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David Davis resigns: Shadow minister forces by-election over 'monstrous' terrorism bill



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TOP Tory frontbencher David Davis shocked Westminster today by announcing that he was resigning as an MP to "take a stand" against the Government's 42-day terror detention plan.
The shadow home secretary said he was forcing a by-election to protest against the "insidious" erosion of civil liberties in Britain.

Mr Davis spearheaded the Conservatives' failed bid to defeat the Government over extending detention without char
ge, which caused disquiet among some Tory MPs.

As the resignation drama unfolded in Westminster, a Lib Dem spokeswoman confirmed the party would not be fielding a candidate in the resulting Howden and Haltemprice by-election – giving Mr Davis a clear run against a Labour candidate.

Mr Davis said the undermining of civil liberties through moves such as 42 days and the introduction of ID cards "cannot go on".

"It must be stopped and for that reason today I feel it is incumbent on me to take a stand," he told reporters outside the Commons.

Aides to Mr Davis had indicated that last night's vote was "do or die", and he had staked a great deal of his credibility on the outcome.

Privately Mr Davis has accepted that many on the Tory benches were uncomfortable about opposing tough law and order measures.

However, he is seen as one of the Shadow Cabinet's best operators, and has claimed the scalps of a succession of Home Secretaries.

His popularity among the Conservative grass roots was demonstrated when he came runner-up to David Cameron for the party leadership in 2005.

Liberal Democrat leader Nick Clegg said: "David Davis's decision to resign his seat and fight a by-election over the issue of 42 days is a dramatic move. I am grateful to him for having informed me following the vote of his intention to take this step.

"The Liberal Democrats have consistently opposed this unnecessary and illiberal proposal which poses a threat so serious to British liberties that it transcends party politics.

"I have therefore decided, after consultation with the party nationally and locally, that we will not stand a candidate at the forthcoming by-election which will be contested by David Davis solely on this issue.
"The Liberal Democrats will of course fight the Haltemprice and Howden seat as vigorously as ever at the next General Election."

The Lib Dems had targeted the seat in 2005 as part of its ill-fated "decapitation" strategy to unseat key Tory figures but Mr Davis was re-elected with a 5,116 majority.

Mr Davis's local party fully backed his decision, its chairman Duncan Gilmour said.

"David discussed early in the week what he would do if the result went against us last night. David is a man of principle and we fully back him," he said.



The full article contains 471 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 12 June 2008 1:25 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Terrorism in the UK
 
1

JayDeeTee,

12/06/2008 13:22:16
At last.....a politician with morals. Well done Sir.
2

Micropacer,

12/06/2008 13:31:16
//At last.....a politician with morals. Well done Sir.//

Actually from whats being rumoured it has far more to do with the fact he apparently said the Tories would repeal the act when they came into power. Cameron hasnt said any such thing and thats not Tory policy. There maybe have been a blow-up between the two with Davis jumping over it.
3

A Friend of Fernando Poo,

12/06/2008 13:32:26
A politician with principles? Whatever next?
4

Boy Wonder,

12/06/2008 13:33:34
Even more astonishing ... a TORY with principles!!
5

Stewart C.,

Stranraer 12/06/2008 13:43:08
If we ALL make a stand against the erosion of our freedoms then we will win.

Why are we leaving it up to others, e.g. the Irish today!

Learn the facts, tell others, start groups, badger politicians, start a website - here's mine -

www.thelabourparty.org
6

Itchy,

12/06/2008 13:43:16
David Davis would have made a much better leader than David Cameron.

Brave man.
7

,

12/06/2008 13:43:20
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8

Jimmy the Pie,

12/06/2008 13:49:43
A man of principle.

