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Wednesday, 9th July 2008

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Salmond calls for referendum on Scottish independence



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FIRST Minister Alex Salmond today challenged opposition parties to come up with an alternative to independence that could be put to the public in a referendum.
The challenge came when he launched the latest stage of the Scottish Government's National Conversation on the country's constitutional future.

The SNP hopes to stage a referendum in 2010 on whether Scotland should become independent.

Mr Salmond today suggested the referendum having two other options, more powers for the Scottish Parliament or no change in the present set-up.

And he said that voting in that referendum could be carried out on a system of one-two-three preferences, as used in last year's local government elections.

This differs markedly from what was set out in a document launched last August when the National Conversation began.

That envisaged a simple yes or no answer to the question of independence, although Mr Salmond said at the time he was "relaxed" about other options being included.

A spokesman for Mr Salmond today denied the First Minister was breaking new ground by talking of a preferential voting system.

"In all the many years the SNP have talked out a constitutional multi-option referendum it has always been on the basis of a preferential voting system," said the spokesman.

The First Minister's challenge to rival parties came when he addressed a gathering in Edinburgh of civic groups from Scottish society, including churches, unions and universities.

Engaging "civic Scotland" in the debate on Scotland's constitutional future forms the second phase of the National Conversation which began last August.

A separate commission, chaired by former chief medical officer Sir Kenneth Calman, is reviewing the powers of the Scottish Parliament ten years on from devolution.

That commission has the backing of Labour, the Lib Dems and the Tories – and independence has been excluded from its deliberations.

Mr Salmond argued today there was now consensus that the present constitutional framework did not give Scotland the opportunities it needed to succeed.

"The question is therefore not whether we should have more powers in Edinburgh but what powers and within what timescale?" he said.
The First Minister said he was "relaxed" about the commission set-up by the other parties.

But he said: "I have already said that as First Minister that I am happy to test support for enhanced devolution, along with support for independence for Scotland.

"And I say to those who oppose the restoration of Scottish independence that just as I respect absolutely their right to hold that view, so in return I feel able to require of them a clear alternative which can be put onto a ballot paper and held up to public scrutiny and be available for a decision by the Scottish people.

"I say that not as a Nationalist but as a democrat."

Mr Salmond said that unlike the commission, the National Conversation was intended to be inclusive of other views.

He pledged to look seriously at whatever suggestions were made as part of the National Conversation – with one exception.

And that was that some powers of the Scottish Parliament could be passed back to Westminster, as suggested by Gordon Brown, as part of a new devolution arrangement.

Mr Salmond declared: "There is no popular mandate whatsoever for such a diminution of Holyrood – the will of the Scottish people is for the repatriation of more powers and responsibilities here in Scotland."

Today's event in Edinburgh took place before an audience of around 120 people from bodies ranging from churches to universities, trade unions and business groups.

Mr Salmond declared: "We are entitled to have different opinions about the best constitutional choice for our nation – but as First Minister I today ask simply that those who oppose an independent Scotland assume also the responsibility of constructive opposition.

"This debate is bigger than all of us and bigger than any party.
"It goes to the heart of who we are and who we want to be as a country – a debate so fundamental and so important that it demands that the people of Scotland make the final decision in a referendum."

He later fielded questions from the audience on topics ranging from nuclear weapons to the economy.

It was during these questions that he suggested the possibility of a preferential voting system for the referendum.

"People managed to get their heads around voting one-two-three in STV (the local government elections last year) so I think we want one-two-three in a three-option referendum," he said.

"I'm pretty confident people in Scotland can manage three choices on a ballot paper."

A business questioner told Mr Salmond the business community believes Scotland has the capability to become independent but questioned whether this was feasible or advisable.

"It's about facts and figures, not political rhetoric, that the business community is interested in," he said.

Mr Salmond pointed to Scotland's long-term growth rate of 1.8% compared to 2.5% for the UK and 3.5% in some other countries and declared: "In a nutshell that is the argument."

Mr Salmond argued nothing in Scotland's history gave cause to believe that the country was intrinsically an underperformer, and the answer must lie in the way Scotland's economy was governed as part of the UK.

The full article contains 883 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

 
1

Andrew Ireland,

Blackrock 26/03/2008 16:46:29
Scottish Government trusts people to decide for themselves shock horror!

