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Published Date: 14 June 2009
LABOUR accused the SNP government of betraying newly qualified teachers last night as it claimed hundreds were being forced to compete for single posts.
Figures obtained by the party revealed there were 500 applications for a primary job advertised in North Lanarkshire earlier this year. It said an average of 239 teachers were applying for vacancies in the local authority.

Labour's education spoke
swoman Rhona Brankin described the figures as "horrifying" and warned that teaching graduates would be forced to find work in England or abroad.

Brankin said: "(Education secretary] Fiona Hyslop's handling of the teacher recruitment crisis is shameful.

"To add insult to injury the Scottish Government's website is still carrying adverts encouraging people to train as teachers.

"Fiona Hyslop is guilty of serious betrayal of those enticed into teacher training when teaching posts across Scotland are being cut under her watch – by nearly a thousand last year alone."

A recent survey by the General Teaching Council in Scotland found that only about a third of new teachers had secured full-time permanent work almost a year after qualifying.

Figures showed that nine out of ten new teachers were in some form of employment, including part-time, supply and temporary work. The number of teachers with no job at all halved over the last six months.

Hyslop said of Labour's comments: "They are conveniently forgetting that teacher numbers were higher in 2007 and 2008 under the SNP than in all but one year of the Labour/Liberal administration, while pupil-teacher ratios in Scotland are at a record low.

"The latest GTCS figures show 89 per cent of newly qualified teachers are employed in teaching – up 10.4 per cent since last autumn, and the percentage of post-probation teachers not in employment has fallen from 21 per cent to 10.6 per cent."





The full article contains 310 words and appears in Scotland On Sunday newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 13 June 2009 7:31 PM
  • Source: Scotland On Sunday
  • Location: Scotland
  • Related Topics: Teaching
 
1

Fifi la Bonbon,

14/06/2009 00:13:49
I have a simple solution to this problem. Train the unemployed teachers as police officers and then the Scottish Government can switch them from one role to the other depending on which election promise is being broken most glaringly at any one time.
2

,

14/06/2009 00:25:02
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
3

famous 15,

Edinburgh 14/06/2009 00:25:40
#1 I have a better solution and that is to recognise the wonderful job the SNP Government are doing in difficult circumstances.
4

Conan the Librarian™,

14/06/2009 00:27:11
Genius Fifi.
Teachers that have powers of arrest.
Why did we not think of that sooner?
5

Observer,,

Glasgow 14/06/2009 00:30:36
You are liable to get 500 applications for a job working behind the make up counter at Boots at the moment, so I'm not entirely sure what we should be reading into this.

As far as I am aware teachers aren't actually guaranteed a job when they leave University, and it's always been like that. But 89 % seems like a reasonable figure to me unless there was a time when it was 100 % ?

No, I didn't think so.
6

Fifi la Bonbon,

14/06/2009 00:32:55
We're all going to be working on the wards soon when the flu bites so the new teachers won't be out of work for long.
7

,

14/06/2009 00:33:30
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
8

Fifi la Bonbon,

14/06/2009 00:38:08
Rhona Brankin's constituency includes Lasswade where the community is having to reconcile itself to the fact that it won't get the new High School it was expecting, due to the failure of the Scottish Futurist Trust. She is entitled to be a bit fed up at seeing loads of trained teachers "serving fries with that" as a result of the failure of another of Mister Salmond's policies.
9

Joe Plaice,

the Nutmeg of Consolation 14/06/2009 00:44:53
I agree with Observer and Quisling Gogs.

Fru-fru le Braindrain, spouting your NuLiebore supporting drivel as usual, didn't you notice the drubbing they got in the recent elections? Do you think they are still worthy of one iota of support?

The headline should read, 'Labour continue to attack the SNP for nothing due to their total lack of anything constructive or interesting to say.'
10

Fifi la Bonbon,

14/06/2009 00:51:55
Well, I was just trying to be constructive. Why are you all so rancorous?
11

Willie Mor,

14/06/2009 00:54:41
Forced to work in England or abroad, says Labour's Rhona Brankin.

My my that's a new one that.

Seems that Ms Brankin thinks that Wales and Northern Ireland are abroad.

What utter tripe. Open your mouth and let yer belly rumble.

They don't get the constructive politics bit do they. And no wonder, election after election is consigning Labour in Scotland, England and abroad to the recycle bin.

Indeed, in the Euro election, only 1 in 20 votes in that foreign land of Wales was for Labour. And Wales used to be a Labour colony ( sorry heartland!)

Yes gubbed at home and abroad I am afraid.
12

Joe Plaice,

The Nutmeg of Consolation 14/06/2009 00:56:20
Hahahahahaha, Fru-fru, constructive, not a word associated with your moniker I reckon. Disruptive, contrary, bilious, purile, feeble-minded, desperate, they are more obvious choices.

Cheers.
13

Conan the Librarian™,

14/06/2009 00:58:50
10
Joe,is your name the lesser of two weevils?
14

Fifi la Bonbon,

14/06/2009 01:00:02
#12 - To be fair to Rhona, Scots teachers who train in Scotland would reasonably expect to teach in Scotland in the distinct Scottish education system and under the more advantageous Scottish regime of pay and conditions. Also, many newly qualified teachers are already established with their homes and families and would not be prepared to move house so they would be looking for teaching jobs within reasonable commuting distance.
15

frank mcbride,

lusitania 14/06/2009 01:00:14
Fifi.

