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Scotland will not be first among equals

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Published Date: 17 April 2008
A HUGE gulf emerged yesterday between the aspirations of Westminster and Holyrood for the role of joint ministerial committees (JMCs) as Alex Salmond met with ministers to discuss the body.
The First Minister and Welsh Secretary Paul Murphy have begun to work out the ground rules of the committee involving the UK, Scottish, Welsh and Northern Irish governments.

Earlier Mr Salmond's spokesman had boldly proclaimed that it would be t
he means to deal with rows between the parliaments such as control of Scotland's seas, the £120 million of prison money not passed on to Scotland or the fate of the Lockerbie bomber Abdelbaset Ali Mohmed al-Megrahi.

But even before the two sat down a senior Westminster source had dismissed the JMC and said it would not be a partnership of equals. "This is not a relationship of equals," he said. "John Swinney (the finance minister] is dealing with the Treasury of the United Kingdom.

"The JMC is part of the devolution settlement – it does not exist to undermine it. What it will expose is the narrowness of the claims and pomposity of the posturing of Executive ministers."

A source told The Scotsman that Mr Murphy had been embarrassed by the comments and had provided assurances the JMC's would provide a proper forum for disagreement.

However, the Scottish Government was unable to say how disputes would be resolved, who would arbitrate and how the UK government, which holds the purse strings, could be over-ruled by one or even all three of the devolved administrations.

A Scottish Government spokesman said that details would emerge after Mr Murphy had met with Northern Ireland's First Minister, Ian Paisley. The first JMC meeting is expected some time in the summer.

After their meeting yesterday, Mr Salmond and Mr Murphy insisted it had been useful and constructive.

And Mr Murphy denied he was worried that Mr Salmond would use the joint ministerial committee system as an opportunity to grandstand.

"I think the committee is a legitimate way for all First Ministers and appropriate ministers to get together to deal with issues of common concern.

"There will be issues which we can sit around the table and talk about."

He also denied the new body would be restricted by not being a "relationship of equals".

"It's a relationship where we don't start talking about equals and unequal, but a relationship in which people come together and talk about differences on different issues," he said.

Rows so far between Edinburgh and Westminster have involved spending on the London Olympics, and whether Scotland should continue to get council tax benefit if the tax is replaced by local income tax.

Mr Murphy said: "There is a mechanism that deals with finance – a joint meeting of the finance ministers from Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland and the UK government."

A joint ministerial committee, chaired by the Prime Minister and bringing together ministers from Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland, was set up in 1999 but has not met since 2002, except for a sub-committee on European matters.

Reviving the ministerial committee system was one of the early goals of Mr Salmond, and Prime Minister Gordon Brown asked Mr Murphy to take up the issue earlier this year.

Mr Murphy met Rhodri Morgan, First Minister of Wales, earlier this week, and will shortly meet senior Northern Ireland ministers.

Mr Salmond said: "I have long advocated the re-invigoration of the JMC and I was delighted to welcome Paul Murphy to Edinburgh today to discuss the detailed arrangements around getting the vital JMC process up and running again by this summer. I made clear that I want to do all I can to ensure the success of the JMC meetings in supporting structured relationships between the UK government and the devolved administrations."

Alexander blasts SNP's £2.7bn of 'broken promises'

WENDY Alexander yesterday attacked SNP "broken promises" and cuts ahead of the party's spring conference this weekend.

The Scottish Labour leader claimed the first year of an SNP Scottish Government had resulted in £2.7 billion of ditched and under-funded promises and cuts.

The comments from the embattled Labour leader, who has just emerged from a tough first year dominated by investigations into her leadership campaign donations, were dismissed as a "moanifesto" by the SNP.

However, Ms Alexander produced details of £686 million of ditched election promises, including reducing P1 to P3 class sizes to 18 and paying off student debt; £933 million of funding promises including expanding nursery provision and drug rehabilitation, had been cut; and the £1.114 billion efficiency savings announced by the Scottish Government yesterday were, she said, cuts.

She also sneered at the SNP's biggest achievement, the council tax freeze, which she said was worth 71p a week to the average household, "less than a naan bread".

The only thing she could find to praise the SNP was the attempts by the justice secretary, Kenny MacAskill, to tackle binge drinking.

The minister for parliamentary business, Bruce Crawford, said: "Labour lost their first election in Scotland for 50 years because of their negativity, total lack of ideas and silly attacks on the SNP – one year on and they have clearly learned nothing."



The full article contains 872 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

 
1

Angus Ogg,

16/04/2008 22:38:41
Dear David Maddox,

You report...

"a senior Westminster source had dismissed the JMC and said it would not be a partnership of equals. "This is not a relationship of equals," he said. "John Swinney (the finance minister] is dealing with the Treasury of the United Kingdom.

Please can you say who this source is?

"No" you say.

I didn't think you would.

For the "source" to have a shred of credibility, they should also have the courage of their convictions and not hide anonymously as a "source" especially not a "senior source", or a "senior Westminster source".

Otherwise their words are worth what you paid for them. Nothing.

If you have to report unattributed anonymous political gossip, please can you use the more accurate phrase....

"unattributed anonymous political gossip"

Thanks.
2

Andrew BOD,

Aberdeen/shire 17/04/2008 00:07:52
DAVID MADDOX, THE GOSSIP COLUMNIST.

However, the upshot is that simply by their arrogance, these loose cannon 'senior sources' are building a bigger army of SNP supporters by the day.

I reckon it's Cairns. He just can't help himself.
3

Angus Ogg,

17/04/2008 00:16:06
#2

Hi Andrew,

I think that you have hit the nail on the head.

This and the fact that Labour have a hugely difficult job effectively combating the SNP just now.

I think perhaps the best that the Labour Strategists can do is go consult Sun Tzu. For whatever they seem to do it doesn't dent the SNP.

Must be very frustrating for them ?
4

,

17/04/2008 00:26:46
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
5

Fifi la Bonbon,

17/04/2008 00:29:53
I wrote this a few days ago but I can see it being just as relevant here!

Thank you for joining the Cybernats. Your commitment to a brave new Scotia free of alien influences is appreciated by Alex, and indeed by Sir Sean and Mister Souter.

Now this is how it works.

Your task is to scour the websites of those Scottish newspapers that permit comments, and fill them up with - well, whatever you like, really.

You will probably get an email from us suggesting the line to take, but it is really important for everyone not to take the same line. Nonetheless there will generally be one story that we all hack into. Usuallly one that expresses any criticism of Alex or even more, Mister Souter.

"Another non story ..." First of all, we need to undermine the reporting. So attack the reporter. Suggest that he or she is unprincipled, incompetent, drunk, corrupt, and in the pay of some English conspiracy. Feel free to make reference to MI5, the CIA and Mossad. You can extend that to the owners if you like.

"Do people still buy this rag?" Suggest that the newspaper is rapidly runnng out of customers because of its wicked and perverse editorial policy, probably dictated in London. Declare that you grew up as a child reading the paper, but it has gone downhill so fast that you will never buy it again and even your dear auld rheumy-eyed faither has stopped buying it. You do not need to say that you have never bought a single copy since the internet made that un-necessary.

Attack the personalities of the oppposition. Remember, personal attacks are entirely acceptable and indeed desirable. The leader of the opposition is always to be referred to as "Bendy Wendy". A full lexicon of abusive terms will be circulated shortly.

But if anyone else uses the expression "Fishheid McMoonface" to describe Alex, we must complain bitterly. And it goes without saying that any even mildly critical reference to Mister Souter must be attacked without quarter.

6

Ard Righ,

The Rock Of Edinburgh 17/04/2008 00:32:34
4 I prefer Chun Tzu. In the human sense.
7

subrosa,

17/04/2008 00:36:31
# 7

If you must practice your typing could you make the content relevant to the article.
8

,

17/04/2008 00:39:32
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
9

Ard Righ,

The Rock Of Edinburgh 17/04/2008 00:40:05
Take away all Westmincers toys for four hundred years and see how they like it.

The oppressed becomes the oppressor?

They really are shoiting themselves, where is the revenue going? Where are our colonial thefts going? Where are our own backsides?

Independence is the road to Gross National Happiness G.N.P.


not looking forward to the hangover mind.........
10

Fifi la Bonbon,

17/04/2008 00:49:29
I'm not AM2, I'm fifi la bonbon, and I've been here for quite some time - google my name to see the fruits of my wisdom - especially the day I innocently asked what a cyber-nat was and learned a lesson.
11

Ard Righ,

The Rock Of Edinburgh 17/04/2008 00:49:31
"Fishheid McMoonface"

Captain Beefheart- "Trout mask replica"

One of the most inspirational albums of popular music, for musicians only......



12

Ard Righ,

The Rock Of Edinburgh 17/04/2008 00:51:17
Bendy Wendy the rubber puppet.......

Potential kink sales there....?
13

Andrew BOD,

Aberdeen/shire 17/04/2008 00:53:02
7 Fifi La Fluff

1. Very naive.
Most newspapers have an editorial policy that follows a political party or persuasion

2. Un-original
A repeat

3. Isolated.
Not many unionist posters 'cos they're embarrassed by their current leadership

4. Two-faced
You start off with a collective demeaning term and you accuse others of name-calling

5. Stereotyping wrongly.
Many posters don't entirely agree with LIT and have said so, but still applaud the Scottish Government on it's performance so far

6. Irrelevant.
Another unionist who has joined the thread just to portray his anti-SNP views and make no comment about the article

7. Negativity
See 6 above - Usual form of attack

I COULD GO ON, BUT YOU GET THE POINT.


