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Three little words that sent party running for cover



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Published Date: 10 May 2008
THE week began with three small words: "Bring it on." But it ended with the Secretary of State for Scotland being accused of running for cover and other senior Labour figures ducking difficult questions.
And there is now an apparently unbridgeable divide between Gordon Brown, the Prime Minister, and his Labour leader in Scotland, Wendy Alexander, who uttered the now infamous phrase demanding the SNP bring forward its plans for a referendum on independence.

Labour's meltdown yesterday brought accusations that Des Browne, the Scotland Secretary at Westminster, was "running scared". The Tories said he had refused repeated requests to appear on television to discuss the timing of a referendum poll.

Tomorrow, the difference of opinion between Ms Alexander, who wants an early referendum, and Mr Brown – who wants to wait until the Calman Commission reports next year – will be further exposed by Labour's deputy leader, Harriet Harman.

In a pre-recorded GMTV interview, she refuses on seven occasions to endorse Ms Alexander's "bring it on" call.

Ms Harman was forced to deny that Labour – following its worst national opinion-poll rating since 1930 – was being buffeted like John Major, the beleaguered Tory prime minister in the early 1990s. She insisted there was no "fundamental split in the Labour Party".

Ms Alexander doesn't even appear to have the wholehearted support of her brother Douglas, the International Development Secretary. He made it clear he backed the position of Gordon Brown, the Prime Minister, that any vote should not happen until a review into the future of devolution concludes.

Asked whether he supported his sister's call for a referendum "now", Mr Alexander told Channel 4 News: "I support the government's position."

At Holyrood, there was concern that Ms Alexander's remarks could undermine the Calman Commission. Nicol Stephen, the Liberal Democrat leader, feared the debate on Scotland's future would become "very polarised" between Ms Alexander, Mr Brown and Alex Salmond, the First Minister.

The SNP said a breakdown of the YouGov poll put it on 32 per cent, with Labour on 26 per cent, giving the SNP 23 MPs if repeated at a general election.

Meanwhile, a source close to the First Minister described claims that the SNP was prepared to "cosy up" to a future Tory government at Westminster as "utter rubbish".

Back in Scotland, Ms Alexander was said to be "seriously considering" the idea of bringing forward a motion in Holyrood next month on a referendum.

Under parliamentary rules, Labour are not allowed to bring forward an actual referendum bill as the Scottish Government has published a white paper with the intention of legislating in the lifetime of the parliament. But a motion may embarrass the SNP if they voted it down.

A final decision by Ms Alexander will not be made until Wednesday, after Mr Salmond outlines his programme for the year ahead. She has demanded he includes a referendum bill in that programme.

The tense atmosphere was summed up with speculation Ms Alexander was about to issue a resignation statement. But she had simply cancelled a constituency engagement because her children's babysitter was ill.


The full article contains 523 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 09 May 2008 9:45 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Scottish Labour Party
 
1

Angus Ogg,

09/05/2008 23:42:00

Aye, and Jackie Ballie has been spotted with a bottle of wine and a laptop heading round to Wendy's. The Hut had a face like fiz as well. Not a happy Start Wars extra :@)

I don't think it is for a girls night in.

A fiver says the girls are working out Bendy Wendy's resignation speech?

Have we been here before? I mean Wendy leaving the political stage to "get a life" outside politics?

With Labour MP's branding La Wendy "Kamikazee" and "Raving Mad" she is probably going to jump before she is pushed.

Whilst McAvities Cat Broon is not one for doing the dirty work, he is that Big Fist Thumpingly angry that must be guy close to be preparing the levers for the stage trap door beneath the brilliant, but bonkers Scottish Labour leader !!
2

druidh,

edinburgh 10/05/2008 00:07:42
Worth a read...

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article3904917.ece
3

,

10/05/2008 00:15:52
Comment Removed By Administrator
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4

Jude The Obtuse,

10/05/2008 00:21:45
#2,

I read and enjoyed.

#3, You have issues. Time for your meds.
5

Jabba Desilijic Tiure's Attorney,

10/05/2008 00:39:55
Enough.

My client, though often regarded as fictional, has rights too.

He has never gone on a girls' night out (or in) in Weegieland
6

BIG EYE,

Paisley 10/05/2008 00:43:44
Come on let's be fair, she has lost her brother's support but she has attracted to her right shoulder Lord Forsyth who thinks her tactics are spot on.

douglas was lucky, it was his turn to spend five minutes this month speaking to the people of Paisley and on returning home he decided o abandon her to avoid a family wipe out at the next election. That won't work either Douglas the voters of Renfrewshire will take you out first!

