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Science lab demonstration to highlight danger of smoking banned in schools

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Published Date:
07 February 2007
SCHOOLS in Scotland have been banned from using smoke machines in science laboratories to demonstrate the dangers of nicotine after the Scottish Executive warned it would breach anti-smoking legislation.
The move has been derided as "ludicrous" by opposition MPs, who argued that the experiment was safe if conducted in a school science laboratory.

About 300 out of Scotland's 400 or so secondary schools have in the past used the simple device, which consists of a fitted pipe and a lit cigarette.

The Department of Health in England will permit the experiment when its smoking legislation is enacted this summer.

However, teachers north of the Border could face prosecution if they use the mechanism with a lit cigarette inside the classroom to demonstrate the impact of smoking.

Instead, they have been told they must have a properly designated "smoking" laboratory room designated specifically for the experiment or conduct the test outdoors.

The ruling has baffled an advisory body, the Scottish Schools Equipment Research Centre, which argued that conducting the smoking machine test outside could actually be more dangerous to pupils' health if smoke was blown their way on a windy day.

Ministers in Scotland are now facing calls to amend the Smoking, Health and Social Care (Scotland) Act 2005 to exempt smoking machines.

Willie Rennie, the Liberal Democrat MP for Dunfermline and West Fife, said he had fielded complaints from science teachers who were keen to show the impact of smoking on the lungs.

Mr Rennie said: "I am alarmed that the Scottish Executive is interpreting the legislation in this way.

" This experiment is a valuable tool in the campaign to persuade people not to smoke."

Jim Docherty, the depute general secretary of the Scottish Secondary Teachers' Association, said the authorities had to make it "abundantly clear" to teachers that they could face prosecution if they failed to comply with the new law. "If someone were to conduct the experiment, I don't think that prosecution would be an appropriate measure. I would hope any teacher would know they could not carry it out inside," he said.

Kenneth Robertson, the secretary of the education division of the Royal Society of Chemistry, and head of science at a Glasgow school, said: "Now the dangers of smoking have to be conveyed via a video which just doesn't have the same impact."

A Scottish Executive spokeswoman said:

"Schools have to ensure that smoking experiments conducted inside school premises can fit with this specific exemption otherwise the practice would be a violation of the law."

• SUPERMODEL Kate Moss was attacked by MSPs yesterday for setting a bad example by smoking.

Andy Kerr, the health minister, said he believed that paparazzi pictures of the celebrity with a cigarette in her hand were a factor in encouraging young women to take up the habit. "It's age-old evidence in relation to how people view pop stars, rock stars and actors," Mr Kerr told Holyrood's health committee.

"And, yes, I would want people to look at their behaviour and ensure that they're not setting what is a very dangerous example for young people."

He said celebrities such as Moss should not be "so blasé" about smoking in public, adding: "I would ask her to refrain in terms of public smoking and understand the impact she's having on young people's lives."

A quarter of 15-year-old girls in Scotland are regular smokers.

The committee yesterday discussed the impact of Scotland's public smoking ban.MSPs were told it has led to a 86 per cent drop in exposure to second-hand smoke for bar workers.

Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 06 February 2007 10:46 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Teaching
 
1

David Cavers,

Ontario, Canada 07/02/2007 00:52:56

I had to think for a bit after reading the artical, and I have come to the conclustion, that the Science experiment should be allowed to be carried out in the schools. As long as it's done in a controled manner, which Im sure the Science Teachers do.

However I do have a problem, with seemingly "Double Standard" that the Scottish Executive is playing. If schools in England will still be allowed to carry out the experiment, then schools in Scotland should be also. It should be a level playing field for everyone.

2

James I,

Queensland 07/02/2007 02:48:35

Something is not right here. Don't they have fume cupboards in school labs these days?

