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Economy could shrink 4.5% 'and the banks are to blame'

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Published Date: 20 July 2009
A WARNING that Britain's economy will shrink by 4.5 per cent this year – the biggest fall in a single year since 1945 – is set to spark fresh concern over the government's plummeting finances with figures due this week.
The forecast today from the influential Ernst & Young Item Club is considerably more pessimistic than the 3.5 per cent fall predicted by the government.

And it implies that the public finances are in an even more dire state than was believed. Th
e forecast will bring critical attention to bear on official figures due tomorrow on the budget deficit numbers for June and for the April-June quarter.

The Item Club forecast warns that hopes of economic recovery are "running ahead of reality". But it does predict a return to modest growth of 0.5 per cent next year.

Professor Peter Spencer, economic adviser to the Item Club, said: "Unfortunately, it is hard to see any very solid grounds for sustained optimism at the moment. It remains unclear how quick and complete recovery will be, and there is still a serious chance of relapse."

Indeed, some analysts believe that, despite hopes the worst of the downturn may be behind us, there could be a so-called "double dip" recession, where the economy stabilises before contracting again.

The only "ray of hope", said the Item Club, was a recovery in world trade, which UK exporters would be able to exploit due to the weak pound. The main reason for the gloomy outlook, the club said, was the fact that banks were still not lending enough to boost the economy.

"There is currently little sign of any extra lending to either companies or consumers. Banks are saying that they will expand lending more aggressively over the next three months, but it seems unlikely that they will be able to meet the demand for credit," argued Prof Spencer.

This could spark a fresh torrent of protest over Royal Bank of Scotland if, as some predict, the bank announces a dramatic rebound into profit for the six months to end June.

The Item Club's downbeat forecast will bring even greater scrutiny to bear on Britain's public finances.

Figures out tomorrow are expected to show the UK's deficit soared last month to £15.8 billion, more than double the figure a year ago. And for the April-June quarter, Citigroup economist Michael Saunders expects the deficit to have spiralled to a record high of £46.3bn from £21.5bn a year earlier.

Deeper-than-expected recession is tearing into tax revenues, while unemployment adds to government spending.

The Item Club also warns today of the threat to the economy from swine flu. If doomsday predictions do materialise, it forecasts a further 3 per cent contraction in GDP this year.

However, the prediction is not the consensus view. Last week, the IMF forecast that GDP would shrink by 3.75 per cent this year. And preliminary GDP figures for the second quarter, due on Friday, are likely to show the economy shrinking at a slower pace than preceding quarters.

SCOTS FIRMS 'HIT BY LACK OF COMPETITION IN BANKING'

FINANCE secretary John Swinney has warned that a lack of competition in the banking sector means Scottish businesses are losing out.

In a letter to Chancellor Alistair Darling, Mr Swinney has backed concerns raised by The Scotsman that the merger of HBOS and Lloyds TSB, which was supported by the UK government, means that businesses are finding it harder to get loans, although the majority of firms can still get access to cash.

His letter follows a survey carried out by the Scottish Government between March and April 2009, which showed a significant increase in the number of businesses being turned down for loans.

Mr Swinney suggested this was because RBS and Lloyds, both now largely owned by the taxpayer, control 75 per cent of the market.

"The survey demonstrates our concern over lack of competition in the finance market following the merger of HBOS with Lloyds TSB," the finance secretary said.

"We need competition and greater choice in financial products for our businesses to be able to contribute to the growth and recovery of the economy.

"That is something the UK government must address and I have written to the Chancellor to demand he does exactly that."

The UK government has said that the merger of the banks was needed to prevent full nationalisation of HBOS. It claims that it is pushing banks to provide better loan facilities to companies.





The full article contains 763 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 19 July 2009 9:44 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
 
1

Darien,

Panama 20/07/2009 01:03:44
"The only "ray of hope", said the Item Club, was a recovery in world trade, which UK exporters would be able to exploit due to the weak pound."

