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Sex education 'failing' school pupils



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Published Date: 06 April 2008
SEX education in Scottish schools is "inadequate", raising fears that the soaring rates of teenage pregnancy and sexually transmitted disease are going unchecked.
An official report has criticised the quality of lessons in secondary schools because of lack of staff training and knowledge about which topics to teach children.

In some schools teaching is so poor that experts believe it is undermining the sex
education curriculum and failing to teach pupils the skills they need to have healthy relationships.

Last night, critics called for urgent improvements to tackle the nation's high rates of disease and teenage pregnancy, which are among the highest in the western world.

Three years after its launch, there are now questions about whether a £15m sexual health strategy is working.

But teachers say they are limited in what they can do because of fears over parents' objections that lessons are too explicit.

The research was carried out for the Scottish Government's health promotions agency, NHS Health Scotland, by Dr Edwin van Teijlingen from the department of public health at Aberdeen University. He examined hundreds of schools and interviewed key professionals with a knowledge of schools across the country.

Schools are free to choose their own sex education materials and programmes. Some use programmes devised by experts and others make the lessons up 'in house'. But the report, A Review of Sex and Relationships Education in Scottish Secondary Schools, found:

• Doubts about the "consistency and quality" of sex education because of "inadequate training of staff"

• Many schools uncertain which topics to include in sex education

• Schools failing to deal "competently" with gay, bisexual or transgender issues

• Many schools failing to consult outside experts such as school nurses

• Other schools "parachuting" in sexual health workers who have no knowledge of the pupils

• Concerns about the "dominant moral code" offered by Catholic schools.

Van Teijlingen said: "Most schools are only doing a half decent job in sex education.

"Schools do different things because they have great freedom, but they fill the sex education curriculum with whatever is available in their areas, and some areas don't have things available – 14% of teachers had objections to the lessons and we believe this is because they were not comfortable with them.

"We have doubts about the consistency and quality of the programmes as a result.

"Schools have lots of different things to do, and sex education is not their first priority, but we have problems in Scotland like teenage pregnancy so we need to do something about it."

Catholic schools, he added, were failing to address fully the issue of homosexuality. "They were uncomfortable about issues such as homosexuality, which means pupils are less likely to go to teachers. They parcelled sex education alongside marriage rather than sexual health and we think that will create problems for some pupils.

"They should also signpost pupils to family planning clinics or support groups for young gay people. Even if they don't agree with it they should let young people know these services are available."

Van Teijlingen has produced a raft of recommendations which have been sent to Public Health Minister Shona Robison. They include better support and more guidelines for schools and better teacher training.

But many teachers say the main problem is a fear over parents' objections.

Alan McKenzie, of the Scottish Secondary Teachers' Association, said: "To be candid, this is a sensitive area, particularly around issues such as homosexual relationships, and a lot of parents' views are fairly controversial. There is a reluctance to deliver sex education because of sensitivities and there is a degree of nervousness about parents' views.

"We have to be very sensitive to the wishes of parents. We have to tread warily."

The revelations will be alarming to the Scottish Government as it tries to reduce high rates of sexual disease and teenage pregnancy. The latest figures show 56.7 pregnancies a year per 1,000 women under 20 in Scotland.

Diagnoses of sexually transmitted infections are on the rise among men and women. Last year there were 17,926 cases of chlamydia and 1,290 cases of herpes. The country's sexual health strategy called on schools to support "consistently high quality of education about sex and relationships".

But Eleanor Conor, of the Scottish Parent Teacher Council, said the failure of schools to teach pupils properly would lead to more sexual health problems for youngsters.

"Poor sex education causes problems for children and has an impact on sexually transmitted diseases and unwanted pregnancies," she said.

"Ignorance is awful and it leads to young people putting themselves in danger.

"There are some examples of good sex education programmes out there and they need to be expanded into other schools using ideas such as sexual health drop-in clinics and free condoms."

