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Published Date: 07 December 2008
THE Scottish Government should be given borrowing powers in order to revive the struggling economy, it was claimed last night.



Tavish Scott, the Liberal Democrat leader, has argued for a radical change to Scotland's powers so cash can be made available to boost ailing building projects and prevent the loss of thousands of jobs.

Scott said the recession had changed
the nature of the constitutional debate and added that Holyrood should be given more powers to react to the financial crisis.

"The economic events of the last couple of months convince me that people will want to see more lively and responsive government at all levels," Scott said. "I have argued for Scottish controls over different kinds of taxation. We would gain proper accountability for our Scottish Government rather than relying on an annual handout from another parliament.

"Whenever I visit engineering or construction companies or architects and planners, they all tell me the same thing: their industry is in trouble because the Scottish Government simply isn't getting new projects moving."

Scott, who has written an article published today on scotlandonsunday.com, made his comments after this week's publication of the interim report by the Calman Commission, the body set up by Labour, the Lib Dems and the Conservatives to examine new powers for Holyrood.

Scott reinforces his position as the most outspoken leader of the pro-Union parties when it comes to arguing for more powers to be devolved.

His comments came the day after the Council of Economic Advisers said Scotland needed to borrow and build its way out of recession. The group called for the Scotland Act to be amended to allow the Scottish Government to borrow.

A spokesman for the First Minister said: "The Council of Economic Advisers' recommendations make it clear current arrangements do not meet the challenge of the times."

Additional comment from Tavish Scott

Recently we've seen a return to politics on a grand scale. In the Pre-Budget Report big choices were made. VAT down here. Top rate tax up there. Previously we might have seen Gordon Brown put pensions up by just 75p, or he would tinker with the economic cycle to make his Golden Rule seem a bit more plausible. Compared to that, the actions we are seeing now are revolutionary.

And I think this changes the way the debate on new powers for the Scottish Parliament will run from now on. The economic events of the last couple of months convince me that people will want to see more lively and responsive government at all levels. That has big implications for the work of the Calman Commission on the future of devolution.

As the economy tumbles, as tens of thousands of bank jobs are put at risk, as home repossession becomes a real risk for thousands, people in Scotland aren't much impressed by a Scottish Government that varies its Budget by just 0.3% to respond. I am not sure there are many people who find it a sympathetic sight to have a Scottish First Minister apparently without the levers - or gumption - to react to a crisis.

The old argument from the do-nothing brigade has gone out of the window. They used to tell us that Scotland shouldn't have any more powers because it might interfere with the Golden Rule on the economy, or bring some other calamity. That was before the Golden Rule went out of the window.

I have argued for Scottish controls over different kinds of taxation. We would gain proper accountability for our Scottish Government rather than a Scottish Parliament relying on an annual handout from another parliament.

And, perhaps, powers for the Scottish Government to borrow money are right in the frame. Whenever I go to visit engineering or construction companies or architects and planners they all tell me the same thing. Their industry is in trouble because the Scottish Government simply isn't getting new projects moving.

People used to say that the old Barnett formula offered stability and predictability. But, facing economic and financial shocks, that all looks a bit arbitrary and wooden right now.

Who could have predicted that a log jam in health service building projects in England would mean a compulsory reduction in capital investment in Scotland? And that it would come just at the moment when Scottish industry needs it most, when value for money might be the best it's ever going to be, and when tens of thousands of construction jobs are at stake.

So this is where the Calman Commission need to focus. Look at the economic landscape. Look at how governments have had to react around the world. Be convinced that Scotland would benefit from a Government and a Parliament able to exercise lively and responsive government when we need it most. Government needs to be there for a crisis. And it needs the tools to do the job.







The full article contains 819 words and appears in Scotland On Sunday newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 06 December 2008 9:51 PM
  • Source: Scotland On Sunday
  • Location: Scotland
  • Related Topics: Scottish Executive
 
1

moral___superiority_,

06/12/2008 19:50:42
Its an interesting proposal from Tavish.

