Help Sitemap Home Skip Navigation Contact Us Disability Statement

 
 
Wednesday, 20th August 2008

Premium Article !

Your account has been frozen. For your available options click the below button.

Options

Premium Article !

To read this article in full you must have registered and have a Premium Content Subscription with the Edinburgh Evening News site.

Subscribe

Registered Article !

To read this article in full you must be registered with the site.

MSPs award themselves rise in allowances ahead of vote



Click on thumbnail to view image
Click on thumbnail to view image
Click on thumbnail to view image
Click on thumbnail to view image
Click on thumbnail to view image

Published Date: 11 June 2008
MSPs have quietly awarded themselves an increase in expenses, even before a controversial new scheme is debated, it emerged today.
A report by an independent panel earlier this year proposed an overhaul of allowances, including a plan to give constituency MSPs £62,000 a year for staff costs while their regional list colleagues would receive £45,000 because of a supposedly lighte
r workload.

The Scottish Parliament will vote on the panel's recommendations tomorrow. It is expected to agree to give all MSPs the same level of staff allowance.

But because the panel's report was published in March, before the start of the new financial year, the cross-party Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body has taken the opportunity to increase all the amounts by inflation.

The proposal to be put to the parliament tomorrow now includes staff allowances of £64,300 for constituency MSPs and £46,700 for list members.

The amendment likely to be passed by MSPs to equalise the allowance will also be based on an "uprated" figure. That would give all MSPs a staff allowance of around £56,600.

A senior Labour MSP said: "This is a back-door increase. Everyone has been talking about the figures set out in the report and then suddenly we find they have been uprated."

The proposed levels of other allowances have also been increased. The maximum annual amount that can be claimed for overnight accommodation in Edinburgh has gone up from £11,400 to £11,900. The annual limit on office costs has risen from £15,000 to £15,600, and the maximum claim allowed for surgery advertising costs has increased from £1500 a year to £1560 a year.

The move to ensure all MSPs receive the same staff allowance is expected to be backed by the SNP, the Tories, the Greens and independent Lothians MSP Margo MacDonald – which should be enough to ensure it wins.

The Liberal Democrats are likely to have a free vote, leaving only Labour backing the differential proposed by the panel, chaired by Dundee University principal Sir Alan Langlands.

Labour chief whip Jackie Baillie said the party preferred to support the recommendations of an independent review rather than a "backroom fix" drawn up by politicians.

She hinted that Labour was also considering trying to block the uprating of the allowances.

She said: "Our position has always been Langlands as it is. We never anticipated that Langlands would be uprated."

But one parliament source defended the uprating as only following the panel's recommendations. He said: "The Langlands report was received before April 1, but he concluded the rates should be uprated every year."





The full article contains 444 words and appears in Edinburgh Evening News newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 11 June 2008 11:15 AM
  • Source: Edinburgh Evening News
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: The Scottish Parliament
 
1

Capital Boy,

11/06/2008 12:02:25
parasites, the lot of them !!!
2

Hibernia,

11/06/2008 12:04:25
Bloody disgrace. Being a civil servant myself we have just been told our annual pay rise will be delayed (again) and even then it is 2% below the rate of inflation so is actually an annual pay cut so the MSPs getting this is a disgrace.
3

Papa? Nicole! Papa?,

11/06/2008 12:05:50
These people should be swinging from lampposts.

It is utterly despicable that they should leech even more cash from us. It is our hard earned money they are wasting, and our hard earned money they are using to feather their nests.

They work for us, and it is time they were reminded of that.
4

Grahamski,

Falkirk 11/06/2008 12:09:54
It's typical that even when an independent review reports that constituency MSPs work harder than list MSps and need more funds the nats reject it. Could that be because their government is propped up by second-choice, back-door list MSPs?
5

Paddi,

11/06/2008 12:10:17
Their inflation increase is 4% and yet the politicians demand that public and private sector increases be in line with CPI inflation, 2.5% in March.

More snouts in the trough, "feeling the pain of the ordinary people" I don't think so,.

The politician class/elite grabbing what they can.
6

Gastric Antral Vascular Ectasia,

11/06/2008 12:30:06
What is the opposite of MSPs "quietly" awarding themselves an increase in expenses? "Loudly" awarding them? "Noisily"?
7

Caley80,

Bethersden 11/06/2008 12:32:53
This makes my blood boil. The sheer hypocrisy of these 'people' is beyond belief. The whole area of expenses for ALL public servants etc. should be stopped until some honesty prevails. Mind you honesty and politicians are at opposite ends of the spectrum.
8

Stan Dup,

11/06/2008 12:51:13
#6 the opposite is MSPs quietly not awarding themselves an increase in expenses. A bit unlikely don't you think. Greedy to$$ers.
9

,

11/06/2008 12:52:03
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
10

Voice of reason,

EDINBURGH 11/06/2008 12:53:13
People who voted " yes " - I hope you are very quiet now .
11

Scotish Exile,

11/06/2008 12:57:37
#10

spot on, I voted "NO" "NO" and am proud of that fact, the numpties that voted "yes" "yes" are to blame, don't blame the greedy pigs that we have as MSP's
12

Voice of reason,

EDINBURGH 11/06/2008 13:00:20
I say time to abolish Holyrood ......oh the abuse I got last time I said this !!
13

Epicuras,

11/06/2008 13:06:24
and MSPs (and politicians in general) wonder why nobody bothers to vote anymore and regard. them with complete contempt. An absolute discracful state of affairs - sack the lot of them and rip that dump of a building/parliament down, leaving the rubble there as a reminder of what this stupid parliament is actually worth
14

open,

west coast 11/06/2008 13:10:14
From one group of political parasites at Westminster the UK has three now.MSP's at Holyrood and MEP's in Brussels.
The political class are creating for themselves multi tier systems to expand the dynasties they are creating.Jobs for their sons and daughters.

