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Salmond faces first SNP split on future of Scottish Water



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Published Date: 22 February 2008
ALEX Salmond was last night facing the first split in the SNP ranks since taking office, with ministers and MSPs at odds over the possible mutualisation of Scottish Water.
The SNP has always been strongly against the mutualisation of Scottish Water, which would see the authority become semi-detached from government, allowing it to borrow money from the private sector.

The Nationalists felt this would be a stepping
stone to privatisation, so have traditionally opposed the idea, even though it could free up £180 million a year for the Scottish Government to spend elsewhere.

But now the party appears split on the issue, with the First Minister's official spokesman stating that ministers had an "open mind".

"We have an open mind about alternative public-sector models, and we are keeping that under review," he said. "Mutualisation is one possible model."

The spokesman made that comment just after Stewart Stevenson, the minister who is responsible for Scottish Water, told MSPs he was happy to review the status of the authority, but he added: "I'm not intending that we head towards mutualisation."

With two different messages coming out of the Scottish Government, there was total confusion at Holyrood yesterday over the SNP's attitude towards the matter.

Even Mr Salmond, when pressed on the subject at First Minister's Questions, failed to say whether or not he was in favour of mutualisation.

The First Minister said there were reasons why the SNP was sceptical about mutualisation, but he also raised the prospect of some kind of change in the next spending round, after 2011.

It is understood that both Mr Salmond and John Swinney, the finance secretary, do see the benefits of mutualisation because it would give them more money to spend on their priorities. But they do not want to go anywhere near privatisation and would only countenance mutualisation if it maintained Scottish Water's status in the public sector.

Senior SNP sources have also raised the possibility of mutualisation being included in the party's manifesto for the 2011 Holyrood elections.

But against this is the traditional, left-wing view, held by many SNP back-benchers, who are determined to see Scottish Water remain wholly in the public sector as an arm of the Scottish Government.

The First Minister is trying to juggle these two contradictory approaches, which is why there appeared to be so much confusion at the heart of government yesterday.





The full article contains 409 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 21 February 2008 9:13 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Scottish Water
 
1

Nikostratos,

22/02/2008 00:13:54
mutualisation is the name of the game privatisation is not the same.....As the old song goes............What a load of snp tosh...............My bet is the private sector will win.....it's were Alex's heart now resides...........
2

Nikostratos,

22/02/2008 00:21:21
who are the snps traditional left-wingers names please anyone...........They all seem a bit nu-labour to me
3

 Ayrshire Scot™,

22/02/2008 00:25:10
1. Yes, was it not Labour who came up with the idea?
4

Sanny,

22/02/2008 00:30:07
1 Nikostratos
Your trying to twist the facts again. There is a difference of opinion within the SNP ranks on the best approach, nonetheless they are as one in their opposition to privatisation. This seems to be a healthy debate; unlike the Labour Party where the orders are handed down from above and the voting fodder are whipped into voting as ordered.

If it comes to a vote I wonder if the Labourites will be instructed to vote for mutualisation, privatisation or status quo. As a socialist party they should be duty bound to support state ownership but will they ignore their principles to score a point against the SNP. Heaven forfend they should act in the interest of their electorate.

5

Nikostratos,

22/02/2008 00:37:10
#5 sanny

Is not Alex your leader who hands down his orders from on high.

"Heaven forfend they should act in the interest of their electorate."

Roman auction anyone
6

Senga Jean,

22/02/2008 00:43:33
Golly gosh the SNP is a democratic party. With Scottish Water I have a simplistic approach. It feels like we are the wettest point on the planet AND I WILL NOT HAVE THIS MISFORTUNE RAIN ON MY PARADE. I agree with whatever the SNP Government agree to do because I trust their judgement
7

Jimmy the Pie,

22/02/2008 00:48:27
FMQ's are becoming 'must see tele'. Watching Alex wipe the floor with Wendy and her poodle Nicol is worth the license fee alone.
Keep up the good work.
8

Roberta Burns,

22/02/2008 00:48:34
4# What principles do nu labour have left to ignore? They will follow their noses straight the trough, wherever it is.
9

An Beal Bacht,

22/02/2008 01:06:58
Hands off our water!
10

Jock Politicaljunkie,

Glasgow 22/02/2008 01:13:10
What split??

