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Wendy: 'Bring it on'



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Published Date: 05 May 2008
WENDY Alexander yesterday announced the biggest U-turn by Scottish Labour for generations by backing a referendum on independence.
In the clearest sign yet that the Scottish public will be given a vote on separation, Ms Alexander moved to "call Alex Salmond's bluff" and support his referendum demand. She believes calls for independence would be defeated in a vote, removing it from the political agenda for a generation.

"I don't fear the verdict of the Scottish people – bring it on," Ms Alexander said yesterday.

Sources close to the Scottish Labour leader revealed she had been considering the major policy reversal for some time but had wanted to discuss it with colleagues at Holyrood and Westminster – including Gordon Brown, the Prime Minister – before reaching a final decision.

Ms Alexander has now made that decision and given her support to a referendum as early as next year, although she believes it is wrong to wait until 2010, as the SNP wants.

Mr Brown is cautious about backing a referendum. However, The Scotsman understands the Prime Minister has not made a decision on the issue yet.

Others in the Labour Party have been more forthright and have urged Ms Alexander to "call the SNP's bluff" by demanding a referendum as soon as possible.

Andy Kerr, the former health minister and one of Ms Alexander's closest front-bench colleagues, has backed a referendum for some time.

It is understood the move also has the support of several Scottish Labour MPs and a growing number of MSPs at Holyrood.

Ms Alexander wants to use the findings of the Scottish Constitutional Commission as a springboard for a referendum.

Sir Kenneth Calman's commission is due to produce its first report in the autumn. Ms Alexander believes its findings could then be put to the Scottish people, as part of a three-question referendum, organised by the Westminster government.

Scots voters would be asked whether they supported the status quo, the Calman recommendations – which are likely to suggest more powers for the Scottish Parliament – or outright independence.

The referendum could take place as early as next spring but is likely to be at least 18 months away, if organised by the Westminster government.

Ms Alexander is confident the Scottish people would back the Calman recommendations, not full independence.

The First Minister has already conceded that a referendum on independence would be a "once in a generation" event and, if he lost, he could not hold another one for about 20 years.

But Ms Alexander's move is a considerable gamble and a high-risk strategy for Labour.

Yesterday, the Scottish Labour leader said her message to Mr Salmond was: "This is your policy – have the courage of your convictions to bring it forward and let the parliament make up its mind."

Ms Alexander said "tactical discussions" had taken place with UK government ministers on the subject.

And she went on: "It is worrying that the SNP appears to be toying with the electorate by saying, 'We want this, it's the reason we came into politics, but we are frightened to bring the matter forward'.

"I don't fear the verdict of the Scottish people – bring it on."

Her decision to back a referendum on independence leaves the Calman commission in a difficult position, as this is the one constitutional option that Sir Kenneth has not been asked to examine.

It also leaves her Conservative and Liberal Democrat allies, who came together to create the commission, as the last two parties resisting calls for a referendum on independence.

Last night, Robert Brown, a Lib Dem MSP, said: "Wendy Alexander's suggestion is manifestly based on tactics, not principle, and is a panic response from a Labour Party in free-fall after last week's English and Welsh elections.

"Politicians should not support referendums on policies which they do not back. That is why the Liberal Democrats could not form an administration last year with the SNP."

He went on: "It is bad enough we have to put up with Alex Salmond's constant humbug about a referendum on independence without the Labour Party thinking they can use one to call the SNP's bluff. The political point-scoring from both parties is unacceptable."

Nicola Sturgeon, the deputy First Minister, said that, while she was encouraged by the Scottish Labour leader's move towards a referendum on independence, the SNP was committed to holding the plebiscite in 2010, not sooner, as demanded by Ms Alexander.

She said: "The Labour Party is cracking under pressure on the referendum question, and is being forced to consider supporting the right of the people to choose Scotland's future. Wendy's remarks simply add to Labour's disarray in Scotland."

Ms Sturgeon added: "The policy the SNP put forward is that the right to choose Scotland's future belongs to the people – which is why we published the 'National Conversation' white paper last summer, so people can consider and debate the issues, and then decide in a 2010 referendum."

'Ordinary' Brown reaches out to public in fightback bid

ROSS LYDALL


GORDON Brown, the Prime Minister, yesterday sought to reconnect with the British public by emphasising he came from a "pretty ordinary background" and understood their struggle to cope with soaring household bills.

He insisted he was the "right person" to lead the country, despite a Labour mauling in last week's local elections, and promised new policies on housing, health, education and the constitution. He also kept alive the possibility that a 2p per litre fuel tax rise postponed from last month until October could be scrapped altogether.

Mr Brown gave two television interviews in which he accepted the blame for the government's poor showing and said he felt the "hurt" of families struggling to meet ends meet.