I wonder where the Scottish Executive would borrow the money from? And indeed what the terms and conditions would be.
2

Observer. 1,

Glasgow 07/12/2008 00:13:45
Wow moral superiority certainly gets you access to stories quicker than anyone else eh ?
3

Observer. 1,

Glasgow 07/12/2008 00:17:57
1 To answer your question, they would bid for money the way that anyone else does, and being a public authority would do so on preferential terms, vastly superior to the humungous waste that is PFI.

That being the case, Westminster will block it.
4

,

07/12/2008 00:22:12
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
5

Observer. 1,

Glasgow 07/12/2008 00:28:47
But it doesn't say anything interesting, so why bother ?
6

Wisnaeme,

07/12/2008 02:00:32
Perhaps borrowing by a Scottish government for the financing of public projects would hinder the nuisance of accountability and transparency as has been patiently demonstrated by the devious contortionists at Westmidden and their interpretations of 'within the rules' conveniences.

Perhaps the Scottish parliament and this administration in particular have not studied the master of sleigh of hand double accounting methods of Meyer Lansky. Nor,do I perceive that this SNP governance has had the time to put into practice such methods as their predecessors might have.

Such methods of fiscal maneuverings are better left to Westmidden eh. Where they have been practiced to near perfection, ah'm sure.
.

So who would you trust to be more accountable?

Westmidden or the Scottish government?

No contest really, is it?

As for Tavish, he's merely embarking on an other pishing into the wind, exercise. Something the FibDems have also had time to practiced to perfection, ah'm sure.
.
7

subrosa,

07/12/2008 02:11:12
Everyone should have a read of Kenny Farquharson's article in the Business section:

http://scotlandonsunday.scotsman.com/opinion/Kenny-Farquharson--Calman-oversteps.4769099.jp
8

Scunnert,

07/12/2008 02:32:39
7 subrosa

Very good article.
9

subrosa,

07/12/2008 03:39:28
#8

Morning Scunnert. That article wasn't in the business section, it was the Opinion. The link is correct though.
10

donald,

glasgow 07/12/2008 05:54:45
Why are the thochts of Chairman so imprtant?
11

Calum10,

07/12/2008 10:03:32
Tavish can say all he wants but he has signed up Calman, and this commission has already said no new powers for the Scottish government or parliament.

The LibDems will have to dump Calman, and soon, before anyone believes a word they have to say on Scottish matters.
12

Liberal for life,

Dunblane 07/12/2008 10:29:07
Tavish Scott is continuing to demonstrate that the Liberal Democrats have a better grasp of what needs to be done to help boost business and employment activity at this critical time.

Lib Dem Treasury spokesman Vince Cable MP gave warnings well in advance of the crisis becoming apparent to us all and I would further suggest a government of national unity to help us through this mess might be just the galvanising initiative we need to secure all our future employment prospects.
13

Ugly George,

Edinburgh 07/12/2008 10:34:10
As I said on these threads yesterday, I find these calls for the Scottish Govt to borrow rather perplexing. Any such borrowing could not be seen in isolation. UK national debt is already forecast to hit £1trillion. Scotlands pro-rata share would be £85bn (70%-80% of GDP) Then we have to consider the amount involved in PFI commitments.

If further borrowing takes place, these commitments are going to rise further and may well exceed 100% of GDP. The problem with these levels of debt is that a substantial amount of GDP then goes merely in meeting the commitments in terms of interest/ PFI payments etc. This then impacts on the economy making growth much more difficult to achieve. This is precisely the problem that Japan and Italy have and they have both experienced fairly stagnant economic growth in recent years.
14

subrosa,

07/12/2008 10:35:50
# 12

It's true Tavish is not letting go of this one but, as another poster remarked, don't you think it's time the libdems got out of this Calman setup and stood on their own two feet?
15

Ugly George,

07/12/2008 10:41:15
12 Liberal for Life
"Tavish Scott is continuing to demonstrate that the Liberal Democrats have a better grasp of what needs to be done to help boost business and employment activity at this critical time."

