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Salmond: 'I'll quit if Budget falls'

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Published Date: 06 February 2008
ALEX SALMOND has threatened to resign and "go to the country" if his Budget is rejected by the Scottish Parliament today.
The First Minister's extraordinary ultimatum represents the final stage in a high-stakes game of brinkmanship over the SNP's first Budget, which will be put to a vote at 5pm.

The Scottish Government will not be able to operate properly or have
any of its key policies adopted without getting a Budget passed.

But, with only a minority of the MSPs in the parliament, the SNP cannot be sure of getting its finance package through.

John Swinney, the finance secretary, has made significant concessions in an attempt to secure the support of the Conservatives, the Greens and Margo MacDonald, the independent MSP.

But the vote is still on a knife-edge and although Mr Swinney will make a series of last-minute concessions today to try to get the support he needs, none of the opposition parties was willing to commit their support to the Budget yesterday.

A spokesman for the First Minister announced Mr Salmond's ultimatum after a meeting of the Cabinet last night.

He said: "If the parliament decides it doesn't want it (the Budget], it would be entirely appropriate for the issues to be taken to the people.

"The view of ministers would be that this would be the right thing to do."

If the Budget is rejected, Mr Salmond has the option of putting a motion for the dissolution of the parliament to the chamber.

That requires a two-thirds majority, which he would probably not achieve.

The alternative scenario would be for all ministers, including Mr Salmond, to resign.

If there is no agreement on a replacement First Minister after 28 days, an election is called automatically.

The spokesman did not rule out the possibility of the First Minister and his Cabinet resigning at 5:05pm if the Budget is rejected by parliament.

But he stressed ministers remained "confident" that it would be approved.

The spokesman also hinted that Mr Swinney would be unveiling extra concessions this afternoon.

He added: "If he has anything to announce, he will announce it in his speech to parliament."

The speech is expected to include a review of the resources used to tackle drug addiction and more emphasis on rehabilitation. An accelerated programme of reduced business rates and a shift in the public-transport budget are also likely, as is more money for health in Edinburgh.

Mr Swinney has already given considerable ground on police numbers, promising to find an extra £10 million from the prisons, roads and health budgets to recruit an extra 300 officers next year.

This was intended to be enough to buy the support of the Tories, but the Conservatives want more for the fight against drugs and on business rates.

Mr Swinney has also already conceded ground to the Greens, promising more than £4 million extra for community anti- climate change projects.

However, the Greens also believe Mr Swinney needs to go further to secure their abstentions. They want at least £3 million extra to help drive down bus fares, to encourage the greater use of public transport.

Ms MacDonald, who has persuaded Mr Swinney to give more money to Edinburgh to help it cope with being Scotland's capital city, now wants extra resources for health.

None of these changes would cost much in the scale of the £30 billion Budget, and all could be achieved without any formal amendments.

However, all would require the transfer of resources, and this would mean trimming other areas to make up the shortfall.

The Budget brinkmanship provoked harsh words yesterday between the Greens and the Liberal Democrats.

Lib Dem MSP Mike Rumbles said: "I want the Greens to confirm whether or not they will vote against the Budget if it contains key policies that they have campaigned against, such as the M74 extension.

"Anything other than a vote against the Budget by the Greens will be a massive betrayal against those few people who voted Green at the last election."

Green MSP Patrick Harvie retorted: "I don't take seriously any challenge from Mike Rumbles, a member of the party which promoted the abysmal M74 northern extension."

Mr Harvie said he and fellow Green Robin Harper would seek to exert "as much influence as possible" on the Budget for the Scottish people and for the environment. "Even at this late hour, we need to see further changes, especially on public transport, because as things stand this is still not a Budget that deserves to pass," he said.




AT A GLANCE: CONCESSIONS AND DEMANDS

What other parties have secured so far:

The Tories have got an extra £10 million for 300 extra police officers this year and another 200 officers in the next two years. They have also been promised a full review of drugs spending and a move towards rehabilitation, rather than methadone.

The Greens have got an extra £4.3 million for anti-climate-change projects.

Margo MacDonald, the independent MSP, has secured extra funding for Edinburgh.

What the parties are still waiting for:

The Tories want business rates to be cut more quickly than previously promised.

The Greens want another £3 million for public transport to cut bus fares.

Ms MacDonald wants more money for health in Edinburgh.

Labour wanted money for skills academies and the Liberal Democrats wanted more money for university, but these plans were rejected by the Scottish Government.


Salmond betting on Labour's weakness with threat to go to the polls

ALEX Salmond has a gambler's instinct. His decision to threaten an election unless he gets his Budget through is a risk, but it is based on both probability and judgment.

The First Minister knows the SNP has never been in such a strong position and Labour has never been so poor.

If there is an election, the chances are that the SNP will win convincingly. This gives him a clear advantage over his opponents. He can threaten an election because he knows Labour doesn't want one.

The chances are that the Budget will go through tomorrow. The one slight downside for Mr Salmond is that he could look spiteful and churlish for pushing the parliament with such an extreme threat. But that is more than compensated for by the pressure he is now exerting on Labour and the Lib Dems.

"Vote this down if you dare," he is saying, safe in the knowledge that, with a leader in trouble, no activists, little direction and no money, Labour cannot afford another election.

This is also a classic political example of good cop, bad cop. John Swinney has been going around offering major concessions to woo the Tories, the Greens and Margo Macdonald, while Mr Salmond is playing hardball.

Together, they will bring the Tories, Greens and Ms Macdonald on board and make Labour and the Lib Dems think very carefully about abstaining today.

With many Labour seats vulnerable in a fresh election, there will now be many MSPs who will have to think long and hard before they press their "no" buttons in the vote today – which is just what Mr Salmond wants.



The full article contains 1197 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 05 February 2008 10:48 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Scottish National Party
 
1

Nova, ,

06/02/2008 00:04:09
The British Empire was led by an Emperor.

The United Kingdom was led by a King.

The Country of Scotland is led by Alex Salmond.
2

Nova, ,

06/02/2008 00:05:54
Bye Bye Alex.

It was not nice knowing you.
3

Bill, Dunblane,

06/02/2008 00:07:09
No lose situation.

Wonder how many nuliebour MSP's won't vote?
4

Nova, ,

06/02/2008 00:09:20
Salmond is a dangerous 'opportunist' of the worst and most inept kind...sad sad state of affairs for oor wee country Im afraid.
5

Wait a minute,

Town 06/02/2008 00:10:21
I would love to see an election. The now meaningless FibDems and the corrupt Labour party would be torn to shreds, however, I hope we see common sense prevail
6

Bill, Dunblane,

06/02/2008 00:10:22
What on earth has the cheap and ridiculous soundtrack got to do with reading news?
7

AJ Fife,

06/02/2008 00:10:47
The Parliamentarian of the Year 2007, has the onionists numpties jumping through hoops of fire, and dancing to the tune of the SNP!

The budget will go through.
8

Senga Jean,

Scotland 06/02/2008 00:12:18
I think Alex is giving a nudge to the greedy little beggars who are asking too much for their vote. it is tough enough with a minority Government without blackmailers. The SNP is the best thing for scotland in years.
9

Neil Waugh,

Old Strathcona 06/02/2008 00:16:45
Giving more dosh to the Green wing nuts could lead to no end of trouble.
Scotland the Brave!!
10

AJ Fife,

06/02/2008 00:19:27
Senga Jean#8,

I think you've hit the nail on the head. Mr Salmond knows exactly how the opposition thinks and works, and he's ALWAYS several steps ahead of them.

In wee wendy's case, he's light years ahead! Poor wee thing that she is! LOL
11

COLINTON.MAINS,

Oakville Ontario 06/02/2008 00:21:43
GO AHEAD AND QUIT I WILL TAKE YOUR JOB/COMING HOME
12

Splashe,

06/02/2008 00:24:45
10. Wendy is not great with money. The budget will be a tricky thing for her to get her head round.
13

COLINTON.MAINS,

Oakville Ontario 06/02/2008 00:25:25
GO AHEAD AND QUIT I WILL TAKE YOUR JOB/COMING HOME
14

Legacy,

06/02/2008 00:26:58
Alex Salmond an Opportunist? He's First Minister of Scotland hardly an Opportunist.
The Scottish People had enough of the LibLabs,the SNP won the Election are now in Power, get used to it.
15

britfree,

nestled in wallaces cheeks smirking at nova 06/02/2008 00:27:47
silly silly unionists we will crush you now. better to wait a decade or so, wait and see if the blush isnt off the nationalist rose(i dont know if white roses have a blush ,they smell sharp though) things might look different then but who knows? you might be different
16

Sgurr,

06/02/2008 00:30:01
Call My Bluff!!!

Salmond knows that the last thing Wendy & Labour needs right now is to be put to the public. A political master-stroke.....or is it? Scottish politics just got more interesting! :)
17

AJ Fife,

06/02/2008 00:32:16
Splashe#12,

She likes nice tidy sums of about £950, which are meant to slip into her purse under the radar! Sometimes, she gets caught oot though!!:DD
18

Splashe,

06/02/2008 00:32:20
16, Wonder if Labour's fundraising is up for another election? Have they enough airmail envelopes?
19

Royster,

06/02/2008 00:36:56
Well Salmond's a gambling man and the odds are probably in his favour given that Labour is so awful at the moment. Nevertheless, the SNP surge that we saw at the last election could easily fail and Salmond would be hoisted by his own petard.
20

Splashe,

06/02/2008 00:38:12
19. Could Jackie Baillie be hoisted by her own petard?

21

Bill, Dunblane,

06/02/2008 00:44:44
20 - Splashe

It would take a shipyard crane!

15 - britfree

Yes, and sweet, and breaks the heart.
22

britfree,

being fly by night 06/02/2008 00:47:42
so many unionists .so little time. right reach out and grab,,,,,,,colinton mains ,hoots toots its not enough that you fancy the job. hes not doing it to make your day . you have to get the votes my mannie .the fact youll have digs nearby doesnt swing it for you im afraid. we need previous experience, a dedicated party buoyed up in the polls ,a ton of charisma ,and the political nous to mash up your rivals .if youve got all that get on the plane from snowy ottowa i hear theres a vacancy coming up in the nu-labs
23

,

06/02/2008 00:49:06
Comment Removed By Administrator
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24

Bird of Prey, Substansiate what you say,

06/02/2008 00:49:27
Alex Salmond will come good at the end of the day. Labour and the libdums are dum dums like post fake #1
25

Sgurr,

06/02/2008 00:49:52
20 - :D You mean the Minister for Fray Bentos East?!!!
26

Roberta Burns,

06/02/2008 00:50:40
If an election is called, there will be a lot of p*ss*ed off voters - having to go out again. And guess who they will blame - Labour. Can't wait.

And, if it shakes of the tories out of their tree, then all the better.
27

Shave,

Edinburgh 06/02/2008 00:51:00
It is up to the SNP to deliver a budget worthy of being passed by parliament. It is them that will carry any blame. Also, I don't think the 'drama-queen' act will impress any but his core vote (who will love it).

I reckon they will make the compromises necessary and a decent budget will be passed.
28

Splashe,

06/02/2008 00:51:38
27 and North, South and West. Do you want that Super-sized Mr Kerr. Sit in or to go?
29

,

06/02/2008 00:52:49
Comment Removed By Administrator
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30

Bird of Prey, Substansiate what you say,

06/02/2008 00:56:41
#31 You tell them god dam it, yeh the SNP will tank the blights. This vote has to be Substansiated.
31

langtonian,

scotus 06/02/2008 01:00:59
#7AJ Fife

Ah widdnae bet ma mortgage on that ma gui laddie.
32

Julian.,

edinburgh 06/02/2008 01:01:04
#25 Splashe

Do they not check for a history of mental illness as well?

Or they could just review his last hundred postings on these forums.
33

Julian.,

edinburgh 06/02/2008 01:03:27
#31 A proud doomhammer,

Did your mother never tell you a bird in the hands worth 2 in the bush....and pride comes before a fall.
34

Sgurr,

06/02/2008 01:03:39
As Royster says, Salmond is a gambling man...:)

I have never joined a political party, nor have I always voted for one party. Indeed, I've been fairly disinterested in politics for big chunks of my life. This, though, is fascinating. Can't wait for tomorrow. I almost want the budget to fail to see what AS does. But, fundamentally, the budget seems sound to me...that must make me a stirrer then, I suppose?
35

Splashe,

06/02/2008 01:04:33
35 How much is a bird in prison for illegal donations worth?
36

,

06/02/2008 01:08:04
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37

DouglasT,

06/02/2008 01:10:38
The other parties know full well that the SNP is a considerably more reasonable party to deal with than Labour, so likely the budget will be passed.

If the budget is voted down and AS resigns then it becomes the opposition parties to form an administration - now who would lead that? bit of a problem there, Labour has the most seats but would you like Wendy as your boss? Are the current Labour party capable of being ruled by Nicol or Goldie? If miraculously it is formed, how long will it last?

If it isn't formed quickly enough or falls apart then its election time - who is in best shape for that?

Besides, Wendy may have to change her plans tomorrow :)
38

Edward,

06/02/2008 01:10:43
I can fully appreciate the frustration that Alex Salmond and the SNP Government are going through.
This is the problem with proportional representation which we have in Holyrood. It allows minority parties to dictate at crucial times, such as the budget. mainstream opposition parties like Labour and the Libdems behaving like the awkeward squad that they are.
What other choice has Alex Salmond? none actually, h has to force the oppostion parties in to supporting, even if it means extreme measures.
The likes of Margo MacDonald couldnt care less, as she clearly wants to make it uncomforable for the government as possible and has stated that this is her final term at Holyrood. As for the Libdems, the Greens , the Tories and Labour, they can ill afford to have an election now. They may talk the talk and try and brass it out, but underneath the water line the paddling for dear life as they now that if an election were to be called no, not one of them could be guaranteed a come back!
39

britfree,

camelon like venice nae nice hooses but 06/02/2008 01:10:43
i would, bet my mortgage though, any election called under these conditions would increase SNP and decrease nu lab if thats the bet im a taker
40

Bird of Prey, Substansiate what you say,

06/02/2008 01:13:17
#37
#38...Not this bird,i am a good bird.
41

Bird of Prey, Substansiate what you say,

06/02/2008 01:15:48
#41 I would bet my nest that you are correct, well said
42

An Beal Bacht,

06/02/2008 01:17:10
I hope they vote it down. Wardog - I think you're wrong here. The SNP would come out of any election with a clear majority and the unionists know it. It's time for some discipline at Holyrood. Alex, Swinney, Sturgeon et. al., have bent over backwards to be reasonable and all they've got for their efforts is sabotage, smear, and blackmail.

Time to demonstrate their alternative - go to the polls and let the people decide. Aye right - nae chance!
43

Rupert Rigsby,

The Grange 06/02/2008 01:18:12
An offer we can't refuse at last from the odious and repulsive character that is Salmond. Go on Alex, the sooner the better. !
44

Splashe,

06/02/2008 01:18:32
44. Did you write Labour should go to the polls or the polis?
45

Edward,

06/02/2008 01:19:46
Mind you with the revelation that Gordon Brown has been bugging one of his own MP's. It wouldnt surprise me if he has been doing the same with the Scottish Government. It would explain a lot as to how Labour in Scotland always have that smug in the know atitude and seem to be at times a step ahead
If they are doing this I wonder what there assement is of the likelyhood of Alex Salmond quiting and Wendy Alexander being the next first minister, all be it as a resident of Corton Vale
46

Jock MacSprog,

06/02/2008 01:19:59
ah I get it now ! Its all about Alex.
47

langtonian,

scotus 06/02/2008 01:20:34
From the dizzy heights of last May-time party conferance/flawed manifesto to the lows of a possible political debacle,a 9month pregnancy threatened with abortion.
Would that not be a UK record for the shortest parliament, devolved or otherwise.

