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Ex-defence chiefs' verdict on Brown: dithering and failing British troops

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Published Date: 07 November 2009
THREE former defence chiefs have attacked Gordon Brown's commitment to the war in Afghanistan, accusing the Prime Minister of dithering and failing British troops.
The criticism came on the day the Prime Minister made a speech to try to re-establish his pledge on the war, amid growing opposition to Britain's role.

General Lord Guthrie, the former chief of defence staff, accused Mr Brown of "dithering" over his promise to deploy 500 extra troops and told the House of Lords: "The people in the front line are questioning whether the government is really, really committed to making progress in Afghanistan."

Field Marshal Lord Inge, another former chief of defence staff, said the Armed Forces felt Mr Brown "has never really been on their side and they have not had his support".

Lord Boyce, a former head of the armed forces, said the government "did not realise we are at war".

Their comments came despite Mr Brown trying to issue his starkest message yet to the regime of President Hamid Karzai.

"I am not prepared to put the lives of British men and women in harm's way for a government that does not stand up against corruption," Mr Brown said.

He said the Afghan government would have to improve its performance in five key areas: security, governance, reconciliation, economic development and engagement with its neighbours.

"If the government fails to meet these five tests, it will have not only failed its own people, it will have forfeited its right to international support," the Prime Minister said.

Afghanistan's government has become "a byword for corruption", he added. But Mr Brown stopped short of outlining what sanctions – if any – would be imposed if the Afghan president failed to clean up his administration.

Critics said the Prime Minister risked issuing tough-sounding rhetoric without the substance to back it up.

Shadow defence secretary Dr Liam Fox said Mr Brown had to be careful that his message was not "confused by mixed messages or empty threats".

He said: "We must put pressure on the Karzai government to improve governance and tackle corruption, but if our mission in Afghanistan is a national security imperative, it can't be conditional on the behaviour of others."

Former Liberal Democrat leader Sir Menzies Campbell said: "The weakness of the Prime Minister's position is that it depends not only on President Karzai's good faith but also on his competence, neither of which have been in much evidence in recent months.

"To succeed, the allies will have to be willing to hold Karzai's' feet to the fire.

"The position is not helped by President Obama's long deliberation on a new strategy. He has created a vacuum at a time when decisiveness is essential."


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1

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 06/11/2009 22:53:37
Broon - Afghan policy.

Please don't make me laugh, I've got chapped lips.

Why the hell should Broon have an Afghan policy? Is he the president of Afghanistan?

Does he have a policy for my hoose?
2

The Former Mr. Angry,

Perth 07/11/2009 00:15:56
That statement today may have been meant to sound decisive and to show signs of leadership but signally failed in both areas. If he was really that serious he would put some effort into supplying the troops and guiding and steering the war effort, but neither of these obtains. He says somewhat ironically that Karzai has to clean up or else he'll withdraw support, but then in the next sentence says we will not withdraw until the "mission" is over and police and army have been mentored to cope no matter what Karzai does. Odd. He also plans to win and lose and if we do either we all do it together. Eh? When you go to war it's for keeps not his usual ambiguous approach so that he can bail out comfortably no matter what happens. A very poor show and no doubt being keenly observed by both generals and troops.
3

Cynical,

Edinburgh 07/11/2009 00:22:48
Please educate your sub - editors or whoever writes your headlines in grammar.

The above needs a comma after dithering or it looks like it is calling the troops ditherers.

Quality newspaper?

You judge.
4

Beachcomber,

Edinburgh 07/11/2009 01:11:10
Karzai is a CIA placeman, his brother is alledgedly(sp)involved in Drugs.

Our children are dying for THIS SCUM?

Broon's clueless and our kids are dying as a result..
5

Letters From Muscat,

edinburgh 07/11/2009 03:12:39
What a quagmire. And now the americans are shooting soldiers BEFORE they go. Bring them home, a planned withdrawal, talk rather than attempting to bring'democracy' to a corrupt nation. Oh this whole war just makes me sick. I don't even believe a word the ditherer says. I support the army but not the politicians.
6

Handsome Scotsman,

07/11/2009 03:26:52
To invade then successfully occupy someone elses country takes a lot more than a few hundred troops and some strong language.

This half hearted attempt on a shoe string budget is doomed to failure.
7

rickypop,

07/11/2009 07:26:46
Someone tell me why we are in afghanistan?
Brown is a liar. Tell the truth and if its about gas and oil let the people decide.
More kids dead on political lies. More poverty on banking lies. Where is it all going?
8

Draco Was a Wimp,

Edinburgh 07/11/2009 08:29:28
#7 rickpop

We're in Afghanistan supposedly to keep the streets of Britain safe. No politician has the bal*s to mention that the main reason the streets of the UK AREN'T safe is the very regular and largely unrestricted traffic between this country and Pakistan. The main danger we face is the number of Islamist zoomers originating from THAT country that live amongst us and who justify terrorist attacks on 'non believers' here and abroad. The only solution is to bring the troops home and leave them to kill each other,
9

Oldhabits,

07/11/2009 08:38:41
#3

You are right, a poorly worded statement.