Hope you enjoyed your 'victory' Comrade Broon!!!
9

danbob,

12/06/2008 13:53:08
When I first read the headline I thought we at last had a politician with principals. Turns out he plans to stand again, in a sure fire safe seat, and even the lib dems are refusing to stand. Gesture politics at its worst. Costing huge amounts of money holding by-elections and for what? One mans vanity.
10

Here Today HBOS Tomorrow,

12/06/2008 13:54:19
He should be careful, the 42 day detention limit and ID cards are two totally different issues - although both are under the banner of civil liberties. I fully support his stand on the 42 day limit. However ID cards are not so bad, except the way this Government plans to semi-privatise and implement them. I have lived in two countries with ID systems, and really it is no problem - to date I have never actually been asked by any law officer to produce ID. I have however been asked by train ticket inspectors, merely as way to validate my ticket. In all cases through the only time data is stored is when you are a witness to or a victim of a crime. Those are actually two useful situations for ID cards they are also useful for day to day life to prove age etc (e.g. preventing underage drinking). However as with anything in the UK they messed this up by relating it to terror - it will have no effect there. Furthermore they were going to let the banks run the database - totally unacceptable.
11

Cauchy Riemann,

Wales 12/06/2008 14:05:07
This is what David Hill, former Labour communication's chief said:

>>This has been a quite extraordinary day. We began with it [42 days] apparently being a problem for Gordon Brown... Before we know it we have Tory division and confusion... David Davis sounded slightly unhinged.<<

I think this quote says a lot about Labour's deceit and just how unworthy Labour are to be in power. He lies by talking about Tory division & confusion. [Everyone seems to understand why he is doing this and are wishing him well.] He then launches a petty immature attack calling him 'unhinged'.

David Davis has felt very strongly about this from day one - and intends to make an issue out of this. If having principles and standing up for what you believe in, even if it means personal loss, is 'unhinged', then we ought to have more 'unhinged' people in politics.

This kind of pettiness and inability to understand 'principles' from Labours ex communication chief is not surprising, but really shows why Nu-Labour are best forgotten and buried.
12

Steve_HMFC,

12/06/2008 14:06:36
What a stunt to waste peoples time and tax payers money
13

Duncan in Edinburgh,

12/06/2008 14:07:14
#10 Actually the issue is not the ID cards but the database state. I strongly recommend you read www.no2id.net for a full and enlightening explanation.

As far as DD resigning goes, while I agree with his stance, he is abusing process. He surely should not be allowed to resign and then stand again simply to make a point, no matter how important that point is.

Gesture politics indeed.
14

Duncan in Edinburgh,

12/06/2008 14:08:18
#11 How can this possibly mean "personal loss" for Davis? He is guaranteed to be returned with an increased majority. He is risking nothing at all.
15

Malc.F,

france 12/06/2008 14:11:12
David davies....a man with principles,don't make me laugh he at best is a thinly disguised white supremist who as someone once pointed out,more a quiz show host type than a prime minister. This is purely a publicity gaining sulk and I hope he is hoisted by his own petard at the resulting by-election. Though nothing the English voters ever do surprises me any more I don't think they will fall for this perhaps Donald Trump can be persuaded to stand against him.
16

Scott Webb.......,

12/06/2008 14:12:25
Top Ten Signs Your Country May Be Going Fascist :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSuWCIYi7T4&eurl=http://video.google.co.uk/videosearch?q=ten+signs&sitesearch=
17

A Clamper,

Edinburgh 12/06/2008 14:17:32
Just another example of how far to the right the Labour Party has gone. Even the Tories are alarmed.
18

 Ayrshire Scot™,

12/06/2008 14:18:24
14. Duncan "He is guaranteed to be returned with an increased majority."

how typically unionist of you. What a pity none of the electorate have any free will or choice.
19

,

12/06/2008 14:21:47
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20

,

12/06/2008 14:22:10
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21

Neal! Whit? Haud yer Whisht!!,

12/06/2008 14:22:14
If, as he says, he is going to fight it on the "42 day ticket" alone, then it stands to reason that IF he does get re-elected the people voting FOR him are also against the 42 Days.

If it's a land-slide for him the Gov Must sit up and take notice.
22

Neal! Whit? Haud yer Whisht!!,

12/06/2008 14:26:15
19

Traquir - Where did this rumour come from?
23

Cauchy Riemann,

Wales 12/06/2008 14:30:27
#11 wrote:
"How can this possibly mean "personal loss" for Davis? He is guaranteed to be returned with an increased majority. He is risking nothing at all."

