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Salmond's seduction wins over business



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Published Date: 02 May 2008
A SCOTSMAN survey today reveals the Scottish National Party is winning the battle for the hearts and minds of Scotland's business community.
As the party prepares to celebrate 12 months in office after winning the election a year ago tomorrow, Alex Salmond will be delighted at the results of our poll which shows that the business community is starting to believe in the SNP. Backing from business is vital if the Nationalists are to achieve independence and the First Minister has made great efforts to woo its support.

His cuts in rates for small businesses and the axing of tolls on the Forth and Tay road bridges have proved popular.

Many businesses have said they now feel that they have someone who is willing to listen and who will fight their corner.

Influential figures such as the entrepreneur Sir Tom Farmer say that while the SNP has made an encouraging start, the party now needs to "put some meat on the bones". However, The Scotsman's poll, of 648 businessmen and women, will put a smile on the First Minister's face as it found 39 per cent were now more in favour of independence than 12 months ago.

And 57.5 per cent of respondents believed the SNP was doing a good or excellent job in power.

Only 18.2 per cent thought that the Nationalists' performance had been poor or disastrous.

According to people from across the business community, the SNP's cut of business rates, in the Small Business Bonus Scheme, has brought cheer to many and swung support towards them.

It has seen many small businesses save hundreds or even thousands of pounds a year, boosting their profit margins by up to a third.

The aim of growing Scotland's economy, recently dismissed by leading Scottish economist Arthur Midwinter as being impossible to measure, has been popular within the business community.

Other measures like ending the bridge tolls, bringing in a new qualifications scheme for schools and giving a clear schedule for transport works have pleased the business world.

Also, the much politically criticised move of calling in Donald Trump's £1 billion golf resort in Aberdeenshire, after it was rejected at council level, has deeply impressed businesses.

Iain McMillan, the director of CBI Scotland, told The Scotsman: "The Trump issue was very important because it gave a signal, after the terrible decision by the council committee, that Scotland is open for business and whatever the political fallout, businesses viewed the SNP's actions very positively.

"We have been very impressed that the Scottish Government has set growing the economy as one of its top priorities."

But he added: "I think the jury is out at the moment. There have been many positives and some negatives. The SNP have engaged with business, the cuts in small business rates have been good, we like the skills and qualifications scheme and we are pleased that the Scottish Government has given a timetable and committed to spending money on transport infrastructure improvements.

"On the other hand, we were not pleased that they cancelled the Edinburgh Airport rail link and a lot of members are not happy that they are trying to get Scotland out of the UK.

"Also, we worry about the local income tax proposal and the message that will send out, that Scotland is the highest-taxed part of the UK. That is not a business-friendly attitude.''

Mr McMillan went on: "In addition, the changes to Scottish Enterprise have been a mixed bag. We were pleased with the general direction, but not with giving business gateway responsibilities to councils."

After emerging from the 3 May poll last year with one more seat than Labour, the SNP had to persuade bosses that business would not be placed way down the agenda.

So Mr Salmond picked one of their own to go and talk to them. Jim Mather, the enterprise and tourism minister, has a strong track record as a businessman and is at the heart of pushing the efforts to boost tourism by 50 per cent in Scotland.

"We like the efforts Jim Mather has made, although time will tell on the target," said Dumfries and Galloway B&B owner Alan Keith.

Mr Mather said his approach was to talk go out and talk to as many sectors of the business community as he could.

"My feeling is that the business community did not feel the previous administration engaged with them properly," he said. "One of my main tasks is to go out and talk to all these sectors, get people together and see what we could do about growing Scotland's economy.

"We have set that as one of our top priorities and I think that has chimed well with business people."

Sir Tom Farmer does not regret the £100,000 he gave to the SNP to fight the 2007 election. "There's a buzz about the country at the moment," he said.

"People in the business world who questioned my actions before now say that the change has been a good thing for the country."

But the SNP's political opponents have warned the Nationalists are enjoying a honeymoon period which will end.

Labour's finance spokesman, Iain Gray, said: "These results are not surprising considering the effort and public money ploughed into putting a positive spin on independence."

Tory finance spokesman Derek Brownlee said: "This reflects that many in the business community are enjoying the benefits of the cut in business rates pushed through in the budget by the Conservative Party."

And Lib Dem finance spokesman Tavish Scott noted: "I have yet to meet a businessman who wants the SNP government to waste its time debating independence."

VERDICTS

ALLAN KEITH, Bed and breakfast owner in Dumfries and Galloway.

"On the whole I've been impressed with the way that Jim Mather has approached some of the problems, especially by tackling the VisitScotland website. That has impressed people in the trade.

"There are still problems, especially with over-regulation. Their aim of 50 per cent increase in tourism is positive, but they need to deliver."

MOHAMMAD SHEIKH, 41, who owns the Home Collections in Kilbirnie, North Ayrshire

"I voted Labour last year, but now I would vote SNP. I think Alex Salmond is a strong leader who is fighting hard for Scotland, much harder than Labour did before him.