You may believe that to be the case but please read post 13. It may just be the case that Tavish Scott is merely echoing a remark without thinking it through. The route advocated by him is precisely that followed by Japan some years ago - borrow large amounts to invest in infrastructure. All it did was leave Japan with years of economic stagnation.
16

Ugly George,

Edinburgh 07/12/2008 10:48:46
12 Liberal for Life.
PS
Is Tavish Scott not also calling for cuts in income tax? People appear to forget the obvious aspect of borrowing. It has to be paid back either by clearing the loan ar paying the interest. So Tavish Scott is calling for more borrowing that would incur more interest commitments while also advocating that the means used to pay that interest (taxation) is reduced.
How does that stack up?
17

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 07/12/2008 11:19:37
"Scott argues for Loan Powers"

For once, Scott is right.
18

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 07/12/2008 11:21:27
#1 Moral Eejit

A SoS employee without doubt !
19

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 07/12/2008 11:26:01
#16 George

So, are you advocating that all capital investment is halted? No matter how ir is funded it will still end up on the balance sheet.
20

Ugly George,

Edinburgh 07/12/2008 11:58:46
19 connaughtboy
No - I am not arguing that. What I am saying is that recognition has to be made of existing levels of debt before you can just simply call for more.

Tavish Scott has the luxury of many opposition politicians - call for this, call for that without being answerable for the consequences.

The reality is that high govt spending has already led us into a position of large debt. Adding yet more debt is going to place an even larger burden on the economy in future years that will hinder its growth. This means that while you may alleviate some of the problems of the recession now, you are merely making recovery more difficult in the future. As I said, this is the mistake that was made in Japan and has led to years of stagnation.
21

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 07/12/2008 12:05:45
20 George

So, my question remains, how do we fund these projects?
22

Geomac 1,

Scotland 07/12/2008 12:17:00
Yet another politician arguing for more debt at the taxpayers expense.
Let's get rid of many of these politicains - we now have more than ever and yet most of the UK's and Scotland's legislation comes from the EU in Brussels.
Is it not profligacy (living outwith means) that has caused the current economic recession - and yet here's another politician suggesting that we incur even more debt - I depair!!
23

Ugly George,

Edinburgh 07/12/2008 12:19:10
21 connaughtboy
The only sustainable solution in the long term is either to cut other areas of govt spending or increase taxation.

I am worried that many do not appreciate the situation we are in. As I said previously, UK national debt is already high and forecast to hit £1trillion with a pro rata share (based on population) for Scotland being £85bn. Add more debt onto this and you are approaching £100bn which could cost in the region of £5/6bn per year in terms of interest.

To put that into perspective, for the last year for which figures are available (2006/07) total income tax collected in Scotland was £10.2bn. So we could reach a situation where virtually half of all income tax goes just on paying interest on debt. How then do we fund current expenditure - NHS, education etc. The burden of paying interest on debt is so large that it drains a disproportionate amount of the country's GDP.

The bottom line is that govt spending in the UK in general and in Scotland in particular is unsustainably high. It needs to be controlled or we are just stacking up problems for the future.
24

brownlie,

07/12/2008 12:24:16
20 George

Surely it would be better to borrow now when interest rates are favourable rather than carry on with the PFI Policy where the interest rates are going to be sky-high for the next twenty to thirty years.
25

The west awake,

Argyll 07/12/2008 12:35:56
I was exasperated at the Libs choice of Scott as I seen him yet another Campbell/Stephen Labour-loving Unionist drone.
While I reckon the jury's still out on him, I am beginning to think he may be capable of proving me wrong. I am wondering whether he has realised that Calman is a Labour creature whose sole purpose is to preserve as much of the status quo (and Labour hegemony) as possible, - certainly far from Lib Dem beliefs and aspirations. If you were Campbell or Stephen this was OK, since they are/were Labour stooges, but is our latter-day Viking finding some backbone?
How good would it be if Scott took the Libs out of Calman? Calman and Labour would be left high and dry and a real debate on Scotland's future could ensue.

Come on, it's nearly Xmas, one can hope.
26

Ugly George,

Edinburgh 07/12/2008 12:37:31
24 Brownlie
That would only be feasible if you could borrow on a long term fixed rate of interest. Govt borrowing usually takes the form of bonds which have a life span of up to 25 years. Nobody is going to buy a bond at face value if it only yields 2/3% over 25 years.

