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Iran threatens to set Israel ablaze as fears grow of US-backed war



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Published Date: 09 July 2008
IRAN has issued a strident warning that it would "set on fire" Israel and target the US navy in the Persian Gulf as its first response to any American attack over its nuclear programme.
Rising tension in the area where Iran and the United States are both carrying out military exercises have contributed to driving oil prices to record highs.

Bizarrely, the sabre-rattling and psychological warfare conducted by both sides comes against the backdrop of an ongoing diplomatic initiative to resolve the Iranian nuclear crisis.

Iran on Friday gave a non-committal response to a three-week-old international offer of incentives if Tehran curbs its nuclear programme. The long-awaited reply pointedly refused to address the key demand: that Tehran suspends uranium enrichment.

But Javier Solana, the EU's foreign policy chief, who delivered the offer, was sufficiently encouraged by a professed Iranian desire for further negotiations to agree to meet later this month with Iran's top nuclear negotiator, Saeed Jalili.

Iran's latest warning of how it would retaliate carried more weight than usual because it was delivered by an aide to the supreme leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei.

"The first US shot on Iran would set the United States' vital interests in the world on fire," said Ali Shirazi, a mid-ranking cleric who is Khamenei's representative to the naval forces of Iran's elite Revolutionary Guards. "Tel Aviv and the US fleet in the Persian Gulf would be targets that would be set on fire in Iran's crushing response," he said.

Mr Shirazi spoke as the Revolutionary Guards launched a new round of war games – dubbed Great Prophet III – to "improve combat capability". The US on Monday launched "Exercise Stake Net" in the Persian Gulf aimed at "ensuring a lawful maritime order".

Washington has vowed that Iran will never be allowed to block the Strait of Hormuz, the narrow entrance to the Gulf through which 40 per cent of the world's oil exports flow. Iran, in its strongest declaration yet that it would use oil as a weapon, threatened at the weekend to block the strait if attacked, and said it would rain "fatal blows" against enemy vessels with "the most advanced missiles".

Choking off the strait would not be without cost to Iran itself. Iranian oil exports, vital to its economy, pass through the waterway which Tehran, because it lacks refining capacity, also relies on for importing 40 per cent of its petroleum and kerosene imports. Closing the strait could trigger an energy crisis in Iran.

Iran has already dismissed the US or Israel military posturing as mere "psychological warfare".

Tehran's latest military rhetoric appears designed to heighten American concerns that an attack on Iran – which George Bush, the US president, refuses to rule out – could be disastrous. Admiral Mike Mullen, chairman of the US Joint Chiefs of Staff, warned last week that with fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan, opening a "third front" against Iran would be "extremely stressful" and "very challenging" for US forces, "with consequences that would be difficult to predict".

But there is growing speculation that Israel could go it alone in attacking Iran's nuclear facilities. Israel recently launched large-scale military exercises that appeared to be a practice run in striking at Iran. Tehran has already made clear that any Israeli attack using US-made warplanes in US-controlled airspace would be considered as an act of war by Washington.

Yesterday's bellicose talk from Tehran appears to have been intended to intensify the debate in Washington about the wisdom of giving Israel a green light to attack Iran.

Washington finds mixed messages from Tehran intriguing

HIGHLIGHTING a power struggle in Iran over finding a way forward, Tehran has sent mixed signals to the incentives package offered by the US, Britain, Russia, China, France and Germany.

Iran's hardline president, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, has struck a typically defiant stance, insisting Tehran would never suspend uranium enrichment.

Yesterday, at a conference of Muslim nations in Malaysia, he said he did not see the possibility of a war with the US or Israel, dismissing military threats by the two countries as a "funny joke".

But other influential hardliners have spoken optimistically that a compromise can be found.

Washington, which usually dismisses conflicting messages from Iran as playing for time, now appears more intrigued than suspicious.

It seems that from "the varying public responses from various parts of the Iranian government that there is clearly a debate… on how to respond," Sean McCormack, the US State Department spokesman, said.

Some Iranian analysts believe Tehran is sincere in wanting to negotiate to eliminate any risk of an Israeli or US attack for the rest of the hostile Bush administration. Iran's sights are set on better relations with Washington if Barack Obama wins the White House.

Iran's foreign minister, Manouchehr Mottaki, hinted at this strategy in a recent CNN interview. "We hear new voices in America… and we think that the rational thinkers in America can, based on these new approaches, seek reality as it is. We are ready to help them in this endeavour."

Professor Gary Sick, an Iran expert at Columbia University in New York, told The Scotsman: "If there really is a power struggle going on in Iran, you should look at the positive signals which are coming from the people who really want change over the objections of the president."

The full article contains 905 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 08 July 2008 10:01 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Iran
 
1

Scullion,

Canada 09/07/2008 01:27:22
Each side has to posture if only to appease the hardliners in their repective camps. Let the talks continue and we may well see a breakthrough as has happened in North Korea.
2

,

09/07/2008 02:43:44
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
3

,

09/07/2008 03:08:50
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
4

Rosie's Opinion,

USA 09/07/2008 03:24:05
3 Dukov Norfolk, FH Troll

Dukov wrote "May your house be destroyed by the next natural disaster"

You are one sick troll.
5

bring them on,

09/07/2008 03:24:55
I have a friend from Iran
6

chatnic,

Australia 09/07/2008 03:47:33
Rosie's Opinion,
USA 09/07/2008 03:24:05

//Dukov wrote "May your house be destroyed by the next natural disaster"//

"You are one sick troll."

Meanwhile ... the Epileptic Prophet Mohammad 09/07/2008 02:43:44

" When Iranian citizens are feeling the pain of war they will turn against their government.....I vote for bombing Iran."

Wants to kill citizens...
7

W Smith,

Middle East 09/07/2008 03:56:52
"the hostile Bush administration"

Interesting.