What is more important however, is that we all put a full stop after Gordon Brown.
10

lulach mac gille coemgain,

07/11/2009 10:27:32
#3 I think it is the Scotsman and their pro- Gordon Brown stance - that’s why they are calling the troops ditherers and telling us they are failing !
11

Vivas,

Edinburgh 07/11/2009 10:49:55
Toom can lie to himself all he wants, who knows what fantasy landscape inhabits the space between his ears...

But FFS, lay off peddaling the Afghanistan lie to everyone else. No one's buying it.
12

baroda,

Spain 07/11/2009 10:56:14
The labour lot have ruined Britain. They conned the people in 1997 that they would change things and they certainly have but not for the better. Broon listenes to nobody. The soldiers are in a no win situation. Broon said if they dont clean up the corrption in Afghanistan they would lose international support but does not state a time limit. Him and the Con man blair could not make a decision if there life depended on it. The government does not care how many soldiers die as the dont rate people who joined up as anything other than cannon foder. We dont see Brown or any of his other cowardly side kicks turning up to see the dead repatriated,all they want to do is take the money and run, Not for very much longer i hope. He peddles the threat of terrorism as the reason we are in Afghanistan But if i am right the scum who done the london bombings came from Leeds. They must bring the troops home and not let any more die for nothing.
13

Jay Kay,

07/11/2009 11:15:55
If that a*hole broon had pumped 2.3 trillion into into the countrys infra-stucture, roads, rail and bridges, hospitals, prisons, education instead of giving it to the f***ing *ankers this country would be in a far better position to defend itself.

Britain is totally ruined and this clown still thinks he's right ffs, bring the troops home today, throw out all illegal imigrants today, on the next boat out of the uk, use the army in this country to defend pensioners and the good honest people of this country from the gangs of feral kids who no longer have respect for anything or anyone and get us out of this bloody awful EU, more money poured down the drain.

Gordon Brown economist, the man who gave away 600tonnes of our gold and bought paper worthless euroes, now the price of gold is three times what it was worth 18 months ago. I would analyse gordon brown in footbal terms as the goalkeeper, however this one just keeps throwing the ball into his own net, the fans and manager would sack him in a second but we are lumbared with this to**er until next June when someone is going to have to drag him screaming out of Dwowning Street, "no you can't do that I'm the best Prime Minister ever do you hear me" right into the straight jacket and looney bin.
14

danbob,

07/11/2009 12:35:45
Starting a war is easy. Stopping it and getting out is more difficult.
15

dalriadan,

Glasgow 07/11/2009 13:08:11
For Rememberance day i'll be thinking about the million people dead in Iran. Also for the countless displaced.
About how futile and barbaric it's been. That Blair will be remembered as a smiling butcher.
16

Jo Public,

07/11/2009 13:12:01
#14. We shouldn't be there in the first place. Britain is not the world's policeman and should remember it's not an empire anymore. They should realise Muslim countries like Afghanistan will never convert to so-called western values (which is a laugh in itself seeing the state of the western world now). Christian and Muslim countries should live apart. There is no chance of multi-culturism.
17

Jo Public,

07/11/2009 13:13:14
#15 The fact Bliar is roaming free is a disgrace.
18

dalriadan,

glasgow 07/11/2009 14:55:02
There's something grotesque about the unrelenting media terms these days. Everyday it's "our heroes" this "our heroes" that.
They are not heroes by any yardstick. They've got an arsenal of weapons behind them that could take out a whole country.
They're not there to benefit Afghan women, democracy, or anything remotely humane. Strategic power and future oil connections. That's it
They're wasting their time and wasting time for the Afghan people.
19

ecosseman,

FACTS NOT PROPAGANDA 07/11/2009 15:36:24
GOD BLESS THEIR LOST SOULS.

END THIS MADNESS NOW.

IT WILL END SOONER OR LATER.
SO END IT NOW,NOT LATER!

ROLL ON THE ELECTION!
20

dalriadan,

Glasgow 07/11/2009 16:19:07
19
What do you think a general election will achieve? Do you actually believe that the Tories wouldn't instigate more illegal wars?
21

Media for one,

07/11/2009 18:25:33
Not good for Brown! He has to the worst Prime Minister in the history of British politics?
22

Jo'Burg Jock,

Sout Africa 07/11/2009 19:10:10
Media for one,07/11/2009 18:25:33

Says:-
Not good for Brown! He has to be the worst Prime Minister in the history of British politics?
_______________________________________________________

Worst Economist - Worst depression in 50 Years.

Worst Humanitarian - Wars go on and on.

Worst Economist - sold half the gold reserves at one quarter of today's value.

Worst "Son of the Manse" - "thou shalt not kill" Iraq war and Afghanistan war.

Worst Economist - Boom And Bust record.

Worst Orator - "I saved the world".