"I was very pleased with the cut in business rates because it means I have a lot more money I can spend on my family. I have three children, so having extra money in my pocket really makes a very big difference.

"I'm not sure about independence but I think it's worth looking at down the line and there needs to be more of a campaign on it first."

ANDY WILLOX, FSB Scotland's policy convener.

"The Federation of Small Businesses (FSB) in Scotland has been impressed by the SNP's first year in government.

"The introduction of the Small Business Bonus is having a real and positive effect on the cash flow of around 150,000 of Scotland's small businesses and is endearing the SNP to the small business community. Other key commitments, such as the abolition of tolls on the Forth and Tay bridges, are again giving the small business community reasons to be positive. However, there are still some areas of concern as energy and fuel prices spiral upwards and large scale supermarkets and out-of-town shopping centres continue to get the thumbs up."

JIM McCOLL, Chairman and Chief Executive of engineering company Clyde Blowers.

"I think most of what has happened over the last year has been pretty positive. I like the idea of the focus of the government being on economic growth. I get the same message from business colleagues.

"It has been good to have a government that recognises we need to grow the economy and encourage entrepreneurs to pay for all the other things we need to improve the quality of life for all people in Scotland.

"The SNP are a minority government and do seem to have accepted that they need to work with people, including the business community. I'm just a bit disappointed that some of the opposition parties have been a bit more negative."

SIR TOM FARMER, leading Scottish entrepreneur who gave the SNP £100,000 to fight the 2007 election.

"I am very pleased with my investment, because the money I gave to the SNP was an investment into the future of Scotland.

"There seems to be a buzz around the place at the moment, it's hard to put your finger on why that is exactly, but the change of government has brought a positive feeling to Scotland.

"However, the SNP now need to put the flesh on the bones of what they have achieved over the next three years. I only gave them money to help even up the fight because I thought Scotland needed a change.

"I think even the Unionist parties have quietly agreed with more independence for Scotland, even if it is not total independence, but it is hard to really see what independence really means."

SEEKING ANSWERS

The Scotsman did not use a professional polling company for the survey. Nevertheless, it is a useful snapshot because it questioned subscribers to scotsman.com's Business Briefing service.

Thousands of managing directors, senior managers and business people have signed up to the service, to receive daily updates from Scotsman journalists.

To read Business Briefing, go to business.scotsman.com

Registered users who wish to join the thousands of others who receive the Business Briefing daily newsletter, visit the Members Area portion of the site (button top left of any screen) and select Email Preferences.




The full article contains 1615 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

 
1

Conan the Librarian™,

02/05/2008 00:15:17
"And 57.5 per cent of respondents believed the SNP was doing a good or excellent job in power."

"However, The Scotsman's poll, of 648 businessmen and women, will put a smile on the First Minister's face as it found 39 per cent were now more in favour of independence than 12 months ago"

Is this the Scotsman!?
2

Dougie Douglas,

Brisbane 02/05/2008 00:16:50
Quite a lot of unison from members of the business community.

Business people look in their till to decide if a government is doing a good job of managing things.

You can't spin away the fact that the SNP's initiaves are helping business in creating more jobs.
3

Conan the Librarian™,

02/05/2008 00:17:33
...And just how many were in favour then?

Any chance of a cumulative total?
4

Dougie Douglas,

Brisbane 02/05/2008 00:18:40
#1

Is this the Scotsman?

Yes Conan I'm surprised they haven't critised the validity of their own survey
5

Dougie Douglas,

Brisbane 02/05/2008 00:18:46
#1

Is this the Scotsman?

Yes Conan I'm surprised they haven't critised the validity of their own survey
6

Conan the Librarian™,

02/05/2008 00:26:29
7
Hi Spook.Have a good birthday?
7

Alfred E. Neuman,

02/05/2008 01:00:52
"Business"? What does that mean? Pointless spreadhseet shufflers in the financial district? Merchants who buy and sell shell suits making their cash by encouraging slave labour abroad and ripping off their neighbours at home?

Winning respect from "Business" is meaningless, companies do not have a vote!

Engineering and manufacturing, farmers and GP medical partnerships. Is that "business"? I wish it was!
8

GBscot,

Idaho Falls 02/05/2008 01:26:29
The cancellation of EARL will come back to haunt SNP and the Tory cohorts who backed them in the vote. Still no sign of a replacement EARL, one wonders if they are hoping the country will forget. SNP didn't forget the M74 extension nor the Glasgow Airport rail link. One must assume they are using the original EARL
funding to finance their policies at the expense of Edinburgh and the East of Scotland.?
9

somerferg,

Perth 02/05/2008 01:44:35

#10 - brrr, brrr, brrr, brrr - yes thats the sound of crickets. You must be feeling VERY lonely as your waffle just doesn't seem to be getting through - shame really :]
10

subrosa,

02/05/2008 02:02:25
# 14

You're joking surely saying 'at the expense of Edinburgh'. There's more money ploughed into Edinburgh than any other city in the country, far more. If the Edinburgers choose to use it for a single tram line then so be it. It won't come back to bite the SNP - they voted against it.
11

Wisnaeme,

wisnae there 02/05/2008 02:22:46
Ah, I wondered if a Mr Trump's name would appear in this article, himself being an entrepreneur businessman.

