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Murphy: Labour allowed SNP to 'monopolise' saltire symbol

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Published Date: 29 June 2009
LABOUR blundered in the 1990s by allowing the SNP to "monopolise" the saltire, a minister said today.
Scots Secretary Jim Murphy said his party had allowed the national symbol to be co-opted as "an image of nationalism".

In doing so, Labour repeated its mistake of the 1980s when it had allowed Margaret Thatcher to "claim the mantle of patriotism" and wrap herself in the union flag, said Mr Murphy.

He made the admission in a speech in Stirling which sought to reclaim the saltire and to argue there was no contradiction between Scottish and British identities.

"All of us – across political parties and across civic Scotland – should challenge the notion that Scottishness belongs to any one political party," he said.

"All of us who value a strong Britain should embrace Scottishness, its emotions and symbols even more than we already do.

"Patriotism, national pride and the saltire belong to all Scots."

He went on: "This strong sense of Scottishness does not, and will not, translate into a rise in separatism.

"Being passionate about Scotland doesn't make you anti-British."

He told his Stirling audience: "In the 1980s the Labour Party lost its way and Scotland – and Britain – paid the price.

"We allowed Margaret Thatcher to claim the mantle of patriotism and wrap herself in the union flag.

"By keeping patriotism and its symbols at arm's length, the Labour Party helped the Tories to claim that their socially divisive economic policies were in the national interest."

He went on: "In the 1990s we made a similar mistake in Scotland. We allowed the SNP to monopolise the saltire.

"We allowed our national symbol – St Andrew's Cross – to be co-opted as an image of nationalism.

"Patriotism and nationalism are not the same thing.

"All nationalists are patriots. But not all patriots are nationalist."

The full article contains 310 words and appears in scotsman.com newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

 
1

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 29/06/2009 14:36:40
The SNP have indeed monopolised the Saltire symbol. The Unionist have monopolised the Butcher's Apron symbol.

Seems fair to me.
2

Lianachan,

Highlands 29/06/2009 14:39:09
"He went on: "This strong sense of Scottishness does not, and will not, translate into a rise in separatism."

I'll ignore his use of the term "serparatism", which these days in only ever heard when discussing "terrorists" is far off lands who're not pleased we/Uncle Sam are in their country..... but, I'm delighted to say that Mr Murphy is completely and utterly wrong in that quote. The complete opposite is true.
3

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 29/06/2009 14:49:31
I will be interested to hear Murphy's plans to reclaim the Saltire. An interesting concept that an English-based party would want to do such a thing in the first place.

I also look forward to hearing how he plans to argue that "Scottish" and "British" are fully interchangeable things.
4

nostress,

grangemouth 29/06/2009 14:49:46
The very fact that the weasel Murph uses the weasel word "seperatism" is syptomatic of the reason for Labour's decline. Like them the word has negative connotations implying heartache and misery. Now, if Labour were to embrace the concept of independence with its feeling of positivity and progress and standing on your own two feet, then they might have been seen as a party who cared about the people of Scotland instead of the party prepared to sell out Scotland for their own narrow aims of self-seeking avarice and corruption.
5

Jerry Springer,

29/06/2009 14:50:36
Jim Murphy - Scotlands next First Minister.

He talks more sense than all the current MSPs put together.
6

Jimbo2,

29/06/2009 15:10:40
Scots Secretary Jim Murphy said his party had allowed the national symbol to be co-opted as "an image of nationalism".

They did indeed, and they've only themselves to blame. Back in the days when Labour ran the majority of councils across Scotland, they refused to fly our Saltire for fear it would instill national pride - something they have endeavoured to subdue for decades.

They unionists have always looked on our national flag as a threat. It's easier to keep a country under the heel if symbols national pride can be removed.

So, how is Murph going to reclaim it? Is he going to insist that it be flown from all Labour-run council buildings across the country - in an inferior position to the butcher's apron of course.
7

Fletty73,

Stirling 29/06/2009 15:13:24
What's the opposite of "Sepratists" ?

Colonialists?
8

Porry,

29/06/2009 15:19:56
The saltire belongs to all patriotic Scots, not to a political party. Even though it is understandable that a party operating on the specific platform of Scottishness tries to occupy the all-Scottish symbol for its purposes. It's up to each and every Scot if they want to accept this.
9

Neil Waugh,

Old Strathcona 29/06/2009 15:21:28
"All of us who value a strong Britain should embrace Scottishness, its emotions and symbols even more than we already do."