A spokesman for the teaching union the Educational Institute of Scotland described sex education as "challenging".

He said: "Providing appropriate sex and relationship education, with due consideration to the age of pupils and the wishes of parents, is always an important and challenging issue for schools. Improved resources, including support for teachers both during their initial teacher education and also as part of their continuing professional development, is key to improving the provision available across the country."

A Catholic Church spokesman said the education programme used in their schools taught that homosexuality was intrinsic to the individual and homosexuals could not be discriminated against. "However, we do not condone homosexual behaviour and we would not send pupils to family planning clinics, abortion providers or other agencies."

Facts of life

• 14% of Scots teachers have 'objections' to sex education lessons.

• Scottish rates of STDs and teenage pregnancy are among the highest in the West. There are 56.7 pregnancies a year per 1,000 women under 20.

• 2007 saw 17,926 cases of chlamydia and 1,290 new cases of herpes.

An 'embarrassing and unnecessary' lesson

WHEN Sarah Robertson turned up for her sex education lesson earlier this year she and her schoolmates had a class they are unlikely to forget. Instead of a chat about the birds and the bees, her teacher produced a plastic model of an erect penis and handed out condoms to the 15-year-olds. First they were shown how to put the condoms on the model, then they had to perform the task themselves.

This kind of lesson, at a school in Edinburgh, is standard in many secondaries but Sarah and her fourth-year classmates found it not only embarrassing, but unnecessary. "Putting a condom on is not rocket science," she said. "I just don't think we needed to do that. The whole class was mortified and in hysterics."

An earlier lesson, which required the pupils to write down slang terms for sexual acts, proved equally riotous. "One boy just made words up for a joke, and the teacher didn't realise and was reading them out and asking us what they meant. I also felt that lesson was not particularly educational."

But if plastic penises are at one end of the spectrum in sex education, the content of lessons in Catholic and some rural schools is at the other. There, the prevailing ethos is that everyone will go on to get married and have families.

In a report commissioned for the Scottish Government, Dr Edwin van Teijlingen, from the Department of Public Health at Aberdeen University, concluded that he had "doubts" about the "consistency and quality of sex and relationship education programmes, as a result of inadequate training of staff and uncertainty about which topics should be included".

The quality of lessons across Scotland is patchy, he found. 14% of teachers were unhappy at delivering the subject and many schools did not make good use of outside expertise such as school nurses or family planning doctors.



The full article contains 1304 words and appears in Scotland On Sunday newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 12 April 2008 9:28 PM
  • Source: Scotland On Sunday
  • Location: Scotland
  • Related Topics: Sex education
 
1

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 06/04/2008 01:06:39
NO, NO, NO!..It is NOT! the,,

"Sex education 'failing' school pupils"

But more like our ..'Health Ministers' for giving the,

'Green Light', for our young to have sex!

As-in, injecting 13year old girls, with the jab for,..'HPV', on the ,

'False Pretences',

It will 'Stop them getting, Cervical Cancer!
2

Vincent-W,

06/04/2008 09:07:16
There is no mention of parental responsibility. Neither is there any exploration in the article of cultural or media influences.
3

Tweedmouth,

Coldstream 06/04/2008 10:01:26
After thirty years of liberal/ socialist sex education - with unelected quangos handing out consoms, the pill and sex advice to underage girls without parental consent what is the end result? Soaring rates of gonnorheoea, chlamydia, HIV and -underage pregnancies. The number of abortions carried out is still rising and the number of 'morning after pill' abortions is at an all time high. The people beheind this are not just amoral they are utterly immoral - and they are embedded in every level of government, local government and the herd of labour-quangos that run Scotland. The truth is that young people NEVER receive any MORAL GUIDANCE in our schools - and mostly not at home. The TV, magazines, radio and papers are FULL of people having sex, homosexual sex, three in a bed sex, drugged sex, underage sex, incestuous sex. What do you expect them to do??? Last night BBC showed the 'light comedy drama' Love Soup at 9pm. The 'comedy' story line involved a graphic portrayal of a woman committing suicide by jumping from a tower block - complete with body smashing into concrete. This was followed by a naked girl in the shower being 'raped' by a dog - complete with paws on her shoulders and her body being rocled back and forward by the dog having sex with her. It was then explained that the suicide victim had been having sex with her dog for many years. This was 'light comedy' on the BBC at 9pm in the evening. The genius who wrote this engaging story - one David Renwick.