So now we can look forward to Lord Forsyth and socialist Wendy working hand in hand to dish it to the SNP.

This is dreamland for nationalists!

Bring it on!
7

BIG EYE,

Paisley 10/05/2008 00:43:44
Come on let's be fair, she has lost her brother's support but she has attracted to her right shoulder Lord Forsyth who thinks her tactics are spot on.

douglas was lucky, it was his turn to spend five minutes this month speaking to the people of Paisley and on returning home he decided o abandon her to avoid a family wipe out at the next election. That won't work either Douglas the voters of Renfrewshire will take you out first!

So now we can look forward to Lord Forsyth and socialist Wendy working hand in hand to dish it to the SNP.

This is dreamland for nationalists!

Bring it on!
8

karinxxx,

10/05/2008 00:45:57
Can they get rid of wendy after offering to suppor her.
9

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 10/05/2008 00:46:56

"Three little words"...."Bring it on."

Honest these, "Three little words"

Have really annoyed me when spoken!

Usually the only people that use them, is a person in a,..
'NO WIN' Position!

Usually a 'Smart Ar$**'!
10

,

10/05/2008 00:48:18
Comment Removed By Administrator
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11

Boy Wonder,

10/05/2008 00:50:27
The female half of the Alexander Brothers is a gift to the SNP and FM Eck.

Isn't she wonderful!! :D
12

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 10/05/2008 00:51:21

#3 Gina,

Watch out the,..'Red Pen' will be about at about, 10am!

13

Strathturret,

montrose 10/05/2008 00:51:58
Please stay Wendy.

Seriously if Brown forces Wendy out, I think Labour is finished in Scotland. They cannot any longer pretend they are a Scottish party. And who has Brown pencilled in as leader? Another appointment? Its just like East Germany.
14

Vivas,

Edinburgh 10/05/2008 00:54:09
#1 Angus ... Jackie carrying a laptop ? Sure it wasn't a deep filled stuffed crust pizza with extra cheese and salami ? ... she likes a mid evening snack before she has supper...
15

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 10/05/2008 00:54:38

#12,

BW! what on earth are you doing on here at this time,?
16

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 10/05/2008 00:58:14

BTW I have great admiration for Wendy, for her to use this phrase, she must of been Furious!
17

Boy Wonder,

10/05/2008 00:59:12
#16 Chuckles ... I'm keeping the owls company. We all know why you're on!
18

the_figures_are _fudged,

Galashiels 10/05/2008 01:04:56
Wendy is the only Labour politician I can hear who is actually facing up to the reality that a referendum WILL be held.

If Scottish Labour are to retain any credibility they should get behind Wendy with everything they have got and distance themselves from the incompetent bungler that Bean in Westminster has become.

Perhaps this will be the end of "new Labour" and good riddance to it as well.

New labour never had anything in common with original labour ideals and values, perhaps at last Labour in Scotland will come to its senses and return to its roots.
19

Guga II,

Rockall 10/05/2008 01:08:57
There is one thing I'd like to say to Maggie Broon, the leader of the New Labour Sleaze and Corruption Party, and well known Stalinist, totalitarian control freak. When are you going to have a general election for Westminster? Bring it on!!!!

I also hope that this whole farce highlights the fact, to people in Scotland, that the New labour Sleaze and Corruption Party (North British Branch) is run and controlled by London.
20

a proud doonhamer,

Dumfries 10/05/2008 01:09:39
Interesting numbers in the recent YouGov and Populus polls.

Populus Westminster Poll for the Times
Scottish Results May 2-4 2008
(est. seats Electoral Calculus)


SNP 41 (43)
Labour 25 (8)
Conservatives 18 (3)
LibDem 11 (5)


YouGov Westminster Poll for the Sun
Scottish Results May 7-8 2008
(est. seats Electoral Calculus)


SNP 32 (23)
Labour 26 (21)
Conservatives 21 (7)
LibDem 13 (8)



Average of both polls


SNP 36.5 (36)
Labour 25.5 (11)
Conservatives 19.5 (5)
LibDem 12.0 (7)
21

Mercian,

10/05/2008 01:18:37
She actually looks quite sexy in that photo!!
22

,

10/05/2008 01:28:09
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
23

Huntly loon,

Aberdeenshire 10/05/2008 01:33:41
Wendy Alexander has stumbled from one disaster to another as leader of the Labour MSPs. In a way I feel sorry for her. She put herself through the embarrassment of the the dodgy donations, but came out the other side, with the opinion that she had been entirely vindicated. Also the loss of all her spin doctors says something about her manner.