No matter what the result the SNP.are left with nowhere to run and hide,many SNP MSP,s need look no further than Alex Salmond as to many entering the record books as the shortest serving MSP,s.

Chicken's coming home to roost seems appropriate, and some chicken some roost at that!!!
48

Splashe,

06/02/2008 01:20:44
45 Wrote the odious and repulsive Rupert in a paroxysm of fury.....

49

Julian.,

edinburgh 06/02/2008 01:21:22
Splashe and Doomhammer,

I think you guys picked up wrong on my analogy..albeit proably deliberately for humorous purposes.

In case you missed it, the bird is the clutch of MSP's Salmond has giving him a wafer thin majority and the 2 birds is the larger bunch that he possibly mistakenly hopes to catch as a result of a snap election.
50

Splashe,

06/02/2008 01:21:42
49, No Labour managed 6 months in 1974.

Chickens coming home to roost? Don't tell me MacDonalds have sent Kerr some more undeclared MacChicken Nuggets?
51

Bird of Prey, Substansiate what you say,

06/02/2008 01:22:01
#48.. Jock Macfrog, well if it were all about you we would be talking shi#
52

Splashe,

06/02/2008 01:22:38
51. Scottish Labour - I'm Loving It....
53

Teofilio Cubillas,

06/02/2008 01:22:49
#20

Yes she could, but it would have to be a very large one....
54

Julian.,

edinburgh 06/02/2008 01:24:06
#37 Splashe,

A bird in prison for illegal donations is not worth as much as one floundering about vainly trying to stay on her perch.
55

Splashe,

06/02/2008 01:25:22
56. This is true. And as for those 1000 MacChicken sandwiches Andy Kerr didn't decalre, those were valuable ex-birds as well
56

Bird of Prey, Substansiate what you say,

06/02/2008 01:26:33
#57 lol, nice one...
57

Splashe,

06/02/2008 01:26:41
58. I see New Labour want MacDonalds to issue A-level qualifications and degrees. Lets hope they aren't in accounting or administration.....Kerry-oot or sit-in sir?
58

Splashe,

06/02/2008 01:27:40
I am not sure the SNP budget has enough extra police now. If Labour are going to continue on their current crime spree I think we may need lots more.
59

Julian.,

edinburgh 06/02/2008 01:28:19
Splashe # 54,

You're loving Scottish Labour? Sorry to hear it;-)
60

,

06/02/2008 01:32:31
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61

Thatcher's love child,

06/02/2008 01:34:42
Salmond is such a tease.

Like he manisfesto, he will just renege if it doesn't get voted through.

Shame he hasn't a reputation for keeping promises, I was looking forward to this one the most.
62

An Beal Bacht,

06/02/2008 01:36:05
46 - Splashe;

The polls first - so the populace can demonstrate their contempt.

The polis after - so we can all have a good laugh!
63

An Beal Bacht,

06/02/2008 01:37:22
60 - Battalions!
64

Princess Kevin,

in the SS Leibstandarte Adolf Hitler 06/02/2008 01:37:46
Like a great leader he must take his own life. Its is the only way. It seems harsh - but if the budget proposal falls, he must take the only credible way out
65

clochoderic,

renfrashur 06/02/2008 01:38:38
has anyone looked into the wendy / tesco / linwood connection yet ?
just asking ...
66

langtonian,

scotus 06/02/2008 01:41:42
Alex Salmond threatnign to resign is what these comments would best address.

Those who attempt to deflect away from "threatened resignation" to other fictional flummeries as shown above, inuendo and lies regarding Gordon Brown and Wendy Alexander are irelevancies,which only show the desperation tacticts of SNP to shore up a crumbling edifice that has barely moved on from being erected.
67

clochoderic,

the brandy burn 06/02/2008 01:51:14
i refer you to this link, langtonian :http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/england/government/en/1115314843319.html
and remind you wendy has accepted money from said tesco for her "campaign" and now her mouthpiece has left for a better salary with the same multi - national.
nothing to see, move along now ....
68

,

06/02/2008 01:55:18
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69

Sanny,

Glasgow 06/02/2008 02:02:03
Wardog: -

I can't agree with your analysis of the situation and your objection to the stand taken by AS. Whilst this may be seen as a threat it is also an honest statement of his position.

Thus far, AS and the SNP have done a remarkable job as a minority government. However, if the budget is not passed, then their ability to govern is seriously constrained.

They cannot and must not allow themselves to be blackmailed by these Green and Tory opportunists. Concessions have already been made but, like all blackmailers, they come back for more.

In my opinion it is those that would bring the government down by their greed that will pay the penalty. The Tory's are only just beginning to recover from Maggies debacle; this would be seen as further proof that they are not yet to be trusted. As for the Greens; they to would be punished by extinction at an election. Fortunately the egocentric witch that is Margo will be standing down at the next election.

If the budget is not passed then we have two possibilities: -
A) We have a LibLab government again! Slavish adherence to Westminster dictates and an increases in council Tax. This would lead to the total destruction of the Labour party and their wh0res, the LibDem’s.
B) An election!! This would be a nightmare situation for both Lib’s and Labour with the certainty that they would not only lose, but the possibility of the SNP being returned with an overall majority and a fast track to independence.

I’m impressed by AS, the timing of his statement is perfect! He seems to operate on a different and higher intellectual plane than the opposition party’s. Many here have referred to him as a gambler (so he likes a punt), I think a Chess Master would be a more fitting description and he may have drawn the opposition into a “Fools Gambit”.

I expect the budget will be passed; perhaps by only a single vote
70

subrosa,

06/02/2008 02:02:33
Apologies for the change of subject but the Trump representatives are being 'inteviewed' by that lovely Duncan McNeil at 10am today. It'll be live on Holyrood TV.
71

langtonian,

scotus 06/02/2008 02:07:58
No matter what the result in today,s budgetery vote, Alex Salmond has revealed a seriouse infection of Achillies Heal, from which he will not recover, within the walls of the Scottish executive at Holyrood,ergo he would be best to cut his losses and gravtate back to Westminster politics.Where believe it or not, his opportunities to keep putting Scotland,s case might very well hit pay dirt, which would benefit both his own career and Scotlands welfare.

The root cause of his current predicament was he did not appear to pay a great deal of heed to his MSPs, becoming too much of a "one man band", the analogy to Tommy Sheridan and his defunct party resonates in the current situation.


72

,

06/02/2008 02:09:27
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73

britfree,

king malcolms big heid 06/02/2008 02:26:18
73 thats some dreadful whistling in the dark. you cant seriously expect anybody to buy any of that bahookey music ?AS is so head and shoulders above the lil folk they send against him their all scared to face him more than they absoloutely must .as you well know the common opinion(among any but the daftest) is thst he eats them up and spits them out.but dont let that spoil your wee fantasy
74

britfree,

govan long ago 06/02/2008 02:46:47
a nat poster was abroad calling margo a witch , that i should feel this way towards jim & margo makes me very sad .they could not have been in it except for ego and money . whatever their personal animus towards AS their conduct has been so unkind towards the activists who worked so hard to make them household names. perhaps they think we just owed them that anyway coz they were special . ifor one feel im in a movement thats bigger than me .a legacy spoilt for what jim sillars ego .hardly makes sense
75

TommyKaye,

UK 06/02/2008 02:58:18
Nova is a dangerous 'opportunist' of the worst and most inept kind...sad sad state of affairs for oor wee country Im afraid, and his wee friend AM2 as well.
76

Richardinho,

06/02/2008 03:01:25
Without a budget there is no government. I don't see how Salmond has a choice.

the last thing this country needs is another election.
I think the SNP have done the decent thing and tried to meet their opponents halfway-they have a responsibility to respond accordingly.

This is an important test of the maturity of the parliament. If we cant get a budget it will show that consensus politics and the proportional system are a failure.
77

An Beal Bacht,

06/02/2008 03:29:28
Sanny - 71 - Great Post!
78

roboypg4,

Vancouver 06/02/2008 04:45:37
Mr Salmond,I for one are with you all the way...Take it to the People of Scotland...Declare UDI. Its Time
79

Beth Boyle,

Trump State, USA 06/02/2008 05:29:05
Salmond is a spoiled child. Poor Baby should take his marbles and go home.
80

donald,

glasgow 06/02/2008 05:29:31
G on Alex. Make my day. Labour has had it's day. Put the Unionist Alliance into melt down and bring us one step closer to Independence.

Thig ar Latha!
Oor Day Will Come!
81

Grahamski,

Falkirk 06/02/2008 06:08:50
Mr Salmond, typically is full of empty threats and gallus bravado. He'll go to the country? Erm, not your decision Mr Salmond - it's parliament's, thank goodness democracy gets in the way of your more sinister behaviour. However that doesn't stop him shamelessly grandstanding, it's been a particular feature of his First Ministership. There is not a chance of resignation or a motion to dissolve the parliament. This is Mr Salmond's great political manouvering - like something out of Blazing Saddles, he puts a pistol to his head and says 'one move and the half-wit gets it'.....
82

Mark Renton,

Edinburgh 06/02/2008 06:14:56
Oh if only we could be so lucky. Who voted for this clown in the first place? Come on, stand up and be counted!
83

langtonian,

scotus 06/02/2008 06:19:59
Is the threat of resignation,by Alex Salmond not so much related to the SNP budget being passed,more to do with the coincedental attendance at the ongoing parliamentary investigation into "The Trump Affair", Trump's organisation team being grilled as to their part in the shennanigans surrounding the housing/golfing complex, Alex Salmond may have a dose of the "jitters"with regard to just what revelations could jepordise his cause.
84

Pilrig.,

Livingston 06/02/2008 06:26:12
85 - do you mean who voted for Salmond ?
Well I did. And do you seriously think I and the others who voted for him and the SNP are going to vote for Wendy and the other comedians next time time round ?
85

walter,

06/02/2008 07:01:26
#40 I would not decry proportional representation the SNP got into power through it with 26 seats.

The budget would have been passed even if no concessions were made, the SNP are on a high and with the Alexander affair going on none of the other parties want an election.
They want to leave the SNP in power for a whole term as they know that once the rhetoric and soundbites die away the SNP will be seen for what they are all words with no real action.
86

McMillar,

Fife 06/02/2008 07:03:29
A brave move but he can afford it given the lack of any credible opposition. There is a lot to be done and any petty blocking or delaying of the budget cannot be acceptable to anyone. Less of the games please and more delivery – from all.
87

Nova, ,

06/02/2008 07:17:14
I hope the vote is settled quickly this evening.

The England v Switzerland match is on BBC 1 Scotland tonight and I don't want it interfering with coverage of that.
88

Nova, ,

06/02/2008 07:19:30
#58 You idiot.

You can't even spell your name.
89

Nova, ,

06/02/2008 07:22:31
#88 you want an election and a referendum at the same time?

Don't you remember the fiasco on May 3rd last year?
90

Nova, ,

06/02/2008 07:33:07
How come the states gets Barack Obama and we get Alex the Bampot?
91

JulieAnn,

Stirlingshire 06/02/2008 07:45:37
In Alex Salmond we now have a first minister "fit for purpose", and one to be proud of. The MPs opposing his budget are merely trying to screw more money out of him. I hope he stands firm.



92

Karin M,

06/02/2008 07:48:03
98 so even after the whole donorgate jersey donation thing you still dont understand that the labour parody is supposed to raise legal money for their campaign and not taxpayers cas for elections. Do you know somehting we dont about labour election campaigns.
93

Karin M,

06/02/2008 07:49:30
99 quite right julie and if they dont vote for it we gt to show them how annoyed we are with them with an election.
94

Eugene john,

06/02/2008 07:57:47
You couldn't make him up could you. If wee Eck isn't prancing around spouting "pearls of wisdom" in his egoistical attempt to forward himself as a leading player in world politics he is blabbing like a baby and saying if you don't play ball with me I am going home and taking the ball with me. Its nothing short of emotional blackmail by a desperate main leading a failing political party.
95

Joe90,

06/02/2008 08:00:18
#91 Nova
This says it all! To you a friendly game of football featuring England is more important than Scotland's future! grow up!
96

Mikey,

06/02/2008 08:00:43
Most real Scots, i.e. those that want a democratic Scotland, would love to see an election now. I'd be very surprised however, to see the Labour Parody voting against the budget. Their bosses in London will be telling them to abstain in case they are decimated in the polls.....
97

Gdgy,

dundee 06/02/2008 08:01:40
Alec may be a smarmy meglomaniac but he has done a silly thing here. It looks like he's chucking the toys out of the pram. Wasting tax-payers cash on an ego trip - the parliament is either an expression of the will of the people or SNP shouldnot be in power. I reckon if the SNP cannot run the country, another party or coallition should be given the chance.
Re-election is by no means certain and the SNP has annoyed enough people to solidify the Labour and Green vote - and there is the question of Alec's involvement in the Trump affair???
98

eric,

Lothian 06/02/2008 08:01:45
And we think the unemployed are doing the country damage!
99

Boswall,

06/02/2008 08:03:29
That threat has all the weight of a SNP manifesto pledge!

Still, would be a great day for Scotland if he left office so on this occasion I hope he's sincere.
100

ddmc,

06/02/2008 08:10:32
the SNP have never been in a stronger position, nu labour are rife with sleaze & corruption, fib dems are useless, cons are still finding there feet & always face an uphiil battle in scotland. If there was a snap election called, I think the SNP would win a bigger majority, given the state of the 2 main opposition parties.
101

Eugene john,

06/02/2008 08:12:16
#108 Bob Christie

Pathetic. This article is about Scottish politics and all you can contribute is a snide remark about a football match. Says it all about the mentality of the average rabid SNP drones who frequent these forums.
102

Jings Crivens,

06/02/2008 08:22:35
My god I dispair for Scotland going my these messages from the SNP Supporters. Just aggression, abuse and meaningless driven. Just like a drunken Scot on a Saturday night.

I wonder does '4 - job' Salmond want an election now while he's still in the honeymoon period. Before all the sleeze, broken manefesto promises, etc gets recognised by the voters
103

Citylocal Fife,

Citylocal Fife News Room 06/02/2008 08:22:38
In some ways I'd like an election, but I don't think it will happen. I'm sure Labour know what the result wil be, so will have to accept the budget or lose quite a few seats.
104

Jings Crivens,

06/02/2008 08:26:57
110 Eugene john

Spot on John, i liken the SNP posters to the characters from Animal farm

- The sheep who just baa out the mantra from the pigs er I mean their leaders.
- Boxer the horse with hie blind trust in the pigs and his inability to see corruption

105

AJM,

06/02/2008 08:33:51
It is is true that Labour would not like an election now, probably none of the other parties would as well.
From their point of view they have seen a dreadful round of negotiation by Swinney, as once they knew how weak he was he has been pushed all the way, everyone would they not.

It is got so bad that AS has had to do this to draw a line in the sand and shout about an election. So far from a victory for the opposition they will keep this going as they can see how poor the ministers are and for as long as possible.
So for all the SNP crowing on here, it is the terrible skills of Swinney that put AS in a position of having to threaten an election. Remember it was AS that did a deal with the greens, so a budget such as this would go through, the fact that it has been handled so badly as got the SNP govenment speaks volumes of what we can expect from them.
The SNP have been shown to be a one man band, the only one with any political skill, but he has had to do this I suspect against his better judgment.
106

AJM,

06/02/2008 08:35:04
sorry about the typo
Swinney, as once they knew how weak he was he has been pushed all the way, everyone would, would they not?
107

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 06/02/2008 08:47:15
Hamish MacDonnell and his infammatory headlines again. The Salmond "quote" is nowhere to be seen in the article which appears to lay out the logical sequence of events in the case of the budget not going through.

