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Minister gaffes over plan for 'Britishness Day' party



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Published Date: 04 June 2008
A UK government minister was accused of a "cack-handed" gaffe after suggesting a "Britishness day" on the August Bank Holiday – but failing to realise it falls on different days in Scotland and England.
Liam Byrne, the immigration minister, said the "national day of celebration" – involving street parties, carnivals and sporting events – could help to promote a common British identity.

Mr Byrne, tipped as a future Cabinet minister in the next res
huffle, said it would help promote "shared standards" that provide a social glue at a time of high immigration.

But the SNP pointed out that the summer Bank holiday falls on 4 August this year in Scotland – but 25 August in the rest of the UK.

Angus Robertson, the SNP leader at Westminster, said: "Labour's British 'national' holiday plan has fallen at the first hurdle. Liam Byrne's proposal has nothing to do with Britishness, and everything to do with bolstering Gordon Brown as Labour's support evaporates in swing English regions.

"Labour's cack-handed attempts to resuscitate a British 'national' identity are just desperate, motivated by self-interest rather than national interest."

Holding the day on an existing Bank holiday would rule out the call from Lord Goldsmith, who recently published a report on UK citizenship, for an extra public holiday.

Mr Byrne accused his critics of "slightly barking up the wrong tree".







The full article contains 231 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 03 June 2008 10:10 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
 
1

karinxxx,

04/06/2008 00:08:15
Mr Byrne accused his critics of "slightly barking up the wrong tree

What does this mean does this mean they were slightly right they were slightly wrong and therefore mostly right or is byrne just barking if he doesnt understand that scotland doesnt want to be part of britain.
2

the_figures_are _fudged,

Galashiels 04/06/2008 00:15:22
Perhaps if we paid them more they would not make asinine statements like the above ?

Nope didnt think so either.

This isnt about a holiday it is about Bean trying to manipulate voters.
3

,

04/06/2008 00:23:10
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4

Royster,

04/06/2008 00:23:54
#1. As a unionist, I agree. Also, why do we need a Britishness day? Whole idea is bonkers as far as I am concerned.
5

Highland Mighty,

04/06/2008 00:30:38
Keep it up, SNP! This type of petty over-reaction is doing your reputation wonders!
6

Hmm ...,

04/06/2008 00:32:01
... Britishness Day organised by the immigration minister! Now that IS really droll!
7

Hmm ...,

04/06/2008 00:33:38
... now, which has less credibility - Gordon Brown or Highland Mighty? Hard one to call, I can't distinguish between their grasp on reality.
8

Highland Mighty,

04/06/2008 00:37:43
9. And the insults begin immediately.

The nationalists continue to demonstrate why they are STILL the fringe of Scotland.

Just how is that "surging support" for independence going? Still exactly the same as it was a year ago? Still half what it was two years ago?

Fan. Tastic.
9

Highland Mighty,

04/06/2008 00:39:31
10/11. Make your mind up! Is it 68% or 63%?

Maybe it's growing by the second....is it perhaps 74% now?
10

Scotindy,

Los Angeles 04/06/2008 00:45:19
Do the british really know who or what they are, because I do'nt??? They are as confused as ever and obviously nead to be reminded of what they think they are.Me I'M SCOTTISH AND PROUD to be part of a GREAT NATION who are just about to DECLARE INDEPENDENCE from the rabble south of Hadrians wall.Good luck to them and their street parties.
11

,

04/06/2008 00:50:32
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12

Highland Mighty,

04/06/2008 00:51:31
14. Yet more insults.

How about the polls that show support for independence hasn't budged in the past year despite countless efforts by Toad of Toad Hall to get the Scots and the English to hate each other?

Such an admirable and progressive strategy. Something to be truly proud of.

And now the first results of SNP policies are being uncovered. Police numbers are actually DOWN totally destroying SNP promises that they would increase police numbers by 1,000. School classes will not meet SNP promises either. Student debt is untouched despite another (empty) promise.

SNP = Lies and hatred.

Truly pathetic.
13

,

04/06/2008 00:52:12
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14

,

04/06/2008 00:54:57
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15

Highland Mighty,

04/06/2008 00:55:10
Tell you what, Salmond can always make another grand promise yet only provide paltry funding.

£600,000 to set up a "national sports academy network"?

Well, seeing that Celtic spend £1.5 million EACH YEAR just on their Academy, suggests that this SNP promise is yet another empty vessel.
16

Highland Mighty,

04/06/2008 00:56:21
And yet all the nationalists can offer is more and more insults!

Keep them coming as they just show how devoid of substance your claims are!

LOL!
17

Highland Mighty,

04/06/2008 01:01:46
Well, I'm off to bed as some of us actually have a job.

Can't spend all day, every day, blitzing countless websites and online polls like the sad little nats.
18

,

04/06/2008 01:02:10
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19

Andrew BOD,

Aberdeen/shire 04/06/2008 01:06:08
Highland says:

"Well, I'm off to bed as some of us actually have a job.

Can't spend all day, every day, blitzing countless websites and online polls like the sad little nats."

Night night Highland. Time to cuddle up with your big ego.
20

Anack,

Liverpool 04/06/2008 01:13:19
Im English but have never considered myself as British just like the majority of Scots say they are not British.

This Highland Mighty male/female person says he has a job ? and yet he has posted 7 times in the space of 35 mins. He is a idiot and i hope he is not English, i rather presume he is one of them British empire biscuit types. The type that likes the sound of his own voice and never shuts up. Yes i thought so.
21

LEAL,

04/06/2008 01:15:39
Where was all the "celebrating britishness" last year-the 300th anniversary of the act of union.I didnt notice many street parties.Not even a wee bit of bunting.The fact is only a handful of "scots"feel really passionate about being british.Real Scots feel less and less british as each day passes.
22

Anack,

Liverpool 04/06/2008 01:20:35
28 LEAL

They did hold a wee street party outside my local pub in the Belle Vale area of Liverpool but when the ice cream van came they soon abandoned the strret party. I have never seen three people run so fast in my life.

I had a good chuckle to myself.
23

Anack,

Liverpool 04/06/2008 01:23:58
This Highland mighty creature needs dissected and fed as pig offal to carnivorous sheep hell bent on telling porkies
24

,

04/06/2008 01:30:00
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25

,

04/06/2008 01:36:10
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26

Richardinho,

04/06/2008 01:46:43
I think we should have an 'Ashamed to be British Day', instead.
27

Guga II,

Rockall 04/06/2008 01:48:23
There were no celebrations for the 300th anniversary of the Treaty of Union, just as there will be no street parties to celebrate "Britishness".

Maggie Broon may consider himself to be "North British", at least that is what he calls himself, but the greater majority of the people in Scotland consider themselves to be Scottish.

I have yet to meet one person on the islands that considers themselves to be "British". Even the English incomers here consider themselves English, not British.

No doubt the New Labour Sleaze and Corruption Party (North British Branch) may well try and organise the odd street party, to keep their political masters in London happy, but it will only be a few card acrrying party members that will attend.

#26 Anack. Yes, that raving idiot, High & Mighty, is English.

28

,

04/06/2008 01:52:12
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29

Scottish Politics,

04/06/2008 02:55:57
I propose a "No Longer British" Day, aka Independence Day, around St. Andrew's Day 2010! :)
30

donald,

glasgow 04/06/2008 04:32:24
How about a Broon Day for Engurland?
31

Graeme,

Guangzhou 04/06/2008 04:41:16
Gaga, #39,

That’s why you have no mates! You also run around the islands ranting to anyone who will listen (or who cant get away) your anti English racist bent.

I still have an accurate profile of you as a little barrel chested bearded man. How close to the mark?

Top tip to get invited out more….Oh forget it.
32

Jimmy the Pie,

04/06/2008 05:18:01
Well I certainly won't be taking part in any morris dancing parties. You can poke that one Byrne!

Utter rubbish again from a failed party.

Will the Hootsmoan be giving away free Union Jacks???
33

Royster,

04/06/2008 05:46:47
#42. With regards to the oil fund, you have the benefit of hindsight. In the 1970s there was no devolution so everything went into one pot... and it still does. I think an oil fund is a poor idea; at some point some smart a#se will come along and blow it all anyway. If governments get cash, they should immediately give it back to the people instead of hoarding it as the people will have a better idea of what to do with it. Just creates more civil servants. As for cash dividends for local residents from an oil fund, that would be reflected in day to day living. For example, in Hong Kong and Jersey, taxes are low but that is refelected in the higher price of houses which isn't a bad thing if you own one.
34

Royster,

04/06/2008 05:47:51
#46. Prime Ministers of the UK have more power than mediaeval monarchs - Tony Benn. So what? They are very rarely used.
35

Colin Wilson,

Aberdeen 04/06/2008 06:44:17
It's a pity Angus Robertson can't make his point without using a derogatory term for the left-handed.
36

,

04/06/2008 06:55:05
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37

Itchy,

04/06/2008 06:55:11
"Liam Byrne's proposal has nothing to do with Britishness, and everything to do with bolstering Gordon Brown as Labour's support evaporates in swing English regions. "

Spot on. Useless tokenism at its' worst from a party that will not rest until they have bled the country dry with tax.
38

,

04/06/2008 06:56:10
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39

,

04/06/2008 07:17:13
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40

kimba,

04/06/2008 07:21:58
This has really got the nats in overdrive,"BRITISH DAY heaven forbid,call a medic think salmond is in apoplectic shock!
41

an interested party,

04/06/2008 07:27:12
and there is the rub with the english, they have little idea of the difference between british and english. they confuse the two to suit themselves
42

kimba,

04/06/2008 07:33:00
64. SORRY, It's not England having the screaming hab-dabs about breaking up GB,so you tell me how you would define "BRITISHNESS".
43

Louis Catorze,

04/06/2008 07:39:19
"Slightly barking up the wrong tree.."

woof as opposed to WOOF?
44

Guga II,

Rockall 04/06/2008 07:39:52
#49 Gruamach.

I've told you before little man, you really do have a little man's inferiority complex.