But he admitted he lacked the public persona of Tony Blair, his predecessor, or David Cameron, the Tory leader, as he was "a more private person".

Mr Brown accepted blame for the loss of 311 councillors, the London mayoralty and Labour winning only the third highest share of the vote, behind the Tories and the Lib Dems.

"I feel responsible," he said. "There are no excuses on my part."

He said a Cabinet reshuffle was not his "first priority".

But Alan Duncan, the shadow business secretary, said: "If that was a fightback, Gordon Brown is now in deeper water."

Mr Brown's comments came as Frank Field, the former Labour welfare minister, said he would put down another Commons motion on the 10p tax outcry demanding clarity for the 3.8 million people the Prime Minister admitted yesterday had lost out.

John McDonnell, a Labour back-bencher, ruled out running as a "stalking horse" against Mr Brown but said the party faced a "deep-seated malaise". He added: "We cannot spin and relaunch our way back to popularity."

Winner set to take all in big gamble by Labour

ANALYSIS: HAMISH MACDONELL


WENDY Alexander's decision to back a referendum on independence represents the biggest gamble by a Scottish Labour politician in living memory.

If the SNP gets its referendum and goes on to prove there is a demand for independence, it could finish Labour as a political party in Scotland.

However, if, as Ms Alexander believes, independence is defeated in the plebiscite, it could prove the most masterly of political moves, by robbing the SNP of its raison d'être and its biggest weapon.

The stakes could not be higher, so why has Ms Alexander taken this decision?

Once again, Alex Salmond has goaded Labour on to his territory.

He raised the prospect of the 2011 election campaign being dominated by the issue.

If the First Minister's attempts to hold a referendum on independence were voted down in the Scottish Parliament, as is expected, he promised to go to the country, arguing that the unionist parties had refused to let the Scottish people decide their own future.

Worried about this, Labour has moved, and Ms Alexander has now decided to back a referendum, if only to prevent the Nationalists using the issue in the next election campaign.

However, it is a gamble that, if it fails, will cost the Scottish Labour leader more than merely her job.

The full article contains 1361 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 04 May 2008 11:05 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Scottish Labour Party
 
1

Angus Ogg,

04/05/2008 22:34:13

Wow,

What a week.

Brown given his redundancy notice, and Scotland is to get a vote on Independence. A week certainly is a long time in politics. Who would have thunk it?

Any floating voters out there decided which way to vote yet ?

Interesting times.
2

Vivas,

Edinburgh 05/05/2008 00:06:35
Now that SLAB has put me into a cold cold sweat by making me think about independence v's the comforting apron strings of Wendy, Gordon, Jackie Baiile et al, I've naturally taken extreem fright at the prospect of going it alone and will vote for the status quo and the old certainties of life under labour in perpituity.

NOT !
3

Richardinho,

05/05/2008 00:09:06
Well it looks like Wendy's finally cracked.
Pretty pathetic that she only wants a referendum cause she thinks it will benefit the labour party-not because it will benefit Scotland.
I see that a massive new oil field has been discovered in Scottish waters. Maybe this time, Scotland can benefit from this.
4

A Friend of Alternative Mighty Mario Voltaire,

05/05/2008 00:12:30
Wendy has waited a couple of months too late to hit the ejector seat.

Sir Thomas Kwikfit has a few wise words for Alex Lardy:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/scotland/article3868220.ece
5

Richardinho,

05/05/2008 00:13:49
'However, if, as Ms Alexander believes, independence is defeated in the plebiscite, it could prove the most masterly of political moves, by robbing the SNP of its raison d'être and its biggest weapon.'

Not really. A 'no' vote is not going to change my mind. I don't mind waiting another 20 years for the next one if that's what it takes. The SNP's biggest weapon is that they stand up for Scotland, whilst wendy takes all her orders from Westminster.
The key phrase in this article is; 'the Prime Minister has not made a decision on the issue yet.'
How amusing if Gordon decides to slap her down on this!
6

Richardinho,

05/05/2008 00:16:54
Hopefully the SNP wont move to quickly on this. If Labour have shown their hand, we should let them sit for a while and see what happens before we make our move. We've had 301 years of waiting, we can wait a wee a bit longer!
7

,

05/05/2008 00:17:04
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
8

subrosa,

05/05/2008 00:17:55
Decide in haste, repent at leisure - or such like. I'm sure Alex will play it his way regardless of Wendy's so called bluff. Thought there was something in the air when I viewed the Politics Show earlier. Obviously the question had been set up because when Glenn whatever asked it I could see her bristling with importance.

