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Labour backs Tory move to call Salmond before MSPs over Trump

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Published Date: 19 December 2007
THE three main unionist parties joined forces last night to ensure Alex Salmond has to explain his role in the Donald Trump golf resort saga to the Scottish Parliament.
Labour decided to back a Tory move – which already has the support of the Liberal Democrats – which would initiate a parliamentary inquiry into the Scottish Government's approach to the plans.

The local government committee would require the Firs
t Minister to give evidence to explain his role in the affair, in particular providing details of his meeting with Trump officials the day before ministers announced they were "calling in" the development.

The committee is due to meet today to arrange its business for the coming parliamentary session.

David McLetchie, the Tory MSP on the committee, is expected to propose an inquiry, and this is then expected to be backed by the three Labour MSPs and the one Liberal Democrat MSP, a clear majority.

Labour leaders are still adamant that a minister should explain the administration's role in parliament, and they will continue to press for that.

But, given that their chances of success are slim, the party has decided to back the Tory move as the best way of holding Mr Salmond to account.

Jackie Baillie, Labour's parliamentary business manager, said Labour was now "supportive" of the Conservative proposals.

But she added: "We will ask again for a minister to come before parliament and make a statement. The longer this drags on, the more questions are asked, the more likelihood there is of a judicial review of the planning application. The government is responsible for creating that degree of confusion."

A Scottish Government source said that Mr Salmond was happy to come to the committee to give evidence.

He said: "The First Minister has previously said that he is very open and available to parliamentary committees, and is perfectly relaxed with this, as ministers and civil servants have conducted themselves totally correctly throughout.

"There is no difficulty with this suggestion, subject to nothing being done to prejudice a live application currently before ministers, and of course Mr Salmond has no role in the planning decision of this proposed development."

John Swinney, the finance secretary, is the minister responsible for calling in the application and he will make the decision next year on whether the £1 billion development in Aberdeenshire will go ahead.

Meanwhile, opposition politicians are expecting a flood of parliamentary answers from ministers today and tomorrow on the plans.

MSPs from all the opposition parties tabled written questions to ministers last week, asking for exact details and timings of meetings between ministers and Trump officials.

Ministers do not have to answer these questions until next month, but it is understood that officials are working hard to get them answered by the time parliament rises for its Christmas recess tomorrow.

• Mr Trump was yesterday accused of jumping the gun on the planned development in his latest book for budding business moguls.

Trump 101 The Way to Success lists "Aberdeen Golf Club, Scotland" in a section on Trump Organisation golf clubs.

A spokesman for RSPB Scotland, one of the environmental groups opposing the Menie scheme, claimed: "The fact that Mr Trump can publish a book which states that not only does he own a golf course in Aberdeen but also implies that it is consented, constructed and operational, gives a very clear signal of the regard with which he holds the decision-making process and the decision-makers themselves."



The full article contains 588 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
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19/12/2007 00:12:47
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3

Katty,

Bannockburn 19/12/2007 00:30:56
What a waste of our parliaments time and our money, Taxi McLetchie followings Slimmy Stevens followed up by wobbly Baille.

Stevens the only man to slither down a small spiral staircase without his back going out.

Remember Wendy & Co this Xmas
4

NovaScotia™,

19/12/2007 00:35:14
"Deputy first minister faces police inquiry over expenses

NICOL Stephen, the deputy first minister, is facing a police investigation after he was found guilty of breaking Scottish Parliament expenses guidelines, it emerged yesterday."
Scostman, Nov 26th 2006
5

NovaScotia™,

19/12/2007 00:37:24
Jackie Baillie said "The longer this drags on, the more questions are asked"

Well, indeed. Did she type that statement on of those special and awfully expensive "Computers for Labour" one wonders?
6

subrosa,

19/12/2007 01:26:44
Here we go! The NHS is finished now and the quote about '...does not expect an influx of European patients to travel to British hospitals...'. Oh really?

From The TimesDecember 18, 2007

Patients to beat NHS queues in EU plan for open health market
David Charter in Brussels
Patients will find it easier to escape NHS queues and head across the Channel for treatment under an EU blueprint for European health tourism to be published tomorrow.

It will guarantee that, in most cases, treatment within the European Union will be funded by the taxpayer. The move will open up competiton between the NHS and European health services and is being hailed as a big step towards an open market for public healthcare.

Until now, patients who have paid for more efficient treatment in France or Germany without securing prior funding approval have faced court battles to get the NHS to reimburse them. A draft of the EU directive on cross-border healthcare, seen by The Times, obliges the NHS to fund outpatient treatments in Europe, such as scans and minor operations, provided that the patient has been referred by a medical professional and is suffering delays.

The EU wants the same system for major hospital procedures such as joint replacements and serious dental work. But Brussels will allow countries to refuse to fund such operations abroad if they can argue that domestic services will suffer as a result. Such opt-outs would be negotiated procedure by procedure.

Related Links
First step towards Tesco-style 'supersurgeries'
Health tourists may deny NHS patients kidneys
NHS bill for ‘health tourists’ soars
Ministers are concerned that the changes could lead to too much cash flowing out of the NHS ? potentially a significant loss of control for Whitehall. The Government plans to fight the proposals as it tries to retain control of the purse strings. It does not expect a great influx of European patients to travel to British hospitals. Keith Pollard, director of Tr
7

subrosa,

19/12/2007 01:28:07
continued/
Keith Pollard, director of Treatment Abroad, a British company that places patients overseas, said: “The whole idea is to make an open market for healthcare throughout the EU. The NHS faces the prospect of losing revenue to hospitals overseas.

“But to get the NHS to a position where it is providing the same level of healthcare available in many European countries, something needs to shake it up. Otherwise we will carry on with this healthcare system which we worship but does not deliver.”

The draft directive states: “If the appropriate care for the patient’s condition cannot be provided in their own country without undue delay, then they will be authorised to go abroad, and any additional costs of treatment will be covered by public funds.”

The definition of “undue delay” is likely to be based on the assessment of a medical professional rather than a funding body. The directive was drawn up after several patients took the NHS to the European Court of Justice to try to recover the costs of treatments in the EU. This has left the refunding of treatment abroad governed by a confusing series of court rulings.

Yvonne Watts, 76, who went to France for a hip replacement in 2002, confirmed the right of patients to seek treatment abroad if they suffered undue delay in a legal battle decided by the European court last year. Her local health funder, Bedford Primary Care Trust, had refused to pay her £4,000 bill. Edwina Currie, the former Health Minister and spokeswoman for the Patients’ Association, said: “This is not about individual countries giving up their health services to Brussels. This will affect a number of people like Mrs Watts who have had to wait too long for routine surgery.”

Any patients seeking to come to Britain from EU countries would have to join the queue. NHS centres of excellence, such as Great Ormond Street Hospital for Children and the Royal Marsden cancer hospital, both in London, are seen as potential draws.

The Governmen
8

subrosa,

19/12/2007 01:29:13
continued?

The Government plans to fight the proposals, however, to retain control over funding and, therefore, whether patients are allowed to travel. The Department of Health said: “We are committed to ensuring that the right legislative framework is developed which ensures that, where patients choose to travel abroad, the NHS retains the ability to decide what care it will fund to meet the clinical needs of people it looks after. What people want is good services close to home and that is what we are committed to providing.”

9

Guga II,

Rockall 19/12/2007 02:03:32
So when are we going to have a parliamentary committee to investigate the sleaze and corruption rampant in the unionist parties?

It doesn't matter how hard they try to divert attention away from it, The Mouth of the South has, by her own admission, broken the law of the land. When is she going to be dealt with? Why haven't the police arrested and charged her?
10

b h,

dornoch 19/12/2007 02:33:35
Alex will knock em dead
boom
boom
boom
11

RossA,

Toronto 19/12/2007 03:09:08
Strange bedfellows indeed!

They'll soon be asking for an interesting position with "Big Tommy" Sheridan.
12

The Pict.,

Canada 19/12/2007 04:04:25
Oh yes. This is a major potential scandal alright. The ELECTED Scottish PRIME MINISTER has NO RIGHT to get involved in any business dealings that might further Scotland. Why we must demand, yes, DEMAND that an English ex prime minister Tony something or other be called in to solve this problem. After all he does have the experience, with his spin doctors giving a helping hand, how to give a true accounting to the ignorant Scottish people. of which I am one, that this is not democracy and Prime Minister Salmond should sit on his rear and do nothing as Westminster's Broon will come up and make sure that Scotland quickly gets back to it's former begging state with Labour in charge again.
# 3 Ayrshire Scot? Yes you are the one who will get the bed in the lunatic asylum. You are the perfect English lackie. There's no way that you're a SCOT.
Check yourself in A.S.A.P.

Slainte'
13

Mercutio,

FALKIRK 19/12/2007 05:52:00
I think Mr Salmond is well able to finagle his way round any of the second rate inquisitors chosen to preside over the Holyrood Star Chamber.
14

Grahamski,

falkirk 19/12/2007 05:56:19
Good news for Scotland and democrats everywhere. It's about time our parliament brought the first minister to heel. Mr Salmond is going to have to reaslise that he is head of a minority government and is in his position only with the support of the other parties in parliament.
If he is going to play fast and loose with procedures then he is going to be slapped for it. He better learn to behave. There's a good doggy...
15

James,

Dundee, reporting the HIDDEN News 19/12/2007 06:07:14
Scottish Labour leader Wendy Alexander will have to wait until the early next year to find out whether an illegal donation to her leadership campaign is to be referred to police.

Almost three weeks ago the Scottish Labour Party admitted breaking the law by accepting a £950 cheque from a businessman resident in Jersey.

Despite at least two complaints, the police are not investigating until the matter has been considered by the official watchdog, the Electoral Commission.

It took the Electoral Commission a matter of days to call in the police over illegal payments made to the Labour Party in London.

However, yesterday it was made clear that no decision on the Alexander case will be made until after the New Year.

“The Electoral Commission will not be saying anything further on the Wendy Alexander donations issue until after the New Year holiday,” a spokesman said.

Last night Perth SNP MSP Roseanna Cunningham described the delay as outrageous.

“Wendy Alexander should be very concerned. If her evidence was so clear why is it taking so long?” she said.

“It is outrageous that the Electoral Commission won’t make a decision till the New Year when Labour MSPs have already admitted to breaking the law.

“If the commission does not act with the same haste as in England people will begin to ask questions about its role. With Lord Elder, one of Wendy’s donors, on its advisory board the commission needs to act and act now.

“The longer this is allowed to drag on, the more damage is done to Scottish politics. Let’s get this mess cleaned up now.”
16

Grahamski,

Falkirk 19/12/2007 06:13:46
James,
Oh yes that will work - cut and paste other news stories on to this thread to deflect from SNP difficulties.
17

overton,

Balmedie 19/12/2007 06:18:34
RSPB

It is interesting to note that the RSPB charity is still mouthing off about the golf development and yet they have been totally unable to let people know what bird life is actually threatened by it.
The reason:
No birds are endangered by creation of this ambitious and beneficial golf, hotel and housing development.

One wonders who is pulling their strings and why they have suddenly become interested in Menie as they have never shown any interest ever in the past - their investment in Menie has been zero and always will be zero because there are no indigenous bird species at Menie that can't be found round about.

I think we need some clarification here from the RSPB rather than intereference in an application that they actually have no interest in.
The hot air produced by the RSPB stinks a wee bit of sleeze and Martin Ford.
18

James,

dundee 19/12/2007 06:25:38
#18 Why, are you trying to protect your 'investment'?

If this newspaper is to be taken seriously then it must report on the REAL stories.

The press elsewhere report the facts, the Scotsman deflects and obscures.

