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Brown 'will be ditched as Prime Minister before next election'



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Published Date: 13 May 2008
FRANK Field, the leader of Labour's 10p tax rebels, came under fierce attack yesterday after claiming that Gordon Brown would be ditched as Prime Minister before the next general election.
He said there were sufficient Labour back-benchers to block the Budget – which has still to complete its passage through parliament – and this would force Mr Brown to step down.

In one of the most coruscating attacks on Mr Brown to date, the forme
r welfare minister recalled "tantrums of an indescribable nature" coming from the then Chancellor and said he "looks so unhappy in his own body it conveys the most dismal message to people".

But Mr Field was quickly branded a loner who appeared to be acting dishonourably by Ed Balls, the Children's Secretary and Mr Brown's closest Cabinet ally.

Last month, Mr Field tabled a finance bill amendment seeking a full compensation package for the estimated 5.3 million low-income Britons losing out as a result of the removal of the 10p income tax band, and met the Chancellor, Alistair Darling, to agree a way forward.

But Mr Balls said of Mr Field: "People could look at what he was saying a few weeks ago and believe at that time that his intentions were honourable. As for (his latest comments on the Prime Minister], I leave you to draw your own conclusions from that."

Asked if Mr Brown would keep trying to work with Mr Field, Mr Balls said: "I'd be surprised if the Prime Minister will be taking Frank Field's advice generally."

However, Mr Balls admitted the government had to move quickly to reverse the crisis caused by the 10p tax. "The reality is that we have got behind the curve on the issue of family finances," he said.

"The 10p tax is a symbol for people's concerns about what is happening to their budgets."

Mr Field yesterday said he was sure Mr Brown would not call the next general election until the last possible moment – May 2010.

He added: "I would be very surprised if he's still the leader of the Labour Party then and therefore leading us into the election campaign."

Mr Brown faced a welter of criticism over the weekend in memoirs from Cherie Blair, the wife of former prime minister Tony Blair, Labour fundraiser Lord Levy and John Prescott, the former deputy prime minister.

Mr Prescott said he frequently had to intervene in blazing rows between Mr Blair and Mr Brown, and described the current Prime Minister as somebody who would "go off like a bloody volcano".

Alan Johnson, the Health Secretary, said he was concerned that the political agenda was being dominated by the "character assassination" of Mr Brown.

He added: "What the public are concerned about is now, all these knives coming out. I'm not a great Brown fan club leader, but I respect him as a really, really decent, good, able politician. Is he perfect? No, he's not. Nor is anybody else in the world. Some people see an opportunity to put the knife into somebody they don't like."

The Prime Minister's official spokesman said Mr Brown "was not going to be distracted" by Mr Field's comments or the allegations in the various memoirs.

He said: "The Prime Minister is focusing on the business of government and the big issues facing the country."

Asked whether Mr Brown was unhappy at the recent spate of memoirs, his spokesman added: "These things happen from time to time."

A "mini Queen's speech" of new policies will be published tomorrow for consultation. These will centre on education, health and the constitution.

The Prime Minister's spokesman added: "Mr Brown said when he became Prime Minister (that] rather than the government's legislative programme just being announced without any prior consultation, in future there will be an opportunity for people to be able to comment and respond to the government's different proposals."

Meanwhile, bookmakers William Hill yesterday slashed the odds of Mr Brown remaining as Prime Minister this year from 5/1 to 3/1.







The full article contains 679 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 12 May 2008 9:35 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Labour Party
 
1

,

13/05/2008 00:05:07
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2

,

13/05/2008 00:05:47
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,

13/05/2008 00:06:22
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4

Alan B,

13/05/2008 00:10:46
The sooner brown goes the better.
5

Stepford Nat,

13/05/2008 00:11:51
The way the poles are going, I reckon we could make a case for Alex could be an interim/compromise PM, providing unity where its needed.