Thirty years ago - sex was usually portrayed on the BBC as loving - and within a marriage or a committed relationship. Now it is violent, perverted - and apparently sex with dogs is OK. How much lower can we go? The Roman Circus? Woman being raped by donkeys and lions - hey that would be a good example to show our young people!
4

Dave from Barra ©,

Western Isles 06/04/2008 10:31:06
And there was me thinking that the schools had done an excellent job of sexual education. After all, the kids seem to know how to engage in sex, seem to be wise enough to know whether they are gay or not and are happy to "saddle up" whenever the moment allows.

What I don't think is being taught is the responsibilities of having sex. That is when the fear of God needs to be put in them. And yes, parents are just as, if not, more so responsible for that. But I suppose many kids are born to teenage random sex so the single mums would be hypocrits if they condemed it as they do quite well out of it (council house, benefits) etc etc.
5

joppa jock,

Huntingdon 06/04/2008 12:14:57
Those educationists who have forced 'sex education' upon youngsters have done them a huge disservice. Far from being a wonderful experience, shared by two adults in love, sex has become something dirty, resulting in a huge number of teenage pregnancies and outbreaks of venereal disease. These so-called 'educationists' are responsible for a huge downturn in social responsibilities and have contributed enormously to the benefit dependent society of today. Children always have and always will do their utmost to go beyond the boundary, but there are no longer any boundaries where sex is concerned, so much of repect that went along it has gone forever.
It is little wonder that the few who actually bother to get married find themselves in the divorce courts after a few years. Who could accept the fact that their partner may have have had sex with a large number of others without feeling concerned. Yes, I was brought up in a time when sex outside of marriage was almost unknown and when marriage was the norm, but most of my generation are still living with their husband or wife and many will celebrate golden and diamond weddings. How many of today's gneration will last ten years without changing partners? How many more children will be born and never know their father?This is a direct result of a seriously flawed sex education programme, now of course taught by those who have themselves been brought up in it and who know no better.
6

Tweedmouth,

Coldstream 06/04/2008 12:16:45
From Peter Hitchens Column today in Daily Mail
THE ABOLITION OF FATHERS

"in a 1990 Act, Parliament still dared to say that a child needed a father.

It declared: "A woman shall not be provided with treatment services unless account has been taken of the welfare of any child who may be born as a result of the treatment (including the need of that child for a father)."

But now the words 'a father' will be replaced by 'supportive parenting'. Next, what the law said as recently as 1990 will be unsayable in a public place. Opponents of this change will, as usual, be falsely smeared as bigots.

In fact, the change - never openly argued for by its supporters - is a revolutionary blow at the foundations of British society. It is driven by the thinking of a few Marxist weirdos, including Wilhelm Reich and Herbert Marcuse.

Their wild and twisted ideas were popular among students 40 years ago, when our present generation of MPs, broadcasters and civil servants were lazing on the lawns of their universities. Once before, these people let their cat out of the bag for a swift, frightening moment. Still to be found in the archives of The Times for February 1980 is a letter from Helen Brook, who spent much of her life obsessively pressing contraceptives first on unmarried women, then on schoolchildren. The triumph of her creepy beliefs has brought about a pandemic of unwanted pregnancies and abortions,the very things she claimed to be preventing.

She let her real aim be known when she wagged her finger warningly at those who dared get in her way, hissing: 'From birth till death it is now the privilege of the parental State to take major decisions - objective, unemotional, the State weighs up what is best for the child.' She knew power was on her side.

