Sun hasn't set on Trump's grand plan

1

Senga Jean,

Scotland 08/12/2007 01:26:13

The ordinary folk in Aberdeenshire want this project. They do not have the luxury of the incomers wealth and libdemonism to deny their children's future.

Report Unsuitable

2

Stitch That, Jimmy,

08/12/2007 01:37:38

In the current political environment, assume that your elected representatives are guilty until proved innocent.

Then you will begin to understand the otherwise inexplicable increases in the wealth of the said representatives after the application is given the go-ahead.

You read it here first.

Report Unsuitable

3

East Coast Chick,

08/12/2007 01:41:03

Let the best man win!

Report Unsuitable

4

Knightsbridge,

SW7 08/12/2007 01:47:52

Jimmy's got it stiched up. What? There's not enough golf courses and fake communities? Too much accessable land has been taken. Does Scotland really need any more cement? Me thinks not. If you want a fairly realistic idea of what will happen if you let this, and other similar "projects" continue there's a book called "Villa Appalling! Destroying the Myth of Affordable Community Living" by Vanitzian & Glassman that nail this subjectmatter like no other. The next step will to purchase up all the surrounding properties and change the Scotland we know and love. Here's a suggeestion to Trump (mind you, I have nothing against the guy, I actually like him, and truly admire him), but Trump should ponder this: Buy Central Park in New York and do what the hell you want with it but stay out of Scotland.

Report Unsuitable

5

Jeff,,

London 08/12/2007 01:54:26

The SNP should negotiate with Trump.

One Course with SNH having to stand over the construction and approve

300 homes max.

The course must be open to public play ie golf visitors can play not just private members/homeowners

Report Unsuitable

6

Legacy,

N.E. 08/12/2007 02:08:51

All the Eco's, Anti-Trumps, and Lib Demons will be frothing at the mouth when they wake up in the morning, with this new report from D.T.
It's all about Progress, a word that's an anathema to most of them.
The old well worn argument about how money from America is going to be the Ruination of the Nor'East, and Martin Ford is the Saviour of Scotland!
ZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzz!

Report Unsuitable

7

FrancesP,

08/12/2007 02:09:10

Trump says "I have received every environmental award there is".

REALLY? Every single one? So that includes the Civic Trust Partnership Award? The St Andrews Prize for the Environment? The Lincolnshire Environmental Award? The DEBI Greening Devon Award? The Cornwall & Isles of Scilly Sustainability Awards? The Durham County Council Environment Award? The International Tree Foundation Youth Award? The RSPB/CIWEM Living Wetlands Award? I must say, given the current circumstances, the last one stretches credibility just a bit.

"A lot of countries are really fighting windmills now..." Ah, that'll be the countries he's snapped up already, will it?

And he denies 'bullying'. What else would he call what he's done for the purposes of this very interview, ie. use highly-paid minions to dig up dirt on a local councillor who dared to vote the 'wrong' way and then use it to attack that person's integrity. The fact that what they managed to dig up is so unimpressive speaks volumes - I dare say they were hoping for a dead body or a gay lover or something.

Report Unsuitable

8

Bad Yin,

Pondering the Perils of Speculation 08/12/2007 02:09:11

I have nothing against the English. The incomers though seem to want to run things and show us Scots how it's done.

Huntly loon,

Aberdeenshire 08/12/2007 03:12:23

Martin Ford is my councillor. I know what I'm speaking about. He has put his own personal environmentalist agenda before every other consideration. I have come on to post at this time because it is through the night that all the garbage about this gets posted with no-one from Aberdeenshire up to rebut it. He was elected as a Libdem back in May although his ethis is Green. He is neither liberal or democratic. The punters at his local pub (to which he never frequents - so much out of touch is he with his electorate) would like to be rid of him as our councillor, by no stretch of the imagination could he be called our representative. He has been asked to speak to us all but he would rather talk to newspapers and radio stations than talk to those who elected him. The media never ask the real questions. He says he followed the procedures. Well, manipulated the procedures of the council. No-one ever asks him - "Did you seek the views of your electorate?" I would estimate that 90% of the population supports the project, most coucillors, all MSPs and all MPs as well as the overwhelming supporters of the SNP, Libdem, Conservative and Labour as well as those of no party. Martin Ford speaks for Martin Ford. We feel democracy has usurped by ecofascism and we have been treated abominably by the democratic process. Trump is the hero and Ford is the villain in this pantomime. Our MSP Alex Salmond. the First Minister is well aware of the our distress and called in the application. Trump is not the bully, Ford is the bully and we the electors of East Garioch are the victims in all this. we are probably more livid than Mr Trump now and I guess he knows that. That is why he is probably staying around longer than someone without patience would have done. I'm sure the powers that be read these posts anf the message gets through, but at the moment it feels like we're behind some iron curatain crying out to be heard. Thank you for reading this.

Report Unsuitable

15

Grimsby Hibee,

In the Dam 08/12/2007 03:20:31

Theres not enough golf courses, long live golf! Up yours all you 100 plus wannabes

Report Unsuitable

16

FrancesP,

08/12/2007 03:33:02

#14. "He was elected as a Libdem back in May although his ethis is Green". I think the operative phrase here is 'he was elected'.

"He...manipulated the procedures of the council." No he didn't, he followed them to the letter. Your definition of 'manipulation' seems to be 'not doing whatever the majority wants'. By that standard, governments have been 'manipulating' procedures for decades by abolishing the death penalty, signing up to the Common Fisheries Policy and reducing the age of consent for gay men. But in reality, this is how representative democracy works.

Report Unsuitable

17

Crawford, Bauld, Wardhaugh and Urquart.,

USA 08/12/2007 03:34:59

I wish Trump's supporters could visit some of the 'Dream Developments' in the States which were supposed to be the answer to the local economy's prayers, and then folded with the buyers in the development and the local community left holding the baby.
What is most interesting about this, is his much heralded plan to build a Trump Tower in Tampa has fallen flat as a pancake when he found opposition which meant his profits were not what he anticipated.
I said it in another blog, read his book, 'Trump, The Art of a Deal'.
He explains how he does things, and the Northern Ireland bluff comes to mind.
Funny how he is now going to stick to Aberdeenshire after one of his subsidiaries has no doubt made a large contribution to the SNP.

Report Unsuitable

18

lorren,

scotland & USA 08/12/2007 03:36:02

Huntly Loon

You have more support than you know. Hang in there.

Its time for the peoples wishes to prevail instead of the Boss Class. Its time

Report Unsuitable

19

Grimsby Hibee,

In the Dam 08/12/2007 03:37:51

#16 I thought democracy worked liked such.

1. You elect a government

2. Your prime minister (once the honeymoon period is gone) tells you that he is doing this for your benefit e.g. Iraq

Firstly, if they as Huntly Loon suggests the locals support the project, they must get organised, get active, and then win the day.

Report Unsuitable

27

Stanley Unwin,

Fit bit fits fit fit 08/12/2007 04:40:05

#26 line 1 'with' should read 'will' (of course), apopollylogies.

Report Unsuitable

28

lorren,

Scotland & USA 08/12/2007 04:47:12

Just keep on posting Huntly Loon .

Huntly loon,

Aberdeenshire 08/12/2007 05:14:49

And Scozzy what gives your opinions a legitimacy. You have not declared an interest in the affair. I am a resident, voter and council tax payer of Aberdeenshire. That sort of gives me an interest in the matter. Ford was only elected by PR. He would not have won by first past the post. There are three councillors respresenting the ward of East Garioch, all I thought had a right to a say and a vote. Only one was aloowed by the procedures the other 2 were silenced.

Report Unsuitable

35

Faye,

08/12/2007 05:17:09

#1 Speak only for yourself, no one has mandated you to speak on behalf of the people of Aberdeenshire.

#14 Huntly Loon. Are you a paid lackey? You seem to be unnaturally (sic) over zealous for this project. Are you a proposed contractor for the job?

Martin Ford and those councillors stood up to a non domicilled (for tax purposes) outsider who wants to develop an SSSI.

43

Huntly loon,

Aberdeenshire 08/12/2007 05:39:11

#40 Trump is having a golf academy as part of his project.
#41 I'm sure you will be able to make representations to you MSP regarding your views. I'm sure the whole of Scotland is in favour of the Project as it is supported by politicians of all 4 majors parties, though not the Greens. My MSP cannot make a comment as the matter is now in the hands of the groverment for consideration.

Report Unsuitable

44

Stanley Unwin,

with the other Inmates at HMP Keir Hardie House 08/12/2007 05:39:32

Edinburgh 08/12/2007 06:44:53

Oh! the possible rich rewards to the politician(s) who now say yes to Mr Trump! What could they possibly find in their xmas stocking this year? A shagpile toup?

If this goes ahead, Mr Trump will think he owns Scotchland, his fictional wealth will increase by several 10s of billions of dollars in Forbes.

Report Unsuitable

53

overton,

Balmedie 08/12/2007 07:09:54

It is not my intention to appear racist but I feel that it is only right that the electorate
in Aberdeenshire are made aware of the nationalities of the councillors who voted
against this proposal as well as the nationalities of the main players in the opposition group that is known as Sustainable Aberdeenshire:

Martin Ford Martian

Marcus Humphrey Martian

Debra Storr Martian

P. Johnston Martian

A. Ross Martian

G.Clark Martian

I.Tait Martian

Alan Campbell* Martian

Don** Martian

Dianne12 Martian

The Wee Radical that plays the accordion outside The Bon Accord Centre Martian

Mickey Foote Martian

*: Not in the vote but included for information.
**: President of Sustainable Aberdeenshire

I am sure that there is no coincidence here and feel that action should be taken to
control this infiltration of our Government Bodies.
For futher information regarding the mass immigration that seems to be taking
place in front of our eyes please refer to Wikipedia under ‘Roswell Incident’.
Hopefully this post has raised the level of a debate that seems to have deteriorated quite badly over the past week.

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/TrumpSupport/

Report Unsuitable

54

Richardinho,

08/12/2007 07:23:00

Another Country 08/12/2007 09:18:42

Fergus writes: At least I have an excuse, given differing time zones, but I suspect that ‘New SNP’ Trolls such as “Wendy – what an amusing moniker” (3.07am 8 Dec 2007) and ‘her’ ilk have no lives to speak of, that they have to sit up into the wee smal’ hours - night after night - bashing away trite “comment” on as many unrelated stories as possible.

Is there some sort of pissing contest that goes on amongst these types, to see who can spin the daftest yarn first?

Do they all have a wee handbook, giving theme tips on pithy witticisms – “MEIN BAMFF” perhaps?

Narrow nationalism, personal nastiness and ignorance posing as “comment” – should make us all worried.

My heart sinks when I read newspapers on-line and I see hundreds of “comments” – who have usually nothing more to say than to repeat the impotent bile from their cronies.

Anyone with remotely opposing views is berated – tarred and feathered with a “Unionist” brush!
“Nationalism” is being redefined in Scotland – intolerant, hate-fuelled, bigoted, craven and exclusive.

Scotland is in danger of sleep walking towards abyss where: misogyny; questioning a women’s right to chose; questioning measures to address homophobic bullying; openly buying political influence on issues from Golf courses to airbrushing re-regulation of buses from manifestos, is happening - here and now!

Pride in one’s country and the Saltire have been hijacked, in much the same way that the British National Party have done with the Union Jack!

Report Unsuitable

64

Dark Blue,

Aberdeensire 08/12/2007 09:23:39

#62 So 90% of working class folk are for it-is that the working class who can watch the other classes through the fences of the new town created by Mr.Trump.Trump International could have amended their plans or appealed but no they would rather say " we're off to N. Ireland in 30 days"Every other developer does that- that's bullying talk to me.

Report Unsuitable

65

hotdoc,

Montrose 08/12/2007 09:25:11

The proposal to put a golf course that will destroy one of the most beautiful and serene landscapes in the world should just be dismissed as ridiculous. A Unique few will profit and therefore will keep the pressure up for such ventures. We don't need any more golf courses with membership fees that will deny admission of the local community, even the wealthy ones. There will be division in the community based on the imbalance between the profits made by some in the provision of local services, and the prohibitive cost to others in rising house prices and rates that follows such schemes. Tax benefits??
I sincerely hope it does not get approved.