Is he up to it?

www.snp.org - we could do england as well!
6

Colkitto,

River Clyde 13/05/2008 00:19:47
You really don't know what side of the border the comedy gold comes from these days !
7

Conan the Librarian™,

13/05/2008 00:20:31
5
I thought the Poles were all coming here.
I don't think the SNP does unity;-)
8

,

13/05/2008 00:24:08
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9

Mercian,

13/05/2008 00:45:45
It seems UK politics is filling in for Big Brother whilst it's off air. I wish these people with their "Gordon is such a bitch" revelations would stick to policy criticisms.
10

Scotindy,

Los Angeles 13/05/2008 00:55:08
What do you mean get rid of Brown as PM, that's disgraceful and disloyal. The man is doing a great job for Scotland, and with wee Wendy up here doing her stuff, it's a marraige made in heaven. For Us!!!!!
11

Yeti,

13/05/2008 01:16:45
Frank Field is an odious little sod. I am not a Labour supporter, and never have been, but he seems to be saying: "We should all sink shouting 'I told you so'". Obnoxious person.
12

Alfred E. Neuman,

13/05/2008 01:22:25
Excellent news, this can only help Alex Salmond's and the SNP cause. I predict more than 20 seat now, maybe, let's say 647 in light of this news.

That means Alex Salmond will be the next PM of the UK, that should overcome the reserved matter of constitution.

It's time.

(Thought I'd just do it before one of you (know who) comes on an starts that crap, although Brown does deserve to go, I hate the bar steward.)
13

democracy,

Scottish Borders 13/05/2008 02:30:35
..........and if Brown thinks people will put up with the ignorant Tax Credit system as compensation for their 10p tax threshold losses, then he really is in self destruct mode, bring it on !!
14

Jimbo2,

13/05/2008 03:37:05
This'll just be another cynical Labour ploy dreamt up by wee Dougie to raise sympathy votes for Gordo back in his constituency.
15

Guga II,

Rockall 13/05/2008 04:27:49
Let's have a general election NOW. Bring it on Maggie Broon.
16

Evan Owen,

Snowdonia 13/05/2008 07:26:04
Can you honestly say that things would be better without Brown? They are all a bunch of idiots who are now circling him like sharks, a feeding frenzy likely to make your blood run cold. Then when it is over you take a long look at the replacement and you shiver some more.

Politics is bust, it is not fit for purpose, if it ever was. They make a hash of it and don't pay the price for being wrong, we do.
17

Phil C,

13/05/2008 08:09:40
That twattish son-of-the-manse in a suit should have been ditched in 1995! Waste of space. Waste of time. Go!..and let Rubberband or Balls do the shouting. They're also not very good! Whoever it is, they will need to get on with Salmond or his successor as equals and stop playing their silly unionista games.
18

paulr,

edinburgh 13/05/2008 08:13:02
And what would any politician know about being "honourable", a quaint concept for the niaive and politically stupid.
19

brownlie,

13/05/2008 08:27:24
12 Alfred E.

Sad, sad day when our most eminent and effective unionist apologists is critical of the one person who can save the union. This is a u-turn worthy of Wendy.
20

Jimmy the Pie,

13/05/2008 08:39:50
Pity it wasn't going to be next week when he's ditched.
There should be a general election as soon as possible.
People are seeing for the first time what a bunch of self serving to$sers New Labour Sleaze and Corruption really are.
Are Wendy, Dougie, Gordon, Des, Alistair,etc working class?? Have any of them ever done a real job???
#1 Socialist, Tony Bliar has just bought a £4 million hoose! While millions are either dead or living in squalor thanks to Tony and his socialist comrades.
The time is fast approaching.
Lets boot every last one of them out
21

Phil C,

13/05/2008 09:13:22
#20 Jimmy

Bliar was pampered from childhood and has always been a gold-plated 'socialist'. He carved out a good career for himself and was in the right place at the right time to give Labour a new lease of life. He's away now. Be happy for that and let him get on with his trappings. We have to stop being jealous of success if Scotland is to have a thriving economy.

The Labour Party has not been Socialist for decades. They've had to run a capitalist economy from time to time and invariably ballsed it up! How people still vote Labour is beyond me.