...are where is the penny's worth of not very news worthy comment of not a lot from Nicol then?

Tell me do Mr Stephen, would you say your business acumen pronouncements were helpful in regard to an investment by the sea side.

or was that business acumen less than helpful to yourself in the cackhanded way you dealt with your self's and your speciality of being economical with the truth.

I suggest Mr Nichol Stephen ponders his usefulness in matters of business and considers his options elsewhere.

Or just takes a long holiday and give us all a break from his endevors to create something out of nothing.
.
.


12

Alan Reid,

NZ 02/05/2008 03:01:37
This is good, well done the SNP.
13

Alfred E. Neuman,

02/05/2008 03:02:53
19 Bob10

I appreciate your point. Winning business is about soliciting donations.

On a banal point of correctness, political donations are not tax deductable for a company.

"Wholly, necessarily and in the course of business" is the general rule, tax deductions for political donations specifically included in the legislation as exempt. Also, if I recall correctly (used to do this crap), any political donations must be noted in the public accounts of a company.
14

Watson,

Irvine 02/05/2008 03:06:07
Only 18.2 per cent thought that the Nationalists' performance had been poor or disastrous.

I wonder what this 18.2% thought of Nu Labour's performance over 8 years?
In the English/Welsh council elections the Nu Labour Party have lost over 100 seats
15

KampungHighlander,

02/05/2008 04:22:40
#10 Alfie
"Winning respect from "Business" is meaningless"

I guess when you cannot attack the facts, your best strategy is to diminish their importance. I guess we are going to see the Unionist mob rather than quoting polls, trying to say polls are unimportant as their numbers slide into the mire.

#18 Nobby
"One should never forget that Adolf Hitler wooed German Business in the 1930's because he wanted it's support. History shows what that led to."

When you can't attack policy, your only resort is slander and innuendo. Looks like you have lost the argument.

When are we going to get some really skilled minds supporting the Unionist side. The current lots performance is so pathetic it even makes Wendy look brilliant.

When is AM2 going to crawl out from under his rock?
16

Guga II,

Rockall 02/05/2008 04:40:42
#1 Conan. It is, indeed, the Hootsmon. That's why they had to use a pejorative term like "seduction" in their headline for this article. They just can't help themselves; but when you consider the ownership, the management and the staffing of the Hootsmon, I suppose it shouldn't be surprising.
17

interstellarmince,

outer-space 02/05/2008 07:03:32
AM2

All polls are rigged.

Independence is near.

End of.
18

Rulesbutnotrulers,

Federation, not separation 02/05/2008 07:10:14
These Salmond policies have nothing to do with independence. They are good policies under any system.

Businessmen anxious to get into bed with SNP should, however, first ascertain and then evaluate SNP's post independence economic plans. I think we'd all like to know these, please. Some SNP supporters speak of land nationalisation, for example. Is this official policy?
19

Evan Owen,

Snowdonia 02/05/2008 07:14:50
Who pays for all these freebies?
20

brownlie,

02/05/2008 07:34:12
26 AM2

Oh dear, as one of your strongest allies I fear the nats will make hay of your unfortunate quote from George Orwell.

They might point out that he was a Democratic Socialist who believed in free debate and free elections so he would definitely favour the free debate in the nats Conversation exercise. He would certainly be opposed to the extremely limited debate - open only to a chosen few - which is our Review. Being in favour of free elections he would almost certainly be in favour of a referendum.

I feel that it was a mistake to use the quote "Every nationalist is capable of the most flagrant dishonesty" which may give the nats the opportunity to accuse us unionists of flagrant dishonesty, given that we find it difficult to find any real evidence of this on the Scottish National Party.

Can I suggest a little bit more research before we come out with statements of this nature.
21

Geoff,

29 02/05/2008 07:37:43
29 Rules-well said. The SNP have given Scottish politics a fresh face and they have seemingly performed well under Alex Salmond but this does not necessarily translate into support for Independence.As I have said before and without in any way detracting from the SNP deserved first year accolades, they could hardly fail against the dismal performance of NuLabour-have yous seen the England/Wales local election results thus far!
Meths-if ur out of yer bed-did my Gers redeem themselves?
22

Alfred E. Neuman,

02/05/2008 07:38:06
31 brownlie

You are talking crap. The national conversation isn't free debate.

A referendum is a waste of time in 2008. The SNP want one in 2010 so there is noone that wants it before then, what the fork are you on about?

Another hate-filled post from you denouncing democracy and making up double think labels for the SNP ministry of truth.
23

Guga II,

Rockall 02/05/2008 07:53:02
#32 AM Squared.

You do have a habit of shooting yourself in the foot, don't you.

In any event, as an Irishman, what do you have to say about Mahatma Gandhi's comments on nationalism?

“I want the freedom of my country so that other countries may learn something from my free country… so that the resources of my country may be utilised for the benefit of mankind.”