Report Unsuitable

66

Florenz,

San Francisco,CA..The City that sent Trump packing 08/12/2007 09:27:32

I am not a bully..maybe not..but he is a liar when he refers to environmental awards.
" I am not a bully" reminds me of Richard Nixon's, "I am not a crook".

Report Unsuitable

67

Richardinho,

08/12/2007 09:29:21

Yeah the working classes are in favour cause that'swhat they do; work.

Its all the retirees from down south who've managed to exploit the cheaper housing up here to outspend the locals who are against it since they don't want even richer people threatening their cosseted position.

Report Unsuitable

68

CKA,

Edinburgh 08/12/2007 09:30:45

re #38

The area is independantly designated an SSSI due to the shifting nature of the dunes and not due to its proximity to Forvie Sands NNR (though the systems are linked). This is a rare habitat as most of the dune systems in the UK have already been 'stabilised' which Trump bizzarely seems to be presenting as an environmental bonus when it will actually destroy the very habitat that is suppossed to be under protection. It is beside the point whether anyone ever visits it as the designation has been made to protect the habitat and not to provide somewhere for recreation.

If you'd like more information about the SSI look up Foveran Links at the SNH site link page:

http://gateway.snh.gov.uk/portal/page?_pageid=53,910284,5...

As i've said before on another post there must be areas of Aberdeenshire that are not protected but are just as suitable for a golf course / housing development.

Report Unsuitable

69

,

08/12/2007 09:31:31

Comment Removed By Administrator

Reason: Scotsman Import, Original comment id: 1212343, Article id was mapped to record!

70

Andy Gray,

Aberdeen 08/12/2007 09:36:05

I am appalled that a decision of this significance was left to a Council sub committee . There has been a cry for years to diversify the commercial base in Aberdeen area as it is currently heavily dependent on the Oil & Gas Industry. This development will help do that by attracting visitors into the area as well as help generate the demand for other leisure facilities that can be enjoyed by visitor and locals alike.

As a local entrepreneur who has spent over 25 years helping the build successful businesses and create employment in the area I firmly support this development.
I have yet to meet anyone in the area who is against it.

I urge the Scottish Executive to overturn this ridiculous deciion and give the go-ahead as soon as possible.

Report Unsuitable

71

Frank McGarveys wife,

in the 19th hole after trouncing Sir Sean 5&4 08/12/2007 09:38:47

Carlsberg don't do thick, self-important, corrupt Scottish politicians but if they did........... welcome to the SNP executive. Quite possibly the ugliest bunch of self-interested and inept regional administrations in the world

(sorry "Governments" in the world Alex you smug, incompetent tw*t)

Report Unsuitable

72

Andy H,

Cruden Bay, Aberdeenshire 08/12/2007 09:38:48

Once again our colonial cousins having been ranting their un-substantiated vitriol over night without having a clue about the area or the actual make up of the application.

Report Unsuitable

80

jack splat,

edinburgh 08/12/2007 09:54:09

i know that if the owner were to lose reason go insane that or was declared insane by himself and was still able to live on the land or be hospitalized and absent from the land they could not touch it even for a long time after his death naturally of course. they would be bankrupt trying to undo those knots trump included. just do not do the medication nor invite the social services or hospitals an GP's on to your land.

Report Unsuitable

81

THE DREADED SILVER CROC de la Ferme aux crocodiles,

Chateau Croc, Mont Revard, Haute Savoie, France 08/12/2007 09:54:28

By the way - that's some forelock! Wonder if it has ever been tugged?

Report Unsuitable

82

When new modules are constructed for St Fergus they have to be taken to Fraserburgh harbour by sea, then offloaded onto low loaders for transport.

Too damned expensive by far all because a 220 year old bridge is too narrow and cannot take more than 40 tonnes. It would only take £850k to build a new bridge but they cannot find the money. Yet they can throw away £800 Millions on the magic roundabout token trams system for Edinburgh.

With the downturn in fishing, many of the towns are suffering an exodus to the big cities. regeneration is badly needed and Trumps Golf complex is what is needed to kickstart the NE economy. We can rely on Oil and Gas for the next 40-50 years but what then?

This is why we need new investment now. If the Golf courses are built then the Roads will have to be dualled as far as Peterhead. Airport facilities upgraded, perhaps the long overdue lengthening of the runway for big passenger jets? better IT and telecommunications installed which will attract new inward investment and increase prosperity for all.

If Trump does build 1500 new houses then that will take great pressure off the

Report Unsuitable

92

Stephen101,

Let the people speak 08/12/2007 10:19:15

Thank you Huntly Loon for your comments. Your local knowledge and summation of our college lecturer friend is no more or less than I expected.

A sanctimonious little prat his ego pumped by his moment of fame. Probably time he went back to his model railways and getting out to do a bit of train spotting. (YES, those are his hobbies).

But beware the nutters who support this lecturer freak will be accusing you of all sorts. Dig in there. Stick with it mate. Mobilise the locals, get the go ahead and get Ford out of any position of influence. He is dangerous.

Report Unsuitable

93

Boy Wonder,

08/12/2007 10:20:30

Bullies always deny what they are. I expect no less.

Report Unsuitable

94

The Tin Man,

Over the Rainbow 08/12/2007 10:23:00

Wow! I thought this debate was about the fact that the trump organisation was unwilling to modify its development plans to address the planning commitee's concerns. Looks like a lot of people have been thoroughly spinned. What if the Scottish Executive ask for changes to the development plan?

Report Unsuitable

95

jack splat,

edinburgh 08/12/2007 10:24:46

100# you seem to have understood 59# so do you think he is a French Canadian because i knew a bloke from the Canadian special operations who used to say suckfess i think which in English translate as i suck ass.

Report Unsuitable

96

Baillie Guthrie,

Caithness 08/12/2007 10:24:51

I think Huntley Loon will get at least get a lifetime membership of the club and rub shoulders with 007 at the bar. Probably free drinks and first option on a condo or whatever. Did he just get off the phone from New York - it being evening there at that time. 5 hours ranting must be worth it. The only time I have seen such keenness is when:-

a) a man is holding a machine gun at you back
b) Your family are being held hostage
c) A great big lollipop is dangling
d) you have strong political beliefs

Whatever - not being personal there - only my experience over the past million years.

Although my telephone number was Northwaterbridge for many many years, I , and other well meaning sympathisers from all over the globe - the diaspora mainly, have been slagged off for not being from local and therefore 'not qualified'.

But many of the big decisions, for better or worse, affecting Aberdeen & District eg Oil & Fishing have been taken remotely and a lot of moaning has gone on about that.

But in this instance, when your elected councillors make a decision you go all bairney and do a Putin. You elected them.

I suppose there was the same hullabaloo when it was proposed that the beautiful banks of the Clyde was turned into a stone and steel jungle.

Nothing changes.

Report Unsuitable

97

jack splat,

edinburgh 08/12/2007 10:25:24

every said he good at his work

Report Unsuitable

98

jack splat,

edinburgh 08/12/2007 10:29:29

they understand the system very well it is an international code of conduct my family like most have a lot of free masons in it. its the money and nothing else.

Report Unsuitable

99

The Tin Man,

Over the Rainbow 08/12/2007 10:37:57

#99 Niall

Good post - I agree with a lot of your comments. The Scottish attitude of 'Aberdeenshire - where's that?', and the Aberdeenshire attitude of 'if we keep quiet, no-one will find out about us', has been going on for too long.

Report Unsuitable

100

Andy H,

Cruden Bay, Aberdeenshire 08/12/2007 10:39:02

#93

'I have shares on the Golden Gate Bridge for sale.."

Aberdeen 08/12/2007 11:13:04

jack splat

Edina 08/12/2007 11:17:15

#14 HUNTLY LOON

Give us a break Sir.............you seem to be against Ford as much because he disnae drink in your local (neither would I if they are all like you) and get berated by interest groups whenever he chooses to have a beer. As for being LibDem and Green with it..........well, that runs counter to my own views (and I have much sympathy for the project, with safeguards/amendments) but it's jst so much tosh to say that ANY politician is falling down on duty, as YOU drinkers in a solitary and possibly totally unrepresentative pub). Did you carry out a proper poll? .....or was it just you and the few other malcontents that are to be found draped in the corner of ANY bar, ANYWHERE, at ANYTIME....and how many of these "friends" can HONESTLY claim to have read the application, or have ANY understanding as to how and in what ways the application breached the local plan, and how many of you have been bleating to the council beforehand that the local plan was a bad thing??
As the seeming self-appointed spokesman for your drinking club, might I suggest that you lot check yourselves into The Betty Ford Clinic or similar rather than spout the anti-Ford bile you have...and without any serious evidence to back it up....FOOLS.
Oh, and before you berate ME on this one......I'm off furra beer within the hour...let's hope the company is a bit more circumspect than you bleating loud-mouths !!

Report Unsuitable

120

jack splat,

edinburgh 08/12/2007 11:17:32

well at least i do not need to change my undies.

Report Unsuitable

121

Richard Taylor,

Aberdeen 08/12/2007 11:18:07

Edinburgh & Glasgow get MORE THAN ENOUGH, at our expense.

Report Unsuitable

122

Richard Taylor,

Aberdeen 08/12/2007 11:20:11

jack splat

And the pish continues...

Report Unsuitable

123

Grumbleguts,

Aberdeen 08/12/2007 11:20:53

Martin Ford was happy enough to want to build a road through a SSSI three years ago when he wanted windmills built.
That was refused.
He's a hypocrite who cares nothing for Aberdeenshire.

The beach and dunes at Balmedie are dumps.
Before you go blathering on about the beauty of the place - go and see it!
I went after all the hoohah - it was hideous.

As for the housing only being for the wealthy - why not?
It's not Donald Trumps responsibility to provide cheap housing - that's the councils.

Report Unsuitable

124

jack splat,

edinburgh 08/12/2007 11:22:28

some people like being called names you know you too i am sure so whats yours

Report Unsuitable

125

Aleksi,

Aberdeenshire 08/12/2007 11:25:28

Clarry, I realise that you are just deliberately posting in an attempt to get a reaction out of people.
Or perhaps I just can't believe that you can seriously not understand the situation at all...

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/trumpoff/

From a Martian, tree hugging, bobbly jumpered hippy, eco- zealot, eco- freakozoid and all other silly names! Keep em coming!

Report Unsuitable

131

,

08/12/2007 11:34:18

Comment Removed By Administrator

Reason: Scotsman Import, Original comment id: 1212696, Article id was mapped to record!

132

BK,

Cyberspace 08/12/2007 11:36:20

"Trump said: "We are not bullying anybody. What is going on right now is that he [Mr Ford] is being bullied by his own voters "

Mr. Trump, in this country we call that democracy. Is a politician not elected to do the will of his own voters, and for no other reason? Unlike the USA where they obey, not those who elect them but who buy them. This statement is as good as reason as any to send Trump homeward to think again.

Report Unsuitable

133

jack splat,

edinburgh 08/12/2007 11:36:52

when you refer to yourself as a martian is that anal

Report Unsuitable

134

camster,

Glasgow 08/12/2007 11:38:58

I guess any chance of the SNP getting into an alliance with the Lib Dems is now fully dead. Reading between the lines it appears that the SNP have decided to try and destroy the Lib Dems power base in the North East and they are manipulating this issue to help them. Many years ago my father was a Lib Dem councillor in Aberdeen and I spent my school years delivering leaflets and knocking up voters. The Lib Dems are more in touch with local voters than any of the other parties. So take the statements from Huntly Loon et al with the pinch of salt they deserve.

Report Unsuitable

135

Transparent?,

Scotland 08/12/2007 11:39:57

From the first paragraph:

"... Donald Trump last night rejected accusations that he was a bully as he gave the clearest signal yet that he is prepared to be patient and wait for the decision of the Scottish Government..."

I have the following comments:

1) A democratic decision has already been made and because of that, Trump has already shown no patience.

2) How much funding has Trump promised Salmond for the SNP to intervene and turn around that previous decision.

