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Union warns SNP of jobs threat over £150m rail stock contract



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Published Date: 14 April 2008
By Sam Reeves
THE UK's largest union yesterday called on the Scottish Government not to award a multi-million-pound train carriage contract to a foreign manufacturer.
Unite warned that the Nationalist administration was "intent" on handing the £150 million deal to build 120 carriages to engineering giant Siemens.

The company builds trains in the Czech Republic and fits them out in Germany, the union said.

In
stead, the contract should be awarded to rival company Bombardier to safeguard jobs in England and Scotland, the union argued.

If Siemens were to win, it would be "a travesty for UK manufacturing" and lead to job losses in Britain, a spokesman said.

Bombardier employs 1,800 people at a site in Derby and uses a mainly British supply base, including Scottish suppliers.

The First ScotRail order is for 120 cars to run on the Glasgow/Ayr and the Glasgow Airport route.

Unite called for an urgent meeting with Scottish ministers to make the case for the Bombardier bid.

But a Scottish Government spokesman said it would be "premature" to say who might be awarded the contract while the tendering process was under way.

John Quigley, Unite regional secretary, said: "This is a prime opportunity for the SNP to back UK plc.

"If they award this lucrative contract to Bombardier, thousands of Scottish and UK workers will benefit, but if they give it to Siemens, jobs may even be lost."

He went on: "We are demanding an urgent meeting with the Scottish Government to make the case for the bid that will see UK workers, north and south of the Border, benefit."

But the Scottish Government refused to give any indication of who may win the contract.

A spokesman said: "A tendering process is currently under way, led by First ScotRail, to provide new rolling stock that meets Scotland's aspirations for rail delivery, while offering best value for money.

"The new rolling stock will allow us to offer a better service. However, as the procurement process is ongoing, it would be premature to comment on who the manufacturer will be."



The full article contains 354 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

 
1

Boggle fey the Bog,

14/04/2008 00:36:32
Aye another non-story, interesting phraseology from a trades unionist;- "John Quigley, Unite regional secretary, said: "This is a prime opportunity for the SNP to back UK plc."

One would presume as a regional secretary of Unite Mr Quigley would at least have a rudimentary knowledge of EU directives concerning tendering for 'public contracts' and his comments at best are 'inappropriate' and at worst he is following Islington's Orders.

Again another article designed to increase the call for Independence.

Might I also suggest that if Mr Quigley is so concerned, then why did he not seek a meeting with the appropriate Scottish government minister, to express his concerns and that of his members, before whinging to the press?

It gives all the appearance of another unwarranted attack on Scotland's right to govern it's own devolved affairs, by 'scaremongering' over alleged 'job losses'.

Pretty poor reporting really.
2

Paul in Oz,

Helensburgh 14/04/2008 01:05:39
Ahhhh someone else that can smell the coffee!

Isn't it pathetic that this rag is stoking anti-britishness by utilising the fears of someone as a tool in promoting scottish independance.

You just have to read the context of this and other stories on these pages to see the agenda the Scotman is promoting.

One of the stories here is 'MUGABE MOCKS BROWN'so instead of actually reporting the horrors of Mugabe and the injustices against Zimbabwe's people this disgusting excuse of a paper turns it into another personal attack on a SCOTTISH prime minister in order to discredit him further and promote the nationalist cause. It is a a form of parochialism that beggers belief.

I thought Americans coupld be parochial and insular but the reporting in this paper sinks to new lows every day which just astound me.

I actually find my self coming back here to read it and find a new low and horror in jounalistic integrity. It is almost like slowing down to see a car crash you know it is going to be awful but you just can't help having a look!
3

Edward,

14/04/2008 02:50:11
Just another anti SNP story, The union Unite are backers to a few Labour MSP's and MP's as well as councilors, so not exactly impartial!
Strange that they want the Scottish Government to intervene with a commerciual decision by a private company. What about other rail companies in the UK that buy from Siemens? Are they insisting that the UK Government intervenes in decisions by Southwest trains, eh I dont think so!, or Thameslink, mmm nope
what about London Midland Railway, when they chose Siemens , did the UK Government intervene..NOPE
So please Scotsman stop writing drivel concocted by the Labour party and there sponsers Unite
4

JulesF,

14/04/2008 03:11:59
A spokesman said: "A tendering process is currently under way, led by First ScotRail, to provide new rolling stock that meets Scotland's aspirations for rail delivery, while offering best value for money.

Aye there's the rub.

'Best value for money'

And if that isn't British labour then so what ?