What a totally confused, pathetic and deeply troubled - both emotionally and intellectually - clown Jim Murphy is.
So if the saltire is this great symbol of "Britishness" (whatever that is) will the Westminster Labore expense account fiddlers start flying it from the Houses of Parliament flag pole?
In your dreams.
The election/referendum only becomes more compelling.
10

Dún Aenghus,

29/06/2009 15:22:24
This is the Catholic MP who takes an oath of allegiance to the anti-Catholic English monarchy. What a snivelling little unprincipled subservient man he is.
11

morris,

edinburgh 29/06/2009 15:34:10
7

What are sepratists?

I assume this is a typo of course in which case the answer (in Scotlands case)is probably quisling,but it could be trough dweller.
12

morris,

edinburgh 29/06/2009 15:36:09
5
You dont. Thats for sure!
13

Sedov,

29/06/2009 15:36:35
Oh dear.. jingoism and national chauvism, the curse of the working classes.

Why do we continue to play into the hands of those who want to divide us rather than unite us through playing to our nationalist sentiments? And over a flag that means very little to me.

My flag is the red flag for all the workers of the world to unite around and not the false hopes and continued oppression that portray the saltire or the union flag.
14

morris,

edinburgh 29/06/2009 15:43:22
1 I think that just about sumarises the whole thing really .

According to Labour the SNP are obsessed by seperatism. It is their raison d'etre of course.

Strange though because they were accused of having a hidden agenda of separatism also.

So obsession employs a hidden agenda? Hardly sounds like an obsession to me when you hide it from the electorate?

Maybe its Labour who are obsessed by an outdated Union ?

I can think of hundreds of thousands of reasons for that , all of them Sterling reasons indeed!
15

Fletty73,

Stirling 29/06/2009 15:44:25
Aye, Separatists. Sorry about the spelling.

Now "quisling". That's a nice word.
I admit I had to look it up.

To Quisle. Cooperating with an enemy who has occupied his country / Traitor.

So Jim Murphy is a quisler. Fits perfectly.
16

morris,

edinburgh 29/06/2009 15:44:42
14 So why dont you go and live in one of your Utopias then?
17

morris,

edinburgh 29/06/2009 15:48:17
18 To be fair Fletty I was aware of it and we all do typos.
I am the worlds worst typist and I know it !

My apology if any offence was taken.None was intended of course (well not to you)but Skullduggery Murphy is another story.
18

Eve,

Scotland 29/06/2009 15:53:57
Does Jim no realise how easy it is to get the saltire? All you need to do is go to a shop that sells brickabrack and purchase one. Their available in many different sizes and prices.

No Jim yer wroung about the labels they are completely and utterly different. To you there may be no difference BUT yer one person. Some of us feel pride, passion and a burst of happiness when we are labeled Scottish or a Scot. When we are labeled Birittish we feel ashamed, anyoid and feel the need to correct.

May be Jim should look up the socialist interruption of labeling and how it's best to let people choice the labels that they feel associated with, that way you don't insult anyone.
19

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 29/06/2009 16:02:37
I notice that most, if not all, SNP MSPs wear a Saltire lapel badge.

I look forward to seeing Murphy do the same in his efforts to reclaim the symbol.

Incidently, I think Murph should check with his boss in London before embarking on this crusade. We all know that Brown hates to mention Scotland.
20

ppink,

29/06/2009 16:02:37
a yellow cross on a brown background 4u Jim...
21

morris,

edinburgh 29/06/2009 16:08:19
If you take all the Scottish bits out of the Union Jack, you presumably get what is to all intents and purposes near enough to a Saltire !
I would think that flag depicts the SNP perfectly ?
Besides the saltire with the red lion rampant was once an SNP badge.I think you can still buy them probably.

Labour have not embraced the Saltire enough, in fact not at all! The fault can only be Labours!
The explanation is simple enough.
Too busy singing we'll keep the dead flag flying here!
22

Tartan Viking,

29/06/2009 16:15:11
#1.connaughtboy

"The SNP have indeed monopolised the Saltire symbol. The Unionist have monopolised the Butcher's Apron symbol.

Seems fair to me."