Are you incapable of reading to the end on the article?

I believe that, in the final paragraph, the GTC, which keeps the statistics for teachers in Scotland, gives the lie to NuLab's smear.

Also, the newly qualified, and qualifying teachers were recruited in the years 2004 & 2005 during the NuLab/LD administration.
16

Fifi la Bonbon,

14/06/2009 01:01:13
#13 - you are the epitome of rancorousness.
17

Joe Plaice,

The Nutmeg of Consolation 14/06/2009 01:05:32
I've been accused of that but then that's nothing compared to being called a NuLiebore supporter, one of the worst insults I can think of.

Well done Conan, you've identified me, no doubt you also know why I will always have three shillings on me at all times.

Cheers.
18

Iainbroch,

14/06/2009 01:06:29
More Liebore Unionist drivel.
19

Fifi la Bonbon,

14/06/2009 01:06:37
#17 - I certainly got as far as the fourth final paragraph which says "A recent survey by the General Teaching Council in Scotland found that only about a third of new teachers had secured full-time permanent work almost a year after qualifying."

I'm not sure where you find anyone smearing anyone. Most teachers want a permanent full time job and most of the newly qualified ones don't have that since the Nationalist Party took over St Andrew's House.
20

Fifi la Bonbon,

14/06/2009 01:10:22
#21 - it is unwise for a Nationalist supporter to encourage its interlocutors to bring a debate down to the personal appearances of those who represent the Nationalist Party in government. I am more classier than that so I won't. Their policy failures are glaring enough to allow me to take the higher ground.
21

Joe Plaice,

The Nutmeg of Consolation 14/06/2009 01:11:49
And what were the figures for the NuLiebore years in control? How many teachers were fully employed after graduation? I did teacher training in 2007 and everyone knew going into the course that it was a lottery on getting a job at the end of it. That's the thing with teachers, they tend to know a lot and are aware of current affairs, unlike NuLiebore MPs and hirelings.
22

Observer,,

Glasgow 14/06/2009 01:17:15
Fifi what planet are you on that you think newly qualified trachers should be able to automatically get a job where they live ? Or to walk into a permanent job straight away ?

That would be fantastic but it's not happening now - and it didn't happen ever.

23

Brianwci,

14/06/2009 01:20:12
London Labour clearly marching forward with its highly successful tactic of twisting every fact and attacking every SNP policy on principle and blaming every problem within a 200 mile radius of Scotland on the SNP.

Well let's face it, it worked in the Euros.....20.8% in Scotland compared to 15% in the rest of the UK.
24

Fifi la Bonbon,

14/06/2009 01:22:46
"London Labour" - I haven't heard that one for a while! Someone must be using an out-of-date cybernat handbook!
25

,

14/06/2009 01:22:59
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
26

redcliffe62,

14/06/2009 01:36:28
can we have comparisons with how many teachers were employed in the year 2000, so i can make my own mind up whether 89% employed is a good outcome. if the worst 11% do not get a job, based on failing interview and short term placement tests at schools, that may be fair. there is no need to guarantee a job to teachers who have passed academically but do not have the social skills to teach. but if i did a course for 4 years and passed and the position was vocational i would hope if not expect one as well. perhaps too many are being taught for the jobs available, with less attrition due to the recession?
perhaps a teacher can advise as i am open to opinions on a subjcet i do not know a lot about, and we all know statistics can lie.
27

Iainbroch,

14/06/2009 01:56:31
re26

Planet Liebore! In a Galaxy far far away! Where everyone who enters teaching can actually teach.

In my day teachers provided a greater service for a lot less money but then we are not comparing like with like as Teachers probably spend a good part of thier working day now making sure that they dont do anything they might get sued for rather than actually teaching?
28

frank mcbride,

lusitania 14/06/2009 01:58:51
#30, redcliffe62.

There has, from at least the early 70s, been a mismatch between the number of teachers trained and posts available.

That same problem arises in most, if not all, of the Vocational degrees: Law, Medicine, Engineering.

This is not a new phenomenon.
29

Jimmy Fae the West,

Hull 14/06/2009 02:00:09
What a coup for the SNP! Labour confess qualified teaches now are hanging around in the hope of gaining a placement in scotland instead of catching the train south.

Labour's loss is still Scotland's gain.

New Labour will soon be as rare as one of their Scottish policies.
30

brianmca3,

auld reekie 14/06/2009 02:47:27
no matter what westminster does parts of scotland will always vote in labour
we saw this when maggie mark 1 was in power and all labour mps were about as useful as a chocolate fireguard against her
maggie mark 2 he will blame the SNP for anything and everything as he doesnt agree with democracy in scotland
50 years we have had them telling us lie after lie and when these lies are exposed,they deny or just say they are lies
as long as labour have their jobs for the boys stance then we will be like mushrooms
kept in the dark and fed on dung regular
31

Electric Hermit,

14/06/2009 02:55:12
"There has been an increase in teachers finding permanent employment in both sectors since October 2008. Of those teachers who have found employment, the percentage of primary teachers in permanent posts increased by 0.7% to 30.2% whilst the percentage of secondary teachers in permanent posts was, at 62.2%, 4.1% higher than in October."