“My love, therefore, of nationalism or my idea of nationalism is that my country may become free, that if need be the whole of the country may die, so that the human race may live. There is no room for race hatred there. Let that be our nationalism.”

“Our nationalism can be no peril to other nations in as much as we will exploit none, just as we will allow none to exploit us.”

“It is impossible for one to be internationalist without being a nationalist. Internationalism is possible only when nationalism becomes a fact, i.e., when peoples belonging to different countries have organized themselves and are able to act as one man. It is not nationalism that is evil, it is the narrowness, selfishness, exclusiveness which is the bane of modern nations which is evil.”

Mahatma Gandhi
24

,

02/05/2008 07:55:14
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
25

,

02/05/2008 08:10:21
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
26

,

02/05/2008 08:12:08
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
27

Nikostratos,

02/05/2008 08:21:41
"The Scotsman did not use a professional polling company for the survey."

Therefore as the snp would say we dismiss this survey as inaccurate and misleading........you may as well as put your thumb in the air...
28

donald,

glasgow 02/05/2008 08:21:42
"Seduction"? Honeymoon"? Is this th News of the Screws?
29

Stephen101,

Seduction? Or just competent 02/05/2008 08:28:35
No it is not seduction, SNP is popular with businesses because it is competent and knows what it is talking about and is clear about where it wants to get to.

Talk to Civil Servants who work with these ministers and they love it. Previously they had ex teachers, community workers, social workers thrust into positions they could not comprehend. Anything approaching a decision needed detailed evaluations, fact finding missions, 'best advice', in fact anything to make sure theur backs were covered. It took at least 18 months to educate them on what their job was, then a year doing it, and then the rest preparing to be re-elected.
SNP ministers arrived on top of their briefs with experience from the 'real world'.If a minister believes it is right to do something they say fine get on with it!


They might not get it all 100% right, but by God at least they are trying, and they have the skills and experience to make it happen.

The sooner the Scotsman wakens up to the fact that we could be entering a golden age for Scotland the sooner we will start to get balanced articles here that are based on fact.

The word seduction just triviliases the reality of what SNP has achieved in such a short time.
30

Stephen101,

Where is AM2 going??? 02/05/2008 08:31:38
Hey AM2, are you going back to Ireland/Ulster/N Ireland/the wee six/the 6 counties?

If so when, and do intend returing?

Will you have internet access when you do go? (My hired killer is awaiting the answer to that last one with some eagerness)
31

Guga II,

Rockall 02/05/2008 08:32:18
#38 AM Squared.

I was merely asking your opinion on Gandhi's comments on nationalism; especially as you seem to be dead set againsy any form of nationalism. Are you therefore saying that Gandhi was talking rubbish?

As for your other extracts from your filing system regarding things I have said in the past, let me put you straight on a few of them.

The English are foreigners. They are Germanic in their origin (Angles, Saxon, Jutes etc.). That is a fact. They are war-mongers and neighgbours from hell; just look at their history, particularly in relation to Scotland.

Scotland is under the imperialist yoke, and the jackboot of English colonialism. Again, a fact. They only hang on to Scotland as we are subsidising them. They would only consider giving us our independence when they can get no more out of us, and they can no longer exploit us.

I may, now and again, remind people of your Irish origins . This is only to allow them to wonder at why you are so virulently anti-Scottish, and what your motives are. I must admit, I am still puzzled by your motives, and can only assume that something on your background makes you so pro-English. Incidentally, unles you are, for some reason, ashamed of being Irish (and I cannot see any reason why you should be ashamed) what is your problem?

As for me telling you to go back to Ireland, I think you will find that what I said was that if you are so desperately unhappy living in Scotland, that perhaps you should consider going home. I consider that a fair comment. After all, if I was desperately unhappy at living in another country, I would move, or go home.

Anyway, I notice you, in your usual fashion, introduce assorted other bits to try and avoid the question - you do this regularly. That being, of course, do you think Gandhi was a fool or an idiot because he believed in nationalism?
32

Rulesbutnotrulers,

Federation, not separation 02/05/2008 08:37:50
Gandhi was a South African. Just a thought.
33

Publius,

London 02/05/2008 08:41:53
Another piece of evidence that the SNP are Scotland's Tories. The SNP is a party bankrolled by businessmen, strongest in areas that were once Tory and pursuing pro-business policies. It is a good thing that Scotland now has a vibrant centre-right party. But it's a pity that many nationalists won't admit that that's what the SNP is.
34

Publius,

London 02/05/2008 08:48:28

#47 Guga II
You write "The English are foreigners. They are Germanic in their origin (Angles, Saxon, Jutes etc.). That is a fact. They are war-mongers and neighgbours from hell; just look at their history, particularly in relation to Scotland."

Is this what the SNP means by civic nationalism? ... Or ar eyou a unionist agent provocateur?
35

brownlie,

02/05/2008 08:49:08
35 AM2

Sorry, I did not realise that you are the sole judge of what constitutes unionism and I further did not realise that being a unionist precludes a person from pointing out any flaws in the system.

I was pointing out what I saw as flawed reasoning in quoting Orwell and attempted to point out Orwell's real thoughts on politics.