Its so scary a concept it is no wonder that the Unionists are scrambling for a fixed process that denies people a vote.
2

Nikostratos,

26/03/2008 16:49:29
Well thats your Independence referendum gone already......Dead in the water i should say..But Alex likes it in Bute house and so is quiet happy to stay as First Minister with or without more powers for the Scottish Parliament.

"I say that not as a Nationalist but as a democrat." which means if most people vote against the Independence option.... As 'Nationalist' he'll be sorry but as a democrat he will take any political position he can to stay in power.
3

Phil C,

26/03/2008 17:04:06
But according to Bendy Wendy and her crooked commission\rigged review, independence isn't even an option!!! So that's that then.
4

brownlie,

glasgow 26/03/2008 17:09:10
"Quiet" is quite an inappropriate word to use regarding Alex Salmond "QUIET" is the Review/Commission's advice to voters who would like some input into their futile deliberations.
5

Peterb74447,

26/03/2008 17:11:23
Total indipendance sounds great, but my concerns lie in the country's economy. Surely if total seperation were to happen, all BRITTISH millitary forces would have to pull out of Scotland and head Back to the United Kingdom. So how many civilian jobs would be lost with the closure of all millatry installations in Scotland? Can the smaller towns like Lossiemouth handle a job loss like that? And what of the Civil service, The job centres, Inland revenue, and all other UK government offices and agency based in Scotland, will they close down. It seems stupid to assume that the UK government will just hand over its Scottish based personell and assets to a forigen government!
6

,

26/03/2008 17:13:00
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7

Nikostratos,

26/03/2008 17:14:56
#3


Whatever way you cut it up the snp have now moved away from a Referendum on Independence (after campaigning for over 80 years) To a multi option ballot.

They have been blown of course by the 'Unionist' commission. Some wiser Nationalists said this would happen if the snp were seduced by Governing from a devolved Parliament.
8

Miss H,

26/03/2008 17:17:15
DaveK - sad stuff.

Peter - Scotland has paid for her proportionate share of those assets and will retain her proportionate share.

Niko - I have often wondered if you fully understand the concept of the sovereignty of the people. It is clear from your silly remarks that you don't. You are incapable of seeing beyond the individual level and you are incapable of seeing that individuals can be motivated by anything other than personal avarice. That says more about you than it does about those you criticise.
9

Alan B,

26/03/2008 17:18:52
Atleast we have one democratic party in scotland that is willing to give the people the choice one way or the other.

How anyone could vote labour a party mired in corruption is beyond me.

10

Jackie Priest,

26/03/2008 17:19:04
#5

"all BRITTISH millitary forces would have to pull out of Scotland "

No, they wouldn't. These forces are not English military forces but British Military forces. The military belongs to us as much as to the rest of the UK. We would retain our share of the military, which should really be quite alot given that our oil revenue pays for most of it.


11

Jackie Priest,

26/03/2008 17:21:01
#7

You sound nervous, Niko. Very nervous. Your words give the impression that your face has turned a whiter shade of pale.


12

DaveK,

Edinburgh 26/03/2008 17:21:29
Yes but Salmond is promising the earth, only to jump from one union to an ever increasing Union with Europe - small country syndrome will be a reality in a Federal Europe, will the Fisherman, finance workers teahcers and Doctors and Military staff thank him when the money dries up long before the oil - nope! And besides they wont let him have his face on the euro, but he'd call for that too he is so in love with himself.
13

Andrew Ireland,

Blackrock 26/03/2008 17:27:23
Dave K - keep taking the tablets - but even you get a vote in a multi-option referendum.

Niko on the other hand seems to have been disenfranchised by the unfortunate fact of living on a different planet...
14

DaveK,

Edinburgh 26/03/2008 17:32:45
I have no need of tablets but my country will need a big shot in the arm and then a reality check with Salmond at the helm, unless of course you have those dillusion pills the nats keep taking.
15

Resolutions,

26/03/2008 17:35:45
DaveK
There seem to be a lot of small countries in Europe pefectly happy to have their input into the system which is considerably more than Scotland enjoys now.

You seem to have a pretty high opinion of yourself and your beliefs. Pity that you cannot respect everyone else before you type your ill-informed tripe.
16

Jackie Priest,

26/03/2008 17:39:08
You've really got to admire the SNP strategy. The unionist parties come out with their review thingy and what happens?

Salmond steals their thunder, whips the incentive from right under their noses.

The unionists play their move and Salmond responds with a move that instantly puts them into check.