I shall wait and see what happens at 1700 today. It will be interesting to see how many Labour abstentions there are. Wendy could be on trial here too.
108

Richard Head,

06/02/2008 08:49:47
Oh, Dear!
The toys are oot the pram.
109

AJM,

06/02/2008 09:00:09
#Alasdair, you point would have been far better if you had included the witless comments on every thread about Wendy, or other silly arguments put up by SNP drones.

If the SNP went to the polls, which they will not, with the country knowing it was all for an extra 2m for some small item, I doubt very much if that will be translated into a vote winning start to a campaign.
110

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 06/02/2008 09:11:12
Love him or hate him you have to admit that Salmond is a master tactician. The budget will go through and the best thing is that all of Labour's proposals will be kicked into touch. They have had their time in power and achieved nothing.
111

Proud2Be,

Scotland 06/02/2008 09:12:08
Political Masterpiece!!

If the numpties et al take the mick then we go to the polls and return the SNP with an increased majority. If the budget goes through the SNP, and Scotland, wins!!

Well done Alex!!
112

JimC,

Kilmarnock 06/02/2008 09:15:10
The Budget will be passed, Salmond simply gave notice that they had compromised as far as possible and would go no further. Old Margo got what she wanted yet like the little boy comes back asking for more, pathetic. The greens should take notice that sitting on the fence is not an option, this if it aint green Ah am no playing shows just how narrow minded they are. As for the Tories, you did ok folks now get those fingers on the button.
113

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

Edinburgh 06/02/2008 09:17:05
Yet again AS shows why he was voted Parliamentarian of the year by his peers. The man is simply a political genius nae wonder even the Rev Ian Paisley admires him.
You have just got to give credit where credit is due.
The Lab Lib pact cannot afford an election right now why do you think Gordon Brown bottled it recently with the UK elections.
I actually hope the budget fails and we get a new election there is a better than even chance the SNP will return with a majority government.
They will definately return with more seats its only a question of how many.
114

Farmernot,

oan ma traictor 06/02/2008 09:17:15
Ah Eck again demonstrates acute tactical awareness and with Wendy and Nocol fearing meltdown at an election there is no way they will not allow this budget through........brilliant move Eck......real in yer face politics...........your move Wendy et al
115

J J MAROONER,

KIRKCALDY 06/02/2008 09:19:17
#123

I am no Nationalist but I do have a sneaking admiration for Salmond, he must be the most able politician since Lyndon B Johnson (pre White House).

The Labour Party are going to have to have to find a leader Jack Mc was not up to it and neither is trendy Wendy.
116

pehman,

sussex 06/02/2008 09:20:17
The story as I've just heard it goes like this

Slab approached the SNP yesterday/ today and said they'll back the budget IF the SNP accept slabs program of apprentiseships

The SNP yes we would like to support this as a worthwhile proposal,

But we have no more cash to offer

So an agreement is reach whereby the apprentises scheme can go ahead in the future

Sorted------- No news leaks out that slab are preparing a press release saying that slab have snatched back the agenda--

Enter AS AND MAKES HIS BACK ME OR SACK ME Speech thus forcing slabs hand to do just that and keep the SNP agenda.

The SNP have made the concession ------- the ball is now in slabs court (no pun intended wendy)
If slab don't want an election, then they have a way out by supporting the apprentices
117

Xena - Warrior Princess,

06/02/2008 09:20:25
If the comments by the SNP supporters were made public, I honestly think they would lose any future election. "We will crush you" to the Unionists? Pathetic!
118

Nikostratos,

06/02/2008 09:20:29
ladees and Gentlemen for your entertainment and edification we have


............ALEX SALMOND................

the Conservatives, the Greens and Margo MacDonald incredible


.......................DANCING BEAR..................

Watch how he stands on his head and performs amazing feats of contortionism for their votes.

Hup..hup..hup on ya head Alex...that's it twist turn and know flip over.... hurrah

he'll resign..no dancing bears don't resign they just dance to their master tunes...hup..hup



119

Transparent?,

Scotland 06/02/2008 09:21:16
What further proof do you need that he's been lying about his popularity and that of the SNP?

No need to resign - if he really believes he will win an early election. He has taken the cowards way out to save his own ego.

We'll find out later today how many other cowards there are at Holyrood.
120

AJ Fife,

06/02/2008 09:21:18
A wee birdie told me, that in a recent survey amongst Labour MSPs, 73% of then stated they wished they had a leader like Alex Salmond.

There could be a rebellion within the Labour ranks, as the whole Parliament comes round to the just and sound policies of the SNP.
121

Duncan in Edinburgh,

06/02/2008 09:23:56
This is unsurprising from Salmond. He has been playing games since he got into power, and will continue to play games as long as it works for him. Fair enough. People understand the difference between a game player and a serious politician, and he is only making a rod for his own back.
122

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

Edinburgh 06/02/2008 09:26:11
127 AM2

Machiavellian would be taking our country into an illegal war without a plan to win it or even end it.

Machiavellian would be putting all of our energy sources into the hands of the Nuclear industry.

Machiavellian would be putting out your political policies to the highest bidder to top up party funding.

Machiavellian would be breaking the laws of the country you yourself created.

Machiavellian would be voting yourself a pay rise above inflation while fighting to keep everybody elses pay rises below inflation.

Machiavellian is NOT playing four aces to a Queen high.

Och I could go on and on but I am sure you get the picture.

123

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

Edinburgh 06/02/2008 09:29:51
132

Is this excuse for a newspaper posted on the WWW with all the NAT comments for all to see not public enough for you then
What is it with unionists and stupidity
124

Ayrshire Scot™,

06/02/2008 09:30:48
I wish they would go for it and finally put the boot in! Another year or 2 and we’ll have been well and truly rumbled…actually, we may have been rumbled already but it may be a case that it’s just not fed through to the polls, what with the distracting sleaze at Westiminster.
125

Colkitto,

River Clyde 06/02/2008 09:31:37
I would love another election.What have the SNP to be scared of ?
How would Wendy fair with all her recent troubles? Andy Kerr wouldn't be re-elected and neither would Nicol Stephen ! So it would benefit the SNP to have an election right now.Bring it on !!
126

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

06/02/2008 09:31:50
136

And just what would inspire somebody like you Duncan?
The reintroduction of slavery for all Scots within the UK perhaps?
127

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

06/02/2008 09:34:14
139 AM2

Aye and like everybody else he is entitled to his opinion he may even express it as Rhetoric if he likes so what?

What do you think the chances are that the SNP would lose an election if it where held say within the next 3 months or so?
128

Jonboy,

06/02/2008 09:34:45
I'd love there to be another election...especially one not organised by Wendy's diminutive brother...

Alex and his troops have done more than enough to convince Scotland they are the only party capable of running the country....

SNP would win an election right called right now by a landslide.....

129

Publius,

London 06/02/2008 09:35:33
The odds are that the SNP will get its budget through Parliament with or without Alex's threats of an election.... but an election campaign would be interesting, especially if it focused on government spending.
As Khruschev said 'the trouble with free elections is that you don't know who'll win'. Odds are that the SNP would win seats, but not enough for an overall majority, Labour would lose seats. But the Tories might win a few, of they focused on wasteful government spending.
130

Duncan in Edinburgh,

06/02/2008 09:35:40
#142 Yes, that's right. If I've said it once I've said it a hundred times: we need to reintroduce slavery for all Scots within the UK.

You prize turnip.
131

,

06/02/2008 09:36:31
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
132

Doh,

06/02/2008 09:36:39


The political situation is getting really tense.
The good folk on my bus were despertately baying for an election and wanted Salmond to be given full dictatorial powers until the country could put on a firm footing.

It's time to call in some Norwegian peacekeepers before the situation escalates into outright apathy.
133

,

06/02/2008 09:38:06
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
134

Senga Jean,

06/02/2008 09:39:06
#8 states my view. Dancing bears,playing games,dross ,ranter........no none of these. The SNP have a tough task and a greedy opposition is playing games with our future. I think Salmond is saying the extortionate price for your measly support is high enough. Scotland deserves better than these filchers. Independence looks a very good option. The money comes from our pockets not Westminster.
135

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

Edinburgh 06/02/2008 09:40:52
146 Duncan

Can you post the links where you have actually admitted this so many times previously?
I really didnt know I was being sarcastic.
A bit of play on your negativity and constant put down of everything Scottish. I actually didnt believe until now you believe in slavery or is it just slavering?
136

Steve,

Bo'ness 06/02/2008 09:41:51
The two faced petty backstabbing and blackmailing of the unionist parties will be their ultimate undoing, and if there is an election, Salmond and the SNP will come out even stronger than before. Beleive it.
Alex Salmond.. you are a tactical genius!

137

Duncan in Edinburgh,

06/02/2008 09:44:15
#152 Haha. Care to point to a SINGLE INSTANCE of me putting down everything Scottish? Otherwise, why don't you go and play somewhere else, you confused, naive wee laddie.
138

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

06/02/2008 09:45:32
150

Is Prof Curtis a seer? a time traveller perhaps? clairvoient maybe? or just another wishful thinker?

Of course it would where would be the debate if everybody agreed with one point of view? there would be no point in having a call in would there?

Is there actually any point to your posting or are you just spitting dummies oot yer pram?
139

Ananurhing,

06/02/2008 09:46:04
112# Jings Crivvens help ma boab what a cringe.

My the unionist troglodyte trolls are out in force today. You say the SNP posters are abusive and aggressive. You then indulge yourself in abuse and aggression.
The pro SNP posters on here mostly do so out of conviction and a desire to see their country move forward to something better.What's your agenda?

With the exception of AM2, there's not a unionist on here with anything to say. What is it you want? To go back to the days of labours hegemony? Why? Where's the benefit.

You and your like are laid bare for all to see. Bitter negative trolls with no vision, no imagination, and nothing relevant or progressive to say. A bit like the discredited obsolete union you're so desperately trying to shore up against the tide of positive politics. What are you loyal to? A cause? A belief? If so, spit it out and tell us what! What's you're vision for a progressive Scotland!
140

Hunky Dorey,

Glasgow 06/02/2008 09:47:08
# 1 Nova...... Who needs an Emperor or a king? Except maybe people like you who are of a peasant mind.Get up off your knees and stop holding on to mother England's apron strings.Loyalist is an other word for insecurity.
141

Ananurhing,

06/02/2008 09:47:28
And to prove my point...........HEEEEERE'S DUNCAN!!!!!
142

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

06/02/2008 09:47:33
154

A single instance of me putting down everything Scottish? have a good read of that sentence again and try and see the stupidity of that comment.

Priceless.
143

Duncan in Edinburgh,

06/02/2008 09:48:57
#159 You said I constantly put down everything Scottish. If it is constant, point to a single instance. Go on.
144

LKK252,

06/02/2008 09:51:16
Well, Salmond has finally thrown his toys out of the pram. A mark of a great leader!! Rather than negotiate a settlement in the interests of the Scottish people he has resorted to threats. Rather than demonstrating a confidence in the competence of his policies he is now running scared!
145

J J MAROONER,

KIRKCALDY 06/02/2008 09:52:21
151#

Sorry Senga it is Ringmaster Salmond that is playing games here - It is a master stroke no doubt about it and it really has wrong footed the rest of them, but I am certain the combined opposition will not get themselves into this mess again, a minority authority cant humiliate the majority to often.

146

AJ Fife,

06/02/2008 09:53:14
#160,

You've said some nasty things about the SNP for a start and they're Scottish!
147

Glaswegian,

Glasgow 06/02/2008 09:53:22

Leaving aside questions of policy and ideology, what strikes me about the majority of Unionist posters is that they appear unaware of how badly-damaged Labour and the Lib Dems are. Even outwith Nationalist circles it's generally acknowledged that Alex Salmond and the SNP are performing well in government. In contrast, the Labour/Lib Dem opposition has performed abysmally. The Tories under Annabel Goldie have been surprisingly effective. In politics, an inability or unwillingness to see what's staring you in the face is a potentially terminal weakness.
148

Upbeat,

06/02/2008 09:53:57
The words " Toys" and " pram" spring to mind. Hardly the cool calm and considered standard of behaviour previous generations have understood was prerequisite of political leadership.

Are we surprised ? Of course not. It would be funny if this was only a football manager, behving in a self important prima donna fashion. But this is the future of Scotland we are talking about. He should go and take his 'gang of six' with him, now..
149

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

Edinburgh 06/02/2008 09:54:43
160

Why? its in everything you post on these forums you yourself point to it with every comment.

On the other hand would you care to point out anything positive you have posted about Scotland on any of these forums? including anything positive about Scotland being in the union?
150

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

06/02/2008 09:56:45
165

????????????????????????????????? EH?
151

Duncan in Edinburgh,

06/02/2008 09:57:28
#163 Quite. That is I believe this idiot's argument. Oh dear.

#166 You made the allegation. You prove it or retract it.
152

Ananurhing,

06/02/2008 10:00:44
165# Upbeat???????? About what?
153

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

Edinburgh 06/02/2008 10:01:54
169

Prove it to who Duncan? You youself have already proved it for me with your posts there is nothing else needed now where are your positive comments regarding Scotland in or out of the union?
154

Thistledhu,

Fife 06/02/2008 10:03:47
Labour are realy in between a rock and a hard place, An election now would lead to the decimation of labour in scotland and they know it.

A' leader under criminal investigation

A parlimentry party group trying to stop a highly popular council tax freeze.

Lifting of Bridge tolls.


Im not a SNP Supporter but looks to me as if there holding all the cards.
155

Ananurhing,

06/02/2008 10:05:20
167#Clarry

Online I think.
156

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

06/02/2008 10:05:32
164

I dont actually believe that I believe they know and are fully aware they havent a leg to stand on. They post mostly simply as a wind up.
They contribute nothing positive to forward their own arguments only negativity against anything pushing the Independence point of view.
If they had any real belief or positive points of view they would have posted them. I havent seen any have you?
157

Miss H,

06/02/2008 10:05:45
21 I don't see why this is a bad tactic or indeed an 'extraordinary ultimatum' as Hamish McConnell describes it. It is neither a tactic nor an extraordinary ultimatum.

Voting down the Budget will not 'create serious problems'. If the SNP's Budget is not passed that is the end of the SNP Govermment. It's that simple. They cannot implement their programme of government unless their Budget is passed. So don't be in any doubt, the SNP Government will resign today if the Budget is not passed.

It would then be up to the remaining parties to form an administration within 28 days or there is automatically an election.
158

Ananurhing,

06/02/2008 10:08:37
167# Clarry

www.holyrood.tv/
159

Caligula,

06/02/2008 10:11:04
#173 clarry: isn’t think Holyrood TV must be scrambled in my place: it’s just never on, for some inexplicable reason!
160

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

Edinburgh 06/02/2008 10:11:29
177 Miss H

What do you think the chances are that the LAB LIBs and Tories would get together to form a unionist coalition government simply to break the Independence momentum? in the scenario you have just described.
161

Caligula,

06/02/2008 10:12:13
Holyrood TV! What kind of saddo would admit to watching that in any case? I always wondered where the Nats drew their fanatical support from!
162

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

06/02/2008 10:14:10
184

Yet it was AM2 who first provided the link.
Saddo indeed.
163

Ananurhing,

06/02/2008 10:16:14
183# Foulkes Off

No chance. Who would lead it?
164

Queen D,

Glasgow 06/02/2008 10:16:45
As far as i have observed,the only two parties in Holyrood who are working for the Scottish population ,are the Tories and the SNP.
The other two (I omit the Greens) appear to be working at undermining the elected Government aided and abetted by the media.
I'm sure that you would all agree that this is WRONG for Scotland and that ALL politicians should be working for US.
By the by, did anyone notice the report on Police activity down south? Apparently there are incredible hours of red tape,policemen behind desks and NOT on the streets. Westminster following Holyrood??
165

AJM,

06/02/2008 10:21:30
#177 Miss H
I do not think that it is a bad tactic, it is just that he has been forced into it by extremely poor Swinney, who has lost control of the negotiations. It is beginning to appear that there SNP are a one man band and he has to step in to sort out the budget mess, he did not have much off an hand to play.