I, also, note with a great deal of concern, as I suspect do my fellow Scottish voters, the inherent unfairness of the Review.

This review was set up by three parties who, individually, are minority parties with no electoral mandate to govern this country.

These individual parties have, since the election, sought to stifle, quite often farcically and against their individual principles, any initiative by the democratically elected Scottish Government.

To further by-pass the democratic process in Scotland they have set up this review with even more narrow aims than mine could ever be. They have filled this review with individuals who are by no means representative of the Scottish electorate and they have ensured that you and I will have no opportunity to air our views and I cannot think of one person on the review with the courage to air my views for me. Indeed, the review has the potential to become a ridiculed charade.

Facing facts again, the democratically elected Scottish Government have in the National Conversation set up a forum where you and I and any other Scottish voter, irrespective of political persuasion, can make our views known.
36

Alfred E. Neuman,

02/05/2008 08:49:26
51 Bob Christie

What's the weather like up your own ass?
37

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 02/05/2008 08:50:01
#18 Bob

Disgraceful comment. You really should be ashamed of yourself!
38

Alastair the First,

02/05/2008 08:52:24
"And Lib Dem finance spokesman Tavish Scott noted: "I have yet to meet a businessman who wants the SNP government to waste its time debating independence.""


In that case, pop in and see me sometime, Tavish. Although I wouldn't describe it as "wasting its time".
39

Guga II,

Rockall 02/05/2008 08:55:47
#52 Publius.

Strange as it may seem, I am not a member of any political party; that way I retain the right to criticise any or all of them.

Not only do I criticise the New Labour Sleaze and Corruption Party, I also criticise the Whigs and, when they put their heads above the parapet, the Tories. Moreover, if you regularly read these posts, you will see that I feel free to criticise the SNP also, particularly that waste of space Kenny MacAskill.

In any event, what has nationalism in Scotland got to do with foreigners? I don't mind foreigners, unless they threaten me or my country, but I do not want my country to be run by foreigners. I even know some Englishmen.
40

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 02/05/2008 08:58:22
#26 AM2

You do yourself no credit with childish statements like this:

"Every nationalist is capable of the most flagrant dishonesty,"
41

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 02/05/2008 08:59:43
#26 And before you say that is was Orwell's statement, you are endorsing it!
42

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 02/05/2008 09:02:58
#29 Rules

True, but Labour linked independence to business during last year's election campaign.
43

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 02/05/2008 09:04:47
#32 AM2 performing back-flips........
44

karinxxx,

02/05/2008 09:05:30
hmm a positive snp story by the scotsman anyone would think that labour has just lost an election and the scotsman are now trying to shore up their circulation figures...................
45

Boggle fey the Bog,

02/05/2008 09:07:09
AM2 and others, various posts.

In a recent poll carried out on a consumer survey site 77% of the respondents favoured Independence for Scotland with only 23% against, those against gave the reason for Not wanting Scottish Independence as being the fact that they needed Scotland's Oil.
The question put was as follows:-

'Given that Scotland is an older country than England , should Scotland retake it's place as an Independent Country?'

We could go on all day about polls, but at the end of the day the only ones that matter are elections.

BOT: The article is unusually biased, against no one, strange for the Hootsmaun.

Are they realising that by their 'blind faith' in the Onion, they are loosing readers? Are they finally realising that a good newspaper reports 'News' and is not a 'mouthpiece' for Political Party 'PR people'.
______________________

'The aim of growing Scotland's economy, recently dismissed by leading Scottish economist Arthur Midwinter as being impossible to measure, has been popular within the business community'

Seems a strange position for Nu Labour/Owld Tories 'leading economist' to take, after all when Black Jack was in power, was not the very same person 'Issuing figures' about the rate of economic growth within Scotland compared to the rest of the UK?
Bleak Midwinter indeed, the man's a discredited charlatan.
______________________

The latest ABC figures for the Scotsman for Feb-Mar 08 are ave. distribution of 53,128.

and for SoS are 71,622.


46

karinxxx,

02/05/2008 09:16:40
am2 orwell also said.

It can be plausibly argued, for
instance--it is even possibly true--that patriotism is an inoculation
against nationalism, that monarchy is a guard against dictatorship, and
that organised religion is a guard against superstition. Or again, it can
be argued that NO unbiased outlook is possible, that ALL creeds and
causes involve the same lies, follies, and barbarities; and this is often
advanced as a reason for keeping out of politics altogether. I do not
accept this argument, if only because in the modern world no one
describable as an intellectual CAN keep out of politics in the sense of
not caring about them. I think one must engage in politics--using the
word in a wide sense--and that one must have preferences: that is, one
must recognise that some causes are objectively better than others, even
if they are advanced by equally bad means. As for the nationalistic loves
and hatreds that I have spoken of, they are part of the make-up of most
of us, whether we like it or not. Whether it is possible to get rid of
them I do not know, but I do believe that it is possible to struggle
against them, and that this is essentially a MORAL effort. It is a
question first of all of discovering what one really is, what one's own
feelings really are, and then of making allowance for the inevitable
bias.