This journalist doesn't remember Hillary Clinton's threat made just weeks ago.

She's a left wing Democrat - so thats okay then?

BTW
Women in Iran get stoned to death and hanged from mobile cranes in public to initmidate other females who dare to 'step out of line'.

I supoose thats Bush's fault, Israels fault, the neocons fault, Mossads fault, CIA's fualt, blah blah blah

Lets blame every one except the mullahs then eh?
8

Guga II,

Rockall 09/07/2008 04:16:38
#7. Why bring up irrelevancies? If the septics or their paid lackeys, the Israelis, attack Iran, they are entitled to retaliate. Or are you suggesting that they should just sit quietly while the bully boy septics bomb their country?
9

chatnic,

Australia 09/07/2008 04:33:02
W Smith,
Middle East 09/07/2008 03:56:52

//"the hostile Bush administration"//

"Interesting"

Yes, especially the bit about starting an un-called for war in Iraq, based on lies and deceit.

"This journalist doesn't remember Hillary Clinton's threat made just weeks ago"

She started a war?

"BTW Women in Iran get stoned to death and hanged from mobile cranes in public to initmidate other females who dare to 'step out of line'....I supoose thats Bush's fault, Israels fault, the neocons fault, Mossads fault, CIA's fualt, blah blah blah....Lets blame every one except the mullahs then eh?""

Blah blah blah indeed, no-one has blamed them for your un-sourced allegations. Nor is anyone defending 'the mullahs'... Got any more straw, Pajero?

BTW How about Saudi Arabia, they're just as repressive....
10

Auntie Christ,

axis of evil 09/07/2008 05:31:51
chatnic
Do you believe that Australia can absorb a large influx of Muslims and have them comply with the laws of your land? I’m not talking about the jihadists but those that represent the vast majority of Muslims who do not engage in violence. In the US I’ve know Christians, Catholics, and Protestants all my life. Some people have described a group of Catholics as cafeteria Catholics; they pick and choose which parts of their religion they want to obey. Most of the Christians I know talk the talk but they don’t walk the walk, not so the Muslims I know, they take their religion much more seriously and from what my limited understanding of it is there are many aspects that are just not compatible with western culture, or any other come to think of it. They seem very unwilling to compromise the world view their religion teaches them, so how do you reconcile these disparate points of view? Should countries like the US, Australia, Germany, Britain and France engage in a two tiered system of government to accommodate Muslims? At this point that seems the only way to achieve peaceful coexistence.
11

chatnic,

Australia 09/07/2008 05:46:39
Auntie Christ,
axis of evil 09/07/2008 05:31:51

"Do you believe that Australia can absorb a large influx of Muslims and have them comply with the laws of your land?"

We have. It has only been in the last few years that issues have arisen, on the coat tails (tales) of escalated Western interference in the M East.

" I’m not talking about the jihadists but those that represent the vast majority of Muslims who do not engage in violence."

We have. Muslims were instrumental in the opening up of white Australia.

" In the US I’ve know Christians, Catholics, and Protestants all my life"

No Muslims???

" Some people have described a group of Catholics as cafeteria Catholics; they pick and choose which parts of their religion they want to obey."

Same with most religions and followers.

" Most of the Christians I know talk the talk but they don’t walk the walk, not so the Muslims I know, they take their religion much more seriously and from what my limited understanding of it is there are many aspects that are just not compatible with western culture, or any other come to think of it."

Then you know very little of Muslim history in countries around the world, including most likely, as you seem never to have known any Muslims, your own.

"They seem very unwilling to compromise the world view their religion teaches them, so how do you reconcile these disparate points of view?"

Er what disparate P'sOV?

"Should countries like the US, Australia, Germany, Britain and France engage in a two tiered system of government to accommodate Muslims?"

Strange, Beth Din are rabbinical courts in operation in the UK for over a hundred years. Do you have a problem with our Jewish law being written into the program?

"At this point that seems the only way to achieve peaceful coexistence"

And why is it a problem to expand a society's laws to accommodate the harmless religious laws, especially when it only relates to private matters?
12

chatnic,

Australia 09/07/2008 05:49:40
Auntie Christ,
axis of evil 09/07/2008 05:31:51


My error on you not knowing any Muslims. Or was that inclusion just an afterthought?
13

Auntie Christ,

axis of evil 09/07/2008 06:01:27
chatnic
I think you may have overlooked the line "not so the Muslims I know" which were predominantly “black” Muslims – as they preferred to be described. In recent decades I’ve come to know Muslims from all over the world including Egypt, Pakistan and some of the Arab countries. You seem well informed about Islam and I wonder if you have knowledge of the “Black” Muslims here in the US? It always seemed to me there was some friction between the Muslims I knew from other countries and the “Black” Muslims I worked with, any insights? In any event you've told me more than you could know and I thank you for it. Honesty is always best!
14

yockel,

09/07/2008 06:09:51
#2 - the Mullahs incorrigible and vain ambitions to influence the mid east - When did George become a Mullah?
As for the Iranians turning against their government, that would be like the Iraqis turning against the US as soon as they realised they were a bunch of plundering freeloaders not liberators.
15

Auntie Christ,

axis of evil 09/07/2008 06:15:58
chatnic
Referring back to #11 it would seem then the two tiered system, and the example you gave: “Beth Din are rabbinical courts in operation in the UK for over a hundred years.” would be, as you point out, already an accepted part of English law and what you would advocate for other countries who are receiving Muslim immigrants into their countries - I know that Canada, my neighbor to the north is considering incorporating Sharia law into their legal system as we write.
16

chatnic,

09/07/2008 06:29:07
Auntie Christ,
axis of evil 09/07/2008 06:01:27

"I think you may have overlooked the line "not so the Muslims I know""

See 12.

"You seem well informed about Islam.."