This has not gone unnoticed which is why the readership of the Scotsman has dwindled.

Actually there is a parralel with the decline in membership of the New Labour Parody.

Are the two related?
19

george alexander,

north lanarkshire 19/12/2007 06:45:23
OK, it's day 10 of the non story. Thus far I've had no takers for answers to three simple questions. So I thought I'd cme to the spiritual home of the Unionist trolls.


1. What is the definition of the sleaze that the SNP are accused of?

2. What law are they supposed to have broken?

3. What evidence is there to back up these allegations?

Come on people, someone MUST know surely !!

20

jj veritas,

19/12/2007 07:05:30
"Labour backs move against another party" - what a shock? Get some news please for the paper.
21

Richard Taylor,

Aberdeen 19/12/2007 07:07:15
1. NONE

2. NONE

3. NONE
22

Mercutio,

FALKIRK 19/12/2007 07:07:52
#21 George 1)A sleazy condition, quality, or appearance
2)Ministerial Code of Conduct.
3)That is what the inquiry will determine.
I'm sure the FM will be able to defend himself don't you, or are you questions rhetorical.
23

Montague Q X Burton,

19/12/2007 07:23:50
What more is there to add, other than to say the British Unionist parties should simply stop pretending to be independent political entities and join together as one thooper Unionist party. I nominate Javkie the Hutt as their new Fuhreress.
24

Montague Q X Burton,

19/12/2007 07:24:17
Apols for typo that should read Jackie the Hutt.
25

overton,

Balmedie 19/12/2007 07:40:20
Here's an interesting letter from th P&J @ 18.12.07:

Sir, - I lived at Menie Park on the Menie Estate for nearly 40 years. Fifteen years ago, Tom Griffin purchased the property and then gradually developed the "farm" from 35 acres to over 1,000 acres, planting thousands of trees and shrubs, increasing wildlife, helping to protect and stabilise the sand dunes.

I ran the Keep Grampian Beautiful campaign for over 40 years and spent much time and effort in the work of transplanting marram grass to stabilise the sand dunes along the eastern seaboard using volunteers. During this period, none of the objectors to the Trump plan volunteered any interest or help. The same negative response came from Scottish Natural Heritage and its predecessors.

The Trump project is a godsend to the area and the majority of the local residents welcome the golf complex, but generally we disagree with the plans to build 500 houses at Menie. If the houses must be built, I suggest they are dispersed among the local villages.

I asked Mr Trump to continue his work in preserving the sand dunes and he agreed that he would.

My concern is that the objectors to this planning application have never come forward to do anything for the environment; this includes the eight councillors involved.

Paul Miller,

Mill of Blairton, Balmedie.
26

Boswall,

19/12/2007 07:51:01
Interesting that the nationalists on this forum seem to think the SNP may not be held to the same public standards they hold the other main parties to.

Here's an idea:

IMPEACH SALMOND!
27

john z,

edinburgh 19/12/2007 07:58:14
The democratically elected first minister of Scotland has done, and is doing exactly what he should do, standing up for his constituents and ALL of Scotland.

I just cannot believe the Liberal Democrats are going down this route of working with the dirty filthy sleazebags called labour. Can the liberals not see what is going on??? Are they really so dumb??

Salmond has done nothing wrong, and bendy Wendy is the one who should resign after admitting willfully breaching regulations on funding for her own leadership election.

All of this hoo ha over salmond, is nothing but a smokescreeen, perpetuated by trashy unionist papers such as the scotsman.

The Trump development WILL be good for all of Scotland. As for the RSPB, they stopped getting taken seriously many years ago when they stopped being concerned with birds, and started campaigning about global warming.

Please note, the RSPB is not the bird protecting charity of many years ago, it is just yet another group of loony lefty eco-warrior groups who have taken over a good name.
28

An English voice:::,

Flawkirk 19/12/2007 08:05:23
'BOSWALL' talks Bollecks.
29

Ken Mac,

Glasgow 19/12/2007 08:14:50
Grahamski & Boswell. Deluded straw clutchers. This whole episode is damaging politics in Scotland, wasting time and money. It is damaging our image abroad and potentially damaging our ability to attract inward investment. You idiots are desperate to find anything to smear Salmond and the SNP. The opposition parties are similiarly desperate to get anything on Salmond. There is nothing to investigate which is quite clear from the evidence we have. Try supporting Scotland for a change. Say goodbye to Nicol Stephen, the outcome of this will finish his career.

#27 Overton. Very interesting post.
30

donald,

glasgow 19/12/2007 08:18:12
What a surprise. Eck will still trounce them.
31

Colkitto,

River Clyde 19/12/2007 08:22:38
The opposition Party's are desperate to land a punch on Salmond. Since they have been unable to do it in Parliament, this is their only chance, and not a very good one at that. Their hope is they keep the sleeze allegation going for as long as possible in a mud sticks sort of way.
Already this has backfired as the public seem unnafected towards Salmond in all of this as recent polls verify
32

juan kerr and his dead magic hands, now re risen.,

19/12/2007 08:32:34
this letter to the P&J is very interesting. It highlights how this "row" is just a smokescreen for ressentment at weatlh and political point scoring.I would not blame trump if he packs his bags and goes. The parliament needs to grow up and the nimbies need to get with the real and continualy developing world.

"Here's an interesting letter from th P&J @ 18.12.07:

Sir, - I lived at Menie Park on the Menie Estate for nearly 40 years. Fifteen years ago, Tom Griffin purchased the property and then gradually developed the "farm" from 35 acres to over 1,000 acres, planting thousands of trees and shrubs, increasing wildlife, helping to protect and stabilise the sand dunes.

I ran the Keep Grampian Beautiful campaign for over 40 years and spent much time and effort in the work of transplanting marram grass to stabilise the sand dunes along the eastern seaboard using volunteers. During this period, none of the objectors to the Trump plan volunteered any interest or help. The same negative response came from Scottish Natural Heritage and its predecessors.

The Trump project is a godsend to the area and the majority of the local residents welcome the golf complex, but generally we disagree with the plans to build 500 houses at Menie. If the houses must be built, I suggest they are dispersed among the local villages.

I asked Mr Trump to continue his work in preserving the sand dunes and he agreed that he would.

My concern is that the objectors to this planning application have never come forward to do anything for the environment; this includes the eight councillors involved.

Paul Miller,

Mill of Blairton, Balmedie."
33

Scotland to prosper...,

19/12/2007 08:54:13
It is shameful the way the unionist parties have banded together to accuse the First Minister of wrongdoing. They seem to believe that if they ask enough questions, they will create enough doubt to tarnish Salmonds reputation.
However what is more shameful is how they are jeopardising one of the North Easts biggest ever investments with they're amateur attempts at political points scoring. What kind of message does it send out to the rest of the world?
This petty squabbling over "who said what to who and when" reveals the unionist parties to be backward and unwilling to see the bigger picture. What people want to see is opposition parties acknowledging the potential of the Trump project and supporting the Government with its attempt to secure the development. It’s bordering on pathetic just how this whole affair has been blown out of proportion.

It has taken the coming together of all the unionist parties to unite behind a non-starter and try to land a feeble political blow on the First Minister, Salmond should take it as a compliment.
34

juan kerr and his dead magic hands, now re risen.,

19/12/2007 09:05:16
#38 - how stupid would they look if Trump said tomorrow, forget it ! I am of to Northern Ireland?

A bunch of bumbling fools, playing games with peoples futures.

I hope the Lib Dem, labour and Conservative Electorate in the area remember this.

Meanwhile in the real world , Wendies fraud and use of tax payers money to fund election camapaigns goes unreported.

Have journalists became so much a part of the party machine?
35

Steve,

Bo'ness 19/12/2007 09:09:33
38, well said.
There's not a shred of evidence to suggest Salmond has done anything wrong. It's all bluster and insinuation.
Meanwhile Wendy Alexander and her cohorts seem to have slipped off the radar. Coincidence?

It just proves the level of sheer bitterness towards the SNP, that unionists will risk destroying investment to try and blacken Alex Salmond's reputation. Absolutely dispicable.

36

jenny,

musselburgh 19/12/2007 09:11:37
Oh that Trump was only applying for planning permission for a golf course. Don't forget that this scheme also includes a massive housing development. If the planning process is pushed aside, it leaves the doors open, for example, for the guy in Wallyford to use the same argument for getting his housing/supermarket/hotel etc. to fund the proposed greyhound stadium there. If the planning processes had not run their due course, Musselburgh might have been blighted with an all-weather race course. The rules and regulations are there for a reason and just because Mr Trump appears to be a bully, is no reason to let him have his way.
37

Advance Alba,

London 19/12/2007 09:12:21
I must confess to astonishment that the police have not yet started an investigation into the Labour in Scotland self confessed illegal acts. Complaints have been made by members of the public, yet the police are waiting, allegedly, for the nod from the Electoral Commission to start their work. Meanwhile evidence is easy to dispose of or "rearrange". Why are they waiting? Now it is they themselves whose activities arouse suspicion. They make the Protiguese police loook wonderful in comparison. Or are there other, more sinister reasons in Red Strathclyde?
38

morris,

edinburgh 19/12/2007 09:20:05
15

No doubt that is true.With the possible exception of Golden Annabelle, Salmond will wipe the floor with them.Thats NOT what the Press will report however!
The very fact that there is a mickey mouse question and answer session is supposed to justify the absolute claptrap that this and other chip wrappers will publish.
They have no choice ALL THREE UNIONIST PARTIES have now been caught at it. They show their true colours,and unless they can sully Salmond they will be lost for ever in Scotland.They are definitely guilty,and they have to infer that the SNP are also guilty or suspected of something (even though NO LAW HAS BEEN BROKEN).You are being taken for a ride SCOTLAND,which is not too hard apparently.(You did think you would be better off of you gave LONDON 236 billion in oil revenues after all)

Alex Salmond is the bona fide elected member for Gordon and its as simple as that.He has the perfect reason to be involved and the three UNIONIST parties know this fully well. The meeting which was secretive was advertised in the local press,and this is a silly wee laddie called Nicol Stephen making a Nicolarse of him self,and they MUST have some kind of question session or admit they manufactured this to deflect heat from MOUTH of the SOUTH,knowing fully well they too had a case to answer in the pipeline.

Its bad enough that Scotland is held up to ridicule internationally,its unforgivable that we should support the IDIOTS responsible!What does that make the Scots?
Those who seek to defend the indefensible should be treated accordingly!OUT!
39

Nikostratos,

19/12/2007 09:21:13
Look at all the snp drones in a panic frighten at what may be dragged out of their leader..Put the spotlight on him make him squeal like a pig knock some poll ratings out of him.

And as for our Wendy forget it she's completely innocent and we would all much discuss the snps c'ck up.
this being a unionist paper and all ..he..he..he

and remember the police is a 'unionist' force
40

morris,

edinburgh 19/12/2007 09:25:36
42

The longer they delay ,clearly the more fixing needed to be done. They have already shown how rotten the whole system has become,by their delay.Even SHEERLUCK HOLMES would know any delay means any evidence will have been removed.

Its beyond the intellectual capacity of the Labour Numpties to work that out of course,even when you tell them!Either that or they are the same. Either way they are unfit for office.
41

morris,

edinburgh 19/12/2007 09:39:48
41

Jenny What part of 90% of the people living there want it ,do you not understand?
No law has been broken.
The Full Council backed the scheme!
Lib Dem councillors ared defecting?
HOW MUCH MORE PROOF DO YOU NEED that No wrong doing exists here other than Nicol Stephen made a complete and total fool of himself.