There is not even a split between the SNP and Scottish Labour on this.

Having an "open mind" and keeping something "under review" = kicking it into the long grass. The status quo wins. The favoured position of BOTH the SNP and Scottish Labour. That they had a debate on the subject is a sign of the democracy that is Holyrood, but the long grass still won.

I agree with this position. Public ownership is the ONLY solution for the ownership of our water. With the possibility of increasing problems with water supply around the world caused by global warming, water could even become our NEW OIL. Tanker of water anyone?? I've heard it said that there is more water in Loch Ness alone than in every single river and lake in the whole of England and Wales. Business cannot be allowed to get their hands on this asset.
11

karinxx,

22/02/2008 01:14:32
the tories tried to privatise scottihs water

they failed and are now out of office

labour toyed with the idea
they are now out of office

the snp are thinking about allowing mutualisation

dont even think about it boys and girls of the snp.

its our water and enough of it rains on our heads every day without us being charged for it.

be warned leave it alone.
12

Kipling,

22/02/2008 01:17:52
Loch Ness belongs to Nessie! Leave it alone!
13

Kipling,

22/02/2008 01:19:19
karinxx, we must be jinxed. Nessie is speaking through us!
14

Jock Politicaljunkie,

Glasgow 22/02/2008 01:22:47
Nessie votes SNP!!
15

subrosa,

22/02/2008 01:33:08
Stewart Stevenson on Newsnight Scotland said they have no intention of moving Scottish Water out of government hands as it works. When the chap from Welsh Water said his bit it didn't help the cause for mutualisation in the least.

So rather a non-story, more another good move by the SNP. As Mr Stevenson said everything in government is regularly reviewed so he has no problem with a review which he knows will show Scottish Water to be working just fine and dandy.
16

BrianHill,

Edinburgh 22/02/2008 01:49:11
I would hope their would be differences of opinion on all manner of policies in the SNP. I dread to think of a bunch of automatons raising their collective arm as one behind their leader.

As for reviewing long held policies. The world is changing faster than any time in its entire history. It makes sense to review long held beliefs. Holyrood itself is the result of a long consultative review of the new politics brought about by SNP successes.

The way we finance our schools and other public buildings, perfectly acceptable for years is now about to be changed to suit changing times.

Thus with the water. The current situation is working well but there may be a better way within the framework of Holyrood, equally there may not. It makes sense to at least have a look at it.

Surely this ability to look with new eyes at everything is the success of this SNP Government. Prime Minister Salmond didn't win every political accolade going in 2007 by being an old conservative, stick in the mud
(not you Annabel dear).

So Scotsman let's not make a mountain out of a molehill
17

An Beal Bacht,

22/02/2008 02:16:46
How about mutualising fishing rights?
18

langtonian,

scotus 22/02/2008 02:36:56
#6 Senga Jean

The last sentence of your comment-"i agree with whatever the SNP executive agree"---------

one can assume therefor you approve First Minister Alex Salmond "showboating" with his friends Rev Ian Paisley and Martin Mcguiness within the environs of Holyrood.

On the basis that one is judged by the company one keeps, yourgoodself, by your own declared unswerving loyalty to the SNP.approve by association the link between these two renegade NI political pariahs and the SNP(TT).
19

Richardinho,

22/02/2008 02:39:47
As I understand, the privatisation of water down in England has actually been one of the more successful privatisations.
I wouldn't dismiss it out of hand.
20

Boggle fey the Bog,

22/02/2008 03:28:33
#19 Richardinho
"As I understand, the privatisation of water down in England has actually been one of the more successful privatisations."

In what way?

a) In that a previously public owned enterprise, that was making money and keeping water, drainage and sewerage rates to the consumer under control, and re-investing any profits, that were left over, into the infrastructure, so as to maintain that standard of supply and evacuation, was wrested from public ownership and put in the hands of venture capitalists and foreign entities, to enable them to remove those profits outwith the realm at no benefit to the previous owners or their customers.

or

b) Selling of the public water companies gave the government a little more money to cut 'taxes', but increased by four fold the amount of money that the consumer had to pay for a diminishing and lacklustre service, that in London alone is seeing billions of gallons (not litres!!!) of drinking water leaking out of the Victorian infrastructure, that was being renewed and replaced by the Water Authority prior to 'Privatisation', but since 'Privatisation' little or no work has been done, on said infrastructure, and in fact has lead 'Water Companies' to be fined by 'OffWat' for not meeting their obligations.!!!