The same for the legal parasites who rely on ever expanding criminality to ensure the legal aid gravy train funds not only the old timers but the sons,daughters,grandsons and granddaughters of the legal dynasties that have been getting away with MURDER for far to long.

Only the removal of the English crown lackeys will see a restoration of peoples rights .Not the political and legal scum that are manipulating our laws for their own financial gain.

Watch the Juri Lina video that exposes the real reason for so much corruption within the political and legal systems of the UK and especially Scotland.

http://video.google.com/googleplayer.swf?docId=7652891847477492406

Join the growing resistance movement against corruption and tyranny.

LJPR LEGAL JUDICIAL POLITICAL REFORMERS

Masonic judges OUT Juries IN
15

ThomasP,

11/06/2008 13:26:34
12 Voice of reason,EDINBURGH

You can say it all you want. It is never going to happen.
16

roughrider,

Glasgow 11/06/2008 13:36:08
I remember ubendy,s first question when the SNP kicked her and her bunch of parasites into opposition was to ask for more money.
Seems the scum have got their way.
Fukcin parasites.
17

morris,

edinburgh 11/06/2008 13:38:00
Grahamski,Falkirk 11/06/2008
The increase applies to everybody and an all party majority would have to support this presumably since the SNP are a minority. You really do come out with some incredibly stupid comments!This is either justifiable or not (both being possible) but its not the work of the SNP when this is arithmetically impossible is it? Mind you,we are still trying to get it into your skull that New Labour cannot win so its not exactly a surprise.
18

morris,

edinburgh 11/06/2008 13:43:20
12 You are perfectly entitled to say that,but I would question the wisdom of doing so since there would appear to be only you who favours it,or precious close to that figure.
I would like to abolish Westminster or at least Scotlands involvement so in that respect we are not so different. The major difference being that the number agreeing with me is increasing according to opinion polls and the number agreeing with you would be decreasing if that were possible!
19

LVT,

Edinburgh 11/06/2008 13:43:47
I'm laughing at the idea of the "independent" Langlands review. Nothing to do with the Langlands who helped put together the pro-union propaganda advert during the 2007 election, then?
20

Duncan in Edinburgh,

11/06/2008 13:48:27
#17 Morris for pity's sake grow some.

The SNP voted for this increase. Labour are voting against.

You cannot spin your way out of it.
21

steve 1511,

aberdeen 11/06/2008 13:51:55
jackie buffet bailie says,she and wendy the bung are considering blocking the increases,and coos might fly her waist and the size of wendys gob prove they will swallow evry perk they can get
22

tomias,

Edinburgh 11/06/2008 13:51:58
All expenses should be signed off by a competant senior official and the years total publish; all causes to incur expenses being previously agreed bu independent advisors from the private sector.
Deviations and ant fraus an immediate p45-prosecution to follow after the PF has had a wee peek at the evidence.
23

Smasher,

On the dole 11/06/2008 13:52:05
In todays climate of cutbacks and a tight grip on public service pay they go ahead and do this. They have no shame these people. Their arrogance is beyond belief. If the Scottish parliment fell down tomorrow who would care? Who would notice? The only thing I would worry about is the number of the blood sucking leeches who were inside eating and drinking their subsidised grub when it collapsed on top of them. And finally. They can't figure out why the number of people bothering to vote in elections is falling. Have a guess. The fact that ALL politicians of all parties are a bunch of greedy, arrogant, greedy, smug, greedy b4stards might have something to do with it. I'd rather eat my toe nail clippings, no make that Anne Widdecombes toe nail clippings than vote for any of these greedy pigs.
24

Yeah1,

11/06/2008 14:04:00
#17 Morris:

"an all party majority would have to support this presumably since the SNP are a minority"

Did you even read this article before commenting on it? If you did you would have seen the sentence below:

'The move to ensure all MSPs receive the same staff allowance is expected to be backed by the SNP, the Tories, the Greens and independent Lothians MSP Margo MacDonald – which should be enough to ensure it wins.'

Not ALL parties are voting for this, only the ones mentioned above.
25

Ghengis McCann,

Edinburgh 11/06/2008 14:15:09
Unsurprising absence of the usual Braveheart apologists on this one. That'll be because the Gnats, the majority of whose MSPs are list MSPs elected under the assisted places scheme, and who are only in power because of a combination of the Smug One's oily "Salmond for FM" trick on the list ballot paper, and picking up the list seats going spare following the SSP's self-immolation, are the ones pushing the equal allowances for all.