His own party do not support him!
42

Linda,

Edinburgh 19/12/2007 09:43:35
Morris is right read postings 27 and 29
43

banthebomb,

19/12/2007 09:43:50
#19 & # 36

A very interesting letter posted by a local who has on the ground experience of living on the contested ground.I understand his concern re the housing. I'll bet none of the local sustainables have any of this type of experience on which to base their offered opinions.
It now convinces me more than ever that Martin Ford , Debra Storr , RSPB,SNH , Sustainable Aberdeenshire and the rest are no more than a bunch of Johnny come Latelys gathered under an Eco Banner.Scaremongers every one of them.

I also note that the well known botanist and environmental campaigner David Bellamy had made comment on the proposed developement in an article in The Sunday Times dated 16 th Dec. He was broadly supportive of the developement saying that in his experience golf courses and nature are harmonious companions.
Of course this is something that most folks in our region know to be the case .





44

JayJay,

Right here 19/12/2007 09:49:36
Aside from the permanently retarded - those who would vote for Saddam Hussain if he was a Labour candidate - I suspect a good chunk of Scotland's population can see this for what it is. Political opportunism on the part of the Tories, a wee favour from Nicol to his old chums and a great opportunity to call in a few favours from political journalists who seem wholly unwilling to press on with the real story...that being the shenanigans at Labour HQ.
Honestly, how predictable to find that the "get to christmas, they'll all get p!ssed and forget about it" strategy has been adopted. How predictable that a compliant Electoral Commission, with Wendy fans/donors involved at the highest level can't get its act together until January. The comparison with the police handling of Tommy the Trot is just risible.
Sometimes when I see politicians smirk, I think they know something I don't know. And wee Wendy knows all too well that, despite cack handed media management, despite lies that would have shamed Pinnochio, despite being the head of a party of utter lightweights, and, most laughably, despite admitting guilt, she will get away with it. You just don't spend your life around people with influence and not be able to call in a few favours in your hour of need.
Meanwhile a development that a large majority of the locals want is jeopardised by a bunch of pygmy politicians. All the while the notion that Scotland is "open for business" is subject to further ridicule across the western world.
I suppose we all should be grateful that we get to see Wendy through 2008 making an utter backside of herself at FMQ. I do hope she at least starts checking her facts before she opens her gub.
45

Douglas Eckhart,

Edinburgh 19/12/2007 10:21:37
North East Against Nicol Stephen:

TODAY'S ABERDEEN PRESS & JOURNAL:

BUSINESSES CONDEMN LIB DEMS OVER TRUMP PLANS

08:50 - 19 December 2007

Furious members of the north-east business community last night accused Liberal Democrat leader Nicol Stephen of "hijacking" attempts to get Donald Trump's £1billion golf-resort proposals back on track, and branded his party "anti-business".

Some 20 people have joined forces to accuse the Aberdeen South MSP of attacking the SNP Government to score "cheap political points".



Mr Stephen, who said there was a "smell of sleaze" about the way the government had handled the issue, claims he is concerned that the sequence of events leading up to the application being "called in" on December 4 could leave the proposal open to a legal challenge in the courts.

His official spokesman said last night that he was broadly in favour of the plans for the Menie Estate near Balmedie and it was "plain nonsense" to suggest the party was anti-business because it strives hard to promote the north-east economy.

However, the business consortium - which includes Jim Byers who runs the Brentwood Hotel, Ian Lakin, chairman of the Gordon Highlanders Museum, Stewart Spence, owner of the Marcliffe hotel and Rosemary Pittendrigh, managing secretary of Cruden Bay Golf Club - strongly disagree.

They claim Mr Stephen has ignored the views of the vast majority of his constituents and was "slinging mud" at the SNP at the expense of the proposals.

In a letter to the P &J, the group states: "Having spoken to numerous north-east people, the firm belief is that the position taken by Aberdeenshire councillor Martin Ford, the abstentions of certain Liberal Democrat Aberdeenshire councillors, and the position of Nicol Stephen, shows that the Liberal Democrats are anti-business for north-east Scotland.

"There are times when opposition politics should take second place to the greater good which, in this case, is ensuring that a developme
46

Banana Heid,

Ayrshire 19/12/2007 10:39:25
3 Main Scottish opposition parties get together to ensure even more votes go to the SNP at the next election. If only they were that cooperative with each other when in coalition. Egg in their faces is what I see. Why dont they just merge into "The Anglo Unionist Party"
47

banthebomb,

19/12/2007 10:43:40
There is no question that the Lib Dems at all levels have soiled their nest here in N.E. Scotland.

Their only saving grace is that there is a considerable period of time to pass before we have the chance to vent our spleen.

I am no Nationalist but applaud the SNP for their involvement in their attempts in trying to get this project back on track.
I doubt that any of the other parties would have had the balls or nous to act in a similar fashion.

In a way it starts to make one wonder , which party really does have our National interest closet to their hearts ?
48

morris,

edinburgh 19/12/2007 10:48:05
49 JayJay

That just about puts the whole charade into a nutshell!

Congratulations.
Now the question is HOW do we get it through the numpties heads ?
49

Doh,

19/12/2007 10:50:44
#50

The fact that a handful of pro-Trump businessmen want to denigrate Stephen only makes his stand more admirable.

Most businessmen support the Tories and now it woudl appear their Tartan chums in the SNP.

It takes courgage to stand up against the majority and the bullying and partisan hectoring of business.

Makes you wonder who is suppossed to be running this country. Trump and some businessmen or democratically elected politicans (some of whom may support a minority view).

Is this what the SNP calls independance?
Trump calls the shots and no one shoudl dare disagree or ask that proper procedures are followed.

If Salmond wants to show leadership he should admit that meeting the Trump people was unwise the day before the plan was called in.

Or does he prefer to be seen as Trump's puppet?


50

AJ Fife,

19/12/2007 10:53:12
#44,

Your Leader will be delighted to take on the opposition concerning the Trump development planning. Alex Salmond is fireproof, purely through his high level of integrity and his Statesmanship quality.

He's the best Leader you have ever had, you're just too dense to realise it - much like every other unionist on this board!
51

AJ Fife,

19/12/2007 10:55:03
#55
Statesmanship should be Statesmanlike.

But you catch ma drift, you bunch of unionist losers!
52

Doh,

19/12/2007 10:57:33
#43 morris

FYI Salmond has welcomed the chance to appear before the committee.

The leader has spoken, accept it, he perhaps feels that even he should be subject to some scrutiny even if you dont like it.

BTW the only thing that is makign Scotland look ridiculus is the way that we are willing to bend the rules for Trump.

Luckily they dont have any planning laws in Northern Ireland or the USA. Right.

53

morris,

edinburgh 19/12/2007 10:59:31
52

I think you already KNOW the answer .(Its just come as a bit of a surprise to you).

Your assessment is a very honest one.
I'm sure the local SNP would be very pleased to hear from you. You are as ready as anybody ever could be !
One thing I have known as a memeber of 40 years standing. The SNP has never ever been anything other than a party in love with its people.
Its up to Scots themselves to work out who would be more likley to be Scotlands True friend? A party whose HQ is in Edinburgh or parties whose HQ are in LONDON ?Im sure if you think about it you will soon realise the answer.

WHILST ITS TRUE to say that Independence is not the answer to everything.....................................
its also true to say that the Union is not the answer to anything!
54

Il Penseroso,

19/12/2007 11:08:43
I read some folks want Alex Salmond impeached! If Tony Blair can get away with murder then Salmond has nothing to fear! Maybe the delay in bringing forward the case of Wendy Alexander hinges on a time break to consult the "midden of democracy" at Westminster. Just a thought!
55

Rod5577,

Glasgow 19/12/2007 11:10:33
For the enlightment of all those of us who do not know the difference in Alex Salmond having a meeting with Trumps representatives - and those against the development - and Jack McConnell, as First Minister, flying Trumps Representatives, at public expense, round Scotland could one of your political "journalist" please explain? It is very frustating when innuendo forms the main trust of recent Scotsman stories instead of a balanced critique of all the Parties involved. I suggest that if Trump withdraws that other, much needed, potential investors will be discouraged by the outrageous and blatant Unionist actions over this issue
56

morris,

edinburgh 19/12/2007 11:11:53
57
Doh
I know you are a Lib Dem supporter.
The Press and Journal have covered this story and theres only ONE person at faultas far as they can see. NICOL STEPHEN.
90% of Aberdeenshire want him OUT.Malcom Bruce has probably lost his Westminster seat now also (Time will tell if that is correct but local opinion would destroy him right now)
Four LD councillors have defected according to yesterdays reports .
Its only because they are still recovering from having assassinated Charles Kennedy, and have just elected a new leader nationally, that they dont string Nicol up also!

No law has been broken ! The investigation is to try and cover up Nicols stupidity and deflect heat from Wendy who is guilty and admitted it, and in any case she has been caught again!

You can protect your party line,but the opinion polls are showing a surge in SNP support.
The people decide these things and at the moment its Goodbye Lib Dems and Goodbye UK !
57

banthebomb,

19/12/2007 11:18:27
#58

As you say , I KNOW the answer about who cares most.

Only thing is I would fear for what would happen if Independence Day ever came around.

A splintering of a party into a red , blue and yellow strands with red predominating?



58

morris,

edinburgh 19/12/2007 11:21:43
59

I think you may have hit a lot nearer the head of the nail than you possibly realise.(Forgive me if you are only too well aware of this,I needed a start line from somewhere)
The New Labour voters dont care whether its possible or justified.Anything will do for them ,including a complete and total numpty nonsense like this.In effect what Labour are saying is OUR SUPPORTERS ARE SO STUPID THEY WILL BELIVE THIS RUBBISH!

Salmond tried to impeach Blair after all.

Tit for tat. (Thats about Labours level)


Impeach:to accuse (a public official) before an appropriate tribunal of misconduct in office.

It does not say he has to be guilty,only accused please note.

Salmond will not only walk away unscathed(despite what the Unionist Press report to the contrary).
NO LAW HAS BEEN BROKEN> He is the MSP for Gordon !ITS HIS JOB!
59

Doh,

19/12/2007 11:25:08
#61 morris

I am indeed a LibDem supporter so can assure you that Charles Kennedy was not assassinated. How very melodramatic. The real world is often less exciting.

What party line am I supporting?

This is a dispute about a planning application, and why Trump needs or deserves special treatment.

Salmond has welcomed the opportunity to appear before this committee.

2 SNP councillots voted against the Trump proposals?
Are they traitor? Are they being deselected?
Are you trying to make politcial mischief?
Sounds like it.


As for what is going on in Aberdeenshire - I dont know I live in Edinburgh. But I doubt your analysis is right. Remember just before the May election, the SNP wee 10% ahead. Didnt happen.

Calm down as accept that scrutiny of the government is to be welcomed not suppressed by the bullying of businessmen.
60

Edward,

19/12/2007 11:25:14
This is pure farce!
The SNP government have been looking after the interests of Scotland
We have the rather pathetic RSPB lobbying not to have any development in the North East of Scotland (tell me RSPB members, what will provide Scotland and the Scots guaranteed income and investment a) A top class Golf course or b) Some Birdwatchers?)Recomend that anyone that subscribes to the RSPB dump them!
We have an equally pathetic self serving self publicist Nicol Stephens trying to make out that the Scottish Governments support for the Golf course was under handed and illegal, where as the SNP government were very open about what they were doing and actually did nothing illegal.
Where as Wendy Alexander and the Scottish Labour party have been caught doing just about everything there is illegal, yet neither the Libdems nor the Tories will do anything about it as they are som in bed together for there own political ends!
We have a press that is so bias that it would rather report a non story based on lies and innuendo than report the sleaze that pervades the Labour party in Scotland.
Thanks to the likes of Nicol Stephens and Windy as well as the Scottish press, Scotland is fast becoming a joke
61

Calum10,

19/12/2007 11:32:04
A complete climb down by the Unionist MSPs.

