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Labour implodes over independence vote



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Published Date: 08 May 2008
A DAY of extraordinary disarray within Labour has left serious questions hanging over the party's leadership on both sides of the Border. Days after Wendy Alexander, the Scottish Labour leader, called for a referendum on independence, Gordon Brown, the Prime Minister, directly contradicted her when put on the spot at Westminster yesterday.
His failure to support Ms Alexander left some critics suggesting her position was untenable and saying she should step down immediately.

But last night she refused to quit and insisted that she and the Prime Minister were in agreement.

Labour's implosion began just after midday in the Commons, where MPs had gathered for Prime Minister's Questions. Already facing a rough ride after the party's meltdown in local elections last week, Mr Brown was quizzed by David Cameron, the Tory leader, on Ms Alexander's call for an early referendum on Scottish independence.

But instead of backing her, Mr Brown said the situation should be reviewed when the Calman commission on devolution had reported. And, in an even more surprising sign of a party in chaos, he appeared to deny that she had even called for a referendum.

When the Tory leader asked Mr Brown if he agreed with Ms Alexander that a referendum should be held "now", the Prime Minister replied: "That is not what she has said."

Mr Cameron retorted: "I think you are losing touch with reality."

Mr Brown certainly appeared to reveal a lack of communication between his office and Ms Alexander's. Only a day earlier, when asked if Mr Brown supported her calls for a referendum, the Scottish Labour leader simply said: "Yes."

As news of Mr Brown's comments at PMQs spread, Ms Alexander went to ground.

She and her aides hid from the press for almost three hours while they tried to get their story straight. During this period, there was a desperate phone call to Mr Brown from Ms Alexander.

She issued a statement just after 3pm saying there was no disagreement. But it only added to the confusion, by failing to restate her position of earlier in the week.

Her spin doctor then faced the press pack. He claimed Mr Cameron's use of the word "now" meant the Tory leader was technically wrong over Ms Alexander's position on a referendum. But he went on to confirm that she and the Holyrood Labour group wanted a plebiscite as soon as possible.

However, a source close to Ms Alexander admitted to The Scotsman: "There is a difference between them (Ms Alexander and Mr Brown] on that bit (waiting for the Calman commission], but Wendy intends to stick to her guns."

Matters were made worse when it emerged that Labour could not, as Ms Alexander had said it might do, bring forward a bill to have a referendum and force the SNP's hand. This is because the SNP has already tabled a white paper and indicated that a bill will be brought forward before the election.

Meanwhile, the SNP sat back and rejoiced at the apparent implosion of the Labour Party on this crucial constitutional issue. They joined the Tories and the Liberal Democrats in saying Ms Alexander's position was untenable.

Mr Cameron twisted the knife further by writing to Mr Brown, pointing out that what he and Ms Alexander had said could not both be correct.

The saga follows three of the most remarkable days for post-devolution Scottish politics, which started with Ms Alexander stunning everyone, especially her Labour colleagues at Holyrood, with a U-turn on an independence referendum and saying she wanted one as soon as possible.

Suspicions about Mr Brown's private unhappiness over his close ally's stance were aroused on Tuesday, when he said the issue was a matter for Ms Alexander.

Labour MSPs are refusing to say Ms Alexander should quit as leader, but many were keeping their heads down yesterday. Many who did show their faces were far from happy and some were taking sides between the party's UK and Scottish leaders.

One joked, "I think I'm going to join the Lib Dems", while another said: "I think we are in a parallel universe."

But a third claimed: "I guess he (Gordon Brown] has lost control of the Scottish Labour Party, but I know which one is right, and that's Wendy.

"We've been fighting on public policy for a year and, let's be honest, we failed. We need to get the independence issue out of the way and then attack the SNP on their cuts.

"(Alex] Salmond now has to explain why he is not going to bring a bill for a referendum forward immediately."

Only one Labour MSP, Karen Gillon, has come out against a referendum, but she insists she is "loyal to her leader".

She also opposed a referendum on devolution.

The SNP's Nicola Sturgeon, the deputy First Minister, was the first to go on the attack. "Wendy Alexander's position is now completely untenable," she said. "At a stroke, Gordon Brown has destroyed her leadership and placed serious questions over his own."

Mr Salmond described Labour's troubles as a "spectator sport" and said the SNP would stick to its pledge of producing a referendum bill in 2010. He added: "I'm not sure if Wendy Alexander is trying to get rid of Gordon Brown, or Gordon Brown is trying to get rid of Wendy Alexander."

Annabel Goldie, the Scottish Tory leader, who has always opposed an independence referendum and has accused Ms Alexander of treachery, also demanded that she go.

Last night, the Scottish Labour leader was left desperately defending her position.