Instead of learning from her mistakes and employing caution in her actions, she opens her mouth before she has got her brain into gear. She was so desperate to impress on the Politics Show that she could not keep her own counsel.

She is the sort of woman who could not keep a juicy piece of gossip without passing it on, to impress her hearers. That might be ok at the tenement stairhead but not in a political leader.

She is just too accident prone to survive now. Her nerves must be totally frayed for she must be getting it from her London colleagues. I can only imagine what Browne and Cairns have said to her. I cannot believe they have not spoken to her. Even her brother Douglas must be getting it in the neck. The English Labour MPs must be getting really fed up with Brown, Darling, wee Douglas and Wendy. The Scots contingent have made a dreadful fist of things since Blair departed. I think a whole clearout of the Scots in the cabinet is going to be the price Brown pays to stay in No 10. He has surrounded himself with too many cronies who have given him nothing but headaches.

Wendy is a loose cannon and her days as Holyrood leader must be numbered. Maybe its all 'water off a duck's back' to her, but I think most folk would wish to resign, if they had made such a monumental mistake at work. For the good of herself and her family she should maybe retire from public life as she is not cut out for it.
24

Navvy,

10/05/2008 01:35:26
LOL
25

,

10/05/2008 01:48:22
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26

,

10/05/2008 01:53:38
Comment Removed By Administrator
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27

a proud doonhamer,

Dumfries 10/05/2008 02:02:23
George Foulkes for Labour leader at Holyrood... sounds like a dream come true.

28

Guga II,

Rockall 10/05/2008 02:15:59
#22 Mercian.

Methinks you've been on your own for too long.
29

Marky Bhoy,

Ecosse 10/05/2008 02:18:58
If You believe in the union good on you However it is up to the self determination of the Scottish people if we wish to remain in it

Lets gave a vote on this in 2010 and if Scotland loses 2015 sounds good for a replay

UNIONISTS you must win all the time we only have to win once and it is Independance
30

Samoyed,

10/05/2008 02:20:16
I'm a bit confused.

Are the Labour MPs asking for Bendy resignation Scottish labour MPs? or English labour MPs? or a mix of both?

Does the resignation of MSPs been devolved or is it still a reserved matter?

What happens if MPs want her resignation but MSPs don't?

Don't they have to ask the labour interparlamentary commision to rule about the difference of opinion?

If this commision rules against the MPs do they have to resign instead? Same thing for MSPs?

Does the Scottish labour supporters left ( the whole 7 of them) the right to say something before the decision is taken?

What if Bendy say "that's not what they are saying" when told she's been asked to resign?

But worst of all, I can't understand why that fellow Ian wants to boil Wallace's lance? Has it being infected? When? By whom? Wouldn't Nicola Sturgeon have to approve the boiling before it happens?

Can anybody please clarify? Please, pretty please?
31

Jude The Obtuse,

10/05/2008 02:30:26
It's a total crock of the proverbial.

Scotland will take decades to be grown-up enough for self-determination.
32

Jude The Obtuse,

10/05/2008 02:33:45
#27 needs deletion.

She's a ****
33

Guga II,

Rockall 10/05/2008 02:57:20
#33. You picked a very appropriate name, especially the Obtuse bit. And isn't Jude the name of some catholic saint, something about lost causes.
34

,

10/05/2008 03:22:20
Comment Removed By Administrator
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35

Julian.,

edinburgh 10/05/2008 03:26:55
Mark Bhoy #31

"Lets gave a vote on this in 2010 and if Scotland loses 2015 sounds good for a replay"

And how exactly can Scotland lose? The outcome will be what the majority have decided.

You are a typical nationalist my friend: Telling the majority what's good for them, even if they don't want independence, delaying the vote until you can try and get more chance of winning and then requesting a reply a few years after if it doesn't go your way.

36

,

10/05/2008 03:31:08
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
37

Julian.,

edinburgh 10/05/2008 03:33:46
Guga,

Sorry but I think she looks quite sexy too in that photo.