I doubt whether AS would have wanted to play it now, over this issue. However once used he will find hard to use again as he will appear petulant.
166

celticsnowdrop,

06/02/2008 10:22:51
by giving the ULTIMATUM Salmon is getting on with the job and saving tax payers money AND moving on to the next business in hand....we have no time to dilly and dally, Scotland was built on chances and going against the odds. I don,t agree with all he does but then at least HE DOES SOMETHING.
167

BMeister,

06/02/2008 10:23:27
#147 Xena
The first time I read your post I thought you were referring to DiE
168

Il Penseroso,

Inveririe 06/02/2008 10:23:49
When will the pygmies in the other parties realise they are in opposition to a professional politician recognised NOT ONLY IN SCOTLAND.Big "clunking fist" Broon nor Tony "Arch Criminal" Blair wouldn't take him on either. His threat is a masterstroke in tactics. The LibDems ducked out of their chance to stay in a position of influence but "pea brained" Stephen and his coterie of "where is my mondeo" bottled it. Labour had to run to Westminster with a Sewell Motion to "help them make up their minds" or in real language "dae whit they were telt" when an awkward decision had to be made. The Tory team realising they had no chance,correctly milked it for all they were worth and got results. That is what coalition government is all about. But out of blind stupidity Labour think they can still dictate and the LibDems, well they are a bsted flush with pea brained Stephen guiding them to disaster! Salmond defied all the pundits and accurately priedicted the election result. He must know from all sources that if his threat is implemented he knows, and so do the SNP, that they would win hands down. Not all the lost votes last time would have gone to other parties. If the trend then was for the SNP it is conceivable that they would have won more seats.
169

Simon M,

Edinburgh 06/02/2008 10:23:58
Let's call Smug Eck's bluff. If he resigned there would not be a general election, there would be an election for another First Minister, where the SNP would more than likely get their choice. It says a lot about Salmond that I'd actually rather have Hatchet-face Sturgeon as FM than him.
170

Shredder,

06/02/2008 10:24:58
#184 Caligula: the same kind of saddo who avidly watches Newsnight Scotland and pinches themself to keep awake while the performing numpties deign to make an appearance! Now shut it!
171

John S,

06/02/2008 10:27:25
Mr Salmond would have to get a two-thirds majority for dissolving the parliament, or there would be a dissolution if his opponents failed to form an administration within 28 days.
Wendy could be our next FM before 2011 ?
172

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

06/02/2008 10:27:47
186

Good question! maybe they could elect a leader who is able to stay out of prison long enough to finish at least one term as FM.
They will probably have to recruit from outside of their respective parties though.
173

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

Edinburgh 06/02/2008 10:29:27
192

Welcome oh visitor from the Stars and whats it like on your planet? Can you get Corrie?
174

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

Edinburgh 06/02/2008 10:31:44
188

No he has been forced into it by the Scottish electorate only giving him a majority of 1 seat.
Another election at this time will certainly remedy this oversight.
I though that was obvious why didnt you?
175

Poisoned Bait,

06/02/2008 10:32:48
#193 Shredder: I prefer “The World Tonight” on the radio myself! To all you Nats, it's guaranteed to keep you up to speed on what’s going on throughout the world beyond Scotland (and guaranteed to give you a good night’s rest to boot!) It’s just not the same if you have to zap the remote before climbing into your jam jams!
176

Robb,

06/02/2008 10:33:19
What's all this talk of "toys out of prams"? As far as I can see, it's not a case of AS being childish, it's simply that if the budget is rejected, the Pariament has to dissolve. It's the way it goes, so what are people moaning about?
177

Mac the Proud Scot,

06/02/2008 10:34:06
Please please PLEASE everybody - get it right!

Salmond does NOT have the power to call an election. In a system of PR, where the minority governemnt stands down, for whatever reason, the opposition parties are then invited to see if they can form a government. They have 28 days. An election is only called if they fail to put together a coalition that has enough votes to elect a new 1st Minister. What if Labour and the Lib Dems went for another coalition agreement? They could then form a government could they not? Especially if they brought the Greens on board. Unlikely, maybe, but not inconceivable.

Salmond is playing games as usual. He'll get the budget through and he knows it, otherwise why all the backstage trading with the Tories, etc.?
178

Simon M,

06/02/2008 10:36:07
#201 You don't know what you are talking about. The Parliament does not dissolve if the budget is rejected. Salmond has tried to create that impression with his brinkmanship, but it's utter nonsense. Don't believe everything you are spoon-fed by Eck and his spin doctors.
179

Miss H,

06/02/2008 10:36:58
202 Everybody knows this including the First Minister. Nowhere does he say 'I will call an election'.
180

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

Edinburgh 06/02/2008 10:38:06
202

Who is claiming that Salmond would call an election?
The situation is plain as day the present cabinet could resign forcing an election if another cabinet cannot be formed by the other parties.
Do you think the other 3 major parties can get together to form a coalition government? and as Ananurhing pointed out who would lead it?
181

Miss H,

06/02/2008 10:39:36
203 Possibly he knows better than you. If the SNP Government stands down, parliament has 28 days to elect an new first minister and cabinet. First Minister Wendy Alexander anyone? How many people will vote for that? No - if the Budget falls there will be an election.
182

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

Edinburgh 06/02/2008 10:40:24
203

Actually we are being spoon fed this scenario by Hamish the Red see above.
Do you people actually read these stories before you comment?
Doh!
183

gus1940,

Edinburgh 06/02/2008 10:46:54
Yet another one who doesn't know the meaning of decimate.
184

J J MAROONER,

KIRKCALDY 06/02/2008 10:49:53
#188

You are correct the electorate only granted him a 1 seat majority because most Scots do not want a Nationalist Government.

I have to admit though he really has wrong footed the opposition on this one. I am also certain the Nats will prevail today.

Ultimately I beleive it is a bad move on the FMs part weak as they are at present the opposition will take revenge for this they have the joint numerical strength to avenge this should they choose.
185

Fairplayforruralscotland,

Braemar 06/02/2008 10:52:09
If he goes 'to the country' he'll come out with a bigger majority! Labour know it and the budget will go through.
186

Doh,

06/02/2008 10:53:33
#208

Just in case the Norwegian peacekeepers fail to turn up to seperate the squablling factions in the Scottish Parliament - I think we need a interim leader that commands the respect of the SNP and the unionists.

Step forward - Annabel Goldie, not just an ordinary politican but stateswoman with a towering intellect, almost equal to Scotlands "lost" leader Ecky Trump.

Step forward - Annabel - the SNP love you.
187

kimba,

06/02/2008 10:54:49
One can only hope!
188

All Politicians are the same,

Scotland 06/02/2008 10:57:37
If he resigns and stands again will the ballot paper say something like "2nd time lucky Salmond for first minister".
The budget should get through but if it doesnt it would really serve him rigt if he spends 3 years in opposition to a unionist coalition.
189

HZ,

06/02/2008 11:00:16
Salmond's latest petulant outburst has once again proved that this man is no more than an overgrown schoolyard bully. His resignation, as if he really has the nerve, could only be a good thing for Scotland.

But he didn't have the grace to rehold the last election, so narrowly ‘won’, despite the large number of spoilt papers - so why should anyone believe that this egotistical little man would now voluntarily give up his tenuous grip on power. Perhaps his faith in the Scottish people is not quite what he would have us believe – perhaps behind all the braggadocio, he actually credits us with the intelligence not to make the same mistake quite so quickly.
190

Winters,

06/02/2008 11:01:05
Bill,Dunblane #6
I fully agree with you about the awful music. I don't see any point in it and it's far too loud, especially at night.
191

Florence,

Edinburgh 06/02/2008 11:02:41
Salmond is right to threaten resignation. If the budget doesn't go through, how on earth could they possibly carry through their agenda? It would be an untenable situation.
192

,

06/02/2008 11:02:53
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
193

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

06/02/2008 11:04:20
215

Nope the majority didnt vote for anybody. That comes from decades of neglect by the previous elected officials disenfranchising most of the electorate by pushing Westminster policies which make them poorer with wage increases below inflation increasing their tax burdens exponentially and breaking the law with inpunity at every chance.
What Scotland desperately needs is fundamental change which can only come with Independence but its these undecided and dont want to know voters that have to be convinced which is difficult as they have rightly learned not to trust politicians.
They have to be shown there is a better chance of getting at least some of their way within Independence which they have no chance of getting from Westminster simply because Westminster doesnt need their vote.
With Independence these voters will be a majority but within the UK they are only a cry in the wilderness.
It really is that simple.
194

Conan the Librarian™,

I am the one in ten. 06/02/2008 11:05:43
High stakes...Has Wendy and the LibDem one, whatshisname have the b@lls?
195

Nikostratos,

06/02/2008 11:06:03
What Alex still here then Oh dear what a surprise..the bung is is the snp know that..cost the taxpayer a pretty penny but was worth it for the snp to survive .
so Alexs says
....trump..aviemore....and now the other buyable opposition parties..a bit of a trend emerging here don't you know.................If only the snp could sell scottish lordship titles.......they will find summat i'm sure
196

Thatcher's love child,

06/02/2008 11:06:25
I would certainaly like to see another election.

I think the people in charge, the electorate, need their say on a great many things. Predominately the two biggest hinderances to Scotland functioning beneficially within the United Kingdom - those being the Labour Party and the Scottish National Party.

I think it would spell the end for Wendy Alexander, no bad thing even if the SNP picked up a few more votes.

I also think the electorate would return a great many more votes for the Conservatives and the Liberals. Whose joint contribution to the parliament greatly exceeds that of the SNP and Labour. Their forte seems to be gesture politics and public slagging matches in the ragloids - why the electorate finds that a good selling point is beyond me.
197

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

Edinburgh 06/02/2008 11:06:29
224

The SNP are willing to put their money where their mouth is by publically telling you they will resign if the budget isnt put through forcing an election because they know not just think they will win more seats.
Stop living in denial at least in public.
198

Gothic Rose,

06/02/2008 11:06:53
148#Doh :))) Oh yes we live in interesting times.:)
199

Florence,

Edinburgh 06/02/2008 11:07:22
187 : QUEEN D: I am convinced the Labour and Lib Dems in the Scottish Parliament are ruled by London. I don't think they make a move without their masters' say-so.
A very foolish and damaging decision by the Lib Dems who are now a joke in Scotland.
200

Ayrshire Scot™,

06/02/2008 11:07:39
What’s the fuss all about anyway? Everyone knows the Tories are only too happy to prop us up! It’s all a myth that we share policies with the Libs: we have far more in common with the Tories and they’ll see us alright if they know which side their bread’s buttered on!
201

J J MAROONER,

KIRKCALDY 06/02/2008 11:09:03
Anyway ladies and gentleman - I usually just comment on the football sites where I am now going to return to - we debate the real issues of the day such as - is Vladamir Romanov insane, was Mixu Paatelainen the inspiration behind Shrek?

I will leave the debate on this site to all you clever people.

PS - ALEX CANT BE THAT BAD HE IS A JAMBO
202

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

Edinburgh 06/02/2008 11:09:22
228

So have you anything positive to say regarding the other political parties to justify your abhorance of the SNP?
Its obvious what your against now tell us what you are for.
203

marmalade sandwich,

perthshire 06/02/2008 11:10:31
Salmond is threatening to throw his rattle out of the pram like a spoilt child, if he does not get his way.

It is unstatesman-like, and won't do him any favours.

And are we to see this tactic used again when the going gets a little tough?
204

Earnst Blofeld,

06/02/2008 11:11:47
Right, own up: what happened for the "Independence will let Scotland be global peacemaker" thread to be closed down last night? Go there and you'll see that the Scotsman have "done a Herald" on it! All the usual troublemakers were on last night, so who was responsible? Let me have your theories before this thread goes the same way!
205

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

Edinburgh 06/02/2008 11:12:35
233

The SNP have nothing in common with the Tories.
The Tories have their eye on the UK general elections and are opposing and undermining Labour at every opertunity thus voting with the SNP for minor concessions.
Isnt it obvious?
206

Mikey,

06/02/2008 11:14:55
An election cannot be called unless another FM is elected within 28 days of AS standing down. What's the betting that the budget gets through and a load of SLAB boys abstain?

The SLAB boys have their noses in the trough and know that they would take a beating if an election had to be called!

Jackie Baillie back on benefits? The mind boggles!
207

boudica,

Glasgow 06/02/2008 11:15:35
Wee Eck shows once again what a Chancer he is ...and I doubt he would resign ..Just like his 1 check Eck promise among others and he doesnt want to upset all those Future SNP supporters and their families ..You know the Thousands of Students with a PHD in Curry Making ,Waiting Tables etc , All the vital Skills that Scotland so desperately needs and I think they call those Domestic Science Colleges "Madrasses"..
208

Thatcher's love child,

06/02/2008 11:19:16
238 FOtC

I think it is the efficiency targets the SNP have in common with the tories. It's a popular policy and I'm pleased to see Scotland willingly accepting this political philosophy more and more.

Ayrshire Scot is correct, the Tories will most likely vote through the budget because of this.

Although as a footnote, I'd like to mention the SNP plans, like many of their policies are pie in the sky. Swinney's efficency targets are higher than the Conservative's at their most ruthless. Meaning they will unachievable.

Lower taxation is another element of common ground, again popular but another theoretical novelty from the SNP. With all that spending they are burning the candle at boths ends.

Let's hope for another election. The SNP have done Scotland a great favour in smashing Labour's hold, but it's time to admit defeat for them and hand over their successes in reintroducing the concepts that shuggie and kylie cannot rely on the state to offer them jobs, free cash, houses and so on to the Tories who will be better at moving these popular policies on.
209

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

Edinburgh 06/02/2008 11:20:31
240

If he fails to resign as stated then that would be a political coop to his opponents.
So whats his motive for bluffing what does he gain?
Nothing!
210

Shredder,

06/02/2008 11:22:47
#237 Earnst: “Thatcher’s Love Child” (aka the poster formerly known as Toryboy, although he may have regained that infamous moniker following the changeover) was sounding off for some time last night, so look no further! There again, the master and friends were also much in evidence, as were the “Bird of Prey” and friends. Why don’t we all agree to be sensible on this thread, before commenting is withdrawn from all political threads whatsoever!
211

Neil,

Glasgow 06/02/2008 11:22:50
Alex would be costitutionally bound to resign if the budget fell & since it is difficult to conceive of an alternative bearing in mind that the leader of the opposition dare not appear in public, an election would follow. However the fact that he has left it to this late date to point this out sugests he is quite certain that he has a majority for it.

I suspect Wendy & Nicol will be even happier at this than Eck.
212

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

Edinburgh 06/02/2008 11:26:05
242

All of your suppositions are based on Scotland within the UK not Independent. An Independent Scotland can acheive much higher efficiency targets than they ever could stiffled within the UK.
And full control over Tax revenues instead of the Barnett formula is an obvious advantage in allowing Tax cuts.
Maybe thats why the SNP's fundamental policy is Independence. Once thats acheived then everything else falls in line. Without it its just same ol same ol.
213

Thatcher's love child,

06/02/2008 11:27:58
244 Shredder

Wasn't me I'm afraid to say. I was posting on topic, I think a total of 6 posts or something, but pleased to hear they made an impression.