3) There is no guarantee that anyone else but Trump and Salmond will benefit from this project - just plenty promises!

08/12/2007 12:31:02

"We are not bullying anybody. What is going on right now is that he [Mr Ford] is being bullied by his own voters but he is too self-righteous and caught up in himself to even see it.

Erm, that's their job, although most councillors/MPs seem to have forgotten that.

Report Unsuitable

160

petermac,

Aberdeen 08/12/2007 12:38:32

Posting this question again as I am not sure I got in last time....

If Abdnshire Committee have determined the application by refusing it how can the Sc Ministers make a decision after the fact?

I thought applications were called in before they were determined..ie decided.

Report Unsuitable

161

frankieP,

167

petermac,

Aberdeen 08/12/2007 13:02:25

Huntly loon..thanx for that...but the situation is no clearer....what is the time limit fo calling in?where is it written?

Surely the cut off point is the pronouncement of a determination/decision which was before the call in although I am certain the letter giving reasons for refusal has not been issued and will not be now.

A decision must be intimated in writing but that is exactly whayt it is ,an intimation.The decision was made vernbally in front og many witnesses.

I am simply curious.No one I have spoken with has been able to categorically and logically answer this issue convincingly.

Is it the case that the call in is flawed..too late but everone in the know is keeping quiet..or is it the case that this is a novel situation and everyone has their eyes of the ball and so the question has not been asked.

We need an answer before the Sc Ministers proceed just in case there is a challenge at the end of the procedure which succeeds and huffs Trump so much that he is offski.

Report Unsuitable

168

The Strategist,

08/12/2007 13:10:13

#181 Clarrie

It's always a good idea to read posts before commenting. Nowhere did I suggest I'm opposed to to Trump's plan just that it shouldn't be promoted as the saviour of the Aberdeen economy because it it isn't.

However, if I was asked to make a decision - i.e. if it came before our community council.. I'd vote in favour.

All that said, when it comes to sport I'd much rather have a motor racing circuit :-)

Report Unsuitable

Aberdeen 08/12/2007 13:31:03

Huntly loon keep up the good work.

A question -is it possible to establish if Ford had anything to do with the Wind Turbines at the Glens of Foundland - another blot on the landscape.

Donald Trump does not realize how much he has already done for the people of the NE. For too long a few elitist people with time on their hands have dictated what we can and cannot have. Its a different ball game now the natives have at last shown some backbone.

Report Unsuitable

173

HMFC,

08/12/2007 13:34:18

197 # Whose's RICKY HATTON!!!

You may not have been long in the UK.

FYI - He is a decent individual who is good at what he does.

Thats winning a fight.

Unlike fat cat trump and the militant lefty councillors of aberdeenshire ..;.

THERES ONLY ONE RICKY HATTON!

Report Unsuitable

174

Huntly loon,

Aberdeenshire 08/12/2007 13:35:51

#196 I agreed entirely with your comment back at #177 and said so at #182.
The reason why the Trump project is different from others is that it has the capability to bring much further tourism to the ecomomy which will be top end of the market. We can all put on a back pack and do youth hostels in the Cairngorms, but it it not going to bring much to the wider economy. The Menie site will more than likely result in the upgrade of the infrastructure of that area. The AWPR will become necessary and hopefully the northern end will be set in motion from Balmedie, down past Parkhill, on over the Don past the sirport and down to the A96.

It will sort out the bottleneck at the Don bridge at Dyce., which is ridiculous; 3 roads merging into 1 crossing the Don on a standard A class road only to split into the Kintore, Banff and Balmedie roads, with no roundabout at the Aberdeenshire end, with those trying to turn right to Balmedie holding up the traffic behind them.

But there was no expense spared on the raising of the Parkhill bridge carrying a cycle path on the track of the old railway line. Now we realise why that project was fell funded. It was very convenient for Councillor Ford to have his personal route to Aberdeen.

Report Unsuitable

175

frankieP,

Woodside Aberdeen 08/12/2007 13:38:17

Clary,
I think I said it appears to be 'mostly' outsiders who appreciate the pricelessness of the area. Many locals do, but you are obviously one of the majority who do not, as you support its destruction - and I mean destruction as the consolidation of the moving dunes will destroy the unique habitat of the local flora and fauna and effect the whole area. I guess you don't understand how interrelated the whole ecosystem is. You also do not understand the concept of pricelessness. However I believe you reinforce my point of local closed mindedness. You also take the rather unfortunate backward attitude of sneering at individuals who recognise and nurture the environment. I will avoid reading your nasty comments in future. They are not worth my time.

Report Unsuitable

176

Creativelady,

Edinburgh (ex Buchan) 08/12/2007 13:38:30

As usual - fantastic comments made by one and all. The increasing interest in this "proposal" leads me to thinking that you need an open debate about both this proposal and any other plans for the area.

Pros and cons could be laid out and debated. With the overall aim of taking Scotland forward. If the planned development goes ahead there must be plenty of safeguards included so that ONLY those "agreed" plans are built. We do not want my favorite bit of rural Scotland ruined because somebody didn't ask important questions..

Aberdeen 08/12/2007 13:55:40

211

Agree to disagree on that one although I concede they are less visible than most and its good to hear that local communities get benefit from them.

Report Unsuitable

183

Andy H,

Cruden Bay, Aberdeenshire 08/12/2007 13:55:47

Aberdeenshire 08/12/2007 14:10:45

There is nothing wrong with outsiders, who come in and be part of a community and fit into what is already there. The problem arises when they come in disparage the culture and attitudes of the indigenous population and want them to do all the changing.

Report Unsuitable

189

Caora Dubh,

Wicked Witch o' the West 08/12/2007 14:12:24

For over two years I walked across a golf course daily, to and from work. My route took me past an area used by the maintenance staff. I was shocked by the huge quantities of fertilisers, herbicides, and pesticides used to keep the golf course in shape: huge vats of the stuff. On one side of the golf course was a mature wood. The wild flowers, small animals, and birds stopped abruptly at the edge of the golf course, a lurid luminous, green monoculture. Moles of course, were exterminated.

Aberdonians: Do you want nitrates, phosphates, herbicide and pesticide residues washed into your sea? Do you want shell fish, fish, mud and sand worms, birds, and small mammals to suffer?

Maintenance of golf courses is very highly automated. Golf courses are ten-a-penny. A handful of people will be employed and Donald Trump Inc. will repatriate the profit. Think.

Report Unsuitable

190

Caora Dubh,

Wicked Witch o' the West 08/12/2007 14:18:48

Instead, I suggest that Donald Trump buys two decommissioned oil rigs, and converts one into a museum of the oil industry, and the other into a conference venue with accommodation. I suggest that they are moored in suitable firths or even not too far offshore from Aberdeen. Donald Trump should also sell an all-in "oil rig experience" to tourists. Of course the oil rigs will need to be "safed" for tourists and conference delegates.

Secondly, I suggest that Donald Trump buys enough land to create a real refuge for the largest mammals, such as reindeer, bears, and wolves, and erects and "elephant-proof" fence around the park. After these animals are reintroduced to Scotland, he will discover that tourists will flock to see them.

Report Unsuitable

191

celticsnowdrop,

08/12/2007 14:21:17

Caora Dubh......I totally agree with you and what really gets me down is greedy people who cannot see further than their noses when it comes to the earth we leave to our children and grandchildren........I wonder if they saw the future and what will happen to the generations to come would they be so quick to welcome contamination into their homes..................och it will be a case of .......we can,t see it so......therefore it does not exist

Report Unsuitable

192

davexmachina,

aberdeen 08/12/2007 14:24:00

re 220

Unfortunately Aberdeen and the surrounding area has found out to its' cost before just what many 'incomers' attitudes are. To a great extent many are here as economic migrants to benefit from the oil, and as soon as the barrel price bottoms out again (as it has done before) then many will up sticks and off to pastures new.

I personally have no problems with that, but greatly object to having to live on in a financial and social landscape which has been modified by some of the incomers/outgoers warped views on what is right for the area.

For those who stay and contribute to the area - great! Lets hear your views and your input. Just let's not have reactionary views from a section of the population that may, or may not, stick around for as long as the oil barrel price is sky-high.

North-east people still have to live here, you know!

Report Unsuitable

193

Caora Dubh,

Wicked Witch o' the West 08/12/2007 14:24:11

Dinald Trump should also seriously consider operating a tourist submarine service inside Scapa Flow, to view the sunken ships. Scapa Flow is redolent with history, and a fascinating commentary could be given. Tourist submarine services operate elsewhere, with submarines carefully designed for shallow depths only, with large viewing windows.

Report Unsuitable

194

Marlon Brando,

Glasgow 08/12/2007 14:26:49

I'm not surprised that most of the Aberdonian neanderthals who want Trumpville on Sea also hate natural environments like sand dunes but like useless,ugly wind farms.
What is it about concrete and steel that you find preferable to grass ,sand, trees and heather ?

Oh yes...money !

It's sad that it takes outsiders to appreciate the natural environment but many locals just see the land as a useless commodity to be sold to the highest bidder.

May I remind you that it's not Your land to prostitute in this way. The land belongs to EVERYONE in Scotland not just a few thousand short sighted greedy dimwits in the N/E !

Report Unsuitable

195

Gogzy,

08/12/2007 14:27:49

and trumps not in this to make money?

so whys he wanting to build a course with houses in ireland aswell.

i rest my case

Report Unsuitable

196

JR Ewing,

Aberdeen 08/12/2007 14:27:56

Less of the xenophobia nonsense were are not talking about ordinary people whatever race, colour or creed.
Its elitism, the people who believe we have to be saved from ourselves. The ones, who because we do not exhibit due deference to their pseudo environmentalist credentials our views are of no consequence.

Report Unsuitable

197

Huntly loon,

Aberdeenshire 08/12/2007 14:28:56

There is a place for wolves and other large animals in Scotland. I think there are projects in remote parts of the Highlands to introduce species which had once existed and protect existing endangered species. Menie is not the appropriate place for that. A links golf course development is. The largest part of the site at Menie is simply agricultural land. At the present time much of that can become a monoculture.

Once again the greater picture is obscured by the monoculture of the environmentalist's arguments.

Report Unsuitable

198

Andy H,

Cruden Bay, Aberdeenshire 08/12/2007 14:31:39

#225

A sensible argument point at last.

Indeed this is something I was initially concerned about but after some investigation, the very fact that this is a links course and generally left to its own devices, very little maintenance "spraying" is needed.

Unfortunately there is a need for a large one off spray to establish things, but looking at other similar courses - St Andrews, Turnberry etc the on-ging quantities are quite low wand focus only on the greens

Report Unsuitable

199

Proper Job,

08/12/2007 14:32:59

#9 excolintonmains

You know he's a tosser when the only way he can make a 'mark' is to resort to idiotic punctuation. What a bore.

Report Unsuitable

200

Blue Tooner,

08/12/2007 14:33:50

201 "They (Tree Hugging Sasanachs) want economic stability in the south but we are to stagnate economic development in the north so that it looks pretty when they visit their holiday home."

So the answer to your problem is to build more holiday homes? Don't get your point Jock, isn't the whole project based on time-share properties and very large holiday homes? Some of them might even be bought by Sasanachs. Come on man, We're a' Jock Tamson's bairns.

While I'm here, must say sorry to 220 on behalf of the non-xenophobic North Easterners.

Report Unsuitable

201

celticsnowdrop,

08/12/2007 14:37:58

trump will leave scotland as he does his women.......used and abused oh!!!!!! and penniless......what in the hell do people see in this man, I have seen better animals get put down for less mind you.....the dog did sh*t in the garden and donald has the decency to use waste ground....... and pay for the privilage and good money if you dont mind bringing the sh*t into your home..............this case stinks and needs to be sorted with decent law abiding citizens..........forgot the brown envelopes have already been posted.....mind you going by the track record it will be about march before they are delivered

Report Unsuitable

202

davexmachina,

aberdeen 08/12/2007 14:38:18

re 230

Well, Mr Brando, and the last time you walked on the Sands of Menie or Sands of Forvie was ......?

This is the exact point I was making in my earlier post....

