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Minister says Holyrood powers are 'McChattering classes issue'



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Published Date: 13 February 2008
THE case for Scotland having more powers was dismissed as a topic for debate among the "McChattering classes" by a Scotland Office minister, in a blow to Wendy Alexander's constitution commission.
David Cairns said there was no need for Scotland to have more tax raising powers and that the debate instead should be around service delivery. "The government's position is that we think the current fiscal arrangements benefit Scotland, that there a
re stable, transparent increases in public spending in Scotland," he told a newspaper.

The Inverclyde MP admitted Labour was at fault for allowing the myth to grow that the party sees Scotland as "feeble and has to cling to England before it can achieve anything".

He called for a reframing of the debate around what was in the interests of "ordinary families". The powers of the parliament was a "McChattering classes issue, it's the most inward-looking notion that it begins and ends with discussion about more powers," he said.

The remarks threaten to undermine claims by Ms Alexander that Gordon Brown supports the constitution commission she helped set up.

Although publicly Number 10 has given its support for the commission, the Prime Minister and Labour MPs are annoyed at Ms Alexander for giving too much succour to the Nationalists' argument.

The SNP said London seemed to be stamping its authority over the commission.

SNP MSP Keith Brown said: "Wendy Alexander's commission and her credibility appear to be in real trouble."



The full article contains 250 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 12 February 2008 9:31 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
 
1

OscarMacApfel,

Dumfries 13/02/2008 00:32:01
Yet an anonymous 'senior figure in Wendy Alexander's back-room team' claims that Cairns is looking at the situation through the wrong end of the telescope. How woeful it must be to be a Labour supporter these days.
2

Senga Jean,

Scotland 13/02/2008 00:49:23
Cairns is a sad ,smug ,condescending Unionist of the erroneously labelled Strathclyde persuasion of NuLabour MPs.( The error? Gordon Brown is their leader) He sees nothing of merit in Scotland and stamps on any hopeful aspirations. He loathes his own origins and like a latter day Mrs Bucket will only speak to the ennobled (like George FFFFoulkes)
3

,

13/02/2008 00:57:01
Comment Removed By Administrator
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4

beckypumps1,

Fife 13/02/2008 01:20:19
What an offensive comment to make. I am going to have a look at Mr Cairns expenses to make sure he has been doing no unintentional wrongdoing; you never know he may be in sync with the rest of his party after all.I have also posted this comment on the Heralds sight,
5

Matt there,

somewhere 13/02/2008 01:20:42
"Here, Wendy! Bend over whilst I kick you really hard."

6

Richardinho,

13/02/2008 01:42:13
If I was a Labour MSP, I'd be absolutely furious at this heavy handed slapdown of Wendy Alexander by London Labour.
7

Very Rev Ian Paisley,

13/02/2008 01:44:04
Someone in the Labour party talking about service delivery?

All they served up over the last 50 years has been deprivation, ill health, poverty, obesity et al.
8

Richardinho,

13/02/2008 01:57:21
Someone should really take Cairns aside and point out that whilst belittling Scotland plays well with amongst other Westminster Scottish MPs, it's not such a smart line to take at Holyrood where MSPs are put under far more scrutiny.
9

Jimmy the Pie,

13/02/2008 02:13:12
Just another, soon to be looser. Anyone seen oor favourite Irishman, AM2?? Where is he???
10

a proud doonhamer,

Dumfries 13/02/2008 02:32:02
9

I think he is now calling himself,

Proud to be Scottish.
11

Castaway,

13/02/2008 02:46:11
Perhaps David Cairns is concerned about the workload the present Scottish Scottish constituency MP's undertake in Westminster and does not want anymore erosion?

What have Scottish MPs done since devolution? A lot less work;
The Sunday Herald, Jan 26, 2003

Scottish MPs take part in less than half the votes in Westminster, falling far below the levels even for their Welsh counterparts, while their workload in scrutinising government has plummeted since the Scottish parliament was set up.
The definitive study of devolution throughout the UK has found that Scottish MPs' participation rate in House of Commons votes, which hovered above the 50% mark in 1999-2000, fell to 48% in 2001, the year of the last Westminster election. That compares with a Welsh voting record at 63%, which was slightly above even that of English MPs.
The think-tank research, based on House of Commons statistics, also found the number of oral and written questions asked by Scottish MPs has more than halved since the creation of the Scottish parliament. Time for monthly Scottish questions at Westminster has been halved to 30 minutes, and rarely extends beyond the second or third query on the order paper.

12

Andrew D,

13/02/2008 02:59:55
McChattering classes!?

It would be bad enough referring to the politically active people as the chattering classes yet somehow going that step further and calling Scots that is acceptable?

Far OUT.