14

,

17/04/2008 00:53:39
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
15

Fifi la Bonbon,

17/04/2008 00:55:46
#1,2,3,4,5,6,8,especially 9,10,11,12,14,15,16,17 - too close to home, I think! How did you come to join the cyber-nat club?
16

Andrew BOD,

Aberdeen/shire 17/04/2008 00:59:20
FIFI

Care to comment on the article?
17

Alan Reid,

NZ 17/04/2008 00:59:40
Scotland will not be first among equals....says it all really, so no news there.
18

,

17/04/2008 01:00:59
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
19

Fifi la Bonbon,

17/04/2008 01:00:59
# 17 - I'm afraid I don't have his dedication, energy and capacity for banging his head against a brick wall. Since the cyber-nats' tactic is to occupy space and not actually engage in debate I prefer just to mock from the sidelines. I do think there's a lot of trutb in my post #7, though and I hope that people enjoy it.
20

subrosa,

17/04/2008 01:05:33
# 12 Spook

Thanks for the advice and I'll do that in future. I actually got to line 2 before I got bored.
21

Richardinho,

17/04/2008 01:10:53
It has been suggested that a big reason for the popularity of the SNP government, and the recent increase in support for independence, is the fact that Westminster constantly seeks to attack and undermine Scotland and Scottish interests, whilst the SNP shows itself to defend them.

This is yet another case of that;


"The JMC is part of the devolution settlement – it does not exist to undermine it. What it will expose is the narrowness of the claims and pomposity of the posturing of Executive ministers."

You really couldn't make it up,unless you were an SNP scriptwriter, and even then you'd probably dismiss it as 'fanciful'- The Westminster govt coming out and stating quite clearly that their sole purpose in creating this body is not to solve disputes, but to undermine the Scottish government.

priceless!
22

Ard Righ,

The Rock Of Edinburgh 17/04/2008 01:12:47
21 onionists,

Is that the Will Self onionist cult worship ?
23

Richardinho,

17/04/2008 01:13:04
'She also sneered at the SNP's biggest achievement, the council tax freeze, which she said was worth 71p a week to the average household, "less than a naan bread".'

Not bad for a tax freeze though, eh Wendy, that it actually CUTS taxes? And better than the 100% increase in taxes your party has foisted on many hard working families and single people.
24

Senga Jean,

17/04/2008 01:13:10
I remember now "Fifi la Bonbon" was the name of the foul smelling skunk in "Tom and Jerry" cartoons and I claim first cybernet prize. Fred Quimby never left the planet.
25

Andrew BOD,

Aberdeen/shire 17/04/2008 01:13:24
FIFI LA BONBON YOU ARE A DISGRACE

You have occupied space on the thread without actually engaging in relevant debate. Something you accused everyone else of doing @ 01:00:59.
26

Ard Righ,

The Rock Of Edinburgh 17/04/2008 01:16:54
12 I find the same weesh whoosh method is good for onion is best, highland mighty, Alfred Neuman, AM2, Geoff SA, Kimba and all others of a blind approach to realism or truth or indeed intrgrity.
27

Richardinho,

17/04/2008 01:20:44
'And Mr Murphy denied he was worried that Mr Salmond would use the joint ministerial committee system as an opportunity to grandstand.'

Here's the issue as I see it;

love him or hate him, vote for him or not, Alex Salmond is still OUR First Minister. As such, we in Scotland expect him to be treated with respect when he goes abroad. He is representing Scotland, hence any insult to him is an insult to all of us.

The labour party really do themselves no favours with this attitude, and certainly not when the SNP government is more than ready to stand up for itself.

Will they ever learn?
28

,

17/04/2008 01:29:55
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
29

GalacticCannibal,

Murrieta; . CA.....a place in the Sun 17/04/2008 01:55:55
Scotland will not be first among equals
----------------------------------------

And who may I ask are Scotland's equals, and based on what ?
In a contest with England, Scotland would stand not shoulder to shoulder but shoulder to ankle.

So who are Scotland's equals.
who else is in the Ankle Brigade ?

Happy dreamers Day dudes.

GC

30

,

17/04/2008 02:05:47
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
31

Conan the Librarian™,

17/04/2008 02:23:52
36
Miss H
Apparently it is now your turn to be fakied by this sad, if not mentally disturbed, Unionist onanist.
The style is somewhat the same from when he mildly annoyed Ayrshire Scot™ and Methelions.
35
Are you basing the equality on numbers Galcan?
If that is the case your homeland stands about knee high to your beloved China.
1,321,851,888 China
301,139,947 Usa

Happy hotdog day dude.
32

,

17/04/2008 03:03:18
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
33

An Beal Bacht,

17/04/2008 04:26:40
Fifi la Bonbon = Ciderman = Dain Bramage.

View him here!

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=162963418
34

KampungHighlander,

Jakarta 17/04/2008 04:45:34
"This is not a relationship of equals,"

The meetings will be held in Whitehall with King Broon sitting on a throne on an elevated dias with Mr. Salmond, Mr. Paisley and Mr. Morgan seated on milking stools.
35

KampungHighlander,

Jakarta 17/04/2008 04:49:47
#35 GC

You Americans can't even match the Chinese Executing Prisoners.

The Inhuman League table.
1. China
2. Iran
3. Saudi Arabia
4. Pakistan
5. USA

Boy what nice company you Americans keep.

Happy Lethal Injection Day Dude
36

,

17/04/2008 05:56:07
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
37

brownlie,

17/04/2008 06:43:10
7 Fifi etc

Great posting, Simon!!!

30 Ard Righ

Union is best will be delighted to be classed with Highland Mighty etc etc.

38

Mikey,

17/04/2008 06:52:21
The Labour party and it's supporters have really hit a new low. The fact that some Scots want to see Scotland subsumed doesn't surprise me however.

Fifty years ago, the Labout party under Gaitskill and then Wilosn at least had a reason to trumper their policies. They, as they said often, were fighting for the working man. Whether they won the fight or not is irrelevant. They had that platform and fought on it to no little success, I might add.

Today, Labour is in a mess. Leaderless, rudderless and with no specific platform, they and their supporters rubbish everything and everyone that tries to make this country a better place to live.

Labour is now the party of sleaze and corruption, something I would never have thought possible twenty years ago. They and their supporters see Holyrood not as a national parliament, but as a first dive into the trough, a sort of training session before they can really rip people off in London.

The National Party see thier mission statement as the freedom of Scotland. Labour and their supporters see this as a barrier in front of the trough and will do anything to keep the status quo.

And there's the rub. One party and it's supporters want a free Scotland while the other major party want a subservient North Britain. As a Scot, I know what party I'll be giving my vote to and it won't be the one that supports North Britain!
39

McGinty,

17/04/2008 06:59:46
"This is not a relationship of equals," he said. "John Swinney (the finance minister] is dealing with the Treasury of the United Kingdom.

Would they have said such things to Ian Paisley, or Martin MacGuiness or Gerry Adams? But then again it's maybe just the rantings of some sad hack.
40

Richard Taylor,

Aberdeen 17/04/2008 07:16:28
So much for the union (small u) being a "merger of equals"....EQUALS MY @ss!
41

malkster,

Scotland 17/04/2008 07:35:21
#47

The only part of the Union not represented is England. it is not ameeting of equals it is a meeting of departments of the UK Government with their bosses the majority of whom are Scottish.
42

Conan,

Honduras 17/04/2008 08:00:53
Its totally unimportant what the self-vested corrupt 'experts' say. The reality is that an Independent Scotland would work wonders on the PEOPLE of Scotland and in my opinion it would only be a matter of time before all of Europe looked to Scotland as a shining example of how great great can be when the shackles (of English domination) are removed. Gangforrit!
43

Draco Was a Wimp,

Edinburgh 17/04/2008 08:01:53
#48 Malkster

Exactly. Not one mention of the poor old English. No wonder they're p**sed off. The nationalist parties are going to get what they want by default.
44

McX,

17/04/2008 08:09:55
'WENDY Alexander yesterday attacked SNP "broken promises" and cuts ahead of the party's spring conference this weekend.'


Err didn't they just have a spring conference in Aviemore...or did I imagine that?



'She also sneered at the SNP's biggest achievement, the council tax freeze, which she said was worth 71p a week to the average household, "less than a naan bread".'

Wow how offensive is that on so many levels? She's offending those who welcome an average of £36.92 off their yearly council tax, the Scottish government which she will never lead and the manufacturers, distributors and consumers of Naan bread.

Och well I suspect Simon Pia chose Naan bread as the WENDY is known to be able to consume an entire Naan bread sideways.
45

Linda,

Edinburgh 17/04/2008 08:29:39
Scotsman is a day behind Daily Telegraph on this story which says something about Scotsman's ability to keep with the news these days.

Wendy Alexander should know that much of SNPs manifesto
was predicated on Scotland receiving the same level of block grant as when Labour was the beneficiary.

That it has been cut at a time North Sea Oil is pouring record funds into the UK Treasury highlights the need for financial and political independence.

46

Stepford Nat,

17/04/2008 08:31:48
Fifi

It's outrageous that you call our esteemed FM Fishheid McMoonface, and sully the reputation of one of our major donors.

Oh, so maybe you're making a joke, but where is your respect for these fine individuals, who can do no wrong. Indeed FM has been described ON THESE VERY PAGES as the greatest living scot who ever drew breadth, so you must be a unionist and therefore incapable of being correct. Shame on you.

www.snp.org We put the rant in tolerant
47

tomias,

Edinburgh 17/04/2008 08:44:36
Demockcrasy!
48

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

Edinburgh 17/04/2008 09:04:03
Strange that whatever happened to the Union of equals??
Is this the official confirmation that England in fact IS in charge of the union then??
49

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

Edinburgh 17/04/2008 09:06:23
51

Maybe somebody should have reminded her that It would be worth more if Labour hadnt taken away the 10p rate.
50

Stepford Nat,

17/04/2008 09:07:00
55 Cybernat

Yes - England is in charge, with the wannabee cockneys G Brown and A Darling at the helm.

www.snp.org - don't you fee oppressed?
51

Alan B,

17/04/2008 09:15:34
I really amazed in this country in this day and age we could have a government acting such a vindictive manor. Labour really are the lowest of the low. What i find so disheartening is not the fact that brown has completely lost the plot but his own colleague don't turn round and tell him this is a democracy and to start acting in a grown up manner.