Labour are pushing for the fair recommendations of the report to be implemented, but as Labour is the only Party with a majority of proper FPTP MSPs, the self-interest of the list MSPs in the other Parties will win out. Anyone who knows anything about the SP knows that all the list MSPs just use their allowances to campaign against the real Constituency MSPs between elections. They don't have any constituents or any real work to do.

The usual suspects are already on here to spin how it's all Labour's fault, despite the fact that the Gnats and their fellow travellers are the ones with their noses deep in the trough here.
26

Stephen Cowley,

Edinburgh 11/06/2008 14:16:38
A well deserved increase and probably not enough. We should be glad to fund democratic debate.
27

morris,

edinburgh 11/06/2008 14:20:33
17

I am saying that a majority will decide.
That is self explanatory and cannot be anything else.

Labour can well afford to vote against something when they know the combined vote may carry it through.If you cant understand that what can you understand?

You said and I quote :
It's typical that even when an independent review reports that constituency MSPs work harder than list MSps and need more funds the nats reject it.

The party with the highest number of consituency members are the SNP and now you criticise that they support it?
Which are you saying?
Both by the look of it!(its there for all to see)
Disagree with me is your right, Defeat yourself is pretty dumb I would have thought.
28

dude,

wishaw 11/06/2008 14:26:15
Haw Ghengis McCann,Edinburgh

the reaseon the SNP got more votes is because more people voted to have Alex Salmond as first minister not because of some supposed scam your infantile brain has come up with, get real or go away
29

Grahamski,

Falkirk 11/06/2008 14:28:42
17
'The party with the highest number of consituency members are the SNP '
I think you'll find that the Labour Party have almost double the amount of properly voted constituency MSPs than the nats who rely on the second-choice list MSPs to prop up their administration.
It is a travesty of democracy that the SNP can have MSPs who have been rejected at the ballot box smuggled in through the backdoor of the lists.
Linda Fabiani stood for election in EK and lost. Did she listen to the electorate? Not a chance, the nats know better and she got in and there she sits in government giving the EK electorate the finger.
No wonder the nats are laughing, most of their MSPs can forget about proper constituency business and concentrate on spending public money funding their re-election and undermining the properly elected constituency MSP.
30

Yeah1,

11/06/2008 14:29:19
#27

You original statement was an "All-party majority would have to support this", which I would say is self explanatory and cannot be anything else.

Now, however, you have backtracked to just a 'majority', make up your mind would you.
31

Joe,

Livingston 11/06/2008 14:30:10
Voters have to know what MSPs voted for and against. I'd hate to be voting for a greedy barsteward MSP who
put their snout in the latest re-filled trough.
32

morris,

edinburgh 11/06/2008 14:32:47
17 Should have read the party with the highest number of constuency MPS (FPTP) are NOT the SNP. (Does make a slight difference)but the rest still applies.
I did remove that in error because of a typo (Which was not picked up by spellcheck since my typo was also a word)and I removed too much.In any case the FTTP system was changed to reflect opinion with Unionsist approval .The number of SNP constituency members is set to increase according to recent polls so I fail to see what the SNP are accused of here or why.
33

morris,

edinburgh 11/06/2008 14:39:00
30

An all party majority was meant to mean "a majority" (irrespective of which party they are drawn from including some from all parties which is perfrectly possible ) and since the SNP are a minority party by a considerable margin involvment of other parties is the only way it could happen .Its simple enough !
I backtracked on nothing .I did arithmetic plain and simple and concluded that a majority can come from a number of permutations.Its hardly rocket science !
34

Grahamski,

Falkirk 11/06/2008 14:39:32
32
Quite simply when the SNP put forward individual candidates they were rejected by the electorate. More than half their number is made up of list MSPs who were not selected by the electorate but by the party machine and elected by second-choice on the 'vote for Alex Salmond' ticket.
It made a mockery of our democracy that politicians who were rejected at the ballot box now sit in government.
35

Yeah1,

11/06/2008 14:51:31
#33

"Should have read the party with the highest number of constuency MPS (FPTP) are NOT the SNP"

"An all party majority was meant to mean "a majority""

You seem to be making a lot of mistakes, strange they seem to happen after others have pointed out what you are saying is wrong and you realise you cannot argue your way out of it - you put it down to missing out a word or strangely adding 'all party' when you actually meant 'majority'.

36

Ghengis McCann,

Edinburgh 11/06/2008 14:51:47
#28 - The Gnats did not get more votes, they got one more seat than Labour. Unlike Labour the majority of their MSPs are list MSPs, some of whom were actually beaten in their FPTP contests and are there as a consolation prize.

Labour, sensibly or otherwise, do not allow their candidates to fight FPTP seats and hedge their bets with the list as well. Had they been tricky enough to prioritise the list vote and twin-track their pet MSPs too, the result might well have been different.

The Gnats have the narrowest of majorities because they maximised the list vote with their "Salmond for FM" trick. Not just my view but that of the independent review of the Scottish Election problems, who recommended that such tricks should be outlawed next time round.