Bill, you must be aware (I hope) that England exports zip and has a trade balance worse than the US, and getting a lot worse by the day.

Scotland on the other hand has oodles of trade - oil, whisky, seafood, Baxter's soups, Tunnock's teacakes etc etc. Whisky is the UK's no.1 food&drink export, but to an independent Scotland it would be 10 times more important per capita. Oil exports per capita ditto. And seafood.

Face it, the oddly named UKofGB&NI is bust and has nothing to offer Scotland. Scotland's only hope is independence and focus on international trade, which it is already damn good at, unlike our JV partner England, which is bust and has little to offer.

If you want dynamic economic growth think of the Scots diaspora - many would come back to Scotland as a real nation and invest. You bet they would, in their droves.
2

Scotaway,

Wanchai 20/07/2009 01:06:02
The large losses of the banks banks were caused by reckless lending and the Government stepped in to recapitalise them. The problem now is that many businesses that prospered in times of easy credit may not have sustainable business models in an era of tighter liquidity. The banks are doing what they should have done in the past by adopting more prudent lending policies.

Forcing the banks to lend to loss making ventures cannot be the solution. There is now an inherent conflict between Government's ownership of the banks and its desire to increase lending to risky businesses. Prudent lending may cause more pain in the short term but it will result in stronger businesses and banks in the future.
3

Lord Fondlebhoys secret lovechild,

yacht in the med 20/07/2009 01:32:00
#1 Darien
Engerland still has a lot of good exports. Exports of BAE Systems Typhoons fighter/ bombers to Saudi and Rolls Royce engines for the European Airbus would easily dwarf the exports from Scotland. Then there's Agricultural, Medicine, Livestock, Banking, Breweries, Tourism, Engineering expertise, Shipbuilding, Motor engineering, , Arts etc......Goes on and on.
4

Phil C,

20/07/2009 01:32:37
#2 Scotaway

Yes the banks were shysters, but the blame for this puke-up economy lies squarely with bad government, 99% Labour, 1% the rest.

The last thing we need is the current climate of banks clamming up. Banks need to lend to the hopeful like before, but not to those who haven't behaved in the past. If prudent lending is anything like Brown's prudent slaying of the economy, then no thanks. Banks didn't lend recklessly. They bought recklessly, other companies and dodgy money.

The government's duty of keeping people in work has been sorely disregarded.
5

KampungHighlander,

Jakarta 20/07/2009 02:38:52
Though the Banks themselves are the obvious scapegoats for this mess, you must remember that the people who run these institutions are/where being constantly pressured by shareholders for greater earnings every quarter.

This however is supposed to be tempered by regulators who are supposed to make sure that commercial pressures don't lead to imprudent business practices.

The FSA has been an absolute failure in this regard. An organization who spent all its efforts trying to implement a wasteful, expensive and tick-box dominated bureaucratic environment for Independent Financial Advisers seems to have completely lost the plot when it came to the Banks.

But what do you expect when you create an organization solely staffed by idiot Lawyers without any real world financial experience.

They should scrap the FSA completely and start again from scratch.
6

Observer,,

Glasgow 20/07/2009 04:46:12
This is hilarious, although in an abstract sense, the RBS are going to be making profits ? FFS, it is publicly owned. So the profits will be going back to the tax payer right ? See what I mean about hilarious.
7

billengland,

20/07/2009 05:50:30
"There is currently little sign of any extra lending to either companies or consumers."

This is excellent news. It is extra lending that caused the financial crisis in the first place.

Cut back on lending, and you will see an improvement. Until then, bailing out banks, companies, spendthrift councils and borrowers will just make things worse.
8

donald,

glasgow 20/07/2009 05:58:07
Engerland is short of heiocpters to bomb people.
9

Andrew Horton,

20/07/2009 07:01:56
Why do people call England 'Engerland'? Because they find it hilarious when bigots come here and call Scotland 'Scotchland'? If you can't ignore them, join them?