Incidentally, I probably have more mates than you have had hot dinners.

Why do you hide away in China anyway? Did someone frighten you and you ran away?
45

,

04/06/2008 07:51:49
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46

,

04/06/2008 07:53:16
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47

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

04/06/2008 07:54:02
The whole concept of a "Britishness day" is just too jingoistic for me. If we were to have a UK-wide national holiday I would prefer to have something more akin to the likes of Martin Luther King day in the US.
48

,

04/06/2008 08:14:15
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49

Calum Crubag,

04/06/2008 08:37:37
Typical English ignorance. The Yanks of Europe.

Maybe though a big 'Brit Party' with New Labour, Tories, Lib Dems, BNP and the Orange Order would be interesting.
50

Calum Crubag,

04/06/2008 08:39:07
Forgot Robert Kilroy Silk - he's big on 'Britishness' too isn't he? What a role model for Brit Unionism?! He sits with Enoch Powell and Iain Paisley. Then there's yon 'Mad Dog' UVF guy...
51

Huntly loon,

Aberdeenshire 04/06/2008 08:48:33
St Andrew's day is hardly celebrated in Scotland. The chance of a Britishness day being anything more than 'B&Q' Day or 10-Pin Bowling Day would really be a triumph of hope over experience for the unionists. Britishness day is nothing other than a 'What can we do to save New Labour' Day
52

Truely English,

04/06/2008 09:00:37
It is clear for all to see that the Scots are just as English as the English if not more so. Go to Inverness and sample the culture I did a few weeks ago.

A British Day is needed to celebrate our oneness in language, culture and country.
53

Truely English,

04/06/2008 09:03:50
70

We are all British because the British language is English and we all speak English or a variety of English.
54

Guga II,

Rockall 04/06/2008 09:06:44
#76 & #77.

Garbage.
55

Nikostratos,

04/06/2008 09:09:04
The British


Take some Picts, Celts and Silures
And let them settle,
Then overrun them with Roman conquerors.

Remove the Romans after approximately 400 years
Add lots of Norman French to some
Angles, Saxons, Jutes and Vikings, then stir vigorously.

Mix some hot Chileans, cool Jamaicans, Dominicans,
Trinidadians and Bajans with some Ethiopians, Chinese,
Vietnamese and Sudanese.

Then take a blend of Somalians, Sri Lankans, Nigerians
And Pakistanis,
Combine with some Guyanese
And turn up the heat.

Sprinkle some fresh Indians, Malaysians, Bosnians,
Iraqis and Bangladeshis together with some
Afghans, Spanish, Turkish, Kurdish, Japanese
And Palestinians
Then add to the melting pot.

Leave the ingredients to simmer.

As they mix and blend allow their languages to flourish
Binding them together with English.

Allow time to be cool.

Add some unity, understanding, and respect for the future,
Serve with justice
And enjoy.

Note: All the ingredients are equally important. Treating one ingredient better than another will leave a bitter unpleasant taste.

Warning: An unequal spread of justice will damage the people and cause pain. Give justice and equality to all.

Benjamin Zephaniah


56

Nikostratos,

04/06/2008 09:09:59
NOT TO MENTION..

3 Brit’s die each year testing if a 9v battery works on their tongue.
142 Brit’s were injured in 1999 by not removing all pins from new shirts.
58 Brit’s are injured each year by using sharp knives instead of screwdrivers.
31 Brit’s have died since 1996 by watering their Christmas tree while the fairy lights were plugged in.
19 Brit’s have died in the last 3 years believing that Christmas decorations were chocolate.
British Hospitals reported 4 broken arms last year after Xmas cracker-pulling accidents.
18 Brit’s had serious burns in 2000 trying on a new jumper with a lit cigarette in their mouth.
A massive 543 Brit’s were admitted to A&E in the last two years after trying to open bottles of beer with their teeth.
5 Brit’s were injured last year in accidents involving out-of-control Scalextric cars.
and finally…

In 2000 eight Brit’s were admitted to hospital with fractured skulls incurred whilst throwing up into the toilet
57

bill-alba,

fife 04/06/2008 09:14:02
Kimba..the fact that the Britnats are proposing a "britishness day" indicates that its the british unionists who are going into overdrive, seemingly we've managed 300 years without one and when they do propose one..surprise surprise its to be on an English bank holiday..don't you think its just a wee bit ironic that yet again Scotland is forgotten when they propose these things..
77. If you ever leave england and visit northern europe you will find that the peoples in these countries speak much better english that most on these Islands..and perhaps you should look again at your statement "the British language is English" isnt gaelic on par with english and I'm positive that Welsh and English have parity..but of course your English so everyone on these islands are as well...(same as your holidays).
58

brownlie,

04/06/2008 09:15:43
76 Truely English

Next time you go to Inverness pop into the "Tarry Ile" and inform them that they are more English than Scottish - then pop into Raigmore!!
59

Micropacer,

04/06/2008 09:19:04
Truely English im from and live in Inverness and I wouldnt call it English. What I would say is that there is little or no difference between the average English and Scottish person.

Lots of small minded Scots and English think their is but if you travel and have friends in both countries you will soon see there isnt.

The Highlands for instance has a lot more in common with more rural parts of England that it ever will with Uraban Celtral belt Scotland - which has far more in common with areas like Birmingham etc.

Why do people - a minority - but a huge majority on here - seem so desperate to be different when they are the same? Some on the Scots on here are an embarrasment to Scotland.

If the vote was tommorrow id vote for Independence by the way. Not because us "Scots" are some uber-race with a different culture from England (wrong) but because someone needs to get a grip of the country and give it a shake. Our infrastructure and industries are a shambles.

As for this:

"Now lets have a look at all the britishness rubbish.

Belief that they were Scottish – 28%
Belief that they were more Scottish than British – 35%
Belief that they were equally British and Scottish – 29%
Belief that they were more British than Scottish – 3%
Belief that they were British and not Scottish – 3%
No thoughts on the issue – 2%
"

That tells us that 70% are ok being British. Which I probably am too and so are most of the people I know. Im more Scottish than British but it doesnt both me being British.

With the posts on here you would think 70% of Scots would have nothing to do with that dirty word Britain.

MOST PEOPLE just dont care. We have jobs, families & lives. What you call the area of land we live on is irrelevant. We want to be happy, earn a living and make the most of things.

You could change the name Scotland to Timbucktoo and most wouldnt care. Some on here need a reality check.
60

bill-alba,

fife 04/06/2008 09:29:48
#83 your data like all that produced by all britnat is totally wrong. The point that there are similarities to places in England is hardly surprising take a trip to europe you may find the same..
I take it from your comments that you are an internationalist which is fine..but most of us live in the real world and what the area of land is called does make a difference and that is because of treaties etc with other pieces of land so while timbucktoo exists so does Scotland where more than 70% of the people do care.
61

,

04/06/2008 09:32:00
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62

Ananurhing,

04/06/2008 09:35:51
The term " British" is a bit like "European". It's a geographical term.

The only time I have ever referred to myself as being British, is to patronise someone from overseas. Usually Aussie pals attempting to wind me up.

" No matter where you go in this world outside of your motherland, you will always be a foreigner, where as I will always be British!"

Totally inane, but effective, as it conforms to many peoples preconceptions of Britishness!

Most Scots I've met who refer to themselves as "British", do so with the same cringe mentality as Guptha from 'It Aint Half Hot Mum'. "Ve British, aach tooo!"
It's an attempt to distance themselves from some element of their fellow countrymen, for which they feel shame or antipathy.

It's an increasingly irrelevant term. Most English friends I know refer to themselves as English, and use the same term to describe UK institutions. Government, army, country etc.

Desperate stuff from a nation undergoing an identity crisis.
63

Iain's,

Barcelona 04/06/2008 09:40:59
You could not make it up could you?

The last fool to push Britishness was James 1 of England. I think I note similarities with Gordon Browne.
64

,

04/06/2008 09:41:59
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65

Alan B,

04/06/2008 09:44:34
the whole britiness thing seems to be just desperation. in itself it shows the whole thing is falling apart.
66

Graeme,

Guangzhou 04/06/2008 09:46:56
#83, Your right about the minority. It’s called the ‘little man (with a beard) syndrome’. If they did not have the English to target they would be infighting again. They give Scotland bad name. But luckily most of the English, certainly the ones I know understand this. As a whole the Scottish nation is happy to call themselves Scottish within Britain. That wont change either. That’s why you get so many ranters on these posts! They have no other outlet. The silent majority as you mention are more than happy just to get on with their lives.
67

Green booger,

04/06/2008 09:50:54
'Britishness day', from the rogue government that has given our country away to Brussels. The entire NuLab cabinet, many former Tory leaders and HM the Queen will have to answer for their treason.

A six ft drop at the end of a noose is too good for most of them.

HM the Queen is the first monarch in our history to have broken her Coronation Oath. She has signed our country away. Bearing in mind, she is from German stock!


68

Mr. Lachie Todd,

Edinburgh 04/06/2008 09:52:11
In 2006, Lord(Kenneth)Baker of Dorking, one of Margaret Thatcher's Ministers, publicly stated in the media:
"The United Kingdom is an artificial unitary State and not a real nation"!

This from a member of the Conservative and UNIONIST
Party?! His observation must be valid?

Otherwise, why would the 26 Counties of the present Republic of Ireland fight a bloody campaign to secede from this unitary State!

Why, even after a 30 year violent interregnum, is it still the aim of Sinn Fein and the SDLP to bring about a United Ireland?

Why is the Scottish National Party the devolved government at the Scottish Parliament?

Why is Plaid Cymru in coalition with Labour in Wales?

IF, the United Kingdom was a truly united nation like
the United States of America and France there would be no support for any form of separatist Nationalist parties!





69

The Former Mr. Angry,

Perth 04/06/2008 09:53:35
Shows you where we fit in to the "Britishness" equation.

Don't know why Broon, or McBroon as he's known dah sarf, doesn't just have the operation and emerge to paraphrase our "Little Britain" David Walliams "I am Englishman and I do what Englishmen do".