Asked if she intended to quit, she replied: "Not at all."

When asked if her position was untenable, she said: "I have the support of the Prime Minister, the Labour group of MSPs, of many party members and the people of Scotland, who feel they have the right to have a say on this matter."

PM pulls a score bore out of fire as Cameron gives him a chance to make-up lost ground

Ross Lydal

LITTLE did he know it, but Gordon Brown had Boris Johnson to thank for the cheer that greeted his arrival in the Commons chamber yesterday.

Moments earlier, the new mayor of London had been greeted by mass approval on the Tory benches. Labour MPs may be down in the dumps, but they're not ready to be outdone in the pantomime stakes.

It was the Prime Minister's first Question Time since the local election drubbing. And David Cameron, the Tory leader, was only too keen to drive a wedge between Mr Brown and Wendy Alexander, Labour's leader in Scotland.

With a dutiful nod to the Speaker, Mr Cameron launched his six questions by asking about Ms Alexander's "bring it on" call for a referendum.

Did the Prime Minister agree with her view that there "should be a referendum now"?

"That is not what she said," returned the great clunking fist, leaving MPs scratching their heads in puzzlement.

Surely that was exactly what she said?

Oh, no. Mr Brown may have been splitting grey hairs, but he clung to Mr Cameron's use of the word "now" for protection.

Ms Alexander's comments were all about exposing the "hollowness" of the SNP's pledge on independence and lack of haste in holding a referendum, he said, a comment which later led to a point of order from the SNP.

Mr Cameron decided to get personal. "This is the Prime Minister who went on American Idol with more make-up on than Barbara Cartland," he jested.

But how it backfired. He could barely be heard – and had to swallow his own laughter – when Labour MPs fired back at maximum decibels that he was one to talk about make-up.

And so it continued: Cameron firing the jibes about No10 meetings with Shakira and George Clooney – "Why does he not give up the PR and start being a PM?" – and Mr Brown returning with his familiar claim of Tory "slick salesmanship" and boasts about rising employment and fewer children living in poverty.

A score draw descended into a bore draw as Mr Brown droned about 42-day detention. The Prime Minister had managed to escape the heat – and turned the fire back on Ms Alexander.

Diary of the shambles that made Labour a laughing stock

SUNDAY

ON the Politics Show, Wendy Alexander is asked if she will support a referendum. She first says she won't make policy in a television studio, but, when pressed, adds: "Bring it on."

Later in the day, one of the Scottish Labour leader's aides confirms to The Scotsman that she now supports a referendum.

MONDAY

AN aide for Ms Alexander tells The Scotsman that she would like to have a referendum in 12 months on a simple "yes or no" question on independence. He suggests Labour may bring forward its own bill to force the issue.

Ms Alexander goes back on television and radio to confirm the policy change from opposing a referendum to supporting one. The SNP welcomes the U-turn.

TUESDAY

THE Labour group in Holyrood meets and agrees to support Ms Alexander's new policy. Duncan McNeil, the group's spokesman, says that all the MSPs agreed with the new policy, some were relieved and that they would support a referendum whenever it was called. Gordon Brown's spokesman says the issue is "a matter for the leader of the Labour Party in Scotland".

Ms Alexander gives a press conference and asks what the SNP is afraid of in bringing forward a bill for a referendum now. She says a referendum should happen as soon as possible.

An aide to Ms Alexander later adds that, ideally, a referendum would take place in 2009.

Annabel Goldie, the Scottish Conservatives' leader, accuses Ms Alexander of betraying Scotland. The SNP insists it will stick to its manifesto promise of bringing forward a referendum bill in 2010.

YESTERDAY

AT Prime Minister's Questions (PMQs), Gordon Brown says that there should be a review of the situation after the Calman commission on devolution reports, contradicting Ms Alexander's statement on Tuesday.

Labour promises a statement, but neither Ms Alexander nor her main press officer comes out to talk to the press. The statement is issued after almost three hours but fails to reconfirm Ms Alexander's position of the previous few days. Aides say she has not changed her mind.

Ms Alexander speaks to Mr Brown after PMQs and her aide says the two agree, but a source admits that there is a split. Opponents say Ms Alexander's position is now untenable.

Alexander's statement in full yesterday

The Prime Minister and I are agreed about exposing the hollowness of the SNP's position, claiming they favour independence, yet wanting to hold a referendum in only 2010 or 2011.

David Cameron is wrong. His question showed his continuing lack of understanding of the process. The Prime Minister was right to say no-one was proposing a referendum at Westminster. The procedures of the Scottish Parliament mean that even if the SNP or anyone else introduced a Bill at Holyrood it could take up to 12 months to be considered.

As the Prime Minister said, the Calman commission has been set up to review devolution and we will continue to review its progress.