As regards me previously using other names, again sorry to dissapoint. Logged on for the first time yesterday and will only ever use this name.

You could be right about the others though, I was flamed a few times for legitimate posts - but these cretins are best ignored.
214

,

06/02/2008 11:29:06
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
215

morris,

edinburgh 06/02/2008 11:32:50
71
I think you are correct.The opposition will stage manage this so Salmond scrapes home by the narrowest of margins.They are actually afraid of a re run,and its in their interests to keep the SNP in power because the New Labour and Liberal parties will definitely get their butts kicked AND THEY BOTH KNOW IT
216

kimba,

06/02/2008 11:33:28
233.That sounded like a threat,do you know something the scottish tories don't!
217

Ayrshire Scot™,

06/02/2008 11:34:39
#238 Foulkes Off the Cybernat: there are none so deaf as those that cannot hear! Haven’t you noticed all the back door Tory type tax cuts: prescription charges and the council tax freeze! Haven’t you heard all the pro business noises? It’s not just the poster formerly known as Scottish Toryboy who’s given himself a new lease of life by calling himself “Thatcher’s Love Child”: the Tartan Tories are back in all!
218

Mac the Proud Scot,

06/02/2008 11:36:05
It would be fascinating to see what would happen if Salmond did resign. It's possible the Lib Dems and Labour could come together again and govern for the next three years. If they couldn't agree on a coalition and there was an election, I wouldn't be too sure the Scottish people would be so happy about going to the polls so soon. History is littered with the failed election campaigns of leaders who have forced an election soon after the previous one. People usually don't like it and they tend to punish the perpetrator. If there was an election, there's absolutely no guarantee that the SNP would do as well as their supporters think.

But all this is academic, because there won't be an election. The Tories will see Salmond right, and even if they don't and Salmond resigns there will be a very strong incentive for the opposition parties to successfully form an administration.They certainly don't want an election.

By the way, it's the SNP spin doctors who have been telling the press, eroneously, that Salmond will go 'to the people' if his budget fails. They're the ones talking this up. They're playing with fire!
219

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

Edinburgh 06/02/2008 11:39:18
248

He can do this as often as he likes as long as he is confident his party will win an election.
Why am I being forced to state the obvious so many times?
I am not a Tory I abhore the Tories as right wing self serving facists. If I believed the SNP were in any shape or form related to the Tories I wouldnt give them the steam off my Sh*te let alone my vote.
New Labour are now so close the the Tories you couldnt get an American express card between their Ideologies.
Its why all of the major Tory media have supported New Labour under Blair for the last 10 years.
This old Tartan Tory crap is a myth created in the 70s by Labour when Labour was a left wing party and the majority of Scotland were left wing fundamentalists.
It just rings hollow now that Labour are New Labour or old Tory.
220

boudica,

Glasgow 06/02/2008 11:40:00
The World is heading for a recession and Eck wants Tax cuts, Council Tax Freezes etx ...Popular but not realistic .. ...What like Wee Eck do you think that all this will miss Scotland ..right just like the Terrorist wouldnt dare touch Scotland ..Yep that one Flew right out of the Window didnt it ..The only Union the Scottish People want out of is the European Union ..But No Wee Eck wants to keep in that one ...once again it shows .he had no intention of ever Listening to what the Scottish People want ..He Paid £48.000 on His oneside convesation on Independance and Strugeon lied in Parli saying they got 400 replies when in fact she had to tell the truth that it was only 50 .. He has done that many U Turns on His manifesto and all his Lies are catching up with him ..and you think the Scottish People dont care ? well they do ..all Wee Eck is is a Chanty Rasstler of this first order ..We have been their done that and all we want is People who dont gives us anymore Flannel and Wee Eck has failed on that even quicker than any other Party , he started doing UTurns in less that a few weeks once he got the Job and I hope all Parties Rap up using Spin Doctors and instead try telling us the Truth ..We can take it ..
221

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

Edinburgh 06/02/2008 11:40:26
253

Labour and the Libs wouldnt be enough to form a Government they would need the Tories as well.
Get a grip!
222

morris,

edinburgh 06/02/2008 11:42:12
248

You will have the real thing just as soon as Broon is flushed away at Westmonster.The problem is SCOTLAND WILL NOT STAND FOR ANOTHER TORY GOVERNMENT.

It will break the Union in two!
Labour would have nowhere to hide .They would have to back independence or face annihilation in Scotland.The Labour(Scotland) activists will not accept defeat without major changes following that defeat. The only sad part is that they have to be knocked down before they realise theres a bus coming!

YOu just dont get it do you.We live in a democracy and the majority decide what happens.

Its not about whether Scotland would be better ripped off by a Tory governmnet or a Labour governmnet,

Its about whether we should allow ourselves to be ripped off ever again!
SCOTLAND IS LEAVING THE UK Get used to the idea.
The debate is by what route and when.
223

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

Edinburgh 06/02/2008 11:42:54
251

If that were true then why are the SNP so far apart from Labour? are you telling us that Labour are a left of centre party?
224

Shredder,

06/02/2008 11:43:06
#247 Thatcher’s love child: sorry if this really is a case of mistaken identity, but a poster known as “Scottish Toryboy” was banned a about a year ago for posting inappropriate images and he has resurfaced ever since, most notably under the moniker “Scottish Toryboy is back”. I shall await further developments before passing judgment.
225

boudica,

Glasgow 06/02/2008 11:44:53
Tartan Tories suit them ..they said they would never work with the Tories and the Liars are so far up Goldies Ass it is sickening ...They seem to change their " Principles " at the drop of a hat ....and have the cheeck to think no one will notice ...
226

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

Edinburgh 06/02/2008 11:48:36
261

Actually you will find it is the Tories working with the SNP not the other way around it is the SNP who are in power or didnt you notice?
The Tories will do anything and sleep with anybody if it undermines Labour at the next UK general election keep that in mind before you spout off.
Have you got anything postive to say about any of the other political parties or are you just another negative SNP poster with no convictions.
227

awhl,

the kraal dumfries 06/02/2008 11:53:49
Last time I posted on the herald I was flamed by John Sheridan of the Blue bottle SNP who thought us doonhamers lived in Kraal's hence the location. I think the BBC had this right this is a stunt to get Alex back in the London papers where he likes to be. He knows the Tories and greens will back him, in the tory case it is obvious as they are fiscally and economically aligned ideologically. As for the greens it make sno sense as they should want a new election. With "Alex Salmond" for first minister taken off the list votes they will do much better and we will have the pluralistic parliament that Donald Dewar, Gordon Brown and Tony Blair and the Scottish Convention intended. Has any one noticed how much rancour and game playing is coming out of the current administration? The old parliament quietly got on with its job. The economy was great, loads of families lifted out of poverty sensible governance. Now it is like a soap opera- much more entertaining but is politics for entertainment or the good of the country?
228

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

06/02/2008 11:54:38
256

So what do you want massive tax increases? is that why you want to remain in the union? do you work for the Inland revenue by any chance?
229

Ayrshire Scot™,

06/02/2008 11:56:51
#259 Foulkes Off the CyberNat: Labour are showing distinct signs of moving to the left, just as Salmond is good at talking left but acting right. You should read Labour’s alternative budget and its plans to eliminate water charges for pensioners, establish 100 skills academies and provide nursery places for vulnerable two-year-olds have been rejected by Holyrood's finance committee. Meanwhile, what are we getting from the Nats when it comes to promoting social justice? Oh, let me think, there’s the council tax freeze!
230

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

06/02/2008 11:58:24
263

Are you for real?

The old parliament quietly got on with its job. The economy was great, loads of families lifted out of poverty sensible governance.

The old Parliament quietly got on with its job because the same political party was in charge in both Parliaments in other words the Scottish Parliament did exactly what Westminster told it to do without question including giving up 1 Bn in funds it was entitled to.

Great economy? families out of poverty? sensible governence?
Is that why the SNP won the election then?
231

Sanny,

Glasgow 06/02/2008 11:59:31
124 & 127 AM2: - There you go again; idiot boy! Ego driven? Try reading your own interminable contributions to these columns. You mistake an intellectual analysis of a situation for an ego; whereas your own desire to shine among the unthinking Labour plebs demonstrates your own ego.

As for Machiavellian, this is more appropriate to your good self, or is an attribute that Wendy would dearly love to have. Unfortunately for her that requires intelligence. I believe connaughtboy may be nearest the mark in describing AS as a Master Tactician. In my post at 71 I described him as a Chess Master, if you read my post you will see why.

139 AM2: - You really are scraping the bottom of the barrel in quoting a member of the UUP! And Burnside is despicable in quoting a throw away remark in a casual discussion. I suppose these days we have to get used to trolls such as yourself clutching at straws.

150 AM2: - Being a Professor does not change the fact that Curtice is a Labour hack with tunnel vision. His opinions are so biased as to be virtually worthless. Can’t you think for your self AM2?

206 AM2: - NOW who’s throwing the toy out of the pram?


213 AM2: - What has clarry’s grievances got to do with the cause of Nationalism. Even someone of moderate intelligence would have understood these to be National not Nationalist complaints. Perhaps in the Labour Utopia you believe these problems do not exist?

I think I've had enough of AM2 for one day.




232

morris,

edinburgh 06/02/2008 12:00:38
261

You (and most of your city) would do well to realise that a Tory government is going to be elected at Westminster and guess which stupid numpty party will be resonsible ! ITS not the SNP you dolt!
At least the Tory voters will elect the party of their choice! You will get the opposite (you already did it for 18 years and that included Thatcher).

You really need to open your eyes . The Labour party died along with John Smith, and NEW LABOUR are the party which exists now. Why do you think they called them "New" ?Its not to draw attention to the fact that they are still ths same is it ?DOH!


Its because its a right of centre party and if you have not noticed that you have no place decrying others for anything!
233

Splashy,

06/02/2008 12:03:28
265. Are you a MacDonald's graduate?
234

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

06/02/2008 12:04:16
265

How is that then? by going to war? cash for Honours?
Cash from illegal doners? or by pushing polices suitable only to big business interests ie IR35 and its offspring.
Labour doesnt have a fully costed alternative budget its in all the news funnily enough just not in any of Hamish's columns.

235

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

Edinburgh 06/02/2008 12:05:14
269

Oh! comedian ay?
236

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

Edinburgh 06/02/2008 12:08:56
265

Please tell me you are not stupid enough to try and push a New Labours left of centre credentials here in public?
237

Sanny,

Glasgow 06/02/2008 12:12:15
266 :Foulkes Off the CyberNat: -

I think if you check the EU statistics you will find that Scotland comes close to the bottom in the poverty stakes; despite being the most resource rich country, per head of population, in Europe. You will also find we are unique in having a population that is shrinking whereas all other European populations have been growing for the last 50 years.

Most of these stats were published and referenced on the Herald Forum until they “accidentally” wiped out the whole section on “The State of the Nation”.

Let’s hope that the Unionists make the mistake of ‘going to the country’. With Independence we can start the recovery from 300 years of servitude!
238

Splashy,

06/02/2008 12:12:27
274. I think he meant Labour's credentials like illegal wars, Trident, tuition fees, means testing benefits for the elderly, pro nuclear, MacDonalds A-levels, cash for peergages, sleaze and an unhealthy subservience to Rupert Murdoch as Labours left-ish credentials?

Or maybe he meant that Labour have gone so far right, they have gone through the verr back of 'right' and are now approaching 'left' from the other side, have circumnaviagted the politcal sphere?
239

S'me,

Edinburgh 06/02/2008 12:13:21
its quite funny watching wee fat Alex play grown up politics at last... all the things he loved to do in oppostion now coming back to bite him on the bum...
240

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

Edinburgh 06/02/2008 12:13:43
275 AM2

Dont make me laugh.

And you no doubt are also left of centre in your views including youre anti Islamic rhetoric is that right?
241

Arfur,

06/02/2008 12:13:47
This is a very clever move by Salmond.

Labour certainly do not want another election at this time because the amount of seats they hold would only go down.

Lib Dem would get some of Labours votes but not enough to be of any threat to SNP.

Greens would not want to lose the seats they have managed to claim.

Tory would be about what they are at now (not very much) after an election.

It is not far off a win win situation.

(1) No one wants to go to a vote so the budget goes through
(2) if not the others will never agree to a new first minister
(3) If it goes to an election SNP would most probably get back in with more seats if not a majority government.

Very clever.
242

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

Edinburgh 06/02/2008 12:14:44
276

Ahem!
243

Splashy,

06/02/2008 12:15:29
275 Left of which centre? The Thacther-Reagan-Pincochet centre for advanced political spinning?
244

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

06/02/2008 12:15:38
281

Sorry I meant Amen! I am still pis**ng myself laughing at AM2.
245

morris,

edinburgh 06/02/2008 12:16:23
269

Im delusional hahahahah

Im not the one who thinks Maggie Broon can win at Westmonster am I ?
246

Roberta Burns,

06/02/2008 12:16:40
276 Sanny,Glasgow

'...Scotland comes close to the bottom in the poverty stakes' You won't find a London Scottish MP or his mates on that list.

275# AM2 If new labour was left of centre there would have been no point in calling it 'new' and it would still have the support of left-leaning voters.

A tory is a tory by any other name.
247

Splashy,

06/02/2008 12:18:33
269. Makes you wonder why unionists keep opposing a referendum? On one hand they say independence has little support (demonstrating the typical unionist urge to speak on behalf of everyone) and on the other they refuse a democratic vote? You might think they were scared, disingenuos or just squirming?
248

Roberta Burns,

06/02/2008 12:19:06
261 boudica,Glasgow - I always believed the SNP to be tartan tories - and they were. Alex Salmond has changed this perception in most people's minds. But, cosying up with the tories in Holyrood will do not them no good whatsoever. Just like it hasn't helped the new labour party.
249

Media 1,

cape town 06/02/2008 12:20:06
Scotland could be saved from the clutches of this maniac today! Lets hope he does go.
Thing is, he is not a man of his word, so even if the budget is not passed he will stay, and employ some new excuse as to why he had to stay!
The man is not equipped to run a government, neither is his party. He is cracking, he cannot handle the pressure, and he isnt under any by comparison to the pressures that real politicians with real issues are under!
It gets more cringeworhty by the day!
250

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

Edinburgh 06/02/2008 12:22:16
282

As if you deserved better but no I am full of debate have you got anything worth debating for a change?

"Anti-terror, anti-Sharia. Not anti-Islamic. Is smears all you've got?"

Crap all references you post to terrorism include the word ISLAM not SHARIA ISLAM only ISLAM showing youre utter contempt for the entire belief not just a small fundamentalist idea within it.
Youre not alone in this rhetoric but youre one of the few you cry foul when you perceive the same rhetoric directed against unionists.
Hypocrite is one of the nicer lables you deserve.
So quit yer whinging and try debating.
Why dont you start by telling us what you believe in and why you think the union is so good for Scotland?