So yeah I suppose if you bought shares at the original offer price, and made 10 times the money, even after CGT it would be a 'successful privatisation'.

Just hope the next time you turn on the fawcett it's water and not excrement that comes out, cos' that's what happened with the English 'Privatisation'.
21

An Beal Bacht,

22/02/2008 04:02:59
19 - Richardinho, 22/02/2008 02:39:47

You havin a laugh?
22

An Beal Bacht,

22/02/2008 04:06:42
20 - Boggle fey the Bog, 22/02/2008 03:28:33

I read 19 and just had to respond immediately. The I read your post - you nailed it - well done!
23

langtonian,

scotus 22/02/2008 05:07:03
The fact that at some period of time in distant future taps will be turned on and dust will be the only product to appear,then try making a cup of tea out of that.

Now is the time to revert to wartime measure when a six inch plimsoll style line was placed on the bath and that was ones ration.

Time now to consider putting some form of limiter on all the multifariouse shower/bathing equipmentthat is dereguer in all new house build.
Has to come to a stage where it either or bath/shower and only one per dwelling place.
That will not I fear go down to well with the house plumbing merchants,however long term that will be the choice.
24

subrosa,

22/02/2008 05:33:56
We're a' doomed then langtonian? Or else we'll all get diseases associated with bad hygiene? Aye, we're a' doomed.
25

An Beal Bacht,

22/02/2008 05:37:55
Kirkcaldy - yer losin it. Come back to the light Kirkcaldy!!!
26

Royster,

22/02/2008 06:03:34
#6. I agree with everything the SNP does because I am a mindless sheep.
27

,

22/02/2008 06:34:50
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28

Richard Taylor,

Aberdeen 22/02/2008 07:24:05
Oh dear, unionist numpties still in denial I see.
29

,

22/02/2008 07:31:42
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30

,

22/02/2008 07:40:19
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31

Auld Twa,

Edinburgh 22/02/2008 07:55:47
Water privatisation in England was done for a mixture of Tory dogma and Gordon Broon's need to get spending under control ? by moving stuff off the books.
It was not done for the benefit of users and let us hope that it never happens in Scotland. It is bad enough that multinationals sell our gas is cheaply to their friends on the continent when demand is low, it is stored there and bought back at a higher price when demand is high. Profits for everybody but the user due to deliberate lack of investment in storage facilities her. Very much in the interest of the suppliers and paid for by captive customers in this country.
32

W Smith,

Middle East 22/02/2008 07:57:17
So the 'business friendly' SNP are against privatisation then eh?

Considering Salmond demands quality in his choice of car (Lexus - division of Toyota) and his left wing mate George Galloway drives an S-Class Mercedes (Daimler Chrysler) funny how the private sector is demonised by the Salmond-istas.

How many left wingers in Scotland were driving Ladas in the '70s and '80s?

They supported communism but didn't want to drive communist made cars - not suprised.

If the Soviet Union is anything to go by then nationalisation should be avoided like the plague.

Privatise Scottish Water and keep the dolts in Holyrood as far away as possible.
33

Liberal for life,

Dunblane 22/02/2008 08:21:56
Go for it Alex? Yet another fine mess they are about to get us into!
34

donald,

glasgow 22/02/2008 08:23:34
This has to be a Hamish McFlannel byline.
35

Scotland to prosper...,

22/02/2008 08:25:30
This is a story made out of thin air. Can someone explain to me the difference between "keeping it under review" and "having an open mind"?

To me, this suggests the SAME THING worded differently. God forbid a political party should be willing to approach an issue with logic and common sense.

The desperate bumff posted by some on this website is laughable. And as for this issue of the First Minister and this curry/car story, is that really considered as landing an important political punch? Harldy "cash for honours!"
36

frank mcbride,

lusitania 22/02/2008 08:33:47
Most history books tell us that we got rid of PRIVATEERS in the 17C but, after reading W.Smith's comments, one has to wonder.

In keeping with the Unionist Alliance policy of "selling the family silver", we now have an attempt to move Scotland's water into Private hands. Remember Thatcher and NuLabour; every public asset is for sale.