COMMENTS ON A CRISIS

"I think I'm going to join the Lib Dems."

Joke by Labour MSP

"I guess he (Gordon Brown] has lost control of the Scottish Labour Party." – Labour MSP

"There is a difference between them on that bit, but Wendy intends to stick to her guns."

A source close to Wendy Alexander commenting on her wanting a referendum as soon as possible and Mr Brown saying there should be a review when the Calman commission reports.

"At a stroke, Gordon Brown has destroyed her (Wendy Alexander's] leadership – and placed serious questions over his own."

Deputy First Minister Nicola Sturgeon

"Anyone who listened to Wendy Alexander's remarks could be in no doubt that she meant a referendum should be held – and it shouldn't be delayed. To pretend otherwise is once again treating people like fools."

David Cameron, the Conservative leader, in a letter to Gordon Brown

"You do not understand this important issue relating to Scotland and the Union."

Gordon Brown, in reply to Mr Cameron's letter

So what now? The seven paths party can choose

DAVID MADDOX
SCOTTISH POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT


What can Labour now do to heal the rift? Several options are possible.

• Gordon Brown orders Wendy Alexander to resign. Technically, he does not have the power to sack her, but Mr Brown, as the man who made her, could probably finish her. This is unlikely, given that she is a friend and key ally. It would also allow the SNP to portray Mr Brown as the man who thwarted democracy.

• Ms Alexander quits. Again unlikely since she has shown no sign of being willing to relinquish her job in the wake of donation scandals and ineptitude in parliament. She and her aides are spinning that there is no disagreement.

• Labour MSPs tell Wendy to go. There are some who would like her job, but there are question marks over whether Labour MSPs have the backbone to wield the knife. Also, the referendum policy is no longer just Ms Alexander's but is that of the whole Labour group.

• Mr Brown quits. He has waited his whole life to be prime minister and will not give up without a fight. He may go only if a stalking-horse leadership candidate inflicts damage on his authority in the party.

• Carry on regardless. Despite Ms Alexander's position appearing to be untenable and Mr Brown's very shaky, this is still the most likely option, possibly leading to electoral disaster for Labour in 2010 and 2011.

• Ms Alexander's position moves full circle. This would involve her coming out against a referendum and would destroy any lasting credibility she has left.

• Mr Brown does a U-turn – This may yet happen, where he or his spin doctors come out and say that he was misunderstood and that he had backed Wendy all the time on a referendum question. However, he has historically shown little willingness to compromise in this way.

The full article contains 2363 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

 
1

Still Believing,

08/05/2008 00:07:25
Oh what a surprise. Wendy going off message from London. Or is that London going off message from Wendy?

When will Scotland wake up and realise that Labour have only their own interests at heart, not the voters.

WAKE UP SCOTLAND. There is a choice beyond Labour.


( ps its not the SNP )
2

Paul in Oz,

Helensburgh 08/05/2008 00:11:46
However, a source close to Ms Alexander admitted to The Scotsman: "There is a difference between them (Ms Alexander and Mr Brown] on that bit (waiting for the Calman commission], but Wendy intends to stick to her guns."

LOL THAT source is probably some fat chain smoking hack sitting there making it all up, the reporting in this paper beggars belief, oh well over to the herald where the real reporting takes place..........
3

Dileas,

08/05/2008 00:13:24
If ever there was a demonstration of Gordon Brown's lack of moral fibre or duplicity or sheer ineptness, this has to be it. As for Wendy ...

I used to think that Westminster labour was fag-end government but now understand that it is totally lacking in any kind of ability, morality or even just sense of reality.

Now We all realise that it is just totally discredited, good only for imposing fines, bans and taxes on the very people it was elected to look out for.

The best thing that Gordon can do now for the electorate is call a General Election before he looks even more inept. The question is, could he even make a decision to go to the country?
4

Angus Ogg,

08/05/2008 00:17:37

WOW,

Watching Wendy Alexander, Gordon Brown and Ian Gray twitching through a nervous tv interview is like watching a slow motion car crash. The Scotsman has it right on the money - Labour is imploding in front of our very eyes.

Then Alex Salmond is interviewed. Cool, calm and collected, whilst Gordon Brewer looked nervous and sweaty. Last question to Alex by Brewer.... "have Labour now moved the SNP closer to their goal of Independence?"

Alex Salmond replied: "straight answer, yes".

Damn straight.

Ever since May 2007 Scottish politics has become very interesting again.

By the way, did anyone see Jack McConnell at Holyrood? Looked well, tanned, rested and a big smile. Maybe he is getting his old job back as leader of SLAB.