If there were a bond issue offering 3% the bond markets would hammer the price of it down to give a better long term return. That would mean that every £1m of face value might only be worth about £700,000.
27

Liberal for life,

Dunblane 07/12/2008 12:40:10
#15-16 etc Ugly George seems to miss the key point in that the essential thing is to somehow or another stimulate the economy in a way it keeps moving so people don't lose their JOB. If that happens (as it did under the Tories before) then tax revenues dry up - end of story. Far better to reduce INCOME tax that would then be saved or be spent on goods and services that help keep other people in employment and help our economy survive this terrible onslaught. The alternative is too unpalatable and would lead to a collapse that would mean future earings wouldn't be there to pay for owt let alone increased borrowings.

So get a reality check and stop peddling measures that will only increase the risk of economic collapse throughout the UK - you and your ilk are a real danger to society (you know the thing the Tories under Maggie T attempted with some success to destroy in the 80's).
28

Liberal for life,

Dunblane 07/12/2008 12:46:36
#25 - behave yersel - Calman will set out a route that the vast majority of Scots prefer, enhanced devolution not just for here but for the rest of the UK as well (which is part of the Calman commissions remit so stop being so parochial).

The LibDems are (as usual) ahead of the game having published the (David)Steel Report over a year ago. Coming from Argyll you should know better and recognise that the LibDems are doing what is in the best LONG-TERM interest for this country, not peddling short term promises of free this and free that and free the next thing, like some parties I hesitate to mention in the context of modern applied political thinking.
29

Mr. Lachie Todd,

Edinburgh 07/12/2008 12:47:04
The Scotland Act already includes tax varying powers.
Remember, we voted for it!

However, the Nationalists, Labour, Lib-Dems, Greens and Tories won't touch this tax raising OR lowering instrument with a ten foot barge pole!

30

brownlie,

07/12/2008 12:55:40
26 George

So you consider that the status quo i.e. exorbitant costs of PFI would be a more feasible and cost-effective measure?
31

The west awake,

Argyll 07/12/2008 13:03:19
Lib for life - You are dreaming pal if you think Calman will do anything other than present Labour/Tory uber-Unionist sandbagging. It was the one clever thing Red Wendy did, - at one stroke she corralled the Libs into a "hold back the tide" cabal which will oppose Independence AND prevent you guys from presenting your federalism. Believe me, federalism is almost as attractive to Labour as Independence and they will ensure Calman sidelines you. How you let yourselves ( as "Liberal Democrats") be manipulated into a cabal who exclude an aspect of Scotland's future supported by at the very least a quarter of Scots defies comprehension.
You sound as bad as Campbell and Stephen, I only hope your new leader does not share your opinions.
32

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 07/12/2008 13:04:31
23 George

I think that tax increases would reduce the overall tax take. I don't think that cutting spending would be politically acceptable (except for Trident and Iraq perhaps).

The key is to create a set of economic signals that encourages investment and enterprise. I genuinely believe that Scotland punches well below its weight and would be far better placed if independent.

Even I, as a born and bred Glaswegian, would suggest that the West of Scotland, and Glasgow in particular, is an economic drain on Scotland as a whole. We need to somhow get the "economically inactive" masses back to work. To do this we need to create private sector jobs and encourage more business start-ups. One obvious way of helping this would be to cut Corporation Tax.
33

Ugly George,

Edinburgh 07/12/2008 13:11:14
27 Liberal for Life
Sorry but you have not appreciated what I have said. OK you borrow large amounts of money to employ people to build a piece of infrastructure thus keeping them in a job. What happens 2/3 years down the line when these infrastructure jobs are complete?

You would hope that they could move onto other jobs but what jobs? You cannot borrow any more
to fund new projects because you have huge debts already and you are draining a large amount of the country's GDP to fund these debts thus leaving less income in the population to finance them. What happens then? Rather than dealing with the underlying problem, you have merely prolonged it.

Please go and study the economies of Japan and Italy over the last 20 years before you resort to crude, simplistic retorts like telling me to get a "reality check". They have experienced a meaningful reality check. An experience that has shown that excessive borrowing is not a solution but just creates long term problems.