When, back in 1967, she offered contraceptive 'help' to under-age girls - behind the backs of their parents and their GPs - most normal people viewed her actions as shocking. In 1995 (under a Tory government, of co
7

Calum Crubag,

06/04/2008 12:27:01
Being 'educated' won't stop societies ills. I was taught many years ago that smoking killed you yet many of my peers went on to smoke. They knew, but chose otherwise. Same with unhealthy food, sex... whatever.

Question is, where is god to sort all this out? We need another crucifixion to save us.
8

Calum Crubag,

06/04/2008 12:28:09
#7- Excellent! Daily Mail will sort out this mess. I'm glad they let me know that i'm in danger. "Hurrah for the Fascists" as they said in the 30s.
9

Clonmines,

Glasgow 06/04/2008 12:45:55
Sex education in schools is inadequate, the analogy being that the plughole is too small for the amount of water being put into it! How on earth can the uk expect schools to deal with the society that pushes the barriers on a daily basis with an economy and media directing young people to sex for the purpose of selling and entertaining. Sex is being exploited in as many avenues as possible for money. The truth is that adult uk doesn't know about sex education beyond what can slot into what. Indeed anything referred to 'adult' entertainment is completely adolescent in nature and uk adults in general are not responding to this. What have we done? We've responded with accusations of 'nanny state' or 'as an adult I have a right to watch what I want', 'my sexual preference is my business and nobody elses'(and then spends time proclaiming it!) - to the church its the famous 'what do they know about sex, away and pray'. In short we reap what we sow. And as with all problems of social engineering its the schools that get the blame for not producing ideal citizens in a factory fashion. Ask any teacher regarding sex, obesity, physical & mental health, bullying and you'll find that most will say that society is undoing all that is being done in schools.

I suggest a new school approach. Adult uk - only for 'grown-ups' where adults have to take time out from overworking in their jobs and neglecting their kids to actually consider what life is about. Then perhaps we can take action and ignore the 'nanny state' insults and do something about the media intrusion of sex selling. We're already onto a toughie with the internet - so let's ignore at our peril.
10

Lanna,

06/04/2008 14:06:16
#1Charles, #4 Dave...how 'r ya doin?! :)

Excellent posts all!

it would seem the..'just use a condom, it's okay' ideology..isn't so okay!
11

Garry Otton,

Scottish Media Monitor com 06/04/2008 14:18:56
It took a generation for the Dutch to get their kids starting sex later and teenage pregnancy levels some NINE TIMES lower than Scotland's.

Despite countless free junkets handed out to MSPs to see how they did it, what chance REALLY do we have of getting religionists to butt out of sex education? Maybe one last free junket to Spain to see how Zapetero has dealt with the Catholic church might help? When all religionists do is trot out the same tired excuses that a liberal sex education is to blame when they are behind much of the conservative, lacklustre, 'just-say-no', straight-marriage-is-for everyone approach we are failing our kids with today.

With the SNP's Salmond promising more sectarian/'faith'/Islamist/Sunni/Sh'ia schools - call them what you will. What chance have we got? REALLY?
12

Robert,

Kirriemuir 06/04/2008 14:48:42
Schools should have concern about parents when it comes to sexual perversion. As children cannot be born to homosexuals there won't be too many of this type to be concerned about so heed should be taken to the views of hetrosexuals who, if my reckoning is not outdated, might just still be in the majority!

Could the numerous comment on the need for more skillful, practical, and adequate teaching methods possess any covert message like actually making lessons a physically practical subject?

Surely the rising incidence of pregnancies and sexually transmitted diseases could also be connected to the abolition of censorship of the media just as is happening in the field of criminality. What we are actually doing is telling maleable minds and the malajusted that it is okay to be antisocial or perverted.

It also says some schools use programmes devised by experts; what experts; and how does one become a sexual expert? Could this the same as being perverted? Then it makes reference to 'outside' experts such as school nurses? I wish I knew this when younger as I feel I could have enjoyed life better! Any nurses, meantime, at a loose end?