Fascinating.
17

DaveK,

Edinburgh 26/03/2008 17:40:20
So any opinion contrary to yours is tripe! Curious.
18

Worried Scot,

26/03/2008 17:45:08
I'm a Unionist and I fully support a referendum - what's the problem? 3 options 1 choice by the people - who can argue against that? Bring it on I say.
19

Jock "The Teuchtor" McGraw I ken were ane history,

26/03/2008 17:52:43
What a buffoon!

This is bait and switch and tactics, the man a complicit liar.

Bait people into agreeing to a referendum.

Then switch to a series of wording and questioning not on the cards when at baiting stage.

Here is an option for you! Do nothing!

Radical eh? Two legs good, four legs bad.

Does Alex Salmond have a referendum on whether to where pants and socks in the morning? Is there a viable alternative to underwear? Should we ask people every manky little detail of their lives every other day?

No.

Get some work done porky, the union stays.
20

Media 1,

cape town 26/03/2008 17:54:13
Well done Mr Salmond, now you are speaking my language.
A referendum on independence is what we all want, so well done in that regard.

I want a yes or no referendum! Yes to independence, No to independence.
21

Jock "The Teuchtor" McGraw I ken were ane history,

26/03/2008 17:56:31
Only 23% of Scots want independence.

I bet out of those 90% would vote.

Out of 77% I bet only 40% would vote.

That is the reason parties don't want a referendum.

Seperatist Nationalist = militant voter.

Ordinary decent UK citizen = got better things to do than be dragged to the polls every other day by some rebel group.
22

Resolutions,

26/03/2008 17:59:20
DaveK
It would appear that Alex Salmond (who is not a cult)and his cabinet are making quite a good job of running the country and giving it confidence,as well as dealing with the 'Unionist initiatives' but your expression of your concerns, leaves a lot to be desired in the manners stake.
#18 Worried Scot I am glad that you would like to express your democratic concerns via a referendum. Perhaps you could persuade your Unionist friends to that way of thinking too. At the moment it appears that 'asking the people' is the last thing on their minds.
23

Nikostratos,

26/03/2008 18:00:01
#8 Miss H

the sovereignty of the people. was given to the elected msp at holyrood (under the Westminster parliament within the current constitution)


The snp in their manifesto said
http://www.snp.org/policies
"we will trust Scots to take the decision on Scotland’s future in an independence
referendum. The choice will be yours. That is the fair and democratic way."

No mention their of a multi option ballot...

As for 'Avarice' I have accused no one of financial greed........Greed for power that is another question and I have no doubt the snp will settle for power in a devolved Government as easily as a Independent Government.


as for silly comments what is a life worth without silly comments..........

#16 Jackie Priest,

Yes after eighty years of campaigning for a independent Scotland the snp will now accept staying within the 'Union'

Brilliant strategy for achievement of their stated aim of an independent Scotland
24

Jim P,

26/03/2008 18:03:57
As I have proposed before, the SNP should run a few candidates in marginal English constituencies in the next general election. This will give people south of the border, Scots and others, an opportunity to have their say on Independence.
25

Jock "The Teuchtor" McGraw I ken were ane history,

26/03/2008 18:06:16
22

Empty vessels make the most noise and the squeekest wheels get oiled.

This is common and true. But not over political decision as important as the union.

The SNP are deluded. They will never get a referendum, never get independence. Why? Because people don't want one.

Why is it so hard for you to accept that?

The reason you have so much trouble in getting your referendum is because democracy and the will of the people hate your guts and don't want one.

Now why doesn't he do some work?

Instead he argues for a referendum on whether it should be a sausage or a bacon roll. He is happy at this stage just to get a referendum "in principle" on any old crap.

Bait and switch.

Get some real work done fatty/
26

The Master,

26/03/2008 18:11:06
#16 Priest: everyone knows that Salmond’s backing a loser with the independence policy and, if a multi option referendum is ever heard, voter indifference will be such that any result will be rendered meaningless. You Nats really are stuck in your own little world if you imagine otherwise.
27

,

26/03/2008 18:12:27
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28

Jackie Priest,

26/03/2008 18:15:17
#23

But the pro-independence or more power for devolution votes will win. Either way, it will amount to independence - the difference being only a quesiton of time. This is why the unionist parties are terrified of a referendum.

They know they've already lost. They're resorting to tiddlywink politics in order to aovid facing up to the issue.