I agree with you, bring it on Broon. He has absolutely no legitimacy and will be punished for his sins. Unfotunately it will take 2 years. As for Wendy, I beg to disagree. It's a breath of fresh air to see someone so high up in the party break free from the party line.
38

Castaway,

10/05/2008 04:13:25
#31: Marky Bhoy, UNIONISTS you must win all the time we only have to win once and it is independance.
On or before 3 June 2010 UK general election.
Possible Scottish referendum 2010
May 2011 elections to the Scottish Parliament
Between 2009/10 to 2014/15 UK GE
May 2015 elections to the Scottish Parliament
In the 2010 Scottish referendum with a yes/no answer 50% plus one in favour will count.
If in any UK general election the SNP return 30 seats to the UK Parliament would that count as a vote for Scottish independence ?
If in any election to the Scottish Parliament the SNP have 65 seats will that be an endorsement for independence ?
39

Willie Macleod,

Wick 10/05/2008 04:37:32
Calvinist said on yesterdays paper What do these forums say about us. Read them and see. We can not discuss our future without humiliating and degrading any one who disagrees with the group mentality and by that I mean Unionist And Nationalist
40

KampungHighlander,

Jakarta 10/05/2008 05:21:19
The Times has produce a very good article that explains Labours confusion.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article3904917.ece
41

missing home,

la verne 10/05/2008 06:14:16
29, guga, my thoughts exactly! She looks dumpy, frumpy and grumpy. You two guys who thought she looked sexy need to clean your specs or get a life!
42

izzie,

dundee 10/05/2008 06:24:30
How long do you think it will be before a certain Labour MSP defects - it is becoming more and more obvious. Incidently its scary to think but for the last list msp Wendy could have been FM
43

Gammaracanthuskytodermogammarus,

10/05/2008 06:56:12
#31 Marky Bhoy.

You despicable lowlife.

Your moniker is enough to tell everybody where your allegiances lie.

However, to use a well known IRA quotation in your post is an insult to all the thousands of innocent people who lost their lives to that mob.

You disgusting specimen.
44

donald,

glasgow 10/05/2008 07:00:07
Are you sure it was laptop the bagumman had?

Wis it no' full o' Broon envelopes for Wendy's needy retirement fund?
45

Gammaracanthuskytodermogammarus,

10/05/2008 07:00:17
Wendy is a sexy babe.

You nats just dont appreciate true beauty when you see it.

Nicola looks like Stan Laurel.

Alex Salmond looks like Oliver Hardy.
46

Dooogie,

Highland 10/05/2008 07:15:32
If "Hot Lips" Wendy was the best choice for leader of the Scottish Labour Party, Who was second-best? If she goes or is pushed, what second-best numpty will represent them in our Parliament?

Is that a sharpening of knives I hear in the background?
47

Rulesbutnotrulers,

Federation, not separation 10/05/2008 07:19:52
Very disappointing comments on this so far. Have you all had a bad night? Such bile and nastiness, not say cries for therapeutic help.

Wendy is bringing this to the boil for sound reasons: all the indecision surrounding our future is unsettling and not impressing investors.

SNP refusal to vote soon is irresponsible and shows scant regard for us. Alex is doing well. It's a pity he has now been tripped up. Time for action, not complacent inaction.
48

brownlie,

10/05/2008 07:33:38
50 Rules

Does it not strike you as strange that opposition parties always criticise a government if they do not adhere to their election manifesto and here we have a situation where the opposition are positively urging the government not to adhere to their manifesto.

The nats made their time-table quite clear in the manifesto so why should they change it to appease the minority parties?
49

pehman,

sussex 10/05/2008 07:52:55
If slab REALLY want to test Scottish popular opinion then I can think of no better test than the STILL pending by-election in Motherwell.

After wendy gets the boot why not have two on the same day ?
50

Jimmy the Pie,

10/05/2008 07:55:05
#50 Rules

Are you saying every government should bring forward legislation whenever the opposition call for it???

Would Red Wendy do what the SNP wanted if she was FM?

Remember New Labour Sleaze are NOT the government any more, they are the opposition.

They'll be the opposition for a long time!
51

Independence? Bring it On!,

10/05/2008 08:07:18

#70 Just for Gammaracanthuskytodermogammarus

The sexier side of the WENDY.

http://tinyurl.com/5z34gq
52

Calvinist,

10/05/2008 08:08:36
#
Thanks Willie,

For those of you that missed my post yesterday, this was the gist of it:

"This level of discussion is very depressing and even frightening. If this forum truly represents the views of the people of Scotland, then I fear for the future of our nation. Are we going to be ruled by bigots and ideologues who are impervious to and incapable of rational discussion?"

Can you rise to this challenge? If not you destroy the future of generations to come- they will pay the price of this idiocy.