Whats your bias then AM2..... brit nat nationialism?
47

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 02/05/2008 09:20:42
#35 AM2 Dare I say that your post sounds dangerously like your own propaganda campaign.

The Constitutional Commission was holed below the water line by democracy.
48

karinxxx,

02/05/2008 09:20:54
The truth is that england and scotland are supposed to be a union of equals. How can we be a union of equals when scotland has its own parliament and england does not. The only fair way to rebalance the union is to give england its own parliament however to do this then scotland must have complete control of all the powers of a parliament otherwise the political power again becomes unbalanced. It follows then that devolution max which is independence by another name is the only way forward. Each parliament scottish english welsh and northern irish must each have complete control of political power over the area which it governs otherwise the union is dead.
49

Mikey,

02/05/2008 09:27:01
It's funny that the virulently anti Scottish posters seem to favour Brit nationalism? Are we to assume that Brit nationalism = good, Scottish nationalism = bad?

Or maybe AM2 (who sometimes is capable of a good arguement) is a realist who knows that should Scotland separate from the rest of the UK, then UK plc. would go down the tubes tout de suite?
50

Mikey,

02/05/2008 09:28:11
Karinxxx, I would suggest that as a union of equals, the country of Scotland should have EXACTLY the same amount of MPs at Westmonster as England does!
51

Gregor Addison,

Glasgow 02/05/2008 09:34:43
Iain Gray, said: "These results are not surprising considering the effort and public money ploughed into putting a positive spin on independence."


So he doesn't trust business to make its own decisions and thinks they are gullible enough to be swayed by what he seems to think is an advertising campaign for independence? No wonder they're sinking in the polls.
52

union member,

Glasgow 02/05/2008 09:35:19
Tories coming home to roost, I see!

Good to see the CBI congratulating the Government for overturning local democracy. Maybe they'll be in favour of a military coups too!
53

ExpatNI,

Somewhereelse 02/05/2008 09:37:23
#18 Bob

What a lot of Cr@p
54

Highland Mighty,

02/05/2008 09:44:32
Didn't the issue of Scottish 'independence' die the other day?

Even though support is at it's lowest ever along with the continuing slide in the SNP's poll lead, is there still some sign of life in that tedious beast?

Astonishing.
55

SeriouslyAmused,

Ayr 02/05/2008 09:44:50
50 Publius,London

Get a grip! The SNP is by its very nature a party of people from different and varied political backgrounds and experiences. Which actually makes it more balanced in its approach. I am sure most SNP members are happy to have their party support business, because business is something everyone has an interest in, be they the business owner or the employee.

What clearly upsets you is this is proof that Scotland IS a nation of can-do will-do people who only need a little encouragement in the directions they wish to go. As opposed to the subsidy junky myth so beloved down south.
56

Gregor Addison,

Glasgow 02/05/2008 09:45:06
AM2 #26

As you well know - since you are clearly not stupid - the result for such questions in any poll depend upon the question you ask. Or are you saying you doubt the two polls that showed support for independence being at 40% or over? If so, you are also guilty of cherry picking from polls that favour your political stance.

As for Orwell, I think you'll find that he was still very much the British nationalist and patriot despite his dislike of the right. Interestingly enough, he once wrote an article for Tribune in which he supported Gaelic (notably, this came during the two years he was living in Jura and writing Nineteen-Eighty-Four). Regarding the quote you selected, I'd argue that nationalism is an assertion of the right to self-determination through having more control over the decision making process. If anyone is convinced of being in the right, it seems to be you.
57

AJ Fife,

02/05/2008 09:51:07
Normally the Scotsman would bury such favourable results for the SNP! What's changed? Has AM2 and his team been kicked into touch at long last?
58

SeriouslyAmused,

Ayr 02/05/2008 09:52:19
10 Alfred E. Neuman

I'd lay off the cratur Alfred. I could not make head not tale of that guff you wrote. Maybe if I was p*ssed as a f*rt too I'd understand it.

Does this evidence of a vibrant Scotland embracing its politicians and working together really upset you that much?
59

Ananurhing,

02/05/2008 09:52:30
Not been on here for a while. Been a bit busy. WTF happened in the last 24 hours?
Nulab have achieved their flagship policy goal of total meltdown.
Tom Brown of the Herald on Newsnight last night apologising, and admitting he was wrong about the SNP government.
Now an unbiased, balanced report from the McPravda!
I think I need a wee lie down.
Job done I would say.
Looks like without a doubt, most definitely..........,
" It's yon time" already.
60

Venachar,

02/05/2008 09:53:56
Gordon Brown and the Labour Party would just love to have Alex Salmond and the SNP's ratings. No matter what party you are from when was the last time either a party or a leader was so far out in front.
Quite simply the SNP are doing things right in most peoples eyes.
Gordon Brown on the other hand is just proving how inept he is! Don't give him more than one thing to think about because he cannot cope. He thought he could be PM because he sat in 11 Downing Street and had all year to prepare for one day in March. He did not get it right, pensions theft and gold sales are two old examples. Left overs from his time as Chancellor the 10p tax band and the increased tax on vehicles, now they are even considering back dating to older vehicles. Do they not understand that people get fed up with crackpot policies particularly when it hurts them in the wallet.
God help us if there is a real emergency he does not know his errse from his elbow. Gordon Brown and Wendy Alexander are the best adverts for the SNP going.
61

frank mcbride,

lusitania 02/05/2008 10:01:35
Hi AM2.