It is just utterly inept - he must have been reading a highly theoretical political marketing/spin textbook to come up with this one. Why can't he just admit he's from Kirkcaldy - nothing to be ashamed of is it?
70

Arfur,

04/06/2008 09:53:43
I would stake my house that a 'Britishness Day' street party on Lothian road would actually reduce the number of people on that street that day. 99% of who would be there would not give two hoots as they would be there shopping then you would have a wee circle of knuckle draggers with union jacks which would probably consist of AM2/Highland Mighty (thats one by the way), Nikostratos and Kimba. Tomatoes at the ready guys.
71

,

04/06/2008 10:04:45
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72

kimba,

04/06/2008 10:14:31
68. well my definition would be, the coming together of all parts of the union that make up Great Britain, its supporting the British army, its supporting our olympic atheletes, britishness is putting aside any petty quarrels with neighbours and standing together as one country Great Britain. Together we stand divided we fall,our cultures may be different,but if the truth be known our hearts are one.
73

Selgovae,

Scottish Borders 04/06/2008 10:15:56
I'm all for a Britain Day, but it would be symbolized by Merlin's red dragon and not a Union Jack. A day to remember a culture that existed before the bloody Scots and English invaded this island.

Let's go a step further and move the British capital and seat of government to Wales, the only truly British place on this island.
74

CLX,

Up North 04/06/2008 10:21:17
#98,
Your post proves what my Grandfather always said about the Welsh:

"If you meet a decent Welshman, shoot the b*gger before he turns bad"

Get a grip ye puddin...........
75

Ananurhing,

04/06/2008 10:22:13
#98 Selgovae

Doesn't the term Welsh, or Wales mean " foreigner "!

How British!
76

Ananurhing,

04/06/2008 10:31:44
#97 Kimba

Morning my sweet!

No such country I'm afraid. "Great Britain" is a geographical reference to the largest of the British isles. No one could ever break that up. I think you mean the UK of GB and NI.

" putting aside any petty quarrels " You mean like Thatcher, Churchill, or McRone dealt with petty quarrels! How British!
77

,

04/06/2008 10:38:51
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78

Stuntman Mike,

04/06/2008 10:54:30
Not my scene at all, but if it floats Brown’s boat and makes the Nats see red…
79

Geoff,

sa 04/06/2008 11:00:17
Liam Byrne is a good British name!!

104 MacMadman-you are right in saying culture and nationhood are defined by much more than language but I disagree with your assesment that peoples from various parts of the Isles of Britain and ireland are"very different" If the people of the Western Isles are "totally different" to those from Edinburgh then by your logic they should form a seperate state!Amongst the things you mention-language,history,culture,geography-for me these are the things that bind us as Brits, notwithstanding regional and national nuances. If the United States of America can have such national cohesion despite an incredible polyglot mix of language ,culture and ethnic origin then surely the little Islands of Britain can easily do the same. Your argument does not hold water and largely contradicts your position!
10 the Spook-in other words,70% of Scots consider themselves, to agreater or lesser degree British!! :)
80

Nikostratos,

04/06/2008 11:02:23
Its quite simple really..If there is a war on..your British all of ya no exceptions.
81

Geoff,

sa 04/06/2008 11:02:33
104 MacMadman-even Alex Salmond acknowledges the existence of a social union in the UK and says that he wishes to maintain this,so we cant be all that different from each other!
82

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 04/06/2008 11:10:31
#21 HM, clearly you are just looking for a fight. You certainly don't have any real points to make, do you?
83

Ananurhing,

04/06/2008 11:14:36
#103 Meths

How about " The thwack of willow on pert buttocks" or "Pass me another choirboy, this one's split."

Quintessentially British?
84

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 04/06/2008 11:15:15
How about a "Scottish National Cringe" day? Only unionists need attend!
85

Nikostratos,

04/06/2008 11:15:27
#109 Meths

Then we all sit for tea and muffins while playing a hand of whist..You can't get more civil than that?
86

Edward,

04/06/2008 11:16:27
I think the forum is drifting from the article
The fact remains that the UK Labour Government under Gordon Brown
is getting desperate. Liam Byrne is just yet another Brownite yes man
Brown wants to wrap himself up in the Union flag then fine, let him. He
Will soon find that he is a solitary figure.
The act of trying to wrap yourself up in a flag and a notion of Britishness smacks
Of what desperate despots tend to do when trying to boost their popularity
Consider Hitler in the 30’s, who invoked the one people, one nation creed and it was swastikas with everything. More recently and current, we have Mugabe wrapping himself up in the Zimbabwe flag and ensuring that if you don’t support Zanu PF, then your nobody and blaming everyone else for the countries woes
I’m not stating that Brown or the rest of the UK Government are depots, but when a government starts to evoke the point about being British and wrapping themselves in the Union Flag, it makes you wonder.
My personal point of view is that the Union with England is a dead duck, its over and the quicker the United Kingdom is dissolved the better

87

Nik,

Embra 04/06/2008 11:17:24
Just spotted this:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/7435016.stm
88

Nikostratos,

04/06/2008 11:18:00
#112

No that's reserved for public schoolboys such as those at Eton etc..
89

Nikostratos,

04/06/2008 11:21:01
#116 little NIK

Just spotted this:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2008/may/30/commodities.oil


"Analysts say oil is the new dotcom bubble"

Oil has reached "unsustainable" levels and is heading for a sharp correction, according to analysts at Lehman Brothers, who liken the spiralling price to the dotcom boom and bust of 2001.

In the report, "Oil dotcom," Lehman's Michael Waldron says the correction could come as early as September: "We think that the crude oil market should turn and we think it will happen by the end of the year."

The report predicts that Brent, which currently stands at $126.40 a barrel, could fall to $90 a barrel by the first quarter of 2009

90

Green booger,

04/06/2008 11:22:23
http://drjn.co.uk/cp.htm

Common Purpose (CP)

- a hidden menace in our government and schools



Common Purpose is the glue than enables fraud to be committed across government departments to reward pro European politicians. Corrupt deals are enabled that put property or cash into their pockets by embezzling public assets.



Although it has 80,000 trainees in 36 cities, 18,000 "graduate" members and enormous power, Common Purpose is largely unknown to the general public.



It recruits and trains "leaders" to be loyal to the directives of Common Purpose and the EU, instead of to their own departments, which they then undermine or subvert, the NHS being an example.



Common Purpose is identifying leaders in all levels of our government to assume power when our nation is replaced by the European Union. Unlike current leaders, CP leaders are taught to rule without democracy, and will bring the EU police state home to every one of us.



It has members in the NHS, BBC, the police, the legal profession, many of Britains 7,000 quangos, local councils, the Civil Service, government ministries, Parliament, and it controls many RDA's (Regional Development Agencies).



Cressida Dick is the Common Purpose senior police officer who authorised the "Shoot to kill" policy without reference to Parliament, the law or the British Constitution. Jean de Menezes was one of the innocents who died as a result. Her shoot to kill policy still stands today.



Common Purpose trained Janet Paraskeva, the Law Society's Chief Executive Officer. Surprising numbers of lawyers are CP members. It is no coincidence that justice is more expensive, more flawed and more corrupt. And no surprise the courts refused to uphold the law, when a challenge was made to the signing of the six EU treaties, which illegally abolish Britain's sovereignty.



Common Purpose is backed by John Prescott's "Office of the Deputy Prime Minister" (ODPM), and its notio
91

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 04/06/2008 11:25:01
#53 Royster.

You are probably the only person on planet earth who thinks that the Norwegian oil fund is a "poor idea".

I suspect that you aspire to be taken seriously!

Poor, deluded individual.
92

Cramondo,

Edinburgh 04/06/2008 11:26:02
"But the SNP pointed out that the summer Bank holiday falls on 4 August this year in Scotland – but 25 August in the rest of the UK."

If that is what the SNP pointed out that shows they have just as little understanding of the Scottish system of public holidays.

A Scottish Bank Holiday (do any banks still take them?) is just that, a holiday for banks. Scotland mostly has local holidays (except Christmas and New Year), not national holidays. Many Glaswegians don't know that because their local holidays (except autumn) are the same as the English ones.

Personally, I find the Scottish system anachronistic, given modern commuting patterns (families whose members work or go to school in different local authority areas end up being off on different days).

For that reason I would prefer us to have national holidays (whether the same as the rest of the UK or not is less important; although given that many UK-wide employers observe English holidays for their Scottish operations, a UK system might make sense).

Certainly, a national conversation about public holidays would be more interesting than one about independence. Might even make the SNP understand more about how things currently work in Scotland.
93

DaveK,

Edinburgh 04/06/2008 11:26:35
Well so long as the nats are poised on the edge of their seats, waiting to shoot down any inkling of approval or recognition for the UK on here, and not outside on the streets corrupting the youth of this country and trying to indoctrinate them with their brave heart mentality, I'm happy.
94

Saruman,

04/06/2008 11:27:47
#10 Spook: your poll about whether people feel more Scottish than British etc etc is about as illuminating as a low powered energy efficient lightbulb (yes, I had to replace the supposedly 60 watt equivalent bulb in my bedside lamp with a more powerful version recently because I couldn’t read by it!).

In the real world, “Scottish” and “British” comes to the same thing anyway: so what if 35% feel more Scottish than British; it doesn’t mean that the Nats’ brand of inward looking separatism has finally struck a popular chord with the great unwashed out there!
95

Tellen1,

04/06/2008 11:27:54
#43

"I propose a "No Longer British" Day, aka Independence Day, around St. Andrew's Day 2010!"

Scotland isn't going to be independent by 2010 so you can't have an independence day then. Even if there is a referendum that year and even if independence won, it would still take several years to break up the union so independence isn't going to happen till at least 2012 I would say.
96

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 04/06/2008 11:28:47
#63 kimba

I notice that your punctuation and grammar remains as poor as ever.
97

Ananurhing,

04/06/2008 11:31:08
#117 Niko

You can't get more quintessential than that, can you?
Just look at the future PM and his cabinet. Or the Mayor of London.