Perhaps the reason why Scottish Universities have been starved of funds by successive administrations (especially the present Scottish one) is that, in order to rule us, our masters are dependent on a population that is poorly educated and incapable of free thought?
53

Andrew D,

Brisbane 10/05/2008 08:20:01
I've never seen Iain Gray before but watching the Newsnight performance.

1. He is absolutely like Family Guy
2. He looks like he wants to cry and run away
3. Poor poor Labour.

They are truly ridiculous.
54

Danny Mather,

Edinburgh 10/05/2008 08:21:57
I love this bit from the "Wendy's Week" piece in the Times today

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article3904917.ece

It’s First Minister’s Questions at midday today, so I have a showdown with Alex Salmond. At about 9.45am, I ask him to meet me for lunch. It’s cunning. I’m messing with his mind.

“Now?” says Salmond. “I’ve just had breakfast. Why would I want lunch at 9.45am?” “Aha!” I say. “So you are ruling out the possibility of lunch?” “Well, aye,” says the First Minister, sounding baffled. “I’ll only want lunch later. At lunchtime.” “Hypocrite!” I say. I can run rings around this man.
55

jdships,

10/05/2008 08:22:59
50 Rulesbutnotrulers,

The SNP made their time-table quite clear in the manifesto so why should they change it ?
I was not an SNP voter at the last election .
However accepting the democratic situation I am prepared to give them to 2010 to prove to me they are worth voting for .
Am still a "don't know" but am happy to wait .
While Wendy may feel the situation is not impressing investors what in the world impression is she giving to Scottish voters ?,
Her political future must surely be in grave doubt !!
56

Jimmy the Pie,

10/05/2008 08:26:50
Well, with Red Wendy on the verge of leaving/being sacked, I'm putting my money (and all my not inconsiderable lobbying techniques!) on Lard Foolkes to replace her as Supreme Leader of New Labour Sleaze and Corruption.
With the leadership of His Lardship, the Union will be safe! (although the expense bill might be a wee bitty higher!)
57

Dollar Tim,

Dollar 10/05/2008 08:30:42
#55 That's us telt then. I wish I thought as highly of myself as you seem to think of yourself. Is it cold there up on your high horse?
58

Rickie,

Wearing a t-shirt of a wide mouthed frog! 10/05/2008 08:49:08
Wee Scabby Dug, "I support the government's position."

Which one? And, which one?

First which position and second which government :)

Oh hang on, the Alexander sisters could never answer anything, so we'll wait for those answers...
59

ExpatBackinScotland,

Carnoustie 10/05/2008 08:49:49
The more this all goes on, the more glad I am I came back to Scotland. I think personally when all is said and done, its not just about winnning a referendum, its about the princple actually being allowed to have one on independence atall(no vote on it for 301 years so far). I hope the people will vote for independence and standing on our own two feet. And That isnt just about better or worse(though as an economics graduate I know it would be better), thats just about maturity of the nation and belief in ourselves that we can and should choose the future direction of our nation. Its great that Labour will now support a referendum and that referendum should happen as per the manifesto pledge of the SNP. Elections and polls are NOT THE SAME as a vote to see our nation gain equal status in the world, no matter what the unionists say.Its exciting times. YES/NO is the way to go and I believe we as a people faced with that choice will decide to let go of the apron strings. Bring it on!!!
60

Yeti,

10/05/2008 08:52:37
Wendy ‘disowned’ by brother

http://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/Article.aspx/632562
61

megz,

glasgow 10/05/2008 08:53:57
i prefer 2010 as the date for it. Mainly for selfish reasons, hopefull the SNP will have proven themselves popular in government and i believe by that point the tories will be back in power and i'm hoping given the choice between tories and independence it is enough to push all the undecided people towards independence.
62

The Former Mr. Angry,

Perth 10/05/2008 09:00:50
"Bring it on!" - bit Gladiators for me. Her last FMQ performance rose to a shrill nedette crescendo before she remembered her anti-Senga lessons and toned it down a bit.

You just can't imagine Auntie Annabel using that kind of street approach to political rhetoric can you. But she remains the most credible of the opposition. Why she sticks with the Wendy-inspired commission is a mystery.