251

Ayrshire Scot™,

06/02/2008 12:22:31
#271 Foulkes Off the Cybernat: some Nat you are! It’s the Holyrood parliament we’re talking about here, so going to war has nothing to do with it. I repeat: look at Labours alternative budget if you want to see how we’re far to the left of the SNP now. By the way, as a SNP supporter, you’re a fine one to talk about proposals that aren’t fully costed. Haven’t you heard of all the SNP’s broken promise’s? Everyone else has!
252

Splashy,

06/02/2008 12:24:21
Are Labour going to claim budgetary and financial expertise in the budget debate today? When they can't administer simple donations to themselves without admitting to breaking the law 120 times, have their own PM label them as "incompetent" and incur multiple criminal investigations? Do they expect us to take their money management skills seriously while they are being investigated for criminality and keep trotting out administrative incomptenece as their excuse?
253

Sanny,

Glasgow 06/02/2008 12:24:36
275 AM2: - Come now AM.2 even you can no longer believe the Labour party is left of centre, nor have they been since the days of Kinnock. Under New Labour the party has moved well to the right of centre and is now the new Tory party. In my humble opinion the Tory party is now slightly to the left of New Labour

254

Splashy,

06/02/2008 12:25:59
294 Are you trying to tell us Labour have produced a competent budget for £32bn when they couldn't account properly for £950 donations and some Big Macs?
255

Gothic Rose,

06/02/2008 12:26:28
254# Oh Mario,Things will get better.xxx
256

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

Edinburgh 06/02/2008 12:27:06
294

Oh come on! youre not trying to seperate the Scottish New Labour Party from the UK New Labour party now are you?
Whats the matter are you ashamed of the Westminster branch?
257

kimba,

06/02/2008 12:27:19
258."SCOTLAND WILL NOT STAND FOR ANOTHER TORY GOVERNMENT",says who.
258

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 06/02/2008 12:28:23
#127 AM2

You may be right. I suppose the same can be said of most leaders. Tony Blair is a great example. His Narcissistic personality made him an incredibly dangerous man but when he became PM very few people were aware of his disorder.

Back to the subject of Salmond, I think he will be remembered as a far more influential politician than the late Donald Dewar whose achievements were greatly exaggerated.

Only time will tell, but right now Salmond has an extremely high level of public support.
259

Splashy,

06/02/2008 12:28:47
301. Was a shame "Scottish" Labour were not allowed to appoint their own General Secretary without approval from the London NEC, wasn't it? Shows Labour's approach to devolution.
260

ImSparticus,

06/02/2008 12:28:50
May the Gods Bless Alex Salmond... As surely the `Voters will ..and of course the Unionist Parties know it. The Budget is as good as through.

261

boudica,

Glasgow 06/02/2008 12:29:41
So you say it is the Tories who are working with the SNP and not the other way round ..so when the SNP give into the demands of the Tories to gain their support in Parli ..That isnt working with them ? that isnt giving into them ..Something that the SNP vowed they would never do under any circumstances..
262

Splashy,

06/02/2008 12:29:45
302 says the poster at 258 clearly. Perhaps you could take up a remedial class at MacDonalds?
263

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

06/02/2008 12:29:56
300 AM2

Is this every comment you have ever posted regarding Islam and terrorism then?
I seem to remember reading a whole lot more in fact you are quite passionate on the subject and very clear in youre condemnations.
No doubts expressed in youre views on Islam at all.
264

morris,

edinburgh 06/02/2008 12:30:46
294

Have you heard of Westmonster?

Theres a right of centre government in power there,and its still going to get its numpty butt kicked, and replaced by a REAL TORY government, and guess whose numpty supporters will be responsible for putting it there ?Thats it WELL DONE
NUmpty LABOUR
265

Shave,

Edinburgh 06/02/2008 12:31:36
#295
"The Greens: Carpet baggers? Opportunists? or what?"

Or - using the (limited) power invested in them by the electorate to full effect.
266

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

Edinburgh 06/02/2008 12:31:48
307

And you know a better way for a minority government to get its budget passed? apart from forcing another election of course?
Do you think they should have done a deal with Labour instead? maybe offer Wendy a get out of jail free card?
267

JamesC,

London 06/02/2008 12:34:05
What a sad country Scotland is becoming.
We get rid of one egomaniac in McConnell,who can save Malawi but cannot keep our hospital's clean.
We replace him with another egomaniac,who so far this week has said that he wants Scotland to take over from the UN.
And wants Scotland to go back to being one of the world's wealthiest countries.
That is with 25 percent of the workforce in the public sector.
How can anyone take this guy seriously?
Another overpaid Public sector buffoon,who has no idea what it takes for ordinary family's to get by.
Please do us a favour and resign.


268

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

Edinburgh 06/02/2008 12:36:31
313

The question you should be asking is how can anybody take you seriously?
Have you so little self esteem you have to display your mental incompetance publically?
269

kimba,

06/02/2008 12:37:37
308. didn't know he was the voice of scotland,or maybe he,s just a jumped up tw-t.
270

boudica,

Glasgow 06/02/2008 12:38:13
And as for being Negative about the SNP ...They havent given me any reason to be positive for very long so far as when I do begin to get some positive feeling about them ..I have felt let down and unlike other Parties it didnt take years for that it only took a couple of weeks as I have said ..we are fed up with Politicians promising things they know they cannot deliver and the SNP lied to the Electorate from the Start ...and that wont be forgotten ..unlike you we have learned that some socalled " Principled " leaders are not too be trusted as I said sometimes that takes us years to find out ..But Wee Eck has shown us that in record time ..he cannot be trusted end of story
271

Shave,

E 06/02/2008 12:38:27
#312
Of course a deal with Labour is out of the question. They should (and are) making a deal with the party they are most closely politically aligned to - the Tories.
272

Ayrshire Scot™,

06/02/2008 12:38:37
#302 Kimba: scotland really seems to like its new SNP government, so why does everyone think that a new Tory government nationally won't go down well: its the next best thing after all. First the Tartan Tories then the real Tories, tis but a small step! There in it together!
273

Ayrshire Scot™,

06/02/2008 12:38:48
#302 Kimba: scotland really seems to like its new SNP government, so why does everyone think that a new Tory government nationally won't go down well: its the next best thing after all. First the Tartan Tories then the real Tories, tis but a small step! There in it together!
274

G,

dndy 06/02/2008 12:38:54

The SNP make big promises to get elected.
The SNP fail to work out a budget.
The SNP backtrack on promises
The SNP fail to work out a budget
The SNP fail to get support for budget.
The SNP promises to resign if he doesn't get his way.
Salmond fails to see that forcing a costly election to suit his purposes will fail to impress those not blinded by SNP fervour.
SNP fails....

Has he gone yet?
275

Alan B,

06/02/2008 12:39:19
It is possibly abit of a risky strategy by AS but it is good for the country that we have a leader showing some strength and decisiveness. for me it is better to put up or shut up. We have had for too long leadership like blair where it is all about power. the whole lib -lab coalition seemed more about power of the parties and its personell rather than any political ideology.

The tories i think come out best from this. They seem to be a party that is willing to act maturely, trying to influence the budget rather than scupper it. We were constantly told by the press the lib dems are very close to the snp in policy terms but they have done nothing but throw their toys out the pram. Labour for there part are always going to reject and oppose the budget no matter what is in it. While all Westminster opposition parties have taken such an approach it is not good for a pr system and looks very immature. I would rather they abstained and published an alternative budget so that the public could see what the differences in policy would actually amount to.

One thing to remember is the differences between all the parties is small particulary in one single budget. This is largely brought about as they are all spending a predefined set of money and therefore we do not get the high/low tax divide. Also the snp, lib dems and labour all define themselves as center left and the tories will spend the same amount on monies too.
276

Blarney,

Edinburgh 06/02/2008 12:39:52
If only we could have another election now, right now. It would be a landslide victory for the SNP and the rest of the unionists know that, it is the last thing they want.
The budget will get through with much spin on the part of the Unionists trying to save face.
Bring it on.
277

Ayrshire Scot™,

06/02/2008 12:40:10
#316 kimba: i am the voice of not just Ayrshire but the whole of scotland now! i know things!
278

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

06/02/2008 12:41:22
314 AM2

"The European Court of Human Rights ruled in 2003 that “sharia is incompatible with the fundamental principles of democracy”, and I entirely agree with that."

Why should you care you dont even live in a democracy in fact I dont know anybody on the planet that does so where is the threat? How can Sharia law threaten something that doesnt even exist?

And do you even know what the word Jihad means?

But my point still remains youre condemnations are directed not just at a small fundamental idea within Islam but Islam in its entirety and its all in print so why are you denying it now?


279

Ayrshire Scot™,

06/02/2008 12:41:51
#323 Blarney: look what happened to labour after their previous landslide wins at holyrood! What goes around comes around! Alex is going to be rumbled! One broken promise after another etc etc etc
280

Publius,

London 06/02/2008 12:42:20
#253 Mac The Proud Scot

Right on. Your post is one of the few rational comments today. Once an election campaign gets under way it assumes a momentum of its own and the unexpected can happen. Here are a few guesses.
(1) Voters may be just as likely to blame the SNP for precipitating a premature election as to see as Scottish Superman.
(2) Scottish Labour might well sort itself out and get a new leader. (What about John Reid or one of the Westminster mob?)
(3) The Tories will fight harder than most posts think. They'll attack the economic competence of both SNP and Labour.
281

­Ayrshire Scot™,

06/02/2008 12:44:21
314. AM2, quite right on the evils and dangers of Islam
282

,

06/02/2008 12:45:08
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
283

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

06/02/2008 12:46:06
317

Again the point has to be made.
The SNP made pre-election manifesto promises as did all of the other parties on the assumtion they would win a majority vote and be in a position to implement all of their policies now they are having to deal with having through no fault of their own a minority government hence the deals being made with the other parties. WHAT CHOICES DO THEY HAVE?
Maybe if people like yourself had actually had the guts to vote for them and for fundamental change then they would have the majority they needed to implement all of their policies without having to resort to doing deals. If you want to blame anybody blame those who didnt vote for one party or the other.
284

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

Edinburgh 06/02/2008 12:46:35
328

I rest my case.
285

Arfur,

06/02/2008 12:47:05
The only way another election can go is majority to SNP.

Since they have came in they have done more for Scotland in what? 9 months or so? than Labour ever did in the last 10 years.

On these boards and people I know/at work/in the pub who were once (and at election time) Labour voters have been changing their tune and say they are impressed with the way Salmond has dealt with things so far.

Torys will never get in, in Scotland, the Libs dont have enough backing in Scotland and do you really think that half the country are going to bring back that tinpot micky mouse party that (a) did feck all for Scotland in ten years (2) cant fart without englands blessing and (d) are falling to pieces bit by bit every day on the front pages of the papers.
286

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

Edinburgh 06/02/2008 12:47:16
329

Much more preferable to hugging a unionist.
287

Calum Crubag,

06/02/2008 12:47:45
Labour won't have the courage to vote for dissolution. They know that endless corruption in both London and Wendy Alexanders office would decimate their vote. They have nothing new to offer anyway, just bitterness and whinging.

Go for it Alex!
288

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 06/02/2008 12:48:03
#135 AJ Fife. Being deadly serious for a moment, the figure must be higher than 73%. I suspect admitting the truth was too hard for the other 27%.

Her Labour colleahues can be seen physically wincing when Wendy opens her mouth in Holyrood. The Hungry Caterpillar episode was bordering on the unbearable for them and proved to be a defining moment for Wendy's career. They would ALL jump at the chance to appoint someone like Salmond in her place.
289

­Ayrshire Scot™,

06/02/2008 12:48:16
333. No doubt you oppose the powers the police want to detain terrorists and prefer leaving them loose to committ atrocities against Christians, eh?
290

Calum Crubag,

06/02/2008 12:48:16
Unionist, Islamists... all want their power.
291

morris,

edinburgh 06/02/2008 12:48:21
313

Most of your drivel is not worthy of a response.However I will reply to one part of it.
Anyone who wants to see their country be one of the richest is called SANE.

The size of the public sector in Scotland is that realised by our inclusion in the UK and being governed by Westminster.

That would not apply to an independent SCOTLAND because we would no longer be in the UK YOU DOLT.

You cannot judge independence by what we have now. The reason we want independence is BECAUSE of what we have now !
292

Calum Crubag,

06/02/2008 12:50:07
336- Hell, I want to committ atrocities against Christians! These dark age dinosaurs have life hell for millions of us for the last 2000 years odd. Christians were burning and slaughtering each other when Islam was barely finding it's feet. Funny that they both come from the same source?
293

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

06/02/2008 12:52:43
336

Well that is one way to spin it another is to give the police all the powers they crave and turn our country into a Sharia Islamic state in everything but religous doctrine. Is that what you want?

What is your definition of a terrorist anyway?
294

morris,

edinburgh 06/02/2008 12:53:27
312 get out of jail free card?
Do you mean Cathy Jaimieson ?
295

Blarney,

Arbroath 06/02/2008 12:53:43
Alex is going to get rumbled? Broken Promises? Change the record will you. You honestly think that people up here are that stupid that if you keep saying the same thing over and over it will be burned into their minds and become true. We endured 8 years of lies and broken promises from LabLib and no amount of spinning will ever remove that from our memories
I really hope the Unionists block the budget, but they won't because they are onto a loser if they do.
3 years is not that far away though, and the way Lab/lib is going they will lose in an even bigger way than they would if the election was called in 3 months.
Sorry for interupting your new job of multiple log ins postings.
296

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

06/02/2008 12:54:09
339

You got that right. Christian, Zionist, Islamic, terrorism is there a difference?
297

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 06/02/2008 12:54:39
Foulkes and AM2

Why are you littering this thread with posts on Islam, Sharia law etc? Go and find a relevant thread elsewhere and give us all some peace!
298

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

Edinburgh 06/02/2008 12:54:59
341

2 get out of jail free cards? that is too much of a consession.
299

Disputer,

06/02/2008 12:55:29
All this talk about "cosying up to the Tories" etc. It's called consensus politics. I dispute these threads saying this.
300

­Ayrshire Scot™,

06/02/2008 12:56:58
I see in todays Express "Brown mired in sleaze row as he claims £20,000 for Londonb flat"

Does Gordon Brown not live in Downing Street. Why is he is still claiming £20,000 a year for London accommodation?
301

­Ayrshire Scot™,

06/02/2008 12:57:44
342 Rubbish! Name one Labour/Lib Dem broken promise!
302

Alan B,

06/02/2008 12:58:24
#327 "Once an election campaign gets under way it assumes a momentum of its own"

I agree with this statement but ur examples seem more what u want to happen than is likely.

The big issues really are
1)why would anyone still want to vote labour. scotland seemed to vote labour like sheep this could continue but it could easily be eroded by having alternatives. the corruption by labour make it hard to believe that any polically aware person would vote for them until they sort themselves out.
2)there is momentum in politics and labour seem to have lost it, even down in westminster. many people vote wtih the party they think is going to win the press tend to get behind parties that are perceived to be doing well.
3)why would anyone vote lib dem anymore. they tended to be a party of ideas and pushed themselves as the ethical choice. this is not something that really sticks anymore. yes oppose independence but give the people a choice through a referendum. same with the eu traty. as a party it has massively lost its way.
4)the tories are primed for a recovery but they really alienated themselves from scotland so badly that it could be a very long road back if at all.



303

morris,

edinburgh 06/02/2008 13:01:10
346

Especially when you consider that Nu Labour an Lib Dem did exactly that for the previous eight years,and were quite happy to jump into bed together,the only debatable point was who was screwing who?
304

JamesC,

London 06/02/2008 13:01:41
338
I never mentiioned "Independence".
So you are the "Dolt".
Scotland is a country of 4.5 million people.
25 percent of the workforce is in the public sector.
None of this 25 percent can keep hospitals free of the superbug,teach children to read and write etc.
If Scotland was "independent" not one iota of this would change.
And that is a fact.

305

­Ayrshire Scot™,

06/02/2008 13:02:14
353 Disgusting. Typical SNP trash talk.
306

­Ayrshire Scot™,

06/02/2008 13:03:31
354 4.5 million people? But how many when the SNP throw open our borders and install their "welcome to our jobs booths" at our airports for any old Johnny foreigner?
307

kimba,

06/02/2008 13:04:57
319. And Cameron refused to back a English parliament,he said it was not good for the "union",what the fcuk is he on!
308

­Ayrshire Scot™,

06/02/2008 13:05:40
354 Great post! Quite right! Independence won't cure MRSA!
309

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

06/02/2008 13:06:00
249 AM2

Who is WE? WE dont live in a democracy and WE certainly dont live in the LA LA land you are portraying. Did you dig this fantasy world up from a computer game or from a book in the Sci Fi section of Waterstons?