Yes...

" and I wonder if you have knowledge of the “Black” Muslims here in the US? "

Yes...

"It always seemed to me there was some friction between the Muslims I knew from other countries and the “Black” Muslims I worked with, any insights?"

In all likelihood the same as friction between any number of other groups.

"In any event you've told me more than you could know.."

I've only told you what I've told you and I know what I've told you.

Auntie Christ,
axis of evil 09/07/2008 06:15:58

"Referring back to #11 it would seem then the two tiered system, and the example you gave: “Beth Din are rabbinical courts in operation in the UK for over a hundred years.” would be, as you point out, already an accepted part of English law and what you would advocate for other countries who are receiving Muslim immigrants into their countries - I know that Canada, my neighbor to the north is considering incorporating Sharia law into their legal system as we write"

lthough the fear, war and hate mongers would like people to see it otherwise, it's actually not a big deal.
17

Auntie Christ,

axis of evil 09/07/2008 06:53:23
chatnic
I've not posted on this forum in over a year so forgive me if you've already shared this information but it strikes me the only people I've met that have the depth of knowledge you posses regarding Islam are Muslims and your responses seem familiar in that the conversations I’ve had with Muslims here have a similar construct. I wonder, and I completely understand if you would prefer anonymity, if your knowledge is first hand? Would you happen to be Muslim yourself? If not are you and educator? The reason I ask is your comment: “Strange, Beth Din are rabbinical courts in operation in the UK for over a hundred years. Do you have a problem with our Jewish law being written into the program?” took me totally off guard; I would guess there are only a small percentage of people who are aware of that fact. It’s been an enlightening “chat” er chatnic thanks very much.
18

Auntie Christ,

axis of evil 09/07/2008 07:02:49
chatnic
Where's my manners you may ask? #17 should have ended with a :-) I correct myself.
19

Dukov Norfolk,

The Palace 09/07/2008 07:25:25
#4 Rosie's Opinion

"You are one sick troll".

....and you are someone who delights in the bombing and miseries of innocent human beings. Proof of this are your postings that support torture and the calamitous invasion of Iraq which has resulted in more than a million dead and another million seeking refuge in neighbouring countries.

I see you support the "Epilectic Prophet" who is itching to duplicate the situation in Iran.


20

Jay Kay,

09/07/2008 07:32:37
I vote that the american people bomb George Dubya straight out of office asap.
21

aljok.23,

the world 09/07/2008 07:43:54
I rattle my sabre at all who threaten my world
22

Auntie Christ,

axis of evil 09/07/2008 07:49:53
Jay Kay #20
It wouldn't change a thing! Will you be surprised if Obama is elected president and STAYS in Iraq? The biggest and most expensive Embassy in the history of the world is being built in Iraq by the US, do you think President Obama will be allowed to withdraw? Dream on.
23

Silence of the Yams,

09/07/2008 08:11:41
I'd be very surprised if Bush left office without eliminating the Mullah's illegal enrichment. Their rhetoric is as empty as their fake religion.
24

Louis Catorze,

09/07/2008 08:14:35
#11....yep., Beth Din does exist in our country, but the most important point to make that if disputes arise, or the judgement of the court is not acceptable to either party, it is then English(or Scottish) law that takes over.

So there is still not a two tier system in this country despite what you and others may think.
25

Iain's,

09/07/2008 08:34:31
America will do anything to get oil prices up to $200 a barrel.
26

tommy,

belfast uk 09/07/2008 09:14:36
There is no doubt that iran wants to exterminate Israel and so would all the other arab countries,but this is an islamic thing from the koran not a palestinian thing as the arabs would have you believe,in fact the most gullible amongst us think that it has something to do with that political arab football referred to as palestine
However
Israel as one of the most terrorised states in the world has the most experience of islamic obfuscation,she cannot afford to sit on her laurels in this matter,she should act decisively
It is sad that ignorance of islam still prevails despite its best efforts to show us otherwise
Leaflets are being handed out by some muslims that include the statement as follows
Quote ..."All the laws of Kufr need to be eradicated and replaced by the laws of Allah immediately. We are commanded to implement Islam in every aspect of our lives and carry it to the whole world via Jihad so that we may succeed in this life under the domain of Dar-ul-Islam and in the hereafter in Jannah-tul-Firdous Inshallah." Unquote
http://tinyurl.com/6r3h49

Now that's what I call integrating
not to mention the fact that
the Universal Declaration of Human Rights has been modified by the un human rights council to forbid the discussion of human rights violations committed under sharia law
a point of information
Quote..Muslims were instrumental in the opening up of white Australia..Unquote.... a misquote from the meathead sheikh.. Sheikh Taj Aldin al-Hilali who said on egyptian tv

that white Australians arrived in the country shackled as convicts.

"We (Muslims) came as free people. We bought our own tickets. We are entitled to Australia more than they are," he said.
27

chatnic,

Australia 09/07/2008 09:23:50
17
Auntie Christ,
axis of evil 09/07/2008 06:53:23

"I've not posted on this forum in over a year so forgive me if you've already shared this information "

This is the first day I've posted on this service.

"but it strikes me the only people I've met that have the depth of knowledge you posses regarding Islam are Muslims and your responses seem familiar in that the conversations I’ve had with Muslims here have a similar construct."

Education and an interest in religion/s even though I am a devout atheista.

" I wonder, and I completely understand if you would prefer anonymity.."

I'd prefer to be known, except where I have indulged in that fantasy, I've received threats to my person and slanderous statements which ended only on my pursuit of legal proceedings against the perpetrators.

"....if your knowledge is first hand?"

Through education, extensive travel in Muslim countries and thankfully, erudite and well informed parents.

" Would you happen to be Muslim yourself?"

No I wouldn't.

" If not are you and educator?"

At times.