GTCS - Employment statistics for newly qualified teachers

http://tiny.pl/3jgc

32

Herry Oaksters,

14/06/2009 03:37:19
Rantin Rhona Brankin ,the labour waste of space with a big mouth and no policy except to slag off the SNP.
Rhona Brankin is typical of a labour parasite nothing to offer but abuse and scaremongering.
Stupid stupid woman.
33

Helene,

Ontario, Canada 14/06/2009 04:49:51
It's entirely up to potential teachers to know what the employment market is likely to be. Here in Ontario, there is absolutely no guarantee of any teaching job at all and no governemnt agency advocating on behalf of new teachers. Many potential teachers here go for their teacher education to the USA, Australia and yes, even Edinburgh and Glasgow (who send recruiting teams to Ontario even though they must know that there is a glut of teachers here.) An Australian university was approved by the provincial government a few years ago to set up a satellite faculty of education in the Toronto area to accommodate students who did not get a spot in the Ontario faculties. I certainly encourage new teachers in Scotland who are in a position to do so, to teach in other parts of Britain/world. Those places will be richer for it. As a Scottish trained teacher I was very fortunate to be able to walk into a job in Canada, but that was in the distant past!!
34

morris,

edinburgh 14/06/2009 05:39:56
23
Try and get this into your skull. The number of pupils is in decline and the pupil teacher ratio has been maintained at the level which it was under Labour.
FACT.
The number of teachers is greater than are currently needed with this class size,but thats true of every walk of life with soaring and false unemployment figures courtesy of you know who!FACT
The number of teachers who will retire or quit will see many eventually getting a job teaching.That also is as it is everywhere!FACT
The budget given to education is adequate, and in some council areas they are coping very well, and the difference is who runs the council and how do they spend their budget! The fact that Westminster is REDUCING the block grant to Scotland by 500 million per annum when Scotland is already paying far more into the UK than she gets from it as it is,is a further problem which Edinburghs parliament must deal with. FACT
When you stop claiming to be a socialist and start supporting the people in Scotland instead of the bankrupt quisling pigs in London then you will be taken seriously.
Until then you will rightly be told in no uncertian terms to go back to school yourself, and not as a teacher!

36 Correct Rhona Brankin should be told to shut up.She has absolutely nothing constructive to say ever, and defends the indefensible.IF ANYTHING THATS EVEN MORE DISGUSTING THAN BEING AT THE PIGSTY !

The problem with Labour is they believe that it is honourable to betray the Scottish people,and we should applaud the best liars !
I do not debate whether its better that Scotland is ripped off by a Labour or a Tory government. I say ENOUGH is enough.Its better that Scotland is afforded the dignity of nationhood and not ripped off ever again!
These quislings have gone too far and its time to rid Scotland of its political dross.
35

donald,

glasgow 14/06/2009 05:45:42
Does someone perform lobotomies on Labourites to ensure that they have no memories of their own terms of office and thus make even bigger fools of themselves by parroting remote controlled anti SNP implants?

The North British Labour dinosaur brain is controlled by it's tail fron London and is several millenniums too late by the time it reaches the parts common sense and reason cannot reach.
36

John S,

14/06/2009 06:30:59
Rhona Brankin..............teaching posts are being cut under her (Fiona Hyslop) watch – by nearly a thousand last year alone.

BBC 24 March 2009 - But falling pupil numbers meant the child-to-teacher ratio remained steady, at 13:1.

Scotland pupil to teacher ratios
2006 primary schools 16.3:secondary schools 12.0 (Labour)
2007 & 2008 primary schools 16.1:secondary schools 11.8 (SNP)
2006 pupil-teacher ratio 13.3
2007 & 2008 pupil-teacher ratio 13.1.

Total pupil numbers are expected to drop from 703,000 in 2006 to 666,000 in 2011 and then rise again to 680,000 in 2020 - December 5, 2007

An estimated 6,000 teachers are expected to retire each year, but many are reported to be staying on longer because of the recession, exacerbating the job shortage.Scotsman 22 December 2008
37

Auld Twa,

Edinburgh 14/06/2009 08:02:11
A sign of the hard times, nothing special to do with teaching.
How many people applied for the last postman, fireman, bus driver, electrician, etc job advertised in this area ?
38

letmein,

hinterland 14/06/2009 08:51:16
What has changed since the trough swilling labour sheite were in control. What is the point of becoming a teacher when you know that there are not as many kids being born. So less teachers are required.People who want to be teachers and do not know the facts are simply deluded. I dont care what mince nuLiebour try to spin, it's all anti SNP anyway.
39

The Tin Man,

14/06/2009 08:53:41
"We will maintain teacher numbers in the face of falling school rolls"...

More importantly, I see the latest wheeze is to comprehensively reject 14 year-olds access to sitting any external exams, whatsoever, if they are deemed unworthy. Probably leading to immediate applications for a career in the rubbish management industry.
40

dunedin bully wee 1877,

14/06/2009 08:55:58
A few years ago I was involved in bringing a new business to Rhona Brankin’s constituency .