Report Unsuitable

203

The Strategist,

08/12/2007 14:42:00

#211 Huntly Loon

Yep - about £25k went into a wide range of projects within the Glens of Foudland "catchment" area this year. The Trust set up to disperse the funds has had a large number of very different applications and it's also done things such as buy renewable energy kits for primary schools to experiment with.

Report Unsuitable

204

Caora Dubh,

Wicked Witch o' the West 08/12/2007 14:45:15

Furthermore I want Alba/Scotland to develop long kayak routes along its lochs, with youth hostel-type accommodation at overnight stops. Annual races along these routes should also be organised. For example: Laxford Bridge to the Dornoch Firth, and a wonderful circular route right around Kingairloch, Ardgour and Morvern that can start and finish at Fort William. Given modest investment, Scotland could become the world's premier kayaking destination.

I would also like the reputed site of the Mons Graupius battlefield near Inverurie to be better frequented. Both the hill fort above the battlefield and the beautiful tranquil nature reserve nearby are worthwhile visiting. It was the most northerly penetration of the Romans in the British Isles, yet there are no guides or plaques.

Report Unsuitable

205

08/12/2007 14:54:03

HUNTLY LOON ( I do not need to be lectured on the environment by those who are merely passing through. Aberdeenshire's landscape and heritage is the product of its history and the work of our ancestors who have gone before us.)

I wonder if it was the depth of thought by our ancesters that left us this beautiful scotland.....take a good look at what you will leave your future generations..........A GOLF COURSE AND A HOUSING SCHEME
.

Report Unsuitable

209

davexmachina,

aberdeen 08/12/2007 14:54:49

Report Unsuitable

215

Dark Blue,

Aberdeenshire 08/12/2007 15:09:59

When asked at the public meeting" If the housing is refused, will the golf course and hotel still be built" Trump's man said no.

also --All this rubish about incomers with green agendas--the 2 SNP councillors, who voted to knock back Mr. Trump, are both from the east coast of Scotland ,if it matters

Report Unsuitable

216

Huntly loon,

Aberdeenshire 08/12/2007 15:11:29

#249 There is always a happy medium and balance in all decisions. I feel that the environmentalist fought the wrong battle on the Menie project. All they have done is stir up the natives into questioning all ecological impingements in their lives.
Had it been a nuclear waste disposal site or a power station or a knackery incinerator that was proposed, they probably would have carried the general population with them. However, by objecting to that was free investment in golf courses and a large hotel, and upmarket housing, they have only made it difficult in the future to persuade reasonable opinion to support them on far more invidious developments.

Report Unsuitable

217

Dark Blue,

Aberdeenshire 08/12/2007 15:19:25

Huntly Loon" There is always a happy medium and balance in all decisions"
That is what the 7 councillors wanted "a happy medium"-build your golf course and complex, but do not destroy the SSSI.

Report Unsuitable

218

Huntly loon,

Aberdeenshire 08/12/2007 15:25:08

I don't know anything about the 2 SNP councillors who voted against the project but I guess they are out of touch with the view of their constituents. Did they consult with them, inform them of their attitude to the project or were they simply too inexperienced in dealing with the decision? What is surprising is that there seems to have been so many councillors from SNP, Libdem and Conservative who have failed to misjudge the mood of those who elected them on this. Perhaps it will be a wake-up call to all councillors that they need to keep better in touch with the views of their voters and seek these out and not merely rely on the most vociferous of us to keep them informed.

Report Unsuitable

219

Animal charity,

Skye 08/12/2007 15:25:14

The fact that our charity couldn't go ahead with our offer on adjoining land to the Menie estate, as we would have not been granted planning permission for 4-8 chalets, WITH an agricultural tie, FOR therapeutic purposes in providing care in a peaceful environment for autistic children and those with terminal diseases including cancer, among rescue animals with an emergency doctor on site, speaks volumes about priorities.

There is insufficient care in Scotland for these groups identified as being in need.

We are now based on Skye, where we have 60+ animals, and offer work experience for volunteers, employment for locals and others and a library and visits with the animals for the local community and visitors. We are not a 'gated community' everyone is welcome to share in what we have. We recently had to turn away a cancer sufferer and her animals, despite a call from the Skye and Lochalsh council begging us to take them in as they had no suitable accommodation, because we don't have the facilities. Stress has been identified as a primary cause of the worsening of cancer and we were very sorry we were not able to help her.

One of the directors has to drive for three hours across the Highlands to work as an emergency doctor, where he is the one on call in case of car crashes, diabetic comas etc.

We have had no help from any Scottish organization to help us in our objectives in finding suitable land so we can better serve the people of Scotland. We are part of the market system and planning laws, and have no special consideration.

I'm very disappointed indeed that we had to pull out of our offer at Balmedie, as we were told there was ABSOLUTELY NO CHANCE of planning permission of detached chalets for therapeutic purposes.

Why one law for Trump and another for the rest of Scotland?

Report Unsuitable

220

Huntly loon,

Aberdeenshire 08/12/2007 15:26:21

I meant to say 'judge' rather than 'misjudge' above

Report Unsuitable

221

Martin Ford is My Hero,

08/12/2007 15:27:58

Huntly loon,

I also had a gt gt gt grandfather who lived in the Cabrach . . . records show that my family lived in the area for hundreds of years before my grandmother moved away from Huntly in the 1920s to work in Kent. My wife grew up in Aberdeen, so has my daughter, but my son was born in Oxford and I too am *ugh spit* English. Therefore I should sit down and know my place. If that isn't prejudice, then what is?

Aberdeenshire 08/12/2007 16:00:42

I can't see what the obsession with being local is...whats with some of you guys? The area is designated as being of national importance.
Also where does the assumption that only well off people complain about it come from???
I thought Trump and his clients were the well off ones here??
Anyway I was pleased to see that the population in Scotland is falling... this means we will not need all these part time low paid jobs after all! ;-)

Report Unsuitable

231

Ciderman 542000,

Forres 08/12/2007 16:05:31

Typical fascist, central power mad and money driven SNP. How much has Trump promised to donate to the SNP to get this decision?

Report Unsuitable

232

Creativelady,

Edinburgh (ex Buchan) 08/12/2007 16:09:36

Keep going everybody! Chin up, the people of Aberdeenshire deserve the very best. Time to take a fresh look at way forward. Local debate, local discussion and most important of all "Treat people with respect" - at all levels.

Belmedie area like that whole coastline, beautiful - is this the right development? What else/other industries can be considered? New education, university establishment? Let's build a stronger Scotland, recognising the true potential of her people. Many who, in the past, have had to move away to find jobs. Listen to the people and all of the comments made above.

Thanks The Scotsman for giving us the opportunity to "bounce" ideas on-line..

Report Unsuitable

233

Frank McGarveys wife,

08/12/2007 16:12:40

Something fishy going on in a posh New York eaterie about 3 months ago

Donald: Some more caviar Alex

Alex: Yes please, I'm quite partial to Sturgeon's eggs.

Donald: you sick ****, now about those negatives...

Report Unsuitable

234

McMillar,

Fife 08/12/2007 16:31:24

Well said #268. Don’t always agree with the Scotsman’s headlines but fully appreciate the site they have set up here to allowing readers to post comments. Good effort and certainly provides a lot of entertainment!

This reminds me of the old joke…Man is driving home and gets a call from his wife to say ‘be careful on the roads dear, I’ve just heard a report on the radio saying there’s a madman driving the wrong way on the motorway and police have been called to catch him’ He shouts back ‘They’d better hurry up there’s not just one, I’ve passed hundreds of them going the wrong way!’

Sounds like Ford to me and I’m amazed anyone would question the level of local support. Having just returned from another weekend up around Banffshire I’ve yet to talk to anyone who is not in favour of this. The talk needs to be more about regeneration and development. Huntly Loon makes a lot of sense in his comments and clearly has an even better local view of the situation.

Report Unsuitable

235

Ralph Smith,

Victoria BC Canada 08/12/2007 16:40:16

As a Sassanach I greatly admire you Scots and especially the local farmer for resisting Donald Trump's blandishments. He's not often refused anything and believes that his religion of hard cash can buy anybody. Stick to your guns and see this intruder off! It's not what his development will bring but what will follow in its wake!

Report Unsuitable

236

Hotel Yorba,

Glesga 08/12/2007 16:45:58

The Golf course is a red herring, its the building of luxury apps that is the money spinner. Job wise, it should be good for Polands unemployed, me think the jobs will not go to local folk anyway.

Report Unsuitable

237

JR Ewing,

Aberdeen 08/12/2007 16:47:06

This racism nonsense is getting out of hand. This debate has nothing to do with the origin of a person it has all to do with attitude. I don't care where Ford came from its his elitism and that of many of supporters that bugs me.

I hold a scot David Kerr in similar contempt. A Professor who along with some of his Strathclyde Uni/GGHB buddies tried to have the Neuro unit at the ARI closed. They made the same mistake of believing that they knew what was best for us.

Report Unsuitable

238

Canada moose,

Ontario Canada 08/12/2007 16:47:33

Mr Trump is a wolf dressed in sheep's clothing....As an ex-pat from Edinburgh now residing in Canada I have seen first hand what this wolf can do!
There is an old Scottish saying Ken yer ayne..........
Well trust me I would not Scorn or harm my own.
For Mr.Trump lets make one thing clear we Scots, already have the greatest golf course in the world! here is a wee hint it's in St.Andrews.........How dare you insult this nation's intelligence with this Disney land offer..........For all your money Mr.Trump you still have been unable to procure CLASS.........If any engineer,Town Planner, or official wishes to find out what this wolf really represents contact the Iron worker's Union here in Canada and the USA......or respond to this email and I will provide you with the information you require............Let me state this is clearly as a Scot, we Stand up for the truth,and my good father instilled in his children integrity this is the only reason I warn my OWN of the wolf in the mist...........Canada Moose.

Report Unsuitable

239

Jammyhorse,

Not far from the Dunes 08/12/2007 16:52:57

We're fed up of reports saying local opinion is for Mr Trumps plan.

NO WE ARE NOT!

and so are 99% of our friends and neighbours.

Leave the dynamic dunes alone and go buy a better wig.

If this plan is passed by the Edinburgh lot, then shame on all of you money grabbing politicians, who'll no doubt enjoy a reduced fee membership of this white elephant, at the expense of a beautiful piece of nature.
If it is passed, we guarantee you, we'll continue to walk our dogs and ride our horses over your greens. Let's hope it suffers the same fate as Starny Keppie in 1720!!

Mr Trump- why don't you build it in Gantanamo Bay? The weather is much kinder there and there's already a club house for you and your (potentially) sell out Scottish political mates.

Report Unsuitable

240

Frank McGarveys wife,

08/12/2007 16:55:20

A manky flea infested Subway sandwich bar in Govan, a month later.

Donald: Yes, Nicola, my two great love are golf and Salmond fishing, especially when I can combine the two.

Nicola: Huv yoo evur fried any o'ver soarts of fishin?

Donald: I landed a big ugly mullet one time..

Nicola: Flattery will get you everywhere you charmer, now where did you say I needed to sign?

Report Unsuitable

241

Huntly loon,

Aberdeenshire 08/12/2007 17:13:50

Another point I would like to make, which seems to have gone completely over the head of the councillors.

How much would the Trump development have produced in Non Domestic Rates for the authority?

How much do the dunes currently provide?

How much would the existing facilities such as Haddo Country Park, Aden Country Park and Forvie Sands have gained from the potential increased finance, which might have paid for more countryside rangers and environmental protection.

I'm sure there would have been VAT and other taxes for the national treasury.

And how much financial spin off might there have been that allowed the National Trust for Scotland and Historic Scotland to keep their properties open for longer on more days and a much longer season. This is not about destroying dunes it is about facilitating and protecting what was even better.