Especially remember Thatcher who managed to sell the MUTUALISED TSB, even though it was not even owned by the Government.

WATER IS FOR LIFE. NOT FOR PROFIT!!!!
37

Dane Bramage SNP Insider,

SNP HQ 22/02/2008 09:39:02
langtonian # 18

I hope Martin McGuinness is not led astray by those more experienced criminals, Paisley and Salmond.
38

Queen D,

Glasgow 22/02/2008 09:49:32
I see no split, Isee something which will be analysed and talked through.
And that is what I expect ALL parties to do.
I am sick and tired of the GET THE SNP AT ALL COSTS BRIGADE, be they politicians or media.
Scotland VOTED, the PEOPLE spoke.
NOW GET ON WITH IT!
39

langtonian,

scotus 22/02/2008 09:53:18
#24 Subrosa
"Doomed ma laddie aye-aye we are all doomed"-shades of dad's army spirtually hingin aboot us aw. "Doomed were aw Doomed"
#25ABB
Just facing the facts-or maybe i dinae like aw this windy weather.
#30 Jimmy the pie,
You stick intae they pies of yours,if you eat enough of them you'll maybe see the glimmer of light at the end of the tunnell that indicates 2011 to be anus-horabalitis of the SNP.
40

Miss H,

22/02/2008 10:04:28
1 Niko - you haven't kept up with this story have you?

It is the Labour/Tory/Lib Dem alliance that is trying to bounce the SNP Government into mutualisation.

I am quite certain that the SNP will not go down that road for one simple reason - it would be massively unpopular. Call me a cynic but I do not think the current government is interested in taking unpopular decisions.

However I don't think they are under any obligation to prevent other parties from exposing themselves wanting to privatise our water. Give em enough rope ..
41

Miss H,

22/02/2008 10:09:31
4 Sanny - there is actually no difference in approach. There is consensus that water must remain in public ownership. There is also consensus that Scottish Water as it is currentlt constituted is pretty rubbish. So change is on the cards but the SNP will definitely not support taking water out of public ownership although we may encourage the other parties to make those arguments. Whatever is proposed however would have to go to a public consultation and I think we can be pretty sure what the result of that would be!
42

langtonian,

scotus 22/02/2008 10:14:38
#38Queen D.

Temper Temper ! reminder 70% of voting public did NOT repeat Not vote for the SNP.

A straw in the wind from yesterday's "medja"
The amount of cash borrowed by the SNP has topped a million for the first time. Nationalists increased by £225,000 to £1.048,343 between 0ctober and December last year.The party received donationsof £144,000 during the same period compared with £623,000 during the prior three months that covered May's election.

No indication there then that avid SNP supporters are prepared to dig deep into their purses or pockets to maintain their finnancial clout to enable to repeat being the largest investors in reaching a one seat majority.
43

G,

Bridgefoot 22/02/2008 10:23:09
"Surely this ability to look with new eyes at everything is the success of this SNP Government. Prime Minister Salmond didn't win every political accolade going in 2007 by being an old conservative, stick in the mud
(not you Annabel dear).

So Scotsman let's not make a mountain out of a molehill"
No Alex got the awards because he is a political chaemelon, willing to do anything to further the aims of his party....as for mountain and molehill - Alex is large but even I would not compare him to a pile of soil.....
44

Queen D,

Glasgow 22/02/2008 10:31:55
Langtonian. I don't care how many voted for or against the SNP.
My point is that every useless pillock at Holyrood was voted in to represent their constituents and not just indulge in SNP bashing.
They should be quite capable of consensus and not just 'party line' politics.
But I suppose it takes a modicum of intelligence to operate in that manner.
As far as I am concerned the only opposition that is credible is that of Ms Goldie.
She states her case well, not that I agree that water should be in private hands, with humour and intelligence
The same cannot be said for either the Labour party or their toadies.
45

The Tin Man,

Over the Rainbow 22/02/2008 10:32:30
#32

I quite like Lada Niva's.
46

Mcsnagpile,

22/02/2008 10:49:12
Changes of Scottish ownership status of any public utilities should be by public referendum.
Mutualisation to privatisation?? Scottish Widows, et al.
There are a number of bad boys out there. Bring back the Birtch.
What did Shylock think of private Debt??
47

morris,

edinburgh 22/02/2008 10:54:07
There can be no more natural public ownership than water. We are made of it!
The notion that anyone could"own" the rain is straight out of the lunatic asylum.
Its such a basic commodity essential to all life that it can ONLY EVER BE in public ownership.
The SNP would be well advised to make it clear neither mutual or private ownership is even a possibility,and their position of ONLY favouring public ownership has not been WATERED DOWN!
If they don't, expect returned memberships and a serious reduction in the polling intentions of the people.