" The reason I ask is your comment: “Strange, Beth Din are rabbinical courts in operation in the UK for over a hundred years. Do you have a problem with our Jewish law being written into the program?” took me totally off guard"

Why?

" I would guess there are only a small percentage of people who are aware of that fact."

It has been known for about a hunded years.

"It’s been an enlightening “chat” er chatnic thanks very much"

OK.
28

Houssine,

Nanterre 09/07/2008 09:36:22
I think the next chalenge for america is Iran.Today , whitout doubdt was the "gendarme of the world".She have a presence in Irak, Afghanistan,...and want to devlop a missiles systemes of defense in east europes but Moscou was opposed of that project.

Than , america have posed hemself as the leaders of the world, in space whit the conquet of planet mars....

We can remark his politic have many echecs ...they are not Palestinien stat at today, al quaeda and his leaders was alive, the war in Irak and Afghanistan was not ended and they are more and more attaks from the talibans against the coalition...

Al Maliki ,who are considered by many as a puppet in the hands of america, reclam today from america a calendar for whitdrawal american troops from Irak , what america don't want to speak...

For Iran they are an increase in provocation and it's possible the war will be happening fellow an incident between american army in the region and iranien army...

We can think a war against Iran will be disastrous for international economy .
And the issus of the war will be absolutly uncertain.

Today is difficult to known who will be next US president who can take this responsibility? Mac Cain ? Obama ?
Now america have 150,000 soldiers in Irak and 60,000 in Afghanistan.
And why america think Iran will be produce the nuclear weapons and than will be give it to "Hizb-Allah" ??
29

chatnic,

Australia 09/07/2008 10:00:31
26
tommy,
belfast uk 09/07/2008 09:14:36

"There is no doubt that iran wants to exterminate Israel .."

There's been no mention of 'Israel'. The Zionist regime. A regime is not a country.

"and so would all the other arab countries"

er that's 'A'rab countries..

"but this is an islamic thing.."

'I'slamic

"from the koran .."

'K'oran.

"...not a palestinian thing "

'P'alestinian..

"...as the arabs.."

'A'rabs..

"...would have you believe,in fact the most gullible amongst us think that it has something to do with that political arab football

'A'rab..

"... referred to as palestine"

'P'alestine...

"However Israel ..."

Weird, your shift key works when you type 'I'srael..

Say, you're not one of those ghastly posters who purposefully derides Arabs, Palestinians, Muslims by purposefully lowercasing their names are you?

"..as one of the most terrorised states in the world has the most experience of islamic.."

'I'slamic

"... obfuscation,she cannot afford to sit on her laurels in this matter,she should act decisively.."

Israel doesn't act decisively? Strange, Israel retaliates with overwhelming force, carries out extra-judicial killing, collective punishment, builds walls on Palestinian land and continues to build illegal settlements in the Occupied Territories.

"It is sad that ignorance of islam .."

'I'slam..

"..still prevails"

Yes, why do you perpetrate this ignorance?

".. despite its best efforts to show us otherwise"

Like your ignorant practice of lower casing Arab, Muslim, Islam, Palestine?

"Leaflets are being handed out by some muslims ..'

'M'uslims

"..that include the statement as follows
Quote ..."All the laws of Kufr need to be eradicated and replaced by the laws of Allah immediately. We are commanded to implement Islam in every aspect of our lives and carry it to the whole world via Jihad so that we may succeed in this life under the domain of Dar-ul-Islam and in the here
30

MisterN,

Scotland 09/07/2008 10:15:34
War in Iraq, war in Afganistan war starting between Afganistan and Pakistan and now these f*cking morons want to go into Iran and look at how many f*ckwits come on here with their support for it.
Can somebody tell me what part Iran Iraq and Afganistan played in the 9/11 attack?
Complete with the evidence of course.
Remember the 9/11 attack by Saudis? that is what all of this is supposed to be about now how many of you can tell me you still believe this?

26
"There is no doubt that iran wants to exterminate Israel"

Based on what evidence? The only threats Iran have made are to threaten to retaliate. Israel on the other hand is the one threatening to attack Iran but only because it has the US to back it up.
The pair of them are completley out of control and have no respect nor inclination to act within international law.

"Israel as one of the most terrorised states in the world"

Relative to who? Iraq? Iran? Afganistan? Gaza? the West bank?

Israel and the US have lost the plot completely we are now well on our way to a global war which may even eclipse WW2 and all you f*cks can post is lies and bullsh*t in support of it.

I suggest you start praying to whatever God you believe in before we all end up meeting him or her in person.
31

chatnic,

Australia 09/07/2008 10:16:42

Houssine,
Nanterre 09/07/2008 09:36:22

"america"

'A'merica! Like 'N'anterre in 'F'rance!

"I think the next chalenge for america is Iran."

American dependency on oil is the greatest challenge to the USA


"We can think a war against Iran will be disastrous for international economy.."

Most certainly.

"Today is difficult to known who will be next US president who can take this responsibility? Mac Cain ? Obama ?"

Neither, they will be subjected to the same pressures from their oil dependent economy, no matter who is elected. America's greatest fear is itself, citizen turning on citizen, because the machine runs out of fuel.

"And why america think Iran will be produce the nuclear weapons and than will be give it to "Hizb-Allah" ??"

The leaders know this is not true. It's pure propaganda for the gullible.