Seems fair to me too connaughtboy, though I would say that the English monopolised the Butcher's Apron first, to the extent that this flag is synonymous with England all over the globe. It's nice to have the Saltire to differentiate.
23

Tartan Viking,

29/06/2009 16:17:38
The Lyebour flag should be the black skull and cross bones after what they have done to the economy along with a few pirate MPs who have stolen the public gold.
24

morris,

edinburgh 29/06/2009 16:17:39
21 You are making sense Eve (not for the first time of course).

Ive always said the true test of nationality is ASK THEM!
If they say individually British fair enough.If they say individually Scottish, equally so. They are what they wish to be as is the right of the individual.
However there is another consideration. What do the majority say?

If they say collectively one over the other,the people have spoken.No higher authority exists than freedom itself.
That is why we are in the UK we are told.
Okay so measure it and shut people like me up .
I want to tell Westmidden what the Scottish people think,not the other way round !
25

morris,

edinburgh 29/06/2009 16:19:23
26

Yes Its the nearest thing to the Satire they will ever manage,but Murphys face would not look out of place right in the centre .
26

Earman,

Paphos 29/06/2009 16:20:35
In the grand scheme of things, this must be around number 167, and I very much doubt it will reach the fab top forty!

Distraction after distraction. Have the Unionists not caught on that the Scottish electorate have travelled light years since the dark old days when they could easily be "headed off at the Pass" by such irrelevant bollix?

Keep up the Sterling work, Mr Murphy!
27

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 29/06/2009 16:21:44
27 Morris

I would suggest that of all the Unionist parties, the Libdems will crack first on the subject of an independence referendum. It is just not tenable to deny the people the right to express their views.

The other parties will stick doggedly to their denial strategy, but will make themselves appear deeply undemocratic in the process.
28

The Scotchman,

29/06/2009 16:23:53
- "We allowed our NATIONal symbol – St Andrew's Cross – to be co-opted as an image of NATIONalism.

Eh? Talk sense man!

Vote SNP
29

morris,

edinburgh 29/06/2009 16:24:23
28 Should read SALTIRE of course(but maybe I was closer than I realised)


30

Sedov,

29/06/2009 16:24:28
#19 morris- Utopia? -Isn't that what the NATS have promised if we all vote for independence?

Thankfully, the majority of the Scottish people know better and will, like myself, continue to struggle for a better society free from the class driven policies of the British state of which the SNP are very much part of.

The laughable part is that gullible people like yourself swallow the promise of a nationalist paradise in great mouthfuls. Its exploitation under another guise and you are taken along for the ride.

As the song goes.....When will we ever learn...
31

morris,

edinburgh 29/06/2009 16:36:51
30
Yes indeed.Im sure that the level ot Scottishness displayed by each of the Unionist excuses for a government elect, is proportionate to how big a kicking they get at the polls. The Liberals are in danger of disappearing in Scotland completely if they dont get their tartan credentials flashing soon,and The Tories have already tasted rejection. They claim a revival in Scotland but its akin to being at the North Pole and forecasting they will now travel south again!

We have a clear duty to ensure that Murphy is given as much encouragement to recognise his Scottishness as possible,by kicking him and his kind into touch.
32

Earman,

Paphos 29/06/2009 16:37:57
33

Do behave! The "Nats" have promised no such thing, and, although I would dearly love to see Scotalnd taking control of her own affairs like almost every other Nation in this world, I have no expectation of some "nationalist paradise".

Utopia is, in my opinion, a state of mind, not an actual place or any particular political system, and I fear that anyone holding their breath waiting for elected representatives of ANY hue to deliver "Utopia" in any form are destined to go blue in the face and expire.
33

dhu loch,

Inveraray 29/06/2009 16:40:39
Jim Murphy and Labour just don't get it!It's not about who has the best flag!!!Both north and south of the border people have had enough of this vile incompitent government.Jim if you don't have anything worthwhile to say please keep quiet.Even the Scotsman must cringe when asked to put out some of the Labour dross of recent weeks.
34

morris,

edinburgh 29/06/2009 16:43:27
33 At least I will live in a country that is of my own making and I have only myself to blame for what happens.You will never live in one of your choosing because not a single one exists anywhere, nor will it. That my dear chap is the difference between us. I may not achieve my Utopia, but I wont live in Cloud Cuckoo Land either.You will and die in it ,no further forward than you ever were.