All I can say is that from this I hope that the Labour MSPs realise there is ONE place where you COULD actually help set the agenda to discuss this stuff and it is not under Gordon Brown's thumb in Westminster but in the Scottish Parliament and the debate (and national conversation) there.

McChattering classes. That's a disgrace.
13

Jimmy the Pie,

13/02/2008 03:04:23
AM2 = O'Chattering classes?????
14

Wisnaeme,

13/02/2008 04:47:05
.

It appears that is not only Mr Cairns that has condescended to give an opinion of what is desirable amongst the McChattering classes.

Apparently, we are about to have a colonial visitation from someone a little bit more sleekit than Mr Cairns.

An emissary from the State within the State suitably disguised as a Tory and a former employee of the UK spook trade, no less.

Enter stage right, Mr Andrew Fulton, former "head of station" in Washington and latterly, an adviser to a rather well known firm that provides security services to governments and large corporations amongst their other expert services.

Rather an impressive CV, one that seems to indicate rather a plethora of over qualification for the lowly position of Chairman of the Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party. I was not aware that the present temporary chairman, Mr Mundell MP had need of such 'special talents' as Mr Fulton has acquired in the service of his past employers. But there appears to be one or two items of "accomplishment" missing from his CV. That seems a bit odd, shurely shum mistake as 007 would say.

Like for example, the part Mr Fulton played in being ever so helpful to the media whilst being a member of the Lockerbie Trial Briefing Unit. But I'm sure he carried out his remit with absolutely no interference from 'special interests' as in governments, corporations and 'security'. Being an ever so dedicated purveyor and insidious seeker of the truth such as himself, I'm sure.

He will have a warm welcome back to his homeland ,as on the occasions of his visitations to Glasgow University no doubt.

...and I'm positive that the McChattering classes will take more than a passing interest in his progress of further accomplishments, being so capable an operator as he was in the past, when embedded in the Lockerbie Trial Briefing Unit..

.
15

Very Rev Ian Paisley,

13/02/2008 06:14:17
Yer no McChattering from the pulpit now son
16

,

13/02/2008 06:51:15
Comment Removed By Administrator
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17

James,

Dundee 13/02/2008 06:51:34
What with Eva Broon, The Alexander Sisters, and Cairns-no-mhor the SLAB sitcom is reminiscent of 'All gas and gaiters'.
David=Derek Nimmo of course.
18

Richard Taylor,

Aberdeen 13/02/2008 07:19:13
Labour, please exit Scotland - stage left...or is that stage right?
19

Auld Twa,

Edinburgh 13/02/2008 07:22:03
How would the British Parliament and Labour Party react if the Tories, LibDems and Nationalist MEPs were invited to a similar summit over EC "devolution" proposals.
It is an insult to all Scots that Labour has seen fit to convene this talking shop without as much as an invitation to the party we elected to government at Holyrood.
20

Farky,

Edinburgh 13/02/2008 08:04:50
Labour are running scared. The SNP ARE making devolution work, and work in the best interestes of Scotland. The arrogance displayed by Cairns is endemic throughout Whitehall, they can't stand the thought of a "grown up" Scottish Parliament!
21

Roy,

13/02/2008 08:59:31
Keep it coming Quisling Cairns.
22

AJ Fife,

13/02/2008 09:27:31
Sounds like Cairns will be first in line for a bit of "re-education" when the historic day comes!

Does anyone know where you get cheap jump leads and car batteries these days?
23

A Scott,

Glasgow 13/02/2008 09:33:17
#6 Richardino....No you wouldnt ..Being a Labour MSP you would take the money and do what your London Masters tell you.
24

Shireman,

Kilspindie 13/02/2008 09:46:04
Another great headline, and another great day, ..for the SNP!
This is fast becomming a revolution that most people are happy to go along with. as most people are seeing the kind of change they want, while witnessing in spectacular clarity everything that was wrong with a unionist led Scotland. The SNP has no need for seedy propaganda machinery as the other parties are all employing theirs to the benefit of the nationalists, and the undoubted long term detriment of themselves. The futures bright, the futures free.
25

Ananurhing,

13/02/2008 09:53:04
This junior neo-colonialist Cairns isn't even part of the Scottish political scene, yet feels he is empowered to issue dictats from another country, against the political will of the Scottish people. Astonishing arrogance which must be answered.
Surely this must be a signal that Scottish labour have to operate independently, without having to grovel to their masters for permission.
He has no political mandate in Scotland. This is bordering on fascism.
The large majority of Scots want some kind of change, and an irrelevant junior minister says NO!
McChattering classes?????? Condescending git!!!!!!!!
26

Queen D,

Glasgow 13/02/2008 10:02:15
Proud Donnhammer, he may be pompous, he may be a cut and paste demon ,but , please! Even I have to defend AM2 against that dreadful slur! No way can he be compared to the blinkered one!
27

Hamish Scott,

13/02/2008 10:12:41
Gordon Brown's interpretation of self determination is that it will all be determined by himself.
28

Miss H,

13/02/2008 10:28:36
labour are fracturing on different levels. Councillors against MSPs. MSPs against MPs. They need to sit down and think what Scottish Labour is actually for.