Better to criticise the New Labour government for allowing the fastest loss of manufacturing to the UK -- even faster, I believe, than what it was during the Thatcher years. Incredibly the UK's reliance on the service sector was planned and thought a good idea!

#6 Observer - yes, in the form of growth of share price.
10

Jimmy Le Pie,

20/07/2009 07:22:53
Comrade Broon and his corrupt, self serving bunch of degenerates are to blame!!

They are, and have been the government for the last 12 or so years.
11

JayJay,

Right here 20/07/2009 08:16:32
Lets not get the flags and bunting out just yet for the profitable-once-again RBS. Lurking in the background is the £350bn underwrite of dodgy property loans and even dodgier, fancy dan derivative trading. Mind you, just watch as the assinine stock market enthusiastically bigs up banking share prices....the Chuckle Brothers in Downing Street will be itching to flip the bank back to one of the favoured few, then tell everyone that their economic strategy has been a triumph - usefully just in time for an election.
Meanwhile the taxpayer will be left holding a £350bn baby and, when the fat bonuses return, all the little people can enjoy the "benefits" of the new-Labour endorsed City philosophy, wherebye the state takes the losses and the private sector keeps the profits.
This isn't about "prudent lending". The philosophy driving the banks now is lending with no risks - any risks perceived (and that means unsecured lending and cashflow finance) and facilities are either repriced or withdrawn.
And isn't that a great outcome for all. The Banks create the problem, knacker the economy, then make things worse for the whole country by sucking up billions from the state and squeezing customers. And throwing tens of thousands of their own staff onto the state payroll. Farcical!
12

ebbi,

spain 20/07/2009 08:24:56
but hallelujah footsie is up again.
does this number truly represent the state of the economy??? or is it just a fancy number coming from cuckoo land ???
13

BIG EYE,

Paisley 20/07/2009 08:37:13
As Broon continues to spend at record levels, Government income is plummeting due to the credit crunch.

The amazing thing is there are some people who think this is the solution.
14

TWC,

exLabour 20/07/2009 08:44:16
As the Brown Darling figures become more and more unlikely the excuses start. Today it's the Banks, tomorrow it will be the flu.
Fact is darling's numbers were crazy and the Lib dems and the Tories said they were at the time.

15

David55,

20/07/2009 08:46:46
#11 - Group Captain Lionel Mandrake

Did you go to be early last night? You're usually the first guy commenting on these threads. Standards are slipping.
16

dhu loch,

Inveraray 20/07/2009 08:49:51
Gordon Brown said ''This shrinkage of GDP by 4.5% represents a Growth of GDP of 8.5%,as I had Brought forward Growth in previous years.....unlike the Tories who.....I'll do whatever it takes.....Global economic conditions which we are taking the lead.....hard working families.....''
17

BIG EYE,

Paisley 20/07/2009 08:54:02
17.

He's not usually that eloquent!
18

TWC,

exLabour 20/07/2009 08:59:11
16 David55,

He's another Labour poodle who hates Scotland doing well. They think if Scotland is successful it's a victory for SNP. Sad really but it is the reason that they are plummeting with the voters.

19

TWC,

exLabour 20/07/2009 09:00:22
17,

He's leaving no stone un-turned and doing everything necessary .... I don't think.
20

billengland,

20/07/2009 09:23:58
@13 ebbi

The FTSE 100 is an indication of business confidence.

It is where it has been since November apart from a dip in March. Beware the double dip, coming your way soon.
21

Luigiana,

Aberdeen 20/07/2009 09:27:38
#14 BIG EYE

"The amazing thing is there are some people who think this is the solution."