3

Dibby,

Hobart 07/02/2007 03:18:32

This experiment would def put people off smoking if they could see the muck that comes out the cig and into the lungs.
Banning it is completely stupid. Ok, there would be some smoke inhaled by the bystanders but if this put them off smoking for a lifetime surely that would be great! ...oh and James, I also remember fume cupboards when I was at school.

4

Pete39,

Tassy 07/02/2007 05:43:35

The only answer I can see is to give your average Oap smoker a couple of hundred ciggies. Arrange for him to go around the schools and demonstrate smoking, downwind of course. Explain to the students that under the present legislation it is a disgusting expensive habit. Let them contemplate his less than desirable appearance and with the help of the local hospital, try and get full colour photos of his lungs. I would volunteer for that, but only in Tassy.

5

KATIE MAC NAUGHTON,

Edinburgh 07/02/2007 06:31:45

Anything that would stop children from smoking , can only be a good thing, this is ridiculous, for the short time it would take, gees a break.

6

Anne,

07/02/2007 07:48:52

But who is actually smoking in this experiment?
Not the teacher, not the pupils.....
Just wait twenty years till the first ex-pupil sues their local council for not having properly taught them about the dangers of smoking, leading to their suffering from bronchitis or whatever!

7

IanW,

Germany 07/02/2007 07:58:41

It is typical of the nutty policies and decisions coming out of our so-called leaders minds and mouths.
School experiments are controlled and no-one is in any danger. Only through experimentation are children going to learn. Better that they do so in a safe controlled environment than finding out in the harsh world of reality.

8

rab, glasgow,

07/02/2007 08:22:24

Are log fires also banned from pubs and hotel chains? the executive are a useless bunch of pc mad morons.

9

paulr,

07/02/2007 08:49:47

Beurocracy is a wonderfull thing.....

10

Douglas,

Bathgate 07/02/2007 09:21:45

Fair play to the minister re his comments on Kate Moss smoking in public.
His own pie inhalation takes place away from the public gaze.

11

James I,

07/02/2007 09:46:48

Dibby #3: I realise now that I was being a little disingenuous in my #2 post. I have recently worked as a trainee science teacher in several schools and ALL had fume cupboards. This experiment could be conducted using a fume cupboard with NIL risk to bystanders. I don't understand what's going on here, it seems like some sort of PC media disinformation beat up. What's rather sad is that it sems to have completely conned the Scottish Executive into ignoring the authoratative advice of the Scottish Schools Equipment Research Centre.

12

rab, glasgow,

07/02/2007 10:06:58

11. James I / The executive dont need to be conned into ignoring anyone,
they have been ingnoring the majority for years with their pc nanny state bans and stupid policies.
Lets vote these wasters out.

13

rab, glasgow,

07/02/2007 10:08:58

PS KERR IN AN IDIOT

14

.,

07/02/2007 11:24:15

There is a way around this, the schools just build a room solely to conduct this experiment. I'm sure after a few hundred proposals costed in the tens of thousands of pounds there may be a review...

To quote the Act...

"EXEMPTIONS


1. Residential accommodation.

2. Designated rooms in adult care homes.

3. Adult hospices.

4. Designated rooms in psychiatric hospitals and psychiatric units.

5. Designated hotel bedrooms.

6. Detention or interview rooms which are designated rooms.

7. Designated rooms in offshore installations.

8. Private vehicles

9. Designated laboratory rooms.

10. HM Submarines and ships of the Royal Fleet Auxiliary."

And

""designated laboratory room" means a room in a laboratory, the recognised activities of which laboratory consist of, or include, the conduct of scientific education or research into smoking, which–

(a) is set apart exclusively for the testing of smoke;

(b) has been designated by the person having the management or control of the laboratory as being a room in which smoking is only permitted for scientific purposes;

(c) has a ceiling and, except for doors and windows, is completely enclosed on all sides by solid floor to ceiling walls;

(d) has a ventilation system that does not ventilate into any other part of the laboratory (except any other designated laboratory rooms); and

(e) is clearly marked as a room in which smoking is only permitted for scientific purposes;"