Worst Economist - Prints more and more money.

Worst democrat - Promised a referendum on Europe.
____________________________________________________

GORDON BROWN ALSO EXCELS AS THE BEST LIAR (AFTER BLAIR).

23

Thistledhu,

07/11/2009 19:11:15
21 agree brown clearly is out of his depth .

re post 20 our invovlvement in afghanistan is not illegal
24

Observer,,

Glasgow 07/11/2009 19:40:40
23 It might not be illegal but it's bloody stupid and the British will be kicked out. Nothing is more certain. I would have a lot more respect for the Chiefs if they were telling Brown to get the troops the hell out. Asking Brown to commit more troops and give them better equipment is just prolonging the inevitable defeat.
25

Letters From Muscat,

edinburgh 07/11/2009 21:20:41
Bring them home. Brown, you got it wrong. Politicians sending other peoples' sons and daughters out to fight, christ stop the war now.
26

langtonian,

uphall 07/11/2009 21:21:00
Wellington examining the roster of officers assigned to him for the 1810 campaign in Portugal,said,"I only hope that when the enemy reads the list of their names he trembles as I do.

Fast forward to 2010, insert the names;General Lord Gurthrie;Field Marshall Lord Inge;Lord Boyce;their former individual senior U.K. military appointments are detailed above..It is most likely, Wellington would repeat his comment on any current roster presented to him with these three stalwarts theron.

Former Senior army officers,speaking from the plush benches of the House of Lords,barley disguise their Conservative leanings in an unambiguouse attack on the elected Prime Minister of the UK.

It is quite inconceivable that accusationts ,expressed in the Upper House would, not be seen as giving comfort to those enemey forces our own UK forces are having to face and deal with on a day to day millitary basis.

William Shakespear has long parted this mortal coil;it would appear many of the characteritics relating to Julius Ceaser,s enemies(100-44BC)have remained in military/political vogue.
27

langtonian,

uphall 07/11/2009 21:56:48
A resume of many many of the above poster's places them in the same cattegories as the three "stalwart's nomminated by Gerri Peev.

FACT.In central Edinburgh their is a pick up point for new recruits,it happens on a frequent basis,at no time have I ever had any impression that these young men are being coerced or forced to join the armed forces.
It is certain by the time they muster in Edinburgh they have had advice from the army authorities,their parents will have been advised,they will have been passed fit for millitary sevice.The next step is training ,square bashing and all the measures inclusive to that point in time.

These are not totaly nieve,led by the nose persons,they appear bright ,intelligent young men who seem to generate an immediate rapport with their new colleagues.

Those who I have seen interviewed by the media from whatever part of the world they arrive in ,know what the score is ,they know what dire cosequencies may befall them; it is not they that doubt, their duty and purpose,the support they look for is from the upper echelons of those in charge of their day to day duties and most of all from famillies,friend's back home in the UK.That from a miniscule minority is not forthcoming; shame on all such ingrates..

28

jafra loo,

07/11/2009 22:09:42
there's no pretending

home rule

better work here for all our people, inclusive not exclusive

We have the added charm, we don't have a problem.
29

jafra loo,

07/11/2009 22:12:02
mince
30

Huntly loon,

Aberdeenshire 07/11/2009 23:10:48
The War in Afghanistan is unwinnable. ALL wars in Afghanistan are unwinnable. They were unwinnable in the 19th century when the British Empire was the world's military superpower and we were based in what is now India and Pakistan. It was unwinnable in the 20th century when the mighty neighbouring Soviet Union with 1,000,000 men for 10 years could not defeat the Afghans. It is unwinnable now.

The sooner we deal direct with the Taliban and come to an understanding with them the better. We cannot bring democracy or human rights to Afghanistan. Only the Afghans can achieve that themselves. Karzai is a corrupt president of a failed state.

Bring our forces home and with the money saved use our resources to tackle the real threats of terrorism at home. We need to rebuild our trust with the Islamic world. The best we can do is use our best endeavours to bring a lasting peace in Palestine. Our forces would have been better sent there to protect the citizens of Gaza from the Israelis and help in rebuilding that community.
31

langtonian,

uphall 08/11/2009 00:10:14
Thank you for a history lesson which in all probability I was aware of when you were but a gleam in in your parent's eye.

One conflict at a time;sticking with Afghan;the main concern is that the Pakistan structure comes under an intolerable fracturing of i'ts internal viability by Taliban/al Quida,at which point the war has nuclear potential that is the big overall concern.

Prevention being better than cure does mean being involved in what then becomes a world wide seriouse problem.In an ideal world there would be no guns ,no armies ,no nuclear weapons;we do not live in an ideal world.

Currently the requierment is for there to be seriouse action from more who promised but so far have not delivered.

As you are well aware no sane person approves of global warfare, any warfare;culling the sources of arms should be the United Nations primary function.

It may seem trite but nevertheless it is a truism that the pen is mightier than the sword and long term that would be in the interests of all nations and all human beings.


 

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