Another non story from the red rag!
5

Paul in Oz,

Helensburgh 14/04/2008 03:39:15
Yeah the funny thing is I am from being a unionist as growing up, now independence does not phase me and does not really bring out any form of feeling at all.

I am happy with the status quo and in the same breath not adverse to the independence route either I just hate reading these stories on these boards that have a clear agenda built in to them almost in order to perpetuate more news really the worse people are made to believe brown is acting the more stories this paper can fill the more they believe the more they can force change the more news there is for them to report on!
6

KampungHighlander,

Jakarta 14/04/2008 03:53:41
I would be more concerned that the trains are actually able to do their job of carrying passengers in safety and comfort.

Given the fact that most trains operating in Scotland can not operate if their are a few leaves on the track, I think functionaltity is of greater concern to ther traveling public.

If Bombardier is able to produce the best train at the lowest cost then they should win the contract. If however it is Siemens that wins the competition then they have nobody but themselves to blame.

John Quigley would be of better service to "UK plc" if he spent his time making sure that the demands of his members where not making companies uncompetitive.
7

Samcafe,

Glasgow 14/04/2008 07:04:32
John Quigley is a good, honest,intelligent man who is doing his job, representing his members interests. Some of the comments on this story are teeth grinding paranoid nonsense. And to KampungHighlander, would minimum wage and a once weekly flogging be sufficient reward for highly skilled engineers? To keep them competitive and all that!
8

Jimmy the Pie,

14/04/2008 07:26:56
If you're fed up paying your union dues, only to find out some of your subs pay for New Labour Sleaze and Corruption then opt out!!

Use this form

Political Fund Exemption Notice
I hereby give notice that I object to contributing to the Political Fund of the union and am in consequence exempt, in the manner provided by Chapter 6 of the Trade Union and Labour Relations (consolidation) Act 1992, from contributing to that fund.
Name: _______________________________________
Membership number: _______________________________________
Payroll No: _______________________________________
Address: _______________________________________
Union and branch: _______________________________________
Signature: _______________________________________
Date: _______________________________________
9

Dave from Barra ©,

Western Isles 14/04/2008 07:32:00
Hmm, let me see. Wasn't it Labour that signed our domestic tendering process away to the EU? Meaning that the government cannot be seen to support any one particular country/business, by law!

This article is a little one sided.
10

BK,

Cyberspace 14/04/2008 08:02:25
Our own once thriving rail and steel industries were devastated by a foreign enemy for political reasons, so why should we sympathise with Bombardier rather than Siemens?
11

Auld Twa,

Edinburgh 14/04/2008 08:06:01
The contract must be offered on a Europe wide tender, no ifs or buts.
If Scotland has no manufacturing industry left it can hardly be blamed on the SNP.
12

,

14/04/2008 08:35:23
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
13

Chris.J,

Edinburgh 14/04/2008 08:41:43
As others have pointed out... EU tendering rules apply! Furthermore any intervention, as demanded by the union, would simply bring the process into disrepute and quite possibly backfire in the faces of all concerned. So - are the unions and the Scotsman the ignorant fools for suggesting this? No - they're simply playing to an audience that might not know the legal landscape, in the hope that they can smear the SNP government for doing nothing more than following the law....
14

The Strategist,

14/04/2008 08:49:56
Bombardier isn't a UK company either. Building trains is just something else the City has ensured we will never do again.
15

Watson,

Irvine 14/04/2008 08:51:09
Just another hamster story from a rag that thinks it's a newspaper.
16

mr angry,

ayrshire 14/04/2008 08:52:50
#8 If they cannot match Siemens on price then there is something far wrong and they do not deserve the business. If they have at least as good a product at a competitive price then you can say that it would be preferable to give them the business. Otherwise these clowns should butt out.
17

danielrober,

14/04/2008 08:59:40
The SNP just seem to have no understanding of the need to WORK. Tax payers money is been used to subsidise the rail companies. However if 'pure commercial' rules are to be applied to the equipment suppliers, then rail operators should also have the same rules applied as well. As such lets turn off the grants.

We can save a fortune mothballing the railways and putting the money in to roads, shipping and air travel until such a time as the railway industry is better 'capable' of delivering benefits our economy.

I would warn the rail companies not to follow this lead by the SNP. I for one would see no point in providing maintenance grants to these 'railway sector' companies if no UK/Scotish jobs are provided.
18

interstellarmince,

outer-space 14/04/2008 09:01:35
The Unions are but another wing of the Establishment controlled from New-Troy. Casting my mind back - - back to when… Joke McNumpty was in charge… memory is going… who won thon order for coastguard ships again? I seem to remember ‘price’ being the clincher.