He's going to lose some money (he has after all resigned) and he's lost his position on the shadow cabinet. A week is also a long time in politics - there is an element of risk there.

Also by doing such a thing he is in effect stating that when the Tories form the next government he won't be in it unless the law returns to 28 days. This is a real risk - the Tories might feel it is best not to revisit the issue which would leave David Davis out on a limb.

If the Tories return the law to 28 days then no problems - but this is far from clear, especially if circumstances change. So David Davies is basically risking his place in a future cabinet and consequent salary. Indeed he would probably feel the need to continue as an independent and might lose his seat as the Tories would have to challenge.

There is an element of pettiness around that suggests this is just a gimmick. But he has been extremely passionate about this from the start - and his actions give people an opportunity to vote on this via a by- election and to keep this as a focus in the media eye. It is logical.

Having seen all the lies & deceit and self serving lately from politicians I'm glad that someone is willing to make a stand on this.
24

Banana Heid,

Ayrshire 12/06/2008 14:31:50
I wish I had enough money to resign my job on principle. My employer is a dictator just like Gordon Brown.
25

,

12/06/2008 14:33:45
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26

John PM,

Edinburgh 12/06/2008 14:34:56
This is exactly the right issue to take a stand on. ID cards are another dreadful idea so on both counts he is right, though I personally think both proposals would have been waved through by the Thatcher Government.

Cameron got the better of Brown in the main debate. Brown was forced to quote Conservative blogs to justify his case, quite pathetic.
27

An Beal Bacht,

12/06/2008 14:46:33
I see Traquir's been allowed back. Gie thum laldy Traquir.
28

steve 1511,

aberdeen 12/06/2008 14:50:10
herr broon of the labour stasi party with his votes for bribes policy,has reduced westminster to the same system as a banana republic,the same system used by mr mugabe,
29

Yeah1,

12/06/2008 14:54:11
David Davis is clearly opposed to 42-days and is risking his position and personal finance to a certain extent but this is largely just a publicity stunt.

Davis is very likely to get re-elected and the tories are clearly eager to damage labour even further, and perhaps believe that another resounding by-election thrashing will further destroy them before the next election.

It will be interesting though if this by-election is fought purely on the 42-day issue. Recent polls suggest that three-quarters of the population are actually in favour of 42-days, and clearly it is particularly something that traditional tory voters would support strongly, so will they come out to vote for someone who opposes it so vehemently?
30

,

12/06/2008 14:54:17
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31

kimba,

12/06/2008 15:01:48
This guy should be PM,David Davis is to be congratulated on sticking to his principles.
32

happy english,

London 12/06/2008 15:04:07
Lock them up for longer, the majority of the English favour 42 days.
33

Neal! Whit? Haud yer Whisht!!,

Tunbridge Wells, Kent 12/06/2008 15:08:36
34

Happy English - I do hope you're wrong. I'm English and I don't favour it!
34

Yeah1,

12/06/2008 15:15:55
#33

"Considering that the only Tory MP who voted in favour was Anne Widdecombe, Tory party policy is clearly anti the 42 day law. Why would Tory voters vote against their own party?"

Yes Tory party policy is against the 42-day law because this stance offered them an excellent opportunity to further damage labour. Several Tory MPs had private misgivings regarding this policy but were towed into line by Cameron and Davis.

Tory voters are not likely to vote against their own party, but if this by-election is held solely on the 42-day issue it will be still be interesting to see how many actually vote because traditionally most Tory voters are right-wing and therefore support issues such as the 42-day law.
35

Steven P,

edinburgh 12/06/2008 15:18:44
I can't see what Davis can achieve by calling a by-election. The Lib-Dems have refused to stand against him, and if Labour have any sense, they will decline to field a candidate either calling his bluff. So he gets a free ride back to where he was and for what?
36