Report Unsuitable

242

Dyslexic,

Aberdeen 08/12/2007 17:14:59

So letxs keep votin - to support Mr Trumps proposal http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/TrumpSupport/

Report Unsuitable

243

okanaganguy,

kelowna b.c. canada 08/12/2007 17:31:03

#100. Jennifer: As i said in my previous post "It was an observation". If you take the time to read all the posts in here, there are many references to the "classes". I stand by what i said earlier. Also, have a look at #99 post. Naill makes some very good points. An excellent post. regards

Report Unsuitable

244

Susan Caroline Periano,

Pottstown,PA USA 08/12/2007 17:31:22

It's ironic that environmentalists are the concerned parties. Building 1,500 homes over the span of 1,400 acres = 1 home per one thousand acres. How can that be detrimental to the environment? And is man not master over animals and land? This sounds like unfair play on the part of Mr. Ford. Scotland needs a financial boost and Mr. Trump is environmentally sensitive and caring towards people. His building track record is impeccable which is his talented gift from God. Let all personal feelings be placed aside and common sense prevail in allowing this venture to go forward. The people of Scotland will benefit by an economic lift and the dunes nor the wildlife will suffer.

Report Unsuitable

245

dianne12,

Aberdeenshire 08/12/2007 17:42:31

So let's keep voting, to protect our land and control our own destiny.

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/trumpoff/

Report Unsuitable

246

okanaganguy,

kelowna b.c. canada 08/12/2007 17:46:49

Jack splat. did you just move to Edinburgh?. i think that some where in Scotland, some small village is happy that their "village idiot" is missing. regards

Report Unsuitable

247

Blue Tooner,

Aberdeenshire 08/12/2007 17:58:48

17 "I wish Trump's supporters could visit some of the 'Dream Developments' in the States which were supposed to be the answer to the local economy's prayers, and then folded with the buyers in the development and the local community left holding the baby."

280 "Mr. Trump is environmentally sensitive and caring towards people. His building track record is impeccable which is his talented gift from God."

Decision time!

Report Unsuitable

248

Bad Yin,

In Catharsis! 08/12/2007 18:05:33

Yer a bunch ae tumchies the lot ae ye. Ford (aye an Englishman) voted tae dae nae harm tae Scotland. And he's vilified fur it. Shame.

Report Unsuitable

249

overton,

balmedie 08/12/2007 18:07:51

Debra Storr and Dianne12:

balmedie 08/12/2007 18:41:22

283
Don't insult our natives. You should have more manners. Some people do have a problem.

Especiallly Ford Storr & Co

Report Unsuitable

256

Blue Tooner,

Aberdeenshire 08/12/2007 18:43:13

290 "Plenty water here mate - don't you worry about us."

Like the tennis player said, "You Cannot Be Serious!?"
Must be a wind up?

Report Unsuitable

257

"Scotty",

usa 08/12/2007 18:44:32

Absolutely right, Number 29. I've heard the new First Minister is "in bed" as the saying goes with Trump. It's only for the super, super rich so why not build his course in New York State. People like Trump are bullies; that's why they get where they are. It's all downhill from here with the First minister in his pocket. Once it is built, thousands of those jobs will simply disappear.

Report Unsuitable

258

RTS,

Washington State, US 08/12/2007 18:56:20

Beware the promise of "tens of millions of pounds in benefit to the local economy". This is a flashy selling point but, if the US is any example, the results are usually low-wage service jobs and the inability of local residents to continue to afford to live in their own communities.

Report Unsuitable

259

JR Ewing,

Aberdeen 08/12/2007 19:17:30

291

Condescending drivel how can you square your post at 264 with such a pompous attack on a persons beliefs.
Using Europe - Glasgow even to preach is ludicrous.
Still riven with religious hatred and run by a labour mafia many who have been supping out of the property developers pot for years

Report Unsuitable

260

Astarte,

Giffnock 08/12/2007 19:31:29

Andy H and Clarry, two fellow Scots, appear to be the aggressive proponents' of the Trump proposal and wax naive'te in the process. Be assured
before staging your argument that US laws, albeit Federal or State, are laxing omit in the sale of Real Estate for land development. Not the case! Contrary to the defence you offer on the rigid delivery of local force Mr Trump would, and has on many occasions, encounter stress hold on his attempts to sway under US Law and the omission on land-hold agreement in the UK (there is no division or exclusion in Scotland) will make it much easier to raise his development here. I suspect that Mr Trump's legal team brought this to the attention of Mr Salmond, hence his rush to intervene. The only question that I would pose on Mr Trump is to show in a "desent-decree" how he proposes to raise one billion pounds while he is in flight of bankruptcy violations in the US and Canada. The answer of course is that he has Briitish or European backers and it only takes two Lords to affirm action. Scottish Law still allows the poor to remain in their sordid state while wealth rotates with wealth.

Report Unsuitable

261

Andrew BOD,

Aberdeen 08/12/2007 19:45:42

298

"Scottish Law still allows the poor to remain in their sordid state while wealth rotates with wealth."

If this is the conclusion of your long paragraph on the Trump development, I think you're on the wrong blog.

Report Unsuitable

262

IanfaeClerrie,

Somewhere in the Borders 08/12/2007 19:50:14

as someone who has lived in NJ and worked in NYC for 10 years, everything about Trump is low rent. This would change the place forever, the structures put up would be the cheapest possible, the local economy would not benefit because the contractors would be the big conglomerates and the low-income jobs would attract incomers who would be looking for the lowest-price accommodation.

Everything about this man is smoke and mirrors and the local community should avoid him at all costs.

Report Unsuitable

263

okanaganguy,

kelowna b.c. canada 08/12/2007 19:56:32

293 overton. I refer you to your natives post at #106. Are these the manners of which you speak? I will agree with you though in that He does have a problem. regards

Report Unsuitable

264

Huntly loon,

Aberdeenshire 08/12/2007 20:01:22

The Scottish Government were correct to call this application in. These posts have often tended to generate more heat than light and many local voices have attempted shine light on this debate.

What this really boils down to is whether Aberdeenshire Council's procedures were robust enough to take a balanced overview of all aspects of the application, and to ensure that the wishes of those who elected them into power and who foot the bills, is given effect to. That is the overriding consideration for councillors to take.

When, as seems to be the position that, something like 90% of the population wished this project to proceed, it ill behoves the council to so patently fail to give to the people what they seek.

This failure of democracy has now been passed to the Scottish Government to rectify.

This is not about golf courses, rich Americans, sand dunes or individual councillors. It is about democracy- and it is our resolve that we the inhabitants of Aberdeenshire shall once more enjoy, what was hard fought for to achieve, government of the people, by the people, for the people.

Report Unsuitable

265

Huntly loon,

Aberdeenshire 08/12/2007 20:13:21

One thing that the environmentalists appear to have overlooked is the beautiful view of Menie sands juxtaposed with the heading, 'Sun hasn't set on Trump's grand plan.'

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 08/12/2007 22:28:11

308, Andrew BOD. So what is the click value per click on these stories?

Report Unsuitable

272

Andrew BOD,

Aberdeen 08/12/2007 22:54:41

Hi Jock

Long term economic value. Just like the Trump Development.

If it writes contentious articles about subjects which are close to peoples' hearts, then it gets talked about, and people actually buy it.

And don't underestimate the click value either. There's subtle marketing everywhere.

Report Unsuitable

273

Andrew BOD,

Aberdeen 08/12/2007 22:57:20

Look, 308 and it's Herald link has been removed by the competition.

It's got real click value.

Report Unsuitable

274

Resolutions,

08/12/2007 23:03:20

Huntly Loon (among others) - You seem mighty 'up' in what you consider to be the views of the majority. Have you got proof that this is the case? I am asking because I have not yet met one person from the area concerned and from the areas out and about who do not exist in isolation, who feels that this plan is right for the area. Let's understand that this will affect the whole of the NE and not just the area near by. An area which has always evolved and responded to conditions and a landscape which has evolved because of the work our predecessors put into it and which todays folk will pass on in the fullness of time.
However, this whole sorry process could've been dealt with without the hysteria, if the planning process, which is the same for everyone, had maintained that this area was UNSUITABLE for housing development, which it is. It could also have been dealt with without the hype if Trump had been prepared to work with SNH etc as to how best to 'marry' the golf course development with the presevation and management of the SSI. He has come across as throwing temper tantrums like a spoilt child because he is not getting his own way.
It is claimed that this course will attract 'Big Competitions'. With the circuit of brilliant golf courses, how often does that come around and have any of his other 'developments' attracted 'Big Competitions'? Could you direct us to reports of these please?
What I have found out so far, from his activities over the pond, that the'developments' are not exactly of the top class establishments you are portraying, but research continues.....
I would also like to see a breakdown of the jobs which are to be created -viz What type they are and the career prospects/development of and where they are to be housed and who provides this housing. What sort of infrastructure is required? How they intend to cope with a rising water table as a result of global warming ( or if you prefer a climate wobble as gale warnings etc

Report Unsuitable

275

Alexander the Scot,

Michigan U.S.A. 08/12/2007 23:07:53

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

I have looked at most of the posts on this thread and they are very good indeed, well thought out, both pro and con. However they don't amount to a hill of beans: whatever the Donald wants, the Donald gets.

On looking at the post of WillamX-37. I was really impressed, he put it all in a nut shell. PLEASE READ WHAT HE HAS POSTED.... To paraphrase...

The Scottish Government should DEMAND a performance bond equal to the entire value of the project... I add here, AND, any "convenient unforseen overruns", because as sure as day follows night, the Donald will end up making you pay. He is like the man with an iron pot and a stone who started to make "stone soup" on the outskirts of a village. Through their simple trust and curiosity, eventually the villagers ended up supplying all of the other ingredients, and agreed that the soup was the best they had ever smelled, whilst the man with the pot and stone supped every drop.
All I say is.... Watch out Scotland.

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Report Unsuitable

276

,

08/12/2007 23:15:34

Comment Removed By Administrator

Reason: Scotsman Import, Original comment id: 1214437, Article id was mapped to record!

277

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 08/12/2007 23:20:19

312, Resolutions. If the area is unsuitable for development then how come there is housing in the first place? And more housing in the second place?

As for the dunes, when did someone realise that it was better to go against the nature of man and allow an unstable coastline to go unchallenged?

My ancenstors came down from the trees a long time ago. When will you?

Report Unsuitable

278

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 08/12/2007 23:33:50

To put this another way. Global warming and rising sea levels. Flood defences would see us doing a Netherlands - coastal dykes.

And we have a coast.

Shifting dunes would be way down the list of priorities.

Report Unsuitable

279

McMillar,

Fife 08/12/2007 23:43:36

Well said Jock T #315.

#313 Have you actually been following the story. You ask about proof…It was escalated by the council themselves after the Ford vote due to ‘unprecedented local support’. I couldn’t be bothered reading the rest of your post after that start.

Report Unsuitable

280

Resolutions,

08/12/2007 23:44:21

#315 If the area had been suitable for housing it would have been zoned as such. The houses in the area are very scattered. This is a scheme.

I did not mention about challenging dunes, but for information,a large dune system such as this is not as unstable as that. Those concreted etc tend to cause masiive problems either up or down the coast from the area interfered with and to my knowledge there is a port to the south which is insignificant to the oil industry - and with a lot of golden sands(diappearing!) and to the north there is St Fergus - a not inconsiderable development. But longshore drift, if I remember correctly is to the south so.........Aberdeen look out.
My predessors came from an area with few trees and like yours probably, were far more in tune with working with nature, than we are today and considerably less arrogant in their abilities and ..... dare I say, probably more successful as were not as greedy. They were prepared to work for a legacy for you. Are you prepared to pass on a reasonable legacy?

Report Unsuitable

281

McMillar,

Fife 08/12/2007 23:44:47

I did of course mean #312. not #313. Excuse typo.

Report Unsuitable

282

Justice,

Aberdeenshire 08/12/2007 23:59:48

Further to the above postings concerning the nationality of the councilors or planetry roots of their parents I wonder if anyone can provide the location of their birth (assuming they were not dropped in the river in a reed basket somewhere). This would include the strange sounding persons who were on TV as spoksmen of "Sustainable Aberdeenshire".

As a non golfer and a past resident of Foveran I would welcome the development as it may provide a bit of a wind break from the stormy north sea. It would also provide a substantial boost to the whole NE of Scotland. You just need to look at other areas with high class golf courses and see the offshoot boost to the location.