Nicol Numptie Stephen, David Taxi McLetchie and Jackie Blobby Baillie have made complere fools of themselves.
62

morris,

edinburgh 19/12/2007 11:36:11
62
Again I applaud your honesty !
The SNP would both still exist ,and lose members ,and would be a transitionary government only with an election following within a suitable timescale. YOu would indeed get what you voted for,thats true.What that would be I have no idea ,but I agree the prospect of Wendy Alexander being Scotlands Prime Minister would be frightening . The only thing I can say to you is democracy gives us what we deserve. Maybe Cathy Jaimieson would lose her somwhere?

We could get her anywway if we dont leave the UK !
63

banthebomb,

19/12/2007 11:39:25
#62

What a dreadful thought ?

One thing is for sure, we will not be getting Nicol Stephen !
64

juan kerr and his dead magic hands, now re risen.,

19/12/2007 11:40:57
#62 - It is about time all parties stopped the pointless heckling and worked for the interests of a better Scotland.

Any investment from anwhere in the world is now in jeopardy due to this farcical charade.

I know exaclty which party has Scotlands interests at heart and which clearly don't
65

ochone,

Sauchie, Clack's 19/12/2007 11:47:08
May I once again thank the unionist party's and their supporters for another great day for the SNP.

Please keep it coming, your doing a great job.
66

morris,

edinburgh 19/12/2007 12:00:29
64

Doh
I live near Edinburgh also.(well actually within it,but only just)
The Press and Journal does not!
It serves the North/North East of Scotland and is Aberdeen based.

What we were given in the SCOTSMAN and the HERALD contrasted with the local paper and they reported the "secret" meeting before it happened,and they reported local feeling at 90% supporting Salmond.I have not made this up !
I do however acknowledge that two SNP councillors also were involved. Im still pointing out the LIbs are defecting !Why is what you should be asking! Its hardly a vote of confidence is it?

I am disapointed in the two SNP councillors .They will no doubt answer to their electorate also.
Nicol has made an absolute hee haw of himself and theres no getting away from it.
67

BMeister,

19/12/2007 12:30:14
Wini
Haven't you posted 72,73 ans 74 every time this story has been run (i.e. every day)
68

Calum Crubag,

19/12/2007 12:37:13
Labour backs Tories? Again?? Wendy and her Labour and Unionist Party.
69

AJ Fife,

19/12/2007 13:07:56
Wini,

Is that you chatting again?
70

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

19/12/2007 13:40:33
Imagine the scenario.

Gordon Brown meets a mega-rich businessman.

The next day a decision is announced that favours said businessman.

Imagine now the SNP reaction . . .

That's why I still stand by comments regards hypocrisy. If it was alright for the SNP in opposition to question why the First Minister (Jack McConnell) met Trump in 2006 (as Nicola Sturgeon did)it is only right that the opposition can do the same now.

The opposition are not saying that anything untoward has happened but that it is not clear what the complete circumstances of the various meetings and how the decision to call-in the application was made.

Many Nats here deliberately confuse support for the development with support for the PROCESS by which the decision was made.

For me the biggest issue has to be the whole timing of events - is it just sheer coincidence or not?

Unfortuantely, we have also seen elsewhere how hypocritical some Nats can be - witness the two councillors who voted with Martin Ford against the application yet proceeded to vote him off as the committee chair. That action is despicable and they quite honestly are a pair of hypocritical scumbags.

We see it here too - we have the public welcoming of an investigation by Alex Salmond whilst the grass roots and PR machine deliberately try to rubbish or play down that investigation.

One has to ask - why?
71

overton,

Balmedie 19/12/2007 13:49:17
80 The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),:

Aye you ask why, but you don't really care anyway and neither does anyone else including the soon to disappear of the face of the earth Lb Dems.
The vast majority of people in Aberdeenshire just hope that the SNP Government get this project approved pronto and let Mr Trump start building.

79 Wini,:
Please don't come back until after you've had your electric shock treatment - we might get some sense out of you then.
72

AJ Fife,

19/12/2007 14:14:27
Wini#79,

That's ok then....we can carry on our chat then!
73

Anec Dotal,

Ukraine 19/12/2007 14:17:46
Anec no like Alexei Sammond. He like Stalin big bullie.
74

alanh,

19/12/2007 14:22:25
#80 Fed
you keep saying the same thing on hese threads and making a comparrison beween jsck and eck.

Again I'll repeat the reason for the difference in case youv missed it........Jack is NOT the msp for that region unlike Eck who is. As First minister eck is NOT allowed to show favour and support to one side, altho Jasck did while spending a lot of our money promoting the deal with trump(only wrong in a political pointy scoring way ,imo, cos it was FOR our country).But as msp for that area it is expected of him to see all sides of this argument, which he has tried to do

"The opposition are not saying anything untoward has happenned" but are hiding behinmd groundless Smell/hint of sleeze with NO FACTS to back it up.

As for the 2 NAT councillors, I wasnt present at the comittee meeting but a good few people have commented that it was normal in these sort of situations to not use the casting vote to return it to the full council. Maybe, I dont know just guessing, they expected that? Are they the only ones that voted him out or were the other 4 invisible?

Why? simply cos most fair minded people see this very long running non story for what it is .....ABSOLUTELY NOTHING except deflection from the admitted illegal conduct by Wendy and co. Most people are in favour of the development and see this petty pointscoring as a way that the deal may be lost.Another reason, for me, is that WE have to pay for this garbage when our money should be better spent in getting on with things
75

Mr. Lachie Todd,

Edinburgh 19/12/2007 14:30:34
The desperate Scots Unionist parties have collectively been unable to cope with the SNP Government and this could be a possible way of at least embarrassing Gallus Alex over planning procedures, although nobody seriously believes that he, or any other member of his government, sought financial benefit?

It is ironic that the indigenous Tory who is making this proposal was until recently himself the subject of a very real corruption enquiry!

It cost him the leadership of the indigenous Tory Party, after it was discovered that he had circumnavigated Scotland in a fleet of taxis, and then had the brass neck to claim £11,500 in MSP's expenses!

He claimed that many taxi fares had been claimed in "error" but he was forced to repay some of the money!

To this day, the mocking cry of "Taxi for McLetchie"!
rings throughout the pubs and clubs of Scotland!
76

BMeister,

19/12/2007 14:47:26
#86 Methalions
As long as you happen to be on one of the two or three routes that are serviced of course.
77

 Ayrshire Scot™,

19/12/2007 14:50:20
86 Nicol Stephens will be taking a taxi around that by-passs in his constituency he opposed as Deputy FM in breach of the ministerial code, as it was near one of his houses (but not the house he was found gulity of breaking parliamentary expenses over, in Nov 2006, by claiming mortgage interest payments under false information).

He smells of sleaze.
78

Linda,

Edinburgh 19/12/2007 14:52:26
BMeister

Only money for one tram route and that duplicates the No 22 bus route which already has the most frequent
service in Edinburgh.
79

 Ayrshire Scot™,

19/12/2007 14:53:29
87 I hope the new tram routes don't go near Nicol Stephens house in Edinburgh. Then he would have to campaign for another route publicly. Don't want him interfering in any more planning applications in breach of the rules.....

"Mr Stephen broke the ministerial code of conduct during the last Scottish government by coming out in favour of a particular route for the planned Aberdeen bypass. "
http://news.bbc.co.uk/nolpda/ukfs_news/hi/newsid_7146000/7146632.stm?item=11062007new
80

 Ayrshire Scot™,

19/12/2007 14:56:58
85 Was there not some discussion that Mr McCletchie, who had to repay some of the taxi fares he falsely claimed, had claimed for journeys to visit a lady friend? This stalward gaurdian of public probity, along with Nicol-mortage-payments-Stephen, seem just the chaps to allege sleaze in others.

I am wiring this on a normal computer. My application for tax payer funding for one of those "Computers for Labour" was inexplicably rejected.
81

Buchanan,

Los Altos Hills 19/12/2007 15:07:59
I apologize for being a bit off topic but I have received a response from my official complaint to
Scotland that I believe points to at least negligence
if not out and out bias in one of our main media
sources.

My official complaint was -

"I am concerned that the BBC is again showing bias against the
move for Scottish independence.
A recent poll showing Independence support at 22% featured heavily at the top of BBC Ceefax Scotland (page 160 Ceefax) and on BBC
Online, both UK and Scotland.
The latest poll by TNS System Three finding 40% seeking independence is nowwhere to be found never might even getting equal billing. "

The response I got was -

"The findings of the TNS System Three poll to which you
refer was not made available to BBC Scotland. Had it
been, we would have reported its findings.

Regards,
Mark Coyle,
Editor, Continuous News, BBC Scotland"

Evidently 'investigative journalism" is not something
the BBC undertakes at least not when it shows the Union
in a negative light. Clearly at BBC Scotland nobody
reads either of the top Scottish Newspapers - the
Herald or the Scotsman since all they would have to
have done for the story to be "available" would be to
pick up a paper.The BBC seems to have no problem giving
top billing stories like 22% independence support and
this Salmond/Trump farce.

I have now put in an additional complaint to their
response including a link to the TNS System 3 Poll
showing a significant increase in support for
independence so that it is now available to them. I
look forward to them publishing this significant poll.

For anybody else that wants to make an Official
Complaint the link is

http://www.bbc.co.uk/complaints/make_complaint_step1.shtml
82

banthebomb,

19/12/2007 15:18:40
#84

Of the six who supported Ford in the tied 7-7 vote
2 SNP voted against him , 2 abstained and 2 supported him in the vote of no confidence.

If one of the four who did not support him ultimately had voted differently we would not be having this discussion.

Mind you it is pantomine season but no one could have scripted this one !!



83

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

19/12/2007 15:26:55
#84 Let's put this in terms even you can understand.

Firstly, Alex Salmond was not only a constituency MSP but ALSO the First Minster whose Governemenbt made the decision to call in the application. That is a conflict of interest in anyone's terms.

Or are you trying to argue that the First Minster should not be responsible for any decision taken by his Government?

Secondly, the timing of the decision - that in itself raises a number of issues - why meet if the decision had been taken? What could they possibly be talking about if it was not the application - the price of milk?

Some of you on this forum take us for fools.
84

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

19/12/2007 15:28:24
#84 The other four councillors did not vote against martin Ford - two voted against his removal and two others abstained. Only the two SNP councillors voted for his removal - they are SCUMBAGS - no two ways about it.
85

W U Merchant,

Aberdeen 19/12/2007 15:34:13
What are the powers of the group which will conduct this "parliamentary inquiry"? There should be a full public inquiry.
86

 Ayrshire Scot™,

19/12/2007 15:39:56
98 The unionist parties voted against a public inquiry.

Should there be an inquiry into the £40,000 of tax payers money sent to "Computers for Labour"?
87

W U Merchant,

Aberdeen 19/12/2007 15:43:14
99

Yes.
88

Richard Taylor,

Aberdeen 19/12/2007 15:50:54
Unionist parties immersed in sleaze & scandal.

Surely a free & independent Scotland is the only way ahead now.

What possible reason could you have for voting for the likes of the Labour(ious) party or the Lib Dums anymore?

They're all finished.
89

banthebomb,

19/12/2007 15:58:57
#97

If you read closely you will see that I never said 4 voted against Ford.

2 voted against him & 2 abstained, ultimately these 4 did not give him their support.

Actually I have more respect for the 2 SNP councillors than for the cowardly 2 who did not vote.