It makes referenece too to some 'higher authority' such as the Public Health Minister, Shona Robinson, causing one to wonder from where she got her expertise?

Presumably what is being suggested here is that better practical teaching methods leads to perfection. I am beginning to wish I was back at school!

Finally, why do we Scots, in Scotland, need to refer to our schools as being Scottish? Such need surely implies an underlying feeling of inadequacy but maybe our kilt swinging, sporran wearing, porridge waffling, whisky drinking, caber tossing, bagpipe blawing, nationalists may have a different view.

Ah, Rabbie, if we, indeed, could see ourselves as others see us!
13

DSF,

Livingston 06/04/2008 14:55:16
I think that the problem isn't with sex education - it's obvious that teenages know more than enough; I believe they just ignore it. There are no consequences.

I'm under the impression the police have already lowered the age of consent to 14 anyway. As the father of a pregnant 14 year old, we were told that no action would be taken against the 17-year old involved as the sex was 'consensual'. Armed with this knowledge, the boy has managed to get another girl (15) this time pregnant. Again, the police are doing nothing because it was 'consensual'. Obviously the age MUST have changed.

If there's no enforcing of the law, then there's no respect for the law. My idea of respect for the law has now totally changed; it obviously it doesn't apply to some, and the police, rather than being enforcers of the law, are making it up on the fly.

When you're driving, do you use speed limits as 'guidelines', or do you stick to them? What keeps people within them? The fear of a penalty, fine, or sentance. If you knew you could speed without any risk of that, then the roads would be much more dangerous. Likewise, if teenagers know that they can have underage sex without any consequences, then they will.

Except there are consequences; in my case my daugher will have her baby and all the support she needs from us, she's one of the lucky ones. Many others aren't that fortunate and do have to rely on society for support. In turn, this does increase the cost bourne by people through taxes for healthcare and housing.

Before anyone asks, this is the way I felt before my daughter became pregnant. I really naievly thought that the law was there to be enforced by the police, not made up by them.

Sorry - that was probably a bit preachy/ranty!
14

Garry Otton,

Scottish Media Monitor com 06/04/2008 15:18:21
#13 You not only talk with profound ignorance, you also had me hovering over the Report Unsuitable button for you grossly homophobic comments that do not do justice to your argument. There is no scientific evidence whatsoever to suggest homosexuality is a 'perversion'. I suppose most creatures in the animal kingdom are also 'p**** verts'? (I'm sorry. the 'p' word seems to coming back to me as censored. Nice start to an honest discussion about sexuality)

This thread is not for some old soldier to rant on about buggery, it is about the qualified research that suggests we are getting sex education wrong. We already know what works. We ought to be moving on now to implimenting it.
15

Garry Otton,

Scottish Media Monitor com 06/04/2008 15:19:06
But they let 'buggery' through. How odd.
16

Freethinker,

Penicuik 06/04/2008 15:40:13
Society is under great stress at the moment.

Consumerism and the sexualisation of our youth continues apace.

Politicians are scared of taking on the reactionary forces of organised religion - obsessed as they are with sex and guilt (you know who you are.) Get trained sexual-health educators into our schools from an early age - the Dutch method seems to work.

Many parents are totally useless at being parents. They were let down by their own, ill-prepared and feckless, parents and by society as a whole. There is tons of evidence to back this up but, in essence, it comes down to poverty - of education, opportunity, aspiration etc.

There are no easy answers to hugely complex and inter-connected problems. But surely the State has a significant role to play in trying to address these ills.

The problem with this is that anything the State does will be criticised by many of the posters above who will cry "Nanny State" and preach libertarianism. I recognise personal responsibility as much as the next person but for the State to do nothing in the face of such pressures would be a dereliction of duty.

Is there any Government today who has the cohones to take on capitalism, the bishops, mullahs, rabbis et al? I won't hold my breath.
17

John B Dick,

Rothesay 06/04/2008 15:43:22
14
Unwanted pregnancy is regrettable however it happens, and the law should be enforced or changed: one or the other.

