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Comment: Pantomime fascist falls at first hurdle as Greer shines on night

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Published Date: 23 October 2009
CHARMING, witty, disarming , amusing: there's no doubt who stole the show … Bonnie Greer. But what was that ghastly reptile doing on the panel? That was Nick Griffin, who has put the mainstream parties in a panic and plunged the BBC into a state of siege.
He came over not as a would-be führer but a pantomime fascist, a joker who wouldn't make it on a pub quiz team let alone BBC1 Question Time, but for a set of obnoxious views and a reputation vastly greater than he deserves. So confused were the b
acktrackings, flimsy denials, absurd untruths and patent bluster, it was hard to tell which end of the pantomime horse was speaking, though most of it sounded well to the rear.

Griffin fell at the first hurdle, in a toe-curling attempt to present a Holocaust Denier denial. "I was not convicted of it," he said, smirking at David Dimbleby. He grinned and smirked a lot, in between strange reptilian darts of the tongue around the mouth.

Second shaft: why had he expressed admiration for Hitler and the Nazi Party? "I can't explain", he retorted, "why I said these things." After weeks in which anticipation of his appearance had stirred up so much controversy, was that the best he could come up with?

Even worse was his explanation of how he had come to change his views on the Holocaust, a weird excuse to do with wartime radio intercepts. The audience groaned. Had he actually changed his views, or was this just BNP dissemblage to appear respectable?

Arguably his most disturbing trait was not how Oswald Mosley-like he was in appearance, but how ordinary – but for the fact his answers were from some other planet.

If he is, as he claims, the most loathed man in Britain, it doesn't say much about him, or all that wasted loathing. That didn't make it a hands-down victory for Jack Straw and Chris Huhne. Both stumbled and dissembled on the most acute question of the evening: whether it was the failure of the government's immigration policy, not Griffin's racialistic blethers that accounted for the rise in votes for the BNP.

The more they sought to explain and excuse the chaos that is Britain's border controls, the worse it got for them. Clearly, the BNP leader was not the only one with previous dodgy positions to escape from. Easy winner by far was Greer. She slapped Griffin down with consummate ease, dismissing his fantastical account of the origins of "indigenous" British and the BNP's website account with: "Your history is a joke!" The audience erupted.

Several audience interventions landed well-aimed punches and Sayeeda Warsi, shadow minister for communities, was disciplined and ice-cool in her scorn. Dimbleby, chairman-cum- panellist, struggled to keep the panellists in order. He pleaded at the audience towards the end: "I don't want the whole programme to be dominated by Nick Griffin." What on earth did he expect?

Soon it was all over and Dimbleby was able to assure millions of agitated viewers that Question Time would revert to sound, honest, mainstream politicians next week … with Jacqui Smith.

Oh, the relief.



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1

hoblar,

23/10/2009 01:06:16
The media helped make the puppet like Griffen into something, the bbc did well in allowing him the freedom of speech to look daft as anything, particularly hilarious was the mickey mouse history lesson about how christians have been on "british' soil for millions of years.

What an utter clown.

People should be praising the bbc, even if they only wanted the viewing figures that the hype will have ensured, because this guy Griffen told more fairy tales than hans Christian Anderson.
2

The Former Mr. Angry,

Perth 23/10/2009 01:27:35
If that was a tour de force on the part of Greer I'd hate to witness some of her worse performances - actually hang on I have seen her on QT before and was not overly impressed by her ability to inform or stick to the subject.

Griffin did not come out well, but Straw positively looked banjaxed when a gentleman of different ethnicity accused him in a cogent and concise way of encouraging the BNP through his failed immigration policies. Talk about rabbit in headlights as his jaw hung lower than a Gordon Brown mid-sentence pause.

The debate was poorly controlled by Dimbleby and at times got positively abusive. Not that some of Griffin's comments didn't deserve it, it's just that we expect a higher standard of debate than that rabble and I would include the audience who looked as if they had been hand-picked to conform to the left wing standard expected of the BBC.
3

hoblar,

23/10/2009 01:34:12
She (Greer) didn't need to talk politics to show up griffen as a clown.

I watched it and understood that she was far more confident of her position and culture as a common human being than straw or indeed the other British politicians who got clapped by the rather robot-like audience for the first time in years because they had a cartoon baddie like Griffen to deride.

if Question time had been about something relevant to politics in these isles, the libdem and labour efforts would have been laughed at for being a load of rubbish, so the bbc propped up the dire British politicians, and that will last for, oh, at least one week.