Her hatred of the SNP was so clearly visible by the way she continued to say "The Bill' with contempt. Pathetic.
9

bring them on,

05/05/2008 00:19:23
The fewer decisions Brown makes the better.
10

bring them on,

05/05/2008 00:23:12
Brown was the worst lecturer at Glasgow Tech ever.

Turned up late and wisnae interested.

Funny how some things dinnae change.
11

bring them on,

05/05/2008 00:26:17
#13

Are you a communist?
12

Al Ford,

Insch 05/05/2008 00:26:24
"Once again, Alex Salmond has goaded Labour on to his territory." Well done, Ms Alexander, you have taken the bait.

I don't see the SNP government changing their timetable to accommodate you, however. Do you? So you will have to try to outflank them by getting Mr Brown to organize a referendum for you at a time of your choosing. Will he be able to make up his mind in time?

Bring it on, as you put it. Let us see what questions will be put and what conditions will be applied. (We haven't forgotten the infamous 40 per cent rule that was attached to the first devolution referendum.)

A referendum to save the Labour Party's bacon? Not exactly a noble cause. The panic button has been pressed.
13

Vivas,

Edinburgh 05/05/2008 00:29:16
"Ms Alexander is confident the Scottish people would back the Calman recommendations, not full independence."

Further proof if any were needed that Broons *already written* "the Calman report". The 15 numpties just need to put their name to it when instructed to do so.

14

Sanny,

Glasgow 05/05/2008 00:29:33
This is really the nuclear option for Scottish Labour: “If we’re going to go down we will go down in a blaze of glory”.

If as planned by Salmond, the referendum issue is put before the parliament at the end of a (hopefully) successful SNP period of government; if agreed, then there is a high probability of success on to two option referendum. If refused, then Salmond can go to the country with the cry that the ‘other party’s’ are denying Scotland a democratic choice. It’s a win-win situation for the SNP.

By calling for an early referendum Wendy hopes to catch the Scottish electorate in an indecisive phase and to muddy the waters further by introducing a multiple choice question; in the hope that the electorate will go for the middle and less extreme option of undefined greater powers.

This is really a last ditch defence by a discredited party – all three – Labour LibDum and Tory – to deny the Scottish Nation their birthright. We will not let it happen!!

It is disgraceful that the once proud Socialist movement that started in Scotland will be led into oblivion by this harridan who is not fit to claim the mantle of men such as Hardie, Maxton or Shinwell.
15

baffies away,

05/05/2008 00:30:47
She is calling for the referendum right away because by 2010 it is likely we will have a Tory Government in Westminster which increases the chances of he referendum being succesful. She is a Unionist and Labour will never rule at Westminster without the Scottish MP's, sounds like they have conceeded the next election and are trying to safeguard their longer term futures, very very risky given the general incompetance of SLAB at the moment. To me it looks like she is running around after the SNP again, once again they have made her look silly.
16

bring them on,

05/05/2008 00:34:30
At least LibDum have class.

Brown has shown, beyond any doubt, that he couldnae row single handed across the pond in his back garden. Which, and I will tell you now, is paid for by tax payers money, and hard graft (but no his). Time to step down, and say sorry
17

Vladimir Ilyich,

05/05/2008 00:37:23
#14, get them ov,

Would that be a problem for a poster on this board, like?
18

bring them on,

05/05/2008 00:38:11
Changing the subject.

Typical politcian
19

catgut,

pomona 05/05/2008 00:38:58
last squeek from wendy before she and her party get flushed down the gludge.
they can't afford to wait too long as they are going to get kicked out in england, then the result of a referendum is far from clear.

Poor old sir ken what is his talking shop going to come up with now as independance was not one of the answers that they were supplied with.

The independence tide is coming in what can stop it.

#18 i agree
20

Senga Jean,

05/05/2008 00:39:24
She hates Scotland and like Broon wants only British interests to triumph. She thinks she can get the crooked question asked. " Do you wish Scotland to be alienated from averything you love and hold dear and will not get Eastenders anymore and your granny in Essex will never see you again" is not the question Wendy. Get real.
21

,

05/05/2008 00:40:01
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
22

bring them on,

05/05/2008 00:42:51
#23

Mr "Wish I Could Dae Something Right, but I was Born left"

Aye, we know your type. Try to close doon our ship yards. They tried that before, the jerries. Dropping bombs.... Duck off a waters wing.

23

James Annand,

05/05/2008 00:44:42
Stunned doesn't even begin.

All that "We'd better not have a referendum or we'll end up like Quebec" horlicks has been shown to be so much spin.

What of the 'neverendums'? What of the financial oblivion that would be the result of any referendum?

Does that go out the window when you need to win a pretendy poll? By that I mean that I believe that she's planning to have three, or maybe six, answers to a begubbined question.

