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Terrorism bill: Government scrapes home in detention vote



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GORDON Brown's Government tonight narrowly won the key Commons vote to extend pre-charge detention of terror suspects to 42 days.
After weeks of arm twisting and a series of concessions, the power for ministers to exercise the controversial "reserve" power was backed by 315 to 306, majority 9.

Cheers rang out as the result was announced to a packed chamber after a tense five-hour debate.

But there were also angry shouts from Tory opponents of the move, protesting about the role of DUP MPs, who were believed to have backed the Government.

Speaker Michael Martin had to intervene to restore order and quell the barracking.

Downing Street had earlier again forecast that the outcome of the vote was looking "very, very tight".

Facing one of the biggest tests of his leadership, the Prime Minister had been personally calling Labour MPs to make the case for the extension.

In a sign of how tight the situation was, Foreign Secretary David Miliband had to cut short a visit to Israel to attend the crucial divisions in Westminster.

The row over detention dominated the day at Westminster.

At question time, Tory leader David Cameron accused the Prime Minister of "ineffective authoritarianism" by proposing to detain terror suspects for 42 days without charge.

Urging MPs to follow their consciences, Mr Cameron branded the Government's plans "unworkable" and a "symbolic assault on liberty," which would "trash" the nation's hard-won civil liberties.

But Mr Brown insisted the change was needed to tackle increasingly sophisticated terrorism and accused the Tories of "opposition for opposition's sake".

He said he would rather act in "calmness" now than try to bring in "panic" measures at a time of emergency later.

Citing police backing, he insisted it was his duty to do not what was popular but what was right and necessary for the security of the UK.

Liberal Democrat leader Nick Clegg accused the Prime Minister of "playing politics with our civil liberties", and insisted the measures would be blocked by the Lords even if the Government wins backing from MPs.

When the key debate got under way in the crowded chamber, Home Secretary Jacqui Smith confirmed a fresh concession that suspects released without charge after being held under the scheme will be eligible for compensation.

Ms Smith said terrorist threat was "real and serious" and "more ruthless than any we have faced before" – raising the prospect of a radioactive 'dirty' bomb being used in a future plot.

"We are not proposing a permanent, automatic or immediate extension to pre-charge detention beyond 28 days," she said.

"Instead the Bill contains a reserve power that can only be used in exceptional circumstances, only with the support of the Director of Public Prosecutions, only with the backing of Parliament in a vote in both Houses, only with strong judicial safeguards and only for a temporary period before automatically lapsing."

The full article contains 489 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 11 June 2008 6:32 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Terrorism in the UK
 
1

Alternative (High Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 11/06/2008 13:44:49
Goodbye Gordon.
2

puskas,

East kilbride 11/06/2008 13:54:23
Who would trust any government that went to war on lies..

No crime can be greater.

Hopefully the Fifers have the guts and brainpower to get this imposter out and the county does the needful in all other areas. Particularly Scotland..

3

JoeMcT,

BlairsFantasyIsland 11/06/2008 14:05:02
"GORDON Brown warned MPs today that they would be failing in their duty to protect national security..."

Nope, Brown did that himself when he sat on his hands and said nothing and let Blair and the neoCons drag Britain into unnecessary wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

And the direct result of that was to make Britain a target for terrorists and nutjobs.
4

Arrow,

edinburgh 11/06/2008 14:09:02
does this law apply in Scotland or will there need to be a piece of separate legislation?
5

Arrow,

edinburgh 11/06/2008 14:09:03
does this law apply in Scotland or will there need to be a piece of separate legislation?
6

Scott Webb.......,

11/06/2008 15:06:11
If this goes through, watch what happens to the meaning of a terrorist act......remember the speech that got JFK killed :)

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=1710662559138481080&hl=en
7

Scott Webb.......,

11/06/2008 15:16:40
Heres another clip :)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OsRRxoqtPY0&eurl=http://video.google.co.uk/videosearch?q=gordon+brown&hl=en&sitesearch=

8

Scott Webb.......,

11/06/2008 15:24:15
Gordons own words :)


http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=4460885585960661260&hl=en
9

George Laird,

11/06/2008 15:25:39
Dear All

It is really pathetic that Gordon Brown, a loser who wants a win to shore up his failed leadership seeks to abuse civil liberties.

I would hope that sense prevails and Brown is defeated.

Watching the debate at present I struck by the lack of evidence present by the so called government.