Broon must be spitting blood and teeth now, but he's dropped himself in the Brown Stuff now having endorsed Wendy as the "next FM". Messy...
63

Loki, Death Angel,

The Dark Side 10/05/2008 09:03:32
Three words that I think sum up the entire Scottish culture but have probably been said to Wendy several times by now, 'Take a Drink'

Stay alive people, it's the only way to live

Loki
64

megz,

glasgow 10/05/2008 09:04:24
labour are pretty much like neds, they have a mob mentality, they should adopt the rangers mantra 'no one likes us we don't care' (i think they really do care though just don't want to admit it.
65

cnoc nagers,

Heilans 10/05/2008 09:06:10
To quote Elton'so sad, so sad its a sad, sad situation and it sgetting more absurd'. Both apparently promoted beyond their abilities. The greatest sadness of all as a old time labour supporter until all the corruption carry on I see no one of any stature or ability waiting in the wings to take over. The only future is 10 years in opposition. Start singing, Elton.
66

cnoc nagers,

Heilans 10/05/2008 09:08:49
The Herald (am I allowed to mention them) is reporting that Bendy has already had calls to resign. Is the Scotsman out of touch or just ignoring this.
67

Nikostratos,

10/05/2008 09:10:52
#51 Brownose

Not so long ago when the snp reneged on some of their Manifesto commitments they said they were only 'Aspiration's'.

How you Nat's conveniently forget when you want to

#64 Megz

I admire your honesty at least you unlike most of the 'nationalists' beasts tell like it is
68

megz,

sorry if this has been posted already but it is so 10/05/2008 09:10:55
sorry if this has been posted already but it is so funny

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article3904917.ece

And this;
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/scotland/article3904248.ece Love the picture btw
69

Independence? Bring it On!,

10/05/2008 09:12:27
The comments in the Daily Torygraph are amazing in their depth of dribbling jingoism.

All baited on by Vicki Woods, spectacularly laced with hatred. Seems her hubby is Scottish...

"Oh, and about our UN seat. Not the ordinary one where we snuggle up to our big buddy America, but the special one, the Security Council one, the one where we really do punch (or flail wildly) above our weight. China, France, Russia, the US and us? Don't think so. The Auld Alliance (between Scotland and France, remember) will have the most tremendous fun schmoozing India and kicking us when we're down. Chippy bunch, the Jocks."



http://tinyurl.com/6s4q44
70

megz,

10/05/2008 09:15:25
#71 Well what would be the point in lying? I find being honest is always the best policy, saves you having to remember what you've said.
71

Rickie,

Wearing a t-shirt of a wide mouthed frog! 10/05/2008 09:19:10
#72 - that is funny and so true.
72

Independence? Bring it On!,

10/05/2008 09:19:33
#71 Nikos

I completely agree.

"Our long term objective is a lower starting rate of income tax of ten pence in the pound"

-Labour 1997 election manifesto/aspiration
73

Fairfax,

10/05/2008 09:22:22
Independence (73): "The comments in the Daily Torygraph are amazing in their depth of dribbling jingoism."

They're fairly similar to this forum, albeit with an obvious change of sign.

"The Auld Alliance (between Scotland and France, remember) will have the most tremendous fun schmoozing India and kicking us when we're down."

That's unpleasant, but it's fear, not jingoism.
74

James.com,

Clifton 10/05/2008 09:22:41
So now we know who is in charge of Labour in Scotland......it's the Babysitter!
75

Jimmy the Pie,

10/05/2008 09:26:49
This has been the best couple of weeks in politics I can ever remember - brilliant!!!
Comrade Broon humiliated in the elections, and by Red Wendy.
Red Wendy humiliated by Alex, Nicola and herself.
Ian Grey humiliated as soon as he opened his mouth.
Lard Foolkes humiliated by his silence.
All the Unionists who accused the SNP of a 'deal' with David Cameron - humiliated.
AM2, Highland Pride/Niko, etc, all humiliated by superior intellects.

Oh happy days!!
76

Fairfax,

10/05/2008 09:32:38
Jimmy the Pie (80): "All the Unionists who accused the SNP of a 'deal' with David Cameron - humiliated."

I'm an English Tory (essentially) who supports dissolution of the Union. There is a growing minority here, particularly in the South-East, who support a Tory-SNP deal.
77

Independence? Bring it On!,

10/05/2008 09:33:05
#78 Fairfax, why would you choose to leave out "Chippy bunch, the Jocks"?

One of the more charming comments:

"I am an Australian, and I have one 'feeling' about all of this devolution talk.
We are a family.
We need to remain united and face all future challenges together.
There are many pressing concerns greater than this one.
Think of Australia, who would also have to change her flag, as well as New Zealand.
These republic scots people ought to shot, pure and simple.
Their plans are treason."