Then and only then will they begin to recover.
29

alanh,

ek 13/02/2008 10:37:40
could this be a Baldrick style "cunning plan" by the Nu lab party?
westminster say she is talking garbage aboout more powers and she flies in to seize more powers telling them that holyrood msps will say whats to happen.

In one (very)foul stroke she looks like she is cutting the apron strings from westminster nu lab and showing strong leadership.

Alternatively she could roll over, as the nu lab (north brit dept) leaders usually do and get them to tickle her tummy.
30

Splashie,

13/02/2008 10:56:20
Labour's meltdown into sleaze, incompetence and division is just embarrassing to behold now.

McChattering Classes - what an odd way for Cairns to describe the Unionist parties who have all been off to London for a McChatter on this issue. What an unfortunate turn of phrase given Andy Kerr is being investigated by the fiscal for law breaking over MacDonald's hospitality.

Was Labour's weird and shambolic decision note to vote on the budget, and now to have total chaos around their devolution policy, some cunning way to bolster the credibility of Wendy's "fiasco" defence for illegal donations?
31

,

13/02/2008 11:32:59
Comment Removed By Administrator
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32

,

13/02/2008 11:51:33
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
33

Ananurhing,

13/02/2008 12:34:17
This is like pre-devolution Scotland. When Scotland voted labour but got tory colonial rule in the form of the Scottish Office.
Is this not the democratic defecit that devolution was supposed to address?

Well done Cairns! A masterclass in everything thats wrong with the current settlement, and a reminder of what we really needed to change!

What's astonishing is that he thinks it's okay to address us like this, and that he thinks we're going to buy it!

Scottish labour demonstrating yet again, just how much they've lost it!
34

Disputer,

13/02/2008 12:39:37
32

You're not Ayrshire Scot. You're a nonentity who's nicked his id. You are not the voice of Scotland. You do not have the courage of your own convictions. If you did you'd get your own id. As it is, you change id regularly and blow with the wind.
35

Disputer,

13/02/2008 12:40:01
In short...you blow...and suck.
36

Ananurhing,

13/02/2008 12:55:50
35# Disputer

He's a very strange phenomenon. What's the point if everyone knows he's a fakey? He's the first "tribute" poster I've come across. Looks the part, with none of the talent.
I think it's a kind of hero worship that's become psychologicaly twisted. Perhaps his hero spurned him once, and now he wants to consume his idol.
A cyber stalking tribute posting Hannibal!!!!!!!!
Any psychiatric professionals out there got an opinion on this behaviour!
More worryingly has anyone seen the real Ayrshire?
37

,

13/02/2008 13:30:20
Comment Removed By Administrator
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38

Queen D,

Glasgow 13/02/2008 13:30:59
Not seen the real Ayrshire for a long time.
And I miss him!
39

Disputer,

13/02/2008 13:38:17
I'm sure he's around.
40

The west awake,

Argyll 13/02/2008 13:39:28
Penseroso
"Ayrshire Scot tm Just have a look round Ayrshire and see the decay left by so-called Labour rule over the past eleven years. It's almost a deserted village and you still want to be part of a proven disatrous regime at Westminster!You sound like the mindless comments from a Maybole pub on a Friday night!Look at the mess overseen by the likes of Lord George Foulkes, another drunk from Ayrshire! Take a dive into Troon Harbour and waken up!"

- Couldn't have put it better myself! I would only add the comments of yon LABOUR figure a year or so ago, who compared parts of Ayrshire with a Soviet state. - Never heard any more from him incidentally.
41

Eve,

Scotland 13/02/2008 13:41:30
I have Questons about the apparent McChattering classes. Here are the 3 of them:

Are they considered to be the lowst or one of the lowist classes within the UK?

Who made this lable up? Was it really David Cairns!!!!

Is the lable disigned as a stigma or a badge to have some pride in?

42

Geoff,

sa 13/02/2008 13:47:49
39 Queen D-actually so do I-where is our Mutual Friend?
43

Potato Eater,

13/02/2008 13:50:40
#37 Ananurhing: I’d be concerned for the wellbeing of the real Ayrshire Scot, if I were you! If I’m right the poster at #32 may have taken the real Ayrshire’s moniker as some kind of trophy after heaving his corpse along the River Ayr Way! Why is he seeking to subvert all that Ayrshire stood for, if he is indeed a “tribute”? Is he trying to re-invent Ayrshire in his own image in some kind of a gruesome cyber re-enactment of the Pygmalion Myth?
44

Eve,

Scotland 13/02/2008 13:53:18
#19 Auld Twa: Are you really suprised!!!