Scott Webb.......,

12/06/2008 15:23:20
His own words :)

http://video.news.sky.com/skynews/video/?&videoSourceID=1318889&flashURL=/feeds/skynews/latest/flash/davis_resigns_120608.flv
37

happy english,

London 12/06/2008 15:25:09
#35 64% of the English are in favour of the 42 days, after seeing what carnage the terroist done here in London do you really think that the majority of English care for how long they are locked up, it is better safe then sorry.
#36 My opinion, how will you know they have done nothing wrong? what if the police have had the extra time to gather evidence and they have found proof that they are guilty. Do not call me ignorant it is do gooders like you that let terroist get away scot free.
38

Huntly loon,

Aberdeenshire 12/06/2008 15:27:44
I think David Davis is sincere in his intentions but I think it's a bit of gesture politics. What he has done is to deny his constituents represenation for the vacancy, caused public expense in running a by-election. Hopefully, he will be returned unopposed. It is easy to stand down when your party is ahead in the polls and you will in all probability be returned. I cannot see Labour wishing to join him in the exercise to have their candidate humiliated with a lost deposit. After all there will be a general election in 2 years and Davis would have been the MP until then any way. He will likely be opposed only by the monster raving loonies and the bizarre nutters who stand on such occasions. While I admire his intentions I question his common sense.
39

Calum Crubag,

12/06/2008 15:29:36
It's official. Labour are more right-wing and authoritarian than the Tories.
40

Happydays,

Bristol 12/06/2008 15:30:48
The Labour Party have become too dictatorial for their own good. ASBOs meant to control yobs, now being used for old grannies arguing, farmers with noisy hens etc. Local authorities having the power to criminalise ordinary folk through overfull bins and the wrong kind of waste. CCTV covering every step and car journey we take. To name but a few.

42 days for terrorists, before long it will cascade down to other offences, local councils will probably use it contain persistent bin offenders. Once something gets into the bureacratic system it will never be let go off just in case. Modern day politicians may make all sorts of wonderful promises but what about in twenty years time.

Stalin and Hilter must be laughing their heads of, probably green with envy at our folly for letting it happen.
41

Mr. Lachie Todd,

Edinburgh 12/06/2008 15:31:47
The hapless Gordon Brown and dying Labour Government has been thrown a lifeline by Daring David Davis?

It appears there are deep divisions in the Conservative Party and it would be ironic if Cameron and Davis are about to rerun the years of bitter duality between Blair and Brown? Who is in charge?

Cameron who had no knowledge of this annoncement is seething but you can always rely on the Tories to shoot themselves in the foot!

The Labour Party probably cannot believe it's luck!

42

Yeah1,

12/06/2008 15:32:33
#40

"I would have thought that Mr Davies is privy to much more high level security intelligence than the ordinary man on a train at Waterloo."

I'm not sure what your point is? I am not saying Davis doesn't have access to high level security info, I am just saying that since tory voters are generally right-wing the majority of them (as well as quite a few Tory MPs) are not likely to have the same stance regarding 42 days as Davis does.

"Mr Davies is doing the public a great service by challenging the Government. Let's hope he gets the support I believe he deserves."

There are far better ways to challenge the government than by holding a pointless, money-consuming, publicity stunt of a by-election.

I am sure Davis will win a landslide, but I would suggest that the majority of those voting for him will be doing so in order to 'give the government a kicking' rather than because they oppose the 42 day law (as most tory voters actually support it).
43

Neal! Whit? Haud yer Whisht!!,

12/06/2008 15:38:53
41

Happy - 64% indeed. However I notice it's from a YouGov poll and is therefore probably stacked full of prime Liebour supporters.

I think we can dismiss it as not truly representative!
44

It's me!,

12/06/2008 15:41:59
He could have a bit of a farcical victory if labour do the same as the libs and don't put a candidate either. No pre election discussion about civil liberties and he, Davies, is elected back to the H of C until the next general election. Waste of time, really.
45

Yeah1,

12/06/2008 15:51:01
#50

"Cameron is not seething. He is uncompromising in his respect for David Davies' decision and even consulted him over the appointment of his successor as Shadow Home Secretary."