32

Big Jock McDoc,

Scotland 09/07/2008 10:18:03
#29

sO yOu think capitalisatiOns is relevent tO the tOpic?
33

,

09/07/2008 10:18:59
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
34

chatnic,

Australia 09/07/2008 10:22:10
26
tommy,
belfast uk 09/07/2008 09:14:36

Continued

"..that include the statement as follows
Quote ..."All the laws of Kufr need to be eradicated and replaced by the laws of Allah immediately. We are commanded to implement Islam in every aspect of our lives and carry it to the whole world via Jihad so that we may succeed in this life under the domain of Dar-ul-Islam and in the hereafter in Jannah-tul-Firdous Inshallah." Unquote

http://tinyurl.com/6r3h49

Jihad, in it's strictest sense, is a personal endeavor to adhere to and protect Islam, especially in the Islamic world, which of course is wherever Muslims find themselves.

http://usa.mediamonitors.net/headlines/strangers_muslims_living_outside_dar_ul_islam_rights_and_obligations

Dârul-Islâm, "Realm of Islam where Islamic norms and values are valid so that a Muslim can feel safe and at home even though he is not yet familiar with the language and culture;

Dârul-Harb, the "Realm of War" where a hostile attitude against Muslims is to be expected;

Dârus-Sulh, the "Realm of a Legal Order or Peace" where a public order is prevalent in which Muslims can find a safe place. Traditional models for these three cases would be Madina, Makkah and Abyssinia, respectively, during the early period of Islam.

Further to the article you linked...

http://www.thisisthesentinel.co.uk/displayNode.jsp?nodeId=158767&command=displayContent&sourceNode=158593&contentPK=21037265&folderPk=87654&pNodeId=158324

//"The police have copies of all our leaflets and they have never pointed out anything they object to.

"Hundreds of people have given us their support, but many now fear being targeted by the police and are keeping their heads down."

Abdul Mahmood, aged 18, of Kirby Street, Cobridge, visited the stall to show support to the group.

He said: "I often see them here and don't see they are doing anything wrong.

"Their stall is right under a CCTV camera, so they obviously have nothing to hide."

H
35

chatnic,

Australia 09/07/2008 10:23:18
26
tommy,
belfast uk 09/07/2008 09:14:36

Continued

"Heated views were exchanged when PC Tracy Adams, of Burslem police station, approached the stall - with some community members expressing anger at the raids.

PC Adams said: "It's a routine call and I collect samples of the leaflets.

"I hope to be able to maintain a good relationship between the Muslim community and police."

Many supporters of the group said they hoped the incident would not lead to the breakdown of relations between different communities.

But Imran Khan, a youth worker from Cobridge, said: "The whole community is behind them. They've done a lot to help get youngsters off the streets." //

"Now that's what I call integrating.."

Seems like it actually IS integrating...

"..not to mention the fact that
the Universal Declaration of Human Rights has been modified by the un human rights council to forbid the discussion of human rights violations committed under sharia law"

Source/s for this 'fact'...thx...

"Quote..Muslims were instrumental in the opening up of white Australia..Unquote...."

Quite..

"a misquote from the meathead sheikh.."

Nothing to do with him. It is a historical fact.

" Sheikh Taj Aldin al-Hilali who said on egyptian tv ..that white Australians arrived in the country shackled as convicts"

Quite.

"We (Muslims) came as free people. We bought our own tickets. We are entitled to Australia more than they are," he said."

Quite. They did. And caused no problems. In fact there have few incidences in Australia involving Muslims in Australia until the US led Coalitions ghastly little illegal war in Iraq.
36

bluehead,

edinburgh 09/07/2008 10:27:30
Is this the war-mongering Americans at it again?
let us hope that their will be no more kissing of the presidential posterior like the last time.
if the bampot politicians want wars let them fight it out between themselves.
37

chatnic,

Australia 09/07/2008 10:33:28
32
Big Jock McDoc,
Scotland 09/07/2008 10:18:03
#29

"sO yOu think capitalisatiOns is relevent tO the tOpic? "

Certainly, especially on an issue where bigots raise their ugly heads. Bang, bang, down they go, Jock.
38

Big Jock McDoc,

09/07/2008 10:44:29
#37

So by capitalisations you think a person is bigoted? By labelling them bigoted you try to invalid their arguments in other peoples eyes.
39

Jack fae Glasgow,

Govan 09/07/2008 11:03:50
Gets really boring listening to Iranian Islamic Rants after a while. Lets just save ourself some time and grief....NUKE THEM right now and start discussing something a little bit more productive.

We didn't have a problem nuking Hiroshima and Nagasaki to "end" the last world war, so lets not mess around with obliterating Iran and sending a clear message to the rest of the so called revolutionary jihadists wherever they are. We've tried showing you the hand of peace and thats not worked, now we'll show you what's in our other hand!
40

chatnic,

09/07/2008 11:10:13
38
Big Jock McDoc,
09/07/2008 10:44:29
#37

"So by capitalisations you think a person is bigoted?"

Folk who purposefully NOT uppercasing names, specifically of Arabs, Islam, Muslim, Palestine, and/or America for that matter, all the time, obviously have some intention behind doing it.


"By labelling them bigoted you try to invalid their arguments in other peoples eyes"

Nope. Just pointing out and chastising those who engage in the ghastly practice.. Afterall, Jock, who else but a foul little bigot would do such a thing?
41

MisterN,

Scotland 09/07/2008 11:19:43
39

Great Idea Jock and what do you suggest we do when the fall out radiation covers Saudi Arabia? Kuwait? Qatar? Turkmenistan? Turkey? Oman? UAE? Pakistan? Azerbaijan? Armenia? The East coast of Africa and maybe even Israel itself? What then Jock?
42

chatnic,

Australia 09/07/2008 11:20:17

Jack fae Glasgow,
Govan 09/07/2008 11:03:50

"Lets just save ourself some time and grief....NUKE THEM right now and start discussing something a little bit more productive"

Oh OK....Something a little more productive than what exactly???

"We didn't have a problem nuking Hiroshima and Nagasaki to "end" the last world war.."

'We' being folk in Glasgow?

"We've tried showing you the hand of peace .."

I am at a loss as to exactly what was in the 'hand of peace'??? The invasion of neighbouring Iraq, based on pathetic lies? Severed diplomatic relations? Calling them part of the Axis of Evil?