Also, just because a point out the realities of the situation and illustrate what has happened in other countries how does that make me and my "ilk" a "danger to society". Please try and discuss these matters with maturity.
34

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 07/12/2008 13:12:20
25 West Awake

Exactly my thoughts on Scott.

When Nicol Stephen was leader the rumours were always that Tavish Scott was the real poison ans was instrumental in refusing to go into coalition with the SNP. Maybe this was a clever tactic to oust Stephen. I doubt that.

I am warming to Tavish Scott. He is not nearly as negative as the other leaders, Ian Gray in particular, and he seems to have Scotland's interests pretty high up his agenda (HBOS being a good example). He also appears to be a fairly intelligent individual, which is quite rare on the opposition benches.

Let's see how things develop, but I agree with you that he is not at all enamoured with Calman et al.
35

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 07/12/2008 13:16:40
Incidently, a question to all Labour supporters:

What do you think of Ian Gray?
36

Kenny Farquharson,

Scotland on Sunday 07/12/2008 13:29:01
Hello!
Just a reminder that if you want to keep up with Scottish politics you should take a look at THE STEAMIE, the new blog brought to you by political journalists and commentators on Scotland on Sunday, The Scotsman and the Evening News.

www.scotlandonsunday.com/thesteamie
37

Ugly George,

Edinburgh 07/12/2008 13:38:18
32 connaughtboy
"I think that tax increases would reduce the overall tax take"

Indeed, lower taxation tends to stimulate the economy thus creating more tax revenues in the long term and increased taxation obviously tends to have the opposite effect as you mentioned. But this merely highlights the problem I have mentioned. If you have a large amount of debt you need a substantial amount of taxation just to finance the debt let alone the normal aspects of govt expenditure. This makes it extremely difficult to cut taxation significantly. In fact, you are faced with having to increase taxation just to finance the debt thus stifling the economy and reducing the long term tax take as you implied. You then enter a vicious circle of increased taxation and a stagnant economy - precisely, as I have mentioned the situation in Japan.

The situation with low corporation tax is an interesting one. Ireland was successful with this when it gained a competitive advantage over the other (then 14) EU countries who at the time all had high rates. This helped the economy grow markedly. But how were they able to do this. Govt spending in Ireland is low and, as I have pointed out on these threads, they do not have an NHS as we know it. Only 30% of the population are entitled to free healthcare.

This gave them the room for manoeuvre to set a low tax. We are not in that position.
38

Liberal for life,

Dunblane 07/12/2008 13:47:59
#33 -don't you know our victorian sewerage system is crumbling, our intercity train links are non existent, our investment in alternative energy plans inadequate. These are INVESTMEBNTS that will last just as the old age pensions and the NHS which are lasting legacies of the Liberal party.

So get on your bike and do something useful for society this afternoon. Then you cast aspertions with some degree of honesty.
39

Wisnaeme,

07/12/2008 15:47:12
We appear to be going around in round robin circles here.
Something that appears to be a prerequisite to a Calman sense of urgency. I perhaps meant to say, a sense of doing nothing to disturb the natural order that prevails. 'Calman' was merely an exercise by bawjaws engaging in a bawjawing exercise amongst themselves. An exercise designed to come to already preordained conclusions of no change is required or necessary. A plural of monologues if you will on the necessity of reinforcing convictions already held, with advice and steerage from interested parties naturally. It also is helpful to be constrained by a narrow remit decided on by folk elsewhere.I mean to say, could be awkward if conclusions were reached outwith Westmidden's considerations of 'me' first and foremost. Aye, it was a grand exercise in the doing of nothing in particular and absolutely nothing in general to upset the status quo in any meaningful way.