Do you know this because you are a personal friend of Cameron's? If not, perhaps you could direct me to where you found the above information?
46

happy english,

london 12/06/2008 16:06:54
#47 Do you really think that the majority of people care how long this people are held for and the latest poll from Sky TV shows that 69% of people favour the 42 days detention. My country put up with the IRA bombing us and now we have the nutcase Muslims. Anyone who the Police think they have reason to be suspicious off should be held for no matter how long, especially if they are Terroist suspects. I am afraid that the Tories are looking very stupid at the moment.
47

Indigo Nightlight,

12/06/2008 16:07:49
Principles my eye. Publicity seeking and an attempt to put more pressure on Brown.

What is the point of having a parliament if folk just resign because they lose votes? that's not democracy at work. The public will get their day to judge Brown and the Labour party, but until then, they have been elected to govern the country. So if they win a vote, they win a vote. If you don't agree with the process, don't take part in it. The vote result is not going to change cause he throws a hissy fit.

How much is this absolute farce going to cost the taxpayer?
48

Neal! Whit? Haud yer Whisht!!,

Tunbridge Wells, Kent 12/06/2008 16:14:09
53

Happy English - My Country? My Country? I'll have you know that I, I am ENGLISH. Born and Bred in Kent - in fact I am a Man of Kent thankyou very much!

With that attitude I really think you need to go and live in America where they hold the rights of people in the same way as you.

You would make this a Country to be scared of living in. You would make this Country DIFFERENT to the one YOU and I grew up in.

You'd do well in Israel too.

The Tories look stupid?

You look like a Nazi!
49

an interested party,

12/06/2008 16:28:21
Is the oh so moralistic Mr Davis going to pay for the cost of the bi election ?
it is clearly an avoidable cost that he has chosen to
inflict on the tax payer

perhaps he will claim it as expenses if he was still an mp
50

happy english,

London 12/06/2008 16:33:25
#53 Hey Big Mouth I am from Kent to in fact I am from Rochester a Man of Kent more like A Wimp from Kent. I have lived in America for three years in Norfolk Virginia as a matter of fact and yes I love everything about America and I admire the Israeli's greatly. If you have nothing to hide you have nothing to worry about it seems to me you have plenty to worry about. You are a idiot using the same old 'You are a Nazi argument' grow up or shut up.
51

Neal! Whit? Haud yer Whisht!!,

12/06/2008 16:33:33
Mr Davis does appear to have Principles and is willing to stand and be counted for them.

Whatever the outcome he is to be applauded for it. If only more MP's could be shown to have the same 'right stuff' in them!
52

Silence of the Yams,

12/06/2008 16:38:30
The majority of the public support 42 days, Davis! Total idiot.
53

Jock MacTamson 2,

Highlands 12/06/2008 16:40:17
If only Mr Davis gave a hoot about 42 days of detention. This is clever strategy. This issue was dead and burried and Gordon Brown got through it just and no more. Once it gets thrown back from the House of Lords we have the issue still burning. In the mean time David Davis will because of his high profile have this all over the media due to his actions.

Damaging Brown will be very easy and this can only be good for the Cameron and Davis in the meantime. Its a political win, win.

Worst case scenario he looks like a man of principle which is an illusion few MP's manage.

Another nail in the coffin of Comrade Brown. Another step towards the collapse of Labour in the UK and a small step towards self government for all the countries of the UK. Hoorah!
54

Jock MacTamson 2,

Higlands 12/06/2008 16:41:33
Scotwebb is this considered a conspiracy theory?
55

Neal! Whit? Haud yer Whisht!!,

12/06/2008 16:41:50
57

Ah, you're a Medway Towns Pikey then? When I can get Arrested and brought to Trial simply for saying to 2 policemen as they STRUTTED down the road - "You people make me sick" - then this Country is in the SHYT.

And for people like you to say you want MORE of it is beyond belief. If you want a Totalitarian State then go and live in one - Don't create one out of My Country!!
56

Geoff,

sa 12/06/2008 16:43:30
The world is turned upside down.
57

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

12/06/2008 16:44:03
It is gesture politics and political grandstanding of the worst kind.