Sure, the Gnats are the largest minority Party and are in Government, mostly with the help of their new pals the Scottish Tories. But it is entirely revisionist to imply that they won a landslide victory in May 2007. They didn't. Despite Labour's abysmal leader and lacklustre performance, Labour still dropped a mere 4 seats overall. The Gnats picked up only a handful of new FPTP seats. Their slender one seat lead over Labour came from list votes - mostly SSP seats up for grabs following their disintegration.

These are the hard facts. You Braveheart fantasists might not like them, but these are the facts.
37

morris,

edinburgh 11/06/2008 14:54:14
34
The entire Westminster parliament had better resign then because precious few had 50% of the votes cast !Far more people voted against Labour than for and thats a fact so we had better remove them according to you!
Again I repeat the system used was with Unionist approval, and having lost you cannot move the goalposts now.The same will happen at the GE.
The way back? No idea but sour grapes certainly is not an adult response.
Labour face a wipeout!
Deny if you will,it will still happen !
The matter will be sorted once and for all when the next set of results come in! Labour will be struggling to form a circle ,never mind a government.Scotland will respond as she sees fit,and we are both bound by her democratic wishes.

I dont think being a lousy loser is the best advert for being fit for government so if Labour want to govern again better start behaving like somebody fit for office!
The gap grows daily and I see even less reason to touch Labour with a barge pole.
38

morris,

edinburgh 11/06/2008 15:06:07
35

No I meant a majority , since clearly a majority can be from any permutation,which is clear enough to most people ,but I agree that it could be interpreted as a majority in each and all of the parties.It would still be a majority.
I will appologise for not being absolutley clear about that,but I really could not care less what you believe to be honest.


Labour lost under the agreed system.They need to get to grips because thats nothing compared to whats coming at Westminster and you will understand the merits of FPTP trust me!
39

Ghengis McCann,

Edinburgh 11/06/2008 15:10:45
#37 - no-one is suggesting moving the goalposts, and no one is suggesting that the Gnats did not win enough seats to form a minority administration. But it is also undeniable that the Gnats got their majority via the list vote, via a sleight of hand which has been condemned by the independent review of the Election. In terms of taking Labour seats off them, the Gnats barely laid a glove on Labour in May 2007.

Your Westminster argument does not hold. It is not a requirement of UK democracy that a Party needs 50% of the vote to be legitimate. Just as well for the Gnats - far more Scots voted against them than voted for them.

The Gnats are a minority administration, with one seat more than Labour, still in power largely because they have only taken on issues which they can progress without Parliament sanction or because their new pals the Tories have been more interested in doing down Labour than in doing what might be best for the country. What the Gnats are not is an overwhelming endorsement of separation. If Smug Salmond thought otherwise, we would hove that referendum tomorrow.

Oh, and the headline to the story above should really read "Gnats award their list MSPs a rise in allowances ahead of vote". Because that's what is really happening here, however hard the Bravehearts try to spin it otherwise.
40

morris,

edinburgh 11/06/2008 15:17:06
36

If you think Salmond for First Minister is a trick and people did not realise that an SNP vote could help elect the SNP which would mean the SNP leader would become First Minister, then Thank God you aint running Scotland.
I suppose New Labour were not wanting Wendy for first minister then?
They certainly succeeeded there !
Douglarse Alexander screwed up the ballot and that is what you should address instead of still showing why you are unfit for office.
41

Ghengis McCann,

Edinburgh 11/06/2008 15:25:58
#38 - Oh, I think anyone capable of reading the political runes can work out that Labour is likely facing a hard time of it at the next Westminster elections. What is less certain is where the Scottish protest vote will go this time. It is certainly not a given that the Gnats will benefit again, and the Party which emerges strongest will have a significant bearing on what happens in Scotland in 2011.

Remember that we may not be facing that Westminster election until as late as 2010. Still an awful lot to play for and still plenty of time for the shine to come off the Gnat honeymoon. There are no more Bridge tolls to abolish, and the bills will have started to come in by then. Who knows, the Scottish Future Trust may even be up and running, though that seems less likely.

#40 - Not just me who thinks it was a trick - the independent review thought it was a trick. It is generally accepted that the two ballot format confuses voters, and that many think they have an alternative vote. All Parties agreed to the format, by the way. The Gnats just keep quiet about that, because they were the main beneficiaries.

The other point is that no-one is really running Scotland at the moment. It is just coasting along. We will see whether the Smug One is any good - rather than just a loudmouthed, bullying self-publicist whose party trick is picking fights with Westminster - the first time some serious financial decisions have to be taken for Scotland. Plenty of chickens waiting to come home to roost.
42

morris,

edinburgh 11/06/2008 15:29:04
39 Have a rerun !
BRING IT ON as WENDY would say !Surely the Unionist parties are not so stupid that they have not realised that they are bigger than the SNP and can vote them down at Holyrood.
The truth is the three Unionist parties dare not allow another vote .They would be massacred according to the polls. They will be anyway after Westminster is declared. Why do you think they have not done so already ?

Then this will be resolved to everybodys satisfaction as in the people have spoken .

I cant see any problem there ?We get what we vote for.
43

Duncan in Edinburgh,

11/06/2008 15:29:07
#40 Come off it. If it wasn't a trick why have the SNP already announced that they won't be repeating it?