I'm NOT!! The job centre and serveal other work agencies alike doesnae even allow us to be Scottish, "when asking what you idetfy your self as".

That always gets to me!!!

I don't trust the union, I hope it ends soon!!!
45

Disputer,

13/02/2008 13:59:22
44

This poster is the Bizarro version - the exact opposite of the real Ayrshire (if you know your superman).
46

Disputer,

13/02/2008 14:01:33
He clones IDs. He posts nonsense. He really doesn't know what he stands for so hides behind a legit moniker. He actually posts some sense away from the politics pages, but no point in getting into a discussion with him. He's all over the place. Someone said he thought he was the previous Maltese Falcon, or SunShine. I tend to agree.
47

Eve,

Scotland 13/02/2008 14:03:15
Came across this web site, which same to suggest the possibility that Gordons been hiding something from us!!!!
http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?p=3430376
48

Disputer,

13/02/2008 14:24:11
BYW Wee Berty

You are the same poster who bombarded the Herald about Argowan school...remember? You also took a flakie on a Scotsman thread in March last year about the same issue.

http://news.scotsman.com/ViewArticle.aspx?articleid=3355848&bad=461772
49

Disputer,

13/02/2008 14:24:35
oops...wrong thread!
50

Eve,

Scotland 13/02/2008 14:36:38
It really does seem that the Labour party in London and the Labour party in Edinburgh are NOT on the same wave line. In fact it would appear that some MP's the ones who spend more time in London than any where else are at 12mounths behind the understanding of those who spend all/ most of their time in Scotland

Interesting article in the Sunday Hearld. It appears that that Gorden wants to control Wendy and she been left outside the conversation about considering giving Holyrood more powers.

http://www.sundayherald.co.uk/news/heraldnews/display.var.2032977.0.0.php
51

Miss H,

13/02/2008 16:33:22
32 Ayrshire Scot - the Daily Record has been getting stuck in to Wendy on a regular basis these past few months.

And it was the Scottish Sun that got the scoop on the stairhead rammy that errupted between Labour councillors and Labour MSPs at Glasgow city chambers the other week. Guess what that was about? They actually had to call security to break it up...

It was after that particular meeting that a labour councillor was quoted in the evening times as saying 'God Bless the SNP Government'.

Soap operas do not get better than this, ho ho ho.
52

Highland Mighty,

13/02/2008 18:06:05
Posts 1,2,3 & 4 = the same person?
53

Splashie,

13/02/2008 18:18:15
Post 53 = a sad post spotter?
54

Disputer,

13/02/2008 18:28:49
Post 54 = a spotter of sad poster spotter
55

Disputer,

13/02/2008 18:29:39
Post 55 = a non-disputer of a spotter of a sad poster spotter....or something of that ilk...
56

Highland Mighty,

13/02/2008 18:36:07
Were they you Ayrshire Scot/Nova Scotia/Splashe?

Have you been up to the same old tired routine of having multiple usernames to exaggerate those thin nationalist ranks?
57

Splashie,

13/02/2008 18:43:00
57 said English Voice posting under yet another name.....yawn
58

OscarMacApfel,

Dumfries 13/02/2008 18:46:52
Actually, now that you ask, the first 52 posts were mine.
59

Splashie,

13/02/2008 18:47:59
56 Have fixed (ish) my hpb piano bar pass - but seems not to work for your ID......
60

Richard,

West Lothian 13/02/2008 18:54:57
Highland Mighty = Quisling cringer!
61

Splashie,

13/02/2008 18:55:21
59. No, I am Sparticus. Captain, my captain!
62

Splashie,

13/02/2008 18:55:42
61. He is probably ginger to boot.
63

OscarMacApfel,

Dumfries 13/02/2008 20:02:32
He's a minger

he's a ginger

he's a quisling cringer

Some people call him Maurice.
64

Eve,

Scotland 13/02/2008 21:26:27
#59 OscarMacApfel: Aye, right!!!

Be careful that poster seems to be a wee bit prone to being gullible!!!
65

glassbenmhor,

13/02/2008 22:13:36
Well Annabell we I'm sure will welcome Mr Fulton back to Scotland but I can assure you that an extremely close eye will be kept upon the soul.If I might be so bold as to ask if the gentleman can shed any light upon an incident that happened along a lonely Highland Lochside road and the death of a senior Nationalist Politician back in the 70's?????????????

 

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