Until next thursday.
4

,

23/10/2009 02:57:45
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5

redcliffe62,

23/10/2009 05:06:54
the attacks in the media on the snp were actually quite similar to those on the bnp.
both were hated as they were seen as extreme, and athreat to the status quo.
both panders to the wishes of the people rather than big business.
both were unelectable or perceived to be.
both gained seats which meant demonisation on its own was not satisfactory.
both had a hostile broadcaster manipulate questions.

on the positive side, both got their message across to the extent that the elitist media had to begin to ask some more awkward questions and treat their viewpoint as valid, even if in a condescending way.
both picked up voters who felt te othe roptions did not solve the problems that were now endemic.

the snp are still given a hard time, clearly not on a par with tonight's lynching. where for the first time in 30 years the format to discuss the events of the day was changed and preplanned questions aimed solely on race were aimed at a panel chosen solely on race.

i remember the snp having a hard time in a question time audience when labour appartchniks made up all the seats. tonight this was even worse, there were three white working class men in the audience, hardly representative of england but very representative of the bbc.

negativity works, so the snp can expect more slanted coverage, just not so biased as that which was shown to nicholas griffin, an elected representative and mep.

i thought warsi was good, but not greer. warsi told the others to get their heads out of their backsides and accept that things were broken and needed to be fixed.
straw clearly has lost the plot. did not think anything was wrong and fudged like a typical pollie. huhne was a typical squib dem with nothing to offer.

too much talk about ice ages and churchill's mohawk family from greer. she needed to stick to the facts. i would rather clarkson had been on. or ian hislop. someone with a bit of humour.

6

,

23/10/2009 08:07:39
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7

FLUB,

a rocky outcrop in eastern central Scotland 23/10/2009 09:31:06
I wasn't terribly impressed by Nick Griffin last night either; I didn't expect much, and he didn't distinguish himself from any of the UK's mainstream politicians.

Jack Straw was clearly out of his depth, he is obviously someone who has been carried all his life, and couldn't even handle a straightforward task like being a panel member on a QT which has been cleverly described elsewhere as a 'BNP Special'.

As for Bonnie Greer - what was the point of her? At best she was a bit of decorative fluff. She has lived here for years but still seems to know or care little of British culture despite her position as director of the British Museum.

Some years ago, she wrote an article about Shakespeare (one of my favourites) in a Sunday newspaper suppelement. It was about his contribution to the language, and she was quoting phrases from his plays that have become parts of speech, like 'Murder most foul' and so on. She also in the article attributed the phrase 'The best laid plans of mice and men' to Shakespeare! I wrote a letter to the paper pointing this error out to them, but it was never published.

Jimmy at #4 - your obsession with Rangers FC, fitting them into almost every piece you spatter on the keyboard, as well as irrelevant, is becoming boring. Stop it.

8

hoblar,

23/10/2009 10:10:29
Number 4 here is correct.

the spectacle of watching that smug QC pretend that Lockerbie was the best conviction in the world, akin to the convictions at the Nuremberg trials was pathetic, and the bbc host backed up this position even though their obligatory 'film' where they explain their mickey mouse subject of the day before getting an 'expert' showed people like JIm Squire, so obviously aware that the truth on Lockerbie is far from being known for the victim's families.

The smug qc was slagged off last night by the Advocate John Scott who when asked if he believed in Griffen being given airtime said that he did, but it was akin to watching the QC "talking utter nonsense about Lockerbie on your newsnight programme a few nights ago".

Brilliant stuff and very true.
9

hoblar,

23/10/2009 10:15:47
It really was a refreshing change to see someone actually use their slot on newsnight to mention how bad newsnight is when it comes to bias.

Griffen was hoisted by his own union jack and lack of morals and political abilities, rather like the labour party and the tories when the SNP, (whom they fear) get a mention.

The Scottish Government couldn't be accused of being anti Muslim, as Mickey mouse as the clown Griffen and his prejudiced politics were seen to be, Jack Straw had no answer whatsoever when Griffen said: "I might be seen as being anti Muslim, but I haven't laid a finger on one let alone killed one, unlike Jack Straw who has helped sanction the death of 800,000 Muslims in Iraq".

Something like that, the one point that Griffen made, but then, anybody could have made that point because from a moral perspective it is undoubtedly true.

10

,

23/10/2009 10:44:11
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11

,

23/10/2009 12:22:49
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12

Duncan in Edinburgh,

23/10/2009 13:24:07
#11 Where do you get this rubbish from? No-one is denying white people their democratic rights, nor housing nor employment nor benefits. You're talking utter garbage, and it's based on nothing more than blind prejudice.
13

Steve Scotland,

23/10/2009 13:36:40
That wasnt Question Time that was a lesson in everything thats bad about this country. 204 bullies against one guy. Picked audience eh?????