The amazing thing is that organisations are still willing to loan money to the bankrupt UK. It seems there are still people willing to give "sub-prime" loans.
22

Observer,,

Glasgow 20/07/2009 09:51:25
9 OK Andrew can you explain to me how that is going to work ?
23

EHP ,

20/07/2009 09:52:13
SCOTTISH banks!
24

Observer,,

Glasgow 20/07/2009 09:53:51
And yes I do know how the shares system works, but I would like to know how you think the subsidy made to the banks is going to come back to the tax payer, who are funding the loan repayments.
25

Darien,

Panama 20/07/2009 09:54:44
#3 Lord etc: "Engerland still has a lot of good exports."

Sorry old boy, the trade balance tells a different story. Plus manufacturing there has collapsed and unlikely to return.
26

TWC,

exLabour 20/07/2009 09:58:01
23 Group Captain Lionel Mandrake,
Although I don't choose Independence I think most Nats are pro Scotland, as I said before only the Labour poodles seem to celebrate when something bad is attached to Scotland.
Your delight in Oil decline(a myth BTW) and claim that we now only export soup, is typical. It is this kind of comment that causes more people to support the Nats.
27

Darien,

Panama 20/07/2009 10:04:00
#25 EHP: "SCOTTISH banks!"

Afraid not. These banks were/are city of London banks. They had a brass plate on a door in Scotland, nothing more. And the vast majority (95%+) of their toxic debts are outwith Scotland (i.e. mostly in rest UK and overseas).

An independent Scottish government would not therefore have had to bail them out: what would be the point of Scotland bailing out foreign (i.e. London and international) trading banks with toxic debts mostly in England? Do you think Westmidden bailed them out to "save Scotland" or "save the world" like Broon said? Ha ha. The vast % of their toxic debts are not even in Scotland. New Labour slight of hand trick, again.
28

Andrew Horton,

20/07/2009 10:10:42
24 Observer

A simplified explanation: RBS makes profits. Balance sheet improves. RBS able to re-invest. Confidence in bank grows. Share price increases. Threat of bank nationalisation reduced. Confidence in bank grows. Share price increases. Threat of nationalisation reduced. Confidence in bank grows. ... Government sells shares and recoups most, if not all, if not more than, initial public spend. RBS dividends begin again. Share price increases. Many of the elderly who invested in the banks and rely solely on dividends have more to eat.

To not allow RBS to make profits is to cripple the bank and to cripple the economy. I don't know why it still needs explained. Unfortunately the public bailout was necessary -- whether we are happy about our cash being spent on the bankers or not. What New Labour, and especially Brown, ought to be blamed for is not for bailing out the banks but allowing the banks to get into such a situation where we needed to bail them out. They were in love with, and in bed with, the bankers -- they didn't understand the banks, and they have the audacity to call the Tories the bankers' friends. Most of the world's economists made the mistake of believing a global economy would be self-correcting as it would swallow any rot, they didn't realise the rot could spread. Unfortunately New Labour have still failed to learn this lesson, as was demonstrated with the creation of Lloyds Group. I'm as angry as most with the amount of public money gone into the banks and the way the banks have failed to respond adequately (though we need to remember they are being told to both increase lending and to improve balance sheets), but nobody wins if we cripple the banks now.
29

The Former Mr. Angry,

Perth 20/07/2009 10:23:29
The Banks are only to blame in the sense that no external force was applied to make them conform to a more prudent business model. Evidently CEOs liek Goodwin took full advantage of the laxity of control and went hell for leather to make risky purchases. The blame lies squarely with Brown and his idiot tripartite system which must have been created to make it impossible to place responsibility on any one of the three and so let the economy rip, take the extra tax and the credit and let us all pay for it tomorrow. Well tomorrow is here and there's no sign of any change in his behaviour and plenty of largesse still in evidence.

So excellent news that when Cameron gets in he will assign full responsibility to the BoE and will do away with the FSA, which has so manifestly failed in its objectives.
30

Phil C,

20/07/2009 11:00:16
We need a real Bank of Scotland, backed by the Scottish people and the Scottish Government. This would be a good time. A growing unused infrastructure is there, a growing number of redundant staff is there, a growing need is there.