What Scotland needs is independence and then a centrist government which rewards the successful and looks after those who are unable to cope by themselves. You will never close the gap but we can create a fairer society more easily in a 'small' country than as part of a cobbled together 'union' in which Scotland has a very weak identity.
22

megz,

glasgow 13/05/2008 09:19:44
i'm hoping he clings on and wendy too. they are both a disaster, only thing better would be if wee dougie was pm imagine the calamities then.
23

shivago8,

livingston 13/05/2008 09:24:15
Back to the FERRY,I say,Gordon sit in your front garden and look over the wonderful view of the Filth of Forth and the bridges.
YOU DONT DESERVE IT BUT IT KEEPS YOU AWAY FROM MAKING ANY MORE MESS OF OUR COUNTRY
24

Tommy Trout,

Alicante, Spain 13/05/2008 09:33:26
The article states, there is to be a mini "Queen's Speech", which will centre on health, education and CONSTITUTION! Does this mean that after the debacle with Bendy Wendy the real reason he was upset with her was because she jumped in before he could deliver his CONSTITUTION statement? I also thought he said he was waiting for the Callum commission before any debate on the subject. Sounds more like Brown was throwing his toys out the pram, again.
Three years past I said to friends that,
a) Brown would always be unalectable to middle England, because of what he was, and
b) Even if Blair did go, he would be passing on a "Poison Chalice" to whomever took the job.
Looks like I was right on both counts.
25

Alternative (High Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 13/05/2008 09:34:43
"He said there were sufficient Labour back-benchers to block the Budget – which has still to complete its passage through parliament – and this would force Mr Brown to step down."

Good.

Well lets see them do exactly that then, rather than just talking about it.
26

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

13/05/2008 09:36:41
If Labour loses Crewe & Nantwich then Brown is a goner.

Let's hope the voters of Crewe & Nantwich do the right thing.
27

Mr. Lachie Todd,

Edinburgh 13/05/2008 09:50:31
Dare I say it, many must be wishing the consummate politician Tony Blair was still P.M. and Leader of the Labour Party!

28

hibbyspurs,

13/05/2008 09:53:28
#25

Theres no chance of the budget not making its passage through parliment.

If the budget wasnt approved it wouldnt just be Brown that would have to stand down, it would be the entire cabinet, the government would be brought down and a forced general election called.

For a budget to fail its progression through parliment is nothing short of a voe of no confidence.

It would be brilliant to have a forced election but do you really think that those back benchers on the labour benches who have tory candidates breathing down their necks in middle/ lower England & SNP candidates in Scotland doing likewise are going to block the budget?

Self preservation takes over I'm afraid regardless of any bluster or sabre rattling about the 10p tax.
29

hibbyspurs,

13/05/2008 09:55:19
#27

nah your wrong their, I disliked President Blair as much as I do Brown & the Labour party for that matter.
30

danielrober,

13/05/2008 09:55:29
I'm just not sure if the Labour party or the SNP get it. We're sick of single issue politics.

We lost entire industries over single issues (wages). We are selling entire industries over single issues (pensions). We ae going to regulate industry and service out of the UK over single issues (Environment). We might lose our country over one issue, putting twenty years of work on our backs (Spearation) and now this.

Give us all a break break Labour/SNP. We're all getting sick of the b*tching. There are other problems to deal with you know, how about spending parlimentary times, it both paliments on other subjects?
31

hibbyspurs,

13/05/2008 10:08:45
#30

Spot on!

I think for many with regards to Labour the penny has finally dropped. A party in 97 that ws so desperate to govern they sold their political souls to make themselves an electable version of the Conservative party.

In the last 11 years many have been deluded that LAbour was doing well as it raised taxes on everything and cut spending as it frittered away OUR money on nonsene ideas. They got away with it because they allowed the economy to rise on a sea of consumer debt and because everyone had more money no one noticed the taxes that were being raised. Now that economic bubbles gone "pop" everyone suddenly realises just how much the Lbour party have conned us and ripped us off as we've all got a little less money and now these taxes really hurt.

Labour couldnt ever really change but now as they lurch between centre left & centre right & probably back to the loony left they're mistakes and incompetence is hurting those the party is meant to stand for, the wroking man.

At least if you vote tory you know what your voting for, a right wing (more centre right these days) party.

Likewise you know what the SNP want if your vote goes that way.