15

Firozali A.Mulla MBA PhD,

Dar-Es-Salaam Tanzania 07/02/2007 12:28:16

SCHOOLS in Scotland have been banned from using smoke machines
I know the picture is of cigarette or call this fags. Magnesium is a ribbon that flares with little spark and the acids came become pretty close to face transplant.
Let us look at the facts.
There is from I have fed to see how the heart beats. I keep this for many day and then I buy powerful telescope that we watch the stars with, as I have a poor sight when it is frog’s heart and I am sort of a gentlemen. I cut this watching with the IRAQ like goggles and see the green blood coming out. How dos the smoke soil the heart of the frog?
That was Biology. If you talk of Chemistry we have similar questions. To talk of Physics I give up as we have few PhD physics teachers or students.
Conclusion.
DO NOT SMOKE in the lab. Simple. Or you are out for good.

Now here is the laugh .

Instead, they have been told they must have a properly designated "smoking" laboratory room designated specifically for the experiment or conduct the test outdoors.

A Scottish Executive spokeswoman said:

"Schools have to ensure that smoking experiments conducted inside school premises can fit with this specific exemption otherwise the practice would be a violation of the law."

A quarter of 15-year-old girls in Scotland are regular smokers.
That is 25%

The move has been derided as "ludicrous" by opposition MPs, who argued that the experiment was safe if conducted in a school science laboratory.


So let the students die. The Pharmaceuticals companies have their laws and schools theirs. And there are no practical classes in the Lab of the R&D

16

Gordon R,

NL Canada 07/02/2007 12:32:46

Of course there is no risk to anyone because of fume cabinets etc.. It's just that they are going by the letter of this stupid law. No one could have thought about this implication when the law was formed. All it needs is an amendment and that' probably what they have done in England, written in an exclusion. I am a lifelong non smoker (60 years of age) and it is my choice whether to go in to a pub or not when people are smoking and I chose to do so. If I didn't like it I could always stay at home with my beer and a bottle. I believe that smokers like any other group should be more vociferous about their rights, yes it's bad for people but so is drunk driving and too much trans fat in your diet.

17

petrol head,

Edinburgh 07/02/2007 14:50:52

When I was at school, we didn't waste time examining fag smoke in the classroom (although one bloke did light up in assembly, "Charlie Brown" style!) We did all of our experiments with fags either behind the bike sheds or up the top of the playing fields. Chemistry lessons were reserved for more interesting things like the thermite process or seeing if it was possible to burn hydrogen in a controlled flame (that certainly caused a few big bangs!)

Anyway, why are they teaching kids that airborne tobacco smoke is harmful? That is simply not true and teaching them in this way is just indoctrination. Mind you, that's typical of a Nazi state. Isn't it?

18

rab, glasgow,

07/02/2007 14:53:21

18. petrol head, Edinburgh /As jackboot would say ,"zieg heil".

19

.,

07/02/2007 17:06:49

Comments 18 & 19 would show the poverty of our education system.
The only place airborne smoke is mentioned is in post 18, so that's a fail for comprehension.
19, it's "sieg" so a fail for your German skills.

20

Jockyw,

07/02/2007 17:53:36

Scottish Executive / losers, this is research for the better in the future. If schools could educate all children of the negetives etc Scotland could possibly have nil smokers.

What would be best for the people etc given 100 scenrios.

This just shows what a bunch of tossers that are attempting inconjunction to run our country. Worthless the lot of them.

21

Brew Master,

07/02/2007 17:57:49

Do you have the great outdoors in Scotland? Take the kids outside and do the experiment there. Better yet visit a lung cancer ward. Bring in a guest speaker with emphysema or an electronic voice box.

Give them an example of the life long effects of smoking not just a couple of plastic lungs that get a bit of tar on them. I'm not sure if that's the experiment in question, but that's the one I'm familiar with.