Let's stop kowtowing to Westminster, who have brazenly stolen our banks through destruction and rescue, and get on with it ourselves. We'll need it more in a prosperous independent future.
31

Number 6,

Germany 20/07/2009 11:31:21
How will the Labour flock react to this ?.

I thought we were best placed to see off this recession. Will they simply swallow this latest
piece of news, as usual, without a murmur ?
32

Tartan Viking,

20/07/2009 11:34:40
#32. Well said.

#33. We'll expect a statement from the ever influential Iain Gray.

Ha ha....only kidding. He must rank amongst the most ineffective leader of a political party since the dawn of time.
33

dhu loch,

Inveraray 20/07/2009 11:37:18
25 EHP
I think an English Nationalist Party is the answer,what do you think?
34

Number 6,

Germany 20/07/2009 11:46:29
#34 Tartan Viking,

His handler's are probably working on a "Statement" as we speak. They will know that some of their Scottish flock will have heard this news.

As soon as they can work in an anti Salmond angle, we will hear it.
35

The Saltire,

20/07/2009 12:34:34
11 Hello Smee

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6VDY-4R8PNHF-1&_user=10&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=d4ce4cf6bc97526ea0cbd9b330e999ad

And this link is completely independent with no political affiliations. How breathtakingly refreshing.
36

Tartan Viking,

20/07/2009 13:01:45
Supplemented by an Irn-Bru tax.
37

Arfur,

20/07/2009 13:11:36
Yet more confirmation of what every man and his dog knew - Darlings figures were a load of garbage which he picked from his nose.
38

Observer,,

Glasgow 20/07/2009 13:30:17
30 Thanks. That is roughly what I thought you were going to say, and I am not in favour of crippling the banks either. However I am not remotely convinced that the Govt have made the changes necessary to ensure that it all goes according to plan. The more I read the more it appears that Labour, at any rate, still view it as a measure of success if the whole merry-go-round starts again. I have read what Vince Cable said about the Chernobyl effect and I think he may be right. It seems to me that they have to do a hell of a lot more to ensure that the process you described actually happens.
39

The Saltire,

20/07/2009 13:39:08
42

And yet its more relevant, honest, accurate, significant and credible than any UK government link you have ever introduced on these threads on any subject. Which incidently was the whole point of putting it up there.
Whats the matter havent you got the $31 dollars to pay to see some real honest data?
40

The Saltire,

20/07/2009 13:42:00
41

Pay the $31 dollars and see the difference between credible statistics and your government corrupted garbage.
41

Andrew Horton,

20/07/2009 14:26:47
45 Observer

I agree that the government haven't done enough to prevent another collapse of the banking-system, however preventing banks from making a profit is not going to help.

I haven't much time to type at the moment, but if you don't read The Eye you may find the following scanned article from the current issue interesting as to part of the reason why there has been so little reform: http://tinyurl.com/nz63hm
42

Scotaway,

Wanchai 20/07/2009 14:35:07
#4 Phil C

Blaming it all on Labour is a bit harsh as I don't think the Tories or the SNP would have done any better. The Lib Dems may have, but they are too honest to ever be elected into power in the deceitful environment of UK politics. Nationalism would have made no difference either, indeed it might have been worse had we followed the path of Iceland.

There is no quick fix for the UK economy and it won't be suddenly solved by change of Government, although I do believe that would help the situation.

As I say often, the issue is not nationalism, but I do think that a referendum should be held and Scotland should make it's mind up. The rest of the World really doesn't care. I live in China which has more than 90 cities with a population greater than Scotland. The great interest that the nationalism debate generates in Scotland is barely heard by its immediate neighboours and is utterly irrelevant to the rest of the World community.
43

Phil C,

20/07/2009 15:42:09
#50 Scotway

I do think that the bunch of puddins pretending to govern the UK are largely responsible for the state of our economy, and that anyone else would have done much better.