This was a branch of an English based PLC in the construction industry and was creating an initial fifty (50) jobs in the area.
Rhona Brankin, as the local MSP was invited along to the official opening of the newly built office premises on the site of a former coal mine.

Despite a number of phone calls to her office, letters and e-mails, Ms Brankin never once responded.
(I know this to be the case because I was the individual who invited her).

In the wider sphere of the economy at large perhaps 50 jobs here and there may be seen as fairly irrelevant, but if you ask the 50 families in an area of high unemployment, who gained a working wage from this enterprise to be treated with such disdain by their local MSP, rather sums up the contempt that the Labour Party have for what used to be their core voters.
41

The Tin Man,

14/06/2009 08:57:21
Well done to the Hootsrag for sparing us all from a picture of Hyslop. She has serious make-up issues.
42

The Tin Man,

14/06/2009 09:02:07
#44 bullly

They might have had work on at Holyrood and Westminster back in those days. I am sure that you could get half the exec to drive over in their limos, brandishing ribbon-scissors, nowadays.
43

TWC,

exLabour 14/06/2009 09:04:50

When did these teachers start their training? and why are we training so many?
I remember Jack McConnell being attacked for having too many teachers and Physios trained in the same year.
So this is not a new thing.

£500 Million would pay for a lot of teachers if it wasn't cut.
44

brownlie,

14/06/2009 09:09:23
45 Tin Man

Excellent and well-thought out post!
45

The Tin Man,

14/06/2009 09:19:01
49!
46

morris,

edinburgh 14/06/2009 09:22:32
43 Perhaps you would care to enlighten us .
Just what benefit is there in asking someone of very limited academic ability to sit an exam ,which is either so low in standard that they can pass it and wave a piece of paper saying I am THICK AS ,or is set at a decent level in which case they fail abysmally and don't even have a piece of paper to wave ?

We still know they are as thick as mince ,so the paper wasn't even useful in that respect,and I prefer to see children leave school with a meaningful certification of excellence than everybody gets one and it means you can spell your own name.
Perhaps I have missed something ?Feel free.
47

Phil C,

14/06/2009 09:23:04
"Labour accuses SNP of betraying teachers"

Glass houses and stones?

The only people Labour haven't betrayed are failed tycoons and executives and themselves!
48

The Tin Man,

14/06/2009 09:26:10
#50 morris

We need proof that people are thick as mince! Anyway, I know you disagree, but sometimes people's performance does actually improve.
49

dunedin bully wee 1877,

14/06/2009 09:27:19
46 The Tin Man

I never actually caught what the “Jury Team” would have done to stimulate the Scottish economy.

But then again, neither did 99.4% of those who actually voted did either.
50

Bridged and tunnelled,

14/06/2009 09:32:29
17 & 32

Frank - the figure at the end is comparing a 2008 figure with a 2009 figure, so both relate to the current administration.

You're plain wrong that supply and demand for teachers has never been in balance since the 1970s. The OECD remarked a few years ago that Scotland was one of the few countries where the 2 were balanced, and arguably there were too few teachers 3-4 years ago.

51

The Tin Man,

14/06/2009 09:33:49
#53 bully

The economy would have flourished, because they are intrinsically better. You don't get it, do you? Only the most intelijunt people of the land voted for the greatest party, hence the small share of the vote, which undoubtedly did not include your's. :-P
52

Bridged and tunnelled,

14/06/2009 09:34:10
The basic problem here is that teaching is basically a controlled economy. The Government trains as many teachers as it thinks will be needed. So having 10% totally unemployed at the end of the school year ought to signal a reduction in teacher training numbers the following year. What they've actually done is increase numbers, not reduce them.
53

Willie Mor,

14/06/2009 09:34:59
# 14

I too have been reading the most recent updates about the tale of Jim Devine and the missing shelves paid for at taxpayer expense.

Seems from the Scotsman that they have finally turned up in a local pub cellar as opposed to Mr Devine's constituency office, or any of his houses.

The explanations from this guy just get more bizarre and more bizarre as he defends paying thousands of pounds to bogus VAT tradesmen in pubs and joiners who put shelving up in the most mysterious of places.

A bit like some of the other Labour chappies who have been buying and sharing furniture, whilst also moving it about from Scotland to London in a transit van.

But yes, this is how hard working and honest Labour MP's spend their time.

Van driving, meeting bogus tradesmen in pubs, paying thousands in cash to bogus tradesmen, getting shelves erected in places where they thought they were only to have someone say they were hundred of miles away in a pub, getting assistants to chaffeur one about but not passsing on the expenses.

And now, what of the fabled shelves shelves themselves now that they have been found in the cellar of a pub in Scotland?

Axh, tis a good thing Mr Devine is one of the honest politicians, and surprising that anyone could suspect him of having his snout in the trough.

No case to answer!