There is only one thing in history which has stopped young women getting pregnant, even when the economic and social consequences were disasterous: malutrition.

Today's 14 year old is the previous generation's 16 year old in some respects, but not in others.

Unfortunately it's no help to your situation to say that you should have starved your daughter to stunt her development. There is a silver lining though. You may get to know your great-grandchildren.
18

jones, ken,

wormit 06/04/2008 16:06:43
The State will fiddle about but achieve nothing. All we can hope for is the inevitable cultural change. That will be a good time for any ruling government!

19

Freethinker,

Penicuik 06/04/2008 16:08:18
# 14

I applaud you for discussing this issue in a very personal way.

I, too, have a 14 year-old daughter. There is no way I would let her associate with a 17 year old boy - naturally bursting with hormones - although I suppose where there's a will ......

Sex has been discussed with her and her older sister from an early age - particularly the consequences, physical and psychological, of having sex at an early age. She also sees the seried ranks of teenage mothers - bored, skint, texting, sitting with their buggies in in certain Edinburgh shopping malls - being chatted up by slightly creepy and older security guards. Is there a father in sight - is there ****!

I'm not complacent - but I have taken a pro-active role in educating my children in this aspect of their development. I fear that some other parents don't - or can't (out of embarrassement) raise such issues with their offspring.

I wish you and your daughter the very best of luck.
20

Brian M,

Edinburgh 06/04/2008 16:35:53
who decided that we need sex education in schools.

sex 'education' has been been going on in schools for donkey's years now and what was its purpose? to reduce pregnancies and venereal disease? no success there.

maybe the report is right on catholic schools telling the children not to have sex before marriage, they must be to blame for all of the pregnacies and VD
21

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 06/04/2008 16:47:24
~11 Lanna,

And 'Hi' to you!, hope you are havin a good weekend,

Freethinker,Penicuik #@20,

I brought my daughters up in Penicuik, neither one of them or us had problems, with their 'Teenage years',

I recon its the Parents input on how to handle these years,

Come down to strong on them, and they will..'Just Rebel'!

Don't speak about sex, and they will think they are living, in some kinda,...'Religious sect'!

Being yourself, and letting your Children some freedoms and the place to find their own feet, is far better!

Afterall, Education Starts at Home!!!
22

Moscow,

Scotland 06/04/2008 16:51:15
The plastic penis schoolgirl tableau is sometimes filmed and the material is showing up in Japan, and eastern Europe along with Scottish school uniforms.

I would have thought anybody who googled 'schoolgirl' might have anticipated the problem. Then again, the SE has resolutely refused to ban sex offenders from schools so what can one expect.
23

Moscow,

06/04/2008 16:57:29
WHEN Sarah Robertson turned up for her sex education lesson earlier this year she and her schoolmates had a class they are unlikely to forget. Instead of a chat about the birds and the bees, her teacher produced a plastic model of an erect penis and handed out condoms to the 15-year-olds. First they were shown how to put the condoms on the model, then they had to perform the task themselves.

This kind of lesson, at a school in Edinburgh, is standard in many secondaries but Sarah and her fourth-year classmates found it not only embarrassing, but unnecessary. "Putting a condom on is not rocket science," she said. "I just don't think we needed to do that. The whole class was mortified and in hysterics."



No 'safe' male teacher is going to be within two miles of that happening.
24

fife runner,

06/04/2008 17:23:37
problem is many parents leave it to schools to educate their kids about sex. We have probably been lucky that our kids were able to discuss this topic openly with us.