5

Danny Mather,

Edinburgh 08/05/2008 00:20:12
Wendy is foolish and inept. Is this news? Pity more people don't watch Newsnight. Eck p!ssed it.
6

Alfred E. Neuman,

08/05/2008 00:20:32
Wendy Alexander is a moron. She even lacks the intelligence to feel shame for championing herself as a future leader of a nation.
7

Mr A Roy,

08/05/2008 00:20:50
It's getting like coronation street with these muppets, stay tuned for tomorrows thrilling episode!
8

bumpkin,

08/05/2008 00:22:17
This is more fun than the goon show!
Wendy, is she or isnt she?
Gordon, does he or doesnt he?

After thursday, Wendy,s penny has finally dropped that she is going to be unemployed fairly soon, along with Gordon Brown.
She has hit the panic button as the SNP soar in the polls and labour go into meltdown.
Couldnt happen to nicer people.
Mr Salmond ribs must be hurting from laughter by now.
9

ochone,

Sauchie, Clack's 08/05/2008 00:22:39
1* oh yes it is

It it wasn't bad enough Wendy Alexander coming up with this in the first place, to find out now, that she, the LEADER of the main opposition party at Holyrood doesn't even know how the rules work and didn't even think to check them out first, speaks volumes.

Scotland I trust you are watching all this.


What's really chilling is the thought that if things had been a little different last May, folk like her would be running things now!

BTW, Am I the only one who gets the impression that much of the fury directed at Wendy and her crew from journalists & the media etc is because after all the support they have given her, she has shown them up too, and that is the one thing they cannot forgive!

10

Hmm ...,

08/05/2008 00:23:01
... well, this gives the lie to claims that Scottish Labour is run from London.

It's clear now that Scottish Labour, like its English parent, is not run from anywhere! It just richochets from one mishap to the next debacle.

Fag end government? Don't flatter them!

Labour is terminally discredited in England as it has been in Scotland since the 2007 elections - coincidence? Don't delude yourself!
11

Colkitto,

River Clyde 08/05/2008 00:24:11
There is no difference between Gordon or Wendy, they totally agree."

– Lord George Foulkes

Brill ! That gave me a laugh. Not as big a laugh as Iain Grey on Newsnight though !!

12

EPS,

Edinburgh 08/05/2008 00:25:28
Regardless of my political affiliation, one thing is clear to me. The SNP have, in practice, an enormous advantage in Scottish politics. Namely, they are the only major party in Scottish politics who are not fettered by political masters in London.
13

,

08/05/2008 00:27:19
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
14

A Friend of Alternative Mighty Mario Voltaire,

08/05/2008 00:31:58
Annabel Goldie has a lot to offer Scotland.

She is the only Scottish leader who can command respect from the sad excuse of a first meenister.
15

Boggle fey the Bog,

08/05/2008 00:32:18
#1 Aye yer right there, there is a choice beyond Labour, and it ain't any of the Unionist parties!!!!

What a shambles, how can anyone ever believe anything this pair of clowns say ever again.

It increasingly looks like both the UUendy and Gordo are members of the 'Duck and Cover' school of politics!!

I see that Gorbals Mick has tried to close the door on charges of Gordo 'misleading the house' over the SNP's timing of any referendum on Scottish Independence. But he may not have the power to do that!

Such a Parcel of Rogues indeed.
16

A Friend of Alternative Mighty Mario Voltaire,

08/05/2008 00:33:19
#10,

G Broon is proving, hour by hour, that he couldn't run a bath.
17

Andrew BOD,

Aberdeen/shire 08/05/2008 00:34:06
12 EPS
Good comment, on the money.

Furthermore, it's precisely because they are not fettered by political masters in London that they are making a better job of governing Scotland. The only London distraction they have is the Labour Government's scandalous act of with-holding monies due to Scotland. Disgraceful.
18

,

08/05/2008 00:34:27
Comment Removed By Administrator
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19

Guga II,

Rockall 08/05/2008 00:35:23
If nothing else, this total farce proves the point that London controls the New Labour Sleaze and Corruption Party (North British Branch).

It also proves the point that they, and their political masters in London, are liars and charlatans, and are not fit to manage a kindergarten sweetie jar let alone run a government.

I notice that our Unionistas, like AM Squared and similar, are very noticeable by their absence over the past day or two. Even they can't lie their way out of this farce.
20

Highland Mighty,

08/05/2008 00:36:30
One thing they all have in common?

They are ALL Scots!

We're all dooooomed!!
21

Highland Mighty,

08/05/2008 00:38:48
19. We have jobs and lives, you know!

We really do have better things to do than blitz the Scotsman and Herald websites, all day, every day and under multiple usernames!

LOL!
22

Boggle fey the Bog,

08/05/2008 00:40:06
14 A Friend of Alternative Mighty Mario Voltaire,08/05/2008 00:31:58

Like what?