54

Bridged and tunnelled,

14/06/2009 09:35:54
42 - actually birth rates have been increasing for the last few years and most new teachers are trained to replace those leaving the profession - returning, resigning, moving outside Scotland etc.
55

The Tin Man,

14/06/2009 09:36:01
#53

Anyway, I am glad that you now understand that 'the economy' is run out of Strasbourg and Bruxelles.
56

morris,

edinburgh 14/06/2009 09:36:42
They were not allowed to sit the exam is almost always proof !If they wish to appeal against not being allowed to sit then maybe we could do that, and of course they can always sit the exam at night classes as many have done for many years.Im all in favour of the pursuit of excellence,but there is not much point in pursuing something unless you can run !
I accept that late developers exist ,in fact I knew a guy who went to Stirling University who by his own admission had been an average student up until he was around 14,but we are talking about the lowest level of academic achievers here,the vast majority of which are incapable of ever being anything else. What possible benefit a meaningless certificate has I have no idea Sorry.
57

Cadgers,

Perth 14/06/2009 09:37:56
"Labour accuses SNP of betraying teachers"

THIS from a party who's LABOUR LED Glasgow council is closing 4 primary schools? Talk aboot wantin butter and jam on yer jeely piece!

58

dunedin bully wee 1877,

14/06/2009 09:38:11
45 The Tin Man,

You obviously have greater experience and knowledge of “make-up” application than I do.

Would you recommend that I use more mascara on my eyebrows, or perhaps I am lacking in foundation cream?

Maybe I should dye my hair or my moustache?

Which shade of grey do you think would be appropriate?
59

For Scotlands Future,

Vote for the SNP 14/06/2009 09:47:01
So what has changed?? This happens every year. It happens with newly qualified doctors too.

I happened under Labour too, surprise, surprise.

I can see that Labour are desperately grasping at anything to try and turn into an SNP "expenses" scandal.

#57
Maybe he spends more time in the pub than he does his constituency office, so justifing his claims.
60

The Tin Man,

14/06/2009 09:49:49
#62 bully

Vaseline helps. I am sure the guy you voted for will be able to confirm that.
61

The Tin Man,

14/06/2009 09:51:22
#63 FSF

I hope he used a limo for the shelves.
62

,

14/06/2009 09:53:32
Comment Removed By Administrator
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63

dunedin bully wee 1877,

14/06/2009 10:00:29
64 The Tin Man

I have used “Vaseline “for the bumps and grazes on the weans knees.

Are you suggesting that you use it for some other purpose?
64

,

14/06/2009 10:01:51
Comment Removed By Administrator
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65

Bridged and tunnelled,

14/06/2009 10:05:28
63 - you think 10% of doctors are unemployed a year after they qualify? I don't think so!

The point is not that some teachers are unemployed, but that as many as 10% are at the end of the year.

66

The Busker in Exile,

Notts 14/06/2009 10:19:10
#50 & #60

Its called Social Engineering as well massaging the O/Higher & GCSE/A level figures to make them look better. As well as not trying to hurt the feelings of the less academic...social liberal nonesense.

Nulabour have for the last 5 years have tried to standerdise all qualifications to the NVQ standard. If you tell your local Jobcentre you have a Degree they will put that on thier computer system an NVQ level 5 no matter what degree you have. If someone becomes a fully qualified hairdresser that is an NVQ level 2 or 3...depending on what level has been achieved

The social engineering that is occuring is that NuLab liberals are trying to get away from distinguishing between Academic & non Academic subjects.

It makes them feel better
67

The Busker in Exile,

Notts 14/06/2009 10:24:41
Sorry for spelling mistakes & grammer, I'm trying to make brekkie
68

,

14/06/2009 10:25:13
Comment Removed By Administrator
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69

The Tin Man,

14/06/2009 10:28:32
#68 Quisling

I agree 100% with anything Martin O'Neill says, and in this instance he is even correct, anthough he should never have gone to Leeds United.

Labour, the Lib Dems, and the SNP, are responsible for a poor (although not atrocious) record on education.
70

The Tin Man,

14/06/2009 10:30:32
#72 24

I am subsidising people who live on Shetland, and Romania. When shall I be receiving my repayments?
71

Iain Mac,

14/06/2009 10:35:00
Labour introduced this system. Typical Labour hypocrisy. I don't know any teachers upset by the current SNP government.
72

alanh,

ek 14/06/2009 10:35:42
with the great PFI get rich quick schemes that have halved the number of secondary schools in my town no wonder that there are too many teachers for the posts that are vacant.
Add in Macavity's recession and there ain't a lot of spare cash for govt, local or national, to employ more teachers than is needed.

Perhaps the nu liebore sleaze and spin, north brittian dept, party members could suggest where we should employ these extra students and what they would cut to pay for them?

Could they also tell us what percentage of student teachers automatically walked into a teaching post as soon as they finished studying under the last administration?
73

Electric Hermit,

14/06/2009 10:42:30
69
Bridged and tunnelled

"ou think 10% of doctors are unemployed a year after they qualify? I don't think so!"

Junior medics’ recruitment fiasco set to hit front line - http://tiny.pl/3j7k

Junior doctors face imminent unemployment - http://tiny.pl/3j7k

74

frank mcbride,

lusitania 14/06/2009 11:16:36
#54, BaT.

The figures for 2008 & 2009 refer to the CURRENT Administration????????????????????

The vast bulk of teachers qualifying in these years were recruited, into training, were recruited under the NuLab/LD Administration between 2004 and 2006.

The fact is that teacher recruitment and job availability has be out of kilter since the early '70s.
There have been very few years of (near) balance.