THIS IS NOT ON!
If there is even the slightest dilution of the current position, it may be the SNPs last!

LEAVE WATER ALONE. If you want to sharpen up the management and their practises.okay,but it stays in PUBLIC HANDS,UNDILUTED in any way!
48

Methalions,

22/02/2008 11:00:41
27
Ayrshire Scöt™,
22/02/2008 06:34:50
"Ha Ha Royster its brilliant isn't it?

Posting #6 sums up 90% of the Nats on here. It seems they are unable to think for themselves."

But you can't even think of your own moniker. How long has it been now?
49

Ard Righ,

The Rock Of Edinburgh 22/02/2008 11:02:19
1,47

Observe the baddly maintained and managed Rail system, the badly maintained and managed Mail system, the huge scams surrounding the PFI contracts.

50

Methalions,

22/02/2008 11:03:24
A note to Laboristas in case you are still confused about this issue...

"Both Labour and the SNP yesterday voted for a review of its current public ownership, and consideration of the company becoming a customer-owned mutual."

Strange bedfellows.
51

Ard Righ,

The Rock Of Edinburgh 22/02/2008 11:09:06
Mutualisation ? The dictionary term - fine.
The reality?

Public government control of our resources.

When decentralisation occurs, via independence, the big parasite London will not be sooking us dry, allowing more professional management and defence of our own resources.
Infrastructure must be publicly managed - it is for the people, by the people.

If management of water becomes a business you have no consistency, just ruthless business, hell bent on cutting corners with sights on profit margins rather than delivering the best and most pure water engineering can facilitate.
52

Jackie Priest,

22/02/2008 11:31:44
It's amazing to think that as the unionist parties join forces to consolidate their strength, it's the SNP who get stronger.

53

,

22/02/2008 11:37:19
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54

kimba,

22/02/2008 12:01:56
55. YOU REALLY ARE FULL OF BILE,I'M NOT SCOTTISH EITHER BUT BET I KNOW MORE ABOUT SCOTLAND THAN YOU DO!
55

Methalions,

22/02/2008 12:06:46
Good afternoon kimba. How are things?
56

Resolutions,

22/02/2008 12:08:03
Royster - who appears to have awakened from hibernisation, is insulting sheep!

Ayrshire Scot and others reveal 'their' version of democracy - DO WHAT IS ORDERED FROM ON HIGH

Others try to work out how best to move forward with Scottish Water for the benefit of the Scottish users and not the greedy shareholders.

That means all ideas which attempt to meet the criteria are welcome.

Is that not democracy at work?
57

Nikostratos,

22/02/2008 12:09:19
#30 Jimmy the Pie

"Do you sad people like, Royster, AM2, Ayrshireprat and Nicohalfwit to name but a few, ever think you will get over the SNP being in government??"

Dear Jimmy I am surprised an old friend such as you would stoop to insulting me(Nicohalfwit). But I shall answer your question..........The snp in government is less important to me than Leaving the United Kingdom. My belief is if Independence were (most unlikely) achieved the snp would implode and from the ashes phoenix like the new Right wing free market 'red in tooth and claw' snp emerges

And I don't fancy that either

#40 miss h

no i was tired..zzzzzzzzzzzzz
58

,

22/02/2008 12:11:35
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59

kimba,

22/02/2008 12:12:28
Good afternoon meths,not bad weather is awful,seems nicola sturgeon is on a collision course with GP's
60

Alex, Young Laird d' Drumchapel,

Madrid 22/02/2008 12:13:37
Old Hamish at it again eh.

"But now the party appears split on the issue, with the First Minister's official spokesman stating that ministers had an "open mind".

"We have an open mind about alternative public-sector models, and we are keeping that under review," he said. "Mutualisation is one possible model."