...as Westmidden lurches from one incompetent ba11s up to another.From one sleaze ridden episode to another with little of a breathing space betwixt.
One has to consider; If the Scottish parliament had the powers and the responsibility to borrow capital for public projects. Would that not constitute it being in a position of being less dependent on Westmidden and it's priorities?
Would that not constitute a position of being more in control of our own fiscal policies? More in control of our priorities? Tailored to our needs and situations.
...and not dependent on other's needs,other's whims, other's disastrous speculations both in policy and the administration of such in another place.
Perhaps it is time we had a say in our affairs. Indeed,perhaps it is time we should be responsible for them. Therefore having the powers to be fiscal responsible is an absolute if we are to progress to some sort of being in responsible control of our own affairs.
...and Westmidden will freeze over before they allow that to be a consideration.
It is not a matt
40

Liberal for life,

Dunblane 07/12/2008 19:26:59
#39 - this is a preliminary report so don't dismiss it just yet, even if that interpretation suits your blinkered view of things.
41

A True Scot.,

07/12/2008 20:18:03
The Scottish government should be given full powers to govern its own country and end this occupation by a foreign power laughingly referring to itself as a union.
42

Scunnert,

07/12/2008 21:02:41
40 Liberal for life,

Read the link sup[plied by subrosa:

http://scotlandonsunday.scotsman.com/opinion/Kenny-Farquharson--Calman-oversteps.4769099.jp
43

Cauchy Riemann,

Wales 08/12/2008 00:24:59
Liberal for life - I'm afraid Ugly George is right. Ultimately you cannot 'save jobs' by ridiculously high levels of borrowing. What you do is TEMPORARILY keep things moving by injecting more money. But as time passes this compounds the problem further.

Brown's tenure has seen spiralling personal debt (which has now highly exposed the UK in the downturn, worse than others), and now spiralling government debt (as a 'remedy' to the level of exposure.) The end result is not only job losses,which will be of longer duration, but due to high government debt, high taxes and long term degraded public services. 'Solving' debt by more debt is short termism of a suicidal type.
44

A True Scot.,

08/12/2008 07:34:27
43

I believe the point is to give the Scottish government another option if needed i.e to allow them to borrow money if and when necessary. At the moment the Scotland act is a very narrow and tight rein on the Scottish government allowing them no room to maneuver at all these reins have to be loosened in order to allow our government to govern. Ultimatley of course they have to be removed altogether. Scotland is after all a nation not a region nor penisular of another country.
45

A True Scot.,

08/12/2008 07:39:27
13

It would only amount to 70 or 80% of GDP if it were all paid back in a single fiscal year.
since when has any country anywhere paid back its entire national debt in a single fiscal year?
Surely the idea is to pay back national debt over a term of several years and not always in cash but in political favours.
Bit of a dishonest and misleading post there George as per usual.
46

A True Scot.,

08/12/2008 07:50:00
23
"The only sustainable solution in the long term is either to cut other areas of govt spending or increase taxation."

But thats worse possible scenario for everybody George and its very dishonest.
Your forcing the most vulnerable and the hardest working to pay for the mistakes and greed of the wealthy and powerful. A very conservative proposal.
The idea of government is to look after its constituents not increace the burdens of their lives or force them to pay for an established elite.
The long term solution is simply not to spend what you cant afford to pay for. I.E dont go to war if you cant pay for it, dont prop up foreign regimes, dont waste tax money on unneccessary projects such as WMDs and PFI nor allowing wealthy tax dodgers safe havens etc etc.
47

A True Scot.,

08/12/2008 07:52:41
37

Which kind of contradicts your post at 23? are you on medication?
48

Doh,

08/12/2008 12:07:38
#43 Cauchy-True-Tory

So if a business was a having a cashflow problem it should go bankrupt and make everyone umemployed rather than borrow some money.

Short sighted Tory thinking.
49

Cauchy Riemann,

Wales 08/12/2008 15:27:45
Doh, We aren't talking about a business - we are talking about a country. You seem to imagine that there is no consequence to more and more debt building up. The consequences are disasterous, and in the long run won't save jobs anyway.

So yes it is short termist thinking. People seem to imagine we can get out of this mess without any pain. There simply does not exist any solution that doesn't involve problems. For example the NHS is under tremendous pressure; social services for the elderly are collapsing in certain areas. All these services and others will face real cuts because of this excessive debt in the coming decade or two. Some of the most vulnerable in society are going to get kicked in the teeth. If you think this is a wonderful 'solution' then you are free to do so. What a wondering caring person you are - not.

True Scot, yes I agree. IMO fiscal autonomy, or something 'rather near it' is inevitable for Scotland regardless of the independence question.

 

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