Please stop being and apologist for NuLabour; 2/3 years of balance out of 40 is not a point in favour of Labour/NuLabour/Tory Administrations.
Also, the vast majority of current cohort of newly qualified teachers were recruited under the last NuLab/LD Administration; this is a fact NOT in doubt.
75

Bridged and tunnelled,

14/06/2009 11:19:45
77 - I said a year AFTER they qualify. I don't defend the system of posting junior doctors, but that equates to a probation year, not to full employment (though it's worth noting that the urls you post don't demonstrate 10% unemployment - they indicate severe difficulties in getting a postings policy to work. Anyway I don't defend that system - as I've indicated, it's just it's not comparable to the story on teacher numbers).
76

Bridged and tunnelled,

14/06/2009 11:26:35
78 - Frank, chill my friend. I'm being no one's apologist, but nor am I going to be browbeaten by anyone.

The teachers in question will have been mainly recruited into teacher training in 2007. So they will have started their courses before the SNP gained power. You're right.

However my complaint is not that those numbers exist, but that the numbers in training now and since have not been adjusted to reflect a (predictably) growing problem.

The fact is that teacher training numbers have increased over the last projections issued before the 207 election. Now you might well think that a good thing - reflecting an ambition to reduce class sizes (setting aside the separate issues there are about that).

The issue is that it has been clear for 18 months that the teacher employment anticipated was simply not going to be achieved. It was therefore political weakness or moral hypocrisy of the Government not to make due adjustment to future university intakes.
77

John S,

14/06/2009 11:44:12
Rhona Brankin- To add insult to injury the Scottish Government's website is still carrying adverts encouraging people to train as teachers.

Half of all teachers to leave in the next four years.
Official Scottish Government projections show that 25,000 of the country's 53,000 primary and secondary teachers will either reach retirement age by 2013, or leave for other reasons.
Figures released last summer showed 23,000 teachers in Scottish schools are aged 50 or over.Herald Jan 03 2009::http://tinyurl.com/9gwueb
78

Electric Hermit,

14/06/2009 11:48:10
79
Bridged and tunnelled

Gently with the squirming. You'll put your back out.

79

frank mcbride,

lusitania 14/06/2009 11:52:02
#80, BaT.

As I have said, the numbers have been out of kilter for 40 years.

The number of replacement teachers that will be required from 2011/2, onwards, is due to the large scale retirement of the great teacher expansion of the late 60s and 70s.

If you add to this the projected rising schools' population from 2012, you may appreciate why recruitment numbers have not been cut.
80

Mèths,

14/06/2009 11:57:45
Ha ha ha ha ha. I haven't read all the responses, but this from 2006.

"Hundreds of newly-qualified teachers have been unable to get full-time jobs in Scottish schools, latest figures show.

An official survey found that only 52% of 2588 teachers who finished their probationary year in 2006 secured a full-time permanent post, compared with 67% of the previous year's similar intake. Of the rest, 30% were on temporary contracts and 15% had supply work."

Ha ha ha ha ha.
81

Number 6,

Germany 14/06/2009 12:08:59
BETRAYAL. HORRIFYING. SHAMEFUL.

Hyslop said of Labour's comments: "They are conveniently forgetting that teacher numbers were higher in 2007 and 2008 under the SNP than in all but one year of the Labour/Liberal administration, while pupil-teacher ratios in Scotland are at a record low.

"The latest GTCS figures show 89 per cent of newly qualified teachers are employed in teaching – up 10.4 per cent since last autumn, and the percentage of post-probation teachers not in employment has fallen from 21 per cent to 10.6 per cent."

Classic hand wringing, unionista mock outrage at it's worst.
82

Number 6,

Germany 14/06/2009 12:12:46
Have you noticed that you never get the facts in an article here until the last paragraph?

Are they hoping the reader's attention span will only cover their quotations from wretched unionita puppets
before hearing from the SNP?.
83

Bridged and tunnelled,

14/06/2009 12:38:32
82 - in your dreams! Address the facts.

83 - Frank - but if the demand will exist in school year 2011/12, why have hundreds sitting around unemployed from 2009, more than 2 years before they are needed?

84 - but if you compare like with like, the 2006 figures are hugely better than now, so that is not the comparison to make (there are 3 different figures which have been quoted here - unemployment at the end of the probation year - unemployment in the autumn of the year after their probation - and unemployment at the end of the school year following their probation. The unemployment numbers will always decline for each student year, so there is only limited value in comparing these figures. The relevant comparison is between student years - how did 2005 graduates compare with 2006 etc.

The figures show things were getting worse from 2006 to 2007 already (2007 largely not the responsibility of the current Government). My point is that the Government has made a bad position a whole lot worse. And it could have been avoided - either by reducing the number of places in teacher training, or by making sure that Councils actually employed the teachers which had so expensively been trained at public expense.

In fact teacher training numbers were increased and the Councils were left to do their own thing (I think they called it a concordat, and described it as historic).

There is no wriggle there, and I'm not saying the Government have solely created the problem. But I am plainly saying they have made it worse, when they should have started to address it.
84

Observer,,

Glasgow 14/06/2009 13:05:39
87 You are making a mountain out of a molehill. Training a teacher is not like training a Police Officer there is no job guaranteed at the end of it. You are never going to reach a situation where the precise amount of graduates fit the precise amount of vacancies, and t'was ever thus. There are too many variables involved to guarantee training the right amount of teachers to fit the right amount of vacancies.