Toodle pip old fruit! Oft out into the midday sun! Eh what!
Guess that makes me a mad dog! Arf arf!
98

kimba,

04/06/2008 11:38:57
126.What's the matter to near the truth,or are you just a wind-up merchant!
99

kimba,

04/06/2008 11:41:14
125. And I propose a "NO NATS DAY" when harmony and good will will return to these threads!
100

kimba,

04/06/2008 11:43:50
123. Good point,one can only hope the youth of Scotland tell them to go forth and multiply!
101

kimba,

04/06/2008 11:47:09
Meths. visited my grans friend in Dundee last year,guess what,we had afternoon tea,not just a English thing!
102

kimba,

04/06/2008 12:01:10
92. "GERMAN STOCK" SO AM I, my maternal grandmother was german,my paternal grandmother is scottish,but I am as English as roast beef!
103

Ananurhing,

04/06/2008 12:08:24
#133 Kimba

So this is where the identity confusion comes from!

As one of your Grannies would say,
" For you, ze union ist over. "

Or the other Grannie, " Ye'r efternoon tea's oot."
104

kimba,

04/06/2008 12:12:08
132. Funny you should mention that,we had Dundee cake,sones and cream cakes.
105

Ananurhing,

04/06/2008 12:12:49
Or possibly if she was as refined as you,

"Ye'll have haed yer aefternoon tea!"
106

kimba,

04/06/2008 12:16:56
134. LOL, no confusion,I,m as British as the union flag.
107

Ananurhing,

04/06/2008 12:17:03
#138 Brilliant!
108

Ananurhing,

04/06/2008 12:17:46
139 Like I said,......a confusion.
109

Ananurhing,

04/06/2008 12:20:27
139 I was going to say, Hey, I'm a mongrel as well,....
But I figured you would take it the wrong way.
110

kimba,

04/06/2008 12:20:31
138,can't stand the stuff,but love vienna schnitzel
111

kimba,

04/06/2008 12:22:56
141. If you are going to be a plank,as English as yorshire pud!
112

kimba,

04/06/2008 12:24:41
142. No you're ok,what makes up your heritage.
113

 Ayrshire Scot™,

04/06/2008 12:24:49
133. Kimba "I am as English as roast beef"...

and just as beefy...
114

CowalDude,

Alba 04/06/2008 12:25:49
Britain is a ludicrous embarrassment amply exemplified by the T5 fiasco,its "celebrity" monarchy, its overcrowding and third rate infrastructure and its poodle relationship to the Pentagon. Most decent Scots and , increasingly English too, want rid of this anachronistic overhead which is the subject of ridicule the world over.The Incredible Sulk and his trolls are simply trying to breath life into a rotting corpse of a wasteful and ridiculous empire-state for their own preservation...yes we should have a British day...one only and it should be a Wake!!
115

 Ayrshire Scot™,

04/06/2008 12:26:25
143. This is evident from your picture..
116

,

04/06/2008 12:27:27
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Reason:
117

kimba,

04/06/2008 12:27:46
145. Thanks, but have been cooking it since I was 13,if you can't afford veal pork will do.
118

,

04/06/2008 12:31:00
Comment Removed By Administrator
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119

kimba,

04/06/2008 12:31:29
Ayrshire snot. seems you have to bully at every opportunity! you sad g-t!
120

,

04/06/2008 12:33:55
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121

,

04/06/2008 12:36:22
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122

Ananurhing,

04/06/2008 12:39:48
# 146 Kimba

Scots, Scandinavian, Gael and French.
Resulting in a Cahootsman!
123

,

04/06/2008 12:44:37
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Reason:
124

Arfur,

04/06/2008 12:46:04
#133 kimba - your as thick as roast beef also.

A BBC investigation as anounced there is as much oil in the North sea as has been extracted so far.

Another Unionist lie shot down in flames.

#157 Ayrshire Scot - Mount Kimba - brilliant.
125

Arfur,

04/06/2008 12:46:12
#133 kimba - your as thick as roast beef also.

A BBC investigation as anounced there is as much oil in the North sea as has been extracted so far.

Another Unionist lie shot down in flames.

#157 Ayrshire Scot - Mount Kimba - brilliant.
126

,

04/06/2008 12:47:46
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
127

brownlie,

04/06/2008 12:52:16
133 Kimba

Hi, Kimba,

I hope as a unionist that your roast beef was not Aberdeen-Angus?
128

,

04/06/2008 12:55:06
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129

,

04/06/2008 13:02:33
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130

G,

dundy 04/06/2008 13:04:38
This was embarassing...he obviously hadn't given the fact that this is not a Scottish holiday a moment's thought and when questioned he seemed perplexed how anyone could find this important......
131

Davie08,

Edinburgh 04/06/2008 13:09:01
Kimba get over to the telegraph quick they have an article on what constitutes the average Brit and judging by the majority of the comments I think they're talking about you.
132

john z,

edinburgh 04/06/2008 13:10:09
Did you know Scotland produces more oil than Kuwait?

check this out; http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/7435016.stm

And make sure to watch the programme late on BBC1 tonight.
133

Truely English,

04/06/2008 13:13:27
Britishness and English goes hand in hand but so does the Scots language/dialect as it is the same language as English.
The Scots do not need to try and be English in order to get on as they are already there.
134

Davie08,

Edinburgh 04/06/2008 13:16:42
169
truly (note spelling) English
What are you talking about???
135

 Ayrshire Scot™,

04/06/2008 13:19:58
170. Truely is a troll who posts p­ish­ to try to stir the thread. Best ignored.
136

 Ayrshire Scot™,

04/06/2008 13:23:23
Meths - you must look about 17:

http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/scitech/Red-wine-may--39curb.4147455.jp
137

brownlie,

04/06/2008 13:25:34
169 Truely

I went hand in hand with an Englishman once but, sadly, nothing came of it!
138

brownlie,

04/06/2008 13:42:05

Have any-one seen the news headline "Highland fling with phone-box not over". So that's why he had not been on here lately!
139

brownlie,

04/06/2008 13:42:41
175]

Should be "Has any-one..."
140

kimba,

04/06/2008 13:50:03
163. It was British, and as aberdeen angus is British it could of been!
141

 Ayrshire Scot™,

04/06/2008 13:51:43
177. How many Aberdeen Angus did you eat?
142

,

04/06/2008 13:54:21
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Reason:
143

Huntly loon,

Aberdeenshire 04/06/2008 13:54:23
#159 The Scottish Government website lists 4th August as a Bank Holiday in Scotland.
#169 Scots is not the same language as English. They both derive from the common language that was spoken in northern Europe about 500 AD Scots derives from Northumbrian and developed differently from Modern English which is from West Saxon. Other sister languages developed into Friesian, Dutch, Flemish and Plattdeutsch. The fact that to a great extent they have assimilated in certain respects does not change their history. Scots also imported French, Dutch and Scandinavian loan words and grammatical constructions different from modern English. 'Truly English' you are either a 'windup merchant' or an ignoramus. Perhaps you are both.
144

 Ayrshire Scot™,

04/06/2008 13:58:43
181. Now now Kimba, just because you can't fit any of your wobbley chins through the oven door, no need to get nasty.

Liked your new pic by the way:
http://www.spilogsjov.dk/missb/fat-woman.jpg
145

 Ayrshire Scot™,

04/06/2008 13:59:29
Poor Magic Hoops, for those who wondered what happened to him when he met with Mount Kimba:....

http://www.humoronline.com/weird-news-pictures/fat-woman-sex.jpg
146

Geoff,

04/06/2008 14:01:08
109 Methalions-meths what if its a civil war! Reminds me of Sir Edward carsons famous quote,words to the effect" We will remain British even if we have to fight the British to do so!" St Aidan is fine-(we have an Uncle Aidan) What about St Paddy-beloved of the irish but British born?
147

kimba,

04/06/2008 14:04:32
167.Did you read this on the thread- All thoughts of Britain or Britons is over - thanks to the disgraceful gerrymandering of the Scottish Socialist government led now by Bottler Brown but most of the blame goes to Bliar and his gang of far left English hating "advisers".
148

kimba,

04/06/2008 14:08:26
185. JUST SO YOU GUYS KNOW, i'm 5ft 7in and size 16,not the humungus person ayryscot makes out.as for the chicken livered hoops we never met he was to scared!
149

,

04/06/2008 14:10:06
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150

 Ayrshire Scot™,

04/06/2008 14:11:01
189. Hoos poos, and yes the Master should stop posting as the Mount Kimba.
151

Selgovae,

Scottish Borders 04/06/2008 14:14:10
#100 Ananurhing

"Doesn't the term Welsh, or Wales mean " foreigner "!"

You're right. Kind of ironic really. The British -- strangers in their own land. Still, it was good enough for William Wallace, whose surname means the same.

I wasn't entirely joking in my post above. We learn little of our pre-Scottish heritage. It would be nice to commemorate it occasionally. For example, I find it interesting that the only record of a bunch of British knights on horseback who rode off from Edinburgh to do battle with the Angles at Catterick is in a Welsh poem. But I find it sad that I was never taught this at school in Edinburgh,
152

Gere,

Scotland 04/06/2008 14:14:53
Freedom for Scotland!