In any case, I would prefer to see what she really means by this before I jump up and down with glee that I might finally be able to vote on a real future for this nation.
24

bring them on,

05/05/2008 00:49:45
#29

It's just he hums, and she trys to sing along.

There is no way they should get their huge wage packets.

A day doon the salt mine. That would show them about economics. No your Play Station, simulation trying to run the country.

No!!
25

Richardinho,

05/05/2008 00:50:09
Another point; if it's a three way question, then that considerably softens the blow of a supposed 'no' vote against independence. It would also make it easier for independence to get a 'majority' over the 'status quo' question.
If it's one thing we've learnt about new labour, they are awful at organising elections!
26

bring them on,

05/05/2008 00:55:36
#31

Why confuse the confusion?

The wee three way question might go down well in Larkhall, where the voters think before putting their names on the paper. But can you imagine what would happen in Coatbridge.

Are you oot of touch with reality?
27

R. Slicker,

05/05/2008 00:57:22
#30, show's yer's

It would be interesting to embrace the Clydeside Spirit again.

Bring back Jimmy Reid!
28

CRAGman,

05/05/2008 00:57:29
You don't get me, I'm part of the Union - 'til the day I die, 'til the day I die.
29

bring them on,

05/05/2008 00:59:22
#33

Good post.

Jimmy was an all round good guy. Even rounder in his later days.
30

bring them on,

05/05/2008 01:00:21
#34

What was that band again?

31

Richardinho,

05/05/2008 01:01:53
#32
That comment belongs on one of the football threads.shame on you for bringing that on here.

It's likely that it will be a three way question, at least if the referendum is carried out by Labour.

Then again, what will be presented as 'more powers' will probably be the flagpole erecting sort, with some real powers being taken away!
32

R. Slicker,

05/05/2008 01:01:55
The Strawbs
33

Douglas,

Bathgate 05/05/2008 01:06:37
And strangely enough another Strawbs hit was 'Lay Down'. :o)
34

bring them on,

05/05/2008 01:06:50
#38

Thank you

OK, so Brown gets a few votes from his old school pals. Aye, he went to an ordinary wee school, no big fees to pay.

Does that give him the right to take away the jobs from people without them.

Surely someone is going to stand up to this
35

subrosa,

05/05/2008 01:07:10
There could be something strange going on here. Wonder if Gordon is thinking that a referendum on Scotland might be better undertaken at Westminster to let them all vote on it.

I tend to agree with Astonished that they will have to surrender to the calls for one on the EU Treaty if they want to support one for Scotland.
36

bring them on,

05/05/2008 01:09:27
#37

Aye, thought I had seen your name before.

Politics is no fur the punters?

I'm expressing a view here.
37

Richardinho,

05/05/2008 01:12:13
#42 I'll be happy to tell you exactly why your team are a load of garbage whilst mine are pure dead brilliant any time you like, but on a football thread, here is not the time and place.
38

bring them on,

05/05/2008 01:13:24
#43

What's your point?
39

bring them on,

05/05/2008 01:14:22
#44

Have you been drinking again?
40

FS,

Stirling 05/05/2008 01:20:03
A good day for democracy. It's only a shame that it's taken consecutive disasterous polls for opposition parties to make them favour a move which unusually puts the decision in the hands of the people (rather than have supported it willingly).

Sovereignty of the people at last, perhaps?
41

bring them on,

05/05/2008 01:25:44
#47

What was that all aboot?

No clarity in there, when we need clarity.

Break it doon into easy bits.

Jobs for everyone, the honest working man can buy a new car every 4.5 years and have 1.2 kids.

Why are no of the big boys (and girls) saying that?
42

Vladimir Ilyich,

Guantanemo Bay 05/05/2008 01:29:22
I hear Raul Castro is to jack up doctor's salaries to £17 a week.

He's also increasing pensions to £4.40 a month!

What a guy! A Cuban Salmond!

43

bring them on,

05/05/2008 01:33:11
#50

And your guys cannae play football either.

No, only Scotalnd can rule Scotland.

Major assets- oil fields worth billions

Rangers- worth even more, after a roller coaster season
44

Matt there,

somewhere 05/05/2008 01:34:41
"I don't fear the verdict of the Scottish people – bring it on"

Hubris. Clearly not a word in her vocabulary...
45

Vladimir Ilyich,

05/05/2008 01:34:57
Colonel Blimp is a cartoon character.

The cartoonist David Low first drew Colonel Blimp for Lord Beaverbrook's London Evening Standard in the 1930s: pompous, irascible, jingoistic and stereotypically English.

"Gad, Sir", Blimp would proclaim from the Turkish bath, wrapped in his towel and brandishing some mundane weapon to emphasize his passion on some issue of current affairs.