The spokesman made that comment just after Stewart Stevenson, the minister who is responsible for Scottish Water, told MSPs he was happy to review the status of the authority, but he added: "I'm not intending that we head towards mutualisation."

There is no split at all here. None. Not a jot of an iota. What we do have is Hamish failing to split hairs.

What a joke unionism is.
61

Methalions,

22/02/2008 12:16:45
61 kimba

Warm enough here kimba. I've decided to be more pleasant. I don't know how long it'll last though.
62

Alex, Young Laird d' Drumchapel,

Madrid 22/02/2008 12:16:49
#Niqaryt,22/02/2008 10:51:51

"Whats wrong with privatising water?

Our food supply is entirely privatised, food is just as essential for life as water."

Birds and the bees chat here. Ok Niqaryt, tell me exactly which specific type of food is absolutely essential for life? Then consider that there is only 1 water. Get it kido?
63

kimba,

22/02/2008 12:16:50
When you get some manners I will answer you,and if being a size 16 is to much for you, go back to your anorexic trollops.
64

Buckpool Loon,

Cheshire 22/02/2008 12:19:49
If privatisation had ever any claim to be a panacea it was as a placebo with a short effective lifespan and with disastrous consequences.

With any commodity that allows a monopoly or near monopoly: i.e. cartel, supply position to exist privatisation becomes the euphemism for a guaranteed profit gained by the few at the expense of the many - the few being the shareholders, the many the consumers.

We have the perfect example in our bills for domestic heating and lighting. Since 1999, these have increased by some 73%. Well above any official compounded rates of inflation for the same period and all of it explained and exonerated, by the suppliers atleast, due to the spin of market forces?

At the time, we were told by the advocates of these policies, we would have the benefits of the Ombudsmen, to underscore any infringement due to innapropriate management or financial policies being passed on as costs to the consumers. In effect these watchdogs have been proved to be toothless. Or at least so lethargic, they only bark once the theft is over. Bank charges, pension scams, payment protection insurances, utility prices are all costs that have been foisted on the gullible consumer without any effective oversight by the authorities. In fact it would be a fair critique to say their ineffective existance is just another hidden cost within the financial sponge of the quango's.

So, to get back to this particular non article - if Scottish Water is ineffecient in anyway, the solution is to adress these and remove the cause, not tinker with the effects in order to hide their existance.
65

kimba,

22/02/2008 12:20:07
meths. Pleased to hear someone is warm;what's your take on the Berwick issue,seems to me it's all abought "freebies"
66

Richard,

west lothian 22/02/2008 12:22:23

kimba,

I do apologize, I thought culturally, it was a form of endearment down your way?
67

The west awake,

Argyll 22/02/2008 12:23:23
Langtonian
"...one can assume therefor you approve First Minister Alex Salmond "showboating" with his friends Rev Ian Paisley and Martin Mcguiness within the environs of Holyrood.
On the basis that one is judged by the company one keeps, yourgoodself, by your own declared unswerving loyalty to the SNP.approve by association the link between these two renegade NI political pariahs and the SNP(TT)."

Are you serious?

Firstly, the 2 NI politicians concerned are the democratically elected leaders of the 2 main parties in NI politics. You may not like either, but that's democracy (and no reason to term them "renegades" either), I don't like Gordon Brown, but would not advocate Salmond ignores him next time he comes to Scotland.
You appear very intolerant of anyone who doesn't toe the standard UK line (of last century).
Secondly, I don't know what party you support, I suspect Labour, in which case your comments are bizarre given that both figures have been lauded many times by senior Labour figures including, of course, that paragon of virtue, Tony Blair.
- Are you really suggesting that Salmond should shun the FM and deputy FM of NI?
If so are you saying Brown should do the same?

I honestly haven't a clue where you're coming from on this!
68

Methalions,

22/02/2008 12:24:34
kimba

I think the Berwick thing is just a stirrer of a story. It'll not happen (I don't think). Admittedly the border has changed umpteen times and the locals had some kind of a poll. I thought it a bit crazy for the MSP to make an issue of it.