He really does seem to want to punish scotland for not voting labour.

Look at the council tax rebate. Labour creates the scottish parliament, grants it power over local government finance but when an opposition party tries to use that power, does not argue the merits or otherwise of the alternative, but tries to withhold scotland's share of the money.

Then Barnett formula means scotland get money depending on spending on england, so brown spends extra in england and then tries to withhold scotland share.
52

Miss H,

17/04/2008 09:32:21
'This is not a relationship of equals'.

It's going to be interesting to see how Labour in Scotland defend this because you can bet that SNP MSPs and MPs will use that quote from now until 2011.

How do you justify not being equal? It's going to be a challenge to say the least!

53

,

17/04/2008 09:34:56
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
54

Alan B,

17/04/2008 09:35:02
#58 Rulesbutnotrulers

"The Scottish National Front, er, Party, has nothing worthwhile to offer that a well reconstructed Union can't."

Pathetic and immature jibe about the National Front.

Can u try to actually put an argument together to justify why a reconstructed Union would work.

As u admit the union as is, is not working and promote a federal solution. Problem is we waited 17 yr of the tories (thatcherism) running scotland down and denying us a parliament with a centralise uk. Now we have the mess we have. How much longer do we have to wait for a federal solution. The fact is it is not on the table from the big 2 parties that will actually get into power in uk election.

As such the choice is the mess we have not or independence. The unionist parties only have discussed this review when they lost power, not when the actually had the confidence of the people.

Right of the bat, i could name a list of things independence would give that a federal solution would not.
1)fiscal autonomy (eu law means that that would not happen, it is not allowed for differing corporation taxes within member states).
2)freedom to choose the most appropriate currency for scotland; i would support the euro. this will not happen unless england decide to go for it.
3)scottish membership of the eu, so that it can put scottish interest first.
4)a defence policy that does not include nuclear weapons if the people of scotland do not want them. (add in wars etc)

A confederal solution may work ie a sovereign scotland a member of the uk, but even then u have to work out for what purpose.

Even if u go for a very decentralise form of federalisation (remember what we have is a form already), it would mean shared currency, defence and foreign policy and eu membership. U really need to justify why these would be a good thing.
55

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 17/04/2008 09:43:25
Sounds to me like Westminster have already under-mined the JMC with their pompous utterings.
56

,

17/04/2008 09:44:21
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
57

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 17/04/2008 09:47:14
Wow, how did this paragraph get past the sub-editor?

"The minister for parliamentary business, Bruce Crawford, said: "Labour lost their first election in Scotland for 50 years because of their negativity, total lack of ideas and silly attacks on the SNP - one year on and they have clearly learned nothing."
58

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 17/04/2008 09:48:18
Does Wendy not realise how stupid she sounds?
59

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 17/04/2008 09:51:53
#7 d i c k h e a d
60

Arfur,

17/04/2008 09:53:05
"This is not a relationship of equals,"

This is why support for independance is going up by the day.

As for that spluttering idiot bendy wendy. Slating the freeze??????? Her Labour government increased it by 100%. Stupid bint.
61

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 17/04/2008 09:57:59
#30 Agreed, except for Alfred Neuman. He is always worth having a pop at. He of the low-self-esteem brigade.

It's so much fun watching him apologise for merely existing
62

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 17/04/2008 10:06:56
Wendy, your opinion of Scotland is so low. My opinion of you is even lower (if that is at all possible).
63

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 17/04/2008 10:10:12
#51 Don't be so cruel to Wendy. It's not her fault that she has a gigantic, rubbery mooth......
64

FS,

Stirling 17/04/2008 10:16:36
Westminster would be foolish to continue to treat Holyrood like some sort of town council as it seems to have in the past. They're not dealing with their lackies anymore and the new Scots government can provide Westminster with real problems should WM try to prevent it from governing effectively.

As for Wendy Alexander, she should get some policies instead of bleating about "broken promises". She's brought nothing to the political scene since last May except illegal donations and annoying soundbites.
65

malkster,

Scotland 17/04/2008 10:19:14
What is the issue with this story. the devolved assemblies/parliaments are subordiante to westminster end of. The only people who should be complaining are the English as they do not have anyone looking out for them specifically.
66

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 17/04/2008 10:26:28
#58 Rules

How would a federal system save the union?
67

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 17/04/2008 10:34:00
#59 Alan

It's unfair to blame Gordon Brown for his behaviour. He is ill and cannot help himself. He is a sociopath and nothing we say or do will change his behaviour. He is fundamentally unsuited to public office and is unable to use power in an appropriate way. I am deadly serious and am not simply having a cheap shot at him.

Here are the symptoms:

- Contemptuous of those who seek to understand them
- Does not perceive that anything is wrong with them
- Authoritarian
- Secretive
- Paranoid
- Only rarely in difficulty with the law, but seeks out situations where their tyrannical behavior will be tolerated, condoned, or admired
- Conventional appearance
- Goal of enslavement of their victim(s)
- Exercises despotic control over every aspect of the victim's life
- Has an emotional need to justify their crimes and therefore needs their victim's affirmation (respect, gratitude and love)
- Ultimate goal is the creation of a willing victim
- Incapable of real human attachment to another
- Unable to feel remorse or guilt
- Extreme narcissism and grandiose
- May state readily that their goal is to rule the world
68

unbiased,

Nairn 17/04/2008 10:38:38
Interstellarmince - why the history lesson a great many of us on this thread lived though it - have you just had your first political lecture
69

Shireman,

Kilspindie 17/04/2008 10:44:42
Maybe I'm daft, but I understood that the reason student fees are still not scrapped was because Labour, Liberal and Tory all voted against it. In fact that will be the main reason our minority government fails to get a lot of legislation through the parliament.
So for Bendy to quote this as failure seems a bit hypocritical really, or am I daft?
70

Alan B,

17/04/2008 10:50:23
#77 malkster

"What is the issue with this story. the devolved assemblies/parliaments are subordiante to westminster end of."

The idea of devolution is to split power between central parliaments and regional ones eg germany with it landers. There is a big problem when the central parliament tries to subvert the democratic wishes of the devolved parliament. It is not a case that the central parliament can at will override the wishes of the devolved parliament is areas where these powers have been devolved.

The problem here is we have a prime minister in a central parliament vindictively using his powers to punish the devolved parliament for voting for an alternative party and vision for scotland.

How would u realisticly say this should be resolved. Look at the 2 recent issues.

1)the scottish parliament has devolved power over local government taxation. the central government is trying to stop the devolved parliament from implementing a devolved matter.
a) We have the treasury declaring lit illegal, when it is the remit of the preciding officer in scotland to decide if it is within the remit of the scottish parliament (ie wether the lit has to be locally set). The treasury should not be interfering with a matter of law in an area not in its remit.
b)The central parliament is trying to withhold scotlands share of the money (council tax rebate) if the devolved parliament uses it power to change the local government tax (something that is devolved).

2)the funding arrangements for the devolved parliament means that scotland gets a share of money spent in england. the central government is trying to withhold money due to the devolved parliament.


71

malkster,

Scotland 17/04/2008 10:53:58
#84

i am not agreeing with westminster but simply pointing out that they are right. It is not a meeting of equals.
72

BrianHill,

Edinburgh 17/04/2008 10:54:37
SCOTLAND WILL NOT BE FIRST AMONG EQUALS.

Let's face it Scotland isn't even an equal as it stands right now.

And therein lies the crux of this matter does it not? If we are content for Scotland to remain subservient, ever grateful to play the role of 'lapdog' in a bigger production, then we support the status quo.

However, if we would like Scotland join the 'equals' like Denmark, Norway, Ireland, Iceland....the list is endless, then we vote for Independence.
73

Alan B,

17/04/2008 10:56:00
#79 connaughtboy

I think u are correct in ur analysis of Brown. It is sad but also scarey that his colleagues allow him to continue. The pressure of wanting power so much has taken its toll and i think he has gone the way of thatcher in the end.
74

European Scot,

17/04/2008 11:01:35
77 Malkster

" What is the issue with this story. the devolved assemblies/parliaments are 'subordiante' to westminster end of.

It would seem that you are quite happy to accept Scotland's parliament being subordinate to Westminster ?
I think you'll find that ever increasing numbers of people are no longer prepared to put up with that kind of arrangement.
They don't like the idea of their country being run from the Capital city of another country.
Quite a few people used to to feel the same way about Moscow.
State control, State broadcaster, one sided media, etc.
Different type of Union, different countries involved, but same type of controls.
No thank you !
75

,

17/04/2008 11:04:56
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
76

Edward,

17/04/2008 11:25:18
Where's :
AM2
Highland Mghty
Royster
Media1
for the sake of my amusement I would love to hear their take on this
77

,

17/04/2008 11:33:21
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
78

Edward,

17/04/2008 11:41:36
Scary picture of door to door campaigning from the Telegraph
http://tinyurl.com/5no5bs

(appropriate url by the way)
The comments are very funny
such as 'We think we've found your lost luggage', "Hello, we were wondering how you felt about the abolition of the 10p tax band.....?"

79

,

17/04/2008 11:49:32
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
80

It's me!,

17/04/2008 12:19:53
Labour will regret their arrogance. Gordon, Wendy, Douglas etc are not doing their constituents a lot of good.
81

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

Edinburgh 17/04/2008 12:28:28
57

Ah that may explain why they are doing everything they can to sabotage the Union.
Revuing the Barnett formula to favour England to win Labour votes down South.
Admitting the Union is not a union of equals.
Picking fights with the Scottish Parliament.
Refusing to prosecute their members caught breaking the law.
Supporting a tax regime seen by the majority as unpalatable.
Undermining Scottish government policy by withholding funds belonging to Scotland.
Increacing the Tax burden on the poorest and coincidently the majority of voters.
Giving 60Bn pounds worth of NHS contracts to the PFI.

Can these two really be fifth columnists at the heart of the UK establishment?? I am starting to wonder.
82

Doh,

17/04/2008 12:34:00
#82 Jackie,

Have to disagree with you - a federal UK is what this country needs.