I wouldn't mind it so much but it just prolongs the dead weight of the union hanging round Scotland's neck. This is what makes the unionists morally derelict. They are standing in the way of progress and people are losing out because of it.

Fools.
29

Jackie Priest,

26/03/2008 18:17:53
#26

There is a lack of convictionn in the Master's tone of voice!

But I have to say, our imagary world is a good one! We have a pro-independence government who are in power there!

What about your imaginary world, Master. Who governs there?
30

New Town Resident,

26/03/2008 18:21:48
two points.

First its not possible to judge unless you know the answers to the EU position. No way would I want independence if it meant ditching the Pound and signing up to Schengen (i.e. border controls with England). In theory all new EU members have to sign up to both Schengen and the Euro, so its not really something you can duck, although of course the SNP does precisely that!

Second, while I'm relying on AM2 postings here, he says that polls show that while 23% want full independence, actually 11% still say they want Holyrood binned altogether. If we are going to be fair and include all the options, then how come this option is also not included as a fourth question?
31

Highland Mighty,

26/03/2008 18:28:30
"Mr Salmond argued nothing in Scotland's history gave cause to believe that the country was intrinsically an underperformer, and the answer must lie in the way Scotland's economy was governed as part of the UK."

Seeing we have exactly the same economic, trade and employment policies in place throughout the entire UK, which in turn is Europe's strongest economy and favourite place among multinationals to do business, it is worrying that the SNP has conceded it has no idea how to improve on that, yet expects us to give him more power and responsibilities?
32

,

26/03/2008 18:29:36
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33

Highland Mighty,

26/03/2008 18:29:43
30. 23% want independence yet 22% want things left as they are.

Where is the latter's option being catered for?
34

Bob10,

26/03/2008 18:38:13
I guess Alex can't come up with any really workable plan for independence so he is hoping to crib some better ideas when he checks his "suggestion box".
35

danielrober,

26/03/2008 18:51:04
How about a referendum that would really benefit the people of Scotland.

Yes or No to the taxation and control of category C drugs.

Well how about it Alec.S? Or you jsut another post imperial British politican trading on his difference to the next man, rather than what your standing for people need. A real reduction in crime and a return of safety to our streets.
36

dido-bendigo,

Argyll 26/03/2008 18:52:32
Here we go again! There is no box for 'Non Of These'! Such is the spin with the people of power! It reminds me of the old days of school when we returned from some stupid event only to be told to write an essay beginning with "I enjoyed my visit to the factory because" ! Alex the 1st is trying to steal the limelight from the French State visit because he knows that nuclear generated power-stations are going to be discussed. Will England, Wales and Northern Ireland rely on Scottish windpower? Not on your sweet Nelly!
37

The Master,

26/03/2008 18:53:22
#29 Priest: well, that’s funny: I seem to recall there was a staunchly pro status quo administration in power for some time in the parliament and that Labour had a resoundingly large representation during those years. This may have failed to kill off nationalism, but similarly, there’s no way on Earth that you Nats will ever kill off unionism in Scotland. In any event, the parliament’s voting system was specifically designed to prevent your lot from ever achieving an outright majority, so you’ve been sold a pup if you think the parliament is a vehicle through which separation will one day be achieved.
38

,

26/03/2008 18:56:50
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39

danielrober,

26/03/2008 18:57:23
Okay Alec.S

If there is independence, i expect i'll allowed to become Scotish, mainly on the grounds of my family been net tax payer.

Can i and the other 600,000 to 900,000 Scots and Anglo-Scots (who are interested) have a vote on this. After all you are forcing us to chose a county, without a say in it.
40

jimbob82,

Calgary 26/03/2008 18:58:36
Are the Scots people so insecure that they believe their economy is totally dependent on England and that the loss of military jobs and government jobs would be totally and utterly devastating. Is Scotland's education system inferior to England's. Are Scottish resources (oil, gas, coal, wind power, wave power, water resources) inferior to England's. We all know this is not the case. Does Scotland rely on the London Makerts for capitalization and funding, you better believe it. Thus, Scotland knows its weakness and this must be overcome. It can be overcome and will create jobs. Government jobs will be created. Unless I'm out of date, all cash collection etc is undertaken in Newcastle England. This would transfer to Scotland. Many jobs undertaken in England on behalf of Scotland will transfer. Oil and gas head offices, currently in London will have to transfer to Scotland. Opportunity KNOCKS, unless the Scottish trait of inferiority is too overwhelming.
41

Bob10,

26/03/2008 18:59:42
The SNP hopes to stage a referendum in 2010 on whether Scotland should become independent.