There you are kimba...not a put down...not a pointed jibe..it was all a bit childish. The new me has arrived.
69

Richard,

west lothian 22/02/2008 12:26:34
Recomended viewing live Holyrood t.v. on now.
70

,

22/02/2008 12:26:41
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71

Methalions,

22/02/2008 12:26:56
...off thread for a moment.. a month or so back the SNP were slagged off for Kenny's alcohol (3 for 2 etc) ideas. I disagreed with it and many unionists got toren into the SNP. Now of course it's a UK thing. I still disagree, but what are the unionists saying now that it's the UK government floating this? Is it now "a good thing?"
72

kimba,

22/02/2008 12:27:52
68. WHAT!are you a complete numpty,people in stockton-on-tees have more decorum.
73

,

22/02/2008 12:30:00
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74

kimba,

22/02/2008 12:32:01
70,meths. Thanks for being honest,and please keep the new you.
75

Methalions,

22/02/2008 12:34:01
72
Ayrshire Scöt™,
22/02/2008 12:26:41
"Methalions……………The man who lives in Spain and has the cheek to tell us how to
Live our lives in Scotland.

It would be funny if it was not so sad."

About time too! Where have you been? I bait the hook and cast the line and here you are as regular as clockwork. I don't really think you're annoyed I live in Spain. We have posters from around the globe posting here. They all have an input.

This phrase you use with all your IDs...do you honestly believe - seriously - that I tell people how to live their lives? This all started off when I was asked a simple question about prices/weather/ cost of living etc. I responded...end of story. I think you're just annoyed that I made some barbed comments in the past & you took it seriously. If you took offence, I apologise for that.

Remember Ayrshire, that when posters "attack" other posters, it's the ID that's being attacked - not the person!

Anyway - it's the new me now. No posting wind-ups just for the sake of it. I will of course respond if someone "attacks" me.

Yours holding out the hand of friendship from across the waters.....Meths.
76

Methalions,

22/02/2008 12:37:04
75
Ayrshire Scöt™,
22/02/2008 12:30:00
"Methalions........ learn some Spanish and make some postings on the El Figaro Forum.

What happens in Scotland is none of your business."

1 Spanish would be pointless as LE Figaro is a French newspaper

2 Regarding "What happens in Scotland is none of your business", tell that to the unionists who post from abroad. Anyway...I currently am abroad. You'll be glad to know I'll be returning soon for a break. BTW I'm allowed to vote, so I'll continue posting if that's OK with you.

Meths...offering the hand of friendship....
77

,

22/02/2008 12:37:41
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78

kimba,

22/02/2008 12:38:11
75.i agree with you 99% of the time,but feel you are on the wrong track bitching at meths,If you love England and want to stay in the union as I do bitching at a scotsman 100's of miles away is not going to do a damn thing!
79

,

22/02/2008 12:38:46
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80

Nikostratos,

22/02/2008 12:41:05
#55 Jackie Priest

I am getting the impression you do not favour 'Unionists'
reading you posts..........


Do not interfere with an army that is returning home. When you surround an army, leave an outlet free. Do not press a desperate foe too hard.
- Sun Tzu


78 meths


Le figaro.........he.he..he........Unionists Duh
81

,

22/02/2008 12:41:12
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82

Macd123,

22/02/2008 12:43:30
Forget the dogma, why should everyone else pay more for worse water?
83

kimba,

22/02/2008 12:46:11
83. That is your choice,however, I love my country of birth and would defend her no matter what,but think we can all have our separate
84

Methalions,

22/02/2008 12:47:22
Niko

Afternoon Niko.
85

kimba,

22/02/2008 12:47:27
parliaments within the UK.
86

Methalions,

22/02/2008 12:50:29
Ayrshire 79 & 81

Wini from Malta? Sunshine? Are you on a wind-up? If you are, then fine. I'm sure I posted before that I never thought you were the Maltese Falcon. Anyway, this is boring for everybody else. As the "other" Ayrshire Scot (and they are legion) chooses not to use the moniker any more, you are Ayrshire Scot with the ¨ above the o.