Will a try government in Westminster under David Cameron be a whole lot better? Who knows? Tell you one thing they cant possible be worse than the current fiasco!
32

brownlie,

13/05/2008 10:09:52
30 Dan

I am not sure how you can list a series of issues and then call them single issues.
33

carrottop,

Dumfries 13/05/2008 10:11:53
Not only will Brown be ditched as a leader before the next election, Labour will be ditched as a party.
Now only the choice of the mindless 'my mum and dad voted Labour' degenerates who are holding this country back.
34

Caratacus,

West Britain 13/05/2008 10:28:04
I've just had a quick look at the members of David Cameron's shadow cabinet. If you think the Labour party are bad then don't expect any difference from the Conservatives when they (Depressingly!) win the next general election.
35

danielrober,

13/05/2008 10:31:33
# 31. Though i'll get shot for this at the moment I'm proably going to vote Conservative at the next election. We need a change and a decent enougth leader. In 97 though i voted Labour (Blair/Brown) and don't regret it, a lot good has happened. But democracy is as much about change as it is about choice. Its time for a change.

# 32.

Issue = decades
Wage = 60's - 70's
Pension = 00's
Environment = 90's - 00's
Separation = 00's - 10's

Clever political management has meant these issues have never actually over lapped, during debates. Single issue obsession has made life hell for UK private sector people (net tax payers). Though is fairness untill recently things did actually get better.
36

brownlie,

13/05/2008 10:46:27
35 Dan

Extremely interesting that you should completely ignore the issue of the invasion and subsequent horrors perpetrated on the people of Iraq .

Do you not recall the furore this caused not just in this country but all over the world? It certainly affected the environment in that poor country.
37

Nikostratos,

13/05/2008 11:10:47
#36

The Iraq Militia in the name of whatever branch of Islam they purport to follow are doing a fair bit of the 'Horrors' in that poor country.

Such as that Iraq guy who killed his daughter by stamping on her throat whilst her brothers held her down and when they threw her in an grave her uncles spat on her.All because she spoke to a British soldier.

His wife divorced him (after watching her daughter being killed)and is now in hiding trough fear of being killed herself and he is on paid leave from his government job. And the Iraq police have pressed no charges because he they said he done the 'Honorable' thing.
38

brownlie,

13/05/2008 11:29:06
37 Nikos

If that was a justification for the invasion then I think you're putting the cart before the horse.

The horrors are actual not hypothetical and the trigger which set up the conditions that allowed various militia groups to flourish was the invasion.
39

Phil C,

13/05/2008 11:41:52
I do think that Iraq was a major cause of the current global unrest and economic meltdown. While Brown didn't cause it, he does hold a smoking gun. It is an issue with th electorate, and rightly so. The lies caused a huge loss of trust. Blair and Brown could have done much more to control Bush. They chose to ignore our 'friends' in Europe. Blair scarpered and Labour is reaping what it sowed. Serves them all right.
40

A voice from SCOTLAND..,

13/05/2008 12:13:21
37
Nikostratos,
13/05/2008 11:10:47


Horrible as that is. Who are we to get in our planes with our bombs and selectively decide which horrible regime to change in this world.

We were taken into this war on a lie. And we have endangered the lives of our citizens much more than they ever were before we invaded and had we not.

Britain and by that England is not a world power, is not the worlds policeman, is not a colonial power, having now lost Scotland thank God, and is trying to live in the 18th century when Brittania ruled the waves.

We have and will continue to have many problems to deal with on these islands and they are being ignored. It is time for us to look to our own house before putting others in order.

Britain is being bankrupted by this imperialistic ego tripping. We will soon be ruled by the IMF again as we were in the 70s when the North Sea bounty bailed us out.

It is time.

Yes we can.

Scotland knows that and Alex Salmond will take us there have no fear.
41

kimba,

13/05/2008 12:41:08
If, and it's a big IF, Scotland did go out on its own we would see a steady drain south of population reduced to abject povety and, possibly within 25 years, a request to return.
42

John south of Soutra,

13/05/2008 12:46:32
Ed Balls - the Childrens Secretary, can someon please explain to me why we need a secretary for children amd what his function actually is
43

brownlie,

13/05/2008 12:50:37
41 kimba

I know I should not really ask but can you please explain how your crystal ball reached this conclusion which is strangely at odds with those of eminent economists.
44