One big problem is the whole country has been hung up on what you do and feels right to you is ok. It leads to no boundaries as we all then make our own. But do not talk about boundaries as the pc brigade will come down like a ton of bricks.
25

fife runner,

06/04/2008 17:28:28
read the topic covered in this section on cervical cancer jabs. Give girls the jab before they get sexually active! Jabs, morning after pills, free condoms ( which are not safe but safer) and it seems we have given up. My wife teaches and was taken aback at how many of her pupils are sexually active. One boy actually said he wished he were still a virgin. Are we letting our kids down by giving in.
26

Brian M,

Edinburgh 06/04/2008 17:31:12
could be that so-called sex education has encouraged schoolchildren to have sex before they would have
27

Garry Otton,

Scottish Media Monitor com 06/04/2008 17:40:13
Same old, same old... Procrastinating on all this too much sex nonsense. They have 'too much sex' in the Dutch media too. How come they still get it so right? And WHY won't Scots learn from them? WE ARE LETTING OUR KIDS DOWN! Schools are for disseminating knowledge. Let's do it.
28

jones, ken,

wormit 06/04/2008 17:44:00
Our children learn about sex from the internet. Parents and can only guide, not compete.
29

Robert,

Kirriemuir 06/04/2008 17:55:07
#15 Whoever said there was no scientific evidence to suggest that homosexuality is unnatural? Try reading the actual notes written by Dr Francis M Pottenger on his 10 year study into cats and their diet but do not do so if it is likely to upset you or 'burst your bubble'! I am certainly not homophobic as I do not bear any antipathy towards those who suffer this indisposition; I simply have empathy which surely shows consideration but I do object to anything unnatural being touted otherwise, and especially in public educational establishments. I take it that your flammatory comment is merely a reflection of your own inner fears so being compassionate I will not press the 'unsuitable' button which will allow you the fredom to comment. If you desire to 'push the button' on mine, then be my guest!
30

Garry Otton,

Scottish Media Monitor com 06/04/2008 18:33:22
You patronising old git. I'm not 'suffering' from anything.
31

fife runner,

06/04/2008 19:39:12
why do schools have to teach this. what about parental responsibilty? Oh, I forgot many are not responsible now anyway.
32

Brian M,

Edinburgh 06/04/2008 19:56:34
I think that so-called sex education has been a complete failure given that the rate of pregnancies and venereal diseases are at their highest ever.

And how much has been spent on it in various guises down the years.

Another 'front line service' which should be ditched and reduce the council tax yet again.
33

Vincent-W,

06/04/2008 22:03:27
There is a high probability that kids learn most from their parents.

Therefore if there parents have an irresponsible attitude to life, health, sex, morals etc the chances are that the children will too.

Schools cannot take full responsibility for how children and young adults behave, most of the 'damage' is done pre school anyway.

One of my older sons was disgusted with his schools approach because, in his words not mine, "there was no moral context all they did is talk about condoms", now he is a reasonably bright kid whose main interest in life is statistics and mathematics he knows that the 'condom' approach is doomed.

The ABC approach is much more effective.

'A bstain
B e faithful
C ondomise'

That is, promote abstinance and faithfulness and only if you find it totally impossible to manage these should condoms be used. But please bear in mind that condoms are only 90 - 95% effective in stopping infections.

Would you happily take up skydiving if one time in ten or twenty your 'chute was going to fail? Because that's what promoting condoms says!!!!
34

,

06/04/2008 22:46:45
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
35

Vincent-W,

06/04/2008 22:55:58
Digory - damned good point!
36

Freethinker,

Penicuik 07/04/2008 07:47:11
Digory - So what do we do?

Exhorting lassies to keep their legs shut and laddies to deny their hormones smacks of King Canute. It simply does not work!

The policies of your beloved Catholic Church (and the other religious fundies) have been disastrous - as it has with so many other aspects of sexual health. Why won't you accept that the Dutch model works - because, of course, it runs contray to the RC church's philosophy which essentially says that sex should be for procreation only. With HIV and AIDS and other sexually transmitted disease rife and the world population estimated to rise from 6 to 9 billion the RC church certainly has a lot to answer for.

