes on oil extracted? Answer: the same as in the North Sea, in the country of origin. Group Management is centred in The Hague, Holland.
4 steve green, Preston, Lancashire:
I assume the green in your name refers to your political outlook. Like all Luddites still wet behind the ears. When you buy petrol you have no idea where the feedstock came from, you’ve no idea from which refinery. So how the H do you know whose petrol you are using? Do you know of any Supermarket chains that are in the Oil Production business or who own and operate refinery’s?
5 Charles Linskaill, .Edinburgh: GROW UP Brown sees the Oil industry as his cash cow. He has so overtaxed the industry that they have effectively stopped exploration or development work. BP’s Carbon capture anyone?

10 Pilrig.,Livingston See above

11 Iain fae Elgin, We used to have a car industry and a shipbuilding industry and our main income was from manufacturing. Thanks to the stupidity, greed and simple class hatred of the unions we have lost all of it. Who suffered most? Why the union members of course. The corporate bodies just picked up their marbles and moved on.

In reading some of these comments I sometimes wonder if I live in an asylum run by the nutters.

Finally Brown is in the process of slaughtering our now emaciated golden goose!!
20

Jimmy the Pie,

01/02/2008 10:30:41
If people are bothered by high diesel prices why are they not adding veggie oil to their tanks. 60p/ litre and legal!!!
21

Alternative (High Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 01/02/2008 10:31:06
Sanny,

It's good to see someone talking sense about this.
22

Alternative (High Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 01/02/2008 10:32:22
#21:

More to the point, why are they not protesting as they did when diesel broke the 70p per litre barrier?
23

Alex the wandering flanker,

Perth 01/02/2008 10:49:32
Shell is one of the UK's largest companies and it is likely that almost everyone in the land who has a pension scheme or any form of UK investment fund benefits from the success of this international company.

Tony Woodley should be ashamed of himself. It is partly through the hard work of some of his members that this company has achieved these results and doubtless they are very proud of their company's success.What his members may find obscene (since he advocates the politics of envy) is his £155k package (source AMICUS Financial statement 2006 - remuneration of General Secretary)
24

ebbi,

spain 01/02/2008 10:51:04
tony bliar referred to it as "our way of life" remember?
yes this is his and his crony's way of life.they steal from us and pay for their luxuries.we struggle to make a living.it is very simple.there are people who can not afford to have a decent meal,there are thousands of homeless on the streets freezing to death and so on but our army is fighting a war in iraq providing security for the oil companies to make sure they rake it.
yes remember the phrase "our way of life" by tony bliar.
shame on you tony bliar and all of them politicians who supported this war and now we are paying for it.
25

Sanny,

Glasgow 01/02/2008 10:52:41
22 Alternative (High Octane) Fuel Head,

I spent half my working life in the industry, including the last ten years in the Far East. It make me angry when I hear these dinosaurs from the "class war" era and their friends, the Luddite's, spout their uninformed and incorrect opinions. They have cost this country dear.

Let us hope that Salmond succeeds in obtaining Scotland's Independence and as he was involved in the oil industry, he will understand what is required to revitalise it.

There is more oil left in the North sea than we have extracted thus far. For the existing fields, we will require to further develop enhanced recovery techniques - expensive, but worthwhile in today's market. There is also untapped sources which are in deeper water and again we need to develop new engineering techniques to extract this oil.

The existing Tax regime imposed by Westminster makes further development in the North Sea an unattractive proposal.
26

Sanny,

Glasgow 01/02/2008 10:58:54
24 Alex the wandering flanker

Quote\ “What his members may find obscene (since he advocates the politics of envy) is his £155k package (source AMICUS Financial statement 2006 - remuneration of General Secretary)” /Unquote