Independence will be a reality by 2011.

Advance bookings are now being taken for the Cruise Ships of the Darien Line for the New Darien Adventure of 2012!
42

Nikostratos,

26/03/2008 19:02:26
#23

"But the pro-independence or more power for devolution votes will win. Either way, it will amount to independence "


So finally devolution = Independence jackie give it up for tonight have a go tomorrow you might be on the ball.

43

danielrober,

26/03/2008 19:02:42
# 20 Media 1,cape town

So media 1, soup aside have you been quietly pushing for this all along? After all most of us simply want the Scotish and UK government to concentrate on our economic and socail problems. Though our soup is okay, its not a problem, it comes in cans.

I'll click on later for your return.
44

A Scot in America,

New York USA 26/03/2008 19:15:34
Oppressed Scots came to America and freed themselves from a German king and an English Parliament over 200 years ago. Its long past due for Scotland to do the same. Hear Hear for Independence.
45

Nikostratos,

26/03/2008 19:23:18
#44

do you know how many Oppressed Scots fought for the English( British) Against the Continental Army willingly 200 years ago............read your history
46

,

26/03/2008 19:23:19
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47

Media 1,

cape town 26/03/2008 19:27:12
danielrober

I have been very critical of Salmond in the past. I see him as a freedom fighter, not a politician. I dont particulary like the SNP, they fill me with dread. I see in them the traits that most liberation movements possess, Zanu PF included. What is promised is freedom, we already have that. They agitate and fill the masses with national fervour using the most obvious and conscious issues to create the hysteria, which in Scotland's case is England.
But all that aside, I want a referendum on independence. That way I can say NO to independence and have my say, and so can everyone else. But whatever the outcome I will respect it, although I wonder if Salmond will do the same if the result is contrary to his agenda?
48

,

26/03/2008 19:34:46
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49

Resolutions,

26/03/2008 19:34:56
#25
"Empty vessels make the most noise and the squeekest wheels get oiled."

How well you describe yourself! Well done!
50

Nikostratos,

26/03/2008 19:38:47
#49

and the nail that stands out gets hammered....Japanese proverb
51

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 26/03/2008 19:42:55
From all the comments above I get the general impression that unionists are against the idea of asking the people what they think.

They appear to be quite content to be dictated to by the likes of Alexander, Goldie and Nicol. A Ragman band if ever there was one. The harmonies are just as bad as the singers, songwriters and groupies.
52

boudica,

Glasgow 26/03/2008 19:43:29
I`ll say this Wee Eck as more front than Brighton Beach ...He wants a Referendum and he wants to use the same Dodgy System that threw out over 147.500 votes ...
...Everybody shouted about the Fiasco that was the Scottish Elections last year and now Wee Eck wants to use the same Dodgy system again ..Why ? Is their something Wee Eck aint telling us ? haha
53

Jock Tamson,

Media1 watch 26/03/2008 19:44:34
Get a grip and try something innovative in the cloning department
54

,

26/03/2008 19:47:13
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55

boudica,

26/03/2008 19:52:00
Media 1 ...Salmond already answered that question ..he was asked by a BBC reporter in the Run up to the Election ..What if there was a referendum and it was No too Independence what would you do ...We would just have referndums till we got the right answer ...in the same interview he came out with ..." We could rejoin the Union if it doesnt work out " ...Yep ...Thats Wee Eck who listens to the people of Scotland that is Himself the Wife and their deluded friends not to forget the Sheep ... as for The rest of us ...Nah !!! we dont sing from his hymn sheet so we will be ignored ...or So he thinks ...
56

A Scot in America,

26/03/2008 19:52:07
Nikostratos

Divide and conquer has always been the English game in its relations with Scotland but the outcome of 1776 was different. Those Scots who fought with the Continental Army gained independence for their new country. Those who fought with the "British" army did not.......
57

GalacticCannibal,

Murrieta, CA...bye Bush -Cheney..u. evil leaders. 26/03/2008 19:52:33
50
Nikostratos,
26/03/2008

Dude, That Japanese proverb is for Japanese only .

Its old and outdated.

Here in the US

The nail that sticks out ;

Gets pulled out and replaced with a chem. coated, high tensile screw that will not corrode, in Ocean sea-salt spray..