In any case Ford was deposed. Given that his record of obstruction to several significant local projects had been given exposure it would have been very embarassing for Aberdeenshire Council had he remained in situ.

This Trump project ultimately was the catalyst for his demise as it will be for a few others I would imagine.
90

Nikostratos,

19/12/2007 16:01:31
#93

Oh do shut up..Red liner you..boring so what who cares do we look as if we care? ..no
91

Nikostratos,

19/12/2007 16:02:03
#99

no
92

 Ayrshire Scot™,

19/12/2007 16:08:05
104 Why not?

£40,000 of tax payer money, in parliamentary allowances, sent to a company which does political campaigns, and is based in Labour HQ, and no inquiry? How strange your logic is.
93

 Ayrshire Scot™,

19/12/2007 16:09:07
103 How rude. I thought it was quite interesting. As to what you look like, that is anyone's guess. Shreeek.
94

 Ayrshire Scot™,

19/12/2007 16:14:15
107 sleay drones
95

 Ayrshire Scot™,

19/12/2007 16:21:16
110 Oh, I see what you mean. Sleazy jingling drones
96

 Ayrshire Scot™,

19/12/2007 16:24:00
109 But less fluffy we hope
97

Nikostratos,

19/12/2007 16:29:32
#106 Ayrshire Scot™

I am a celebrity lookalike and here he is only i am not so hairy.. i actually look exactly like him this is true oh yes.

http://www.internetstart.se/bildgalleri/pics/01041.jpg
98

 Ayrshire Scot™,

19/12/2007 16:31:05
118 This is perhaps not a good thing :-)
99

 Ayrshire Scot™,

19/12/2007 16:31:46
118 Could you not have picked a more attractive celeb to look like?
100

juan kerr and his dead magic hands, now re risen.,

19/12/2007 16:33:15
#73/74 - WINI- You posted that monologue yesterday. Are you taking a leaf out of AM2's guide to droaning?
101

 Ayrshire Scot™,

19/12/2007 16:38:41
123 Can you get a helicopter taxi?
102

Conan the Librarian™,

19/12/2007 16:54:42
118
Uncanny.I too have a celeb lookylikey.

http://www.geocities.com/movias/gladiator.jpg

Does anyone else?

103

BMeister,

19/12/2007 17:00:13
#122 juan
I mentioned this to her earler and she admitted that she had posted that 4 times and 72 yesterday too but felt she had to repost them as they 'had got lost in the chat'.

Presumably she felt that they were more important than most of the other posts and that that the reason they had not formed the centrepiece of a serious political discussion is that they had got lost in the dross, not that people had read them but not felt them worth commenting on.

C'est la vie
104

BMeister,

19/12/2007 17:01:58
#127 Conan
Lookeylikey or drinkylikey?
105

juan kerr and his dead magic hands, now re risen.,

19/12/2007 17:05:09
http://tinyurl.com/ywjoan - Wendies New adviser is a trough swilling pig

106

,

19/12/2007 17:06:09
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
107

 Ayrshire Scot™,

19/12/2007 17:08:12
130 Niko was Bob Hoskins.

I look like myself. Which is as it should be. I'll send you an autographed picture, for £995 drawn on an offshore account.
108

BMeister,

19/12/2007 17:13:34
#134 Ayrshire
You're right, presumably this board is full of enlightened discussion of them. I'll check.

Oh no, mostly just chat and narey a mention.

It must be so disheartening.

Still, maybe she could form her own discussion board, I hear that Ford chappie has a lot of time on her hands, Ms Wendy doesn't seem to have been doing much recently (if anything) and Nicol Stephen will probably be free come the next election.
109

gus1940,

Edinburgh 19/12/2007 17:14:42
Wot no AM2
110

Conan the Librarian™,

19/12/2007 17:16:55
131

Heh.Fifty-fifty.
111

 Ayrshire Scot™,

19/12/2007 17:17:03
139 Jerry Spinger? eeeeek, well maybe in 30 years.....
112

 Ayrshire Scot™,

19/12/2007 17:18:49
140 That doesn't work. I will just have to guess. Squeals of horror.
113

BMeister,

19/12/2007 17:19:34
#137 - his hands - I must have been thinking of Wendy as I typed. Time for a stiff drink methinks.
114

 Ayrshire Scot™,

19/12/2007 17:20:09
143 Its tiny in fact
115

Conan the Librarian™,

19/12/2007 17:22:23
Methalions

http://www.tenfor.com/images/galeria/licor_43.jpg
116

,

19/12/2007 17:22:26
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
117

Nikostratos,

19/12/2007 17:23:16
#130 spook

try this i.m off on prezzy delivery for now.

http://images.contactmusic.com/images/artist/bobhoskinsap.jpg

#127 more like this

http://www.billsykesimages.co.uk//i/global/billsikes1.jpg

118

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

19/12/2007 17:23:49
'#99 Ayrshire Scot™,19/12/2007 15:39:56

Should there be an inquiry into the £40,000 of tax payers money sent to "Computers for Labour"?'

I've no problem with Labour (or any other party) being investigated.

What I don't want is Labour's antics used as an excuse (and you are a prime culprit by the way) not to do anything about this particular issue.

I'd rather questions were asked and honest answers given instead of the charade we have of spin and spin that almost all parties indulge in.

#123 Peter, I repeat what I said above to Ayrshire - why should that be used as an excuse not to investigate here?
119

 Ayrshire Scot™,

19/12/2007 17:23:55
150 How very, very dare you. I may put a pic of myself on your blog to dispel this slur :-)
120

 Ayrshire Scot™,

19/12/2007 17:26:46
156 What issue? What code has been breached, or what law is alleged to have been broken? The FM is entitled to meet on this, as long as he meets all sides. Salmond backed the plans publicly before he was FM, aslo as he is intitled to do.

There is a HUGE difference between Labour's admitted illegality, abuse of public funds, and Salmond meeting an investor, within all rules.
121

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

19/12/2007 17:26:58
#122 Juan - I think we all cut and paste our OWN comments occasionally - especially if it is ground that has already been gone over or if it is an issue that is in multiple threads.

And there have been a few of these belive me on this particular topic.
122

 Ayrshire Scot™,

19/12/2007 17:37:56
164 Talking with Wini is WORK
123

Conan the Librarian™,

19/12/2007 17:42:45
165
That's exactly why it won't happen Spook.
124

Miss Jean Brodie,

19/12/2007 17:44:30
after this affair Independence for Scotland will go up from the 59% polled ‘for it’ to at least another 10% for it - sheesh! these unionist agitators need their bahookies kicked !

Its the Lib/Lab/Con fad against the people of Scotland at every turn.
125

Conan the Librarian™,

19/12/2007 17:45:03
164
My shifts vary between 10am to 8pm.
But I have tea breaks;-)
126

Eve,

Scotland 19/12/2007 17:48:59
#28 Boswall: ha, ha!!!! What you like!!!! Are you blinded by hate or some thing cause your drastic solutions are very far feched.

If you were to do that you'd need to do it to all other country leader first because they are all guilty of so much more and have so much more power than Holyrood has.
127

 Ayrshire Scot™,

19/12/2007 17:50:10
171 I work for Alexander, Baillie and Company, a publicly funded company for laundering things. They are not fussy how tax payers money is used, and encourages me in party political activities using here office. I am waitng for my new £40k computer to be delivered. It s from "computers for Labour". It does spread sheets and thank you letters.
128

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

19/12/2007 17:54:31
#160 Issues still need clarified, not just byu Alex salmond but also by others such as John Swinney:

1. Who accompanied the FM to the meetings?

2. Were there any civil servants accompanying him - even though he was there in the capacity of an MSP?

3. When did the FM find out about the decision to call-in the application?

4. Was there any delay in informing the FM of the decision?

5. What exactly did the FM and Trumps reps speak about in the meeting if it was not the planning application (as we have been told)?

6. When did the FM speak to those who opposed the application and what was the content of that meeting?

7. When were both Aberdeenshire Council and Trump informed about the decision?

8. Did anyone else from the Scottish Government meet either side prior to the meeting with Trumps reps and what was discussed at those meetings?

9. Did Alex Salmond have any prior knowledge that the application may be called in before he met Trumps reps?

10. If Alex Salmond did not know about the decision and it had been made prior to his meeting Trumps reps then why was he not informed?

I do believe we are only getting part of teh picture - it's like a jigsaw and if you only have a few of the pieces then it is very easy to read it all wrong. My own view is that the FM, John Swinney and others should clarify the whole chain of events.

If, as Salmond himself has said, he and others have nothing to fear then I see no problem with prseenting the full facts so that everyone can make a fair judgement. As it stands all we are getting is innuendo on one side and spin and denial on the other.

Most voters could not give a damn who was involved - be it Labour, the Tories, Lib Dem or SNP - what they want is honesty. The SNP were elected on the basis that Labour were not trusted - it would be sad if they too ended up with the same label not through actions but through adopting the same spin as their predecessors.

If I were the FM I w
129

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

19/12/2007 17:55:10
(continued)

If I were the FM I would see this as an opportunity to do the right thing. If there has been anything done wrong I suspect it has been poor management, for example in communicating and organising decision-making - nothing else. If that turns out to be so - then I think most people would accept that as long as there were an acceptance on the aprt of the FM that things could have been handled a bit better.

One last point - the one thing this whole affair has shown is the difficulty of distinguishing when the FM is acting as FM and when he is acting as an MSP. Unlike being Prime Minster, the FM has a lot more direct responsibility for what happens at a local level. It would do no harm to clarify exactly what that demarcation should be.

130

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

19/12/2007 17:58:35
"#163 Methalions,Frigiliana 19/12/2007 17:31:57
Feds.

I think I now agree. Have an investigation. A Salmond will welcome one. What happens when they discover that he did nothing wrong?..."

The one thing it might do is restore confidence in politicians. I see nothing wrong with investigating and proving someone is innocent of any wrongdoing. It is part of holding governemnt accountable - the Americans have done it for years with their Senate committees - I don't believe it would do us any harm either.
131

BMeister,

19/12/2007 18:01:58
#161 The Fed
I agree with you that there is nothing wrong with this issue being looked at for clash of ineterests etc.

'What I don't want is Labour's antics used as an excuse (and you are a prime culprit by the way) not to do anything about this particular issue.
'

Fair enough, however what appears to be happening here is the other parties doing exactly the same thing i.e. using this issue as an excuse and a smokescreen for any scrutiny of their own 'issues'.

Nicol Stephen could have reflected te wishes of his own constituents and those of neighbouring constituencies by working with the government to encourage investment in the area nand elsewhere. This would have reflected positively on him and his party. He (and the others) have obviously not learnt the lessons of the negative effects of negative politics from May and instead is using the allegations to try and score cheap political points rather than try and work for the people he is supposed to represent.

132

BMeister,

19/12/2007 18:03:45
183 cont/..
the man is a self-seeking idiot and the sooner he is voted out by the people he has misrepresented the better.

OK, back to chat.
133

 Ayrshire Scot™,

19/12/2007 18:06:48
177
1. Who accompanied the FM to the meetings?
Asked and answered already. A constituency secretary.
2. Were there any civil servants accompanying him - Asked and answered
See 1. He is allowed as FM to meet Trump ANYWAY. As long as he meets all sides.
3. When did the FM find out about the decision to call-in the application?Asked and answered already.
The next day.
4. Was there any delay in informing the FM of the decision?Asked and answered already.
He found out when it was decided.
5. What exactly did the FM and Trumps reps speak about in the meeting if it was not the planning application (as we have been told)?Asked and answered already.
The planning application, role of council nd minsters. THIS IS ALLOWED as long as he does not publicly back or oppose it.
6. When did the FM speak to those who opposed the application and what was the content of that meeting?Asked and answered already.
Has been reported, meetings with sustainable Aberdeenshire, Forbes et al
7. When were both Aberdeenshire Council and Trump informed about the decision?Asked and answered already.
Same day.
8. Did anyone else from the Scottish Government meet either side prior to the meeting with Trumps reps and what was discussed at those meetings?Yes - Nicol Stephen and Jack McConnell. McConnell put Government staff at Trumps disposal. Others can be answered by Swinney in parliament. Why a public enquiry? It is not unusual for gov officials to meet investors.
9. Did Alex Salmond have any prior knowledge that the application may be called in before he met Trumps reps?Asked and answered already.
He has said not.