See you're back with your usual, negative, selectively quoted, diversionary distortions. We must be on Election Alert!!!!
62

brownlie,

02/05/2008 10:04:18
34 Alfred

So you've escaped from the jacket again.

No matter how deluded you are, and I do sympathise with your affliction, you will not find any hate in any of my postings.

You may find a degree of contempt in some of them but I do not blindly believe that individuals with opposing views are entirely lacking in sincerity or merit.

What I do find contemptible are postings, with no evidence to back them up, which make statements that are blatantly untrue. Whilst you certainly do not have the monopoly on them just about every posting from you contains elements of that. If such statements are made I am quite happy to lampoon or ridicule them and will continue to do so.

63

Andrew D,

Brisbane 02/05/2008 10:06:31
Hand on heart I'm astonished that the Scotsman published this.

Though I'm sure normal service will be resumed with the Labour partisanship coming to the fore again soon enough. (Please prove me wrong!)

Oh to the numpty that tried to say that Alec Salmond is a proto-Adolf Hitler: pull your head in!
64

karinxxx,

02/05/2008 10:09:53
scotsman yer not fooling us this is just an attempt to keep the election results for labour off the front page.
65

karinxxx,

02/05/2008 10:10:46
this article is to make you stop here and not go on to comment on labours dismal election results in the politics section..............
66

Ugly George,

Edinburgh 02/05/2008 10:12:15
Does anybody fancy a game of "Spot the Difference"

In 2007 Alex Salmond took over power from a Labour administration with a policy of lowering taxation. This would release the entrepreneurial spirit of the people thus stimulating economic growth and reversing years of economic underperformance relative to neighbours.

In 1979 Maggie Thatcher took over power from a labour administartion with a policy of lowering taxation etc. etc. etc.

I am not saying that the policy is wrong but why is it being hailed, by people in Scotland, as visionary when enacted by one when it was rejected and vilified by when enacted by the other?

PS sorry about the spelling of entr........ if I got it wrong.
67

brownlie,

02/05/2008 10:15:27
72 Highland

Good morning, I hope you found the sheep particularly active this morning. Yes, you are quite right independence is a dead duck - Alfred and your alter ego AM2 have convinced me of that. As soon as he was released this morning Alfred consulted the oracles and his findings have astonished the nats and Salmond has admitted defeat and he fled to a beach somewhere in the north-east where he is being consoled by what is left of the nat legions - one man and his dog. Mission accomplished so you have achieved your objective so you do not need to amuse us any more with your articulate and compelling postings.
68

 Ayrshire Scot™,

02/05/2008 10:19:10
70. Union member - I think you will find it was Labour who appointed Digby Jones, former CBI director, to a minsterial job.

Can you explain your comment "over-turning local democracy" ? Given that the full Aberdeenshire council voted massively in favour of the Trump application, in what way does the government putting it to a full public enquiry constitute "over turning local democrarcy"?
69

Arfur,

02/05/2008 10:19:44
#50 Publius - 'It is a good thing that Scotland now has a vibrant centre-right party. But it's a pity that many nationalists won't admit that that's what the SNP is' - I wouldn't know and couldn't care less.

Is this what you base your vote on the people who speak for you on? An imaginary line? If so you are a very stupid little man.

I tend to base my vote on who is going to do the best job for me. Which so far (by far) is SNP.

10 Alfred E. Neuman - Winning respect from "Business" is meaningless, companies do not have a vote! - ???????????????????????????????? Are you this thick man! The people that own them do, the directors do, the parters do, the people that are employed do, the people that can now be employed due to extra cash do.

You usually talk complete guff, but that takes the biscuit.
70

AJ Fife,

02/05/2008 10:34:02
AM2,

A wee slip there pal. You used to claim to be Irish!
71

karinxxx,

02/05/2008 10:34:17
here AM2 you missed a bit from orwells essay. what he actually said about patriotism was

By 'patriotism' I mean devotion to a particular place and a particular
way of life, which one believes to be the best in the world but has no
wish to force on other people


If you are a patriot then you cannot be both scottish and british because if you are a british patriot then you beleive in britain and not seperate countries of england and scotland so stop being an eejit. AM2 your a UK nationalist i wont call you british because as we all know you being northern irish. northern ireland isnt part of britain
72

John south of Soutra,

02/05/2008 10:34:37
#16 subrosa, the edinburghers didn't vote for the tram line it was foisted on them by labour,libdems and the tories, ask poeple in Edinburgh about this project and you will find that they would rather the money was spent on thngs like the south suburban line etc
73

Jwil,

02/05/2008 10:38:41
It sounds that as well as the business community being won over by the SNP, the Scotsman might be too. Can this really be true?
74

Arfur,

02/05/2008 10:41:29
#94 Jwil - was just going to say that, WHATS GOING ON???????????????