'..and thats not worked.."

True it hasn't...wonder why..

"...now we'll show you what's in our other hand!"

:-) in public?
43

MisterN,

Scotland 09/07/2008 11:21:05
38

No effort is required in invalidating some of the arguements on these threads you only have to read them to see they invalidate themselves.
Look at 38 is that no a prime example?
44

SILVANA,

glasgow 09/07/2008 11:28:49
Chatnic (Note I have automatically given you a capital C)

Your rant regarding upper and lower case is strictly a stupid rant. At times I forget to use the capital letter when stating names of places and people but that does not make me a bigot. It just makes me a lousy typist.
Stop being so idiotic
45

MisterN,

Scotland 09/07/2008 11:42:55
44

If you want to read a rant then read 39 or is your selective sensibilities based on a biggotry which allows you to ignore one type of rant for another?
46

Neil,

Glasgow 09/07/2008 11:45:39
As a matter of international law threatening to launch an unprovoked war on Israel (at least unprovoked by Israel) would make an Israeli first strike legal. Even so I am not keen on it.
47

Big Jock McDoc,

09/07/2008 11:46:43
#43

I don’t want to sound cheeky but do you read a post then in a mad rant you go immediately and type in a response without even thinking about what you write?I’ve debated with you the other night about treason which you didn’t know nothing about when you had to think about it.

Pieice of advice, stop for a second, think about what you write then post it.
48

Gusto,

09/07/2008 11:48:28
"Christians, Catholics, Protestants"
- excuse me but they are all the same - its like saying Muslims, Shia, Suni.
Not to mention the loony fringes.... in both religions.
49

chatnic,

Australia 09/07/2008 11:53:14
SILVANA,
glasgow 09/07/2008 11:28:49

"Chatnic (Note I have automatically given you a capital C)"

http://tinyurl.com/ytene/bravo.gif

"Your rant regarding upper and lower case is strictly a stupid rant."

Er, no. It follows what the poster did, quite precisely.

"At times I forget to use the capital letter when stating names of places and people but that does not make me a bigot. It just makes me a lousy typist."

Read the post. It was not a typo. Unless of course the poster makes a typo EVERYTIME they type 'i'slam, 'm'uslim, 'a'rab, 'p'alestine.

But never when they type 'I'srael, never when they begin a sentence.

Doing it consistently, wipes out any 'sticky key board', 'typo', 'bad grammar', 'poor typist' or any other wriggling excuse for plain olde bigotry.

"Stop being so idiotic"

Uh huh. But let the bigots run free.......NOPE!
50

chatnic,

09/07/2008 12:00:03
46 Neil, Glasgow 09/07/2008 11:45:39

"As a matter of international law threatening to launch an unprovoked war on Israel (at least unprovoked by Israel) would make an Israeli first strike legal."

Quite. Were it the case. However it isn't the case.

//IRAN has issued a strident warning that it would "set on fire" Israel and target the US navy in the Persian Gulf as its first response to any American attack over its nuclear programme//
51

Big Jock McDoc,

09/07/2008 12:06:56
#49
So it means that if a poster intentially capatalises words when they choose to and you have no constructive criticism of them then you consider their argument invalid?
52

Richard Lionheart,

09/07/2008 12:14:28
It is quite simple; once we all convert to Islam the World will be a peaceful place?
53

Louis Catorze,

09/07/2008 12:15:29
#40 et al....

here we are on the brink of a rather large punch up in the middle east and you're talking capitals?

Maybe it's just quicker to leave them out?

Or maybe, to some people, they're just as likely to use a capital for christian/muslim/god as they are for donkey, as it has just as much relevance in their lives.


Anyhoo.....the Iranian Revolutionary Guards :)...just as likely to turn over as the Iraqi Republican Guard or not? Not much to be scared of there.
And it is after all Israel that has the confirmed nukes. I wouldn't go stirring that particular hornet's nest.
54

chatnic,

Australia 09/07/2008 12:17:28
51 Big Jock McDoc, 09/07/2008 12:06:56

"So it means that if a poster intentially capatalises words when they choose to and you have no constructive criticism of them then you consider their argument invalid?"

Pointing out their intentionally lowercased names IS constructive criticism 'of them'.

Their 'argument' for what it was worth, was another matter and you might notice if you took the time, that I did address most of the points they raised.
55

Louis Catorze,

09/07/2008 12:18:23
#52...no....then it would be down to the differing factions of islam to batter each other to death until the point was proved (or not) that their version is better.
Then we might get some peace.

But let's face it...how dull and tedious would it be?
Imagine spending all this life preparing for the next.
Rather them than me... :)
56

chatnic,

Australia 09/07/2008 12:34:09
52 Richard Lionheart, 09/07/2008 12:14:28

"It is quite simple; once we all convert to Islam..."

Really? Apart from a handful of Islamic nut cases, who is asking us to all convert to Islam?

Proselytizing is forbidden in Islam.

"....the World will be a peaceful place?"

A predominantly christained country started the war in Iraq, led by a born again drunkard it seems. Hitler was Catholic. Pol Pot was Bhuddist and studied in a Catholic school. The Japanese were Shinto. The Tamil Tigers are Sikhs. Shall I go on?
57

Big Jock McDoc,

09/07/2008 12:41:28
#54

I’m questioning the reason why you criticised their captialism and subsequently called the poster a bigot. Who are you to be judge and jury about what a person thinks, what they says and how the say it? Folk are sick of being browbeaten through guilt trips by stern nannies like you who think they know best. By all means offer constructive criticism but don’t sermonize. I’m my own man and I’ll make my own opionions and if I convinced by other people they are wrong I’ll change them, I won’t be told
58

M.Corleone,

2nd Vatican State..... Coatbridge 09/07/2008 12:50:42
Standing up for himself and his country....what a wee tart is am-a-dinner-jacket...best to lie down and let the rest of the west walk all over him.....after all wherever we tread there is peace and harmony isn't there?