87

Methalions,

22/02/2008 12:51:49
kimba

I think you favour federalism. I could be persuade if Independence were not to be.
88

kimba,

22/02/2008 12:52:46
84. How do you know the water will be worse!
89

Il Penseroso,

Inverurie 22/02/2008 12:59:19
We keep being told that as the North Sea reserves diminish we may have to rely on unstable regimes to provide us with oil and gas. What would it be like if we had to rely on such "unstable" regimes for our water? In light of these circumstances, could anyone tell me how many of the ENGLISH water companies are owned by the British government? It seems to me that "johnny foreigner" already owns most of them and the surrounding lands! In other words we could be held "over a barrel" if water in Scotland is privatised. Frank Macbride #36 Your comments must be taken on board. No Mutulisation. No Privatisation. What is more important? A gallon of oil or a gallon of water? Westminster has already stolen our oil! Don't give them the chance to do the same with our water and as you accurately poited out Thatcher, that bitch from hell, stole the Trustees Savings Bannk. The sooner we get rid of these bank robbers at Westminster the better. Water is a Scottish resource that is more important than oil. There will be more wars fought over water in future years than there ever will be over OIL.
90

kimba,

22/02/2008 13:01:03
89,meths. Indeed I do,cannot see any other way but while we have this terrible labour raj we in England are being muffled; did you know on the 20th feb the English democrats held a demo in parliament square demanding a parliament for England,this was not reported on the news the powers that be are petrified the English people will wake up and demand their own parliament.
91

Methalions,

22/02/2008 13:10:00
92 kimba

The bulk of the UK press doesn't favour federalism or separatism. You won't get balanced reporting on this.
92

,

22/02/2008 13:13:09
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93

,

22/02/2008 13:14:17
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94

Nikostratos,

22/02/2008 13:16:08
#93 for #95

not an old timer is he...............
95

kimba,

22/02/2008 13:17:57
meths. Now I know what it feels like to live in a communist state. The press seem to be gaged by this demonic labour government.
96

Methalions,

22/02/2008 13:28:19
94 & 95 Ayrshïre Scot

1 Wini? I haven't a clue. Some say it's English Voice who also may be Highland Mighty. I don't know. I used to annoy EV / HM bit that was the old Meths.

2 The Maltese Falcon posted a while back but hasn't been seen for ages. He was OK.

3 100 postings in capitals..ramping up to eleven? No that's not me.

I posted as Methalions then when that was hijacked, posted as Disputer. That too was hijacked so I'm back as Methalions. I haven't cloned or copied anybody. I condemned it when Duncan in Edinburgh was cloned. It simply muddies the waters.

As I said before, when Ayrshire Scot appears I'll assume it's you and not the previous one. Then again we have Ayrshire Scot. and Ayrshire Scot? etc.

Yep...it muddies the water a tad.
97

Methalions,

22/02/2008 13:31:39
kimba

A communist state..like Cuba?...with an envied health service. Life expectancy and infant mortality rates in Cuba are comparable to Western industrialized countries.
Cuba has some of the highest rates of education and literacy in the Americas.

Hmm...Cuba...sounds interesting.
98

Methalions,

22/02/2008 13:31:47
100
99

kimba,

22/02/2008 13:34:04
99,meths. sounds a damn site better than Britain!
100

Alex, Young Laird d' Drumchapel,

Madrid 22/02/2008 13:35:39
When people are losing an argument they try to save face by using various tactics for example rubbishing the context or by telling their opponent they have no right to have a point of view. Telling someone they have no right to a point of view because they live abroad it a sign of a fool.
101

Alex, Young Laird d' Drumchapel,

Madrid 22/02/2008 13:38:21
Eh Meths,
Poverty is rife. There is a huge sex-tourism industry, old people have nothing. People can not afford drugs from the chemist and often die of illnesses - deaths totally avoided in Europe. There are a lot of myths about Cuba amigo..
102

kimba,

22/02/2008 13:41:50
103. Sounds like England!
103

Joe M.,

Edinburgh 22/02/2008 13:51:13
SNP split? I don't think so. Salmond has backed a review to find out the facts but his position is he's against Mutualisation and reckons than any review is likely to give support to that position. The party is also against mutualisation, so where's the split?
104

kimba,

22/02/2008 13:57:00
105. Well salmond would be on the winning side,and you are a total suck up.
105

subrosa,

22/02/2008 13:58:08
# 63

Keep trying Meths. Take it hour by hour.....
106

An Beal Bacht,

22/02/2008 14:11:58
i think I just entered the twilight zone! Folks are much too pleasant to each other! This can't be the Hootsman?