It was criticised in the Gould report, but you'll probably not be aware of that because the SNP approach to the Gould report was to pick one part of it, misrepresent it in the media, and then try to silence its author when he clarified that his criticisms went across all parties, not just Labour.
44

Ghengis McCann,

Edinburgh 11/06/2008 15:29:43
Oh, and lest we all lose sight of the real point of this thread - the headline to the story above should read:

"Gnats award their list MSPs a rise in allowances ahead of vote"

Because that's what is really happening here, however hard the Bravehearts try to spin it otherwise. Self-serving Gnats with their noses in the trough.
45

Yeah1,

11/06/2008 15:32:50
#38

"No I meant a majority , since clearly a majority can be from any permutation,which is clear enough to most people ,but I agree that it could be interpreted as a majority in each and all of the parties.It would still be a majority.
I will appologise for not being absolutley clear about that,but I really could not care less what you believe to be honest."

Its not a question of what I 'believe' its a question of what you yourself said.

In terms of parliamentary votes 'All-party majority' means the vote is passed by a majority comprising at least one or more votes from every party in the parliament.

If you 'meant a majority' as you say, why didn't you just say 'majority' instead of 'all-party majority'?

Is it because you were trying to implicate all the Holyrood parties in this vote, not just the SNP, before you read the rest of the article and realised labour were going to be voting against it?
46

Ghengis McCann,

Edinburgh 11/06/2008 15:34:41
#43, Duncan - you and me both for the Gnat Gulag if, heaven help us all, King Smug ever does come to power in a separate Scotland. This sort of critique from Unionist traitors will not be tolerated. All dissent will be suppressed by the Braveheart Big Brothers.

I'm starting now on my drafts of "A Day in the Life of Ghengis McCannovich" and "The Benbecula Archipelago" just in case :-)
47

Ghengis McCann,

Edinburgh 11/06/2008 15:37:17
#45 - The guy just regurgitates the Gnat orthodoxy, which has only a passing acquaintance with the facts.

King Smug good, Labour bad. Repeat ad nauseam. That's about the depth of their political analysis.
48

ddmc,

11/06/2008 15:37:40
why do we need so many MSP's for a country of 5 million ?
49

Yeah1,

11/06/2008 15:46:40
#42

"The truth is the three Unionist parties dare not allow another vote.They would be massacred according to the polls."

I'm not sure what polls you have been looking at. The most recent polls on the Scottish electorate that I have seen (April 2008) are as follows:

SNP 40% Constituency vote, 33% regional vote
Labour 32% Constituency, 30% regional
Tories 12% Constituency, 13% regional
Lib Dems 13% Constituency, 12% regional
The rest 3% Constituency, 12% regional

Hardly a 'massacre' for unionist parties is it? Considering in total they would have 57% of the constituency vote and 55% of the regional.
50

morris,

edinburgh 11/06/2008 15:47:52
43

I can only speak for myself but if the ballot paper had read Wendy for First Minister it would not have swayed me.What more can I say?
Did it sway you into voting SNP?
I dont think so!
If it affected anybody at all ,then its better that I dont attempt an expalanation which is clearly peculiar to those individuals only!
Im sure you can work that out for yourself.
I think its withdrawal is plain and simply because its not worth the controversy, and presumably it would never work twice if it ever did.
I could be wrong of course .Maybe Wendy could try it!

Wendy for First Minister . Nope it just doesn't do anything for me Sorry.
51

Ghengis McCann,

Edinburgh 11/06/2008 15:51:01
#48 - I agree. Get rid of the list losers elected under the Assisted Places scheme and let's return to FPTP, where the Electors' first choice is the one which counts and the runners-up don't sneak in by the back door.
52

Yeah1,

11/06/2008 15:57:47
#50

The ballot paper would not have read 'Wendy for First Minister' even if labour had used those tactics - Jack McConnell was the labour leader at the time.

For someone who attempts to comment on political issues your simple lack of knowledge about politics and political parties in general is astonishing.
53

morris,

edinburgh 11/06/2008 15:59:07
49

Go for it!

I challenge the three Unionist parties put your gravy train expenses where your mouth is !

The Westminster result would indeed become even more interesting,and we could never describe the 400 seat majority which was the projection of a recent poll as a massacre could we? Labour would retain at least
erm ......................................
the maximum
number of seats possible less 400 majority less others would leave .............................OH DEAR.

A massacre at Westminster looms.The Holyrood vote would be even less if held after Westminster and would be bad enough before !Im a democrat.

I say BRING IT ON BRING IT ON BRING IT ON !

Let the people decide.
54

ThomasP,

11/06/2008 16:06:21
49 Yeah1.

Another 4 years of the Nats in Government would be a massacre for the Unionist Parties.

How can they promote the 'goodness' in the Union with Scottish Nationalists in power?

;-)
55

Ghengis McCann,

Edinburgh 11/06/2008 16:06:29
#50 - It is being withdrawn because the Gould report condemned it as a shabby trick which should never have been allowed in the first place.