His phrasing often includes direct contradiction, as though the first part of a sentence of his did not know what it was leading to, with the conclusion being part of an emotional catchphrase.

Blimp was a satire on the reactionary opinions of the British establishment of the 1930s and 1940s. Low described him as "a symbol of stupidity, and stupid people are quite nice."

George Orwell and Tom Wintringham made especially extensive use of the term "blimps", Orwell in his articles[1] and Wintringham in his books How to Reform the Army and People's War, with exactly the above meaning in mind.

A more likeable version of Blimp appeared in the classic British film The Life and Death of Colonel Blimp starring Roger Livesey and Deborah Kerr (The King and I). It was made in 1943, when the war was at its height by Powell and Pressburger. The "Blimp" character was named Clive Candy and is not actually called "Blimp" other than in the title. Prime Minister Winston Churchill sought to ban the film due to its sympathetic presentation of a German officer (played by Anton Walbrook), albeit an anti-Nazi one, who is more down-to-earth and realistic than the central British character.

The character has survived in the form of a clichéd phrase — highly conservative opinions are characterised as 'Colonel Blimp' statements.
46

kirk 1,

05/05/2008 01:34:59
Oh my! she's gone and done it good and proper this time. Our friends down south might just have an opinion or two on this subject.

West Lothian question, Referendum on treaty of Europe, and a call to reduce the powers of the scottish goverment, to that of the Welsh assembly if the vote was against independence.

Nationalists will hang her picture in their homes. (above the fireplace of course to scare the bairns)Independence, it's on it's way. Thank you Wendy.
47

Royster,

05/05/2008 01:43:04
There has to be a single referendum with a simple choice. Stay part of the union and close Holyrood or have full independence. Constant referendums do nobody any good. Look at Australia; we have the republicans trying to drum up the issue again after losing the first vote. Scotland should either be a full partner in the union or completely independent. The current Holyrood set-up is a half-way house whih pleases no one.
48

,

05/05/2008 01:44:12
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
49

bring them on,

05/05/2008 01:45:23
#54

Glad I read that
50

Vladimir Ilyich,

05/05/2008 01:46:27
#57,

You are on the wrong board.

We are bored with you.

Desist.


Cretin, Hootsmon hack.
51

bring them on,

05/05/2008 01:51:32
#59

OK, pal if it's politics your after I'm your man.


See, I studied it, and that's all you have to do become one.

Scottish politics from anytime you like till today (hasnae changed much, mind you), any question. The three parter, four parter.
52

bring them on,

05/05/2008 01:58:18
#61

Col

Chill oot....
53

Soosider,

glasgow 05/05/2008 02:05:39
Have just watched the Politics show on the BBC iPlayer, Wendy Alexander was on and directly asked about the Sunday MAil exclusive on calling SNPs bluff by having a referendum on independence. Her answer was very revealing as she did not say yes rather it was answered by saying that if the SNP were serious they should bring forward the bill to the Scottish parliament for the referendum. She repeated this point several times.
So is she really for a referendum or is this another bit of gesture politics or is she trailing an announcement she will make in the parliament this week?
54

bring them on,

05/05/2008 02:11:58
#63

Well, I can hardly wait to find oot
55

bring them on,

05/05/2008 02:20:02
#65

Col

How's the estate? Those weeds must be a nightmare.

Getting the staff is always an issue
56

bring them on,

05/05/2008 02:20:47
#65

Col

How's the estate? Those weeds must be a nightmare.

Getting the staff is always an issue
57

bring them on,

05/05/2008 02:34:40
Col

The old PC is not as young as it used to be.

Too many damn keys on these things, if you ask me.

In the old days you just had to ring a bell....


Let me see...
58

bring them on,

05/05/2008 02:43:32
The State of Scotland.

Rangers, as if I need to say it, great.

Economy, as if I need to say it, in tatters.


Big meetings taking place to put it all right.

No sleep lost tonight, then
59

KampungHighlander,

Jakarat 05/05/2008 03:09:40
Just because Alex Salmond has promised not to try again for a generation if the referendum should fail does not mean that any SNP leader who follows Alex will be bound by that promise.

Does Gordon Brown keep Tony Blairs promises?

He does not even keep his own. (EU Referendum)

The Unionist side have deluded themselves that the referendum is a one off. They will see referendum after referendum any time that Nationalists believe it has a chance to pass.
60

Guga II,

Rockall 05/05/2008 04:24:48
I note that The Mouth of the South had to check with her politicl masters in Westminster first before she made her mind up. Typical, isn't it. It is little wonder that they are called the New Labour Sleaze and Corruption Party (North British Branch).