Proximaking,

13/05/2008 13:02:15
coruscating? I have always thought Frank was an odious little toad and he has confirmed it. I think the constant harping on about Brown will die out soon enough and it is two years to the next election, ..... a lifetime in politics. I think Kimba is wrong, history shows it is the Scots who have always had the big ideas and I see no reason why that should have to change. Far more English people are coming to Scotland than Scots are going to England. I think the way it is going Scotland will probably become independent quite soon and I seriously believe the English will regret it from the moment it happens. As I've said we can let the English regions into the new UK one by one after that though we should make London wait a long long time because let's face it they're not really Brits any more anyway are they? Full of murdering billionaires and their hangers on and dreadful old fogies and hags pretending to be pop stars in their 50's and 60's, none of whom pay one iota of tax here in any case.
45

kimba,

13/05/2008 13:05:49
43. For every eminent economist the nats have,the unionist have also,both telling different stories,this is my personal opinion,if i'm wrong i'll apologise,but if i'm right....It doesn't bare thinking about.
46

FedUpTaxPayer,

Edinburgh 13/05/2008 13:06:12
I think Labour MP's need to balance loyalty vs losing the next election. It's very, very difficult for me at this stage to see Brown turning things round in 2 years to remain in government. It's possible of course, but seems unlikely to me.

That said, is there a decent alternative candidate in this government of the incompetents?
47

,

13/05/2008 13:27:39
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48

brownlie,

13/05/2008 13:46:53
47 Alex etc

It is not amazing at all - Kimba is a leading unionist intellectual, unsullied by dogma, and is a major asset to our movement.
49

kimba,

13/05/2008 14:53:59
This from the Daily Express: ” But Ms Alexander declared: “The big story is we called the SNP’s bluff and they blinked.


“They are as yellow as the colour that supports their party.” seems wee wendy is fighting back,bless!
50

Jimmy the Pie,

13/05/2008 15:01:41
#47 AlexSalmond4FirstMinister,

Kimba should be pitied rather than mocked. The fact is, he's no fairly right, in fact he's one of the favourites to win Village Idiot of the Year on UKShite TV.


He's getting my vote!!!
51

Boggle fey the Bog,

13/05/2008 15:28:07
35 danielrober,13/05/2008 10:31:33
# 31. Though i'll get shot for this at the moment I'm proably going to vote Conservative at the next election. We need a change and a decent enougth leader. In 97 though i voted Labour (Blair/Brown) and don't regret it, a lot good has happened. But democracy is as much about change as it is about choice. Its time for a change.

Now there's a surprise Danny Bhoy!!!

# 32.

Issue = decades
Wage = 60's - 70's
Pension = 00's
Environment = 90's - 00's
Separation = 00's - 10's



This is how it actually was Danny Bhoy

Issue = decades
Workers Rights, Pensions, Withdrawal from East of Suez, Paying off War Debts = 60's - 10's

Assault on Workers Living standards and compensation, Dismantling the Wealth of the Nation, Destroying the Industrial base of the Nation = 70's - 90's

Subservience to the Franco-Germanic Empire (EC), further dismantling of Democracy, Blind allegiance to the American Cause = 90's - 00'

Destruction of Individual Freedom, State control of the Masses, UK State engendered Terrorism, Denial of the Elected Central Government that they are War criminals, Over Taxation of Individuals, Increase in poverty, Illegal Wars = 00's - 10's

and in all decades, a complete dereliction of providing adequate housing, education and Health services for all the population of these countries that make up this so Dis- United Kingdom.

As I've said before Danny Bhoy, you've really lost the plot, yourself and the other Onionist Drones should really do some research, and put yer grey-cell in gear before letting yer fingers touch the keyboard.

As an aside I haven't bothered correcting your spelling mistakes, but then then they just go to reinforce that which I have stated previously about Onionist Drones, does it not!!
52

danielrober,

13/05/2008 15:34:27
# 36 brownlie,

I certainly have not forgotten the war who can, its still going on. Nor have i forgotten the decade of reports from Amesty International, the UN, the EU, Universities and other liberal bodies. Saddam Husssain could have been another Hitler - I don't know, but thats what the reports said. SO eventually the Armies went in, hopfully soon they will come out. All wars end.

Yet if you judge an entire government on one policy just like one issue you lose the point of democratic government. Change not revolution.

If i ever meet Brown or Blair, i'd love to buy them a drink. At last a western government that recognises reform and democratic choice (for real), what rarity.
53

danielrober,

13/05/2008 15:48:43
# 51 Boggle fey the Bog

Actually agree with a lot (not all) of what your saying.