Despite your assertions we have much more in common with England, 300 years of political union for a start.

We all sit down to watch Dr Who or the Apprentice and dont feel that different from our English neighbours.
I knwo John Swinney is a big fan of Corrie, not for me of course.

However our economic and social ties with England are manifest - for example English students in Scotland, English companies operating in Scotland and Scottish workers living in England.

Oh and vice versa.

These are reasons enough to continue our political cooperation with England.

A federation is a great liberal idea.
83

ochone,

Sauchie, Clack's 17/04/2008 12:38:28
It's to be hoped that the Telegraph article is rubbish, but the view expressed with be in keeping with the Westminster’s control freakery, especially as exhibited by Gordon Brown.

It should be remembered that Gordon and Co, with the help of their pals in the Scottish media have taken on the role of opposition to the SNP government because, as even the Scotsman admits now, Wendy and Co and the rest are crap.

What is really interesting is that the spokesperson seems to be saying that this body will be going against it's own existing remit, which can be checked on
http://www.dca.gov.uk/constitution/devolution/jmc.htm.

It would seem that Britannia wishes to wave the rules once again.

This of course can only be to the benefit of the SNP government, but it will be interesting to see how our press report things and what claims the unionist on these pages make in support of the bodies views
84

Angus Ogg,

17/04/2008 12:40:18
#90

Funny how they are all off at the same time.

Could they all be one and the same ?
85

Angus Ogg,

17/04/2008 12:40:29
#5

Hi Spook,

Hope you are well, and had a good birthday.

As a spook, you of all people should know how :@)

The Key to number 108 is on today's Ferry ? ? ?

Signed.....

Angus 00G
Licensed to Thrill (Sheep)
86

Scientific Method,

Edinburgh 17/04/2008 12:45:22
#95 interstellarmince
"I was quoting from David Icke's, '... and the truth will set you free'."

The same David Icke who claimed he was the second coming, that the royal family are actually lizards from another dimension wearing human form suits and that voices from interstellar sources provide much of the gibberish he puts in his books.
87

European Scot,

17/04/2008 13:00:33
97 Doh

Federal doesn't put Scotland in the United Nations.
Federal doesn't put Scotland at the European table.
Federal keeps Scotland vote-less, and voiceless.
Federal keeps Scotland as a part of the UK, not as a country with international recognition as a nation in its own right.
Federal doesn't do !
Independence does !
88

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

Edinburgh 17/04/2008 13:15:24
97

So how do you feel about a federation of Europe??
89

John PM,

Edinburgh 17/04/2008 13:16:45
I think this perfectly illustrates the weakness of the union. The headline is right Scotland will never be first amongst equals until we vote for independence.

If BritGov won't play the game on their own committees then the SNP should tell them to get stuffed.
90

Willie Macleod,

Wick 17/04/2008 13:23:18
#5 Spook The answer to your question is at #34 on the GPs longer hours thread.
91

Edward,

17/04/2008 13:26:56
#99 Angus Ogg
makes you think that they are all related, it cant be coincidence that there all not on here at the same time
92

kimba,

17/04/2008 13:31:00
Slightly off topic,but hard luck Rangers,you'll get them next time,but it was great to see all the union flags.
93

kimba,

17/04/2008 13:33:59
90. dosnea take much to amuse you!
94

Alan B,

17/04/2008 13:49:02
Doh: The problem when u say we need a federal solution is that devolution mean we already have a federal solution. ie Central parliament and regional parliament. So if u are going to put forward ur federal solution u would actually have to say how it would work and what powers would go where.

A federal uk meant to the lib dems assemblies/parliaments within england. The problem here is england does not want to be regionalised in this way. The north east assemble was rejected. So federalism in this way is a none starter and also outside scotlands control.

A federal uk where england has a parliament and then have westminster as a much reduced central parliament is also outside our control as that is up to england to want that. And from a a scottish perspective will not mean any change.

As such the only thing i can really imagine u mean that is within the control of scotland to achieve is dev max. As such u would be really just arguing for more devolution.

Also if u want powers retained by a central uk parliament u have to say which ones and for what reason. Ur reasoning is so vague. Parliaments have powers for a purpose and u should try to justify why powers would be better pooled. U seem to have vague idea that we should have some sort of union but not sure what.

For instance.

1) If it is in scotlands interests to join the euro, and if the public are persuaded of the case, why should scotland not join becuase it is unsellable in england.

2)given that england tend to vote tory and scotland do not. what is the advantage in scotland having pulled powers run by a politcal party with no representation in scotland, where scotland has rejected these policies at the ballot box.
95

Arfur,

17/04/2008 13:50:20
numbers 102, 103, 104 - i eat a curry last night with my australian friend while drinking a vodka. should we have a union with India, Australia and Russia as well?

what about a world union and when aliens come we can have a union with them.
96

Geoff,

sa 17/04/2008 13:58:49
108 Kimba-yes never easy to swallow a loss to the green and whites but great to see the flags! Life in the Union yet. By the way guys, the Northern White Rhino story is much more interesting than this lot!
And Foulkes-ta for ur comment the other day-wasnt able to reply as the wife dragged me off to bed....
97

Geoff,

sa 17/04/2008 14:00:15
111 Arfur-world Union would be good but might spoil the Olympics!
98

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

Edinburgh 17/04/2008 14:04:16
112

Eh? cant remember so many comments on so many blogs.
Wish I wis being paid like the trolls.
99

Arfur,

17/04/2008 14:05:27
113 - at least we would always win gold.
100

Tweedmouth,

Coldstream 17/04/2008 14:14:22
#49 - Conan
"It would only be a matter of time before all of Europe looked to Scotland as a shining example of how great great can be when the shackles (of English domination) are removed."

Er . . have you looked at the UK government at any time since 1997? Tony Blair - Scottish; Robin Cook - Scottish; Gordon Brown - Scottish, Alastair Darling - Scottish; Douglas Alexander - Scottish - Des Browne - Scottish, John Reid - Scottish. These are the people who illegally invaded Iraq, sold off the UK's gold reserves at half their value, broke their manifesto pledge on a referendum over the European Constitution (Lisbon lies), fostered the greatest Public Debt in British history and ruined the healthiest economy in Europe. That's what Scots in government do. It's not Scotland that's dominated by England - it's the poor bloody Uk that's being destroyed by the tartan Mafia. Alexa Salmond is just a smaller, weaker version of Gordon Brown.
101

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 17/04/2008 14:14:54
Anyone else has an email from the Scotland on Sunday Editor re the poll-that-never-was. apologies if someone else has already posted it. Looks like they didn't like the result so they censored it. Personally I'm quite annoyed that I wasted my time filling the bliddy thing in.

Here's the email:

"Dear Scotsman.com user,
Last week, we sent you a list of questions about the performance of the SNP government one year on from the party's historic election victory, with a view to publishing the results in Scotland on Sunday. I would like to thank the 2,000 people who responded to the questionnaire and I would like to explain why I chose not to publish the results.

Unfortunately, less than 24 hours after e-mailing the questions to all scotsman.com registered users in Scotland, I was informed that a member of the SNP's press team had circulated an e-mail encouraging members of his party to take part in the survey. In my view, this action jeopardised the integrity of the poll, and I took the decision not to run the results.

I can only apologise, and hope that you will continue to support online polls run by this newspaper.


Regards


Les Snowdon
Editor
Scotland on Sunday"

102

Geoff,

sa 17/04/2008 14:26:38
A very telling sentence in the opening paragraphs of this article Paul Murphy working out...ground rules of the committee comprising the UK,Scots,Welsh and N.Irish governments!! What about the English?? Therin lies the rub aye..the biggest threat to the Union comes not so much from Scottish Nationalism but from the absurd situation in which there is no English Parliament!
103

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 17/04/2008 14:42:37
#97 Doh

Dr Who and Corro are good reasons to stay part of the Union? Is that your great point for today? Sheeeez!!
104

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 17/04/2008 14:45:04
We are all equal, it's just that England is more equal than everyone else.
105

Geoff,

sa 17/04/2008 14:45:37
120 Jackie-what the English think of Gordon brown as Prime Minister has little or nothing to do with him being Scots-they dislike him cause they see him as incompetent. As for the UK Parliament being the "English" Parliament-simply not true. It has to act as an ad hoc English Parliament because the English have no assembly of their own. Obviously English MP,s are numerically superior but they vote on Party -not nationality lines. Your comment is I am afraid to say,typical Nat spin. Also Inasmuch as there exists ANY resent toward Brown for his Scottishness, it derives almost entirely from Englands very justifiable anger at having no forum for English only matters.
106

,

17/04/2008 14:49:22
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
107

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 17/04/2008 14:50:40
I have it on good authority from a family member in Lochgelly that support for Broon is ebbing away fast. This family member has been a big fan of his for very many years and is utterly scandalised by his recent performance and behaviour.

She thinks he has gone cuckoo!
108

Queen D,

Glasgow 17/04/2008 15:21:22
Connaughtboy, I hope you e-mailed them back to ask them to PUBLISH the e-mail, since I understood that they had it in their possession.
Apart from the fact that I don't believe them and that they were procrastinating because the result was NOT to their liking, I too, took the time to fill the damned thing in .
109

kimba,

17/04/2008 15:22:22
118,GEOFF. Some of us in England are campaigning through the English Democrats to put that situation right.
110

kimba,

17/04/2008 15:26:25
125. Very well said,wonder if Scotland would stand for what we in England have to stomach day after day!
111

European Scot,

17/04/2008 15:27:31
125 Geoff

" Also Inasmuch as there exists ANY resent toward Brown for his Scottishness, it derives almost entirely from Englands very justifiable anger at having no forum for English only matters. "

There is truth and irony in your comments.
It's inevitable that there is some resentment in England, due to the fact that there is no representation of English only matters at Westminster.
Whereas for others, there are devolved areas with separate, albeit for the moment, limited Parliament / Assemblies.
The real irony is that all of this is being overseen in an historically English parliament building.
We have a very British Brown, desperate to lose his Scottish accent, and who would hardly be regarded as Scottish by many of the electorate in Scotland, running the show from Westminster.
We are in a messy situation, and the cleanest solution is Independence.
The English parliament of Westminster should be running England.
Holyrood, running Scotland.
Both in Europe.
112

kimba,

17/04/2008 15:29:35
131. Jeez spooky,all salmond was doing was making a t-t out of himself,can't see him having tea at the white house.
113

Janis *,

london 17/04/2008 15:51:29

Jackie Priest @ 134. "Brown is unpopular because he is a Scot".....That is a rubbish generalization. Brown is being criticised for dithering. his birthplace has nothing to do with it. For goodness sake last year we had Blair (Scots born, Scots surname) Ming Campbell (preceeded by Kennedy) & Brown as party leaders, does that sound like a prejudice against Scots? If Cameron is put down it's as a "Tory Eton Toff "not as someone with a Scots surname.