Sharia law doesnt seem to be much different from the Christian doctrine shown in the bible in fact the similarities are scary.

But what has any of this to do with Islam the belief? there are millions if not billions of Islamics who dont hold to Sharia laws yet you condemn them all.
There are fundamental Christian sects who live by the bible and all of its fundamental flaws who would rather kill a mother than allow an abortion who would risk an aids pandemic rather than use a condom.

yer attitude to Islam is politically motivated no doubt your views would change with fundamental government policy shifts.
310

­Ayrshire Scot™,

06/02/2008 13:06:19
357. Which union? Maybe he is getting funding from the TGWU or something? Wouldn't surprise me.
311

Thatcher's love child,

06/02/2008 13:07:13
354 JamesC

Couldn't agree more. All this independence talk is just window dressing. Many of Scotland's problems are social or cultural, you can't legislate for that.

I see shuggie and kylie are to get personal mentors in Glasgow now. That only reinforces the idea that the state is responsible for the minutia of peoples' lives. How are we going to pay for it?

You are quite right, the idenpendence diatribe is a distraction.

Still, this coming budget isn't all bad. And even if the SNP fail in achieving independence, and they will, the people of Scotland will still be able to thank them for tackling this silly nanny state tax and waste policy. In my eyes that is progressive enough, for now.
312

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

Edinburgh 06/02/2008 13:07:31
352

There you go being the comedian again.
313

JamesC,

London 06/02/2008 13:09:04
315 "Incompetance"
I think you mean "Incompetence" right?
No one pays you any attention,you have nothing worthwhile to say.
You have shown your an incompetent idiot.
314

FedUpTaxPayer,

Edinburgh 06/02/2008 13:10:25
I think this a reasonable move by him.

Obviously without an overall majority he cannot simply force through his wishes, and therefore needs to compromise. However he does not need to bend over backwards to get this, as he knows perfectly well if he did force an election, he'd do at least as well as last time, and probably better. Labour have went from bad to worse to appalling to plain embarrassing both nationally and in Scotland, whilst he especially, and his party have done quite well.

I suspect this little threat will help him get his budget through.
315

Geoff,

south africa 06/02/2008 13:10:26
To use one of those infuriating yuppy new sayings-this one a 'no-brainer'. THE Unionists(bless them all) must support the budget. Now is not the Time(for us) The unpalatable truth is that Alex and co. would walk an election with an increased majority now.
We wouldnt want that now would we? Opposition parties need to get their act together first.
316

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

06/02/2008 13:10:27
361

"Couldn't agree more. All this independence talk is just window dressing. Many of Scotland's problems are social or cultural, you can't legislate for"

You cant legislate for anything without Independence can you? without Independence you have to rely on somebody else legislating for you.
Are we getting close to opening our eyes yet?
317

Blarney,

Portsoy 06/02/2008 13:11:40
356, "Johnny Foreigner?", typical Unionists trash talk.
318

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

Edinburgh 06/02/2008 13:12:14
363

And yet another worth while contribution you must stay up all night practicing these posts.
319

­Ayrshire Scot™,

06/02/2008 13:13:23
363. If we are bein sticklers for accuracy Scotland's populattion is not £4.5 million but I liked what you said about independence not being a way to change anything or mop hopsital floors - spot on!!!
320

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

Edinburgh 06/02/2008 13:14:01
358

If its a cure to your MRSA your looking for then go to a doctor you wont find a cure voting for the union.
321

­Ayrshire Scot™,

06/02/2008 13:15:06
367 I have never been a member of a union in my life, shows what you know!
322

Disputer,

06/02/2008 13:16:05
348
­Ayrshire Scot™,
06/02/2008 12:57:44
342 Rubbish! Name one Labour/Lib Dem broken promise!

Education to be a priority for a start.
323

­Ayrshire Scot™,

06/02/2008 13:17:05
372 Education was their top priority!
324

Disputer,

06/02/2008 13:17:58
What a moneyed population.."£4.5 million !
325

Disputer,

06/02/2008 13:18:33
373

and they blew it big time.
326

thaijambo,

Edinburgh 06/02/2008 13:18:47
#111 Don't give up your day job if you have one. You are very witty I must say and an obviously an idiot. Go back to your village.
327

Thatcher's love child,

06/02/2008 13:19:02
366 FOtC

I think you have hit a logical disconnect. Not the first time judging by your posts.

When I say "you can't legislate for that" I also mean there is no point, if there is no point in legislating - as Labout repeatedly do such as outlawing already criminal acts - then you don't need independence.

What we really need is implementation of existing laws, appropriate and relevant application of existing taxes raised from the people. There is ample powers at Holyrood for this, so we don't need independence, but we do need the SNP, for now, until the Conservative or Lib Dem brand names gain more credence.

The SNP are doing sterling work breaking Labour's choking grip on Scotland, but I look forward to when the electorate wakes up and returns Tories/Lib Dems to power and main opposition. Either order would suit me.

In summary, I hope the budget fails and we see Salmond gone and the two competant parties returned to prominance. But I'll not hold my breath, the SNP look on a stable peg for now.
328

morris,

edinburgh 06/02/2008 13:19:43
354

You state clearly in 313:
"wants Scotland to take over from the UN."
"And wants Scotland to go back to being one of the world's wealthiest countries."

Scotland would have to be independent before either could even be a possibility (even allowing for the fatc that its complete trash)and that is the Raison d e'tre of the party concerned!

YOU did not use the word independence but your comments could ONLY apply to an independent Scotland or they would apply to the UNITED KINGDOM of which we were still part of, and governed by Westminster.

Thats obvious even to the vilage idiot!

329

Sedov,

Scotland 06/02/2008 13:20:00
The last thing the Scottish people want is another election and another debacle like the present. I agree with the comments over Salmonds personality, he has always come across as being an arrogant and patronising person. The SNP have no answers to the needs of the Scottish people and their policies will solve nothing, even with the support of the other Tartan Tories. I give them another two years before the house of Salmond comes crashing down.
330

Disputer,

06/02/2008 13:20:09
Ayrshire Scot™

Are you the Ayrshire Scot™ who used to post as a Nationalist or are you faking his name? Your posts bear no resemblance to the previous Ayrshire Scot™. Your writing style is also completely different.
331

Disputer,

06/02/2008 13:21:20
379

I dispute that.
332

­Ayrshire Scot™,

06/02/2008 13:23:07
380 I was never a nationalist!
333

Disputer,

06/02/2008 13:24:08
What happened to yestedays comments on "Independence will let Scotland be global peacekeeper"?

Gone. All gone. Why?
334

Calum Crubag,

06/02/2008 13:24:32
AM2 - and what is the difference between sharia law and biblical law? Except that most Western Christians' faith is not so strong that they would happily execute people for not circumcising their sons, eating two types of meat on one plate or wearing two types of cloth. The Wee Frees still demand the death penalty for many similar 'sins'. Thankfully, they're just a minority. At least though, they stick to the true Xristian doctrine.

Unionists too took terror to lots of people. What was the British Empire? Natives were slaughtered and enslaved just so the rich in England, mostly, could get richer.

Unionist/Islamist
335

Disputer,

06/02/2008 13:25:10
382

But the original Ayrshire Scot™ WAS. Have you hijacked this poster's name?
336

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

Edinburgh 06/02/2008 13:26:37
379

And Tommy Sheridan is the answer to all our woes is that right Sedov?
337

Jings Crivens,

06/02/2008 13:27:23
Sorry but when keep seeing the same old idiotic and vitriolic posts by some people who only argument is “give us independence” with nothing to back it up but ranting. You do tend to respond in kind as it seem to be the only thing that gets their attention

I am for the UK and be part of a nation that has some influence in the world and provide a good standards of living for most of its people, a reasonable solid economy (but more manufacturing please) good health service, etc. Yes there are faults in the union but spitting the dummy out and walking away will not suddenly turn Scotland into a global super power. It will have as much clout as Norway, Denmark and from the policies delivered by the SNP little if any advantages over the Union.

Remember separatists are still in the minority not the majority in Scotland and the SNP Executive is now leaving its honeymoon period (broken manifesto promises, smell of corruption, etc). Let’s see how popular they are in 12 months time??
338

­Ayrshire Scot™,

06/02/2008 13:27:36
385 yes, got a problem with that?
339

Joe M.,

Edinburgh 06/02/2008 13:27:39
How come there was recently a mass petition launched for a Scottish independence referendum and no newspaper even bothered to cover it?

If anyone wants the real news about Scotland and the truth about Scottish independence then they should visit the Scottish Independence Guide:

www.scottishindependence.com
340

boudica,

Glasgow 06/02/2008 13:28:49
309
Please give me all the Positives of Islam in the Modern World ,
341

morris,

edinburgh 06/02/2008 13:29:54
379

As the SNP have an independent Scotland with control over the exceptional finances of a 5 million population nation as their goal/raison d etre,to draw any conclusion as you have done whilst in a concensus politics devolution arrangement is barking.YOu simply cannot do that ,and we all know what your alternative is. Its about to get its butt kicked at Westminster and repalced by another REAL TORY government this time .
342

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

Edinburgh 06/02/2008 13:29:56
377

Dont need Independence???
Is that true for every nation on the planet or just Scotland then?
If this union is so right then why did Ireland fight so hard to leave? why arent they legislating to get back in? why does no other nation on the planet want to join?
Why are you bothering to post this Sh*te on these forums?
343

­Ayrshire Scot™,

06/02/2008 13:30:00
390 Here:

344

Disputer,

06/02/2008 13:30:48
385
Disputer,
06/02/2008 13:25:10
382

"But the original Ayrshire Scot™ WAS. Have you hijacked this poster's name?"

Your answer "­yes, got a problem with that?"

Not me. I just like to know who I'm responding to.

345

­Ayrshire Scot™,

06/02/2008 13:30:50
392 Rubbish, alot of countries that are now independent would gladly come back into the British empire given the state they are in today
346

Thatcher's love child,

06/02/2008 13:32:32
389 Joe M

Having a wee off-topic and irrelevant whinge there Joe? I can only assume you were ignored due to your personal irrelevance in Scotland.

Please can debate today's exciting political news by remaining on-topic? My first and last plea to any of the rude trolls with any decency out there, who don;t realise what a nuisance they are.
347

Shaken,

06/02/2008 13:33:00
Full praise to AS. He has gone the political equaivalent of 'all in' reference poker and other gambling allusions mentioned.

AS has seen the support for SNP grow through the Labour parties stupidity and unethical behaviour.

The most sound point he makes about independence is that we would not have had Glasgow Airport attacked by terrorists if we were not part of the UK. Breaking away from the emperialist Britain is as much to protect Scotland in the face of global political tension fuelled by Westminster stance and support of the US as it is to have the oil revenues, economic stability and social reform that is so badly needed.

Do you know that in West Scotland the life expectancy of males is the lowest in Europe?

If a vote was called which I think is the right call I for one would welcome the opportunity to fast track independance and distance Scotland from our war like neighbours who will very soon be forced into another illegal war with Iran or any other country who hapens to upset the baby in the Whitehouse..
348

Sedov,

Scotland 06/02/2008 13:33:38
#86 you are obviously away behind in any understanding of what I stand for. TS is finished as a serious fighter for working class people but bad as he is ,he is a thousand times better in every respect to slimy Salmond. ( but who isn't?)
349

morris,

edinburgh 06/02/2008 13:34:42
395 Name one you idiot !
350

NovaScotia™,

06/02/2008 13:34:52
#395 Ayrshire Scot: I happen to know (whisper it for now) that many in Ireland deeply regret breaking away from us and can't believe that Salmond and his crazy cronies want to do for Scotland in the same way!
351

monkey man,

the Zoo 06/02/2008 13:34:57
Salmond has the appropriate surname as he is slippery as any creature in the sea
352

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

06/02/2008 13:35:27
390

It gives comfort to millions of people all over the world. It gives millions of people all over the world something to believe in.
It isnt my cup of tea but then I am a born cynic and question everything.
So tell me the positives of Christianity, Judaism, Hindism, Buddism, agnostisism, etc.
353

boudica,

Glasgow 06/02/2008 13:35:37
Channel 4 did a Progam on Sharia Law in the UK the other night did you watch it ..The Shiek on that program and I quote " if Sharia Law is accepted , Just One Hand being cut off there will be no more Theives and if 1 person ( Probably a Woman as Men dont get stoned for Adultry only being Homosexual) their will be no more Adultry" right I suppose you beleive all Muslim Countries who have Sharia Law dont have Crime ..Pakistan riddled with it , Saudi riddle with it , and of Course that other Great Myth all Followers of Islam are not Racist either ..
354

Sedov,

Scotland 06/02/2008 13:36:34
#398 sorry that should have been #386 and not 86.
355

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

Edinburgh 06/02/2008 13:36:48
401 Monkey man.

You certainly seem to know what youre talking about when it comes to appropriate lables.
356

Luke Skywalker,

Edinburgh, United Kingdom 06/02/2008 13:37:19
At first I had a respect for Rt Hon Alex Salmond, MP, MSP, First Minister. Since he changed his name to wee Ecky Trump, he would appear to have gone downhill. He is now acting like a toddler who has lost his sweetie.

Ready Wendy?
357

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

06/02/2008 13:37:56
403

So what? Sharia law is not Islam and Islam is not Sharia law.
Pointless post.
358

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

06/02/2008 13:39:48
400

Liar Liar pants on fire.
359

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

06/02/2008 13:41:47
395

Name one who has expressed their wish to join the UK.
360

morris,

edinburgh 06/02/2008 13:43:20
387

We have a research department,numerous university studies, the McCrone report, a membership which grows daily (mostly from Labour) and we are the party in government in Scotland,plus ahead in both opinion polls for Westminster and Holyrood. Nothing to back it up? I think you are the one with nothing !
361

Shaken,

06/02/2008 13:44:19
406 Luke - You should come over from the dark side.

Can't you see a master tactician at work? All parties were ready with their wish list. This way AS keeps them under control and really just says to them - 'do you want to go all-in against me'
362

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

Edinburgh 06/02/2008 13:46:31
Whoa I have just had a comment removed without trace from the other blog on the 80 million hotel story. Not even a space left where I posted and not a single inappropriate word either.