Vincent - do you work in the Scottish Catholic Media Office perchance? lol
37

Vincent-W,

07/04/2008 09:03:20
Freethinker - is that meant to be a putdown?

Rid yourself of your ignorant and antediluvian prejudices and look at the evidence. Countries which relying heavily on prophylactics to stem HIVAIDS have seen a rise in problems.

The real issue for Scotland is the culture of 'do what you want'.

The fact is that if you have an STD and use condom there is still a 5% chance of infecting your partner. Now I'm sorry but you don't have to be a Churchgoer or Humanist to realise that sooner or later you will stand a very high probaility of infecting or get infected. (if you had sex once a week with an infected partner then by the end of the year there would be a 93% chance of you both being infected). In my book that counts as a despicable thing to do to a loved one. Yet we are telling our kids condoms = safe sex. The reality is that they are slightly safer but not as safe as staying faithful and the only 100% surefire way is abstinance. (btw - I don't think the RC press office would approve that view)
38

Calum Crubag,

07/04/2008 13:43:38
#38 Vincent... - if your church can't stop 'celibate' priests running off with women and abusing children then how are you gonna stop ordinary people having sex? Best to give them condoms. Why are the churches so bothered about other people's sex lives anyway? If they have faith in 'god' then surely 'he' is powerful enough to sort them out. No?
39

Calum Crubag,

07/04/2008 13:45:08
The catholic church have a shameful record on human rights. From burning witches and 'heretics' to supporting Hitler and covering up cases of child abuse. Why should we listen to them on matters of sexual health?
40

Calum Crubag,

07/04/2008 13:46:09
And, the best Catholic quote of all, 'Rape is ok if it ends up in producing a child'. What a bunch of freaks.
41

Vincent-W,

07/04/2008 14:29:32
Crab - what on earth are you on about man?

The ABC approach is not Church policy it does however seem to be an effective method.

Get back on topic and stop your ignorant, disrespectful and bigoted anti church bile.
42

Vincent-W,

07/04/2008 14:32:14
Crab - check out the posts I didn't even bring up the Church in this thread.

You need serious help!
43

Calum Crubag,

08/04/2008 09:48:43
Who cares? The article brings up the Catholic Church and their 'discomfort' teaching about homosexuality. Matters sexual and close to the church's heart, we all know that. And those 'celibate' men know a lot of the subject.

Anti-church... well you are free to practise what you want. But why should your adopted views carry any more relevence or political clout than beliefs in fairies?
44

Vincent-W,

08/04/2008 15:21:43
Crab by name, crab by nature - shuffling sideways now.

For everyone's sake turn off you blind bigotry for one moment (if you can - ha ha) and judge an idea by merit not source.

In any case can't you read English? - the ABC approach has nothing to do with the object of your rabid, intolerant and ignorant hatred.
45

Calum Crubag,

08/04/2008 22:15:15
Vincent-W - stop press. Check out story here saying that 'god' is just a particle in space. Bad news eh?

As to bigotry, i'm no more/less bigoted towards Catholics as i am towards the buffoons and thugs of the Orange Order or maniacal Muslims. Catholicism is just as ludicrous as the pagan worship most of it stems from.
46

Calum Crubag,

08/04/2008 22:16:12
Hey vincent! You said 'crab'!! Nach math a rinn thu. Piseach a' tighinn air do chuid Ghaidhlig.
47

Vincent-W,

08/04/2008 23:26:19
Dear Calum Crubag,

Please stay on topic!

Last week I posted the ABC approach and you went off on your rant, and ditto this week - have you read about it? Do you understand it? Have you anything constructive to say?

I would really appreciate a translation of #47 please.
48

,

11/04/2008 22:13:21
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
49

,

12/04/2008 21:59:32
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
50

Vincent-W,

12/04/2008 22:43:43
Digory - you are wasting your time - if you scroll back you will see that there's nothing constructive coming from these two sources. They are reactionary cynics. Some might say banal WUMs.

 

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Should the morning-after pill be made available in schools?
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