There is no evidence to suggest that the SNP are any worse than the previous administration in projecting demand/supply. And it is too soon to tell if they are going to be any better.
85

Scary Bear,

14/06/2009 13:18:28
If there are an average of 239 teachers applying for vacancies in North Lanarkshire, then there obviously isn't a great need for teachers in that area of Scotland.

What does Rhona Brankin suggest the solution is? Employ all 239 applicants for each job? If I recall correctly, Labour were also up for training huge numbers of graduates to be teachers.

One of the big problems is that government in this country is poor and reacts far too late to problems. The result of this, is that the solutions arrive far to late and are often not needed by the time they arrive.

This happened earlier with the IT conversion courses at university, which were 100% funded. The result was a massive uptake in the course, which later resulted in thousands of graduates from this course who couldn't find work.

Basically governance of most things in this country has been poor for as long as I can remember. Going by the general standard of MPs, MSPs and councillors, I can't see this changing anytime soon.
86

frank mcbride,

lusitania 14/06/2009 13:22:09
#87, BaT.

OK, we have agreed that this problem has historical roots.

Wouldn't you, also, agree that NuLabour's accusations are dissembling and naked political posturing.

If the retirement figures are correct,then the current recruitment levels will not match the the numbers leaving the profession; between 2011 and 2016, it is anticipated that 50%, that's right FIFTY PERCENT, of teachers will retire, and no account has been taken of the voluntary leavers.

All in all, over the next 6/7yrs. +/- 30 000 teachers will exit the system.

We are, currently training +/- 3000/yr.

As far as Government action goes, the SNP Administration has increased the LAs' education budgets and, in accordance with the democratic Concordat has allowed LAs to allocate these resources in the way that they, the LAs, believes to be in the best interests of their communities.

Perhaps you think that this is wrong, and believe that Central Government should dictate all spending.
87

Voldemort,

Edinburgh 14/06/2009 13:25:33
I always laugh out loud when I hear Labour accusing another party of 'wastage' , 'Corruption', or 'Betrayal' ....

Its a bit like Myra Hindley accusing Mother Theresa of Murder !
88

,

14/06/2009 13:46:18
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
89

mr broon,

Edinburgh 14/06/2009 13:47:03
Labour's Education spokeswoman, Rhona Brankin might be surprised to know that, as any teacher will tell you, each year hundreds of Scots teaching graduates for various reasons choose not to work in Scotland, and seek employment elsewhere in the UK, or emigrate.

Scots teaching graduates have never had any problems finding jobs elsewhere because, unlike the rest of the UK and elsewhere, the high standard of the Scottish BEd (Hons)degree is a passport to success!

Rhona Brankin is simply politicking, and also knows full well that since time immemorial Scotland has always produced more graduates per head of population than many other countries, and it cannot accommodate all their skills so many go elsewhere.

90

LEAL,

14/06/2009 14:09:28
No,actually.We all know Scottish teachers are genetically inferior to Irish and Danish and Norwegian ones.Thats why Scotland has to be governed from London,England.What other reason could there possibly be?
91

TWC,

exLabour 14/06/2009 14:12:56
The real shocker is that the Labour MSP thinks we can't remember that this was a bigger problem when Labour were in power.
The way they keep trying to make some case against the Nats to make up for the fact that they are not allowed to make policies for Scotland.
Like the Calman failure to allocate any Oil & Gas revenue to Holyrood, always what Westminster wants leaving David Cameron in charge of North sea revenues.
92

Joe Plaice,

The Nutmeg of Consolation 14/06/2009 14:47:01
Another factor to consider when looking at the training of students as teachers is that any reduction in recruits will have a knock-on effect on the universities where the training occurs. If we decide to cut the number of recruits as they are having difficulties finding work, fewer lecturers and ancillary staff will be required and the university will have a smaller faculty and the possibility of lower funding.
93

Jerry Springer,

14/06/2009 15:21:49
92 Col. Blimp IV**,14/06/2009 13:46:18
LOL
Scottish Unionist is getting a right going over by A Labour Chanter today.
==================================================

A right going over?

Primary 7 amateurish, infantile nonsense mate.

They even have his identity wrong, but don't tell them that.
94

It's me!,

14/06/2009 15:44:48
Don't you get fed up of Scottish labour's constant whinging? It's not as though they created jobs when they were in power. They just stole jobs from Edinburgh and moved them to Glasgow. But that is their mentality. What's yours in mine and what is mine is my own.
95

Linda,

Edinburgh 14/06/2009 16:22:05
Labour's negative politics is not working.

From to-day's Sunday Times
YOUGOV POLL SHOWS SNP SUPPORT SOARS

Sample Size: 1048
Fieldwork: 2nd - 4th June 2009

SNP 31% (up from 18% in 2005)
Labour 28% (down from 40% in 2005)
Conservative 17% (up from 16% in 2005)
Lib/Dem 16% (down from 23% in 2005)n
96

Mikey,

14/06/2009 16:43:47
#97,

Jerry Springer, Rufus doofus and any other name you care to mention; You really should stop renting out your brain to wannabe Labour troughers, unless of course you're one of them! In that case, you gave over your brain when you signed your wannabe English Labour membership card.