Why must we celebrate our oppression by the English and insult ourselves by embracing Britishness????????
153

kimba,

04/06/2008 14:21:34
Tell you what guys, why don't all you nats go and take a long walk of a short pier,the fact remains there will be more celebrating it than not, you are all bigoted no bodies who need a "cause" to make your lives worth living,well here's the rub.the UNITED KINGDOM will still be here 20 years from now!
154

kimba,

04/06/2008 14:25:00
196.And you have been reported for your bigoted outburst.
155

Geoff,

sa 04/06/2008 14:29:04
200 for the Union!
156

brownlie,

04/06/2008 14:36:18
201 AM2

Afternoon, squire, would you please stop being so reasonable - it is causing a lot of disquiet in the unionist camp (no offence intended).
157

Geoff,

sa 04/06/2008 14:39:04
202 AM2-ta my friend-its nice to trump Meths for a change. He has an uncanny knack of appearing from nowhere to claim these much prized multi hundreds!
203 Spook- they used to say"Britischer Pigdogs" to which we would have replied"Take that Fritz!" But that would have bin afore your time!
158

Saruman,

04/06/2008 14:55:40
#193 Traquir: we’re all well aware that the BBC has found that new oil fields are becoming viable with the hike in prices and that it’s estimated that there could be as much remaining as has already been drilled. You Nats may think that this is a huge boost to the separation agenda, but I have a wake up call for you: the rest of us say “so what!” However much there is, it’s still a finite resource and, even if we were nationalistic enough to refuse to refuse to share the proceeds with the rest of the country, it’s still a finite resource, whatever way you look at it.
159

Scottish not British,

04/06/2008 15:01:35
British day would just be a waste of time, money and energy. Surely the money that would be wasted on this farce would be better spent on equipment to keep the armed services personnel safe or cleaning up the hospitals or something important? Yet another cheap PR stunt with a high price tag from the UK government who yet again ignore the real issues.
160

W U Merchant,

04/06/2008 15:17:09
The trouble with clowns like Byrne is that they have no idea how the Scots think or behave. Quite apart from the date blunder and his misunderstanding of the difference between public holidays and bank holidays, who in their right mind would promote the idea of a "street party" in Scotland? A recipe for drink fuelled mayhem.
161

Calum Crubag,

Alba gu brath, is nas fhaide na sin! 04/06/2008 15:25:29
We want our oil money! Why should it be used to prop up corrupt London governments?

No more lies from the unionists.
162

Saruman,

04/06/2008 15:28:35
#212 Traquir: sorry, but no one’s taken in by the Nats’ insistence that the oil revenues can be used to finance some kind future trust scheme. That’s just not the way that government works in this country, and you know it! Even assuming that such a trust proves a viable long term vehicle to finance Scotland’s future, governments would always be coming under pressure to use the money for other pressing causes rather than “putting it in the bank”.

If a party wants to gather votes, its first target will be the funds that a previous administration had earmarked as a “nest egg”, take it from me! Maybe it’s sad, but that’s harsh political reality in this country for you. Scotland's no Norway (for better or worse!)
163

ThomasP,

Scotland, Aberdeen 04/06/2008 15:35:05
Saruman.

If a Fund was created it could be put into a Bank Account and to be used for when a certain time arose and not for Politcal Parties to look good.

It is like your parents set up your own fund that you cant use till your 21.
164

Scottish not British,

04/06/2008 15:44:58
Saving up for the future of the country makes absolute sense. Society and peoples expectations of politicians will change once there is independence and hopefully, Scotland will be even more productive that it is now and the money will stay in Scotland the benefit the Scottish people, rather than fund the extravagant expenses of the UK politicians and funding London based financial blackholes such as the Dome, Olympics etc, which only 'benefits' London and nearby areas.
165

Saruman,

04/06/2008 16:13:44
#219 Scottish not British: this reminds me of National Insurance Contributions. They were set up ostensibly to be used solely to fund old age pensions, but in reality the funds are pooled along with general taxation. The reason for this is that it’s the only practical way to run a government.

You Nats really are living in Lalaland if you think a good proportion of the oil revenues could, or indeed should, be saved for the future. I know this is asking too much of you, but “get real!”
166

AberdeenAngus,

Aberdeen 04/06/2008 16:15:03
178
"Ayrshire Scot™,
04/06/2008 13:51:43
177. How many Aberdeen Angus did you eat?"


I object to this accusation.
167

ThomasP,

Scotland, Aberdeen 04/06/2008 16:23:15
Saruman.

The Scots Nats are far more reasonable then their Unionist counter-parts.

It is not hard to ensure part of the Oil Wealth goes into a bank account which cannot be touched by Governments unless their was a valid reason.
168

The Scotchman,

04/06/2008 16:28:23
193. Yes, there's no doubt McCrone Report II, III, IV, V, 2000 Edition, and so on, hidden away. There must be a trial held in Scotland, as per Saddam and his mob! Round them up Salmond.
169

jacquesmac,

Lectoure 04/06/2008 16:30:39
Kimba

I think you should change your moniker to
Legsa Kimba because you and your Unionista lot are about to be well stuffed.
170

kimba,

04/06/2008 16:33:33
224. The only one getting "stuffed" here is salmond when cameron in running the show!
171

Scottish not British,

04/06/2008 16:35:02
#220 Saruman
Incompetent government and indiscriminate squandering have led to the current financial mess, much of it was brought about due to the unaccountability of the UK government. The voting system is such that even incredibly unpopular parties can remain in power long after they should have gone, the current government being a perfect example of this. Whilst in Scotland no single party has a strangle hold on power. The problem there arises when petulant unionists refuse to cooperate with the Scottish government to do what is best for Scotland because it is what their lords and masters in Westminster require.
You and your fellow unionists might, sneer at nationalists as being unrealistic but at least we WANT to make it work and will try to make a difference, not just blindly accept what we are told. It is time for a change and time for Scotland to be able to run her own affairs.
172

kimba,

04/06/2008 16:37:13
Do what you like, independence is a non starter,but until you wake up and smell the coffee you are all deluding yourselves!
173

Scottish not British,

04/06/2008 16:42:34
Kimba
A man with no policies (Cameron) is not a Leader, he's an opportunist and we know how that ends after seeing a decade of Tony Blair. Salmond is more than capable of dealing with people like that.
We were independent much longer than were have tolerated this insufferable 'union'. And we were better off. Don't come crying to us when Cameron ruins you. You might have no faith in Scottish people and their ability to rule, but thank God that that will never be a decision for you to make.
174

brownlie,

04/06/2008 16:42:47
225 Kimba & Truely English

Did you know that the name "Cameron" comes from Gaelic and means "Crooked nose". I bet that goes down well at your cheese and wine party.
175

Alan B,

04/06/2008 16:43:44
#220 Saruman

"You Nats really are living in Lalaland if you think a good proportion of the oil revenues could, or indeed should, be saved for the future."

Why? The norwegians did it. It makes sense if u come into so much wealth that u invest if for the future and spend the interest. Off course u could use part of it for one of capital projects. ie a high speed rail line or something.

With the norwegian fund something like 300billion. if u earn only 5% interest on that per yr that would be 15 billion to spend per yr. Scotland total budget is only double that.

U could effectively half taxation and still have the same spending levels.

But what the hell we gave it away in a good cause. england needed it more than we did.

176

Saruman,

04/06/2008 16:44:37
#222 ThomasP writes: “It is not hard to ensure part of the Oil Wealth goes into a bank account which cannot be touched by Governments unless their was a valid reason.”

May I draw an analogy with the lottery funds, which were originally specifically designated by the Major Government as being earmarked for carefully defined “good causes” but were later diverted to a “new opportunities” fund by Labour and used to fund many projects which it could be argued should be more properly funded by central government, such as healthcare.

You may be so starry eyed that you can’t imagine the Nats acting like that in a separatist Scotland, but they’d be only one party among many and by no means guaranteed power, assuming that the party remained in its present form post independence.


You may be so starry eyed that you can’t imagine the Nats acting like that in a separatist Scotland, but they’d be only one party among many and by no means guaranteed power, assuming that the party remained in its present form post independence.
177

kimba,

04/06/2008 16:45:21
228.Salmond is a wanna be, he reminds me of mugabe all talk but no substance.
178

Alan B,

04/06/2008 16:45:33
#kimba

Cameron is a light weight. He has no appeal in scotland.
179

Saruman,

04/06/2008 16:45:43
Please ignore repition of last paragraph of my post: I composed it in word and then pasted too much in!
180

ThomasP,

Scotland, Aberdeen 04/06/2008 16:48:08
Saruman.

If Norway can manage then so can Scotland.
181

kimba,

04/06/2008 16:50:18
228. We are part of the union, if and when it is dissolved it will be by mutual consent, and not by one partners say so!
182

Alan B,

04/06/2008 16:51:43
#Saruman

Whether scotland would maintain an oil fund would really be up to the parties that people vote for.

If people vote for spending it now we would spend it now. If people are convinced by putting some aside and building a fund for the long term and vote for parties accordingly then that would happen.

Ur analogy with the lottery fund is a good example but it is also fundamentally different. It is much easier to change spending priorities than raiding a fund which has been set aside where previous governments are only spending the interest accrued.

Yes parties could try but it would depend on public opinion whether they could succeed.

Unfortunately we have not even had the benefit of the cash being spent on scotland anyway even to enjoy the short term gain. We just suffered major economic problems in the 80s and continuous low economic growth while we gave most of the oil wealth away.
183

kimba,

04/06/2008 16:52:28
233. LOL, he doesn't need "appeal" in scotland,England will make him pm!
184

Alan B,

04/06/2008 16:54:11
#236 Kimba

are u daft.

if england or scotland want to leave the union they will. neither country is undemocractic that they could or would try to stop the other. the parties may play silly games but that is as far as it would go.
185

Alan B,

04/06/2008 16:54:53
#238 Kimba

I do not doubt it.

186

Arfur,

04/06/2008 16:56:55
#197 kimba - "the fact remains there will be more celebrating it than not".....FACT???

Have you ever been in a pub when England are playing hmm well ANYONE?

#216 Saruman - "sorry, but no one’s taken in by the Nats’ insistence that the oil revenues can be used to finance some kind future trust scheme. That’s just not the way that government works in this country"

I am sorry guys but I am going to agree with Saruman here - that is not the way that government works in this country. BUT when independence comes and Scotland has control of the oil things will change. Thanks Saruman for reiterating what we already know, Labour are a bunch of idiots in control of our oil and squandering it on wars/Olympics instead of a trust.
187

kimba,

04/06/2008 16:59:09
239. There's nothing "daft" about it,we are partners,and when a partnership is dissolved it takes consent from both partners!
188

kimba,

04/06/2008 17:00:13
239. But it will never come to that,as the good people of scotland have more sense.
189

Alan B,

04/06/2008 17:01:25
#kimba

u must the only one that does not think it is daft.

in any partnership if one side is unhappy they can have it dissolved whether business or even marriage.

are u honestly saying if england wanted independence and scotland did not england would be bound to remain in an unwanted partnership.