Lets see Nick Griffin aginst Jack Straw one to one, I would LOVE to see that!

14

Allan(handofgod137),

23/10/2009 13:49:46
#13, Even better, lets get the biased broadcasting corporation to redress the balance by repeating the program with the same panel, but this time allowing the bnp to pick the audience.
15

number withheld,

edinburgh 23/10/2009 14:06:15
#11 thats nonsense.
16

,

23/10/2009 14:10:23
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17

yockel,

23/10/2009 14:45:09
Good day to bury bad news what with you lot getting in a spin about an irrelevance. Was the timing planned?
18

hoblar,

23/10/2009 14:47:41
"That wasnt Question Time that was a lesson in everything thats bad about this country. 204 bullies against one guy. Picked audience eh?????

Lets see Nick Griffin aginst Jack Straw one to one, I would LOVE to see that!"

Why would that happen you clown?

Griffen was picked on and a pure target but he was also a total undeniable clown from any political perspective.
19

,

23/10/2009 15:33:37
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20

sam the god,

23/10/2009 15:42:11
ha ha ha Jack I am stuffed full of Straw he must have been an embaresment to maggie broon
21

sam the god,

23/10/2009 15:44:46
I lloved the crack about Straw's father being in prison because he wouldn't fight for his country during the war - but yet Jack Straw is part of the establishment that send our troop to war
22

hoblar,

23/10/2009 15:50:47
I loved the crack about the kkk being soft and cuddly.
23

,

23/10/2009 16:02:58
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24

Jo Public,

23/10/2009 18:55:34
"CHARMING, witty, disarming , amusing: there's no doubt who stole the show … Bonnie Greer"

Wrong. It was the Tory lady who stole the show. Sorry - forgotten her name - but she talked the most sense.

#21. Agreed. One law for the political class and one for us.
25

Jo Public,

23/10/2009 18:57:47
Oh it's Sayeeda Warsi...it says it in the article.

What a silly bunt.
26

Arminius,

Bei Uelzen 23/10/2009 19:02:31
This programme was the Pantomime and simply an unsubtle charade. The "vetted" audience were clearly hand picked by the BBC to be relied upon to attack Griffin verbally if not physically.
Griffin is no Oswald Mosley (Mosley was a seasoned politician and war veteran who would have wiped the floor with the panel as well as David Dimwit) but I would imagine that few politician of any political persuasion could have coped with the situation he found himself in.
I doubt this episode will have lost the BNP any votes as the representatives of the main parties are still deluding themselves that a vote for the BNP is simply a protest vote.
The National Front went from strength to strength in the 1970s (although it never achieved the electoral success of the BNP) but it virtually disappeared as a force after the 1979 general election. This was not because of the sterling efforts of the Anti-Nazi League and various other Marxist cover groups but rather because the Conservative Party promised to tackle the problem of immigration in its election manifesto.
The BNP will not become a spent force because of the violent actions of the great unwashed of Unite Against Fascism or the black farce that was Question Time but rather when the main parties effectively address the issues which the BNP exploit.
27

to the victor the spoils,

23/10/2009 19:43:33
#26 - well said.

I am no fan of griffin but the disgusting halfwhits attacking cops outside the bbc are if anything slightly worse. Horrible little no-marks.

If people were honest then i think you would find most adult men at least would agree with griffin that they find the sight of 2 grown men kissing in public slightly creepy. Not being homophobic although no doubt the scotsman with it's relentless leftie nonsense will take it that way and remove this post. I am not, repeat not, saying i am against homosexuals just that two men kissing isn't a great sight. Neither is 2 ladies unless they happen to be knockout lipstick lesbians doing stuff together on the interweb.....
28

The Invigilator,

23/10/2009 21:11:25
#27. Wat a larf.
29

hoblar,

23/10/2009 22:30:15
"This programme was the Pantomime and simply an unsubtle charade. The "vetted" audience were clearly hand picked by the BBC to be relied upon to attack Griffin verbally if not physically."

Griffin was hoisted by his own union flag and by his inability to have any political ideas that didn't merely rely on baiting and blame and that is the problem, the bnp are no use.

30

Brianwci,

24/10/2009 01:38:00
"Pantomime fascist falls at first hurdle"

Yes....and NO.

Yes for the politically sophisticated for whom QT is normal TV fare but NO to many of the extra 4/5 million who watched QT because Griffen was on.

Most of them only saw a man being attacked on all sides. A man laughing and even clapping the opposition, a 'reasonable' man.