Get a grip Dude
GC
58

danielrober,

26/03/2008 19:53:38
Errr Media 1, Dude.

I recommended Brave Heart as a god film. Its just not very accurate. Alec.S Freedom figher eerrrrrrrrrrr.
59

,

26/03/2008 19:57:24
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60

Nikostratos,

26/03/2008 19:58:01
#51 the subversive


"Thoughtcrime does not entail death: thoughtcrime is death."

From the 'Good Unionist Hand Book'

That has probably cost me my life
61

Nikostratos,

26/03/2008 19:59:00
#57

Not in this mans army..........
62

boudica,

Glasgow ... 26/03/2008 20:00:15
Media ....and what if they were ? people with big bellies and big derieres cant have opions ?....talking about Ar$es ...and the fact that you talk out of yours with such Panache....
63

,

26/03/2008 20:03:06
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64

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 26/03/2008 20:08:38
Hey Gal, 57

Read your earlier online utterings about people who live in foreign lands deserting their country of birth. Is that why only 10% of Americans have passports and the rest are totally dependent on TV stations for an outside look at the world unless they join the military?

You got a passport, dud?

65

boudica,

Glasgow 26/03/2008 20:09:19
Media 1 ... Thats right blame the poor threadworms ...dont you think they have enough probs being were they are ......
66

Media 1,

cape town 26/03/2008 20:09:41
Boudicia

Please refrain from using my name media. And use my fans name med!a.
You must understand, I am hot property on this forum, people want to be me. This is not the first time it has happened, I have a large following of fanatical fans.
67

,

26/03/2008 20:12:31
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68

,

26/03/2008 20:21:03
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69

Media 1,

26/03/2008 20:22:25
danielrober

Yeah Braveheart is a good film. There is not one ounce of truth in the movie, but its a good ficticious movie!

70

GalacticCannibal,

Murrieta, CA........Hillary for Pres....Barack Hus 26/03/2008 20:23:36
Dudes,

Ur leader Alex .S, is at it again . But a little more squirmy this time around, don't U think.!!

His emotional rhetoric will be no match, for the reality of an independent Scotland. Its all a dream, a pipe dream, that could turn into a nightmare for all Scots.

Still there is always the beggars bowl, and possible pocket change, from the ex mother country England, or the EU Bureaucratic controllers.

Unless or Until 3/4 of the Scots, want and vote, for independence from the mother country . It will remain a pipe dream.

Right now 32% of the Scots vote for SNP and SNPs fanatical quest for independence.

In the new global economy ..BIGGER is BETTER,...BIGGER is SAFER,....BIGGER has CLOUT.

Examples
China vs Tibet..Ti = poverty
England vs Scotland ..Sc = beggars bowl
EU vs England...En = isolation
US vs Iraq...Ir = tribal killing

Ch = massive economy
EU = massive economy
US = massive economy.

Now if SNP were to get independence, the example would be ;
Scotland vs Tibet..Sc + Ti = poverty /beggars bow!!!!.

So long as the SNP keep dreaming, the rest of the Scots 68% , will do just fine.

Relax dudes and chill out

GC
71

boudica,

Glasgow 26/03/2008 20:25:30
Jock so what if only 10% of Americans want to travel ...maybe they prefer to see their own country first its a big country ..plenty to see and lets face it so do millions of people all around the World would jump at the chance to live there..people can shout about the USA but no matter what ..if they had the chance to live there they would do so in a heartbeat ...me I prefer the United Kingdom .....
72

Media 1,

cape town 26/03/2008 20:26:58
#70 Galacticannibal

Agree completely!
73

Dr Cloth,

Edinburgh 26/03/2008 20:27:18
#13 Andrew Ireland

Why must every Unionist be "on tablets" or "living on another planet"? There are rather a large number of sane, hard working Scots who would rather remain in the union than gamble on Mr Salmond's vision of a land of milk and honey and (incredible though it may seem) they have as much right to comment on the future of their country as the nationalists.....

The whole movement seems to me to be based on nothing but 'small man syndrome'. No-one has ever given me a good argument for independence. We are a small but proud nation who benefit from a very successful union with England (and Wales and NI - oddly these nations often seem to be ignored during discussion of the topic. Surely that couldn't be because the whole argument is based on a childish hatred of the English, could it?!) I simply don't see the need for it - things are going along just fine thanks.