That is simply not how democracy works.
190

Alan B,

04/06/2008 17:03:23
#243 Kimba

May or may not come to that. But that is not the point u raised.

With cameron not having any popular appeal in scotland and the tories not being able or wanted to reform enough, it probably will be the death nail in the union.
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kimba,

04/06/2008 17:03:33
241. Indeed I have,not only did this guy give me his seat,but they wished me luck on a English win,and this was in Glasgow!
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ThomasP,

Scotland, Aberdeen 04/06/2008 17:04:21
Kimba.

Once Scotland declares Independence England/Wales and Norther Ireland would have no mandate to Govern the Scottish people.

The reason that the Unionist Parties are against a referendum on Scottish Independence is because once they loose that is it. Game Over for them.
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04/06/2008 17:05:21
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Saruman,

04/06/2008 17:07:20
#241 Arfur: there would surely be some equivalent of Labour in a separatist Scotland and you can’t tell me that they wouldn’t behave pretty much as their pre independence incarnation. Plus ca change…
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kimba,

04/06/2008 17:07:54
244. Ofcourse not,but what you fail to realise is it would take over 2000 bills to be past by the uk government,and that's just for starters!
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Miss H,

04/06/2008 17:07:58
What a farce. You don’t know whether to laugh or cry. Well actually I do – I am laughing all the way.

But if we can suspend reality for a moment and if a nationalist can be permitted to offer political advice to unionists. This whole tack of trying to create a sense of British-ness is doomed to failure as the more British-ness is examined the more apparent it becomes that no such thing exists.

But the British state has functioned since 1707 without a unifying sense of British-ness so that doesn’t necessarily matter.

The drive towards independence in Scotland is not due to a failure of ‘Britishness’. It is due to changes in Scotland, Europe and the wider world which makes independence more attractive. Paradoxically as the world has become more interdependent, independence and self-government in its widest sense has become more important.

By trying to create a new British ‘identity’ that binds us together all the unionists are doing is driving us further apart. I have said it before but with enemies like this the SNP hardly needs friends!
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Scottish not British,

04/06/2008 17:10:31
Kimba
Congratulations you have confirmed that you are in fact as many have suspected, opposed to democracy. The people of Scotland did not want to be part of a union and most now do not want to be part of the union. It can't be mutual consent with England dictating to us yet again.
What you mean he wants what you don't ergo he is to be compared to the likes of Mugabe? Cameron reminds me of Longshanks he has the same ambition (the subjugation of Scotland and like Longshanks he has no right to rule Scotland since it is probable that not even the unionists will vote for him and like his Tory predecessors will be imposed on us by England).
The SNP has no ambition to rule your country so why are so many in yours obsessed with ruling Scotland?
Cameron meaning 'crooked nose'? I'd say just plain crooked much like many of his most ardent supporters. If you want Tories in Scotland so much move here and live under those conditions where you're merely considered a guinea pig for unpopular policies to be tested on.

You personally are a hypocrite banging on about mutual consent then stating that England will force a government we don't want on us. Cameron can never hope to compete on the same level as Salmond, whose legacy will be favourably remembered by all those who care about Scotland. Camerons will be the end of the union and if he tries to prevent us going when we want, he'll be a genuine dictator.
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kimba,

04/06/2008 17:11:34
247. yep,could never understand gordy not going for that,his chances of losing were small,and it would of shut the nats up for another 20 years!
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04/06/2008 17:16:54
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kimba,

04/06/2008 17:17:32
253.That was the biggest load of bigoted clap-trap ever written on these threads,hear is what cameron actually sad; Let me make it one hundred percent clear: I am passionate about the Union. I don't want to be the Prime Minister of England. I want to be Prime Minister of the United Kingdom - all of it, including Scotland.
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kimba,

04/06/2008 17:20:13
Cameron went on to say- "I absolutely believe we are stronger together, and weaker apart, and I will do anything and everything to keep our two countries as one. And that means addressing one-by-one the deeper questions that are fuelling separatism.
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Richard,

west lothian 04/06/2008 17:24:30
"Kerr is spared censure over gift".



"LABOUR'S Andy Kerr will not be punished by Holyrood for breaching rules on the registration of gifts, MSPs agreed yesterday.
The former health minister received hospitality to see Manchester United take on Chelsea in the Community Shield football match in London last year".

Why are we not allowed to comment on this, taking the Heralds lead?
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kimba,

04/06/2008 17:27:31
259.Thank you meths,my fella says the same!
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Edward,

04/06/2008 17:30:42
The way things are going, Scot’s are now realising that they have been lied to for the last 50 years! I watched a clip from the 70’s, where Tony Benn in an interview stated that the ‘UK’ would be come the 10 largest oil producer in the world. Then mysteriously this was hushed up as Labour realised that all the oil was coming from Scotland!. Then the McCrone report confirmed their worst nightmare that if Scot’s realised that they were an oil rich nation the argument for independence would be strengthened. So Callaghan promptly slapped a 30 year top secret order on the report and buried it. If that wasn’t enough Callaghan was instrumental in ‘fixing’ the first ever referendum on devolution, by insisting on the 40% rule.
Since the 70’s, consecutive UK Governments have gone out their way to back brief the media in order to convince Scot’s that the Oil , firstly wouldn’t last long, in addition to the spurious briefings that there want enough income from the Oil
To underline this understating of a resource, the UK Government somehow declined to join OPEC, stating that there wasn’t enough oil to justify a membership. Which is strange as Oil production from Scotland has exceeded some members of OPEC, including Qatar and Indonesia . According to a programme going out tonight, apparently exceeds Kuwait.
I prefer being Scottish, Independent and in control of our own resources, than being British and lied to and having our resources used by another country for the benefit of that other country
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ThomasP,

Scotland, Aberdeen 04/06/2008 17:31:53
Kimba.

One question.

How can Cameron be the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom if the Tories do not have more then 50% of the Scottish MP's?

You said it yourself that England will return the Tories to power and that will be true.

However, the SNP are expected to take back 33 Scottish MP's back to Westminister.

The Tories can not match that.
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04/06/2008 17:33:46
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New Town Resident,

04/06/2008 17:36:59
"Bank holidays" were introduced in 1871 and were on the same days in both England and Scotland. Everything was then messed about by the 1971 changes. Scotland still keeps the 1871 date for the August holiday, but for some reason they moved it in England in 1971. But then the Health government did a lot of silly things, although the 1971 act did give Scotland more holidays than England as well as messing up the dates

Byrne seems a particularly incompetent minister. How can he can be considered worthy of promotion after the mess he made of asylum and immigration?



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04/06/2008 17:37:24
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04/06/2008 17:38:07
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Saruman,

04/06/2008 17:41:05
#251 Miss H: I’d agree that it is foolhardy to try to create a “British identity” by artificial means. The fact that Nats like you can’t understand is that the “Scottish identity” is already synonymous with the British Identity. If there is a “British Identity” then it is to be found in the cultures or the Scottish, Northern Irish, Welsh and English. There is no need to force some all encompassing whole down people’s throats.

As to the so called “drive towards independence”: that would be a fairly static 23% of the population that you’re referring to?
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04/06/2008 17:42:19
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04/06/2008 17:42:33
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Raymond Thomas Brooke,

leven England 04/06/2008 17:42:41
Posts have mentioned England and dominance in Britain. Iam English ,proud of it, I am definitely not British and would not celebrate a British Day even if Gordon offered me a monetary bribe "which in desperation he may well do". Yes we sing God save the Queen and equally proud to do so I would never ever Boo any one elses National Anthem.
Just aquestion for any one with knowledge of geographical boundaries.If the land boundary between England and Scotland followed the same dirction out to sea how would this affect the the rightds to the North Sea oilfields?
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Scottish not British,

04/06/2008 17:42:53
#256
Read your own posts before saying anyone else's is bad. Your posts are of a level I expect from an 8 year old and your need to resort to insults and profanities, say a lot about you, none of it very flattering.
Cameron has already said he'd try to lower the funding to Scotland, which is already short changed. He should accept that Scotland doesn't want him to rule and he has done nothing to persuade us to do otherwise. Why stop the inevitable? We will be independent, no two ways about it. And the only thing Cameron will do is ensure that more people want independence. Since you apparently did not grow up or live in Tory era Scotland, your lack of insight is perhaps understandable. I support independence for Scotland because it is my country and I love it and if I had to die for it I would do so with a smile on my face. The union is like having a nice pedigree dog, having it taken away and being offered a dead mutt in its place. The union has nothing to offer me or my generation as it offered nothing to my parents generation, even my grandparents became nationalist after 50 odd years of unionism. Face it, the union is a dead dog.
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New Town Resident,

04/06/2008 17:47:18
#268 The interesting point is that Scotland is not profoundly different to England in this, as in many other matters, because of deep historical and cultural differences. Rather it is simply like how England used to be, but the power of the old Scottish office and now Holyrood has had the effect of stopping changes in England being applied to Scotland - sometimes this is a good thing (August 4 is a more sensible date for a holiday because of the weather), but not always of course.
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04/06/2008 17:49:22
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04/06/2008 17:49:23
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04/06/2008 17:53:38
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lilywhite,

Borders 04/06/2008 17:59:16
How about a special holiday ,for all the people who end up working weekends and bank holidays.All the people who have every weekend and bank holiday off could do their work for them.
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Highland Mighty,

04/06/2008 18:06:49
278. Have asked for proof of this a thousand times and, strangely, not one nat has manged to provide an answer.

Maybe you can.

What is the balance of payments between Scotland and the rest of the UK over the past 50 years?

Nats constantly claim that 'Scotland has been subsidising the UK' all this time but NOT ONE can provide any proof of this.

Surely they aren't lying?!
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Highland Mighty,

04/06/2008 18:09:12
Regarding this 'oil fund'; how much does Norway make each year on the interest of it's long-saved $350bn fund (bearing in mind that at least half of the interest needs to be re-invested to keep up with inflation)?
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ThomasP,

Scotland, Aberdeen 04/06/2008 18:09:20
Highland Mighty.