When I stayed at Foveran I had run ins with the "planning committee" who went to great lenghts to delay my planning application for a house there and they even specified that I use a particulat coulour of tiles on the roof. I was informed that my house would be the last to be built there but lo and behold a developer came in and build loads of houses there on the local playing field. So much for maintaining the facilities of the area. I wonder how many bulging brown envelopes changed hands.

Report Unsuitable

283

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 09/12/2007 00:02:54

My experience of flood defence is either to concrucr clay bunds od drive piles into the the bedrock. Either way the dunes are fecked.

If you use piles you have to provide a level ground for the piling rig. If you use clay you have to strip the soil back to clay. If you construct inside the dune area then you can have vantage points for dune spotters and a wee shop to sell the anoraks.

Report Unsuitable

284

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 09/12/2007 00:07:17

318, Resolutions. Check out the area. The recent housing is not scattered. It is schemed.

Report Unsuitable

285

Andrew BOD,

Aberdeen 09/12/2007 00:13:07

318

1. Balmedie has a very large housing scheme next to the dunes. It's not scattered.

2. The dunes would be stabilised using indigeious marram grass, not concrete.

3. They are going to plant trees you could climb up.

Night night Clarry.

Report Unsuitable

286

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 09/12/2007 00:19:24

Resolutions, let me draw your attention to the following street names in Balmedie,

Forsyth Road
Forsyth Drive
Old Mill Crescent
Beach Fieldway
Keith Crescent
Keir Heights
Burnside Way

How quintessentialy 18th century Aberdeenshire, don't you think?

Report Unsuitable

287

Blue Tooner,

Aberdeenshire 09/12/2007 00:26:30

I've been wondering what effect the sudden stabilizing of dunes that have been unstable for thousands of years might have on the coast, estuaries and harbours to the north and south of the area in question. Any ideas anyone?

Report Unsuitable

288

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 09/12/2007 00:40:33

326,Blue Tooner. I have always wondered that myself sinse I worked on a flood defence scheme. The water has to go somewhere. But not in my back yard.

In this instance I don't think it would have too much impact on the neighbouring coastline as the spread of the tidal force would not be as concentrated as that of a river.

Report Unsuitable

289

mememeok,

Glasgow 09/12/2007 00:44:11

This is all so sad.
I remember getting a phone call 16yrs ago from my late father-in-law. It was a Saturday afternoon I had been DIY'ing, and he was at his golf club, so proud to be a part of it over many years.
This was an exceptional situation. He was dying of cancer and urgently needed assistance but didn't want to lose face with his established and respected company. I went to collect him and get him home with what dignity we could manage and out of respect for his predicament I quickly changed from my DIY'ing presentation into something more socially acceptable, ie. jeans and a shirt. He was a real gem of a guy and it meant a lot to him that I had entered into his world, the clubhouse lounge that he was resting in with 5 or 6 valued friends at his table. On my arrival he immediately asked if I would like to join his freinds with a drink, but seeing how dreadfully ill he was I said I didn't have the time because of the need to immediately return to finish what I had been doing. He respected this, and with assistance got up and went to gather his things. As soon as he left the table 2 or 3 of his respected freinds almost competed with each other to tell me it was just as well I had refused the offer of a drink because they would have had to object to the bar manager if I had accepted because I was wearing jeans. In his absence they humiliated my F-in-law amongst themselves and they all turned up at his funeral 6 weeks later. 3 weeks after that I spread his ashes on the 18th green.
His was an allegedly "working class" club and whilst I'm sure that its membership would love to aspire to the ranks of those who will be privileged to play the Balmeddie courses in the future it is clear to me that this Trump proposition should be rejected.
There are already many struggling clubs with no waiting lists over-inflated values, prices and attitudes. This proposal must not proceed. The beaches and estate are unique and must be protected fr

Report Unsuitable

290

Shauna...,

Montana 09/12/2007 00:46:01

The Scottish Government and the great history of a land well steeped in impressive scientists, leaders and those with a great ability to maintain collarboration.........wield this sword through the battle with poise and grace. Once the "give and take" begins...........there is na going back. I agree with the following two post....build, if you may, however guarantee the best envrionmental practices that have "sustainability" and keep it "local" and highly valuable ecologically(environmental). All the world will come, yet the sustainability will keep all involved healthy and able to avoid the traps of affluence and dysfunctional relationships that money and greed seem to bask in. All must know the issues of water quality, pesticides, and air pollution, besides the seige by affluence, power and greed. The idea can be done, cannot it not..........and if Trump has faith in courage and humility then he will work this out, even if it takes a bit longer to plan..........PLANNING and ETHICS are on Scotland's side........they always have been. He has a heritage that he must also love. As each of us does; hense following these blogs!

On looking at the post of WillamX-37. I was really impressed, he put it all in a nut shell. PLEASE READ WHAT HE HAS POSTED.... To paraphrase...

The Scottish Government should DEMAND a performance bond equal to the entire value of the project... I add here, AND, any "convenient unforseen overruns", because as sure as day follows night, the Donald will end up making you pay. He is like the man with an iron pot and a stone who started to make "stone soup" on the outskirts of a village. Through their simple trust and curiosity, eventually the villagers ended up supplying all of the other ingredients, and agreed that the soup was the best they had ever smelled, whilst the man with the pot and stone supped every drop.
There are many execellent examples of environmentally desig

Report Unsuitable

291

Beth Boyle,

rural, NY 09/12/2007 00:48:16

Throw off the English and then sell Scotland cheaply to creepy American developer, now there's a plan.

Report Unsuitable

292

Huntly loon,

Aberdeenshire 09/12/2007 00:51:54

Resolutions: I was trying to work out through your double negatives whether you had received the views of people living in the vicinity of the proposed development and farther afield. Perhaps you could repeat what your findings were, and which parts of the county they came from.

We may be rather animated in this part of Aberdeenshire at the moment, in that Councillor Ford lives nearby and is one of our representatives. The almost universal reaction to his voting decisions has been one of anger and annoyance, in that he was so out of touch with our aspirations.

I have not been much in contact with folk from more distant parts of the county, and therefore I cannot speak for them, but I have seen the reaction of John Cox from Banff and posters on these sites who I can spot are clearly local to eastern Aberdeenshire, and they seem to share my reactions.

As someone born and bred in Aberdeenshire, my views tend to be pretty much in line with the general population as I have a considerable circle of contacts of all ages and backgrounds throughout Aberdeenshire and there is a sharing of opinions. I was quite surprised by the 'hysteria' which this topic has created, and it is totally untypical of Aberdeenshire, which is very slow to get worked up about anything. Folk tend to keep opinions close to their chests. This time it has been different. I have never seen anything like it before. It seems to have brought the environmental debate into the open, and the result has been almost a backlash against its excesses. Aberdeenshire folk do not suffer idealogues telling them that they know best. We are a pragmatic people. That is why there has never been class conflict, sectarianism and other faults which has blighted much of the central belt.

I would welcome some impartial survet of the opinions of the county. Indeed, I think the council or the media should have organised a poll before now in order to accurately and impartially gauge opinion. It would al

Report Unsuitable

293

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 09/12/2007 00:52:34

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=FX6TUIKAFzw

329, they're playing your song here.

Report Unsuitable

294

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 09/12/2007 01:03:26

331, Huntly Loon, I sympathise and empathise with you although I am not a Loon.

Perhaps, though, the ignorance of the central belters has a lot to do with the fact that you all remain silent up there when it comes down to Scottish issues.

We do not hear your voice. I for one miss it.

Others have never heard it. What else do you expect?

Report Unsuitable

295

mememeok,

Glasgow 09/12/2007 01:15:25

I can relate to Huntly loon re the Aberdeenshire thingy, I am also local, Bucksburn to be precise. This economic Americanisation is not for us, that area, or our local or national economy. This Institutional globalisation isn't interested in your interests.

Report Unsuitable

296

b h,

Dornoch 09/12/2007 01:39:59

Aberdeen and Scotland must wake up and relearn that which we've bloody well known for hundreds of years, but have somehow lost sight of in our society. Learn from Trump, because he hasn't forgotten it. This is our wake-up call. And "it" is:

The heart, soul, and value of our country lies in the dirt. NOT in tourism. It seems to me that we have just not brought in the right advisors, the right consultants, to help us DO IT OURSELVES, THEREBY KEEPING THE PROFITS WHERE THEY BELONG, HERE IN SCOTLAND. Prowling real estate wolves like Trump, thinking, hell, knowing he can disguise his actions behind the mask of "golf, golf history, the best golf course in the world, his mother was Scottish," in order to concrete our coastline and make ZILLIONS, can spot our weaknesses from oh so far away. And dear Scots, we are having trouble seeing the forest for the trees, but we have the prettiest dirt in the world! I mean that, our countree is the prettiest in the world!!! Our heather and gorse filled big green treeless misty hills, our wonderful long evenings of lovely enchanted light! To die in Scotland is a privilege and a dream!

I must repeat myself. We cannot handle a Donald Trump. We have no idea who we are dealing with. He will eat us alive, then spit us out. Scotland is Little Red Riding Hood and Trump is the Wolf and Scotland is saying "My, Mr. Trump, what a lot of money you have!" And Trump is answering "All the better to buy your soul with."

A little money now, a lot of heartache later.
We must get off our arses and figure out how to develop Scotland ourselves, to create housing for everyone that blends into the landscape, and that allows everyone access to the shoreline, and that's accomplished in a reasonably eco-favorable way.

Here is my suggestion. Read all you can about Frank Lloyd Wright. It seems to me his architecture exemplifies all that is great in Scotland. The stone, the shelter, the aestheti

Report Unsuitable

297

Tiree,

Vancouver,BC 09/12/2007 01:42:51

Scotland needs Donald Trump like they need a hole in the head.

It's said that this guy is a meglomaniac with delusions of grandeur. Whether or not this is true there are a couple of points that stand out.

He can make money, as is his intent, and he hardly has Scotlands interests at heart. The guy seriously needs to grow up. His dream for Scotland for me, anyhow, is how much he can pocket and take away.

I very much admire those who had the intestinal fortitude to stand up to him and his cohorts with some good Scottish common sense and their concern for the future of the environment in the country.

For too long Scotland has been at the mercy of 'robber Barons' who have stolen and plundered the game and wildlife in the country and left the residents with little or nothing to show for it but menial servitude jobs.

Hope he sticks to his silly and laughable shennanigans in the USA.

Report Unsuitable

302

dianne12,

Aberdeenshire 09/12/2007 09:04:15

#335 bn

Well said!

Keep signing to keep Trump out of Scotland:

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/trumpoff/

Report Unsuitable

303

Richard Taylor,

Aberdeen 09/12/2007 09:34:14

Land of the Free:

That gave us obesity, pollution, illegal wars.

Aberdeen deals with £££ & $$$ every day. It's called the oil industry.

You'd think DT wanted to put an oil refinery up.

See Storr (if it is her) continues to post, but she hasn't replied to the issue I raised:

DID SHE CONSULT HER CONSTITUENTS?????

She hasn't replied, because she KNOWS the answer to that one.

Why are so many of the objectors against Aberdeen/shire trying to look to its future after the oil does finish - we will have to very soon?

Tourism & better marketing of the same has to be the way ahead.

Let ALL the proposed golf developments go ahead - Trump, Nicklaus, Lawrie, Hendry/Watson(as rumoured).

Report Unsuitable

308

Andrew BOD,

Close to Menie 09/12/2007 11:45:50

350 Anchor
243 Debra Storr

They closed the petition because of multiple voting abuse. I asked them.

Anyway, how could it be an accurate local poll if it was open to all ecos with an interest from around the world.

The two local polls that were done in a short space of time showed support of 71 - 89% (stv & original FM)

Report Unsuitable

309

Keen Golfer,

aberdeenshire 09/12/2007 11:49:39

If this 'golf' development gets the go ahead, then golf tourists coming to the North East must be admired for their hardiness. In the past two weeks Aberdeenshire has enjoyed high winds, stinging rain and sleet, low temperatures and low light conditions. These all make for challenging golf conditions to say the least. Our summers are really not much better weather wise, and frequently the haar sweeps in from the North Sea and covers the coast and its courses in a blanket of grey fog.
How can siting a 'world class golf course' in the North East make a realistic profit when the weather conditions up here would prohibit golfing on so many days of the year.