Dubya is sh--in himself cos he has to take a "real" gamble with Iran as opposed to the cakewalk (in relevant terms of course)that was Iraq.

I bet Tony Bliar is actually pleased to be out of the equation now....or maybe not; he actually thinks he has a direct line to God as well now probably.
59

chatnic,

Australia 09/07/2008 12:55:14
53 Louis Catorze, 09/07/2008 12:15:29


"...here we are on the brink of a rather large punch up in the middle east and you're talking capitals?"

Nope. Bigotry.

"Or maybe, to some people, they're just as likely to use a capital for christian/muslim/god as they are for donkey, as it has just as much relevance in their lives."

Not when it is done purposefully, over and over again and ONLY to Arabs, Muslims, Islam and/or Palestine, in order to deride them.

"the Iranian Revolutionary Guards :)...just as likely to turn over as the Iraqi Republican Guard or not? Not much to be scared of there"

Except, unlike Iraq, Iran hasn't been decimated by a decade or more of sanctions, it has hardware, is on home turf and could close the Straits of Hormuz..

"And it is after all Israel that has the confirmed nukes."

It is alleged to have nukies.
60

2dogs in D.C.,

09/07/2008 13:02:22
Oh,great. We've another new spelling tsar on these threads.
61

Proximaking,

Aberdeen 09/07/2008 13:02:36
I don't think the USA or Israel have any right to tell anyone what to do. If Iran is attacked then under UN law they have a right and I would say an absolute duty to hit back. I always tell my sons to hit a girl back twice as hard as she hits them as too many girls think they have a right to hit boys but boys have no right to hit back. Maybe God knew what he was talking about when he called Israel a wh.re (word from the Bible not allowed in the Scotsman? Are they mad?), a liar, a thief. The more I see of this world panning out the more I think he is sitting here having a real hoot having given us todays script but seemingly set in the past. I look forward to Israel getting the kicking she has for so long richly deserved. And if she dares nuke anyone in retaliation I reckon the powers that be, even the USA, would be morally obliged to nuke her back and put her out of her misery so she never took out her ire on anyone again simply for having the audacity to stand up against her. lllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll lllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll llllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll
62

chatnic,

Australia 09/07/2008 13:04:35
57 Big Jock McDoc,09/07/2008 12:41:28

"I’m questioning the reason why you criticised their captialism and subsequently called the poster a bigot"

Er...it's quite obvious. Read the posters foul work. http://tinyurl.com/6ludtv

"Who are you to be judge and jury about what a person thinks, what they says and how the say it?"

The poster gave his/her own game away by being a tad too rabid.

" Folk are sick of being browbeaten through guilt trips by stern nannies like you who think they know best"

Uh huh. Then perhaps the poster ought NOT deride 'a'rabs, 'm'uslims, 'p'alestinians purposefully.

"By all means offer constructive criticism.."

I did.

" but don’t sermonize."

I haven't, I'm answering to those who seem to think blatant bigotry is OK.

" I’m my own man and I’ll make my own opionions and if I convinced by other people they are wrong I’ll change them, I won’t be told"

Fine, then read the post in question.. http://tinyurl.com/6ludtv ..and get back to me.
63

chatnic,

Australia 09/07/2008 13:10:24
60 2dogs in D.C., 09/07/2008 13:02:22

"Oh,great. We've another new spelling tsar on these threads"

The purposeful lowercasing of Arabs, Muslims, Islam, Palestine in order to deride them, has NOTHING what-so-ever to do with spelling or grammar or typing skills or for that matter, sticky keyboards.

It has a lot to do with being a smelly little bigot though. A friend of yours?
64

chatnic,

09/07/2008 13:20:09
61 Proximaking, Aberdeen 09/07/2008 13:02:36

"If Iran is attacked then under UN law they have a right and I would say an absolute duty to hit back."

In defense, yes.

"I always tell my sons to hit a girl back twice as hard as she hits them as too many girls think they have a right to hit boys but boys have no right to hit back."

Dis-agree....Escalation is not an answer or a cure. The girl might have a bigger brother.

"Maybe God knew what he was talking about when he called Israel a wh.re (word from the Bible not allowed in the Scotsman? Are they mad?), a liar, a thief."

G-/od or some scribe in the desert, high on the local hallucinogens?

" I look forward to Israel getting the kicking she has for so long richly deserved."

Better a change of ways/policies/thinking, i.e., a change of regime.

" And if she dares nuke anyone in retaliation .."

You might want to re-write that. 'in retaliation' indicates Israel being attacked first.

65

,

09/07/2008 13:38:08
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
66

Richard Perry,

GA 09/07/2008 13:42:32
As a student and author of Biblical Prophecy, I cannot help but notice that there is an End Time Bible prophecy which indicates that a Middle Eastern leader will take peace from the earth. Scripture indicates that he will be given a Great Battle.

Could this situation with Iran lead to that Great Battle and World War?

Richard H Perry
67

Silence of the Yams,

09/07/2008 13:47:30
I don't see what they can do militarily against Israel if they take out their banned facilities. They can get their proxy army in Lebannon to fire rockets, but that's about it, and if they attempt to block the Straits they can expect to be dealt with severely by the UN. The Mullah's should realise they can't win! Not a hope.
68

chatnic,

Australia 09/07/2008 13:51:21
61 Proximaking, Aberdeen 09/07/2008 13:02:36


"I always tell my sons to hit a girl back twice as hard as she hits them as too many girls think they have a right to hit boys but boys have no right to hit back."