I actually do have Socialist leanings and was always hanging to the extreme left of the SNP. I probably would like the society that you dream of.The problem is that Reality is a hell of a place to live,but where else is there?
35

morris,

edinburgh 29/06/2009 16:49:27
36 That is the whole point. Even if by some miracle Scotland decided we are voting 100% Labour IT WOULD only return 49 seats in a 600 plus parliament.

When you join the Labour party I wonder if you have to sit a test to prove that you cannot do primary school arithmetic?
36

Jimbo2,

29/06/2009 17:10:52
Dunno what's going on in Grangemouth, but the whole town is decked out in Saltires.

Is this part of Murphy's cunning plan?
37

Tris,

29/06/2009 17:24:10
The flag belongs to the nation; to the country, like everyone else's flags. The SNP didn't monopolise it; Labour left it behind.

It is flown, worn, displayed by people who are proud to be Scottish.

There's no reason why Labour or the Tories can't fly it with pride.
38

Eve,

Scotland 29/06/2009 17:27:32
#39 Jimbo2: May be St.Andrews day has come early this year there!!!

Lets see some photos of it, please.
39

go boil ur heid,

29/06/2009 17:35:20
jerry springer no5. I was going to report your post as unsuitable, but for some reason i couldn't stop my hand from shaking it's probably due to my choking with laughter.
40

Jim P,

29/06/2009 17:44:22
"his party had allowed"

We don't do things in Scotland because the London-based Labour or any other party "allow" it. We do it because we are citizens of Scotland and have always exercised out right to fly our flag.
41

BIG EYE,

Paisley 29/06/2009 17:49:20
Given the sun setting on the Union Jack in Scotland I can well understand Jimbo's rush for a substitute.

Problem is to have the right to fly it you have to remain loyal to the country not the Labour Party...a test that the Skull shows no sign of being able or indeed willing to pass.

Yes third place in Eastwood is probably you best outcome!

Bye!
42

Observer,,

Glasgow 29/06/2009 18:10:34
5 So Rufus you think that Murphy will opt for Holyrood when he loses his seat at the next Westminster election ? Which he most assuredly will BTW. Dead man walking politically speaking.
43

Eve,

Scotland 29/06/2009 18:13:28
#38 morris: Intersting theroy, though they'd have to be under the missguidince that their good at it for them to not use a calculator.

But then again with subtraction and divison you have to get the number in the right order to get the right answer.
44

Nevsky;,

Moscow 29/06/2009 18:16:07
Rufus*

Are you saying that Iain Gray has no chance of being the next first minister?

Shocking admission that you already admit that Grey and Labour will be defeated at the next election.

Of course if you agree with this you will also know that Murphy will lose his seat!
45

mad world,

29/06/2009 18:20:18
Butchers apron! That does make me smile.. does sound a little like name calling!
oh dear
46

Masterpiece,

29/06/2009 18:21:04
It is so good to be back in Scotland after a long trip in North America and in particular in Nova Scotia in Canada.
What strikes me this time in coming back is just how little substance there seems to be here in being Scottish as it all seems to hang on symbols and little or nothing that makes the individual different like language.

A large number of young people are now succeeding in learning Gaelic to fluency through social and cultural events rather than schools and the sense of achievement and pride is growing rapidly and they are just starting.

For years they were told the Gaelic language was too difficult for adults to learn but now they are showing just how quickly it can be done.
If any of you plan to go to Cape Breton or New Glasgow make sure you ask about what they are doing and how they are succeeding. I was very impressed by their work, commitment and dedication and the result is evident for all to see.

Flags are important but they are not part of the human brain or mind; language is though.
47

Alan B,

29/06/2009 18:30:28
It would help labour cause if they had not turned into an anti scottish party.

Scotland does not vote snp because of the saltire. Just simply as they seem the only party interested in scotland.
48

Alan B,

29/06/2009 18:34:59
Is Murphy saying the national library was wrong to ban someone from having a saltire on his desk.

It is labours anti scottish attitude over scottish culture and scottish history that is so apparent as they filled the estabishment with labour minded anti scottish pro british figures.
49

Number 6,

Germany 29/06/2009 18:51:10
How on earth did the Spin Doctors obtain Brown's permission for the Sec of State for "North Britain"
to use the "S" word?
50

Jimbo2,

29/06/2009 18:51:26
Eve # 42

Hi Eve,

came across this...turns out it's a Homecoming Fest - nothing to do with Murphy.