Annabel may be the best 'leader' that the Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party has had in the last few years, but she is still a Tory, and the people of Scotland have had it up to the back teeth with Torie governments, we have been ruled by the Tories for the last 90 years, and they haven't done us much good at all.

If Big Bella really wants to help Scotland she will back the SNP bill on a referendum on the future governance of Scotland, if she doesn't then she'll just be another 'also ran'.
23

Senga Jean,

08/05/2008 00:44:53
I cannot find it in me to see this as amusing. I once respected the Labour Party and believed that they defended the people of Scotland against the excesses of capitalism. They cannot do that if they have and continue to make fools of themselves. I think this fiasco will hasten the day of Independence for Scotland. Why? Because I actually do listen to what people are saying.
24

Senga Jean,

08/05/2008 00:46:58
Highland Mighty is NOT Scots then. HMMM
25

Scotindy,

Los Angeles 08/05/2008 00:47:18
It's not very often that I am stuck for something to say, but this labour party mess is really amazing, are these people really in power governing the Dis united Kingdom? What a shambles, anyone ever voting for that SHOWER OF IDIOTS in the future should be escorted off the premises in a white coat.
26

Conan the Librarian™,

08/05/2008 00:47:50
21
AM2 admitted he didn't have a job.Kimba has a part-time one.Niko goes shopping to Tescos a lot and babysits his grandbairn.
Looks like you must be the one with a job.
27

FrancesP,

08/05/2008 00:49:28
#21. Highland Mighty - "We have jobs and lives, you know!

We really do have better things to do than blitz the Scotsman and Herald websites, all day, every day and under multiple usernames!"

Well said. You just blitz the Scotsman website all day, every day under the same username. So that's totally different.

LOL!
28

A Friend of Alternative Mighty Mario Voltaire,

08/05/2008 00:49:41
#22,

Forget Maggie Thatcher. For she can't remember what she did any more and probably wets her pants on a regular basis. That's old age for you.

Annabel is an old-fashioned Scottish Unionist with a social conscience. Just like Scottish Tories of old.
29

A Friend of Alternative Mighty Mario Voltaire,

08/05/2008 00:51:06
#21,

You could have fooled me!
30

Conan the Librarian™,

08/05/2008 00:51:41
27
You "scooped" my next post...
31

Yeti,

08/05/2008 00:54:29
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/page/item/b00b97dk.shtml?q=newsnight&start=1&scope=iplayersearch&go=Find+Programmes&version_pid=b00b97cg

enjoy :)
32

ochone,

Sauchie,Clack's 08/05/2008 00:54:42
If anyone else has read the devastating article on Wendy's latest blunder over on the Times site by Lorraine Davidson, could they tell me, (if they know), if that is the same one who used to be the director of communications for the Labour party in Scotland?


If it is, then I think I am right in saying that she was also responsible for Jack McConnell’s biog'

I wonder if a few debts are being repaid in the grand old Labour style?

It’s well worth a read anyway?
33

Rev. S. Campbell,

Bath 08/05/2008 00:54:49
Newsnight was AMAZING tonight. Superb performance by Brewer - at one point Iain Gray was reduced to helpless stammering and looking around desperately in panic for an exit. I won't have any allegations of bias, he asked both sides the hard questions that you'd want asked, the difference is that Salmond's answers were direct, relevant and assured, while Labour were evasive, twitchy and just came across as plain dishonest. Brewer's exasperation by the end was obviously real.
34

ochone,

Sauchie, Clack's 08/05/2008 00:57:38
What is really chilling is to think that if things had been a bit different last May these clowns would have been running Scotland............right into the ground.

Night, night all.
35

Royster,

08/05/2008 00:57:56
Hooray! Gordon, please close Holyrood at the stroke of a pen. It's always been a dog's breakfast, cack-handed and ill-thought out. How can you have 2 parliaments in one country?
36

Samoyed,

Costa del Menie 08/05/2008 00:58:33
To be more inept or incompetent, Bendy and Broon would need extra training.

Alex Salmond just named them the best secret SNP members ever, and awarded them the Great Cross of St. Andrews for their efforts in bringing independence to Scotland.

Will Bendy show her snout tomorrow at FM questions? or will she pull a sicky?

Can't wait till noon.
37

A Friend of Alternative Mighty Mario Voltaire,

08/05/2008 00:58:50
#33,

I disagree.

Salmond is looking to his next job as an advisor to the CEO of Gogar.
38

Andrew BOD,

Aberdeen/shire 08/05/2008 00:59:29
Highland

Nothing to say of any substance again Mr Mighty?