I have no evidence which goes back 50 years.

But with the Independent Report relaed that showed Scotland would have a surplus of between 4 to 6 billion per year you have to ask.

Where is this money going to?

It is not going back into Scotland but the surplus is going back into the Treasury.
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ThomasP,

Aberdeen, Scotland 04/06/2008 18:10:35
Highland Mighty.

By the end of 2010 the Norwegian Fund is suppose to reach 230-250 Billion I saw somewhere.
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Ealasaid N,

04/06/2008 18:10:52
You do not have to live in England five minutes before you realise that the 'English' (who usually call themselves British as if the two things are the same) are already bemoaning their loss of identity. I was at a recent lecture where a Professor of Psychology pointed out that many English people are terrified of Scottish independence because they perceive this as the final nail in their coffin in terms of their own identity.
In Scotland, it is our sense of identity and determination to hang on to it at all costs that makes us formidable and imagining that the fact England will say no to independence is hardly likely to stop us.

Kimba, just because your granny was Scottish does not give you a say in running our country anymore than the fact my father was English gives me a right to make comments on matters affecting England.
I know you are desperate to keep Scotland part of the Union, it underpins your sense of identity, but you really need to wake up and smell the coffee because I honestly believe there is a chance that Scotland will vote to become independent before 2014.
Cameron may well want to be Prime Minister of all Britain including Scotland, but what you want and what you get are often two different things.
Do remember that Scotland was an independent sovereign state long before Engand was formed. In addition, we have the right to make our own laws - something denied to the Welsh. In English law the only absolute is that a parliament cannot be bound by the decisions of a previous parliament, that means that no Act is sacred and all Acts can be repealed including the Act of Union.
We have the human right of self determination and many small nations like Norway survive very well.
Unlike England, we have never been conquered. We Scots survived many centuries before England was formed, we will survive again after independence.
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Highland Mighty,

04/06/2008 18:12:38
283. And once someone has found the answer to the oil fund interest question:

How does that compare to the £8-11bn Holyrood gets on top of tax paid to the Treasury (that 'subsidy')?
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Highland Mighty,

04/06/2008 18:18:38
290. Disgraceful.
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04/06/2008 18:25:06
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 Ayrshire Scot™,

04/06/2008 18:25:52
287. The latest study, by an independent accountancy firm last month, published in the Herlad, concluded a Scottish surplus of £4-5 billion. Interesting that you make up a 8-11bn deficit?

Your point on interest/ inflation with regard the Norwegian oil fund was so farical as be to pointless. Are you saying, as some of the interest is re-invested, it would be better not to have a £350bn oil fund? I myself recently declined a £40million lottery win as I was worried I would have to re-invest some interest payments to keep it at its current value.

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 Ayrshire Scot™,

04/06/2008 18:30:44
297. Too right. When all is said and done the fact that interest may have to be re-invested, tax paid and the whole thing managed means that a £40 million lottery win is just too much hassle. Exactly as Highland Mighty has pointed out for a £350 bn oil fund- just not worth having
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All Politicians are the same,

Scotland 04/06/2008 18:34:30
Both sides are very amusing with their figures but it is not about money. if it was about money then every area of the Uk would be working out if they would be better off alone. Lets hear it for the reformation of Wessesx independent until the 12th century etc. Its about whether or not Scottish people want to be Indepndent of the Uk and have self determination.
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Saruman,

04/06/2008 18:44:57
#302 Ayrshire: a £40 million lottery win would last you out (assuming that you are a mortal being). However, a £350bn oil fund has to last Scotland not just for your lifetime but for those of many many generations to come. Your point, caller?
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ThomasP,

Scotland, Aberdeen 04/06/2008 18:47:25
Saruman.

According to the Independent Report which shown an Independent Scotland with all the costs taken into account including tax cuts to have up to 6 billion left over once we take ALL our Oil Reserves.

If Scotland had £350 Billion then that money would sit there for decades to come.
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David MacVicar,

web 04/06/2008 18:49:54
This is a political broadcast in order to increase the morale of Unionist apologists...err...patriots everywhere.

Support for independence is static and cannot be more than 25%.

Scotland won't be allowed a referendum anyway, so continue to feel safe.

GERS is accurate.

The North British Labour message of 'walking TALLER' is gaining ground across Scotland, thanks largely to the competence of W. Alexander and the support and confidence the PM has for her.

If, somehow, Scotland gets independence through interference of the nasty CoE , Shetlands will declare itself a State and grab all the oil for themselves. What a wheeze!

The legality of anything the SNP proposes even in non reserved areas will be challenged - successfully.

Scotland would become a basket case with or without oil, the great Tony said so.

Most sites identified as long term storage for Britain's Nuclear waste are on Scottish territory. Brit Scots are encouraged at this long term employment prospect and addition to a diverse economy after the oil runs out.

Thanks be to the Union. Amen.



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 Ayrshire Scot™,

04/06/2008 18:50:10
304. My point is that most oil producing countries, and several regions of nation-states, have oil funds for the future. Scotland is almost unique in not having one. Scotland is the only country in history to discover oil and become poorer.

My point is that had Scotland had direct control over our oil revenues it would be substantially richer and more successful than it is today. And that we have a choice of whether to waste the second half of our oil revenues in the same way.
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All Politicians are the same,

Scotland 04/06/2008 18:52:29
#305
Where does the instant £350 billion come from it would take 60 years to build up if you had a £6 billion annual excess. As Independence cannot be properly costed before the SNP have policies on, Defence, Currency, Embassies, foreign relations, Energy, transport etc we are wasting our time. I say again, it is not about money it is about wanting to be Independent.
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04/06/2008 18:59:32
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04/06/2008 19:06:37
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Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 04/06/2008 19:06:45
Song parody moment re Britischer Day. Best celebrated by the pisched Brits in Spain.

To the tune of Yip I dee I da (see what I mean?)and with a knees-up stupid Cockney dance routine;-

OHHHHHHHH,

UK, UK, UK ya, UK ya, UK yah
UK, UK, UK ya, UK, UK yah.

UK, UK, UK ya, UK ya, UK yah
UK, UK, UK ya, UK, UK yah.

brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

ITISH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (stupid audience)

Repeat ad nauseam until sliding under table blitzed.



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04/06/2008 19:20:31
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kimba,

04/06/2008 19:30:03
meths,262. LOL,what he actually says is unrepeatable on a family thread,but "cuddly" comes into it!
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04/06/2008 19:31:46
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Jeanette Mc,

04/06/2008 19:43:10
318. What a disgraceful comment
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David MacVicar,

web 04/06/2008 19:43:33
McMadman,Edinburgh.

These are desperate times for the Unionists, I thought they needed a boost. Feeding them some of their own dog food should do the trick.

Like 271 Saruman saying independence support is a fairly static 23%. The statistics of denial that the unionists clutch onto should be welcomed, nurtured and encouraged. Saruman must be right, in fact support is probably falling. Remember, don't tell anybody but nobody really wants independence in Scotland, it's just a few cyber nat extremists. The silent majority are all unionists, aren't they?

Oh, I even forgot the classic - Companies will pack their bags and move South the first chance they get if Scotland becomes independent. Dear, oh dear, crivvens and help ma baob - Whateffer will happen tae us?

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04/06/2008 19:47:49
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kimba,

04/06/2008 19:48:52
As for the rest of you bigoted sprogs, go forth and multiply! It was good enough for my parents and grandparents,it gave me a excellent education,and a £19,000 plus job at 22, you falsely think that the grass will be greener on the other side,don't you realise it won't, how long will the oil last,not long, then what! let the past go,if we all work together we can be the greatest country in the world.
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04/06/2008 19:49:42
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Jeanette Mc,

04/06/2008 19:50:26
322. You don't have to explain yourself or your history to these people.
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04/06/2008 19:51:26
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04/06/2008 19:52:55
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04/06/2008 19:52:59
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04/06/2008 19:55:25
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04/06/2008 19:55:54
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04/06/2008 19:56:27
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kimba,

04/06/2008 19:57:55
326. So how long will scotland be able to depend on oil,10 years, 20 years,what happens when the oil runs out!
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04/06/2008 19:59:02
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04/06/2008 20:02:59
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You can stick your independence up your a***!!,

04/06/2008 20:06:04
If the Gnats get their Oil will they also pay off their share of the National Debt?

Are they prepared to take on the £134 billion of national debt (£53,000 of debt per household)?

In fact it's likely to be higher than that once they start having to pay the pensions of Scotland's bloated public sector.
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04/06/2008 20:08:46
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The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

04/06/2008 20:10:14
#334 I suspect they will do as the present government has done and countries round the world have done - issue Treasury bills and bonds.

One of our Nat posters could perhaps confirm this?
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04/06/2008 20:13:08
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ThomasP,

04/06/2008 20:19:04
334

And if it can be proven that Scotland has been sending a surplus to the UK Treasury for years then why should we take on any of the National Debt?

Because if we have been sending a surplus to the Treasury each year then technically Scotland never did generate a debt.
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04/06/2008 20:19:50
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ThomasP,

04/06/2008 20:21:04
334

Are you forgetting the amount of Oil Wealth Scotland also sent to the Treasury since the discovery of oil?

As much as 250 billion pounds has been sent to the Treasury.

Scotland could well say "Well you had the best 30 years of the Oil Wealth....Now beat it."
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04/06/2008 20:22:15
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04/06/2008 20:24:22
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Evia,

04/06/2008 20:24:49
Liam Byrne can take his Britishness day and stick it where the sun don't shine.

I feel like a foreigner in this land in which I was born. Get rid of all the illegals and economic migrants. Get our lazy, work-shy off their ar$es and make them work or do without. I might then be able to feel British.
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kimba,

04/06/2008 20:25:31
335. I admire your principles ( I think your wrong) however, my principles are these; we can have our own seperate parliaments for domestic matters,and have a UK parliament for defence,foreign affairs etc
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Jeanette Mc,

04/06/2008 20:28:40
345. Very well said!
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ThomasP,

04/06/2008 20:34:11
Kimba.