Sinister stuff indeed.
363

boudica,

Glasgow 06/02/2008 13:46:48
399 ..Howzabout Zimbabwe..for one take more than a Council Tax Freeze to sort that one out ...
364

Paco Luna,

Bo'ness 06/02/2008 13:48:06
395 'Things arent like they were when we had The Empire'

no wonder people in Scotland are thinking about independence when attitudes like this still exist.
365

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 06/02/2008 13:48:19
#215 JJM

By that logic, most Scots do not want a Labour Government. And in case you didn't realise it, we don't have one as more Scots wanted an SNP Government than a Labour one!!
366

Geoff,

sa 06/02/2008 13:50:51
397 Shaken-a few points-You say that if Scotland was not part of the UK it would not have had the Glasgow Airport incident. Thats the same as saying Scotland should not oppose suicide bombers or at least be nice to them.
You also imply that low life expectancy in western Scotland is the fault of the Union. It might have another cause-the appalling weather comes to mind as one. How would you acount for low life expectancy amongst Australian aboriginals in what is one of the worlds wealthiest nations?
And one "free" from the british imperial yoke.
That is -Independent?
Finally- a war aginst Iran would be the last thing any sane person would want but a question-do you think Irans nuclear ambitions are purely for peaceful means. Shouldnt we all be trying to limit the spread of nuclear weapons?
367

Sedov,

Scotland 06/02/2008 13:54:08
#415 Nothing is fixed in time otherwise we would still be living in caves. So far the impact of the SNP on my standard of living has been like a feather on an elephants back. If this is how Salmond reacts now -what will he be like in two years time when his New Labour look alike policies fail? and they will.
368

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

06/02/2008 13:55:42
398

No mate Tommy didnt know how to stay in the game whereas AS has mastered it. You and I are fundamentally on the same page Ideologically but I seem to be more realistic than you. We first need Independence before we can even begin to fight the other battles of poverty and corruption. The SNP are the only party with a realistic chance of gaining Independence and the parties to the left should realise this and back them at least until Independence is acheived and then push their own agenda's.
As long as we are attached to a right wing majority nation such as England then your left wing voice will never be heard.
They even highjacked your party and corrupted it into something palatable to right wing England.
Dont waste yer vote and your time with the SSP or any other minority party until you can be heard and your message can get across.
369

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

Edinburgh 06/02/2008 13:56:27
417

And how much of an impact has the SSP had on your standard of living?
370

morris,

edinburgh 06/02/2008 13:57:06
413

I meant one who" wants" to return to Britsh rule of course.
I know you can name a country which has not fared well,but the point is that that NO ONE has even applied .Not a single one.

Mugabe would be enough to force anybody back you would think but they dont even debate this, not even in Zimbabwe.

I agree however ZIMBABWE certainly did not forsee this coming. They are an exception in any case,and the opposition might well favour a reformed Zimbabwe as a member of the Commonwealth,but thats a far cry from wanting to re impose colonialist rule !
Even the SNP intends to stay in the Commonwealth of Nations !
371

Publius,

London 06/02/2008 13:58:20
#384 and others
I have no religion at all, but you are hard about Christianity. According to the bible, Jesus was presented with a woman taken in adultery. He said 'let he who is without sin cast the first stone'. Christians do not always live up to the teaching of their founder, but it does not invalidate the doctrines of Christianity.
Jesus is also supposed to have said ' Render unto Ceasar that which is Caesar's. Render unto God that which is God's.'
Fundamentalist Islam is a menace, because it does support the separation of religion and state. Iran (the 'Islamic Republic of Iran'), Afghanistan (the 'Islamic Republic of Afghanistan'), Pakistan (capital 'Islamabad')as well as Saudi Arabia (home of the Wahabis and of Moslem holy places) are all characterised by the oppression of women, the persecution of religious minorities and political violence. To equate the eccentric Wee Frees with Moslem fundamentalists betrays a total lack of understanding of religion today.
372

Publius,

London 06/02/2008 14:00:09
correction to 421 Second paragraph, first line ... insert 'not' between 'does' and 'support'!
373

Geoff,

sa 06/02/2008 14:00:42
420 Morris-hope you are well!

Sierra Leone was very keen on the UK returning as an administrator. The British Government under TB rejected the request but did and still do render significant military and other assistance. Not trying to make any particular statement here-just on a point of order.
374

boudica,

06/02/2008 14:03:05
397.
"The most sound point he makes about independence is that we would not have had Glasgow Airport attacked by terrorists if we were not part of the UK. Breaking away from the emperialist Britain is as much to protect Scotland in the face of global political tension fuelled by Westminster stance."..
You are Talking Total Mince Just like Wee Eck and the growth in Support for the SNP comes from the Islamic Community in Scotland as they see Wee Eck and his Party as Tools to further their own Agenda both in Scotland and the rest of the UK ..
375

Sedov,

Scotland 06/02/2008 14:08:23
#419. as regular posters will tell you, (a) I do not support the SSP and (b) the SSP are not in power and have no MSP's or councillors. - mostly, but not all, down to Tommy Sheridan.
376

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

06/02/2008 14:08:43
416

"You say that if Scotland was not part of the UK it would not have had the Glasgow Airport incident. Thats the same as saying Scotland should not oppose suicide bombers or at least be nice to them"

I am saying it in fact the Glasgow bombing was a direct result of UK foreign policy and it is not the same as saying Scotland should not oppose suicide bombers you clown!

9/11 was a direct result of US foreign policy in its blind support for Israel and Israelli foreign policy against Arab states. Is that clear enough for you. The US and UK declared war on Islam by first supporting its enemies and by then invading their sovereign states therefore putting us all in the front line of this war. They could end it tomorrow but it doesnt suit them to do so because somebody somewhere is making massive profits out of this situation.
Tony Blair has just received over 10 million from the bank of Zurich I wonder why?

A war against Iran? who is going to fight it all of our commitments have strained us beyond our limitations already. We would have to withdraw from both Iraq and Afganistan to open up a new front.
Or maybe this time the Israellis would like to do their own dirty work this time.

The low life expectancy in Western Scotland is due to poverty! poverty is a direct result of political policy! political policy in Scotland over the last hundred years has been as a direct result of the union! therefore logically it stands to reason that the low life expectancy in Western Scotland is a direct result of life within the union.
Anything else I can help you understand?
377

Hibee Lady,

Edinburgh 06/02/2008 14:09:06
I think that you should all arrange a time and a place to meet - I can only imagine the chat...........
378

Liberal for life,

Dunblane 06/02/2008 14:10:51
#1 - one could add a whole list of dictators to the list such as present day Mugabe etc. Anyone, and I mean anyone, who feels it necessary to issue threats is ultimatley of a mentality associated with a bully. This might go down well in the SNP but its surely not the type of person we want running a modern progressive Scotland. If Salmonds arguments based upon the merits of his policies are not sufficiently persuasive then as a minority he should accept defeat gracefully not in this petulent and bullying fashion.

At least it shows he and Donald Trump have another thing in common apart from the desire to build a gold complex on Menie dunes - as they say in life "great minds think alike but fools seldom differ".

The jury is still out on who is kidding who about what is genuinely in the best interests of Scotland and I for one increasingly "hae ma doots aboot Aik" thats for sure.
379

boudica,

Glasgow 06/02/2008 14:10:52
397 ..
You speak as if Scotland had no part in building the Britih Empire we played a big part and made money out of it also in Slavery ..The Rich Scottish Merchants that made their cash from the Likes of this ..They had the slaves they owned painted over in their Portraits after Slavery was abolished and that is what the Nats do play the Blame Game also they talk about teaching Real Scottish History in Schools ..I take they will try and Whitewash our History to suit their Purpose .. so look at the Whole Picture and not just pick the bits that suit you and ignore the rest .
380

morris,

edinburgh 06/02/2008 14:11:12
417

Sedov

Ask yourself the following:

1) When Broon goes to the polls who do you think will be elected to no 10?
2) How will that contribute in any way whatsoever to your goal?

Serioulsy Answer the questions
381

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

Edinburgh 06/02/2008 14:11:26
425

Then where do you stand? you are no better than most of these unionist trolls if all you can do is critise without having an alternative to offer. What should AS be doing differently with the minority government he has now?
382

kimba,

06/02/2008 14:12:26
360. NOW WHO'S BEING THE SMART A-SE,you know fine well "what union".
383

Arfur,

06/02/2008 14:12:50
# 373 Ayrshire Scot - if that was top priority i would hate to see how bottom priority ended up.

# 400 Nova Scotia (Ayrshire Scot) - Wee tip for you, if your going to come on with another name take out the wee TM after your name.

How sad are you - making a (stupid) point then coming on as someone else to back it up. LOSER.
384

An English Voice,

06/02/2008 14:13:16
Still the same old ranting and raging by the ill-informed nats; the same poorly-disguised racist abuse of the English; refusal to accept anything as fact even when given proof; citing of nosensensical claims as 'fact' and then refusing to provide proof; abusive attitude to everyone who disagrees; refusal to accept that SNP support is starting to drop as is support for independence; refusal to accept the rampant apathy for independence as shown by the few daily comments being posted on the much-publicised National Conversation and the tiny % that have even bothered to read the SNP's flagship White Paper; desperate attempts to provoke hatred and resentment of England/UK citing events that happened hundreds of years ago; the same large number of ex-pats compared to the small number of Scottish-based nats; the same multiple usernames....

...isn't anyone bored of just going round and around in these ever decreasing circles?
385

New Town Resident,

06/02/2008 14:13:25
-399 and 420. As 423 says,in terms of fully independent countries Sierra Leone requested dependant status a couple of years ago did it not?

The devolved governments of the dependant status territories such as the Falkland Islands, Gibraltar and St. Helena have all requested full union with the UK.

There are also a number of dependant status countries in the Caribean who have refused independence - e.g. Monserrat, the Virgin Islands and Anguilla.

Morris, I think you have been given this answer a number of times before?
386

morris,

edinburgh 06/02/2008 14:13:34
427

Stick the kettle on !We will be there asap What's the address?
387

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

Edinburgh 06/02/2008 14:13:38
429

Again with this we who is we? where is my money from the slavery trade? where is my profits from the union? where are your profits from the union? how much did you get?

We were one of the first countries annexed into the English empire. Read yer history even the UK version tells you that.
388

boudica,

Glasgow 06/02/2008 14:14:38
Also remember Rabbie Burns seriously thought of working in the Slave Plantation Business as a good career move ..Just for the Cash ...A Mans a Man for aw That Eh !!!
389

morris,

edinburgh 06/02/2008 14:15:52
435

Theres a world of difference between a member of the Commonwealth,a protectorate and a member of the United Kingdom .Ask Wendy !
390

An English Voice,

06/02/2008 14:16:13
433. LOL! Is that what he did?

Hey, Ayrshire Scot/Nova Scotia/Splashe, have you found your missing 19,937 comments from the National Conversation?

There's still barely 600 there...far fewer than the 20,000 you claim.
391

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 06/02/2008 14:17:07
#295 Rules

The same situation as when Labour and the Liberals were in coalition. Manifesto promises were dropped to appease the Libs. No great surprise that the SNP should compromise and drop some manifesto pledges. its all part of the political game.

I suspect that you are merely annoyed that the SNP are in power and not Labour.
392

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

Edinburgh 06/02/2008 14:17:47
434

Cue the troll. So what do you believe in? anything positive to offer? how about treating us to your insights as the the advantages we would have within the union.

435

No it didnt! it asked for aid in combating the criminal gangs running riot thoughout the country and it got military aid because of the diamond mines and the effect it was having on the diamond markets.
393

Destroy the Planet,

06/02/2008 14:17:49
#427 Hibee lady, this sort sums up all these bams -

"Scotsmad commenter - A Person who, being unable to express his anger through physical violence (owning to their physical weakness, lack of bravery and/or conviction in real life), instead manifest said emotions through the text-based medium of the internet, usually in the form of aggressive writing that they would not (for reasons previously mentioned) be able to give form to in real life."

So it would be a pretty boring meet
394

kimba,

06/02/2008 14:18:37
430. When Brown goes to the polls in 2 years time god only knows who the winner will be,a week is a long time in politics let alone 2years.
395

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

Edinburgh 06/02/2008 14:19:16
443 AM2

Fair enough but you will be back with your Islamaphobia in the near future no doubt and I will be here to point it out to you again.
396

Disputer,

06/02/2008 14:19:33
434
An English Voice

You are complaining about multiple user names by Nats. What are your thoughts on the Ayrshire Scot (unionist) who admitted stealing the original Ayrshire Scot's user name? (388 answering 385)

Or do you only moan when Nats do it?
397

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 06/02/2008 14:20:41
#298 splashy.

At least the intellectually challenged labour law-breakers managed to come up with some amendments which is more than can be said for the Liberals. That made Nicol Stephen look even more useless than before, if that is possible.
398

An English Voice,

06/02/2008 14:21:46
439. I could post some photos of extremists in action in Asia, Africa and the Balkans if necc. Lots of beheadings, executing POWs, torture, summary executions, mass executions, burning of houses packed with captive women and children....

All from the 80s and 90s.
399

Destroy the Planet,

06/02/2008 14:22:00
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO Almost 500 !
400

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

Edinburgh 06/02/2008 14:22:48
435

Hold on! Gibralter? Virgin Islands? when have any of these countries asked to join the union of the UK????????
401

Disputer,

06/02/2008 14:22:50
Maybe better to be a Christian then and just obliterate Iraq.
402

Miss H,

06/02/2008 14:25:48
I have always wondered English Voice at your thought processes. Your name itself draws attention to the fact that you claim to be English - and could even imply that you are the voice of England - as you spew out endless anti-SNP propaganda including your constant refrain that the SNP is anti-English. What's the point of it? Do you really see yourself as representing something or are you just a random nut who has latched onto the Scotsman website as a form of therapy?
403

An English Voice,

06/02/2008 14:26:18
434. I have given a long list of advantages of the union. Several times in fact.

Although Wardog considered that having a strong broad-based economy, enjoying massive inward investment (far more than even China), being the world's 2nd largest global investor, a small national debt and a strong global voice with strong economic/political/military resources to back this voice up...were "meaningless".
404

boudica,

Glasgow 06/02/2008 14:27:20
437 ...most People in England could say that too nowadays , do you think they fared any better than the rest of the UK ..No ...so yep we do have a lot in Common with all Our Celtic Brothers and Sisters south of the Border ..we are still a majority in the British Isles you know ...... take a good look round the cities in the UK there a good few Buildings Built on the cash made from that Trade and many a Scot made their cash through it ...I do read my History ...only I admit the Mistakes and dont pretend they never happened ...
405

Destroy the Planet,

06/02/2008 14:28:09
500 is mine ! All mine !
406

,

06/02/2008 14:28:21
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
407

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 06/02/2008 14:28:33
#323 Blarney

I have to be honest, I would not like to see another election. Whilst I am fairly sure that the SNP would be returned with a bigger majority, I cannot bear the thought of the Lab/Libs getting the slightest opportunity of regaining power. Look at some of the posters on here who try to justify the last Executive's record and even think Wendy is a good leader. If there are more of these oddballs out there then I would not risk another election.
408

kimba,

06/02/2008 14:29:15
Has he gone yet?
409

Destroy the Planet,

06/02/2008 14:30:30
Na just away to blow up his baloon of hate
410

Sgurr,

06/02/2008 14:30:31
ding-a-ling-a-ling tea bell is going!
411

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

06/02/2008 14:31:07
439

Where would the groups who committed these atrocities buy there weapons and explosives from?
Are not the US and UK the largest arms dealers in the world? before Semtex was invented by the Czechs wasnt C4 the explosive of choice? and where does one obtain C4?
Who invented produced and used the bombs taken up by terrorists from every ideology.
Who trained most of the terrorist groups running around today?
Who has dealt more with the terrorists on equal footing than the West?
Why didnt you mention Irgun and the Stern gang? the IRA the UDA? how about the CIA MI6 Mossad.
You seem very selective with your condemnation of terrorism.
Do you even know what a terrorist is? what is your defination of a terrorist then? would George Washington qualify for example? or how about Bomber Harris?
412

morris,

edinburgh 06/02/2008 14:31:36
438

That is undoubtedly true ,and I acknowledge this. I am also aware that the pro slavery,Confederate States of the US Civil war were largely Celtic in their ethnic origin, (and African of course)both of which give little comfort to me. I would have thought the Scots and Irish would have known better!

That howevever has precious little to do with the economics of an independent Scotland some 250 years later, and in the latter case not even the same continent never mind period ,and independence on economic grounds seems to be the relevant matter today.I agree you are correct of course, but the relevance is debatable.
413

Destroy the Planet,

06/02/2008 14:31:43
Damn, spoke too soon, theyve sent in the reserves
414

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

06/02/2008 14:32:04
457

I thou