By the way its not just me thats lost the plot but most of my family, friends and home communities. 70 years of backing the Labour Party and not so much as a polite nod. Not nice. A lot of familes have backed the other political parties too, for a long time and now you guys fine, so its bye, bye.

Err ok. But i'll and others will still be producing engineering products. I don't think you guys understand - it's what we do to pay the bills.

What y having Brown? I buying.
54

kimba,

13/05/2008 16:01:54
50.you really aren't the brightest star in the sky,Im a she not a he,as for your comments,you really must get a reality check.
55

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 13/05/2008 16:10:49
#54 kimba

Back prowling these boards being objectionable as usual.

Best ignored!
56

brownlie,

13/05/2008 16:12:54
52 daniel

It is easy to pontificate on war from the safety of your armchair. I doubt if the innocent Iraqis who were maimed and murdered and lost loved ones would be so willing to have a drink with Blair or Brown. Neither, I suggest, would those in this country who lost loved ones through being ill-equipped to fight Blair's battles.

According to our leaders the invasion was nothing to do with regime change - evil though that may have been. We were told we were under threat of an imminent {okay 45 minutes} attack with weapons of mass destruction. We even had troops and tanks on the streets of our capital city to frighten the public into believing the imminent threat.

A 'dodgy' dossier was concocted in order to fool the cabinet and the country into backing the Bush-inspired invasion. MPs voted for the war to retain their privileges and swallowed their principles.

If Iraq was not oil-rich the UK/US government would not be at all concerned about human right abuses - abuses which we all know go on unhindered in other parts of the world.
57

kimba,

13/05/2008 16:21:05
55.SORRY,forgot people can't have a different opinion,it may not suit you nats,but who cares!
58

The Master,

13/05/2008 16:21:47
It is becoming increasingly apparent that Brown simply is not up to the demands of his job: even his acolyte Wendy has now declared “UDI” from him. I think that his true niche was as Chancellor, in which position he was able to exercise his “iron fist”, safely sheltered as he was behind Blair. He knew that Blair was a capable frontman who was scared of him to the extent that he did not feel strong enough to sack him. I agree with Field that the knives will be out if he doesn’t turn things around pdq.

#49 kimba: Salmond was banking on his separation referendum being voted down in the parliament so that he could exploit this for all it was worth. Didn’t he say shortly after being elected that his party would just have to accept that there was no majority for a referendum in the parliament: as a good Nat, he likes nothing better than being handed a grievance to exploit. This insistence of his that Wendy’s change of tack has made his day is the usual Machiavellian bluster that we’ve come to expect from the bloated demagogue with the popular touch.
59

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 13/05/2008 16:26:32
I see that Darling has increase the tax allowance by £600 to compensate for removing the 10p rate. I bet he claws this back by not increasing the allowance next time round.
60

kimba,

13/05/2008 16:26:50
58,The Master. In other words,he's all mouth and no trewsers!
61

A voice from SCOTLAND..,

13/05/2008 16:27:13



Essential reading for all you unionist eunuchs.

http://tinyurl.com/6hcudq
62

A voice from SCOTLAND..,

13/05/2008 16:30:07
Not looking good unionist eunuchs.
Sunday Times Poll:


"It should become an independent country"
84.10% 1440 Votes


"Give the Scottish parliament more powers"
4.80% 82 Votes


"Things should stay as they are"
5.30% 90 Votes


"The parliament should have fewer powers"
0.60% 10 Votes


"Scrap Holyrood -let's all go back to Westminster" 5.10% 87 Votes (probably all Lord Foulkes)


God Bless and keep Alex Salmond.
63

kimba,

13/05/2008 16:30:10
59. Are you ever satisfied,the man is a t-t,but at least he's trying to put things right.
64

danielrober,

13/05/2008 16:43:51
# 56 brownlie

Actually some people i 'knew' have aleady been killed in this war. So for the sake of those families, still fighting for democracy. You can go to h*ll and whilst your their chat with Hitler on apeasement.
65

The Master,

13/05/2008 16:44:55
#59 connaughtboy: when Brown first introduced the 10p rate, he made it clear that it was only intended as a temporary, transitional policy. I know that you Nats are blind to broken promises, but this isn’t one: the increase in the tax allowance seems a sensible compromise whien seen in this light.
66

kimba,

13/05/2008 16:47:48


More poll questions than answers
By Brian Taylor
Political editor, BBC Scotland


Voters were asked whether they wanted the Union to "continue as it is or see it come to an end".