Whilst it may be a win-win situation in the short run - assuming it continues to damage Brown - in the long run I'm not so sure. If Brown ends up as completely damaged goods and goes then we have a whole new ball game.
58

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

12/06/2008 16:52:23
"#53 happy english,london 12/06/2008 16:06:54
#47 Do you really think that the majority of people care how long this people are held for"

There are a large number of voters who, when it comes to law and order, could not give a damn about civil liberties. Assuming that Labour does not stand - they would be mad to do so - then the only party that could garner a vote against the Tories would be the BNP. What is meant to be a byelection to embarrass Labour could backfire and end up giving a boost to the far right.
59

happy english,

LONDON 12/06/2008 16:59:09
#62 Medway Towm Pikey you can call me what you want because the betting is that I have achieved more then you in life, if a Pikey can do as well in life as I have then by all means call me it as many times as you would like. I do not give a dam if a Camera is watching me nor do I give a dam if I have to carry ID nor do I give a dam for how long people are locked up for if they have to be held to see if there is any Evidence against them being a Terroist. I am all for being safer, I hate to think that I was on a train with my Daughter and we got blown to pieces by some Terroist. And the truth of the matter is that the Majority of the Country want this.
60

James.com,

12/06/2008 16:59:54
If Brown is so convinced of his case and "with the majority of the British public" behind him,why doesn't he resign too and stand against him. Now that would be novel a politician putting his Seat where his mouth is!
61

Scott Webb.......,

12/06/2008 17:01:31
One on one With Alan Bolton as to his reasons

http://video.news.sky.com/skynews/video/?&videoSourceID=1318907&flashURL=/feeds/skynews/latest/flash/davis_sky_interview_1600_120608.flv
62

Neal! Whit? Haud yer Whisht!!,

12/06/2008 17:09:42
67

How did personal achievement come into this?

As I say, go and reside in America then if you like the abrogation of Civil Liberties so much, don't inflict it on me and mine!
63

Neal! Whit? Haud yer Whisht!!,

12/06/2008 17:14:46
67 Happy -

Oh, and learn to spell and punctuate properly.

All Posters:

Thanks Everybody, another excellent debate as usual. Time to go. Ciao x
64

happy english,

London 12/06/2008 17:18:31
#67 Because I brought them into it, can you please explain why you had the need to call me a Pikey a Medway Pikey in fact.
I go to the States very often so I have no need to live there, It is not about Civil Liberties it is about keeping people safe, are you one of those highly strung do gooders?.
65

gloop,

12/06/2008 17:19:28
#19 Traquir, the Albanian

"My SNP friends are already licking their lips"

"This means Alex Salmond is sitting on a potential goldmine"

"which could mean an independent Scotland using the facilities to service American, English or French subs...for a price, of course"

Tranquilizer you reveal how the snp have no morality no one mention of Scotland or the Scottish peoples.
Just Alex and the snp licking thier lips at all the cash they can gain for themselves.

Further than that you even expect Alex as a lifelong PACIFIST to gleefully service nuclear weapons of mass destruction.


You pal have lost the plot you rag bag nationalist sc#m
but I'll tell you this. Alex ain't going to try to make a profit out of weapons of mass destruction.

now fecke off back to your cave.
66

ddmc,

12/06/2008 17:24:13
Interesting that no one advocated longer detention when interogating IRA suspects, i wouldnt imagine any terrorist is going to willingly volunteer information. So 14 or 400 days wont help them.
67

happy english,

London 12/06/2008 17:47:39
#71 Coward.
68

jockstrap,

Cyprus 12/06/2008 17:52:53
I wonder if any of the Labour rebels will resign and fight for re election on their principles.None I should think
69

john z,

edinburgh 12/06/2008 18:05:16
I never ever thought I'd see the day when I actually had any respect for a Tory. But, I have the fullest of respect for Mr Davis. This is what politicians should be like, standing up for their principles.