Want the truth?
http://www.fknnewz.com
and get it on you-tube.
19

Auld Twa,

Edinburgh 14/04/2008 09:08:58
The MOD refused to consider making these "grey" boats so that a tender could be place without going outside the country.
20

Socrates2,

14/04/2008 09:17:12
easy one for the SNP

this is no time for narrow nationalism

what provides best deal for travelling and tax paying public?
21

danielrober,

14/04/2008 09:24:05
# 21

Answer

Actually buses.



As for money continued rail investment, the price to upgrade the West Coast Mainline has been estimated by some American's to have the cost the same as their 'return to the moon plan'. Yep for the price of 8.5 - 12.5 mph increase in speed, only in designated places, we could of had a manned space program.

Anyone involved in the industrial sector before the Labout government are just looking at the rate of return on investments as a joke. However it's not a funny joke, just because the SNP decide to use the same old lines.
22

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

Edinburgh 14/04/2008 10:22:08
Oh aye right lets turn it into another PFI project rip off instead.
23

Andrah,

Embrugh 14/04/2008 11:21:03
15# You can hardly blame the City for the demise of the Scottish vehicle industry. Remember Linwood (Rootes/Chrysler) and Bathgate (Leyland)? A combination of dinosuar Unions and weak, inept management succeeded in leading it towards and over a cliff. Meanwhile we all chose to buy our vehicles increasingly from mainland European sources. Sounds like deja vu?
24

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 14/04/2008 11:24:42
John Quigley = Labour Mouthpiece
25

W U Merchant,

Aberdeen 14/04/2008 11:25:02
It is obvious that Salmond has been reading von Hayek again - and speaking to his good pal Madsen Pirie.
26

McX,

14/04/2008 11:34:00
Err Bombardier are a French Canadian company who manufacture in the Aviation and Transport industries

http://www.bombardier.com/

and also the ultimate English icon.

http://www.bombardier.co.uk/bombardier/promotions/english-icons


27

Shaken,

14/04/2008 11:36:24
The article claims that 1800 jobs would be lost in Derby yet makes unsubstantiated remarks about job loses in Scotland, how many and where are these supposed loses going to hit?

This is a French company by the look of their website so who the funk cares if it goes to Siemans or Bombadier? Same old Labour always lying..
28

McX,

14/04/2008 11:39:41
Oh and Siemens employs circa 400,0000 people worldwide and circa 10,000 plus in the UK...


http://www.siemens.co.uk/en/about_us/index/our_businesses.htm#toc-1
29

McX,

14/04/2008 11:42:07
Amongst Bombardiers assetts

"Acquisition of Berlin-based DWA in February, which includes six plants in Germany and operations in Czech Republic, Switzerland and Russia."

The Czech republic you say, why so do Siemens!
30

danielrober,

14/04/2008 12:09:51
The SNP are demonstrating the same lack of uderstanding for UK-Scots engineering as the Labour party. Just a complete separation of their purchaing actions from the decline of orders for UK-Scots companies.

Its getting really hard to remain polite here. Common guys these aren't stats, these are peoples lives. Educated hard working people that have put in decades of effort. You can't just treat them like this.
31

Calum10,

14/04/2008 12:28:35
Forget all this Unite nonsense about UK Plc and saving British jobs.

Siemens Transport Systems employ over a 1000 people in the UK and have a Glasgow office. So you can use the counter arguement that the best way to save Scottish jobs is to give the contract to Siemens.

Also Bombardier have a reputation in threatening jobs when chasing contracts. In Belgium recently Bomardier threatened they would close their Belgian plant if they did not get the government contract to build 1,200 railcars, despite the fact that rival companies had submitted lower bids. This is in marked contrast when Bomardier beat Siemens in a successful bid to regional trains for Germany's national railway.

It would seem that Unite are just doing Bombardier's dirty work by trying to bully the Scottish government. That says more about the union leadership than it does about the tendering process the Scottish government have to comply with.
32

Jock 1O7,

14/04/2008 12:38:38
Hehehe

You said siemens..! Hehehe, fnurr!
33

McX,

14/04/2008 12:40:02
#33 Well said Calum.

#32 Daniel, eh? Is English not your first language?

Etes-vous français?
34

Brian M,

Edinburgh 14/04/2008 12:45:49
have the unions said how many jobs WILL be lost?

or are they just scaremongering on behalf of the labour party?
35

danielrober,

14/04/2008 12:56:52
Oh thee all that have sign a pack weth the deiivel. Be sure to check the length of employment time.

Siemens Transport Systems are currently suffering from a lack of activity in backing up the USA is recent problems. Oh dear.