I have been canvassing (for Labour Party) for many years , it's the West Lothian question that pi**es the English off.
114

Ken S.,

Reading 17/04/2008 15:52:23
An interesting bit in the Spectator to infuriate or please you, depending on your standpoint!

"Alex Salmond is nudging the English towards independence without them realising it"

http://www.spectator.co.uk/the-magazine/the-week/615231/alex-salmond-is-nudging-the-english-towards-independence-without-them-realising-it.thtml
115

Ken S.,

Reading 17/04/2008 15:57:43
#139 Janis
Hello again! Nice to see you're still at it.

As to your particular point, I wish it could be accepted by posters that "Scottish MPs" etc was shorthand for MPs of Scottish constituencies, even if they happen not to be Scots themselves. Conversely a Scottish-born chap or chapess representing a constituency in England would be an "English MP".
116

Janis *,

london 17/04/2008 16:05:25

Hi Ken S !! (from Islington North?) Is that forum of 3000+ still on record?

Interesting to find out how many English persons represent Scottish constituencies and vice versa, does anyone know?



117

John S,

17/04/2008 16:12:10
#140 Ken S., That article made interesting reading.
Quote:Scotland’s welfare problem is more deeply ingrained and its slow rate of economic growth has dragged down the British growth rate for 13 of the last 15 years.The proceeds of this higher growth could be used to better distribute funds within England. Unquote
This begs these questions:- Why if Scotland hase been such a drain on English resources for so long, why didn't they kick us out years ago ?
Why is the UK Parliament desperate to keep Scotland in the UK ?
118

Doh,

17/04/2008 16:13:13
#97 Jackie

Sorry you dont convince me and I dont accept we have more in common with Ireland than with England. We have not been in an political union with Ireland for the last 300 years for a start.

I dont accept that our economy has suffered for being part of the union. Quite the opposite in fact. I have no burning desire to turn most of the companies operating in Scotland into foreign companies.

You may think we have very little influence over British policy but I would imagine we would have even less over purely English policy.

#110 Alan


There is no need for England to regionalised, in fact better that England and Scotland are nations within the federal union with equal powers. Both nations submitting the same powers to the UK authority.

Fiscal autonomy sounds like a good starting point for a more federal system.

As for your point about the Euro - personally I think it would be better if the UK joined the Euro but it would be bad for Scotland if Scotland joined the Euro and England retained the pound.

I wouldnt imagine that RBS, our largest company, would find that a very comfortable situation. Very much in bed with an elephant.

There is no point pretending that the last 300 years havent happened, I am proposing federalism based upon where we are today.
119

Janis *,

london 17/04/2008 16:13:26

Spook (142)... like many English persons I think Independence is inevitable, but still regretable & sad. Won't you all be a little miffed in Scotland if Independence is voted this side of border first? :-)
120

Janis *,

london 17/04/2008 16:27:00

Sorry Jackie Priest (144) Scottish Mafia" is a term typically used by Daily Mail & Telegraph bloggers & really not representative. Just as I hope Ard Righ, Guga , Jimmy the Pie etc. are not representative of SNP supporters on these forums.

Our local Labour party had a couple of Scots out canvassing with us last nite (for Ken Livingstone) I don't remember them saying they came across anti-Scottishness 'cos of their accent.
121

Ken S.,

Reading 17/04/2008 16:28:02
#143
Wotcha Janis,
I bookmarked that nationhood debate thread, sentimental old fool that I am. However, when I try it now, it just produces today's page. Maybe something to do with Hootsmon's website change in the meantime?

Islington??!!!
'Ornsey, m'girl, 'Ornsey -- now part of 'Aringey.

Long since departed to pastures new; currently in a constituency represented by a Turkish/American, who stands a chance of ousting your Red Ken next month.



122

kimba,

17/04/2008 16:34:23
Janis. You do realise that " lets celebrate every countries patron saints day except good oid Englands" Livingstone is going to get his butt kicked.
123

European Scot,

17/04/2008 16:39:53
141 Ken S

Hello again Ken S
The Spectator ? !
Fancy you reading Boris Johnson's old rag !
Well there's nothing like a bit of fiction for a bit of light relief !
So what are your lot doing about organising a decent leader with some street cred on the streets of England ?
We may have to do this Independence thing alone, but it would be so much faster if you could give us some assistance from the Shires, or ' Ornsey.
We could create a pincer movement between us, and finish the job off nicely.
You'll have to improve on the likes of Gary Bushell though.
Gary and Alex, Dover cliffs and Camembert !
124

Janis *,

london 17/04/2008 16:41:41

Ken S (151).. Unfortunately I think your Russian/American MP might well succeed. Maidenhead eh, posh! It's a beautiful evening tho' so must go off & doo my best for Ken. L ....cheers!
125

Miss H,

17/04/2008 16:42:09
150 If it is any consolation to you Janis our SNP branch has a couple of members originally from London who are among our most stalwart activists.

It's not about confrontation. I lived in London myself for 10 years which is why I donated to Ken Livingstone's campaign before and reading your post has reminded me to go onto his website and make another donation for this campaign. Best of luck to you.
126

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

Edinburgh 17/04/2008 16:42:31
146

You dont think that at least since oil was discovered in the 70s that Scotlands economy hasnt suffered???
Then you are simply in denial.
You would have to beleive that unionist myth about the Scottish subsidy to believe that rubbish.

Why on earth would we want influence over English policies when we dont want them to have influence over ours??? yer no making sense there at all.

The whole problem with Scotland being in this union is the fact that IT ISNT EQUAL!!!!! it is completely and totally dominated by the largest nation by a factor of 12 in Scotlands case. We are an ethnic minority within the UK but we are a NATION of people within Scotland.

""As for your point about the Euro - personally I think it would be better if the UK joined the Euro but it would be bad for Scotland if Scotland joined the Euro and England retained the pound.""

???????

How can you post this and at the same time argue we are equal within the UK???????????

Federalism?? Ok what powers should we have and what powers should we hand over to a foreign nation and why dont all countries federalise????
Should the UK federalise within Europe do you think???
127

Janis *,

london 17/04/2008 16:46:59


Kimba (153)
6 days to go, dust your flag off & enjoy !

Jackie Priest (155) I only agree with your last paragraph.
128

Janis *,

london 17/04/2008 16:48:59

Miss H (157) Thanks & cheers!
129

Alan B,

17/04/2008 16:50:42
Janis : Is that the Ken Livingston that said that london taxes keep scotland in the lifestyle that they are accustomed to.

And it is not the first time. He knows it plays with local voters.

The English Democrats have run an anti scottish campaign in a london mayoral election.
130

Miss H,

17/04/2008 16:53:08
162 He actually changed his position on that one.
131

Janis *,

London 17/04/2008 16:58:01

Alan B (162) Ken retracted that statement, it's only the rest of England (Kimba?) that London & S. East "helps".

The English Democrats will get nowhere.

It's mortgages not the Scots that are engaging our minds at moment.

Really must go!
132

Alan B,

17/04/2008 16:58:10
Doh: I think u missed much of my point.

Take the euro. i am not asking whether u personally want it or think it would be good if england did not join. i am talking about whether it is right that if scotland as a whole think it is right then why should we have the straight jacket of the union and not be allowed to join.

I am suggesting it is silly not to be in a position that we can consider its merit but dependent on england deciding to join which for political reason is not going to happen.

The fact is with currency is sterling has an interest rate too high for the scottish economy and always has. It was made far worse with policies like mirus which were taylor made for the south of england.

u may find many british companies would actually locate in scotland as they want the benefits that having the same currency as most of the rest of the eu.

The euro in england could actually be damaging as the interest rates too low for their economy (southern economy). also given the fact that england has done well economically there is not such a necessity to make political compromises for economic prosperity.

U say start with fiscal autonomy but as i pointed out that may not be legal within the eu.

As such i think u really should consider a confederal arrangement as it would give u the ties with england u want plus the flexibility.
133

Alan B,

17/04/2008 17:02:43
#164 Janis

Ken retracked the remark as it was wrong to say it. But the fact remains he said it. Why? Cause he believes it? Cos he thinks it will play well? He had also said the same thing many times before. I also lived in london for about 7yrs and could see things as portrayed by the evening standard both from ken and others.
134

kimba,

17/04/2008 17:02:48
162. slightly incorrect,the English Democrats have run a anti scottish raj in westminster campaign,this is not a slur on the scottish people in any way.
135

Boggle fey the Bog,

17/04/2008 17:05:11
129 Queen D,Glasgow 17/04/2008 15:21:22

And connaughtboy,stonehaven

I also received that E-mail from Les Snowdon at SoS.

Below is what I posted on Kenny Farquharson's article "Changing the face of the nation" in the SoS.

"Hi Kenny, I read your article yesterday, however I decided to take Eddie Barnes to task ;-).
Your article is a fairly good piece of work (I don't want you to get big-heided), and IMHO reasonably well balanced. Nice Work!!