And by the way, yes it is entirely probable that having the Labour leader on the second paper would have attracted a fair number of Labour voters' second votes, because there were actually a fair number of Labour voters in May 2007. Of course Jack McConnell rather than Wendy was the Party's leader then anyway. He would have had to change his name by deed poll to "Aaron Aardvark" or something to make sure that he appeared high enough up the ballot paper for the trick to work - as your man did by using "Alex" rather than "Salmond" to get him up near the top of the paper. But it was not a shabby trick. Oh, no.

Incidentally, you really need to disabuse yourself of the notion that the Gnats substantially outpolled Labour in May 2007. The margin was very small. You're starting to believe your own bombastic publicity, and that is always the start of a political decline.
56

ThomasP,

11/06/2008 16:07:37
Ghengis McCann.

I agree. Let us return to FPTP. The SNP according to Polls would win a clear mayjority and then they can vote for Scotland to become Independent without a referendum.

Similar to the Kosovo situation.
57

morris,

edinburgh 11/06/2008 16:08:21
52
Wendy is the leader now and I said she could try it.Im not suggesting that Wendy was in fact leader when Jack McConnel was still around which is clearly absurd and desperation on your part.Again you demonstrate the weakness and desperation of your situation and that suits me just fine.
58

Ghengis McCann,

Edinburgh 11/06/2008 16:14:37
#53 - Lest we forget, the real expenses gravy train in this story is the fact that the headline to the story above should read "Gnats award their list MSPs a rise in allowances ahead of vote". This is all about self-serving Gnat list MSPs with their noses in the expenses trough.

#56 - Oh, I certainly agree that Scotland will become a lot like Kosovo if King Smug and the Gnats ever get power in a separate Scotland. But media polls don't win Elections, voters do. We will see in 2011 whether the separatist argument has been won, because the voters will understand that what is at stake is a bit more than a cheap protest vote against Labour. Smug Salmond clearly doesn't think the separatist argument is yet won, judging by the way he is running scared from a referendum.
59

ThomasP,

11/06/2008 16:19:29
Ghengis McCann.

Running?

Only an idiot would ignore the SNP's manifesto promise to hodl the referedum in 2010 just to paint a bad picture of the SNP.

Are you that idiotic that you are going to ignore the SNP's manifesto promise?
60

Ghengis McCann,

Edinburgh 11/06/2008 16:19:59
#57 - I don't sense any desperation among the Labour supporters on this thread. I think we all recognise that Labour is currently at a low ebb and that there are issues to be addressed. Labour has been around a long time and is comfortable with Government, especially here is Scotland. We fall down, we get back up again. It is all cyclical.

What I do sense is a bit of political triumphalism and immaturity among the Bravehearts. You have not faced any real challenges in power yet and have not had any hard decisions to make. It won't stay that way for four years. We'll see then how well the core support for the Gnats holds up.

So beware the early gloat. The current game is not anywhere near over yet.
61

Jam Tarts 1874,

On The Rebound 11/06/2008 16:25:22
SNP = Tartan Tories = snouts in the trough
62

Ghengis McCann,

Edinburgh 11/06/2008 16:25:50
#59 - The Gnats don't seem to have much problem reneging on other Manifesto commitments. You are not seriously telling me that if Salmond believed he could win a referendum on separatism now, he wouldn't hold the vote tomorrow? Because if you are, I know which one of us around here is the idiot.

The big concern for the Gnats is that you won't be able to win in in 2010, which is actually not that far away, especially if the other Parties (who are of course the clear majority in the SP) are able to ensure that a straight single issue question is put before the voters, rather than the various weasel words which the Gnats would prefer.

But do keep on believing your own publicity. Your smug complacency is most welcome.
63

Bigwull,

edinburgh 11/06/2008 16:27:19
WHO DO POLITICIANS THINK THEY ARE? 2ND ONLY TO ROYALTY IN THE SPONGING STAKES THESE DAYS, WHY DONT THEY TRY TO LIVE OFF THEIR OWN WAGE AND PAY FOR THEIR OWN FUEL AND FOOD AND OTHER EXPENSES LIKE EVERYONE ELSE AND MAYBE THEY'D UNDERSTAND THE REAL WORLD A BIT BETTER, AND WHY ARE SECRETARIES/OFFICE STAFF ETC NOT PROVIDED DIRECTLY BY THE CIVIL SERVICE AND AT LEAST WE'D KNOW WHO IS PAID AND FOR DOING WHAT,MIND YOU JUST WAIT TILL THE TORIES GET IN THOUGH AND YOU'LL SEE SOME REAL NOSES TO THE TROUGH.
64

Jam Tarts 1874,

On the Rebound 11/06/2008 16:33:18
Assuming that only SNP voters voted for independence one can easily see why the media-clown Salmond is running scared of a referendum.

SNP's share of the vote at the last Scottish Parliament election = 32.9%. Turnout = 51.9%.

Therefore only about 17% of those eligible to vote voted for independence.

Salmond has ridden the anti-English wave as far as he can, so far his Government has been a shambles and he has ran out of ideas.

One simple question for the nats, how on earth would the Scottish economy manage to keep Strathclyde in the benefits that they have become accustomed to?
65

morris,

edinburgh 11/06/2008 16:50:04
60

Here I can agree with what you are saying.The honeymoon period has lasted longer than any of us SNP supporters could have ever dared to imagine.I freely admit that,and of course we could face problems ahead.I think they are small fry compared to what will happen after Westminster results are declared. Cameron could be pegged back again,in theory, but not enough to save Labours bacon ,and its what happens after he (Cameron)is elected that shapes Scotland's future.