Report Unsuitable

310

Ayr-Swipe Scut™,

09/12/2007 13:01:20

Glad to see Alex Salmong is corrupt.

Glad to see Alex Salmond is like his old man "uncle Joe" for his Stalinist fream controllerly.

Please to see him stick two fingers up at Scotland's democracy.

Glad to see the rich do not need to use the established "appeals process" and can just stick our First Minister a bung in a swanky hotel.

Pleased to see Alex Salmonding lieing through his teeth saying hie got involved as a constituency MP. Whereas he didn't get involved with other applications in the area.

SNP are finished, they are worse then Labour and that takes some doing.

Let's have the Tories back. Get all these shaved apes that vote Labour/SNP and fleece the middle classes for every penny they work hard all week to earn off their fat bums and scrap their lazy cooncil jobs.

Report Unsuitable

311

Richard Taylor,

Aberdeen 09/12/2007 13:18:07

Fantastic news that Alex & SNP have rescued the proposals from the numpty environMENTALISTS.

See the London-based & central belt-centric parties fighting like ferrets in a sack. They couldn't give a toss about NE Scotland.

David "taxi for" McLetchie & some Glasgow Labour numpty (dodgy donations anyone?) debating about something that has sod all to do with them.

Had Trump proposed the central belt for his development then there would have been no problems, would there?

Report Unsuitable

312

Huntly loon,

Aberdeenshire 09/12/2007 13:23:16

On the politics Show, Alex Salmond was slated for having met representatives of the Trump organisation at the Marcliffe in Pitfodels. Mike Rumbles MSP for West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine took exception to that meeting in his constituency, as did David McLetchie (Con) and Johann Lamont (Lab). Alex Salmond was accused of lack of transparency concerning the meeting, but as constituency MSP I am sure he is well aware of all aspects of the affair, and would have been failing in his duties not to have heard all representations from interested parties. As and MSP he is obliged to keep confidences with whom he speaks to in regard to consituency matters. All his consitituents are entitled to make their views clear to him on matters which concern them and he is entitled to bring these concerns to others whether voters or not.
The First Minister was quite entitled to relay his concerns to John Swinney of the problem that had arisen in Aberdeenshire and he exercised his power to call the matter in.
Another interesting point raised in the programme was that the Aberdeenshire Council still had the option to have the matter discussed in full council. That seems to be contrary to the advice which the chief executive of the council was giving last week which prompted the call-in.

Report Unsuitable

313

petermac,

Aberdeen 09/12/2007 13:23:48

Nobody ,it appears could or would answer my query posted at no 185.It seems to methat unless the call in is legal then everyone is wasting time and effort.

By the way is the guy Hobday the same agent as the guy who headed the Speyside golf course/hotel thing which went belly up last yr?..sounds familiar houses etc to be built to support the course which was actually owned by the local laird but used by the locals....

Report Unsuitable

314

RGauldie,

Edinburgh 09/12/2007 13:29:11

Trump's Menie project will create an 'estimated 6000 jobs'.

This figure needs to be challenged quickly.
Whose estimate?

A 450 bedroom hotel, even in the four or five star category, is very unlikely to operate at a staff-to-guest ratio of less than three or four to one.
So Trump's hotel might create, at most, 300 jobs.

Most of these will be minimum-wage - cleaners, kitchen staff, porters, waiters and bar staff - and, knowing the hotel industry, will be filled not by local workers but by non-union migrants

At the management level, Trump will certainly bring in his own managers from his US empire.
So no quality jobs for locals there.

That leaves us with a further 5700 jobs to be created to reach that 'estimated 6000'.

I suppose if each of the 950 holiday villas and 500 luxury homes that Trump proposes had a full-time butler, a cook and a housemaid that would another 4,500 or so. Seems a bit unlikely though.

Still leaves 1200 jobs to make up that estimate - can't see even the world's biggest and best golf course needing that many caddies and greenkeepers.

No, the 6000-job figure that is being bandied about by lazy-minded politicians and journalists is presumably beefed up by including all the jobs that would notionally be created in the construction of Trump's dream. Fair enough, but these are temporary jobs, many of them low-paid and many of them certain to be filled by migrant labour.

To pretend that Trump's project offers any significant number of skilled, properly paid jobs to people from Aberdeenshire (or elsewhere in Scotland) is simply a nonsense.

Report Unsuitable

315

Huntly loon,

Aberdeenshire 09/12/2007 13:31:16

#357 my understanding was that although the Infrastructure Committee had come to their decision the formal paperwork had not been completed determining the application and therefore the application had not at that point been killed off. The Scottish Government exercised their call in by notifying the council of that intention before the Coucil had concluded their procedures. The call in was correctly made.

Report Unsuitable

316

JR Ewing,

Aberdeen 09/12/2007 13:44:19

#358

Something important you missed in the economic argument

How much public subsidy will DT receive - 0%
and the public subsidy environmentalists receive for their pet projects usually - 95 to 100%

Obviously the council will not be collecting any local taxes either.
Oops error these tax breaks are exclusively for environmental projects dear to Mr Ford's heart such as wind farms.

Report Unsuitable

317

Huntly loon,

Aberdeenshire 09/12/2007 14:05:54

#360 JR Ewing you bring up a point that is often lost in the debate, is how much local tax would have been raised from the development.
I raised this point in my post #277 but I will ask it again.

How much would the Trump development have produced in Non Domestic Rates for the authority?

How much do the dunes currently provide?

How much would the existing facilities such as Haddo Country Park, Aden Country Park and Forvie Sands have gained from the potential increased finance, which might have paid for more countryside rangers and environmental protection.

The environmentalists are reluctant to comment.

Report Unsuitable

318

Andrew BOD,

Aberdeen/shire 09/12/2007 14:26:06

354 Ayr-Swipe Scut™

Your post is just a party political rant that is not really part of this discussion.

ALL the political parties support this inward investment (excl. the Greens, with whom famous Cllr Ford allies his views.)

Report Unsuitable

319

Ayr-Swipe Scut™,

09/12/2007 14:28:20

For the love of a lousey dollar eh?

The SNP on here are no better than shaved apes. Alex Salmond's disdain for local democracy borderlines corruption.

Trump's aide would not even publicly acknowledge the meeting. Shady characters the SNP.

The SNP say we love Scotland, Scotland is beuatiful and then at the first chance would destroy that beauty, would destroy local democracy, would destroy Scotland for the love of a dollar.

Pathetic. SNP are like labour but with bigger manifesto lies, bigger corruption and less democracy.

Report Unsuitable

320

Balmedie Walker,

End of tether 09/12/2007 14:29:44

Quite, Keen Golfer. Furthermore, people who think that Trump is our "saviour" and that we are "taking advantage of him" rather than the other way round and all the other rubbish should take a look at his business record. He has filed for bankruptcy leaving his investors completely screwed, he abandons projects by selling-off his buildings leaving them to the mercy of the volatile market etc etc the list goes on. Of course, HE isn't hurt by it all, but those that are left certainly are. Is this what we want for the area?
Balmedie Beach is the second most-visited tourist site in Aberdeenshire and Aberdeenshire's unemployment rate (0.9%) is one of the lowest in the country. We'd be better off not risking our advantage and making careful decisions. Trump's a greedy maverick and we should avoid him like the plague! We'd be better served in starting a programme of sustainable developments. (We'll need it for when the oil crisis hits and bury your heads in the sand as much as you want, but we're going to face some difficult times in the not-too-distant future! You don't want us "tree-huggers" dancing around singing - "Nah nah nah nah naaaaaah - we told you so!" do you?!)

Report Unsuitable

321

Ayr-Swipe Scut™,

09/12/2007 14:30:11

362

Another SNP democracy hater.

Let the rich f***er use the appeals process. Salmond is acting like a power abusing meglomaniac and proving access for cash.

Parliament can only call in live applications, this one was done and dusted.

Report Unsuitable

322

Andrew BOD,

Aberdeen/shire 09/12/2007 14:55:14

I'm not an SNP supporter, but will be if they approve the application.

Do you really know anything about this issue, or is all your info based on remote-reporting from Edinburgh and Glasgow?

Report Unsuitable

323

JR Ewing,

Aberdeen 09/12/2007 15:23:29

#364

"Balmedie Beach is the second most-visited tourist site in Aberdeenshire"

Source of figures ?

Report Unsuitable

324

KWC,

Edinburgh 09/12/2007 15:37:29

Anyone who has had to deal with a council for planning applications -- even for something as knocking a wall down -- will know how one sided the whole affair is. The council behave as though they can work everything to their liking, timescale and process. Their lack of concern or interest can be extremely frustrating and costly for many of us.

I'm delighted to see, in this case, someone who is powerful enough and bolshy enough to tell them to stuff it up their a*se.

Everyone knows this is a great opportunity for the area. If it is lost I would take great pleasure in seeing the good people of Aberdeenshire get rid of the pratts who seem to put themselves first and the wellbeing of the area second.

Maybe there will be a domino effect and we will get rid of cooncillors altogether.

Report Unsuitable

325

b h,

Dornoch 09/12/2007 17:09:49

Clarry

We may not care for the pollution and Iraq policies of the American government, but perhaps we should listen to them about Trump because I think they may know him a bit better that we.

Do we want a Casino in Aberdeenshire? If the project has to evolve or die, it may evolve into a casino. Remember who you are dealing with.

You cannot ever take your eyes off Trump. The way you speak about Americans is ironic seeing as how you are "trump-eting" one of the ugliest of them all!

And if Holyrood and the past have given us development losses, cannot we do it ourselves and get it right this time, having learned from our mistakes?

Report Unsuitable

326

JR Ewing,

Aberdeen 09/12/2007 18:04:18

Okay Balmedie Walker

More spurious facts from the eco brigade.
Bamedie Beach and Country Park is not even in the
top ten of tourist sites visited in the NE and Aberdeen/

Evidence:-
http://www.electricscotland.com/travel/top_attractions.htm
and
http://www.visitscotland.org/aberdeen___grampian_2005-2.pdf

Furthermore it does not extend to the beach area adjacent to the Menie Estate

Aberdeen is ranked 22 in overseas tourists to UK cities. ( Edinburgh 2, Inverness 13)
We also have the lowest employment figures of any Scottish City for people employed in tourist related jobs at barely 5%

So we would be better starting a programme of sustainable development.
Where do you intend to source the capital - public funding no doubt

Report Unsuitable

327

Caora Dubh,

Croit sheasgair 09/12/2007 18:29:01

'The tycoon, who had previously objected to plans to build an offshore wind farm down the Aberdeenshire coast from the Menie site, said: "We are not going to have roadways or cart paths. All we are doing is stabilising the dunes. Everything is going to be totally natural. "Windmills are totally offensive to the countryside. A lot of countries are really fighting windmills now because they are environmentally horrendous. They make a lot of noise and they are very offensive to look at, especially in a beautiful area." ' End quote.

So Mr Trump objected to offshore wind turbines (NOT windmills Mr Trump), the noise of which could not possibly be heard from shore, because it would spoil the view from his proposed estate. Seeing as Mr Trump is prepared to use enviornmental objections to increase his profits, it should give us great pleasure to see him hoisted on his own petard.

Report Unsuitable

328

Caora Dubh,

Croit sheasgair 09/12/2007 19:00:11

Now here is a plane for Aberdeen City Council and commercial partners:

1. Aberdeen has superb water and is surrounded by some of the UK's most fertile farms. It has a high density of alcoholics & pubs but NOT ONE WORKING BREWERY! Aberdeen needs to create its own unique brew at its own brewery, and Aberdonians need to support that brew instead of imported brands.

2. Engineering firms involved in subsea technology need to start developing expertise in servicing offshore wind turbines, sea current turbines, and wave generators. There is going to be massive expansion in these areas, and Aberdeen must preserve its hard-won lead in sea technology, plus all those jobs.

3. Similarly, those engineering firms must take a long, hard look at the jobs and money to be generated in decommissioning oil rigs and salvaging seabed equipment.