What can you say I suppose? It's all a bit of a unionist mess.
39

karinxxx,

08/05/2008 01:00:42
35 yes i always thought england shouldnt have bothe the lords and westminster.
40

karinxxx,

08/05/2008 01:02:13
anyway just finished watching iain grey on newsnight i thougt he was going to start jerking his head to the side to go along with the eye twitching thing. comical really comical. brewer was totally exasperated.
41

,

08/05/2008 01:04:12
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42

,

08/05/2008 01:11:41
Comment Removed By Administrator
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43

Richard Lionheart,

08/05/2008 01:17:43
Well done Wendy. More of what we have come to expect of you.

Vote, Iain Gray for Leader of Scottish Labour.
44

,

08/05/2008 01:18:17
Comment Removed By Administrator
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45

,

08/05/2008 01:18:50
Comment Removed By Administrator
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46

karinxxx,

08/05/2008 01:24:01
Labour implodes

is this the hootsman?
47

Conan the Librarian™,

08/05/2008 01:27:40
47
Aye Karin.Great eh?
48

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 08/05/2008 01:30:43
She Looked,..'WELL EMBARRASSED' on her TV interview,..

'POOR SOUL'!
49

,

08/05/2008 01:31:14
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50

Edward,

08/05/2008 01:33:52
What I find amazing apart from Labour going into complete meltdown. Is the languague used by Labour
Its not about talking up and puting forwarding a possitive arguement for retaining the union. Its all about putting the SNP down, attacking an basically telling lies on the way.
51

Edward,

08/05/2008 01:36:40
Watched Newsnight Scotland, thought Iain Gray was starting to panic as his composure changed and started to glance to the side looking for the exit, just classic
52

Conan the Librarian™,

08/05/2008 01:37:20
41
LOL Sweating, stuttering, swivel eyed circumvention.
53

Guga II,

Rockall 08/05/2008 01:43:21
#24 Senga Jean.

Highland Midgie, like Royster and AM Squared, is not Scottish, that is patently obvious. The fact that they try and disguise their actual origin is simple deception.
54

Conan the Librarian™,

08/05/2008 01:50:00
55
And does he have a job?
I have sometimes wondered, HM being so obnoxious, is either a SNP plant or a hootsman journo making sure the independence posts get plenty hits.

Or he's just a
55

Matt there,

somewhere 08/05/2008 01:52:25
Not very good. 0 out of 10, Wendy.

As for Gordon? He is into minus figures now...
56

bill inch,

EDINBURGH 08/05/2008 01:56:56
She should have gone after the jersey debacle. now a pathetic attemp to reengage while at the same time dumping Brown as i said pathetic
57

Glaswegian,

Glasgow 08/05/2008 02:11:53

Just watched the Labour spokesman on Newsnight Scotland.

Oh dear.
58

,

08/05/2008 02:17:27
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59

Canada,

southampton 08/05/2008 02:22:45
PLEASE COME BACK JACK, ALL IS FORGIVEN.
60

KampungHighlander,

Jakarta 08/05/2008 04:02:05
Could this all be a cunning plot by Brown to sink the SNP's recruiting sergeant?

Did he tell Wendy he would back her, only to leave out in no mans land with no covering fire?

His minions would perplexed if he had openly tried to remove, who has always been a loyal henchman.

Is this actually Browns way of riding himself of Wendy in the hopes of getting someone more competent to lead Scottish Labour?

Scottish Politics is certainly a lot more interesting since Sunday.
61

KampungHighlander,

Jakarta 08/05/2008 04:25:30
Wendy is finished.

Not only has she completely embarrased herself, but she has done it by embarking on a strategy that can be completed. Did nobody in her team realize that she can't submit a bill on a subject that has already been put to the house for study?

Her biggest mistake has been not consulting her Unionist allies. In a parliament whose very nature is coalition government, will any other party leader ever trust Wendy again?

Don't think Annabel Goldie will. Shes old school.
Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.
62

Navvy,

08/05/2008 05:05:12
#23 Sad, Sad, Senga

I never respected the Labour Party though they have had some worthy members, very few of late

Broon and Wendy - both untenable as are their parties old Nu or whateffer
63

innesm,

Austin, Texas 08/05/2008 05:13:38
What would be Wendy's role in an independent Scotland? What would any of the Unionist party's role be? Campaigning to rejoin the Union?
64

terry osser,

morden 08/05/2008 05:28:12
the labor mob have run england right into the ground
65

democracy,

Scottish Borders 08/05/2008 05:43:54
#1 still believing, you said, WAKE UP SCOTLAND. There is a choice beyond Labour. ( ps its not the SNP )

So are you saying to us that it's one of the 16 seat parties? Yer havin a laff arent ye??
66

KampungHighlander,

Jakarta 08/05/2008 05:47:54
Does anyone know if it is possible to watch First Ministers Questions over the Internet?