However in your replies to various posters, you mention that the SNP sent out an E-mail to members(activists) 'to skew the poll'. As a member of the SNP, I can honestly say that I have received no such E-Mail from the SNP, or anyone connected with the SNP.

As a former Auditor, my first question to you concerning that E-mail would be 'Show Me', and as a respected Journo, with the Scotsman, you will have no problem accessing my E-mail address.

I look forward to receiving a copy of aforesaid E-mail from you."

I'm not holding my breath!!!!

Cheers Boggle
136

Alan B,

17/04/2008 17:06:47
#163 Miss H

"He actually changed his position on that one."

I am aware he retracked the remark. (A tory that makes a racist remark and retracks, retracks because of the political stink.) But Ken said it and meant it. He has said the same thing many times before.

In his first election campaign as mayor he was going on about how poor a deal london got at scottish expense.
137

Ken S.,

Reading 17/04/2008 17:08:39
#154 European Scot

I just happen to live in Bo's constituency and it's coincidental that he happened to have edited The Spectator.
Doing my bit for jolly old England consists of having joined the English Democrats
http://www.englishdemocrats.org.uk/
It was an emailed link from them that highlighted the ExSpectorator article.

If ED takes the same length of time to get the bandwagon going as it has taken SNP, then there's a way to go yet, including better PR than putting up a Batman impersonator as candidate for London Mayor!.
Probably be overtaken by events anyway.
Nevertheless I can but support the party with the cause nearest to my view, as gauged against the current realities (given that improvement of the Union has ceased to be a viable option). The amorphous ConLabLibdemative party now has nothing to choose between them on this or any other aspect!
138

Alan B,

17/04/2008 17:09:51
Miss H; if u lived in london for 10yrs u will be aware Trevor Phillips when he was looking to be mayor (the so called anti racist guy) also ran an anti scottish campaign.
139

kimba,

17/04/2008 17:12:17
This from the spectator published today-

Before the campaign for an English parliament has time to gather critical mass, its goal may already be achieved. The first vote David Cameron’s government holds on health will be a unique constitutional event: all Welsh, Scottish and Northern Irish MPs will be banned from the voting lobbies. There is likely to be no fanfare, no regal presence, no Red Arrows as there were in the modern Scottish Parliament’s first sitting. But the Parliament of England — adjourned in October 1707 — will, in effect, be reconvened.

140

kimba,

17/04/2008 17:14:13
Oh and this-What would put rocket boosters under the issue would be reform of England’s financial ties with Scotland. Government figures show a £13 billion annual subsidy from England to Scotland, a figure which Mr Salmond believes is concocted to dampen demand for independence. Scotland, he argues, is really subsidising England. He wants Scotland’s budget to be limited to what it raises in tax, after cutting a deal over North Sea oil. It could be a tremendous deal for whichever country turns out to be right.

141

Alan B,

17/04/2008 17:15:06
#172 Kimba: it a bit more complicated than that. But most scots agree it is unfair that scottish mps can vote on english issues, issues that for scotland have been devolved to the scottish parliament.
142

ochone,

Sauchie, Clack's 17/04/2008 17:22:11
Kimba are you saying that you support the English Democrats and their anti-Scottish racist bile?
143

Boggle fey the Bog,

17/04/2008 17:22:45
167 kimba,17/04/2008 17:02:48

"The amount of money ENGLAND PAY TO SCOTLAND every year Tartan Tax Bombshell" "313.5billion every year of YOUR money goes to bankroll Scotland.
"Taxpayers in London give two and half thousand pounds every year to Scotlan.....To oppose the illegitimate claims of Scotland....and seeks to dicrimante against all Londers on the basis we live in England NOT SCOTLAND.......I am not jewish or Musilim....just an Englishman!!!......on May the 1st vote English "

Not only anti Scottish but anti Jewish and Muslim and Irish to boot.

Not a slur, it's completely anti Scottish, and racist in it's anti Jewish and Muslim stance.

Be gone oaf!

The broadcast is available here for one more day if anyone hasn't already seen it.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/page/item/b009vtg7.shtml?q
144

Alan B,

17/04/2008 17:25:48
#173 Kimba

I think the financial position is something like; scotland is broadly in balance. London subsidises the rest of england considerably.

A uk newsnight review before last yrs scottish election said that scotland deficit was lower than the rest of the uks.

The problem for scotland is not that we are subsidising england but the low economic growth that has come with the union. That inevitably leads to lower tax revenues.

Even if scotland were subsidising england it would be petty cash to such a big economy.

The massive subsidies scotland gave to england were during the 80s. But even here these subsidies meant much more to scotland than england. The question to the tory treasury in the mid nineties said that scotland had subsidised based on uk treasury figure to the tune of 27billion for a period more than a decade. That was worth something like 10p in the pound in income tax in scotland. Worse considering the shape of the economy in the 80s.
145

McX,

17/04/2008 17:26:01
#174 Feeh and tosh Sirrah, I think the English are incapable of managing there own affairs that's why they need the Scots to run their government for them.

I look forward to glorious leader Brown, further dismantling the last vestiges of 'This England' by banning Morris Dancing, the ancient art of gurning, English 'folk' music, Cumbrian wrestling and sausages, last night of the proms, Gypsy baiting, Lord Mayor shows and any renditions of 'Ilkley moor by tat'.
146

McX,

17/04/2008 17:26:43
there = their!
147

Andrew BOD,

Aberdeen/shire 17/04/2008 17:36:17
Kimba says....
"Some of us in England are campaigning through the English Democrats to put that situation right."

Campaigners is not the term I would use for the English Democrats - more like Troublemakers verging on the rascist. The SNP and your lot may seek the same ends, but your method is only a notch or two down from the BNP.

I've seen your party election bigot broadcast. It's disgusting. Here's an excerpt...

"Taxpayers in London give the SCOTS the equivalent of £2500 every year. And what have THEY given us in return? A mayor who belongs to a Scottish-run Government, Gordon (I'm alright JOCK) Brown, deep-fried Mars bars, and Irn Bru."

Like I said, Troublemakers.
148

Boggle fey the Bog,

17/04/2008 17:36:39
178 McX,17/04/2008 17:26:01

Ye no gaun a wee bit tae foar there McX ;-),

Ye stoap aw that an they aw micht tirn tae polatix ;-))
149

Media 1,

cape town 17/04/2008 17:40:00
If only we could get rid of Holyrood and leave the governing to Westminster!
150

puskas,

East kilbride 17/04/2008 17:43:28
No108.. Kimba.

My favourite was the banner pointing to the gers fans....

"Scotlands disgrace"

I have said this before Scotland can only become democratic as a nation when becoming independent.

151

Andrew BOD,

Aberdeen/shire 17/04/2008 17:43:29
182 ANOTHER troublemaker with no relevant view.
152

Saoghal Beag,

17/04/2008 17:44:25
if only we could get rid of westminster adn leave the governing to Holyrood
153

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

Edinburgh 17/04/2008 17:44:46
182

So why did South Africa fight a war of independence with Westminster?? would you like to see SA become a UK colony again??
154

mike3,

midlands 17/04/2008 17:48:54
"But most scots agree it is unfair that scottish mps can vote on english issues, issues that for scotland have been devolved to the scottish parliament."


Such as Scots Labour MPs voting for measures that lead to a worse standard of healthcare for people who live in England compared with their own constituents in Scotland?
155

McX,

17/04/2008 17:51:58
#181 Boggle, if Kimba is representative of what constitutes politics in merry olde England, what fear need their Scottish overlords have?
156

Suomi,

Salo,Finland 17/04/2008 18:02:52
The issue running in this thread is that a regional parliament with limited powers cannot deliver what a fully independant parliament can deliver.The Scottish parliament only manages part of the money raised in Scotland,while The finnish Parliament in Helsinki,controls about 90% of the money raised in Finland.The benefits to the Finns in health care,education,transport and environment etc are self evident.
Independance will not alter the social relationship with England.I agree with Jackie Priest's point that in this modern world we identify with more than one country.My Finnish wife and I have 3 daughters who live in 3 different countries(Scotland,Holland and Finland).I also have a half brother who lives in London.We are very international and consider independance as the norm.The bullying and arrogant behaviour of certain Westminster politicians certainly make a good case for Scotland becoming a normal country within the EU.
157

,

17/04/2008 18:10:24
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
158

Tris,

17/04/2008 18:13:18
"The JMC is part of the devolution settlement – it does not exist to undermine it. What it will expose is the narrowness of the claims and pomposity of the posturing of Executive ministers."


Just remember that these are the 'government' (not executive) ministers that WE VOTED FOR, so it would be a good idea to treat them with some respect. THEY ARE OUR REPRESENTATIVES.



159

Miss H,

17/04/2008 18:13:51
171 I lived in London in the glory days of the GLC before Mrs Thatcher abolished it. That is why I have a soft spot for Ken Livingstone.
160

McX,

17/04/2008 18:21:46
#190 Hola El Drac, que paso?
161

Boggle fey the Bog,

17/04/2008 18:25:08
189 McX,17/04/2008 17:51:58

IMHO absolutely none ;-)

Well chaps, I'm orft down to the jolly old brown bottle shop, for a swift half of bitter, as my old buddy 'Cockney Tel' from Farnborough,Hants would say.

Cheers and catch you all later
162

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 17/04/2008 18:37:26
The English do not understand equality anyway. It is an alien concept to them and is perpetuated through Westminster.