I also note that she is so arrogant that she, and the Hootsmon, think that the Unionists will be setting the questions on an independence referendum ("a three-question referendum, organised by the Westminster government." I would have thought that that task was one for the Scottish Government, not her, not the New Labour Sleaze and Corruption Party (North British Branch), not her Unionist buddies, nor the English government.

The Hootsmon , in this article seems to think that a referendum will be "organised by the Westminster government". Why is this? Moreover, their comment that Maggie Broon has not yet made up his mind is irrelevant. It is nothing to do with him. This arrogant, Stalinist, totalitarian control freak has no right to even think about stopping the Scottish people making decisions on their own future; regardless of whether he thinks he does or not.

As to the timing of a referendum, that again is a matter for the Scottish Government, not London and not The Mouth of the South. This illustrates just how arrogant the New Labour Sleaze and Corruption Party really are. Somebody needs to remind The Mouth of the South that she is not in power in Scotland.
61

Mr Meddle Muddles,

05/05/2008 05:35:13
I hope the SNP take not and produce there bill later this year.

The problem for Scotland is of course that the SNP hate democracy and could not care less for the wishes of the people of Scotland. Once a no vote is returned to the referendum they will just start the process again.

The SNP, through their single-mindedness, are finished as a serious political party. Can you imagine the SNP governing Scotland within the United Kingdom and accepting the Union as the will of the people?
62

A trace of sodium,

05/05/2008 05:42:58
The SNP and Wendy Alexander are a national embaressment. Let's just have a vote, vote no, and be done with it.

Scotland's real problem is that after a no vote the SNP will continue to try and ruin Scotland out of spite.
63

Phil C,

05/05/2008 06:02:31
While the SNP has to be seen to be pushing for a referendum, they need more time to persuade the many cautious voters who believe traditional party scaremongering. I think that 2 years is maybe the earliest a fair vote on independence could take place. Whatever happens, Labour will try to fudge the issue by putting forward lots of options to dilute the outcome of any vote. Given their obvious lack of organisational skills, they should be kept well away from any decisions! I think it should be a straight Yes or No vote.

As for Wendy- 'Bring it on' indeed! It's not in her power to do so. She should concentrate on her upcoming role in Allo Allo, starring as the Madonna with the big boobies looking for her sausage (see photo). She and the rest of numpty Labour can at last see the growing support for independence, resulting from the SNP's competent performance in minority 'government'. Labour are running scared. You can smell the fear.
64

Damy Ruby,

05/05/2008 06:10:48
Quote : Mr Brown is cautious about backing a referendum. However, The Scotsman understands the Prime Minister has not made a decision on the issue yet. UNQUOTE

The Brown Man cannot make a decision only tax tax tax and spend spend spend!
65

KampungHighlander,

Jakarta 05/05/2008 06:11:05
#74 & #75

Would you castegate Labour for remaining committed to socialism?

Would you criticise the Tories for remaining true to their core beliefs?

Every party has its own ideology or core values.

You should not be surprised that the SNP will continue to push for independence until it is achieved.

After that who knows, maybe if you dislike the SNP so much and wish them to disappear from the political landscape the best way is to vote for indepenence in the referendum.

As long as Scotland remains trapped in this unequal union the SNP will continue fighting for Independence.

Thats what is called democracy.
66

Royster,

05/05/2008 06:18:47
#78. The union was perfectly fair until devolution. England had more votes than Scotland for the simple reason that more people chose to live there. It's called democracy.
67

Royster,

05/05/2008 06:20:55
If there is a referendum, it has to be the end of Holyrood if people in Sctland vote to remain part of the UK. Why should taxpayers in the rest of the UK invest their cash in Scotland if there is a cash it may secede in 15 to 20 years time?
68

KampungHighlander,

Jakarta 05/05/2008 06:27:07
The dynamics of the Neverendum reminds me a lot of what a police detective once told me about catching criminals. "They can win the game 10,20 or 30 times. I only have to stay in the game and win it once."

So for all those who claim they are tired of the constitutional squabbles its pretty simple.

If you want to put an end to it vote Yes for Independence in the referendum in 2010.
69

Royster,

05/05/2008 06:30:59
#81. Do you think the unionists wiill disappears with 'Yes' vote to independence? I don't.
70

KampungHighlander,

Jakarta 05/05/2008 06:32:53
#80

I would certainly hope that the choice in the refendum was as stark as Total Independence or a return to Pre-devolution.

Unfortunately even Wendy and Gordon are not quite that stupid.
71

Royster,

05/05/2008 06:35:54
#83. That would certainly play into the SNP's hands but 'In for a penny, in for a pound'. All or nothing is the way to go.
72

KampungHighlander,

Jakarta 05/05/2008 06:39:23
#82

"Do you think the unionists wiill disappears with 'Yes' vote to independence?"