From them comes the 22%, that's TWENTY TWO per cent, who would seriously consider voting for the BNP.

Did Griffen benefit from his 'mauling'? Most certainly, though thankfully most of those will be furth of Scotland.
31

Brianwci,

24/10/2009 01:39:28
The 22% is from a poll taken yesterday, Friday Oct 22nd.
32

Arminius,

Bei Uelzen 24/10/2009 05:29:06
#29 hoblar - "Griffin was hoisted by his own union flag" - Rather meaningless when you consider that all the panelists were Unionists.
Griffin was barely permitted to speak without interuption and it was obvious to most genuinely fair-minded people that this programme was a set up (possibly at the behest of the government). The BNP exploits the genuine concerns of large parts of the population so the way to defeat them is not to try and "ambush" their leader on TV and call in rent-a-mob, but to deal with those issues head on.
33

langtonian,

uphall 24/10/2009 08:54:49
Just a passing comment;one could almost suspect that Nick Griffiths and Alex Salmond were related;Griffiths could easiy have been seen to be Alex's big brother;only in facial resmblance of course.

While not a supporter of the SNP First Minister's manifesto, he is of course a clever politician,truly Machiavellian(but with principles)and totaly at the other end in any spectrum of political comparison from the odiouse Nick Griffin.

As to the effect of the programme ;when one allows a bearer of low life contagiouse politics as represented by BNP agenda everyone is at risk of catching a purler of some sort;that applies to,TV audience,BBC ethics,the in house audience,the panel and David Dimbleby.Let it be the case that Griffiths returns to his messianic, ill conceived, tormented no-brainer disgusting homophobic sink of utter human depravity.
34

Isonomia,

Lenzie 24/10/2009 11:09:09
#3, hoblar. Bonnie Greer certainly did come out of this as the sole example of Britishness on the panel. Obviously I might be biased because I really felt sorry for her having to be next to Nick. But I then realised that she would have been asked if this was OK, and must certainly have agreed at least tacitly to be next to him.

The politicians just hid behind Dimbleby, spouting their prepared speaches that no doubt every researcher in their party had been working on night and day. But they were delivered with the conviction and delivery of a drunk protestant playing the pope.

Bonnie greer treated Nick Griffen with the normal hands-off respect that we all should expect of each other and attacked what he said and not who he was again something I doubt many of his supporter would show Bonnie.

Although, I'm still miffed that the "British" museum is really an English museum and I can't see why the Lewis Chessmen shouldn't return to Lewis or e.g. Glasgow Hunterian?
35

Isonomia,

Lenzie 24/10/2009 11:25:05
#30 Brianwci.

If I had to vote for someone I respected I'd have a very short list (and I don't agree their main policies).

Think of it this way. For a thousand years the todying rich 10% of England and Scotland who own 80-90% of the land have been kicking the boot into other 90% of us who have to live on the squalid bits of land they left.

Now the Tories have stuffed their cabinet with these "racist" (in a Norman-everyone else sense) and we are expected to vote for them in order to get rid of the lying cheating labour party who took us to an illegal war which killed 100,000s of Iraqis.

And then they have the gall to tell us that Nick Griffen is a nasty racist fascist (implying he supports killing 100,000s of ethnically different people like in Iraq) and all he is doing is representing the views of a lot of ordinary people in this country who have been abadonned by the political elite.

Is non-violent racism worse than the mass murder of 100,000 Iraqis or 1000 years of class built on genetic inheritance from the master (norman) race?
36

Al Pacino,

24/10/2009 12:26:08
Couldn't disagree more with the article. Greer was rude, shallow and dismissive. They were all pretty objectionable really. (could Jack Straw sound and look any more feeble and false if he tried?) Anyway, good luck to Dimbleby in the Smug World Cup.
37

hoblar,

24/10/2009 17:02:29
Isonomia: "Bonnie greer treated Nick Griffen with the normal hands-off respect that we all should expect of each other and attacked what he said and not who he was again something I doubt many of his supporter would show Bonnie."

Aye, she didn't need to be a politician to tackle griffen as some bnp plants and other idiots have said because.....Griffen isn't a politician either!

Anybody could see that his rhetoric and his statements made him look ridiculous, any proper politician would be sacked after one of these statements, and he looked even more inept saying he had since "changed my position".

She laughed at his stupidity and the quotes that were attributed to griffen (and admitted to) such as that nice cuddly version of the KKK he mentioned, and laughing at this type of extreme clown politics is spot on.

However, this should never detract from laughing at the clown politics of the other british nationalists like Straw and that liberal guy, both of whom earned a clap for stating the bleedin' obvious-easy pickings.