As a consequence of this lack of 'errr effort' GEC has reinvested in their Locomotion manufacturing divison. This has resulted in the USA retaking the lead in the supply of traction engines. It is only a matter of time before they return to the business that Pullmen invested. I'd say 9 years max before this divison is so reorganised that you contracts are worth squat.

Don't sign deals with the deavill.

So yee that be signnnned with the deeeiivel. Be careful. Don't remortgae.
36

McX,

14/04/2008 13:07:45
#37 So I was right then English isn't your first language. Is it your second?
37

danielrober,

14/04/2008 13:15:04
#38 so is your merc owned by you or the company?
38

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 14/04/2008 13:34:54
#38 A suggestion. Ignore #39.
39

danielrober,

14/04/2008 13:37:06
# 38, 40 Oh come on professionals. This is your job earn your money. After all your quick enougth to fire a few thousand engineers.
40

Mikey,

14/04/2008 13:40:56
To those of you ranting on about British jobs, what part of 'EU widetendering' do you not understand?

Your own favourite Britnats signed up for it! Are Britnats so stupid or are they just lying cheats? I think we should be told!
41

danielrober,

14/04/2008 13:44:51
# 42

Oh come these unions aren't talking about separation, EU scape-goating or 'higher' politics, they just want to know why their taxes are been used to put them out of work.

This is not 1984 you know. You'll never get away with shutting down 250,000 jobs again because your in a bad mood.

As my children say been grumpy, is naughty.
42

Gruithainn,

Arbroath 14/04/2008 15:10:13
It's likely, whether these trains are made in the Czech Republic or Derby, that Eastern Europeans will be intimately involved in the supply of parts or manufacturing labour anyway, as there are a great many in employment in ever-widening employment spheres here, often doing jobs the locals can be arsed with.
43

Gruithainn,

Arbroath 14/04/2008 15:11:15
Sorry that should be 'can't' in post above.
44

danielrober,

14/04/2008 15:36:52
What i think the unions are saying is that it is no longer good enough for a government to say 'we are not as bad as the last government'.

People are just sick of large scale government programs, producing very few returns on investment and providing ever fewer jobs. To top it off, we then have to compete else where in the world to pay the bill. In fact we have to compete against the very same poeple our 'nice' government bought equipment from. Thanks.

# 44 Gruithainn,Arbroath

At least that's a reason. But I would be carfull with such a point of view. Legends of Czech engineering havebecome wide-spread these past fewyears. Yet actually they have very few examples equipment to show off. One gun for the Brits (1930'), one tank for the Germans (1940's), and one train set for the Russians (1970's). Not much to go on really. Those train were actually Russian ones built in Czechosolvakia. Though the five foot gauge might have been upgraded to a high speed line if the cold war went on. So why set up the Czechs for a fall, it's not nice.
45

Edward,

14/04/2008 17:09:43
#46 danielrober
What has Scotrail got to do with the Scottish Government????
Scotrail are a privately owned company , which is part of First Group
So why critise the Scottish Government, nothing to do with them
Also why should First Group favour the Canadian company Bombardier over the German owned company Siemens??
FirstGroup Scotrail are only trying to get the best deal for them, if theat means giving the order to Siemens then so be it. Labour are using Unite to critise the Scottish Government, but Labour make no qualms when other rail companies in England use Siemens over Bomardier, I wonder why that is?
46

danielrober,

14/04/2008 17:54:55
# 47 Edward

If you take a look at #18, i'm suggesting that the SNP are just repeating the same patterns of the Labour party. We need to pull in the government spending on the railway sector, as returns are becoming less defined and bills are entering the billions.

As for private sector companies, 10 years ago i would have agreed with you, but that was then. Update on the last decade. Each year more billions of pounds worth of promisses are made. This is our tax money.

As for the unions, well lets see if they have reformed and recognise a bit of self preservation. Better late than never.

German, Czech, Canadian who cares. Value for money and a reasonable degee of economic returns need to be gained from government money.

ITS TIME THE UK-SCOTS GOVERNMENT LOOKED AT HOW THEY SPEND OUR MONEY.
47

McX,

14/04/2008 21:13:20
#40 Good advice, thank you.
48

danielrober,

14/04/2008 21:53:34
# 49 McX

It's a shame the guys losing their jobs over party politics can't just ignore the situation. I'm surprised, by the lack of discussion over government spending. Hours are dedicated to discussing the raising of revenue, yet minutes are dedicated to dicussing how its spent.

Its tough debate but some people from all manner of back grounds are involved with this debate, i hope the Scotsman keep the information moving.

 

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