22

Colin,

Banff 07/02/2007 18:37:28

And for balance we should tell them that smokers have a 92% chance of NOT contracting lung cancer.

Should we tell them about Jeanne Calment who died at 128 after smoking for 110 years?

Should we tell them about Fulla Nayak who died at 125 after smoking for 117 years?

Should we tell them the actual truth, that SHS is harmless to 99.99% of the worlds population?

Should we tell them the hoax was invented purely to sell nicotine "packaged differently" to gullible fools who believed that it would help them quit?

I have another thousand truths. Should I send them to the education board and ask that they also be included in the curriculum, in the interests of fairness?

23

Colin,

Banff 07/02/2007 18:41:00

My apologies for the typo. Jeanne Calment died aged 123, not 128.

It just brings up another question really.

Should we tell the kids that smokers have the world record for longevity?

Or should we just keep pumping their heads full of lies?

24

ex ex-pat,

edinburgh 07/02/2007 18:54:58

Colin (23 & 24), you are an idiot. Of course there are exceptions to every rule, but children must learn that cigarette smoking is NOT COOL, NOT CLEVER, NOT HEALTHY, and IT WILL KILL THEM - which it will, one way or another. Lung cancer is but one cause of death among smokers. I agree with those of you who suggest letting kids see people with smoking-related diseases - just a few COPD patients might do the trick.

25

ex ex-pat,

edinburgh 07/02/2007 18:55:52

Oh, and I meant to add, the Scottish Executive is made up of a bunch of total numpties.

26

rab, glasgow,

07/02/2007 18:57:27

24. Colin, Banff / As long as we have a lieing health mincer with a compulsive hand washing disorder and who is extremely paranoid about smoke, then mate, the answer is yes.

27

rab, glasgow,

07/02/2007 19:01:20

25. ex ex-pat,I agree with the bit about numpty,s.
Can you prove that colin is wrong about SHS ,
I think not. So less of the idot stuff.

28

Colin,

Banff 07/02/2007 19:08:38

#27, thanks Rab.

#25,

An unusual debating strategy, but all too predictable from an anti smoking Jihadi.

Perhaps we should apply the same rules to other, more deadly, legal substances or devices?

Huge signs all over cars and trucks that say "Driving Kills"!!

Huge signs all over any bottles containing alcohol saying "Drinking Kills"!!!

Huges gates surrounding ANY body of water with huge signs saying "Water KILLS"!!!

All three statements are 100% true.

29

mandyv,

Banthisbanthatbantheotherland 07/02/2007 21:37:25

Maybe they could show diesal and asbestos lungs, tell them not to drive for a living, given the high risk of it for cancer, give them all the information, maybe the next generation will find the true causes of cancer, without being blinkered by anti paranoia of so called "passive smoking".
Smoking has been on the decrease for many years, so why are cancer rates rising.
16# Gordon, freedom2choose.co.uk is fighting for choice, no tobacco money, no Pharma money, just people who believe the ban is wrong, tolerant non-smokers and smokers alike.

30

rab, glasgow,

07/02/2007 21:56:51

30. Mandy, Banthisbanthatbantheotherland /Well said.

31

Bill Crombie,

07/02/2007 22:12:27

How on earth can any Scottish voter take your Health Minister seriously, when he implies that Kate Moss is responsible for thousands of Scots taking up smoking. This guy has completely lost the plot - me thinks that men in white coats are called for. Failing that, kick this bunch of self-serving, santimonious idiots out of office at the May 2007 elections and hopefully replace them with people of sanity and meaningful purpose.

32

mandyv,

Banthisbanthatbantheotherland 07/02/2007 23:40:17

Thanks Rab, Exactly Bill, are all your MPs nice and slim, because we need good role models, obesity in MPs is out in this PC crazy world, anyone would think Kate Moss had a gun in her hand.
I personally do not have a problem with overweight peeps, I do if they are antis trying to perfect me.

33

,

08/02/2007 15:26:45
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