This story, Alexander inept story and a report by Salmond. Could The Scotsman be changing its tune?
75

karinxxx,

02/05/2008 10:41:55
here am2 orwell could have written this bit just for you..........

INSTABILITY. The intensity with which they are held does not prevent
nationalist loyalties from being transferable. To begin with, as I have
pointed out already, they can be and often are fastened up on some
foreign country. One quite commonly finds that great national leaders, or
the founders of nationalist movements, do not even belong to the country
they have glorified
76

karinxxx,

02/05/2008 10:43:06
arfur dont be silly they are just trying to stop people commenting on the terrible election results for brown and labour this story and the others are the honey to attract you.
77

Queen D,

Glasgow 02/05/2008 10:44:35
Did someone mention the Telegraph?
That wondrous home of Allan Cochrane and his ridiculous rants.
I think as a newspaper it is a laughing stock in Scotland.Mind you it is an English paper , so can be forgiven for NOT having its finger on the pulse of Scotland.
The same cannot be said for Scotish newspapers.They should have their finger on the pulse of Scotland , and fail time and again to give balanced views.
As someone in business, I too am pleasantly surprised with the SNP , keep up the good work lads and lasses!
This country needs wealth makers and that is where support for business comes in.
Business EMPLOYS people and pays their wages.
I see that Au Naturale has gone into liquidation.
I am sad about that on two counts, the employees and the products.
Spook, Happy Belated Birthday! I have shoes older than you!
78

Sedov,

Scotland 02/05/2008 10:51:11
This news comes as no surprise to me as I have always maintained that the SNP are a centre right party whose policies will suit the bosses - at least in the short term. The real party of the bosses is the Tories and if business does not get what it wants from the NATS it will drop them like a hot potatoe, just as business and the middle classes in England are now dropping New Labour. It is noticeable that Salmond is not declaring any support or even sympathy for the Grangemouth strikers or any other forms of industrial action going on in Scotland. As the present economic situation bites and forces employers to make more and more cuts in jobs and conditions, strikes will increase ( they are already doing so all over Europe) - This will put Salmond and his cohorts so called left creditionals which he claimed before coming to power under severe scrutiny -what then for the present business support he is enjoying at the moment -or indeed his band of loyal supporters who workship at his alter?
79

S Stewart,

Scotland 02/05/2008 11:07:37
Great news indeed. And I hope to God we get independance before the rest of Britain go Conservative again (see the local elections down there).

I'm not a fan of Salmond, but I'm liking his style so far, and the fact that Scotland is getting it's foot in the door at last. Populist enticement or not, envious eyes are watching us now - where they didn't even notice we existed before.

And hey, just who are these people they poll about independance? They never ask me or my family, or friends or workmates, who ALL bar two, want to be free of the Union.
80

Guga II,

Rockall 02/05/2008 11:09:45
#88 AM Squared.

Shot yourself in the foot again, didn't you?

You're from Northern Ireland, but claim to be a Scottish patriot AND a British patriot. As pointed out above Norther Ireland is part of the YUK, so I suppose you could class yourself as a YUK patriot; though given your tendency to keep on bringing out the same garbage, time after time, maybe you should really class yourself as a YUK parrot.
81

Rob,

Moray 02/05/2008 11:15:19
All pretty unsurprising stuff really - but a good excuse for more SNP ranting. Let's face it, after the total incompetence of the previous Labour administration, even a well trained alsation would appear as a huge improvement. Labour are now increasingly being found out on a total UK basis - for once Scotland was ahead of the trend in booting them out.

Mr Salmond won't take anye comfort from the Telegraph poll on Wednesday - that shows that fewer and fewer Scots want to be out of UK. The sooner the referendum happens the better - then we can put the nonsense aside and concentrate on running the country: and just to be fair to the SNP, I, as a Unionist, think they've done a decent job so far.
82

Gregor Addison,

Glasgow 02/05/2008 11:31:25
AM2 #90

You write: Nationalism is a philosophy at whose heart, to varying degrees, is a them-and-us, “my country and damn the rest” philosophy.

That is certainly not my view. I don't accept that opting for further control over the decision-making process is a 'my country and damn the rest' philosophy. Many people in Scotland wish more powers for the Parliament and the question is simply one of how much power it should have. I want full control over the decision-making process and do not wish to cede control of certain aspects, such as going to war, or having Trident, to Britain. The desire for more political control at a more local level is one shared by Liberal Democrats, Conservatives, the SNP, and parties of the left (such as the SSP). Your portrayal of the desire for independence as a negative thing hinges on your definition of the word 'nationalism', a definition that I feel is wanting.

You are also somewhat disingenuous in quoting Niall Aslen (of Independence First and Siol nan Gaidheal) as if his arguments are the same as the SNP's. They are not. I am sure you are aware that Sion na Gaidheal were banned from the SNP some time ago. There will be varying views of what independence means, just as there are regarding dev