Today should be pure Dynamite. Almost worth the expence of flying back to Scotland just to watch.
67

Rulesbutnotrulers,

Federation, not separation 08/05/2008 06:08:48
Wendy's wrong-footed both Brown and Salmond. Not difficult, granted; but neither has answers for her.

What do we want? Independence!

When do we want it? Er, um, och, well, yer see, Oh mah heids nippin'.
68

Pilrig.,

Livingston 08/05/2008 06:15:22
dear oh dear oh dear
69

Ubi,

Edinburgh 08/05/2008 06:33:49
The SNP surely doesn't want to drive Wendy Alexander out of her job? Ms Alexander is much more valuable left in there digging for as long as possible.

Nicola Sturgeon might want to reign back from all out attack and try a little public sympathy, Labour party obviously going through a period of difficulty, not for me to get involved in Labour party power struggles, wish Wendy well da da da...
70

Normal!,

Highland 08/05/2008 06:53:12
Motormouth strikes again!!!
71

Jock ex 45Cdo RM,

THORNHILL 08/05/2008 06:57:31
#1 SNP is the only party with Scots and Scotland at heart.
Thornhill allotments rule
72

Richard Taylor,

Aberdeen 08/05/2008 07:04:29
Wendy Alexander couldn't run a fancy dress party, never mind any political party.

She is unemployable.

My God, Scotland needs to run its own affairs, Unionism has done nothing for the people of Scotland except hold them back in poverty.
73

Gammaracanthuskytodermogammarus,

08/05/2008 07:12:48
Salmond needs 3 years to have a national conversation on independence. 3 years? And he supposedly gets straight to the point!

What do we want? "Independence"
When do we want it?
"Am no really sure, but no too soon".
74

steve 1511,

aberdeen 08/05/2008 07:12:56
you cannot believe a word that comes out of broons mouth,you cannot believe a word that comes out of wendy the eejits mouth,the labour party corruption at every level
75

Phillip,

08/05/2008 07:23:29
Wow, I didn't think it was possible for a major political party that has run a nation for this many years to manage to destroy itself, it's positions, and it's credibility quite this fast. Yet Labour has manage to do it in under a week!

I'm beginning to wonder if Wendy & Broon aren't really SNP moles who infiltrated Labour and worked their way up the ranks for the sole purpose of wrecking the party just as the Scottish people are ready to move forward with independence.
76

Independence? Bring it On!,

08/05/2008 07:24:43
#41 Wardog

Ha ha ha Iain Gray's chin must afford his toes plenty of shade. I like where this is goin'! Giggidy, giggidy, gig-gi-dy! Good to know he speaks Portuguese, I suspect he'll be spending a lot of time on the Algarve, when he's turfed out at the next Holyrood election.

I'm a bit like Scotindy, in that I'm stumped as to what daily scorn to pour on the WENDY and Broon this morning. It's as if I'm all spoffed out...They've done it all on their own. Not even the venerable Hootsman have been able to spin this DISASTER positively.

All that's left are the few remaining dribbling mentalists like Mighty to defend the indefensible.


Ah a day on the beach beckons. The joy of a sunny fresher, brighter, better Scotland.
77

Rulesbutnotrulers,

Federation, not separation 08/05/2008 07:25:00
The alternative to vote for is federalism, not nationalism.
78

Richardinho,

08/05/2008 07:27:24
The hapless Wendy Alexander is a very fitting metaphor for unionist Scotland. The fault for this is entirely her doing because she failed to consult Gordon Brown before expressing her own opinion. If you opt for subsevience, then you must be subservient. And that means if you show the slightest bit of indepedent thought which goes against the line from the centre, then you should expect to be slapped down and humiliated as Wendy has been.

79

Bob Christie,

08/05/2008 07:30:53
The death of the Liebour Party is a great recruiting sergeant for the the cause of Independence.

EITHER Wendy OR Broon is clearly a LIAR! Yet both have the effrontery to continue in office.
80

Independence? Bring it On!,

08/05/2008 07:31:47
Oh before I forget,

"You just handed Alex Salmond all the cards, the card table and the casino"

Gordon Brewer Newsnicht Scotland 7/5/2008 to Iain 'Quagmire' Gray

81

Richardinho,

08/05/2008 07:33:00
'The alternative to vote for is federalism, not nationalism.'

No, that is the weak, wishy-washy option.
82

brownlie,

08/05/2008 07:33:39
83 Rules

Yes, us unionists have considered federalism but we did not think a dozen or so votes would make any difference.
83

ClosetJambo,

08/05/2008 07:44:08
Labour are indeed imploding.