Another interesting question is who will pay for all the wonderful things that Mr Salmond is offering us? That £100,000 to change the sign on the Scottish Executive building at Victoria Quay to "Scottish Government" was definately money well spent. I'll happily pay more money each month for that sort of progressive move...

Finally, for all I disagree with Mr Salmond's politics, he is a clever man. Surely a multi-option referendum would serve to split the unionist vote, while the nationalists would all vote for option one.... I worry about the results
74

,

26/03/2008 20:27:25
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
75

,

26/03/2008 20:31:32
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
76

Nikostratos,

26/03/2008 20:32:00
#70

AMERICA................the 50 stone nation
77

Media 1,

cape town 26/03/2008 20:32:43
Dr Cloth

Your post is an inspiration! Well put.
You are 100% correct in all that you say.
78

FS,

Stirling 26/03/2008 20:33:52
Let's hope it goes through, always nice to actually have a say in politics - between the four year wait that is. Surely opponents and supporters of indepedence can be "united" in agreeing that the people's say on this issue is long overdue (300 years I make it).
79

Nikostratos,

26/03/2008 20:34:18
My brother sat on the fire guard and farted..whoosh one big flame..... nearly died laughing
80

GalacticCannibal.,

Murrieta, CA........Hillary for Pres....Barack Hus 26/03/2008 20:39:13
Hello, my name is ______. I’m taking American Accent Training. There’s a lot to learn, but I hope to make it as enjoyable as possible. I should pick up on the American intonation pattern pretty easily, although the only way to get it is to practice all of the time.

81

Truely English,

26/03/2008 20:40:04
I fail to understand the problem with holding a referendum as the Scots that I meet would not want to break away from England, Wales or Northern Ireland. After all, we are all British and have been for many centuries sharing the same values aspirations culture and way of life.
It is unimaginable to see Scotland being torn out of the Union and away from the rest of Britain. What a thought.
82

GalacticCannibal.,

Murrieta, CA........Hillary for Pres....Barack Hus 26/03/2008 20:41:12
Betty bought a bit of better butter.

Beddy bada bida bedder budder. The boot in the car
83

GalacticCannibal.,

Murrieta, CA........Hillary for Pres....Barack Hus 26/03/2008 20:42:39
Remember the sentence you imitated at the beginning of the analysis? Let’s try it again. Try to sound as much like me as you did the first time
84

GalacticCannibal,

Murrieta, CA........Hillary for Pres....Barack Hus 26/03/2008 20:43:30
64
Jock Tamson,
Scotland, Caledonia,
------------------------
Yep Dude . I sure have a passport . And has nothing to do with the US military, dude.

Hey Dude when an American drives from San Diego California, to Montpelier in Vermont,

It would be a longer drive, than if U drove from London to Cairo in Egypt .

Enough said Dude.

Chill and relax

GC
85

GalacticCannibal.,

Murrieta, CA........Hillary for Pres....Barack Hus 26/03/2008 20:43:37
You’ve now completed the American Accent Training diagnostic analysis. Your results will be sent to you in a comprehensive report by email.

86

GalacticCannibal.,

Murrieta, CA........Hillary for Pres....Barack Hus 26/03/2008 20:45:21
64
Jock Tamson,
Scotland, Caledonia,
------------------------
Yep Dude . I sure have a passport . And has nothing to do with the US military, dude.

Hey Dude when an American drives from San Diego California, to Montpelier in Vermont,

It would be a longer drive, than if U drove from London to Cairo in Egypt .

Enough said Dude.

Chill and relax

GC

You’ve now completed the American Accent Training diagnostic analysis. Your results will be sent to you in a comprehensive report by email.

87

GalacticCannibal.,

Murrieta, CA........Hillary for Pres....Barack Hus 26/03/2008 20:47:24
Everyone can learn to speak English with an American accent.
Speaking with an American accent is a skill that you can learn!
It's not a natural talent which some people have and others don't.
It doesn't matter who you are, or even where you're from.
The secret to speaking with an American accent is training!

88

GalacticCannibal.,

Murrieta, CA........Hillary for Pres....Barack Hus 26/03/2008 20:49:01
Best Accent Training mp3s are a complete training plan for learning how to speak English clearly and correctly!
With Best Accent Training mp3s, you can practice wherever you want to! Put this audio course onto your mp3 player or burn it to CD and you're ready to start!!
Powerful training exercises show you what to do to overcome your accent , and teach you how to develop clear and confident speech.
It's an English pronunciation training system in mp3 which anyone who wants to sound like an American can use successfully!
89

,

26/03/2008 20:49:22
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
90

GalacticCannibal,

Murrieta, CA....captured from Mexico 1845 26/03/2008 20:50:42
Attention Moderator

If u check the IPA
#'s 75 ,08, 82, 83 U will find they were not posted by me ..