They were further reminded that ending the Union would "mean that Scotland became an independent country".

The responses suggest that 56% of Scots would prefer the continuing Union, compared with 32% favouring its end.
67

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

13/05/2008 16:48:08
#62 Are you still trying to dress up a meaningless online poll as fact?
68

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

13/05/2008 16:49:07
#66 Polls are meaningless kimba - it's the real one that matters.

69

kimba,

13/05/2008 16:52:55
68. Agree,but it gives some form of guide line.
70

The Master,

13/05/2008 17:06:44
#68 Federalist: at least the BBC’s poll sounds like it asked a question that was comprehensible, rather than the SNP’s, which seeks to baffle ordinary members of the public with incomprehensible language. I think that the Nats’s talk of “opening negotiations with a view to independence” could have been invented by Mugabe himself!
71

Publius,

London 13/05/2008 17:10:13
#17 Phil C

Weren't the Alexanders brought up in a manse too? I think I read this somewhere.
72

Publius,

London 13/05/2008 17:13:23
#44 Proximaking
"Far more English people are coming to Scotland than Scots are going to England."

I'm sure you're wrong.
73

Warden An' All, Reborn,

13/05/2008 17:15:31
This 10p tax thing makes me puck, how can so many people, and that includes people who should know better like Labour MPs, think that getting rid of this tax band can be anything other than benefitial for the economy, and rectify the inequality it now has brought about.
74

Warden An' All, Reborn,

13/05/2008 17:18:00
72/Publius- I think you may find such statements are subjective, and maybe right or wrong depending.
75

Publius,

London 13/05/2008 17:22:04
#65 The Master

You are mistaken. When Brown introduced the ten per cent band, he said it would be permanent. Brown introduced the ten percent band at the same time as he abolished the practice of raising the tax threshold in line with average earnings. The ten percent band eased the pain for relatively poor people.

Brown's fiddling with the tax system has now caught up with him and Labour. The row over ten percent is only the biggest of several attacks on Labour's tax policies. Others are companies moving their HQs out of the UK, a Salford Labour councillor in a safe seat being defeated by an independent because he wanted to introduce a congestion charge into Greater Manchester, grumbling about higher excise duties on older cars (a stealth tax, not in the budget), protests in England over car parking charges imposed by councils that cannot increase their council tax. And bigger than all of these the collapse of private pensions because of Brown's taxes on pension funds.
76

Publius,

London 13/05/2008 17:25:30
#44 Warden

Good afternoon Warden.
I concede there are a lot of English people in Scotland, but there are even more Scots in England (I'm one!). The English in Scotland may be more noticeable because they make up a higher proportion of the population than do Scots in England.
There are lots of Scots in London but they are hardly noticeable at all. 40% of London's population of 7.5 million weren't born anywhere in the UK!
77

brownlie,

13/05/2008 17:33:52
64 daniel

Quite frankly, I do not believe you and your charming last comment negates any point of view you may ever wish to post here.
78

Warden An' All, Reborn,

13/05/2008 17:39:20
76/Publius-In numbers for sure there are far more Scots in England than English in Scotland, but in percentage per population things are reversed. As for being noticed I think there is an automatic response when people hear an accent, so there is no real difference there.
79

The Master,

13/05/2008 17:42:56
#75 Publius: no, I’m not mistaken! Where’s your evidence for this? "The 10p rate was introduced in 1999 as a transitional measure". ..... Brown always intended to abolish the 10p tax rate and he has done just that. ...
80

Queen D,

Glasgow 13/05/2008 18:02:39
Oh ! Master I'm surprised that you lack the grasp of the English language to understand the SNP referendum question.
Agreed , that it has to follow legalities ,which it does.However it remains fairly self explanatory.
As for the 10p tax rate ,only a party of great stupidity would have thought it would not affect the low paid workers , for whom they purport to fight.
81

Queen D,

Glasgow 13/05/2008 18:05:22
Why is the paper not allowing comment on that charming lady , Mrs Blair ?
Are you afraid that it might get out of hand ?
I'm sure the dear Queen suffered a little nausea over the revelation this morning !
82

The Master,

13/05/2008 18:14:16
#80 Queen D: my concern is for the proper functioning of democracy: the SNP are doing their own cause no good whatsoever by the use of impenetrable language, which can only exclude certain voters from the democratic process, and I’d be very interested to hear what the Campaign for Plain English have to say about all this.