78

megz,

glasgow 10/05/2008 09:35:31
"Our long term objective is a lower starting rate of income tax of ten pence in the pound"

-Labour 1997 election manifesto/aspiration

its funny that, labour are now saying the 10p was always going to be a temporary measure.
79

mr angry,

ayrshire 10/05/2008 09:36:13
#44 I bet you are an oil painting , and spend most of your life fighting off the women.
80

Jimmy the Pie,

10/05/2008 09:38:27
It is one thing when Alex Salmond votes with other parties to benefit Scotland. There has been no 'deal' done with the Tories. New Labour Sleaze will try any dirty tactic/smear to try and discredit the SNP.

Doesn't seem to be working too well, does it???
81

Calvinist,

10/05/2008 09:38:41
# 60

Just read contributions of the calibre of #3 and get my point. You may disagree with what I say but there is no need to resort to snide insults. That's you telt!
82

C U Jimmy,

East Ayrshire 10/05/2008 09:41:50
Keep bringing it on... Wendy ! your doing agreat job.
83

Independence? Bring it On!,

10/05/2008 09:41:51
Iain Gray

http://tinyurl.com/57da32


Quagmire

http://tinyurl.com/6l9e9d


Seperated at birth.


Giggity giggity. Giggity goo
84

megz,

glasgow 10/05/2008 09:44:50
All the Unionists who accused the SNP of a 'deal' with David Cameron - humiliated.

This old lie was started by the herald yesterday and is now being portayed as fact by jackie bailey to every media source she can find.

The truth is;

It came as the SNP and Tories sought common ground for deal-making if Mr Cameron becomes Prime Minister. Mr Salmond said that Nationalists would vote with the Conservatives at Westminster after the next General Election if that was in "Scotlands interests".

"Clearly, if we could use Scotland's position to vastly extend its influence in a balanced parliament at Westminster, I would take up the negotiating position as First Minister of Scotland," said Mr Salmond. "We would judge policies as they came forward from the minority administration of the day and we would seek to extend Scotland's influence"

Thats not forming alliances thats working on an issue by issue basis in a hung parliament and if things are in the interest of scotland then what is wrong with doing the best for your country? I know i wouldn't demand anything less.
85

Fairfax,

10/05/2008 09:49:26
Independence (82): "Fairfax, why would you choose to leave out "Chippy bunch, the Jocks"?"

I thought I'd already made my point. This description is unpleasant, but not jingoistic. More controversially, it's made fairly often by Scots about Scots -- I have often heard one of my Scottish cousins say "A well-balanced Scot: a chip on both shoulders!".
86

Independence? Bring it On!,

10/05/2008 09:51:48
#90 Fairfax, old crocis, have you ever heard your Scottish cousins say:

"These republic scots people ought to shot, pure and simple.
Their plans are treason."
87

Publius,

London 10/05/2008 09:52:35
#64megz
Don't bet on it. The Tories are now having a modest revival in Scotland - a sort of ripple from their massive revival in the south. (For numbers see #21.) Come 2010 some Scottish wealthy types may well help to fund the Tories and a 'no' campaign on the referendum. Wealthy types like to be on the winning side. They won't want to alienate a Tory government in Westminster, because they want contracts and access to influence.
They also want an end to the posturing over a referendum. (Remember Sir Tom Hunter calling for a referendum to end speculation.) If it looks a no vote, they will join the yes side just to be among the winners.
88

Fairfax,

10/05/2008 09:52:49
Independence (82): "Think of Australia, who would also have to change her flag, as well as New Zealand.
These republic scots people ought to shot, pure and simple."

That's extremely unpleasant, but the poster claims to be Australian: it's not English jingoism.
89

Independence? Bring it On!,

10/05/2008 09:55:51
#91 Crocus. doh!
90

Independence? Bring it On!,

10/05/2008 10:05:20
# 93 Fairfax Feller, I fear you're stretching pedantry to it's most elastic conclusion.

The term 'Jingoism' is employed as a deprecatory term for the confident expressions of a culture that views its superiority over another culture as both self-evident and merited.

The Telegraph article and thread is full of jingoistic sentiments. Not quite sure why you'd choose to see it differently. Ho and indeed hum.
91

getinnnn,

Scotland 10/05/2008 10:06:43
"But a motion may embarrass the SNP if they voted it down.":
BLLSHT:
It is the SNP that were, and still are, calling for a referendum; in the face of opposition from Labout,Libs & Tory.......and also the Wendy Party at the start:But the referendum is supported by the population of Scotland. The date the SNP set is 2010 and they set that before anyone else. All plans are set around that date; the arguments are focused for that date; the People of Scotland are considering their vote for that date and listening to the due discussion.........and now this jumping "Jelly Bean" has decided to suggest a referendum before all this happens:
The SNP are quite right to stick to Their original timetable and not worry if the "Scotsman" thinks it would be "embarrassing" not to bring it foreward.