Yours sincerely

George Laird
The Campaign for Human Rights at Glasgow University
10

Scott Webb.......,

11/06/2008 15:37:14
another clip from the net :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1RBJVSPqps&feature=related
11

Scott Webb.......,

11/06/2008 15:39:54
George Carlins take on things :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oI5EY5kqiBU&feature=related
12

Scott Webb.......,

11/06/2008 15:46:46
This one also contains one of many solutions to oil :)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Glqo-pFvw1Q&feature=related
13

Scott Webb.......,

11/06/2008 16:25:22
Eric Blair AKA George Orwell was not only warning people where things were going ...but what we have always been in :)
14

Scott Webb.......,

11/06/2008 16:27:10
clip on population reduction :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7awAo6CA5i4&feature=related
15

James.com,

11/06/2008 16:38:50
There is positive Joy on the faces of this Govt. at the thought of futher controlling the citizens. Just watch them!
16

ddmc,

11/06/2008 16:40:48
Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
17

Banana Heid,

Ayrshire 11/06/2008 16:46:00
Don't trust them with this power. they will definetly abuse it. It will cost the taxpayer millions in compensation. and give the government another reason to raise taxes...
18

Scott_B,

11/06/2008 16:52:22
If they vote it in, they have failed in their primary duty of representing the people of the country, and protecting their liberty and freedom won over several hundred years. Undone in the blink of an eye by a failing politician trying to look tough.

No comparable country in the world needs such a law - are our systems such a failure under this government that we are so far behind other countries in our capabilities.
19

Rev. S. Campbell,

Bath 11/06/2008 18:56:09
#16 Would you please just sod off and stop spamming EVERY thread with your tinfoil-hat conspiracy garbage? We've got enough REAL evil to deal with.
20

 Ayrshire Scot™,

11/06/2008 18:59:57
Disgusting to see Labour buy this draconian and non-sensical bill through by bribing the DUP with £200 million on water rates relief for the north of Ireland, while they withhold carers allowance money from Scotland.... disgusting further to see a Labour party playing politics with civil liberties in this manner for a unworkable bill.... shows how desperate Brown and Labour are....
21

 Ayrshire Scot™,

11/06/2008 19:00:57
20. Meths - careful, George may be a convicted felon (see Dev Commission Professor thread) - we await clarification from George, but apparently the GU has been bumping off his witnesses or summat
22

Why can't I use my usual name?,

Glasgow 11/06/2008 19:07:12
An affront to "freedom"
23

Scott Webb.......,

11/06/2008 19:12:41
Comment@22 Others appreciate it.....and thats no way for a Rev to speak :)
24

Nikostratos,

11/06/2008 19:29:19
#23

The YouGov survey found that almost three quarters of the public (69 per cent) support raising the detention limit from 28 days to 42 days "in exceptional circumstances". A quarter (24 per cent) oppose the plans.

Once again ayrshire is in a minority position........
25

Banana Heid,

Ayrshire 11/06/2008 19:29:28
How Depressing! I can't believe they voted this through. Does anyone know if it applies in Scotland? Please tell me Wee Alex has put a blocker on it happening up here...
26

SouthernSkye,

11/06/2008 19:38:12
And this on the same day that HMG loses secret terrorist related papers on a train.
http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/latestnews/Government-security-breach-Secret-terrorism.4176669.jp

Abso-bloody-lutley M A D !
27

Alex, Young Laird d' Drumchapel,

Madrid 11/06/2008 19:38:19
It seems the Gordon Brown-shirts have taken over the British parliament. Time to get out of Britain!
28

 Ayrshire Scot™,

11/06/2008 19:40:38
27. Lordy Niko, government by opinion poll? Who would have thunk it, from a Labourite?
29

 Ayrshire Scot™,

11/06/2008 19:42:06
27. Hey Niko. just while we are governing by poll, do you support the death penalty and what you make of Gordon Brown being the most unpopular PM ever, and Wendy being polled as the most unpopular politician of the UK (yep, she came 47th out 47.....)?

Or are there just some polls that Labourites like, and some polls they don't?

30

Alex, Young Laird d' Drumchapel,

Madrid 11/06/2008 19:42:59
I had a feeling they knew they had a majority a couple of days ago. As soon as the BBC Scotland talked about it being "a test of his authority as PM" I felt that it was in the bag. Not sure why but there you go.
31

 Ayrshire Scot™,

11/06/2008 19:43:31
27. Niko

how odd that current law already allows detention to 42 days in "exceptional circumstance" and this law makes in unexceptional.... how does your poll actually correlate to what's under discussion here?
32

Destroy the Planet,

11/06/2008 19:47:36
Who cares
33

 Ayrshire Scot™,

11/06/2008 20:04:44
36. Jeez, and Scottish Labour MPs being such a spirited, independent minded bunch....
34

steve 1511,

aberdeen 11/06/2008 20:10:12
herr broon and his labour lackeys reduced to bribing the dup to win a vote ,he is adopting the same system as leaders of banana republics and the likes of mugabe who attain and keep postions of power by bribery this is not democracy
35

Nikostratos,

11/06/2008 20:22:26
#32 ayrboy

If they had kept the death penalty some innocent Irishmen would of been hanged for a crime they did not commit..so no i don't

how many years does that poll go back and any way no doubt when Alex goes it will be bouquets to brickbats as it is to all politcal leaders.....

and its not my poll its a yougov one and it correlate's very nicely thank you very much
36

,

11/06/2008 20:25:45
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
37

Jimmy the Pie,

11/06/2008 20:26:24
Comrade Broon stoops to a new low.

So do the DUP

Sad day indeed.
38

 Ayrshire Scot™,

11/06/2008 20:43:15
40. Niko - you expose yourself as a thicko and Labour hack apologist par excellence.....