It may be that the referendum question’s been so worded for legal reasons, but transparency is surely of overriding importance in any democracy. If the SNP can’t come up with more accessible wording than this, then it’s nothing short of a travesty.
83

Publius,

London 13/05/2008 18:27:37
#79 The Master

Hello Master. Try this one for size. It dispels the illusion that ten per cent was intended to be transitional:

http://www.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/656721/brownie-no3-gordon-browns-transitional-10p-tax-rate.thtml
84

Publius,

London 13/05/2008 18:33:10
#82 The Master

Hello Master
I agree with your comment here. The only meaningful question:

Do you want Scotland to be an independent state outside the United Kingdom? Yes/No

The formula in the White Paper is designed to maximise the yes vote by inviting the curious to vote yes on the grounds that they need not commit themselves because independence won't happen until negotiations have been completed.
85

The Master,

13/05/2008 18:48:25
#83 Publius: Agreed that Brown may have not been particularly crystal about the transitional nature of the 10p rate, but transitional it quite clearly was, as he finally admitted to the Treasury Committee in March 1999. Typical politician!
86

Truely English,

13/05/2008 19:25:58
44
There are a high number of Scots in England especially in the West Midlands and they control so many organisations at every level and that is really good for we are all the same. Indeed, there are people from Inverness, Aberdeen, Glasgow and Edinburgh close by and many families will remain here as they have done in past generations. Good luck to them.

87

A voice from SCOTLAND..,

13/05/2008 19:59:38
Ah I see the unionist eunuch nut jobs have been aroused.
Still not looking very good nutjobs.

Not looking good unionist eunuchs.
Sunday Times Poll:


"It should become an independent country"
84.10% 1440 Votes


"Give the Scottish parliament more powers"
4.80% 82 Votes


"Things should stay as they are"
5.30% 90 Votes


"The parliament should have fewer powers"
0.60% 10 Votes


"Scrap Holyrood -let's all go back to Westminster" 5.10% 87 Votes (probably all Lord Foulkes)


God Bless and keep Alex Salmond.
88

A voice from SCOTLAND..,

13/05/2008 20:00:54
There are also large numbers of Asians who must be persuaded to stay where else will we get a pint of milk at 10 o'clock at night :o)
89

A voice from SCOTLAND..,

13/05/2008 20:01:29
The SNP has an Asian MSP :o)
90

A voice from SCOTLAND..,

13/05/2008 20:01:51
The SNP also has an English MSP.
91

A voice from SCOTLAND..,

13/05/2008 20:03:16
The SNP are a very inclusive modern outward looking party. Unlike the unionist eunuchs who cannot break sweat without permission from Serbminster.
92

danielrober,

13/05/2008 20:04:20
To those generally alternating between sticking their head up their own a*se or into the ground. Learn to cope with life. Its hard, tough, passionate, scary, it often deals you a bad hand, yet other times you can just catch the light of a sun set and see heaven.

There is such a deal of negaitivity by some posters, but thats just an act. Your really afraid of the future, because success bring repondsibility. We're all upset with Blair and Brown because they could do so much, and they have done so much. But its never enougth, that's why you have to get up in the morining role out of bed, trusting to luck and hard work.

You guys are also going to have to get use to having engineers, scientist and business people involved with politics 'again'. Cope with it you might enjoy it.

WELL DONE to the last four PM's that i remember, i'd hate to have your job, but don't think your on your own.
93

kimba,

13/05/2008 20:42:58
90. The SNP also has an English MSP.
So what!
94

,

13/05/2008 20:49:26
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
95

Sanny,

14/05/2008 00:15:45
One thing is certain if Brown 'jumps' or is 'pushed'then the anti-Scottish feeling running high in England will ensure that his replacement is English. Can we then complain bout an Engilsh PM?
96

celtic4,

USA 18/05/2008 02:19:29
First of all, I agree with #18. Honor and politics do not make good bedfellows.
Then I must add there are soooo many arguments in these posts, three or four to last count, that it is too hard to follow. Sorry it is lame.

 

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