Mr Davis is 100% correct that the current control freakery government have happily destroyed many of the freedoms in law throughout the UK. It is an absolute joy that Mr Davis has chosen to make a stand on these issues;

The largest non voluntary DNA database in the world - more than in any dictatorship

more CCTV spy cameras than any other country, more than in any dictatorship (there is one camera for every fourteen people)

Powers to intercept telephone calls, bug houses and read personal post for simple matters like choice of School,

Spy cameras monitoring bin lids...

and so on. Many people foolishly think the 42 day rule would only apply to convicted terrorists, but they miss what it means. You or I or ANYBODY on suspicion of ANY involvement or ASSOCIATION (the same pub or Gym for example) with terrorists or suspects, however remote will lead to you or I being held in solitary confinement for six weeks, not knowing the charge or the suspicions or even the evidence.

Well done Mr.Davis. He should get a knighthood for this.

I wonder if any of the labour/DUP wasters who voted for 42 days last night in exchange for bribes understand the contempt which people have for them.
70

Cauchy Riemann,

Wales 12/06/2008 18:08:14
#66
If Labour don't stand its for two reasons. 1) They think they'll lose and 2) They think David Davis will win the argument.

Labour not standing will make them look scared and weak. Yes it will take the wind out of David Davis' sails because there would be no-one to debate, but it will also damage Labour. Remember the dithering over whether to have an election or not? Voters instinctively distrust parties that appear weak & feeble.

Another point here is the House of Lords. They will probably kick this back to the Commons and the Commons kick it back. If David Davis wins by a landslide then the House of Lords are going to be less inclined to accomodate the government. They will have a justification to make problems because they will point to how people voted.

If David Davis wins, and wins by a lot, it makes the government position on 42 days, and on increasing intrusiveness by the state in general, look as if it doesn't have popular support.

For instance whenever ID cards comes up, or expanding the DNA database - all these arguments will have the backdrop of David Davis' by election - especially if he romps home.

Essentially what he is doing is attempting a mini-referendum on increasing state intrusion.
71

SouthernSkye,

12/06/2008 18:23:03
Well done Mr Davis.
If the majority of comments on here were taken as a broad overview of public opinion then the result would appear to be the majority do not, and rightly so, support 6 weeks detention without charge.
72

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

12/06/2008 18:41:53
#80 The majority of those who post here though are not particularly representative of the general public as a whole.

Davis is not taking a big risk - his nearest challengers were the Lib Dems - Labour were miles behind in third place with only 12.7% of the vote. Moreover, with the government being as unpopular as it is Davis is banking on that increasing his majority along with the Lib Dems not standing. It should be seen for the politically opportunistic move that it is - it is not about principle but about making the government look stupid.

I actually wish the Lib dems had the guts to stand against him - because I think they would have a chance of beating him - they were 5,116 votes behind at the last election and could well have picked up many votes from those who don't trust either of the two main parties.
73

an interested party,

12/06/2008 19:12:30
let me ask you
do have curtains ?
do you lock your house?
you car?

what are you hiding ?
74

an interested party,

12/06/2008 19:15:22
when you see a deer in the woods
why does it run?
75

sm753,

12/06/2008 19:25:44
Bravo - a combination of high principle and low political cunning.

Can we do anything similar up here?
76

Nikostratos,

12/06/2008 19:30:06
#81

Wouldn't you like to know..what you haven't noticed it's missing yet? tut tut tut

#82

it's running from that bear
77

Cauchy Riemann,

Wales 12/06/2008 19:56:33
#80 wrote:
"It should be seen for the politically opportunistic move that it is - it is not about principle but about making the government look stupid."

Nonsense. Your opinion is absolute rubbish and ill-informed.

Quite a few Labour people think he has shot himself in the foot, and from a Tory point of view there is no need to do this - Labour are finished anyway.

This is about principle. He's making as big an issue out of it as possible. He's sacrificed his position in the shadow cabinet. If the Tories don't wish to revisit the 42 days issue in government then David Davis will be completely out of it.

His resignation is risky to himself and doesn't actually further the Tory party - who are doing fine by leaving it up to Labour.