Reality shows that the English are either lords or servants.
163

kimba,

17/04/2008 18:46:23
180.If you weren't so bias you would realise that the speech by matt o'connor was directed at the scottish raj in westminster,not the scottish people.
164

Conan the Librarian™,

17/04/2008 18:47:25
190
How do you find the slot?
165

Ard Righ,

The Rock Of Edinburgh 17/04/2008 18:51:28
150
Janis *,
london 17/04/2008 16:27:00

I can confirm I do not support the SNP I support independence an any (within reason) form attainable for Scotland and Scots, everyone else is on an invite only basis. It not a continent, remember we're an Island.
166

Conan the Librarian™,

17/04/2008 18:52:25
198
An untrue, racist peroration, by an Englishman called O'Connor.
You couldn't make it up.
167

 Ayrshire Scot™,

17/04/2008 18:55:21
199. LOL. nice one.
168

Ard Righ,

The Rock Of Edinburgh 17/04/2008 18:56:40
191
Suomi,
Salo,Finland 17/04/2008

Independence is indeed the norm round the world, parallels to our situation here are few, here is one,

18:02:52http://bellacaledonia.wordpress.com/2008/04/03/the-case-for-cornwall/#more-46
169

Ayrshire Scot'™,

17/04/2008 19:25:02
A sphincter is a structure, usually a circular muscle, that normally maintains constriction of a natural body passage or orifice and which relaxes as required by normal physiological functioning. There are over 40 different sphincters in the human body; some of these sphincters are microscopic in size.

Many sphincters are used every day in the normal course of digestion. For example, the epiglottis is used to seal off the windpipe when swallowing, so as to ensure that no food or liquid enters the lungs. The use of the epiglottis is a typical example of an involuntary action by the body.
170

Ayrshire Scot'™,

17/04/2008 19:27:54
Pruritus ani is a persistent itchy feeling around the anus. It is a common condition in both adults and children. In fact 1 in 20 people will develop it at some stage. Pruritus ani is a symptom, it is not a condition in itself, some of the most common causes are threadworms, haemorrhoids (piles) and fungal infections such as thrush.

If you have a persistent itch and are not sure of the cause it is best to consult your doctor.
171

Conan the Librarian™,

17/04/2008 19:29:06
204
Can you pull yours over your head?
172

Ayrshire Scot'™,

17/04/2008 19:29:15
In 1991, Abd-El-Maeboud and his colleagues published a very important study in The Lancet, based upon their investigation into whether there was some hidden and forgotten knowledge behind the traditional shape of a rectal suppository.

Their research very clearly demonstrated that there was, indeed, a very good reason for the traditional "torpedo" shape; namely, that the shape had a strong influence on the extent to which the rectal suppository travelled internally — and, thus, upon its increased efficacy.

They (counter-intuitively) found that the ideal mode of insertion was to insert suppositories "blunt"-end first, rather than the generally used mode of inserting the "pointy"-end first. This conclusion was based on the greater distance of internal travel of the suppository once inserted, which was entirely a mechanical consequence of the natural actions of the bowel's muscular structure and the rectal configuration.

As a consequence, and in order to guarantee the maximum optimal efficacy, they recommended that all rectal suppositories be inserted "blunt"-end first.
173

McX,

17/04/2008 19:37:33
#204, 5 & 7

Y A W N. Fakies are so funny and add sooooooo much to debate, tell me fakey are you an advocate of bagpiping or wolfbagging? I only ask as you seem to be most expert on the demi-monde of perversion.

Might I humbly suggest that you shop here.


http://tinyurl.com/5gecgy


174

Conan the Librarian™,

17/04/2008 19:45:30
208
McX, Notice he hasn't cut and pasted the Wiki section on the "Sphincter of Oddi".
175

McX,

17/04/2008 19:47:22
#209 That would just confirm that he's a SOD Conanarama.

Do you think he has a paedophile beard and rapist glasses?
176

Conan the Librarian™,

17/04/2008 19:52:21
...And Bill Oddie, strangely enough matches your links protagonist's appearance...
177

McX,

17/04/2008 20:04:44
I don't believe he has the serial killers van, but good call. I reckon former HibbyJambo Paul Hartley bought the paedo beard.
178

,

17/04/2008 20:12:20
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
179

,

17/04/2008 20:12:56
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
180

A Voice From Scotland,

17/04/2008 20:14:38
#152 Spook, that as you have pointed out is a pack of dirty stinking low life unionist lies.

As a fully paid up member of the SNP who gets regular snail and e-mail from them I can vouch for the fact that no such e-mail was received at this address.

The fact is that most SNP members would have been on the poll any way as they are much more intelligent and pc literate than the thick unionist cringer's who show up on this forum.


What the unionist numpties cannot swallow is that Scottish Nationalist politics are the mainstream now in Scotland, and look set to be that way for many years to come.


The result would have been overwhelmingly in favour on the SNP as was evidenced by the Sunday express poll which showed 85% in favour of independence. What a sad desperate rag this has become.
181

Angus Ogg,

17/04/2008 20:16:23
#206 Conan,

Thankyou for that. I was begining to despair about the number of nut jobs that have access to computer keyboards, when I read your post. You restore a sense of humour. I still have tears just picturing the numpty doing what you suggest.

Ouch.
182

,

17/04/2008 20:29:47
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
183

GalacticCannibal,

Murrieta; . CA.....a place in the Sun 17/04/2008 20:36:08
219
Ayrshire Scot'™

________________________

Hey man, U call me weird .

What is a colostomy bag . Do U have one dude ??

Is it some sort of Haggis bag or something dude.

And why does it smell dude.

WOW maybe its an Scots invention for the food business.

SAY WHAT !!!!

GC

184

GalacticCannibal,

Murrieta; . CA.....a place in the Sun 17/04/2008 20:47:14
Scotland will not be first among equals
-------------------------------------------

Give it up ..dudes.

Scotland needs to find and equal who will stand ankle to ankle with it.

Try the tribal continent of Africa first.

Then the world's beggar bowl countries. NO wait , they are all in Africa.

LONG LIVE THE KING

and in Ur case the Queenie in Buck House.

Do U think she has started to drool from both sides of her mouth YET.

Happy Something day

GC
185

Conan the Librarian™,

17/04/2008 20:51:53
220
Galcan
A colostomy bag is what Ayrshire Scot'™ fakie attaches to his mouth, like a horses feed bag, but in reverse.

Happy hamburger day dude.
186

Ayrshire Scot'™,

17/04/2008 21:16:46
If you are interested in lightening the skin in your anal area we suggest you try one of three different methods:

1. You can seek the help of a cosmetic surgeon or dermatologist. They can prescribe a topical treatment. Some treatments are applied in the office by a medical technician, while others are given as a prescription for you to use in the privacy of your own home. This skin bleaching cream may be similar to prescription acne creams Retin-A (tretinoin) or Azelex (azelaic acid). These creams are often prescribed for a condition called Melasma. Melasma are dark ciscolorations of the skin in patches. So, if you are comfortable seeing a doctor for other procedures you might ask about a cream for the purpose of anal bleaching.

2. You can seek an over-the-counter skin bleaching cream. A milder skin bleaching cream is an excellent choice. Look for a 2% solution of Hydroquinone as it should be mild enough to use on this delicate area. Often, Hydroquinone creams are used to minimize spots that occur due to sun exposure, age, and birth control pills. For this reason they are often coupled with sunscreens. If you are looking to bleach you anus you DON'T want a product with a sunscreen. Look for a nighttime formula instead. Here is a great product, available at ShopInPrivate.com. It is an excellent choice to use as an anal bleach.

To effectively bleach you anal area, apply the cream twice a day. You should see gradual results quickly and continuously. You can discontinue use of the cream when you reach your desired, even skin tone.

Note: Discontinue use if you suffer any discomfort or if your skin is broken or inflamed in that area.

3. You can prevent anal staining by being cautious in the bathroom. We suggest using a moist wipe after every bowel movement. This will ensure that the area remains clean and stain free.

Using a moist wipe is especially important if you are in the process of bleaching that area. Baby wipes can work if you have some hand
187

McX,

17/04/2008 21:18:46
#222 Hey Galactic Dud is it like true that Murrieta is like home to Scientology?

Are you like an operating Thetan, dud?

Do you like worship at the knees of the straightest man on the planet, Greco-Roman wrestling love God, Tom the 'Cleared Theta Clear' Cruise?

Have you like been completely audited and like silent birthed?

Do you like totally believe that Psychiatry like kills Dud?

Are you still waiting for like the Psychlos to come back and take over like the planet like in that documentary Battleship Earth?



Like happy cult day dud.
188

GalacticCannibal,

Murrieta; . CA.....a place in the Sun 17/04/2008 22:01:39
230
McX,

Hey Dude,

I honestly do not know what U are squawking on about.

To the best of my knowledge Murrieta has NO Scientology? people here .

I do not associate with any religion . In my opinion they are all cancers of the mind.

But my friends and I are partial to fresh wild shrooms..
And partial to relaxing healthy sex with the opposite sex like our girl friends.

NOW please go away dude and don't bother me again.

Take a stroll in Sherwood Forrest or better still along the boardwalk in Venice Beach, CA.

Happy NEW MOON DAY dude.
and be nice to all DOG's creatures.

GC

189

McX,

17/04/2008 22:15:03
Hey Dud, we like feel your pain, it's like hard to come down from planet Thnarg without bruising your asss, you know where to go for help. Hey, like we might be a small country with like no hope of independence, but like we care.

http://www.culthelp.info.com


happy cleansing day Dud.

Consider yourself special dud.
190

SeriouslyAmused,

Ayr 17/04/2008 22:18:35
GC - do you realise you bore everyone with your 'dudes' comments. The mere mention of that word 'dude' brings me out in hives! It comes from one whose brain is totally melted and/or seeking peer approval (where peers are spotty teenagers trying to be cool)

Grow up man for God's sake and butt out of the real world.
191

Ayrshire Scot'™,

17/04/2008 22:18:59
Clean fingers with clipped, smoothly filed nails are safe for anal stimulation, and a far cry from a whole hand or sizable objects that can cause tearing of the tissue and bleeding around the anus and in the rectum. Pain upon insertion of anything into any body opening is an excellent indicator that entry needs to be slower, that more lubrication and relaxation are in order, or that the effort should be postponed or abandoned because it just ain't gonna fit. The opening of the anus, or anal sphincter, does stretch, but only to a point. Anal stimulation is not limited to penetration; you can also touch, caress, and rub the area around the anus for pleasure. You may also want to read Jack Morin's book, Anal Pleasure & Health: A Guide for Men and Women for more information.
192

john z,

edinburgh 17/04/2008 22:27:02
If you wannt a real idea of why Labour do so badly in Scotland, you only had to watch Des Browne, being quizzed today by the westminster justice committee.