Check out Grangemouth's array of flags:

http://tinyurl.com/le2fke

http://tinyurl.com/l9d9jf
51

Observer,,

Glasgow 29/06/2009 18:58:04
''Scotland does not vote snp because of the saltire. Just simply as they seem the only party interested in scotland.''

Exactly Alan. The SNP are a Scottish based party who exist to change the future of Scotland. The Labour Party are a UK party who essentially wish to preserve the status quo. The SNP have no monopoly on the Saltire and never have done, but people associate it with them because of their distinctly Scottish perspective. Murphy seems to think that's cheating in some way. What he doesn't realise is that it is the electorate who associate the Satire with nationalism, the SNP can't ''co-opt'' a flag at will, it has to be done with the agreement of the voters. So Murphy is actually unhappy with us. Aw diddums.
52

Luigiana,

Aberdeen 29/06/2009 19:02:43
"LABOUR blundered in the 1990s by allowing the SNP to "monopolise" the saltire"

No - Labour blundered when it tried to monopolise the English Rose.
53

Raymond Thomas Brooke,

Leven England 29/06/2009 19:03:36
Can someone give me an intelligent answer why Westminster will not allow independence for Scotland nor a referendum for England where support for devolution has exceeded 60% in polls.
Where is this new form of open ness and will we recognise it when it comes?
54

Eve,

Scotland 29/06/2009 19:04:38
#55 Jimbo2: Thanks.

Never seen anything like it in my life! At least 8 Saltire and Loin Rampants, there and no an SNP symbol in sight. Jim should look at those photos and take note.

Never ever thought I'd see the saltire and the Lion Rampant outside FarmFoods.

No it wouldnae be! Murphy isnae what you would call inspirational, though I believe he can cure insomnia.
55

Luigiana,

aBERDEEN 29/06/2009 19:05:18
What is Mr Murphy's views on his party's "English Rose" symbol? Does he like it?

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA
56

Alan B,

29/06/2009 19:13:57
#Raymond Thomas Brooke

re devolution for england.

Labour and the tories only offer something if it is to their advantage.

The tories also do not like change and want to preserve the status quo.

If Brown offered england devolution then it would wreck his own power play.

If Cameron created devolution in england then it would wreck his power. He would have to give away half his power to another parliament.

The tories are also a funny bunch. They are half english nationalist. And half imperialist and hanker after the empire.

I think labour will probably after some time in opposition be more reformist regarding the constitution.

If John Smith had remain labour leader we would have seen a very different uk. Blair inherited scottish devolution but never believed in devolution conceptually.

Labour were also historically going to go down the route of english regionalisation but blair effectively killed that.

57

Alan B,

29/06/2009 19:19:15
#Raymond Thomas Brooke

Also while you say england support devolution by 60% they do not seem to have a strong yearning for devolution.

ie the simply do not vote for parties that support that. Some of that is to do with the first past the post system which denies other parties to grow.

But england has given much publicity and voted for ukip and the bnp. A party for english devolution has not caught the imagination. They have also not backed the lib dems who are federalist.

The tories remember also went against the idea of regional assemblies in england as they did not want another tier of government no mater how misplaced that logic. As such they would be less likely to want another parliament.

58

Masterpiece,

29/06/2009 19:33:46
I have never been able to work out why material items such as flags and often empty symbols have been so desperately important to the people of Scotland yet its language and culture counts for little or nothing.

Is it that one can throw away a flag at an inconvenient time but with a language and culture you carry it with you wherever you go.
59

Luigiana,

Aberdeen 29/06/2009 19:35:00
#64 Rab,

Call me cynical, but I don't think Labour's adoption of the national flower of England had much to do with socialism (remember they ditched clause four shortly afterwards).
60

Banana Heid,

Ayrshire 29/06/2009 20:24:56
Labour are 1 huge blunder which the people of Scotland should correct at the first opportunity.
61

Stephen_Gash,

Carlisle England 29/06/2009 21:29:41
Murphy quote: "Patriotism and nationalism are not the same thing.

"All nationalists are patriots. But not all patriots are nationalist."

What a dribble of nonsense! What happened to the Glenrothes by-election validation papers Mr Murphy? Why can't Labour's "victory" be validated. If the Scottish national flag has been given over to the SNP, what has Scottish democracy been handed over to?
62

Stephen_Gash,

29/06/2009 21:35:42
#14 Sedov,29/06/2009 15:36:35
"My flag is the red flag for all the workers of the world to unite around and not the false hopes and continued oppression that portray the saltire or the union flag."