4. Two decommissioned oil rigs must be preserved, "safed", and used for museum/tourism/conference purposes.

5. Aberdeen Uni should take a good look at a research programme in marine biofuels - this area is currently under-researched, and is suited to Aberdeen with its harbour and raw agricultural feedstocks.

6. Under the auspices of Aberdeen City Council and with modest sponsorship from oil companies, the famous record-breaking Aberdonian sailing clipper the Thermopylae can be slowly rebuilt. Existing marine engineering companies can contribute expertise, and unemployed Aberdonians can be apprenticed, learning skills as the ship is rebuilt.
The ship will be equipped with modern sails, electrical and navigation equipment. Amsterdam has built a tall ship, why not Aberdeen?

7. Once rebuilt, tourists will pay to sail on the Thermopylae on short cruises of an hour or two, or to cross the sea to Norway and back. Aberdonians will crew the Thermopylae II.

8. The Dept of Ecology at Aberdeen University and the Fisheries Research Services (FRS) of the Marine Laborato

Report Unsuitable

329

Caora Dubh,

Croit sheasgair 09/12/2007 19:08:54

And Aberdonians: WE ARE SCOTS! We do not need the help of an AmerUSAn ignoramus who does not know the difference between a windmill and a wind turbine, and cannot stretch his imagination beyond yet another bloody golfing estate. We have it in us to help ourselves and our country.

Report Unsuitable

330

Blue Tooner,

Aberdeenshire 09/12/2007 19:10:18

Might be of interest to you:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/north_east/71...

Report Unsuitable

331

Blue Tooner,

Aberdeenshire 09/12/2007 19:15:35

372. Quote from Mr Trump:

"All we are doing is stabilising the dunes. Everything is going to be totally natural."

Make your mind up!

Report Unsuitable

332

JR Ewing,

Aberdeen 09/12/2007 19:18:34

#373

Could you not have suggested some of the above over the past 10 years when the lib/lab admins have sat on their hands and done nothing.

Report Unsuitable

333

Richard Taylor,

Aberdeen 09/12/2007 19:36:47

#378

EXACTLY!! Where WERE Labour/Lib Dem when THEY were in power?

Not interested in addressing the issues in the NE THAT'S for sure!

eg. Sarah Boyack...the Aberdeen by-pass is a LOCAL road (ie. not of national importance). Therefore DON'T expect Govt assistance.

Report Unsuitable

334

Huntly loon,

Aberdeenshire 09/12/2007 20:08:01

I would have thought the local MSP would have been failing in his duties to his constituents if he had not been keeping himself aprised of all matters affecting the area, and that includes hearing the views of all affected parties whether it is proponents, the applicant, objectors or the council. Whether he meets people at his surgery in Peterhead (also outwith Gordon) or at a posh hotel is not relevent. Those who criticise Alex Salmond's actions are free do do so, but it seems very insignificant. An MSP surely is required to maintain confidentiality in his dealing with all private parties.

I am sure Mr Salmond is wily enough a politician not to allow his position to be compromised, and I am sure Mr Trump is wily enough also not to put him in that position.

It is a pity Ms Alexander did not do her apprenticeship with Mr Trump, otherwise she might have been a wee bit more professional in who she took money from. And as for Mr McLetchie I don't think he is particualtly well qualifed to lecture anyone on probity in public life.

Report Unsuitable

335

JR Ewing,

Aberdeen 09/12/2007 20:32:46

An example of the Labour Party's commitment to the NE and clean energy
Peterhead Carbon Capture Plant -

Gordon Brown 2006
"Carbon capture in the North Sea is such a big challenge it will require new infrastructure, a new regulatory framework and new market mechanisms.
Companies working in the North Sea have expressed an interest and that the Government is committed to giving them incentives."

Alastair Darling 2007

I don not consider that it is possible to revisit the proposals for the [carbon capture] competition.

It would have been capable of producing 475MW of electricity.

BP spent approx £50 million the government £0

In contrast to the £10 million public subsidy to the Beatrice Wind Farm Project which when completed will produce 10MW

Report Unsuitable

336

Miss Jean Brodie,

09/12/2007 20:36:52

Move it tae Edinburgh West - ha ha ha - it wid get Joe and Joe and Hector Goodrich - fillin’ their pants and portfolios wi’ excitement and postings wi’ excrement ha ha ha !

Report Unsuitable

337

Andrew BOD,

Aberdeen/shire 09/12/2007 20:47:41

Hi Caora Dubh

Your piece on economic diversity is very laudable but not altogether well thought out. I guess most people can come up with any number of suggestions about economic opportunities in a given area. The difficult part comes when you have to get the investors on board to invest.

The NE is at the back of the queue when it comes to tourism and it's clearly an opportunity we have given our long coastline, rolling hills and mountains, as well as our growing airport with decent links.

We have wealthy businessmen & women in the area, which is great, but they don't have the expertise in tourism to be able to make a difference. Some of those things you have suggested re- oil rigs and tall ship trips to Norway sound great, but we need the captive (tourist) audience first, or nobody will be prepared to gamble any money on these valuable, 'add-on' tourist ventures.

The Donald's proposed development would kick-start tourism in this area and then local development opportunities would become viable.

We musn't let our apparent dislike for him cloud the issue, because this sort of opportunity doesn't really come around very often. We need someone with a bit more respect and clout than Cllr Ford to say: Yes, we'd love to have this development, but we need to work with you so that it fully benefits the future aspirations of the majority in the North East.

Up until now, the debate has been very polarised with opponents failing to mention anything about the economy or the future of Aberdeenshire after Oil. Supporters of the development often don't talk about the environment. Yet these two things together form the crux of the argument for and against.

Let Mr Salmond talk to DT at the Marcliffe, at Balmedie Beach, or even on the Mither Tap. If he is able to agree some concessions that will help augment a good deal for us all and still secure the investment, then fantastic.

I welcome your comments on diversification,

Report Unsuitable

338

dianne12,

Aberdeenshire 09/12/2007 21:35:07

Clarry
Why should the 'Sustainables' be worried about being recognised?..... and recognised by who?

Incidentally I see Salmond is digging himself into a great big hole tonight! tut tut!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/north_east/71...

Report Unsuitable

339

dianne12,

Aberdeenshire 09/12/2007 21:37:09

Apologies my friends try that link again
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/north_east/7135266.stm

Report Unsuitable

340

Andrew BOD,

Aberdeen/shire 09/12/2007 22:17:52

dianne12

Do you think you could maybe enter into discussion, put forward some real arguments or viewpoints for a change.

Every time you post a comment, there's a link attached, normally a petition link. Are you Sustainable (settled in) Aberdeenshire's PR Officer or something?

Report Unsuitable

341

Andrew BOD,

Aberdeen/shire 09/12/2007 22:28:49

Just come across something that seems to be forgotton in the mire:

"The issues here are far too important to be decided at a local level."

Quote by Mickey Foote, Sustainable Aberdeenshire
(BBC News, 21 November 2007)

More common ground, it would appear!

Report Unsuitable

342

Huntly loon,

Aberdeenshire 09/12/2007 22:30:11

This debate has now become very polarised. I doubt that such has not happened in this area since the Disruption in the 1840s when the kirk spilt over the subject of patronage.

Then it was a struggle between the landed classes and the common man. The great fear then was that the common man would deign to elect his minister instead of having him presented by the laird.

The fear then was that if the masses could choose their ministers they might also wish to choose their legislators. We now take it for granted that the masses should elect those who wish to govern us. They did not thole unrepresentative individuals dictating to them then and we are not prepared to accept such a situation for us now.

If the environmentalists wish to rule us let them stand under the party that advances their cause, the Green Party. No Green Party candidates stood for Aberdeenshire Council and none were elected. Therefore I cannot see why we are now being forced to stomach green policies in preference to all other considerations.

This is where we draw a line in the sand. Let the Trump project be built.

Report Unsuitable

343

b h,

Earth 09/12/2007 23:29:20

Ohhhhhh,

Don't it always seem to go,

That you don't know what you've got
til it's gone,

They paved paradise
and they put up a parking lot.

Hey golfer golfer, put away the DDT now,

Gimme spot on apples,
but leave me the birds and the bees,
PLEASE.

Don't it always seem to go,

That you don't know what you've got
til it's gone.

They paved paradise,
and they put up a parking lot.

Report Unsuitable

344

dianne12,

Aberdeenshire 09/12/2007 23:30:12

Andrew Bod

I am an individual - I do not have any affiliation with any groups including Sustainable Aberdeenshire. My information and opinions are my own however I know that they represent those of many other individuals. I have put forward a number of arguments regarding this development - but have received no intelligent response.
For some bizarre reason I have been called 'Debs', Martian, Eco- freakozoid?? and a tree hugging bobbly jumpered whatever etc. On the Herald it was suggested today that I might be Martin Ford's wife and a 'white settler'..(what does that mean?)
I have been asked numerous times, on this, and on another forum, about my whereabouts and nationality - I must confess that I feel slightly intimidated by your, and others, comments. However I refuse to be intimidated. I will continue to post any links and information relevant to this debate.
The reason that I regularly post links to the PM petition is because I wish to redress the unfair press bias that favours of the Trump development.

ps congratulations to Alex Salmond on spending 125K on a branding exercise that came up with: ' Welcome to Scotland' (does that include white settlers Alex?)...even Jonathon Ross was taking the P*** out of it at the weekend c'mon ....Salmond's making us look like fools! ...is this money well spent eh?!

Report Unsuitable

345

b h,

Earth 10/12/2007 00:01:48

They took all the dunes and put em in a dune museum,
and charged all the people a hundred pounds just to see em.

ohhhh,
Don't it always seem to go,
That you don't know what you've got til it's gone.

They paved Paradise and they put up a parking lot.

Report Unsuitable

346

Roy Forrester,

Bloomsburg USA 10/12/2007 00:45:39

Hay Aberdonians, how about a little imagination. You live in a lovely part of the country, make the most of it.

Report Unsuitable

347

Alan Reid,

NZ 29/01/2008 03:34:18

This is all about 1,500 houses to be built on land that would have never been zoned for housing, Trump is in it for short term bucks made quick, then he's out. Aberdeens left with a eyesore, hundreds of jobs, aye right!
"The US billionaire claimed he needed to build the houses to pay for the development" if he's all ready a billionaire, why does he need to build the 1500 houses?

Report Unsuitable

348

williamx,

canada 29/01/2008 05:43:23

They should send it down to the Perthshire planning committee. I have a friend who wants to upgrade parts of his house and has been waiting 3 years. Trumps plan would never get passed.

Report Unsuitable

Sections

Other Sections

Topics

Other Sites

Sun hasn't set on Trump's grand plan

Premium Article !

Premium Article !

Registered Article !

CONTROVERSIAL FROM THE START

Senga Jean,

Stitch That, Jimmy,

East Coast Chick,

Knightsbridge,

Jeff,,

Legacy,

FrancesP,

Bad Yin,

COLINTON.MAINS,

Cincinnatus,

Stitch That, Jimmy,

bendy arsexaminer,

Scozzy,

Huntly loon,

Grimsby Hibee,

FrancesP,

Crawford, Bauld, Wardhaugh and Urquart.,

lorren,

Grimsby Hibee,

Huntly loon,

FrancesP,

Huntly loon,

Scozzy,

Huntly loon,

Huntly loon,

Stanley Unwin,

Stanley Unwin,

lorren,

JAL to Easter Road,

Huntly loon,

Scozzy,

Huntly loon,

Stanley Unwin,

Huntly loon,

Faye,

Huntly loon,

williamx,

Huntly loon,

Huntly loon,

Pete39,

Scozzy,

Big Nige,

Huntly loon,

Stanley Unwin,

Stanley Unwin,

Huntly loon,

Big Nige,

Huntly loon,

Ian_,

Big Nige,

Scozzy,

Dr Mike,

overton,

Richardinho,

maximus007,

McMom,

okanaganguy,

PJ Walker,

John Greigs Beard,

erchie,

Queen D,

Richard Taylor,

Fergus Lamont,

Dark Blue,

hotdoc,

Florenz,

Richardinho,

CKA,

,

Andy Gray,

Frank McGarveys wife,