Yes, I do. There my still be a few members of the Orange Lodge. Unionist diehards. But after Independence
the fear of change which accounts for most unionist support will disappear.

The Unionist Diehards will probably form their own party, much like the UKIP or BNP. They will never have much political support.
73

KampungHighlander,

Jakarta 05/05/2008 06:50:36
#83

Mind you, since the Government in Westminster is most likely to be led by David Cameron.

The Tories from day 1 have been opposed to devolution.

It is possible that Cameron would give Scotland the choice of Total Independence and a return to Pre-Devolution.

This will allow Cameron to present himself as fighting for the Union based on Tory ideals, while secretly hoping we leave so the Tories can remain in power forever.
74

Teamdroid,

05/05/2008 06:50:58
So many questions to answer here Wendy. A tiny hope that maybe a Scottish journalist will actually ask them:

1. Why did you spend so much effort opposing a referendum previously, and what has happened to your reasons for doing so?
2. Why has your Calman Commission not been asked to look at independence, if you are now proposing a referendum that includes such an option?
3. If a three question referendum is being proposed, will it be a 1-2-3 choice, FPTP, or a "special threshold" required for the independence option?
4. Why not do all this through the National Conversation, which was perfectly open to all, not just peers who bunged you 950 quid? Oops, answered this one for you already...
5. This referendum, it appears, is to be set up by Westminster in 18months. Do you seriously believe Gordon will have any authority at all by then?
75

Blarney,

Helensburgh 05/05/2008 06:56:25
Hey Hamish, what about the story with Alex demanding control of the Oil wealth?
Bit of a distraction this story, the Sunday Mail ran it yesterday, except it was Broon who was talking about a referendum not Bendy.
2011 is the year, a few more years for Labour to dance to the SNPs jig, Yooch!!
76

Alex, Young Laird d' Drumchapel,

Madrid 05/05/2008 07:04:11
I say let's have it now. There's no way the 3 oppostion parties can agree on a defined 'more powers' option in say 100days.

This is panic and is designed to keep Brown in office as 'Britain's Saviour'.

As things stand I think Scotland can win this referendum! I'm ready.
77

Jimmy the Pie,

05/05/2008 07:21:53
#5 Richardinho,

You're right, even in the unlikely event of a no vote, I'll never stop lobbying and fighting for Scotland to be independent - NEVER.
78

yockel,

05/05/2008 07:26:33
You have to hand it to Labour, they are consistent in being inconsistent.
79

Rickie,

05/05/2008 07:29:37
Wendy's not scared of the Scottish public opinion and the Scottish Constitutional Commission have findings.

Bank holiday joy or what.

You do know I am being sarcastic as niether holds true!

First is a panic move second is around 300 years too late...
80

W U Merchant,

Aberdeen 05/05/2008 07:36:32
It seems to me that you nationalists can't have it both ways. You want a referendum, Ms Alexander now supports a referendum, and you are criticising her for her U turn. I suspect that when the great R day comes, you will be quaking in your boots.
81

catgut,

pomona 05/05/2008 07:37:26
The question should be

Scotland a republic YES or no
82

Rulesbutnotrulers,

Federation, not separation 05/05/2008 07:39:12
Let's have this referendum!

First let's have a fully informed debate about the pros and cons of independence. For example let's make a list of all countries the size of Scotland which are doing well, and those doing badly.

Let's also have a discussion (and choice)on the logical alternative to BOTH the Union and independence = a Federation of Great Britain.

Then let's have further referenda (either way) so that we can change our minds if things don't work out.
83

happyhibbie,

The Inch, Edinburgh 05/05/2008 07:44:44
I'll vote yes for independence in the referendum, if it happens, only because I don't relish the prospect of the next 50 years of tory rule from Westminster.
84

Carlung,

Haddington 05/05/2008 07:49:57
Exploration of a recently discovered North Sea oilfield has revealed it is significantly bigger than was first thought.
The Buzzard field is now being hailed as one of the biggest finds in 25 years after revised forecasts suggested it may contain more than one billion barrels of oil.

Figures released in January suggest the field, 125 kilometres north east of Aberdeen, could yield around 400 million barrels - 25% more than was forecast when it was discovered.

London will have to move the sea borders again, can't have the jocks having all the money. They might use it benefit the Scottish People.
85

Rulesbutnotrulers,

Federation, not separation 05/05/2008 07:53:11
#97 Recent exploration has discovered oil around Shetland. I hope the SNP will support demands from Shetland for independence from Scotland.
86

David Maclennan,

Aberdeen 05/05/2008 07:53:29
A 3 option referendum on Independence is worthless.