Bwaaa ha ha ha ha! Of course there hasn't been a socialist country that has NOT oppressed its people, has there?

The international socialists - known as the internazis.
63

Dún Aenghus,

29/06/2009 22:38:37
The union rag is recognised the world over as the flag of England.What do we here in Scotland have with this foreign flag? Nothing,I tell you.
Since the Scottish people did not vote for this discredited union,we say put an end to it now.
Independence, NOW!
64

Dún Aenghus,

29/06/2009 22:40:06
#72 Should read "have in common with" Oops!
65

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 29/06/2009 22:59:36
Murphy is a fool, a tool and a stool.

A patriot is a nationalist-ask any patriot who wants their nation run by others.

The SNP did not monopolise the Saltire- the other parties never adopted it.

Do they make Murphy suck lemons before he talks down to Scotland?
66

Calum Crubag,

29/06/2009 23:10:05
So, if Labour are Unionist, why aren't they content with the UJ, like the Tories and BNP are?
67

Alan B,

29/06/2009 23:22:09
Labour can put the word scottish before labour. They can wrap themselves in the saltire to try to get people to vote for them.

But actions speak louder than words. And labours actions show a complete disregard for scotland.
68

For Scotlands Future,

Vote for the SNP 29/06/2009 23:38:27
"We allowed Margaret Thatcher to claim the mantle of patriotism and wrap herself in the union flag"

And how this is different from what Maggie Brown is doing??
69

Andrew BOD,

Aberdeenshire 29/06/2009 23:39:46
Once Labour in Scotland really do become 'Scottish Labour', then there would be no need for Uncle Jim to fabricate an association with the Saltire. Meanwhile, down south, Jim's boss is trying to talk up Britishness. Although it seems to be falling on deaf ears. So you see, it's actually Labour who are politicizing this whole flag and identity thing, just because they are having very their own crisis of identity.

The Saltire is not a 'symbol' of Scotland, it is our national flag, so it's natural for a national party to associate with the corresponding national flag. If they didn't, it would be unnatural.
70

For Scotlands Future,

Vote for the SNP 29/06/2009 23:50:17
I think the Welsh were very wise not to get themselves mixed up in the Butchers Apron.
71

craigy,

29/06/2009 23:53:04
Scots Secretary Jim Murphy said his party had allowed the national symbol to be co-opted as "an image of nationalism".
He made the admission in a speech in Stirling which sought to reclaim the saltire

1. Err sorry, since when did Jim Murphy and the Unionist parties have the right to decide who can and cannot use the Saltire. The SNP use it since they are the national party of Scotland. No one has said the other unionists in Scotland cannot use the the Saltire, they just chose not to. In fact it is only in the last couple of years that it has become an issue for them...wonder why that might be?

2.How can Labour reclaim something which was not theirs in the first place?
72

Iainbroch,

30/06/2009 00:55:25
Masteridiot strikes again!
73

karin Mac,

30/06/2009 07:24:19
"All nationalists are patriots. But not all patriots are nationalist."

What murphy appears to be admitting here is that there are two types of nationalist in scotland scottish nationalist and british nationalist.
74

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 30/06/2009 09:02:19
84 karin

However, a Unionist cannot be a patriot to anything other than the UK.
75

Queen D,

30/06/2009 10:52:39
I expect to see Mr Murphy bedecked in saltires, festooned with lion rampants and wearing a " haw Jimmy " bunnet.

I also expect to see the usual " plant" at scottish question time from some Scottish Labour t *&&er ,

"It has come / came ( take your pick ,it depends on the t*&&er!)that the St Andrews flag is being used as a symbol for separatism by the SNP.
Does my "Honourable " Friend agree that far from being a symbol for separatism it is the flag of Scotland and belongs to all Scots ,not just those wishing to break up the UK?"

I seem to remember that there was a ban on the saltire at the Bejing Olympics , can anyone confirm this??
Something to do with UK duplicity over Tibet??
76

The Sprucer,

30/06/2009 17:41:42
I think we all generally agree that Labour are f*nnies.
77

donald,

glasgow 01/07/2009 06:56:26
#83.

Whit aboot their Cooncil bums?

 

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