It is Scottish Independence or nothing.
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ThomasP,

04/06/2008 20:36:51
Kimba.

By the way you have been incredibly offensive to the Scottish Nationalists and to the SNP and her members but you insist we keep the British Parliament but hold seperate Parliaments for our countries?

You should re-think your stance against the SNP and the Nationalists if you are suggesting we continue in the Union instead of insulting the Scottish Government.
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04/06/2008 20:38:03
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Jeanette Mc,

04/06/2008 20:38:03
349. Rubbish, compared to the vile, bullying comments on here from the Nats, Kimba and others have been restrained. I think 345 is a well put statement of common sense.
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brownlie,

04/06/2008 20:38:49
324 Jeanette

"You don't have to explain yourself or your history to these people"

Absolutely on the ball, Jeanette, it is completely against unionist policy to offer any explanations to the numpties who will still vote for us in their droves.

To condescend to offer explanations could lead to the electorate believing that we have to take some responsibilty for our actions and that simply would not do at all.
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The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

04/06/2008 20:41:13
#335 "You need to get away from your oil fixation, but to be fair to you, you are way far from being alone in this."

I made this point last week - many unionists and nationalists are obsessed with the narrow oil debate. The decision about independence is not wholly an economic one.

That being said - one cannot ignore the economics entirely. However, I am more interested in the post-oil economic situation. In particular the types of economic policies that should be implemented to allow Scotland to become less reliant on oil.

I know much has been made of the Norwegian situation, where they, sensibly, have built up a petroleum fund (The Government Pension Fund of Norway) of some $400 billion. It is the largest pension fund in Europe and the second largest in the world.

My understanding is, and correct me if I am wrong, is that a surplus of around £4.4 billion per annum could exist at current market prices. This sounds great until you compare it to the surplus of around £44 billion that Norway will generate in the current year.

Would that surplus be sufficient in the long run?

Could it be increased by altering taxation and expenditure policies?

I'm not the expert and would be interested to hear more from those in the know. Even if we did not become independent it is still relevent to the debate - particularly in the area of fiscal autonomy.
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All Politicians are the same,

Scotland 04/06/2008 20:44:06
As Independence cannot be properly costed before the SNP have policies on, Defence, Currency, Embassies, foreign relations, Energy, transport etc we are wasting our time. I say again, it is not about money it is about wanting to be Independent.
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The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

04/06/2008 20:45:35
#337 National Debt is running at £487 billion according to most recent Treasury figures. These figures have been criticised by some as they don't include public sector pension liabilities, the true costs of PFI or any debts incurred by Network Rail.
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ThomasP,

04/06/2008 20:50:44
351 Jeanette Mc

I am a Scottish Nationalists and I never speak ill of anyone who may have different views then myself.

Kimba on multiple occasions used "You Nats..." as a start to one of her come backs when someone said something which was out of order.

Kimba collectivly insulted every Scottish Nationalist including me by those two words.

I would appreciate it if Kimba and other Unionists to treat the Nationalists with some respect. I understand some are b@stards but I do not think I deserve to be collectivly offended.

Fair enough if you made a personal comment..but without naming one group would be much less offensive.
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04/06/2008 20:59:13
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04/06/2008 21:00:42
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Scottish not British,

04/06/2008 21:08:55
#322
It meant that my friends and I left school at 17 with decent grades yet no one could get a job and only a couple were able to go to uni due to the expense associated eventually most of them found poorly paid jobs and now work all the hours send for minimum wage whilst the cost of living rockets. It means none of us can afford to buy a house and it is unlikely anyone will be able to for a long time since there are few jobs and prospects. I got lucky and attend university but with the level of debt involved part of me wonders why I bother. Clearly this is what I mean it serves England, not Scotland. We are not the same country and the one size fits all approach, does not work. Given the UK lust for squandering its no wonder the oil is running out (apparently, but that's been the battle cry of unionists for decades, so pinch of salt time). Scots are industrious, capable and hardworking people and regardless we'll get through it. Also as I have said the union is dead, it can not be great, its day are numbered. You call people who actually love their country bigots for no other reason than they don't want to be ruled by a country not their own. Would you like to surrender the leadership of England to France or somewhere?
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Nikostratos,

04/06/2008 21:22:12
Paid day off yes please who care what its called.........Call it I'm tired and don't want to go to work day.............Most of the Nat's don't work and so like to argue about those who do work having a free holiday...just plain jealousy thats all
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All Politicians are the same,

Scotland 04/06/2008 21:26:40
#362

I left school with good grades worked hard at University including part time jobs to minimise debt which i paid off and now earn a very tidy sume. all in the same Scotland as you.
284

Willie Macleod,

Wick 04/06/2008 21:30:40
Britishness Day Scottishness Day

No Nationality Day would be welcome.

A day free from all this "my country is better than yours" nonsense
285

Nikostratos,

04/06/2008 21:37:30
#367

Too American.......and who would be the leading man
286

Mr. Lachie Todd,

Edinburgh 04/06/2008 21:43:49
Anyone watching last night's 1985 BBC documentary: Real Lives: Edge of the Union, about the dual lives of a prominent Sinn Fein and DUP politician must have been utterly baffled by the introductory montage, and archive film from that period in history?

It clearly showed a black soldier in the British Army, a citizen of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, patrolling the streets of Belfast at the height of the Troubles, overshadowed by IRA slogans painted on the gable end of a building stating:
"BRITS OUT - TIME TO GO"

I wonder what this black BRITISH soldier thought about the irony of this slogan?
287

Scottish not British,

04/06/2008 21:44:29
#366
Personal experience is a varied thing. My saving grace is not taking out excess loans and refusing credit cards (although it is tempting) to avoid more debt than necessary (and for an economy so insecure I'm amazed at the frequency and volume of offers).
288

Nikostratos,

04/06/2008 21:44:51
#366

Couldn't lend us £50 for a drink. You being so rich an all
289

Nikostratos,

04/06/2008 21:47:03
#372

You wanna get out more......Life is only the once no second chances
290

Conan the Librarian™,

04/06/2008 21:57:45
374
Niko, you asked my opinion of the new Indiana Jones? My daughter has just seen, and rather liked it.
291

ThomasP,

04/06/2008 22:02:48
371 Mr. Lachie Todd,Edinburgh

Can I ask why you brouhgt up that this soldier was black?

You pointed out that the slogen was directed at Brits and this soldier served the British Army.

Why point out the person was black?
292

Scottish not British,

04/06/2008 22:11:06
#374
I suspect you may have a point...
293

,

04/06/2008 22:11:51
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
294

yoric,

04/06/2008 22:38:39
When will those thickos in Westminster accept the fact that the English want St Georges day in April as a bank holiday.

Im'e sure St Andrews day should be a bank holiday in Scotland as well.
295

,

04/06/2008 22:40:58
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
296

Montford's Jaicket,

Hanging around 04/06/2008 23:06:13
Forget April 23 - too cold. How about June 24, the anniversary of Bannockburn?

Are we going to have a party in 6 years time to celebrate the 700th anniversary?
297

Yankee girl,

USA 04/06/2008 23:28:55
373 Niko: £50 for a drink? Seems like a lotta booze. Maybe it should be £50 for a drunk? ;)
298

Conan the Librarian™,

04/06/2008 23:49:02
385
Col.
At 2% by volume that's not even up to Kenny's beloved cooking lager.

Though 200 cans will probably get you p!shed though.

Eventually.
299

Yankee girl,

USA 05/06/2008 00:04:50
385, 386 - Conan and Col. B. Thanks, as always, for putting things in perspective!
300

Conan the Librarian™,

05/06/2008 00:27:19
387
Always a pleasure Yankee girl:-)
301

Yankee girl,

USA 05/06/2008 00:52:51
388 - Conan, it's after midnight! Are you a night owl?
302

Conan the Librarian™,

05/06/2008 01:14:07
389
Wife is away on holiday Yankee girl, can never sleep when she's away.
We have four dogs and an aversion to kennels is the answer to a usual next question about holiday arrangements;-)
303

Yankee girl,

USA 05/06/2008 01:26:00
390 - Darn, hope you can sleep just a little while she's away. Maybe you can find a place to holiday that allows dogs and you two can go together!
304

Conan the Librarian™,

05/06/2008 01:31:42
391
Going to try now Yankee girl. Night night:-)
305

Royster,

05/06/2008 06:40:07
What about Trafalgar Day? There were English, Scots, Welsh, Irish, Africans, Creoles, French (yes French) and Chinese (Mr Wong from Canton) all fighting for British. You can take a look at the pay book logs at the Greenwich Maritime museum - it's on the internet I believe. It's on October 21st - a very bleak period for bank hoolidays.
306

Phil the Flooter,

05/06/2008 19:39:24
Ealasaid #286 'You do not have to live in England five minutes before you realise that the 'English' (who usually call themselves British as if the two things are the same) are already bemoaning their loss of identity'

No they bloody aint. I see this as a common theme from some Scots, quoting an Academic who ISNT speaking for us. I am English, and like MOST of my countrymen we are not bemoaning a 'Loss of Identity', we are ENGLISH first and BRITISH second. And before the insults start to fly I support Scottish Independence. 'The loss of Identity theme seems to be Scottish wishfull thinking.
307

Phil the Flooter,

05/06/2008 19:39:24
Ealasaid #286 'You do not have to live in England five minutes before you realise that the 'English' (who usually call themselves British as if the two things are the same) are already bemoaning their loss of identity'

No they bloody aint. I see this as a common theme from some Scots, quoting an Academic who ISNT speaking for us. I am English, and like MOST of my countrymen we are not bemoaning a 'Loss of Identity', we are ENGLISH first and BRITISH second. And before the insults start to fly I support Scottish Independence. 'The loss of Identity theme seems to be Scottish wishfull thinking.
308

Phil the Flooter,

Perthsire 05/06/2008 19:39:58
Why the hell did that post twice..

 

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