Honestly, this is pathetic. It is normal for government officials to meet with those who plan inward investment. Salmond or the SNP have nothing to gain from Trump, other than the gain of the investment for Scotland.

this is utterly pathetic,, partisan invention of wrong doing (you still have not said what part of code or what law you allege has been breached) and
134

 Ayrshire Scot™,

19/12/2007 18:09:24
...and will only damage Scotland's reputation with other potential investors.

No one is using Labour's ADMITTED ILLEGLITY as an excuse here. There is nothing to excuse (unless you can point out a potential breach of the code or law?).

Labour is a separate issue ivolving criminality.
135

 Ayrshire Scot™,

19/12/2007 18:12:15
WWendy - bile green sleazy lip kid
136

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

19/12/2007 19:04:03
#187 You didn't answer Question 10.

As to your answers - we are only going by what SNP spokepeople have told us - not what Salmond, Swinney and others have said.

If I want answers I speak to the organ-grinder not the bullshitting monkey.
137

,

19/12/2007 19:06:22
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
138

 Ayrshire Scot™,

19/12/2007 19:10:10
192 How rude. if you don't want questions on here, why post them? I suggest you take your questions and put them in writing to the office of the first minister and bore us no more with them then. cheers
139

 Ayrshire Scot™,

19/12/2007 19:12:37
193 They were not meant to tell Salmond. he is disbarred from involvement. It is quite correct the decision was taken without consulting him. Although I supsect eejits like you would then complain he was consulted.

Still not going to tell us what part of the code, that allows Salmond to meet with developers, or what law, has been broken? Guess not.

go and grind your particular noxious organ elsewhere you boorish pillock.
140

 Ayrshire Scot™,

19/12/2007 19:14:06
192 Just for you. 10. If Alex Salmond did not know about the decision and it had been made prior to his meeting Trumps reps then why was he not informed?

Because he is disbarred from involement in the decision making.

141

HEN BROON 5,

ALBA GU BRATH 19/12/2007 19:48:56
Express to back Scottish independence
Severin Carrell, Scotland correspondent Guardian Unlimited, Wednesday December 19 2007
Scottish Daily Express: its front-page lead yesterday was a poll in which readers backed independence

The Daily Express, once a bastion of unionist politics, is about to declare itself a supporter of independence for Scotland in a Richard Desmond-inspired marketing push.

Desmond, the Express Newspapers owner, and his senior editors are understood to have held a private meeting at his Scottish headquarters in Glasgow yesterday with the Scottish National party leader and first minister, Alex Salmond, to discuss launching its pro-independence campaign in the new year.

The Scottish edition of the daily paper signalled its change of tack yesterday morning, splashing on a telephone poll of its readers which showed 59% "favoured independence". The headline read: "Now you say it: Scotland must break free."




THE UNIONIST CON TROLL IS SO OUT OF TOUCH WITH MAINSTREAM SCOTTISH POLITICS NOW EVEN THIS NEWS PAPER WHO I REALLY THOUGHT WOULD SEE THE LIGHT HAS BLOWN THEIR CHANCE. JUST WATCH THE CIRCULATION OF THE EXPRESS TAKE OF NOW, I FOR ONE WILL PAY FOR IT, JUST FOR THE SAKE OF DIVERSIFICATION ALONE IT WILL BE WORTH IT.


http://www.publicpolitics.net/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=89965


ALBA GU BRATH.
142

HEN BROON 5,

ALBA GU BRATH 19/12/2007 19:49:54
KNOCK KNOCK
143

 Ayrshire Scot™,

19/12/2007 19:58:46
198 Who's there?
144

HEN BROON 5,

19/12/2007 20:17:33
WENDY
145

 Ayrshire Scot™,

19/12/2007 20:28:20
200 Wendy Who?
146

HEN BROON 5,

19/12/2007 20:36:22
When de Strathclyde Bobbies come Bob Bob Bobbing along :o)
147

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

19/12/2007 20:38:41
The only boor is you Ayrshire who can't seem to see through his thick skull that there is a POSSIBLE conflict of interset not over the fact there was a meeting but the whole timing of the meeting.

You are also a liar whn you say that the Nats would not get worked up if this was Jack McConnell. And I don't just mean the Trump case but in general.

Imagine it was McConnell who had met a mega-rich businessman about a development in Wishaw.

Imagine that said development in Wishaw had been rejected.

Imagine that said development was then suddenly called in by the Scottish Executive.

And you still think the SNP would not raise the roof - of course they would - and they would be right to do so.

Even Meths has admitted that they would - you know it in your heart too - so less of the sanctimonious crap.
148

 Ayrshire Scot™,

19/12/2007 20:46:03
203 The full Aberdeenshire council voted overwhelmingly in FAVOUR. The local area committed voted for it. 80% of locals back it. So the Government is not over ruling local opinion unless it blocks the plan.

McConnell, and Nicol Stephen, net Trump.

The timing of the meeting was driven by the way the council handed this. Of course the Trump Org wanted meetings after the infrastructure committee debacle.

The Ministerial Code allows Salmond, or indeed McConnell, to meet Trump, as long as the FM meets other sides and does not back it publicly - McConnell did not follow the latter points.

So, there is absolutely no breach of code or law. Salmond would be remiss if he was not trying to encourage inward investment.

One could bleat on there is POTENTIALLY a breach of anything without evidence. Nicol Stephen was found guilty of breaking expenses codes. Alexander has admitted the law has been broken.. All you can do is through POTENTIAL and not even say what code or law has been POTENTIALLY broken. Pathetic. Tell us what part of the code or law, might, in your imagination, potentially have been broken and how?
149

Montague Q X Burton,

19/12/2007 20:48:51
Discord amongst Unionists shocker!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7152657.stm
150

 Ayrshire Scot™,

19/12/2007 20:51:44
203 Fed

do tell why the unionist parties voted against an independent enquiry then?
151

Nikostratos,

19/12/2007 20:54:56
#197 knob

might as well show some of the relevant part of the story
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2007/dec/19/dailyexpress.pressandpublishing


Desmond's repositioning of the paper in Scotland will be seen widely as a marketing gambit - albeit a risky one.

Once one of the most widely-read papers in Scotland, the paper's sales have been suffering

However, although the SNP is riding high in opinion polls because of its handling of the devolved executive in Edinburgh, most polls show less than a quarter of voters support independence. It remains unclear whether Desmond's core Express Newspapers readers would support separatism.

The Express did ensure, however, that it retained one link to its pro-unionist past in yesterday's story on its poll. Gill wrote: "Equally significantly, they want to retain the Queen as head of state and for her to become Elizabeth, Queen of Scots."
152

 Ayrshire Scot™,

19/12/2007 20:58:01
207 strange. the two latest polls put support for independence at 40% and 59% (Herald/ Express) - both in past week. You not keeping up?
153

 Ayrshire Scot™,

19/12/2007 20:58:44
207 "Equally significantly, they want to retain the Queen as head of state and for her to become Elizabeth, Queen of Scots."

That is also the policy of the SNP. Not one I endorse however
154

Nikostratos,

19/12/2007 21:15:27
what a snp supporter he is going to be well done Alex


Express owner Richard Desmond today launched an extraordinary tirade against Telegraph bosses at a meeting of their joint venture print works, hurling a string of abuse and goosestepping around a boardroom in mockery of a German newspaper group's bid for the paper.

In scenes that will shock the Conservative party he has just pledged to support, Mr Desmond branded the Telegraph chief executive, Jeremy Deedes, a "miserable little piece of sh't" and said Germans were "all Nazis".

Mr Deedes said: "It was the most grotesque outburst of a mix of slander and racism that I have ever been subjected to. If it had been in a public place he would have been arrested."

According to witnesses the outburst went on for three or four minutes.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2004/apr/22/dailyexpress.politicsandthemedia1


When Mr Desmond said: "They're all Nazis", Mr Deedes replied: "That is thoroughly offensive. Could you please sit down so we can start the meeting?"

"Don't you tell me to sit down, you miserable little piece of sh't," Mr Desmond said, before he launched what witnesses described as "a stream of foul-mouthed abuse, both personal and general"
155

 Ayrshire Scot™,

19/12/2007 21:16:40
213 it was you being rude just there. you can be very rude. and after I said I was not being rude to you anymore.

Spook, by pasta strips do you mean tagliatelle?
156

 Ayrshire Scot™,

19/12/2007 21:17:29
213 Whereas those Labour supporting Mssrs Maxwell and Murdoch are lovely people. Who ate all the pension funds?
157

Nikostratos,

19/12/2007 21:22:01
What a nice man a very nice man..What the f'eck do you nats think you are getting into bed with.



Richard Desmond has reassured new Conservative leader Michael Howard the Telegraph would continue to support the party if he bought the paper,





The Daily Express has switched its allegiance to the Tories after seven years supporting Labour. Richard Desmond's paper says the sooner Britain is rid of the party the better. It attacks its policies on crime, health, education and Europe - saying only Hitler could have dreamed of the monster Europe has become.
158

 Ayrshire Scot™,

19/12/2007 21:24:02
216 Yes, the Sun wasn't a rabid right wing piece of filth before it supported Labour, at all. In the least.

I think its up to the paper who they support. Not up to the SNP?
159

Nikostratos,

19/12/2007 21:27:21
16 January. be there
160

Eve,

Scotland 19/12/2007 21:30:21
#197 HEN BROON 5: What really!!!!