92

megz,

Glasgow 10/05/2008 10:08:47
#92 i've not bet on it (now the odds have been slashed whats the point lol) i'm just hopeful.

Luckily labour are skint so we don't need to worry about them funding anything. But you raise a very valid point, its not just your average joe like me they need to convince but business and the wealthy (the LIT certainly wont do that and although i'd be better off under it i think they should have a rethink on that one). Its a tough job, and will take time but i'm hopeful they can do it.
93

getinnnn,

Scotland 10/05/2008 10:09:53
"But a motion may embarrass the SNP if they voted it down.":
BLLSHT:
It is the SNP that were, and still are, calling for a referendum; in the face of opposition from Labout,Libs & Tory.......and also the Wendy Party at the start:But the referendum is supported by the population of Scotland. The date the SNP set is 2010 and they set that before anyone else. All plans are set around that date; the arguments are focused for that date; the People of Scotland are considering their vote for that date and listening to the due discussion.........and now this jumping "Jelly Bean" has decided to suggest a referendum before all this happens:
The SNP are quite right to stick to Their original timetable and not worry if the "Scotsman" thinks it would be "embarrassing" not to bring it foreward.


94

,

10/05/2008 10:10:00
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
95

Linda,

Edinburgh 10/05/2008 10:13:10
Some idea of what unionist press will come up with in referendum campaign..
Daily Mail (which has hogher circulation in Scotland than Herald and Scotsman put together) comment to-day: "The future of our country is at stake"......
“ No wonder Gordon Brown, a man too timorous to call a general election, go to the launch of the Lisbon treaty or touch the Olympic torch, has shied away from this initiative and left Wendy swinging in the wind.
A year ago, from a Unionist perspective, a referendum made sense. Now, with the Unionist parties in total disarray, it could catapult Scotland into catastrophic separatism. There are huge issues at stake here. Oil is the most notoriously volatile base for any economy and is a finite resource.
Economically, it would be suicidal for Scotland to leave the UK. Our public services, jobs, national security, social fabric and the life opportunities of future generations are at risk from SNP adventurism.
Those considerations - not the self- interest of our petty-minded, bickering
politicians - are what really matter. “

The Daily Mail letters email address is letters@dailymail.co.uk
96

megz,

glasgow 10/05/2008 10:15:10
20. England's oil reserves are worth over £250 billion. The E.U. now regards those reserves as a `shared E.U. resource'.

Englands oil? £250 billion you say? Is that all together or per year?
97

getinnnn,

Scotland 10/05/2008 10:16:37
2010 is not far away and the excitement is building already: Surely We will vote to take Our Nation back into Our Own Hands.
98

getinnnn,

Scotland 10/05/2008 10:31:38
#100 Linda
Congratulations on getting #100:
If the prospect of Scottish independence scares You then close Your eyes in 2010 My Dear....and do the Patriotic thing and let's get Our Nation back under Our Own control.
It is an immoral World and it is reckless to DEFER Our judgement, as a Nation, into the hands of the corrupt Westminster Parlaiment; Who will do as they will in spite of Scotland:- And have done.
99

Freedom for Scotland,

10/05/2008 10:34:58
" Meanwhile, a source close to the First Minister described claims that the SNP was prepared to "cosy up" to a future Tory government at Westminster as "utter rubbish". "

The "claims" were of course mad by none other than Liebour's Jackie Baillie.
Perhaps this is what is meant by the expression "it aint over until the fat lady sings " !

Well she has sung noo, and those of us who ACTUALLY care about Scotland and who INTEND to see Scotland takes its rightful place in the world are going to sing a new song!! It's called Freedom.
100

Truely English,

10/05/2008 10:36:40
99
Your information shows just how dependent Scotland is on Britain/England for her survival.
What you did not mention that we are one nation bound together by a common language (English) and a culture
which enables all of us to make our way throughout the world.
How can the Scots be so blind and deaf to all these benefits?

Finally, the Scots helped to create the British Empire and sustain it with the added bonus of spreading English to parts of the world that were uncivilised.

Can you imagine how difficult all our work would be today, had this priceless work not been done by the Scots in the British Colonies.
101

The Tin Man,

Over the Rainbow 10/05/2008 10:37:40