GC

Still its funny that an unknown poster, likes to ape me GC.

Chill dude.

91

,

26/03/2008 20:51:56
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
92

GalacticCannibal.,

Murrieta, CA....captured from Mexico 26/03/2008 20:52:14
Attention Moderator

Everyone can learn to speak English with an American accent.
Speaking with an American accent is a skill that you can learn!
It's not a natural talent which some people have and others don't.
It doesn't matter who you are, or even where you're from.
The secret to speaking with an American accent is training!

93

Nikostratos,

26/03/2008 20:52:23
G C

is this your army

http://my.break.com/content/view.aspx?ContentID=463231
94

GalacticCannibal,

Murrieta, CA........captured from Mexico 1845 26/03/2008 20:54:37
#90 contd:

Moderator

The poster of #'s 85, 86, 88 were not posted by me

GC
95

democracy,

Scottish Borders 26/03/2008 20:55:47
The uneducated 'Jock the "wBanker" tattie shaw MacGraw, a dinnae ken whit am taukin aboot'.

Before May 2007, it was the accepted view that the SNP would never win an election.

They won.

It was the accepted view that they would never survive as a minority government.

They did.

It was the accepted view that they would never get their budget through Parliament.

The SNP budget was passed.


Now the accepted view is that they will never achieve their pledge of having a referendum.

Wait and see, all you stupid little Unionists, as you obviously learn nothing from history, even when it jumps up and bites you on the nose you STILL cant see!!! and I LUV it!!
96

,

26/03/2008 20:55:48
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
97

GalacticCannibal.,

Murrieta, CA....captured from Mexico 26/03/2008 20:57:21
93
hope that peice of shi t gets killed by a road side bomb!!!!!!! you got to be fucke d in the head to do somthing like this! just no respected for anything!!! whats wrong with people now days......?
98

GalacticCannibal,

Murrieta, CA....Bye Bye Bush -Cheney..u. evil lead 26/03/2008 20:57:24
93
Nikostratos,
2

NO dude ..not mine

GC
99

walter,

26/03/2008 20:59:02
This debate is bigger than all of us and bigger than any party.
"It goes to the heart of who we are and who we want to be as a country – a debate so fundamental and so important that it demands that the people of Scotland make the final decision in a referendum."

But will it be the final decision, if the majority of the votes cast do not support independence will that be the end of the SNPs campaign for independence, I think not they will continue to push for independence in the future.

Mr Salmond pointed to Scotland's long-term growth rate of 1.8% compared to 2.5% for the UK

The growth rate for Scotland, England, Wales and N.Ireland is 2.5% but for Scotland it is 1.8%.
What is it for Wales, N.Ireland and England is their growth rate the same as the UK as a whole or is it more/less.


100

GalacticCannibal.,

Murrieta, CA....Bye Bye Bush -Cheney..u. evil lead 26/03/2008 20:59:07
93
Nikostratos,
2

yes dude ..its mine

GC
101

GalacticCannibal,

Murrieta, CA...bye Bush -Cheney..u. evil leaders. 26/03/2008 20:59:22
#97

Was not posted by me .. but I agree with its comment

GC
102

Nikostratos,

26/03/2008 20:59:56
#98


G C i agree...........
103

GalacticCannibal.,

Murrieta, CA....Bye Bye Bush -Cheney..u. evil lead 26/03/2008 21:00:44
#90 contd:

Moderator

The poster of #'s 85, 86, 88 were not posted by me

GC

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA
104

Jackie Priest,

26/03/2008 21:01:35
#73

Hi Dr Cloth. Nice name.

You say: "No-one has ever given me a good argument for independence."

Well, every other country that you and I can think of is independent which, you know, kind of tells you something.

Then you say "I worry about the results"

Which makes you sound like you're the one suffering from "small man syndrome".

You call Scotland a proud nation but, Doc, you don't sound very proud at all. Proud people take responsibility for their actions and don't depend on others for pocket money allowances to live their lives. Proud countries are the same on a bigger scale.