I'll belive it when I see it!!!!
161

Nikostratos,

19/12/2007 21:32:14
for you Ayrshire



http://img.123greetings.com/thumbs/edec_c_newjingle/8540-002-77-1062.gif
162

 Ayrshire Scot™,

19/12/2007 21:36:16
221 Niko, thanks, have a verry merry...

http://www.acousticmusic.com/fame/g02078.jpg

This is pooh that the links don't work

What is happening on 16 January?
163

Nikostratos,

19/12/2007 21:37:50
.......////.
164

 Ayrshire Scot™,

19/12/2007 21:38:15
221 He might bring you a gift too. He has already brought me Wendy gate, Wendy computer gate, Abrahams gate, more agtes than I need really

http://www.abitofhome.ca/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/20406-05.jpg
165

 Ayrshire Scot™,

19/12/2007 21:40:38
224 is that a pic or your tool? is a bit thin looking. the name that is hort for william is banned i see
166

Nikostratos,

19/12/2007 21:40:38
Salmond to appear at Trump probe



The committee is to take legal advice and wait for the answers to a series of parliamentary questions before calling the witnesses at its meeting on 16 January

night night
167

Nikostratos,

19/12/2007 21:41:27
223 good pic bye bye
168

 Ayrshire Scot™,

19/12/2007 21:41:55
227 That sounds a bit rude.
169

Karin M,

19/12/2007 21:42:04
197 guess i have to buy the express as well as the herald now then
170

 Ayrshire Scot™,

19/12/2007 21:42:33
227 A trump probe? Sounds very rude
171

Montague Q X Burton,

19/12/2007 21:52:22
I'd rather have Cilla Black suck my eyeballs out through her gnarled teeth than read the Express. Their support for Independence, much like Vienna, means nothing to me.
172

 Ayrshire Scot™,

19/12/2007 21:53:01
232 The Ayshire Post (incorporating the Troon & Prestwick Times) is getting quite SNP friendly. The revolution is near.
173

 Ayrshire Scot™,

19/12/2007 21:53:54
234 Indeed. I felt the same about the SUN when they had a wee flirtation. They can stick it up their trumps.
174

Karin M,

downing the devolution pint and sipping at the wee 19/12/2007 22:00:17
glug glug glug.
175

Karin M,

19/12/2007 22:01:54
damn location was too long

the whole location was

downing the devolution pint and sipping at the wee half of independence until im drunk with the euphoria of a free scotland.
176

Karin M,

19/12/2007 22:04:04
spook ayrshire montague hello.


the glug glug glug was britannia sinking no me drinking. me drinking in the coming independence is more of an ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.
177

Eve,

Scotland 19/12/2007 22:04:33
Well they don't appear to put the purely Scottish stuff on there web site.

http://www.express.co.uk/home

May be the Scottish editor is tierd of be under shadowed by the English part of the paper!!
178

Karin M,

19/12/2007 22:04:38
its so close now i can taste it.
179

Montague Q X Burton,

19/12/2007 22:05:48
Ahem, don't say I'm not good to you. Anyone interested in reporting or complaining about the WENDY and her lack of probity please forwards complaints via e-soteric mail to the following chappy.

standards.commissioner@scottish.parliament.uk

Might I also suggest hours of spiteful fun can be had here.

http://mspallowances.scottish.parliament.uk/MSPAllowances/Default.aspx

No sign of Jackie the Hutts' pie and cakes chitty...yet.
180

Montague Q X Burton,

19/12/2007 22:07:05
Karin, good evening m'dear and how are you this frost bitten evening?
181

 Ayrshire Scot™,

19/12/2007 22:11:25
242 Nay, Monatgue

I must clarify. Complaints must be signed, in writing (hard copy letter, how old fashioned) with the complainers name and address, and must also indicate what part of teh MSP code you think has been breached (why have a commissioner if we have to figure out whatthe breach is)

Strange that I know that. You might think I had complained about Wendy breaching the general code of conduct (illegal acts, law breaking etc) , section on acceptance of gifts, and just recently, abused the parliamentary offices and allowances (using her office to conduct leadership fund raising, and now this 40k for computers for Labour).
182

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

19/12/2007 22:13:13
"#209 Ayrshire Scot™,19/12/2007 20:58:44
207 "Equally significantly, they want to retain the Queen as head of state and for her to become Elizabeth, Queen of Scots."

That is also the policy of the SNP. Not one I endorse however"

Something I do agree with you on!!

PS Apologies to you if I was a bit OTT earlier - I can be like a dog with a rag sometimes and get worked up.
183

 Ayrshire Scot™,

19/12/2007 22:16:24
246 Yes, what was all that about, swearing and all? If I was Wini I would have reported you. But I am not. Yes, the baked bean in the bin. Mr bean, in the bin. A written constitution, charter 88 style too I say!
184

 Ayrshire Scot™,

19/12/2007 22:17:20
246 What type of dog? I quite like Irish Setters, German Pointers and Dalmatians. Don't like small yappy type dogs.
185

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

19/12/2007 22:18:14
#248 No I'm a more like a rottweiller.
186

Karin M,

19/12/2007 22:18:57
244 Tha gle mhath montague
187

Karin M,

19/12/2007 22:20:49
have you been a naughty boy fed. Tsk come here till i sp ank you...................
188

Karin M,

19/12/2007 22:21:14
i cant beleive it wont let you say sp ank together.
189

Karin M,

19/12/2007 22:21:53
montague most interesting little thing you discovered earlier.
190

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

19/12/2007 22:26:27
"#206 Ayrshire Scot™,19/12/2007 20:51:44
203 Fed

do tell why the unionist parties voted against an independent enquiry then?"

Missed this question earlier. Pretty obvious isn't it?

Labour could not back it seeing how hamstrung their leadership is. The Tories would not back it because they are not stupid - an independent public enquiry would require at least some hard evidence - and even I'm not claiming that (though I don't know about Nicol Stephen).

Getting the Scottish Parliament Local Government Committe to investigate the issue is probably the most sensible thing to do - there are legitimate questions that need asked.

The one person I want to here from is not Salmond but Swinney - his role in all of this is still not clear.

I know you had a go at me for raising the issue of POSSIBLE conflict - I still stand by that. It is only right that the process is not only fair but seen to be fair. This investigation would go some way to ensuring that.
191

Montague Q X Burton,

19/12/2007 22:26:44
Why thank you Karin, I'm a fount of interesting little things.

Currently chuckling like an apoplectic loon at the Allan B'Stard style posturing in poor wee Allan Wilson's website.

http://www.allanwilsonmsp.com/
192

 Ayrshire Scot™,

19/12/2007 22:27:22
249 Well, if it occupies your time and keeps you off the streets, I am happy for you. Run along now, I am sure your masterful, insightful posts do not compose themselves and are no doubt the results of hours of painstaking research of the subject involved. Or you just type the first load of nonsense that passes through your head. Either way, cheers
193

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

19/12/2007 22:28:49
PS The ironic thing is that I support the development in principle. I also supported the calling-in of the application.

I suppose I am an old-fashioned stickler for playing by the rules - even if I disagreed with them. It must be all those years serving on different standing orders committees and steering committees.
194

 Ayrshire Scot™,

19/12/2007 22:30:11
256 There we have it:

"an independent public enquiry would require at least some hard evidence - and even I'm not claiming that"

Indeed, Doesn't stop the mud slinging, which may cost jobs and investment in the NE and has not a shred of basis in fact.
195

 Ayrshire Scot™,

19/12/2007 22:32:28
260 Stop the bus I need a wee wee....

I think the conflation calling itself Wini may be refering to some inner voice, thus giving rise to the plural. Or is just a pompous old truffle hound snuffling pointlessly around the thread.

196

 Ayrshire Scot™,

19/12/2007 22:35:09
256 Swinney will report to parliament when he makes a decision, and will be open to question pon why/ how he made it. That is the role of the parliament.

The police meanwhile should be investigating that Wendy blight before she deletes all the spread sheets and emails, not harassing poor Tommy for a bit of jazz powder snorkling and salami hiding in Manchesterford or wherever it was he went. Except for the potential perjury. He may need harassed for that.
197

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

19/12/2007 22:36:03
#261 Actually I think the jobs were long gone before Salmond met Trump's people.

They were gone when the Aberdeenshire infrastructure services committee voted to reject his plans.

Not the tied vote.

The 11-4 vote to reject them and ask Trump to amend them.

Trump had no intention of ever compromising in my opinion - his statements show no mellowing in his attitude.
198

 Ayrshire Scot™,

19/12/2007 22:36:11
263 Yes. I notice how you do not return Spook's post, in the form and manner of a post to him. Bet it smarts being ignored by you.

Begone, truffle hound, begone
199

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

19/12/2007 22:37:42
#264 Her days are numbered and the plotters are sharpening their knives.

Watch this space is all I will say.
200

 Ayrshire Scot™,

19/12/2007 22:40:08
267 Those "computers for Labour" were not cheap. Must be special computers.
201

 Ayrshire Scot™,

19/12/2007 22:42:50
268 Col B. Indeed, ages ago, Salmond used to talk about real progress would be when there was no talk about Tories, Labour, Libs but just Unionists collectively. Has already happened. As Labour morphed politically into a Thatcherite right wing party and can't be distinguished from the Tories, politics is now between the SNP and the Unionists, who are all pretty much of a muchness.
202

 Ayrshire Scot™,

19/12/2007 22:50:08
272 LOL. reported for being a female impersonator, heheheh classic.

Yeah, saw that post. Was very funny when Wini got busted trolling herself. That was a classic melt down.

Poor dear Wini. Own website? ROTFL. WHats that going to about?
203

,

19/12/2007 22:53:17
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
204

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 19/12/2007 22:54:00
Breaking news,

Johnston Press and the Goldies of Camelon, Falkirk.

The Farkirk Herald. Ask the people there about Labour bias. Enquiry here, I think.

Yer 6 times logged in Jock.
205

,

19/12/2007 22:54:00
Comment Removed By Administrator
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206

,

19/12/2007 22:54:37
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
207

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

19/12/2007 22:55:24
The fakie's back.
208

,

19/12/2007 22:56:58
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
209

Eve,

Scotland 19/12/2007 22:58:03
I do like this carrtoon though!!!

http://www.express.co.uk/cartoon/view/2007-12-19
210

 Ayrshire Scot™,

19/12/2007 22:58:19
278 Yes. Strange that Wini come along, complains, and then my fakie re-appears....mmm mysterious. I find it quite funny

Jock, do you remember Wini trolling herself a couple of weeks ago? How i laughed. I feel a bit sorry for the old dear in truth, it must be terribly angry and bitter to go to such lengths, especially after her bedtime and all. Ho hum
211

,

19/12/2007 22:58:58
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
212

 Ayrshire Scot™,

19/12/2007 22:59:24
276,277, 279 - please report, and ask the moderator, in the "reason for removal" part to inlcude the oether monikers of the poster?
213

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 19/12/2007 22:59:42
New word for PR Crap? Prap.
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19/12/2007 23:00:02
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19/12/2007 23:00:54
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Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 19/12/2007 23:02:14
285, Spook. Ever been on a tube ride in London by Bank station? The words are "mind the gap, mind the gap".
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19/12/2007 23:02:23
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 Ayrshire Scot™,

19/12/2007 23:02:49
283 Winni old sausage. I take it, from your arther sad and no doubt furious (I imagine you spit a bit when you are worke up, like now?) but somewhat underwhelming trolling of me (how do you think this bothers me,?) that your legal actions against me (that did cause a laugh as well) has perhaps stalled? Have you thought about trying Amer Anwar - he is high profile, and specialises in human rights. He will no doubt be able to protect your right to come on here and make a right old foolish parsnip of yourself. Cheers, hugs and a wee kiss, AS x x x
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19/12/2007 23:03:30
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 Ayrshire Scot™,

19/12/2007 23:04:09
283 Wini, they have not removed the post at 134. Have you tried phoning them?
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19/12/2007 23:06:19
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Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 19/12/2007 23:08:34
282, Ayrshire. No I can't remember Wini cloning herself but if you want a laugh check your e-mail box in a few minutes - and feel free.
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19/12/2007 23:09:02
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19/12/2007 23:09:12
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19/12/2007 23:11:55
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 Ayrshire Scot™,

19/12/2007 23:14:47
301 Good point re whales and connection to TV stations old parsnip. Perhaps the whales don't watch much telly. Remember and put that one in tomorrows dissertation. (today's didn't get much reaction either)

PS - 134 is still there. Its mocking you. Try reporting it again. Or get your lawyers on it, again hehehe

x x x
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Eve,

Scotland 19/12/2007 23:14:59
#301 Ayrshire Scot™: Thats what Alex Samlond has just said on news night!!!

Are you aduio typeing for thous way no telly!!!!


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Why am I so boreid with this story!!!!!!!!!!
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Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 19/12/2007 23:15:41
301 , We slaughter cod and eat haddock - what's your point?
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 Ayrshire Scot™,

19/12/2007 23:15:49
302 I am having a wee laugh.

AS well as "mind the gap" perhaps they should install a wee "mind Wini's lawyers" warningon here. hehehe
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Montague Q X Burton,

19/12/2007 23:16:38
I do wish the fakie would phuqe right off.