I also think that the banks' problems were caused mainly by a lack of regulation (Brown is responsible for the regulatory mess), combined with the global banking crisis. The buying of sub-prime debt and the acquisition obsessed mentality of grossly overly paid tubes like Goodwin were at the root of it all. Neither activity was adequately supervised. The problem was irresponsible buying by the clowns in charge.

It certainly wasn't irresponsible lending that brought the house down, though this is easy to blame. It wasn't because of bad debt or 125% loans or self certified lending.

The fall in house prices started because the market over-heated, mainly because of greedy and immoral personal property investment (Buy to Let). Now the banks won't lend enough, compounding the problems. We need to get back to accessible lending as before, without any investment sharks. The collapse of businesses is mainly caused by banks that won't extend credit. Common factor? - banks that won't lend!

Banks sit on our £billions and look on as so many gasp for financial breathing space, always saying no. It's time our spineless government got tough on these crooks.
44

Scottish and Proud,

Glasgow 20/07/2009 16:20:37
First and foremost England then Uk has and always will be about London.

The city of london needs to repair itself and if 3 million become unemployed , so what , if 100,000+ people lose their homes so what?
if 10s of tohusands of manual workers and ordinary folk lose their entire savings so what?

The banks must repair their balance sheets , the city must be seen to recover.
In the meantime the spivs that caused this are only losing out on larger bonuses their houses are safe as arer their jobs, their homes are in no danger of repossession .
The aforementioned is for us the smelly unwashed.

london is a cesspit ,Westminster bends to its every whim like a harlot.
we need to rid ourselves of this once and for all,
independence now.

45

The Saltire,

20/07/2009 17:30:44
48

What is the relevance in continually posting references to discredited sources? are you going to tell us that the UK government is a credible source when it comes to using anything they have produced as factual data with regards to political argument?
My point is my posting an irrelvant data table has as much credibilty as you posting any data derived from the UK government with regards to UK political policy.

How can anybody have a problem with the beano the Sun and the Razzle and then seek out and read government documents and tables as a reference and as a basis for a point of view? What a troll.
46

Tartan Viking,

20/07/2009 18:10:31
#53. Roofass lost being a credible poster quite some time ago. He is a joke now. All that information at his fingertips in the Scotsman offices as well.
47

lulach mac gille coemgain,

20/07/2009 19:35:02
Hey! Part frae England and we could start exportin our water, our food, our drink, our fresh air, oor oil, oor energy generating capability, oor talents - cripes we’d be the richest nation in the European Isles !
48

Sgian Achlais,

20/07/2009 20:57:57
If you run a business I have recently found the HSBC to be considerably more inclined to lend to solid business ventures when the RBS, HBOS, Clydesdale and Lloyds have turned down the same plans or imposed such ridiculous terms and rates that it would be pointless accepting the deal.

The London government have really shown their incompetence with the bank bail out. The banks have just swallowed up the money to pay off international debts. Raised margins and fee's to eight times pre 2007 levels and bled the already suffering consumer even more.

Letters should be going to the banks similar to those business clients receive about overdrafts. "We have reviewed your credit facility and wish you now to repay it"

No warning, no explanation just a computer generated letter from a soulless organisation who got fat on our enterprise and then squandered it with international grandstanding and stupidity.

49

Phil C,

20/07/2009 21:40:37
#58 So right. And as I said earlier, it's time our spineless government got tough on these crooked banks, or p*ss off and let someone else do it. And it's time for a national Scottish bank for the people.

In the meantime, I'm going to speak to HSBC tomorrow, thanks.
50

Armstrong Cowan Again,

Germany 21/07/2009 14:04:30
# 1

Dear Darien, despite the fact I think your post is a set -up to tease those who don't know the significance of the Darien project in regard to our Union with England, I still want to underline that putting down England or the UK is not an intelligent way to support eventual Scottish Independence. You are in any case badly informed about Britain's export industries. I bet you do not have a clue what half the companies in the footsie index or could name ten world leading private companies including British ones.
Be more constructive please.

 

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