38

nostress,

grangemouth 24/10/2009 20:33:07
Spot on Al @ # 36 - I read this article with incredulity also. To me Greer came across as arrogant, while Dumbleby was his usual smug snobbish self. Huhn was an irrelevance, while Straw just irritated with his hypocritical nonsense - seems it's not racist to kill hundreds of thousands of innocent Arabs in a contrived invasion in Jack's world - contemptible man that he is! The Tory baroness Warsi came across as sharp, but someone very much on the make. As for Griffin, yes his politics are odious, but the lynch mob approach merely played into his hands, where he could play the poor misunderstood and bullied little Englander to great effect. Another own goal from the establishment.

39

truthsleuth,

25/10/2009 00:24:53
#38 nostress

Greer was arrogant but then she and otherts liker her throw their inuendo and insults about the British (or is it whites) with gay abandon. She and others likev herknow that they can hide behind the laws of this nation(britain) that in effect enable them to be racist and get away with it.

It appals me that the so called leaders of this nation and the media never speak out against these ungrateful immigrants. But then you have to remember that a great number of MPs depend upon the vote of immigrants to be re-elected.

This is one of the failings of democracy as is practised in the UK.

A bag of a fag packet calculation shows that

Approx 60% of the electorate vote in a general election. Numbers are even lower in local elections.
This means only 31% of the vote provides a majority

The enormous inflow of immigrants to specific areas of our towns and cities means that many of these areas now have the capability to produce a majority on their vote alone. And remember in the UK almost anyone over the age of 18 can vote.

The number of seats that are now in this situation will increase rapidly in the next few years so in many areas we will be in the situation where the indigenous population will be represented by MPs with a dubious claim to the position they occupy.
40

Lys Alf,

Scotland 25/10/2009 11:52:02
All the censored posts here indicate an anti-white bias is being persued.

I found the following poem on another news site, BT Yahoo that does not censor material that expresses concerns of the oppressed and dispossesed white population it also reminds us of what could happen when a people are denied legitimate political expression:

LONG LIVE THAT ENGLAND... AN ANTHEM:

LONG LIVE THAT ENGLAND, LAND OF OUR FATHERS';
WE SHALL REFORTIFY; THIS IS OUR VOW.
LONG LIVE THAT ENGLAND, BORN OUT OF KINDRED BLOOD;
WE SHALL ARISE AGAIN; THIS IS OUR VOW...

THE MIGHTY HEART THAT BEATS AS ONE,
IN EV'RY TRUE-BORN ENGLISHMAN,
SHALL BEAT JUST LIKE A MIGHTY DRUM;
A CALL TO ARMS FOR ENGLAND.

LONG LIVE THAT ENGLAND, SWEET LAND OF LIBERTY;
LET NOT THE TRAITORS'REIGN; THIS IS OUR VOW.
LONG LIVE THAT ENGLAND; UNITE NEATH HER BANNER;
WE SHALL BE FREE ONCE MORE; THIS IS OUR VOW...

THE MIGHTY HEART THAT BEATS AS ONE,
IN EV'RY TRUE-BORN ENGLISHMAN,
SHALL BEAT JUST LIKE A MIGHTY DRUM;
A CALL TO ARMS FOR ENGLAND.

LONG LIVE THAT ENGLAND; RISE UP YE MULTITUDE;
IN STRENGTH WE'LL FIGHT THE FOE; THIS IS OUR VOW.
LONG LIVE THAT ENGLAND; DRIVE BACK THE RISING TIDE;
STAND FIRM AND WE SHALL WIN; THIS IS OUR VOW...

THE MIGHTY HEART THAT BEATS AS ONE,
IN EV'RY TRUE-BORN ENGLISHMAN,
SHALL BEAT JUST LIKE A MIGHTY DRUM;
A CALL TO ARMS FOR ENGLAND.
A CALL TO ARMS FOR ENGLAND.
A CALL TO ARMS FOR ENGLAND.

"CRY 'GOD FOR HARRY ENGLAND AND SAINT GEORGE."


The censorship on this article is a warning to the remnants of the white population of these Islands.
41

Lys Alf,

Scotland 25/10/2009 12:03:37
You should read Greer's statement to the Daily Mail, in it she exposes her anti-white race hate by telling how she had difficulty restraining herself from slapping Griffen.

Now we see why operation Trident exists, no other race group in Britain has ever needed a standing police task force to monitor and control violent acts perpertrated by that group against other members of their own race.

Operation Trident exists exclusively for the protection of the Black community against violence from other blacks many of whom are third generation british born.

 

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