What an absolute shambles. He verged on the incoherent, and seemed to have very little grasp on what he actually did in terms of resource allocation, budgeting or staff. It really was shocking, but not as shocking as wendy at FMQ's today. Do the spin meisters at London Labour never watch her performances?? really shoddy labour.
193

SeriouslyAmused,

Ayr 17/04/2008 22:32:24
236 Clever, or as clever as you can get with your superior knowledge of the keys on a keyboard. Sad f***wit. The real Ayrshire Scot will have your balls for breakfast - if you had the balls to face up to him.

By the way, do try one on my username... I dare you.
194

Ayrshire Scot'™,

17/04/2008 22:36:22
238

Ayrshire Scot will have my balls for breakfast?

Teabagging is a slang term for the act of a man placing his testicles, specifically the scrotum, in the mouth or face of another person, often in a repeated in-and-out motion. The practice vaguely resembles dipping a tea bag into a cup of tea.

Teabagging is also an erotíc activity used within the context of BDSM and male dominance, with a dominant man teabagging his submissive partner, either a woman or a man, as one variation of facesitting and/or as a means of inflicting Erotic_humiliation.
195

SeriouslyAmused,

Ayr 17/04/2008 22:41:39
239 You've been reported you t0sser. What's your real name - or, tell us one of the many monikers we could guess at... if the Scotsman does not record your IP, more fool them. They are leaving themselves open to abuse by you immature types. Get a grip.
196

SeriouslyAmused,

Ayr 17/04/2008 22:43:05
By the way, are you getting off on this? If so, go to gaydar and do it properly, not like a wimp.
197

Ayrshire Scot'™,

17/04/2008 22:47:31
Shoe on the other foot

the situation is now the opposite of what it was before. Now that I don't smoke, the shoe is on the other foot and I don't want people smoking around me.
See also: foot, other, shoe.
198

Elizabeth I (1558-1603 AD),

edinburgh 17/04/2008 22:57:07
Give it a rest guys (and gals).........there will not be an independent Scotland in Salmond's lifetime, your lifetime, Blair's, Brown's, or even the Broons lifetime. It's going to be a big fat 'NEVER' for independence. Sorry, but that's the reality folks so you might aswell get used to it and enjoy your life and belong to Britain, for ever!
199

S'me,

Edinburgh 17/04/2008 22:58:20
Received this email today.. sums up the SNP- the way they use forums like this etc....
"Last week, we sent you a list of questions about the performance of the SNP government one year on from the party's historic election victory, with a view to publishing the results in Scotland on Sunday. I would like to thank the 2,000 people who responded to the questionnaire and I would like to explain why I chose not to publish the results.

Unfortunately, less than 24 hours after e-mailing the questions to all scotsman.com registered users in Scotland, I was informed that a member of the SNP's press team had circulated an e-mail encouraging members of his party to take part in the survey. In my view, this action jeopardised the integrity of the poll, and I took the decision not to run the results.

I can only apologise, and hope that you will continue to support online polls run by this newspaper."



200

Conan the Librarian™,

17/04/2008 22:58:55
243
Indeed Col.

Indeed.
201

Conan the Librarian™,

17/04/2008 23:02:16
245
Strange. It seems it was only Unionist posters that got this invite...
202

Yankee girl,

USA 17/04/2008 23:11:58
225 Col. Blimp­ IV*,17/04/2008 21:03:21
#223 Conan the Librarian™,

I hear the US Dollar ( the currency of the mightiest economy in the world) is worth only €0.62.

I seem to remember them being 1 = 1 not so long ago.
*********************
Kick us when we're down, why dontcha!!!

Oh, and Ayrshire fakey, 239 was very educaitonal - thanks for that (I think).
203

Conan the Librarian™,

17/04/2008 23:13:45
244
Hi Liz.Still a virgin queen?
204

Conan the Librarian™,

17/04/2008 23:17:01
248
Evening Yankee Girl.
Educational, but not something I would ever do.

Probably.
205

GalacticCannibal,

Murrieta 17/04/2008 23:17:55
248
Yankee girl,
USA
---------------------------------

Hey Dude ,

The US is a unique country. If we sink all the other has been nations will sink with us. Like the Titanic.

But Dude We are not going to sink. not in the next 100 years at least.

So chill dude.

And remember 100% of all the ney sayers of the USA have been helped by our country since its inception . Including the communist CHINA and the Republic of INDIA

GC
206

GalacticCannibal,

Murrieta; . CA.....a place in the Sun 17/04/2008 23:20:30
235
SeriouslyAmused,
Ayr 1
-------------------------------

Wow U are one sensitive DUDE .

Hopefully u are not one of those fossilized old far*ts.

GC
207

Yankee girl,

USA 17/04/2008 23:22:38
250 Hey, Conan! How are things in bonnie Scotland?
208

Conan the Librarian™,

17/04/2008 23:23:39
252
"Maybe it was a rigged poll?"

And the biter bit?
209

Yankee girl,

USA 17/04/2008 23:25:17
251 - GC, dude. I think you're right, if we sink we drag the rest of the world with us. I'm not sure that's something to be proud of, tho. Dude. ;)
210

Conan the Librarian™,

17/04/2008 23:26:52
254
Getting better 41% and rising...
211

GalacticCannibal,

Murrieta; . CA.....a place in the Sun 17/04/2008 23:28:26
240
SeriouslyAmused,
Ayr
-----------------------------------
Dude did U report #239 ,
if U did then U show NO respect for free speech .

I don't agree with what #239 has posted, but I can either not read it or ignore it. I will never report free speech dude.

Why don't U go and reside in CCP CHINA> They will understand U better.

GC
212

Conan the Librarian™,

17/04/2008 23:34:09
258
Gal can
If he did it under his own moniker, fine.
Putting words into another posters mouth, isn't.

I also suspect he would like to put something else there too.
213

GalacticCannibal,

Murrieta; . CA.....a place in the Sun 17/04/2008 23:34:24
256
Yankee girl,
USA 1
-------- Neither am I dude. But its a better than 75% bet that it would happen.

SO do U support the N\Y. (New York Yankees).

They should switch to CRICKET, that original English ball game.

Happy Hustle and Bustle Day in NYC

dude.

GC

214

ochone,

Sauchie, Clack's 17/04/2008 23:51:38
It's time the Scotsman was coming clean about this poll thing, it's a sign of real unionist desperation that it should have sunk this low.
215

Yankee girl,

USA 18/04/2008 00:04:47
259 Conan, I agree. We don't want to think about where his mouth has been...! ;)
216

Yankee girl,

USA 18/04/2008 00:08:53
216 Col Blimp IV (apostrophe)

If you really want to make a point, you should compare dollars to pounds. Now that's bleak.

We'll come back, though!
217

Yankee girl,

USA 18/04/2008 00:09:27
oops, that should be post #261, not 216.
218

Yankee girl,

USA 18/04/2008 00:11:29
Col. B - Okay, catching up now. Yes, definitely come to the US. Travel at bargain prices and have a good time while you're at it!
219

Yankee girl,

USA 18/04/2008 00:28:47
260 GC - I don't know nuthin' about no baseball, dude!
220

GalacticCannibal,

Murrieta; . CA.....a place in the Sun 18/04/2008 00:39:33
263
Col. Blimp­ IV*,
--------------------------------
Dude I only have ONE Akita now . Its a she, her name is ZENA. She weights 94 lbs .

The Male Akita, Hercules had to be executed last month for medical reasons.

The rest of Ur post I will ignore. Its comic strip stuff. dude.

Happy Smoking Chimney's Dude.

And no one in these links annoy GC, I am above Ur mediocre fray .

GC

221

Yankee girl,

USA 18/04/2008 00:43:40
270 Col B - hope your profitable holiday is fun as well!
222

SeriouslyAmused,

Ayr 18/04/2008 06:34:13
Hi GC - yep, I'm an old f@rt and proud of it. Not quite turned to stone yet - that's more your line.
223

mr angry,

ayrshire 18/04/2008 08:31:47
#272 you are a baw bag, I have never seen anybody write so much drivel as you. Please get a grip and
leave people to debate the topics in a sensible fashion.
224

Yr Awel,

Here & There 18/04/2008 10:49:07
55, 60, 82, etc., etc.

Just a couple of questions:

"first among equals" - isn't that a contradiction in terms?

"equal partnership" = 1 - partnership between nations? (but then what does "nation" mean; isn't Scotland hugely divided on the issue?); OR
2 - partnership between individuals? (another way of putting this question being: the 1707 Act of Union = a roadmap "in seculas seculorum" regardless of what has happened, is going to happen, on the ground?)
225

Yr Awel,

HYERES 18/04/2008 11:00:14
191 Suomi

If I didn't know you are dealing with Scotland and England, I could very well assume you favour "separate development" as the successive RSA governments did over the 1970s and 1980s.

In other words: where does "respect" for the "other" end, and where does pure and simple rejection begin?

Here's a possible motto for tomorrow's world (NOT mine though): I love you, I really do, but I want to have nothing (or as little as possible) to do with you...

226

Voldemort,

Edinburgh 18/04/2008 20:37:30
Labour sucks - there is not one of their MP's or MSP's that doesn't make me want to instantaneously throw up ! - They leave a trail of slime behind them like some political slug and growing fat off the land.

Whilst others till the soil these parasites fill their faces with taxpayers money which they greedily collect for their pals companies.

I'd rather have the Tories in but the SNP are doing a great job and they will be getting my vote next time round to keep the Labour slugs out of the cabbage patch.
227

democracy,

Scottish Borders 22/04/2008 02:15:39
What are you talking about Scotsman, this is all, old news, please get up to speed or just give it a rest!!!

 

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