Anyway, as I've said to you before, get back behind your mother's skirt, yellowbelly. You're not fit to debate politics with adults.

Shoo!
97

Calum Crubag,

14/06/2009 18:00:10
#80 -true, plus it was Labour/LibDems who introduced the present 'MacCrone' system of teacher recruitment. They have short memories. We don't.

#99 - true, Labour say they 'listen' but their endless negative campaigning puts people off.
98

Observer,,

Glasgow 14/06/2009 19:21:35
97 Rufus I reckon that chancer who is faking the Col is the same moron who is doing the Labour chanter blog and did that Scottish onionist blog.

He always LOL's if you notice.

Best ignored in my opinion.
99

The End Is Nigh,

Highland 14/06/2009 19:40:33
#96 Joe,

So we train more teachers than we need because a reduction would cost jobs in university's?
Surly it would be better to sacrifice these surplus lecturers and thereby freeing up cash for more training in other areas where we have a shortfall.
100

Jimmy Le Pie,

14/06/2009 19:50:14
Just read am article in the Sunday Times. It's easy to see why Comrade Broon does not want an election.

"Labour is already haemorrhaging financial support at a time when it should be amassing an election war chest. It is now clear that Brown has failed to retain the wealthy backers so successfully wooed by Tony Blair. Brown’s leadership is a key factor in the decision of other tycoons neither to lend nor give cash to the party.

Another generous supporter, who would not be named, said he will not contribute again while Brown remains leader and that he should resign.

“Gordon is a political liability and I think it would be far better for the party if he stood down to give us a fighting chance at the election,” he said. “I will give no more money to Labour while he is leading it.”


So we're not alone in thinking Comrade Broon is a clown!

Just watch the manoeuvring to get state funding of political parties!!
101

The Col. of Monte Cristo,

14/06/2009 20:04:17
#102 Observer,

Is "A Labour Chanter" the "Blogger" who pinched my Moniker?

102

The Col. of Monte Cristo,

14/06/2009 20:12:23
George Foulkes is Labour Chanter, according to his profile at least...are they allowed to print lies on the internet?
103

Observer,,

Glasgow 14/06/2009 21:11:42
105 Looks like that to me Col. Who else would come on here and draw everyone's attention to it ?

Blogs just a cut and paste job anyway. Nothing original on it.
104

Brianwci,

14/06/2009 22:20:06
#57 Willie Mor says: "Seems from the Scotsman that they (Devine's shelves)have finally turned up in a local pub cellar."

Oh.....well that's alright then. Case closed.
105

Neal! Whit? Haud yer Whisht!!,

14/06/2009 22:28:37
Erm, just as an Academic Interest type thing.

You have, in Scotland, Lib Dem, Labour, Conservative and Scottish National .

Of what ilk is the SNP? Yellow, Blue or Red?

Of course the Nationalist smacks of Blue or darker . . .

Just an observation . . .
106

Brianwci,

14/06/2009 22:32:08
# 99 Linda, Edinburgh
Labour's negative politics is not working.

From to-day's Sunday Times
YOUGOV POLL SHOWS SNP SUPPORT SOARS

Sample Size: 1048
Fieldwork: 2nd - 4th June 2009

SNP 31% (up from 18% in 2005)
Labour 28% (down from 40% in 2005)
Conservative 17% (up from 16% in 2005)
Lib/Dem 16% (down from 23% in 2005)n


Lindaaaaaaaaaa, you stupid womaaan (to quote thingy from Allo Allo)

Don't you recognise a cunning plan when you see one????

On the surface London Labour may 'look' as if it's toiling, but in reality it is girding its loins for the big push in the General Election when it will sweep all before, it especially the SNP and the Tories....it says here, on page 2 of the London Labour Cunning Plan for 2010.
107

morris,

edinburgh 14/06/2009 23:24:32
104


Just watch the manoeuvring to get state funding of political parties!!

That is indeed a possibility as is some sudden conversion to some form of PR .The problem is they resist such measures as long as its advantageous to them but can change overnight and do so for expediency sake and sod the principle that they only yesterday embraced.
Again it merely emphasises that NONE of the Westmidden parties give a flying wotsit about Scotland, her people or her status .They care only about their mortgages paid by us via the pig trough.

STAND UNITED SCOTLAND AND CRUSH ALL WESTMINSTER PARTIES.
They will NEVER have your interests at heart.

John McLean said " I would never be a party to any organisation which sought to have influence within Scotland, whilst headquartered outwith her".
Wise words indeed!
It was true then and it is still true NOW !
108

morris,

edinburgh 14/06/2009 23:25:44
110 Sounds like a Baldrick Broon cunning plan to me !
109

Scotindy,

Los Angeles 15/06/2009 01:43:04
Roll on Referendum on INDEPENDENCE and watch with Glee the convoys on unionist MP'S FIRED by the electorate heading south to england for employment somewhere else. Spreading their BS to someone else in some foreign country, because it did not work here in SCOTLAND.....GOOD BYE LIEBOR AND GOOD RIDANSE..BRING IT ON INDEPENDENCE AT ANY COST...................

 

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