Wendy will cling on as long as she can but when Broon goes, so does that conniving little weasel Doogie Alexander. Once Bendy's brother isn't in the playground to look after her it's just a matter of time.

There is only one party capable and willing to defend the interests of people living in Scotland and that, without a doubt, is the SNP.
84

JimC,

Kilmarnock 08/05/2008 07:48:51
73
I think your on the wrong page mate, or is that planet??
85

Dave from Barra ©,

Western Isles 08/05/2008 07:50:14
Rules AKA Tim Flinn

Better get yourself to the letters page to defend your letter that people are ripping into!
86

conservative,

Fife 08/05/2008 07:55:18
Labour revealed for what it is - no leadership, no policies and no future. Once the older generation of die-hard card-carrying Labourites dies out so will this ineffective party. The only question is how long it will take the country to recover from their spendthrift bumbling.
87

brownlie,

08/05/2008 08:02:14
92 conservative

Sad but true - glad to see that we've still got one conservative left in Fife to uphold our unionist cause.
88

Jimmy the Pie,

08/05/2008 08:07:49
Did anyone see New Labour Sleaze and Corruption MP Jimmy Hood on SKY last night saying both Comrade Broon and Red Wendy were right. Came across as a complete idiot. Then started getting aggressive when pushed on the matter.
I'm glad I don't have to clean his cage oot!!!!
89

far enough away from skotland to feel safe...,

paris 08/05/2008 08:23:29
Watching the Labour party isn't just a spectator sport as Big Eck says, more like a blood sport (do you feel sorry for the vermin as they're chased into the undergrowth?)...
90

Phil C,

08/05/2008 08:24:26
I'm no fan of Labour or unionism, but I don't really see how Bendy's position is untenable. She's always been a bit dim and dishonest, and an asset to the SNP. She seemed to be discovering the art of honesty and democracy with her recent mouthings...and what a mouthing she's got!

The person who's position is untenable is Oor Gordy, sticking his big conk into affairs that should be left to his Scottish party. He is standing in the way of a completely democratic and transparent referendum as proposed by the SNP and seconded (with a twist) by Labour in Scotland. Unfortunately Brown is also a huge asset to Salmond, but go he must.

As for the undemocratic shysters that go by the Tory/Fibdem labels, their position has been untenable for years. They could go some way to redeeming themselves by backing the SNP's referendum and forgetting about the wastrels that are Labour and their irresponsible squabbles.
91

North Enclosure ER,

HUNGERFORD 08/05/2008 08:26:14
#1 Must be the Liberal Democrats or The Greens it certianly isn't the Tories - Scotland will never elect a Conservative Government.
92

Boy Wonder,

08/05/2008 08:27:57
Nu Labour has been and continues to spontaneously combust and implode every day since they lost the election last May. Over the border, they just ain't up to the job!
93

inoui,

Fife 08/05/2008 08:30:43
I feel sorry for our neighbours in the south. The political choices are dire, full of confusion and bickering. At least Scotland has a party interested in Scotland and not jumping every time Westminster farts.
94

Auld Twa,

Edinburgh 08/05/2008 08:31:12
Watch FMQ, "the seal clubbing" today live at -
http://www.holyrood.tv/index.asp
You can also see last weeks duffing of Wendy by Nicola Sturgeon on -
http://www.holyrood.tv/library.asp?iPid=3§ion=30&title=First+Minister%27s+Questions
95

Ken S.,

Reading 08/05/2008 08:34:32
G.Broon:
"Which way did they go,? Where are they?
I must find them -- I am their leader"
96

Draco Was a Wimp,

Edinburgh 08/05/2008 08:35:18
It's very cruel to intrude on private grief.
97

KampungHighlander,

Jakarta 08/05/2008 08:36:42
#81
"I'm beginning to wonder if Wendy & Broon aren't really SNP moles who infiltrated Labour and worked their way up the ranks for the sole purpose of wrecking the party just as the Scottish people are ready to move forward with independence."

Well you are half right on that one.

Gordon Brown was kidnapped in 1967 by a crack SNP snatch squad led by Sir Sean Connery. After playing the super spy James Bond in a number of films Sir Sean wanted a go at the real thing.

The other members of the team where the famous Stone of Scone snatch squad, Ian Hamilton, Gavin Vernon, Kay Matheson and Alan Stuart.

The cover story was that Brown was receiving treatment for a detached retina that was caused by being kicked in the head while playing rugby at Kircaldy High School.

He was in fact given experimental brain washing therapy by Doctor Timothy Leary.

He has since been known at SNP Headquarters as the Kircaldy Candidate.

Wendy Alexander and Her Brother are actually working for the other side.

They where recruited into the British-American Project, a secret CIA front organization designed to ensure th