It may be that cyber stalking Ayshire Scot gets you a wee bit tumescent in the transgender micro-cockery department, but for the rest of us it's a right pain in the hole. So does all a favour and try less jizz gargling and go and abuse a rabbit in a darkened video cabinet...
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19/12/2007 23:17:24
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Eve,

Scotland 19/12/2007 23:18:06
#301: NOT the whalse thing ovbusely!!!!

dam it my reading is bad the night!!!!!!!

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 Ayrshire Scot™,

19/12/2007 23:18:18
305 I think Wini was trying to say that Haddock do watch TV, therefor contributing more support to commercial TV stations than whales, which tend to listen more to the radio and read? I think.
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 Ayrshire Scot™,

19/12/2007 23:20:28
305 Jock

lol. hehehe I thought he was doing it as well. I think that is also the maltese creature (the original one). I have passed it along, won't use myself but I know someone who might....
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19/12/2007 23:22:33
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Montague Q X Burton,

19/12/2007 23:22:58
Sorry for the deviation, but I still find this slightly sinister. No doubt Curly Bob wants to chain the poor golfer to a radiator in his basement and micturate on him at his leisure.

http://allanwilsonmsp.com/new-gallery/gallery/allan-album-01/lochlomond
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Eve,

Scotland 19/12/2007 23:25:16
#305 Jock Tamson: Thouse Cod deserve it!!!
They swim in to the nets where there not wanted!!! Aye, Right, like they have a choice.

But in all serouseness, I wached the BBC lunch time new the day and I saw the tuna piese aparently there being over fished (& NOT just nutriously rich with added Mercury pollotion). Oh you should have seen the wee darlings their was wan on the telly that was trying to bite through the net it was caught in.

Can you belive it can tuna is baby tuna, thats another reaon to stop eating the canned stuff and only eat the fresh steaks occasionaly (form the bigger fish). All the omga-3 is cooked out in the canning prosses. Sue John West and co. May be!!!! Then again......

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19/12/2007 23:26:34
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NovaScotia™,

19/12/2007 23:26:56
315 Wes Q Doonrapub

Just to make it easier to differentiate....

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Andy Dufresne,

19/12/2007 23:27:46
#314 Ayrshire Scot.

OH hell yeh, thats the way to go.
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NovaScotia™,

19/12/2007 23:28:34
317 All - please report this post at 317. I feel the moderator will not like being mocked in this way by the aged truffle hound.

PS, Wini - 134 is still there. It laughs at you. It slings a deaf ear to your threats of legal action. It guffaws at your phone calls of complaint. hehehe
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Andy Dufresne,

19/12/2007 23:28:48
#317 You tell him .

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NovaScotia™,

19/12/2007 23:29:54
317 Wini

when did you report 134? They have not leapt to delete it? Did you mention legal action, or do you keep that for special posting melt-downs. Chuckle.
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Jock Tamson,

Tardis 19/12/2007 23:30:25
Whoosh
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Andy Dufresne,

19/12/2007 23:30:36
#317 OH lord, is that a real life tranny, oh yeh lets have some fun.

What size is your bust, bra and things tranny
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Andy Dufresne,

19/12/2007 23:31:54
IM a tranny
Im a tranny
Im a tranny
Im a tranny

wini is a tranny
wini is a tranny
wini is a tranny
wini is a tranny

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NovaScotia™,

19/12/2007 23:33:09
324 Andy, you used to like female impersonators? But right enough, that cheeky Mr Gravity has over-stayed his welcome chez Wini. Sagging. Thats all I am saying.
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Eve,

Scotland 19/12/2007 23:34:35
#314 Ayrshire Scot™: I quite like some of the Gaelic programmes. (do understand much what goes on in them cause the subtitles go to fast)

BUT I wance watched a history documentary from start to finish in Gaelic it's the only time that I've ever managed to sit through a history documentary in my life and remains the only time. I normally get borred within 5mins of these kind of programmes.

I was misstafied by the beauty of the Isle of Mull and the Celtic stone things. And amazingly lost my place very few times cause I quickly understood that they were saying Scotland and how a lot so that made my reading quicker cause I missed those words out.

I also find the music in Gaelic very relaxing, even though I don;'t really have a clue what they are saying.
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NovaScotia™,

19/12/2007 23:36:29
327 Eve

314 is a fake (extra space after name). We have reason to belief, using advanced electronic adam's apple and hairy hand detectors, that it may be the female impersonator, known also as ....the pooh.
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Montague Q X Burton,

19/12/2007 23:36:56
318 Norbert Tittts Doughnut is another preferred appellation, NovaScotia!

Arf one of my previous user names wouldn't be allowed in this age of the new puritan Scotsman I wonder how Doughnuts like Fan-ny#s would have got on.
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NovaScotia™,

19/12/2007 23:39:51
330 Norbert

the shortened appellation of William is pre-banned. Ayrshire's own Mr McIllvaney would not be amused.
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Montague Q X Burton,

19/12/2007 23:40:33
"Wid yis be wanting tae see a puppy." Sinister muppet.

http://mspallowances.scottish.parliament.uk/MSPAllowances/TransactionDetails.aspx
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Ayrshire Scot™ ,

19/12/2007 23:42:45
wow, what a trip
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NovaScotia™,

19/12/2007 23:43:05
I wonder why Wini reported post 134. Perhaps she misunderstood "seminal" and got over excited. Lets face it, although she has literary pretensions, the only Balzac that old girl has had in her hand was her own.

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Ayrshire Scot™ ,

19/12/2007 23:43:59
hello?
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Andy Dufresne,

19/12/2007 23:55:54
Oh dear i can not help my self

EVERYONE I AM WINI AND THE FAKE AYRSHIRE SCOT.

I only have this weird fascination of faking other people because no one listens to me as Wini.
Wini was named after my great uncle tranny from West Lothian and is having an affair with Watcher 4..

My my my i am a sad degenerate but call me wini.

i will go around all the posts and anytime Wini posts i will hound him because he is me and i can do that.

400 am i to early? go grt the 400 boosh doosh poosh
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Andy Dufresne,

19/12/2007 23:56:08
hoos poos
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NovaScotia™,

19/12/2007 23:56:09
335 Poor Wini with the Mini

Chuckle
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Eve,

19/12/2007 23:57:59
#329 NovaScotia™,: It's very difficult too see

Me sleepy think I'll be heading to bed in about 5mins time unless somthing really intersting happens may be the new storys will ingross, me BUT NOT if it's more of this.


I'm so borried of this story of wanting to hold Alex Samlon to account when they don't even know what the dession is yet.
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NovaScotia™,

19/12/2007 23:58:06
338 Andy

despite Wini's crack team of lawyers (class A) my post at 134 has not been removed. Do you think she forget to put her false teeth in again when she called up to complain about it? She is prone to that sort of muddle.
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Andy Dufresne,

19/12/2007 23:59:00
HI ITS WINI AGAIN..I ONLY POST AS WINI WHEN I AM WARING MY MOTHERS FROCK AND IT SMELLS OF MY AFTER BIRTH

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BMeister,

20/12/2007 00:00:43
138 gus1940
'Wot no AM2'

Not much at all since the new format for this came out and especially today and I think the last couple of days.

If anyone is passing the Scotsman offices keep an eye out for a lonely figure huddled by the front door, holding a frostbitten placard bearing the words:

'Free The Chatroom Links'

and in smaller writing underneath:

'26% of users in a YouGov poll said they would completely prefer them and 36% siad they would more like them back than not.'

If you see this sad figure, spare him 20p towards a can of Union Jack Ale to keep out the cold.
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Andy Dufresne,

20/12/2007 00:07:05
#341 Nov

Wini has falls teeth and they are all yellow.

I AM WINI
I AM WINI
I AM WINI
I AM WINI
I AM WINI
I AM WINI
I AM WINI

I AM A TRANNY
I AM A TRANNY
I AM A TRANNY
I AM A TRANNY
I AM A TRANNY

I AM NOW RAGING AND PHONING THE SCOTSMAN AND MY LAWYERS
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Andy Dufresne,

20/12/2007 00:07:57
WINI IS A CUN#
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Eve,

Scotland 20/12/2007 00:09:48
Night, night, I'm well and truely borried with this topic.

Sweet dreams everyone!!!!!
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20/12/2007 00:10:01
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Andy Dufresne,

20/12/2007 00:15:39
#347 is me and i am wini
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Andy Dufresne,

20/12/2007 00:16:48
400 yeh
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20/12/2007 00:20:39
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Andy Dufresne,

20/12/2007 00:29:21
#350 IS ME , AND YES WE ARE BOTH WINI AND THE TRANNY AND AS I SAID IM OF TO BED NOW.

THAT #350 POST IS ME FAKING AYRSHIRE SCOT AND I AM WINI
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20/12/2007 00:32:59
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Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 20/12/2007 00:34:12
311,Spook

"Okay, hear goes...I had sent an email to the Scotsman yesterday around the inept security on this site around user names and stated that the Fake Ayrshire Scot was the same person as Wini. Now what they said was that in this new system they can now detect users ip addresses and therefore it will be easier to ban people from the site. Now lets see if this will ban wini and the fake."

Nice of the Scotsman to give out information like that to you. In what capacity were you mailing them? And what right did the Scotsman have to give you that information?

Hey, do I need a seperate computer for all my family and friends? If this is true then keep going, Scotsman, keep right on to the end of the road to oblivion.

And may you RIP
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Katty,

Bannockburn 20/12/2007 00:42:26
Alex Salmond will go down as the greatest Leader of Scots (next to Bruce and Wallace that is)
Into battle he manuvered the enemy into his committee room.
And that Great White Hope of the Lib Dems no not Santa! Nick Clegg has just declared a week before Xmas
Me Nick great leader I am an Atheist
U could not make it up
Happy Holidays everyone Remember OOr Wendy this Xmas
274

alanh,

ek 20/12/2007 11:20:39
Ta for the reply FED

"#84 Let's put this in terms even you can understand.

Firstly, Alex Salmond was not only a constituency MSP but ALSO the First Minster whose Governemenbt made the decision to call in the application. That is a conflict of interest in anyone's terms.

Or are you trying to argue that the First Minster should not be responsible for any decision taken by his Government?


Some of you on this forum take us for fools."

No you asked why peeps objected to Jack getting so involved in the process and giving him the helicoper tour and offerred use of his team etc but were now being so hypocritical about eck.
The difference is that altho both were/are first minister eck is also the msp for the region and as such it is his job to go and see both sides of the argument in his constituency but you already knew that;-)
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Jings Crivens,

Paisley 20/12/2007 13:12:05
judging from the posts made by the SNP supporters they have the mental age of a 2 year old
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Douglas Eckhart,

Edinburgh 20/12/2007 14:35:30
www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk

Everyone should get over to the Daily Express and show support!

I don't actually care who the editor is and the antics of the owner in the past, or whatever personal reasons they have for supporting the SNP (Anti-Gordon Brown most likely), who cares, the point is, its a major tabloid newspaper in Scotland supporting independence....

This will only continue if they see results, ie an increase in sales.. Everyone who supports independence should start buying the Daily Express: if their sales in Scotland jump by far enough (which i think they will) then the rest of the Unionist press in Scotland will be forced to sit up and take notice.
It may even force a change in the Herald's position.

Whatever you may have thought about the Express up until now, you have to think about the bigger picture here folks! This is a tabloid wedge that will be used to prize open the closed book of the unionist press in Scotland and let in some welcome fresh air... dare I say it - an alternative point of view: shock horror!
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Jings Crivens,

20/12/2007 16:06:59
362 Douglas Eckhart,

Well toddle off there with the rest of the SNP bunch and leave these pages free for intelligent debate

 

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