He has a genuine belief that this issue of increasing state power is a very important one, and something of issue with voters. (Not just 42 days, but ID cards DNA database etc)

Whilst it might not be with some, it certainly strikes a chord with me, and he is attempting to make this a central issue.
78

Banana Heid,

Ayrshire 12/06/2008 20:14:45
It's a great gesture but what's the point? I would understand if some Labour mp's had quit in fact i think they should but isn't David Davis resigning playing into the governments hands? he's weakening the main opposition. I just don't get it. Perhaps one of you forum intellects can explain the strategy here?
79

weh,

12/06/2008 20:41:56
The precedent is that that revenues from UK assets in a devolved territory are the property of that devolved government, not Westminster."

Whether or not the little matter of whether a precedent may or may not have been set, Traquair, will not, I may assure you, divert Bean from his stated task of allowing NOT ONE IOTA of additional revenues nor power, to the Scots people!

Remember, this is the quisling who, when asked where he was born, replied "North Britain."

Need more proof?



80

Wynn,

CLYDESDALE 12/06/2008 20:49:15
If I may be allowed a moment of idealism...
I see Davis in a new role, as leader of a new party...one that stands to protect the rights and freedoms of The Queen's subjects and gathers its support from the disaffected of all the other parties (there must be many). With true socialism at heart plus conservative know-how...
81

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

12/06/2008 20:58:58
If Davis is so principled why did he vote for the original 28 days in the first place?
82

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

12/06/2008 21:07:29
#85 Davis is on an ego trip - as if a man who voted for section 28 and wants to repeal the Human Rights Act can give anyone else lessons on liberty.


83

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

12/06/2008 21:14:31
#90 PS Mr Liberty also supports the death penalty.

If he has a problem with innocent people going on the DNA database why does he have no problem with possibly innocent people being executed by the state?
84

Cauchy Riemann,

Wales 12/06/2008 21:37:47
What on earth has voting for section 28 and supporting the death penalty got to do with this?

Don't you understand that you can be libertarian (minimal state interference & control) and not be towards the left?


#91 blurted out "why does he have no problem with possibly innocent people being executed by the state?"

Based on that principle you could always say that anyone who supported criminals going to jail 'has no problem with possibly innocent people being locked up by the state for a great part of their lives'.

Your problem is a limited left wing mindset that imagines everyone who believes in a degree of freedom from the State must be firmly on the left. And of course Davis being on the 'right' must be 'evil' and hence all his motives are all wrong.

The problem is the limited prism through which you view the world - caricaturing what being on the 'right' means.

The reality is that there are people both on the left and right, both progressive and conservative (with a small c), that have principles and can disagree with each other on certain things but also agree with each other on other things.

It's mindlessness to merely parrot one's prejudices about the left & right and not recognise this.
85

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

12/06/2008 21:45:52
#92 Where did I mention left and right?

His views are inconsistent. Why is 28 days ok but 42 days not - it is completely arbitrary.

It is not about principle.

As for my viewpoint - I recognise that their are liberal and libertarian viewpoints on the left and right that are completely in opposition to more statist views on the left and right.

Davis tries to play the libertarian card but is anything but a libertarian.
86

James.com,

12/06/2008 21:58:53
The reason Davis is against the Human Rights Act is that it is based on European Law, and were it conflicts with British (including Scottish) Law, takes Precedent. The Tories want to replace it with a British Human Rights Act where National Law prevails.
87

,

12/06/2008 21:59:35
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
88

Conan the Librarian™,

12/06/2008 22:19:41
96
Respect Traquir.

Was talking today to a Labour MP who voted "reluctantly" for the bill.
He said that MPs had been given information from MI5, that there is still a very real threat.
A mass attack of involving over twenty to thirty people would tie up investigative resources, ergo a longer time would be needed to investigate.

Politicians eh? He almost convinced me!
89

Conan the Librarian™,

12/06/2008 22:21:46
Woops 95
90

scotsdoc,

NANAIMO 12/06/2008 23:40:47

At least one man has the guts(and the gumption) to stand up and be counted.


Well done, Sir.

 

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