Any Independence referendum should be a simple yes or no question.
87

bring them on,

05/05/2008 08:14:22
Quite honestly, this is a sham of a sham.
88

It's me!,

05/05/2008 08:14:52
I hope her brother Douglas Alexander isn't organising the referendum. We don't want another big b@lls up. Seen more organisation from a Paisley bingo caller.
89

walter,

05/05/2008 08:15:04
Ms Sturgeon added: "The policy the SNP put forward is that the right to choose Scotland's future belongs to the people.

Does that mean the SNP support the people choosing whether Scotland joins or remains part of the EU.
Does it mean the SNP support the people choosing whether Scotland retains the monarchy or not.
The answer to that is a resounding No.
The only reason that the SNP insist that it is the people choice whether to become independent or not is so they can use the fact the unionist do not support a referendum as a way of crying foul at the union.
The SNP want a referendum, they now have the support of Labour and with their 46 seats added to the SNPs 47 seats they cannot lose the vote so why wait.
Lets go for it or are the SNP to scared, have they not had enough time for their promises and policies to collapse allowing them to blame the big bad union for their failures.
90

Calum10,

05/05/2008 08:16:32
Re: "Sources close to the Scottish Labour leader revealed she had been considering the major policy reversal for some time", and "the Scotsman understands the Prime Minister has not made a decision on the issue yet", and "her (Wendy) decision to back a referendum on independence leaves the Calman commission in a difficult position, as this is the one constitutional option that Sir Kenneth has not been asked to examine", and finally "it also leaves her Conservative and Liberal Democrat allies, who came together to create the commission, as the last two parties resisting calls for a referendum on independence."

Too many ifs in this piece. Too many still clearly undecided. However, it does reveal that the Calman Commission was simply set up to block the SNP. Now that Labour are in a panic they have fatally undermined the commission's remit.
91

Brian M,

Edinburgh 05/05/2008 08:25:49
Sounds like she's been on the Buckie
92

bring them on,

05/05/2008 08:29:46
#104

Not clear what your point is.

In a political debate, one must make valid comments with hidden agendas
93

KampungHighlander,

Jakarta 05/05/2008 08:41:02
#93
"I suspect that when the great R day comes, you will be quaking in your boots."

Not likely, we all understand that if it fails we just start the process again. If at first you don't suceed. try, try again.

#102

"The SNP want a referendum, they now have the support of Labour and with their 46 seats added to the SNPs 47 seats they cannot lose the vote so why wait.
Lets go for it or are the SNP to scared, have they not had enough time for their promises and policies to collapse allowing them to blame the big bad union for their failures."

All great strategists realize that battles are won before they are fought by carefully choosing the time and place of battle.

This battle will be fought at a time and place of the SNP's choosing. The fact that Labour party is flopping around like a hooked fish only helps things along.

The appropriate time for this referendum is after the next Westminster election and before the next holyrood one. With a minority Conservative government in power in Westminster with marginal representation for Scotland. This is the ideal time to bring down the Union.


94

Red Tower,

Dunoon 05/05/2008 08:45:18
The people who are showing up badly in this matter are the Lib Dems. They appear to do little else than snipe from the side lines.

It was not always so. I remember when the Liberals had a policy on the governance of Britain which many I would suggest would support i.e Britain as a federal state. But seemingly now as Lib Dems they can do nothing but wilt at the suggestion of any real change.

The Lib Dems have had but one fine hour in recent years. That was when they voted against the war in Iraq. Since then then they have lost their bottle.
95

KampungHighlander,

Jakarta 05/05/2008 08:45:18
That photo of Wendy makes her look like a hooked fish. I think the species is Large Mouthed Bass.
96

Tolle1,

05/05/2008 08:45:33
All the New Labour spin and rhetoric is coming back to haunt them. It is not only Gordon Brown who has to take the blame for the state the UK is in e.g. levels of illiteracy, child poverty, homelessness, individual household debt, gun and knife crime and a high level of house repossessions likely as under Mrs T.

Mrs Thatcher started the bandwagon of the selfish ideal rolling and Tony Blair followed with all his MPs happy to follow on, all the majority of them are worried about now are their jobs.

In 1997 there was high hopes that all the devastation Mrs Thatcher had caused, 15% interest rates, 3 million unemployed etc could be reversed and a more humane style of politics introduced to govern the country, however as the draconian cut by our Prime Minister of the 10p tax band has shown, this government only listen to those who have the power to ensure they are not affected by any political legislation.

There is no doubt it is time for the people of Scotland to be given the straight forward choice of voting yes or no for independence and Labour's panic u-turn move is to try and get the vote as quickly as possible before the real consequences of the last 11 years of this New Labour/Conservative government policies really start to bite.

The majority of New Labour and the other political parties MPs at Westminster are no more interested in the ordinary Scottish person or for that matter the rest of the UK either and time al