The polls on Gordon Brown being the most unpopular prime minister ever go back to the very first polls, ever... The poll on Wendy being the most unpopular politician in the UK goes back 2 days when it was reported

AS for innocent Irish people being executed were there a death penalty - do you not see how stupid and apologetic you make yourself seem? Is OK I suppose if innocent people are detained for 42 days, their details bandied about, their case disclosed to parliament on live TV, without a charge or case and without them knowing why, and they lose their jobs, are vilified.....
39

Matt there,

somewhere 11/06/2008 21:14:07
It will be like the serious crime/terrorism legislation which, we were told, would only be used to monitor terrorists or serious criminals.

And is now being used to spy on what rubbish people put in their bins and to spy on parents and their children to see if they lve in the school catchment area.

The 42 day detention will be used for all and sundry. And rarely, if ever, for terrorist suspects.
40

Scottish not British,

11/06/2008 21:28:07
The final nail in the coffin for any pretense of human rights, before long it will be extended in both time and who can be held before it is the standard.

Human rights R.I.P
41

Pilch,

Dunblane 11/06/2008 21:36:34
New Labour: repealing Magna Carta one line at a time.
Because 800 years of freedom is quite long enough.
42

mk-ultra,

Edinburgh 11/06/2008 21:47:42
We continue to have our rights stripped away in the name of fighting terrorism, while at the same time the CIA is arming and funding Al Qaeda.

"the CIA is giving arms-length support, supplying money and weapons, to an Iranian militant group, Jundullah, which has conducted raids into Iran from bases in Pakistan."
(Telegraph)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1552784/Bush-sanctions-%27black-ops%27-against-Iran.html
Bush sanctions 'black ops' against Iran - Telegraph


Jundullah is but one of several small terrorist cells that have emerged after the government's crackdown on 'jihadi' elements. According to police officials, some 20 cells, largely splinters of the banned militant outfits, are operating in Karachi, which has become the main center of terrorist activities in recent months. "Many of those involved in the recent terrorist attacks in the city received training in camps in Waziristan," says Tariq Jamil, chief of the Karachi police. "Jundullah has close ties with Al-Qaeda."
(Newsline)

http://www.newsline.com.pk/NewsAug2004/cover1Aug2004.htm
Al-Qaeda's New Face


"Jundullah was allegedly headed by Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, the al-Qaeda operational commander of the September 11 terrorist attack in the US. He was arrested in Pakistan early last year."
(Asia Times)

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/FG20Df05.html
Asia Times Online - The best news coverage from South Asia


"The CIA has denied any direct ties with the group, but U.S. officials tell ABC News U.S. intelligence officers frequently meet and advise Jundullah leaders, and current and former intelligence officers are working to prevent the men from being sent to Iran."
(ABC News)

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=4913927&page=1
ABC News: Pakistan May Turn Over U.S. 'Spies' to Iran

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Jundullah
Jundullah - SourceWatch
43

Rodster,

Glasgow 11/06/2008 21:57:21
An unworkable bill passed to make Brown look tough and in charge.
what a disgrace.
God knows what deals have ben done to make him look like a winner ,however you can be sure there will be losers everywhere .
Is there no level this man will not stoop to ,for his own personal gain???
a bad law ,by a bad government for all the wrong reasons
44

frank mcbride,

lusitania 11/06/2008 22:08:06
#49, Meths.

Oh, how so true!

#47, Meths.

I couldn't have put it any better, except to say, that the stewards of the bar will not live long enough, in their present employment, to suffer sufficiently.

They are a disgrace to their calling, as servants of the public and the public, that support them, will soon see the error of their ways.

1933/1984/2008, the story's the same.
45

Pilch,

Dunblane 11/06/2008 22:28:25
I thought I couldn't hold them in lower esteem, but they are beyond contempt now. This was unnecessary, unwarranted, arbitrary, and a negation of the fundamental notion that people should not be imprisoned without knowing why. This isn't an optional extra; it is basic.

But if the Lords don't save us, any UK citizen can be held for 6 weeks without being told why.

The social contract has been ripped up and used as toilet paper before our eyes.
46

Paula,

11/06/2008 22:36:26
Only 1 Scottish Labour MP with the courage of their convictions? That threat of losing their jobs at the next election must have worked.

They'll need to rely on the sheeple who vote Labour no matter what because despite their constantly repeating to themselves how many people supported this, the majority don't.

Who would like to open the book on bets for how long before there is an "absolute need" for 90 days? The Labour government has done more in the past 10 years to erode our personal liberties than Thatcher and her crowd managed in all her years. It makes living in this island just that touch more miserable, it has gotten so much worse in the past year.
47

Shamus,

Glasgow 11/06/2008 22:49:30
Well done the DUP. You have not forgotten the IRA terror inflicted on innocent people for the cause of fundamentalist headcases.
48

moral___superiority_,

11/06/2008 23:21:30
A big hand for the DUP.

They saved the day!

49

Conan the Librarian™,

12/06/2008 00:30:48
64
A big Red Hand?

 

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