Alex, I think you are forgetting that in the Orwellian socialist paradise that Tony Woodley promises the “workers”. Some animals are more equal than others.!!!
27

sceptic,

01/02/2008 11:02:45
"Tony Woodley, joint general-secretary of the Unite union, said: "Shell shareholders are doing very nicely while the rest of us, the stakeholders, are paying the price and struggling."
I wonder what Tony Woodley's probably "obscene" pay increase was this year? Did my pension scheme benefit from Shell's 11% increase in dividend this year? Er.... well there was an 11% increase in dividend, paid in dollars, but the actual dividend received in pounds was reduced by 10%. Wonderful an "obscene" 1% increase in income for my pension fund. Oh yes, and the share price of the Shell shares has fallen in the same period from £21.50 to £17 an "obscene" loss of 21%, and 5 times greater than the dividends received. I wonder who is being "screwed"?
28

Ard Righ,

The Rock Of Edinburgh 01/02/2008 11:14:26
"Shell and other oil companies insist they already pay high levels of tax. In 2005, Gordon Brown, then Chancellor, increased a North Sea tax on energy companies from the 10 per cent he introduced in 2002 to 20 per cent."

See Scottish Sea oil stolen by colonial imperialists.

"Fuel duty and VAT accounts for about 75 per cent of the total price of petrol." Greedy parasites.

20%
17.5%
37.5% Where is this, and under what title?

For shell alone 20% of 14B is 2.8B, not in the Scottish coffers.
If we had a barbarous 75% multiple fuel tax, that would be 9.8Billion into the Scots coffers from Shell alone, again this is not in the Scottish coffers.

An interesting figure would be last years Total for tax on the North Sea - Scottish Sea Oil would be enormous, how could we not be an independent country?

Take back the extra regio territories NOW.

29

Upbeat,

01/02/2008 12:18:51
Without profits in this industry the prospect of supplies of oil being assured into the future become even less certain.

No one should doubt that as the 'easy to extract' reserves of oil around the world become exhausted, it will be desirable to find alternative sources to meet the demand. No one should doubt that exploiting these sources will become more and more costly.

Should government respond to calls from any consumer group for these profits to be removed from the industry they will be most unwise. We all depend on future oil, and petrochemical products,there is no alternative just yet.

Are we , as consumers, really ready for the age after oil ? No, I thought not ! Are consumers really ready to front up $ billions to fund the Future exploration and technological advances planned by oil giants such as Shell. ? No, I thought not. So be glad that Shell has managed to create reserves that will ensure stability of exploration and continuity of oil supplies for a few years longer.

We are told each week that the " peak oil" situation is just around the corner. This level of profit gives a little more breathing space while the alternative propulsion systems we will eeed when oil is gone, are developed.
30

Itchy,

01/02/2008 12:22:02
#13 "I can't believe the idiotic calls for windfall taxes to be levied on Shell."

Indeed. We need more comanies making profits like Shell and fewer making losses like Northern Rock.

Maybe the unions would prefer Shell made multi-billion losses.
31

Roberta Burns,

01/02/2008 12:22:21
Shell gives capitalism a bad name - as if it needed any help.

And, as for all you union knockers, if it wasn't for the activities of unions and their reps, the work conditions offshore and onshore would give you plenty to moan about today. But, then I'm sure you're all Edinbuggers who have never seen the inside of a factory, workshop, warehouse, call centre or oil rig.

Do any of believe that big business would willingly pay all its staff a decent wage, or provide safe conditions without the continued monitoring by the trade unions?
32

drew 33,

duddingston 01/02/2008 12:36:43
#32 Roberta Burns,
Great to have your joke post to lighten up an otherwise serious thread!
33

Roberta Burns,

01/02/2008 12:37:49
33# your point is?
34

drew 33,

01/02/2008 12:59:21
That it is nice to have a resident court jester on hand.
35

John Blackley,

Winter Garden, FL 01/02/2008 23:47:22
I see all the usual arguments here - all the boos and hisses from both sides.

The fact remains that Shell pays the taxes it's told to pay. Don't like it? Not taxed enough? Then elect a government that pledges to tax the oil companies more (and good luck).

So Shell makes billions of pounds of profit. Where do you imagine those billions go?
36

Pilrig,

Livingston 02/02/2008 11:28:28
The JR Ewings are dominating this threid with a vengeance.

In answer to John Blackley (not THE JB the great Hibbie surely ?) where does Shell's billions go. Not to fixing their Lizzie Brice tyre gauge that's for certain !

 

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