Whether the SNP retains its current lead or it reduces again fades into insignificance if Labour are ,as I expect, already out of no 10 in effect, no matter what Brown does,and maybe you will waken up after the Westminster election and think OH MY GOD.WHAT DO WE DO NOW?.

Shouting Vote Labour will hardly be appropriate will it?

There is everything to play for I agree.The difference is I have to convince Scotland that you will not win and you have to convince Scotland Wales and England that you will! I think I have an easier ride No?
66

morris,

edinburgh 11/06/2008 17:01:11
64

Read the McCrone Report!Its forty years old now,still applies as much as ever and you still dont get it.

Even Labour acknowledge Scotland is a sound economy and Wendys own husband acknowledged the strength of the Scottish economy and they have both deied and confirmed this depending upon where and when!

How can you agree with a party which claimed that they explained to the Scots that we are a rich nation, if we go for indpendence,(Brian Wilson Mp in front of thousands of viewers) and claim that we rejected this,and they also say the direct opposite, and it is not so.(You are doing it now)

Parties which cannot even agree with what they themselves have said should not expect to avoid being called liars!

67

Ghengis McCann,

Edinburgh 11/06/2008 17:13:29
#65 et al - smug, bombastic, triumphalist Gnats. Are there any other kinds? The key issue here (and you are avoiding it in preference for your standard Gnat litany of anti-Labour abuse) is that next time round - either a referendum in 2010 if Smug Salmond has the bottle, or the SP elections in 2011 - the choice before Scottish voters will not be between Labour and a protest vote against Labour, it will be between staying in the UK and making an irreversibe choice for separatism. Gnats can have no confidence on the basis of current polls or recent elections that you would win that argument easily. You just might, but you probably will not. And where do the Gnats go then, having shot the only bolt you really have?

And to get back to the real business, rather than talking up your electoral chnaces on not much evidence, are any of you going to address the point of this story - which is that the Gnats have pre-empted and totally ignored an independent report in order to line the pockets of their list MSPs with even more taxpayers' money?

#66 - Oh, aye, It's Scotland's Oil. Isn't that old gramophone record broken yet? When you lot get it together enough to give Edinburgh the new schools to which Labour had already committed, and which are promised in the Gnat Manifesto, we'll start to take your claims to be able to manage the economy a bit more seriously.

Going to tell us about the Scottish Futures Trust then? All the financial experts seem to agree that it is just PFI with knobs on, assuming of course that you ever get it off the ground. Meanwhile all capital projects grind to a halt.

Sooner or later you will have to give Scottish voters some action rather than empty talk and a few lollipops like abolishing the Bridge tolls.
68

Edward,

11/06/2008 17:13:58
'the cross-party Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body ' made up of Tricia Marwick (SNP), Mike Pringle (LibDem), Alex Ferguson(Presiding Officer), Alex Johnstone (Conservative)and Tom McCabe(Labour)
'A senior Labour MSP said: "This is a back-door increase. Everyone has been talking about the figures set out in the report and then suddenly we find they have been uprated.'
So the report given by Labour supporter Prof Langlands, which includes the advise of an annual increase is now being questioned by Labour, even allthough they set up the report , have an MSP on the all party committee!
Does Labour actually have any idea what there about, or are they out to be uncoperative on everything including there own ideas!
It beggers belief
69

Edward,

11/06/2008 17:19:31
#61
Now that is funny, very amusing
Spoken like a true Labour tw*t!
You do realise that the report on allowances was set up by Labour and was chaired by labour supporter and donor Prof Langlands (he of any job that Labour can give him).
Labour are more Tory than the Tories, dont forget that Gordon Brown is a great admirer of Maggie Thatcher and it was Gordon Brown that had Maggie for tea
Something that Labour would like us all to forget
If any politicians have got threre collective snouts in the trough, its Labour!
70

McMadman,

Saor Alba 11/06/2008 17:36:49
# 36 Ghengis McCann,
Edinburgh 11/06/2008 14:51:47

The Gnats have the narrowest of majorities because they maximised the list vote with their "Salmond for FM" trick. Not just my view but that of the independent review of the Scottish Election problems, who recommended that such tricks should be outlawed next time round.

Sure, the Gnats are the largest minority Party and are in Government, mostly with the help of their new pals the Scottish Tories. But it is entirely revisionist to imply that they won a landslide victory in May 2007. They didn't. Despite Labour's abysmal leader and lacklustre performance, Labour still dropped a mere 4 seats overall. The Gnats picked up only a handful of new FPTP seats. Their slender one seat lead over Labour came from list votes - mostly SSP seats up for grabs following their disintegration.

These are the hard facts. You Braveheart fantasists might not like them, but these are the facts"

Ghengis. Those were the rules of the contest. Get yir maw tae pick the toys up yi've chucked oot yir pram. You lost. Get over it.

By the way, wasn't it Labour that set up these rules ?
71

McMadman,

Saor Alba 11/06/2008 17:45:49
# 64 Jam Tarts 1874,

"SNP's share of the vote at the last Scottish Parliament election = 32.9%. Turnout = 51.9%.