If they are able to hit harder, they'd be capable of walking away. Domestic violence is rife enough without implanting such notions in young minds.
69

chatnic,

Australia 09/07/2008 14:00:29
67 Silence of the Yams, 09/07/2008 13:47:30

"I don't see what they can do militarily against Israel if they take out their banned facilities."

Which 'banned' facilities?

"They can get their proxy army in Lebannon to fire rockets, but that's about it..."

IF every military facility is indeed wiped out on first strike. Odds are that won't happen.

"..and if they attempt to block the Straits they can expect to be dealt with severely by the UN."

The UN.....are you sure? First you advocate breaking UN rules by attacking Iran, then you want the UN to clean your mess?

"The Mullah's should realise they can't win!"

They don't have to win. They only have to stay in place.

"Not a hope"

Uh huh. Garlands and dancing in the streets again?
70

Neil,

Glasgow 09/07/2008 14:05:18
Chat says it would be legitimate for Israel to launch a preemptive strike against Iran if they had themselves threatened an unprovoked war on Israel. Accpets that Iran has done so. Then says that this would not be justified.

All in one post.

The knots some people will twist themselves into to push their Israelism.
71

chatnic,

09/07/2008 14:09:13
70 Neil, Glasgow 09/07/2008 14:05:18

"Chat says it would be legitimate for Israel to launch a preemptive strike against Iran if they had themselves threatened an unprovoked war on Israel."

Yes.

" Accpets that Iran has done so. Then says that this would not be justified...All in one post."

You'd best read my post again..

"The knots some people will twist themselves into to push their Israelism"

Strange, I'm no fan of either.
72

2dogs in D.C.,

09/07/2008 14:24:35
Really no need to get testy there, Chatnic. Welcome to the Scotsman.
73

Nurse,

Edinburgh 09/07/2008 14:49:49
I think Iran wants a war as they have probaby got the bomb already from Pakistan, its a great excuse for them to wipe out Israel as they have always wanted and do Bin ladens work for him as a state.
74

Silence of the Yams,

09/07/2008 15:05:39
69. Like it or not they have been told by the UN to stop enrichment, this request supercedes all other rights.

If they block the Straits they will no doubt be given an ultimatum and then lethal force will be quickly authorised by the Security Council.

If they want to stay in place they're going the wrong way about it! I hope if they are subject to an IDF strike they do attempt to start a wider war as it will be short for them! Their military is large but obsolete, no doubt they will attack civilian targets, but the price they will pay will likely be "regime changing".



75

chatnic,

Australia 09/07/2008 15:36:07
Neil

Perhaps I should clear this up. I'm on neither side.

There's only one world, which if tended carefully, is abundant enough to house, clothe, water & feed the world's population.

Trade and communication have always been the great levelers, the potential is there, it's being squandered by a brutal and foolish mind set, driven by the need for resources in order to maintain the status quo.

It's a junkies mindset. The kind that will even lie to their mothers and fathers and sons and daughters about some Conspiracy Theory on WMDs, because they simply couldn't tell their mothers and fathers and sons and daughters the truth.

War is not an answer. War is Might is Right. Every time, always has, always will be.

We've been trying it for how many millennium? It's the beast in humanity, now a corporate run business, refined to the point of it being too lucrative a global enterprise to do away with.

Whole towns would suddenly face foreclosure, have to move out, or make plough shares.
76

chatnic,

Australia 09/07/2008 15:45:13
72 2dogs in D.C.,09/07/2008 14:24:35

"Really no need to get testy there, Chatnic"

Matter of fact.

"Welcome to the Scotsman"

May ye be hail an hertie till ye'r auld enouch tae dee. (sp?)
77

Auntie Christ,

axis of evil 09/07/2008 16:04:37
Bravo chatnic, bravo

How appropriate that I was able to see your work here on the Scotsman from it’s inception. I recognize in you a fellow traveler who, like me, is practiced in the art of deception, I applaud you! Your efforts here mirror the work of so many others who are engaged in similar activities around the world and with the help of these people, on both sides of the issue, we will make life more interesting eh? Some have described the coming events as WWIII but a better description, I’m told, would be SlaughterHouse One. I’m happy hope you’re happy too.

I especially like the part where you dis war… nice touch, a true artist in the making – the soft sell approach is always soooo effective. Wink, wink.

It’s all in the name my friend, let the games begin!

Peace… is so boring!
78

chatnic,

Australia 09/07/2008 16:16:09
74 Silence of the Yams, 09/07/2008 15:05:39

"Like it or not they have been told by the UN to stop enrichment, this request supercedes all other rights"

On 'suspicions of' is not enough for the Security Council to wage war.

Unless there's a clear breach of peace of some sort or until it's proven that they are indeed currently in breech of the Non Proliferation Treaty, which is decided by the IAEA, the Security Council it seems, can only legally apply sanctions.

And, at the moment, all we have are 'suspicions of'

"If they block the Straits they will no doubt be given an ultimatum and then lethal force will be quickly authorised by the Security Council"

Those in the security Council who DON'T rely on the Straits of Hormuz might not want to play.

"I hope if they are subject to an IDF strike they do attempt to start a wider war as it will be short for them!"

Wonderful sentiments. Better not to have a war....

"Their military is large but obsolete..."

By far better than Iraq's...It's been 5 + years now.
79

,

09/07/2008 16:20:14
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
80

chatnic,

Australia 09/07/2008 16:21:20
77 Auntie Christ, axis of evil 09/07/2008 16:04:37


"How appropriate that I was able to see your work here on the Scotsman from it’s inception."

I'm just a person expressing an opinion.

81

Newman!,

09/07/2008 16:24:58
#74 You are advocating that one country that has illegal nuclear weapons attacks another country that has no nuclear weapons in order to stop that country from getting illegal nuclear weapons.
Tell me, do you see anything illogical in that?
Do you see anything hypocritical in that?