Therefore only about 17% of those eligible to vote voted for independence."

Yep. But Liebour scored essentially the same percentage. In total, in the election 2/3rds of voters that voted actually supported the unionists.

As a proportion of all those eligible to vote (rather than those that bothered) therefore, yes the SNP got 17%. The unionists got 33% though; not exactly earth shattering. Also not a majority last time I looked.

50% don't care. Now a lot of unionists like you spin this to show noone supports independence. Independence supporters generally have not, but could, very easily stand your argument on it's head. EG;

67% of people eligible to vote were

(a) unconvinced enough by unionism to give it their explicit support, or

(b) clearly not concerned at a potential SNP victory.

And only a third voted unionist. No one should be claiming that the 50% non voters supported one side or the other or that the silence of this group should be seen as indicative of support for them and disagreement with their opponents; the nats don't do this but unionists like you constantly do.
72

thinking,

Scotland 11/06/2008 17:49:00
Can anyone tell me how many MPs covered Scotland before devolution?
How many MPs & MSPs do we have now?
Why do we need so many?
73

McMadman,

Saor Alba 11/06/2008 17:50:50
#72

72 Westminster pre devolution, 59 post devolution with additional 129 MSP's.

We don't need so many. Bin the westmonster 59. Let's take our own decisions in our own country.
74

Suomi,

Salo,Finland 11/06/2008 18:06:40
In response to #34 Grahamski,all candidates are rejected by most of their electorate unless they gain 50%+ of votes cast.Since many first past the post conrests are won on the basis of 30-40% of the vote,they have been rejected by 60-70% of voters in a constituency.The PR system is designed to balance this problem and ensure that more views are represented in parliament and also to give people choice about which MSP to consult with.

Regarding the pat rise,this is always controversial with politicians.However two issues are being mixed up in these comments,the pay rise and equal allowances for MSP's.It has been reported that Labour are split on the issue of allowances,and that George Foulkes is arguing that all MAP's be treated equally. For the first time ever,I agree with him.

75

Suomi,

Salo,Finland 11/06/2008 19:11:21
In response to #77 AM2,I don't know what other parties do in relation to the regional list.However,my experience of the SNP list is that the voters are given information about the persons who will be elected should they give their second vote to the SNP.If the voters do not understand how the system works then this is not the fault of the SNP,but I do agree that it is a matter for concern and reflection.

The problem that I have with some postings on this site is that the rationale for PR is being ignored,and there is a danger that MSP's elected to represent minority views will be marginalised.Seems somewhat against the spirit of PR? Actually,in spite of the fact that my party (SNP) are gradually increasing the numbers of MSP's elected by first past the post,I still support the concept of PR.

I also notice the attempts to denigrate the Scottish Parliament.This is probably offensive to many people (across the political divide) who struggled to establish it.In my opinion,the only problem is its lack of powers.I am sure that this will be taken care of in future years.In spite of what some people are saying,the current Scottish government is popular and there is an increasing confidence in the Scottish Parliament.Perhaps this is what is motivating some postings.I get the impression that some people have still not recovered from the election results.As a very old political activist,I can assure them that bad election results are surviveable.There is some excellant football on TV just now.Grab a beer and enjoy.It will get better.
76

Grahamski,

Falkirk 11/06/2008 20:29:14
78
I understand the rationale of PR - it gives minority views a say. The problem start when minority views dominate. We now have an administration of a party who have had the vast majority of their representatives rejected when the electorate were given the choice to select their representatives. It is an administration of second-choices and faceless party beaurocrats, an administration propped up by MSPs selected in secret by the parties and shamelessly touted as Alex Salmond for FM.
It mocks our democracy and shames us.
I repeat, we have members of Mr Salmond's cabinet who have been rejected at the ballot box but due to their already discredited electoral sharp practice have managed to sneak through the back door. Utterly shameless.
77

Grahamski,

Falkirk 11/06/2008 20:56:35
74
Do you deny that Lina Fabiani failed in her attempt to be elected in EK? The truth of the matter is that she put herself forward and more people in the constituency voted for Mr Kerr, her opponent, than her. By any standards that makes her unsuccessful; she put herself up for election and she failed.
What the dickens is she doing now sitting in the cabinet flicking v-signs at the electorate of EK?
She stood as Alex Salmond in the second-choice ballot and sneaked in disguised as Mr Salmond.
Democracy, well, not as we know it, pathetic...
78

Grahamski,

Falkirk 11/06/2008 21:39:14
81
AM2
I have no doubt that the SNP's 'ruse' was within the rules. I do not question the validity of the result, I question the ethics of the methodology used by the SNP to achieve that result.
I can think of nothing more compromising for an administration's integrity than the way it was elected.
79

ScotNat2008,

Livingston 11/06/2008 22:36:51
Where is Guy Fawkes now that we really need him?
80

,

12/06/2008 02:22:31
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
81

,

12/06/2008 02:23:50
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
82

,

12/06/2008 02:27:03
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
83

,

12/06/2008 02:28:06
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:

 

Comment on this Story

 

In order to post comments you must Register or Sign In