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Scotland's growing pains as population rise creates great divide



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Published Date: 23 January 2008
VAST differences are set to emerge in patterns of population across Scotland over the next 25 years, according to the latest demographic forecasts.
The number of people of working age is set to rise in 14 areas - leaving 18 with a declining workforce. Edinburgh will see the largest increase
The figures give a sobering "snapshot" projection for Scotland's 32 local authority areas, showing drifts in population, a massive increase in the number of elderly people and a sharp drop in the number under the age of 15.

The official projections from the General Register Office will have major implications for Scotland's infrastructure, including the number of schools, hospitals, roads and houses.

Overall, the population is predicted to rise to 5.37 million by 2031, an increase of 250,000.

Closer examination shows a population rise in 15 of Scotland's 32 council areas, with West Lothian and Perth and Kinross experiencing the highest increase, at 22 per cent.

The biggest losers are Inverclyde and East Dunbartonshire, where falls of 15 per cent have been projected. Some of our biggest cities are also affected, with both Aberdeen and Glasgow suffering declines.

In terms of Scotland's economy, the number of people of working age is set to rise in only 14 areas – leaving 18 with a declining workforce.

Edinburgh, with its booming financial services, IT and tourism sectors, will enjoy the largest increase, at 18 per cent, while East Dunbartonshire is forecast to experience a 25 per cent drop.

The predictions reveal that the elderly population could rise by 81 per cent, with Aberdeenshire's soaring by 156 per cent.

Meanwhile, the number of children is expected to fall in three-quarters of council areas, most notably in Shetland (down 31 per cent) and East Dunbartonshire (29 per cent).

Craig McCorriston, senior planning manager for West Lothian Council, said: "While we are delighted to be at the centre of Scotland's economy, it brings infrastructure issues with it. This is certainly an issue for us, but we have had forewarning from previous estimates.

"We are looking at a situation where we will need new investment for around 25,000 new houses and up to 12 primary schools and three secondary schools to cope with the influx.

"This means we need around £125 million by 2025 to pay for the schools."

Mike Beale, the president of Perthshire Chamber of Commerce, said the projected population increase in Perth and Kinross reflected its prime location.

"I'm not surprised by the figures, as we're located only 90 minutes away from 90 per cent of Scotland, making us an ideal base for businesses and a good place for commuters to cities such as Edinburgh, Glasgow, Dundee and Inverness," he said. "Plans for a rail link will also make a difference. But, like many places across Scotland, we can see that this projection will throw up a problem of a lack of affordable housing."

David Lonsdale, the assistant director of CBI Scotland, said: "We have consistently argued that Scotland must plan for growth, and that our infrastructure and planning system must be based on the premise that Scotland in 25 years time will have a larger and more dynamic economy, with a growing and wealthier population."

He went on: "Our economy benefits from being open to the skills that migrant workers bring, but we must not fall into the trap of thinking that immigration is the sole solution to the skills problems we face. Inward migration cannot be an alternative to upskilling our indigenous workforce or to labour market policies that help those on benefits back to work."

How population change will affect your region
Job opportunities and the continued effect of ageing are key factors in where people will choose to live, writes SHÂN ROSS


Click here to download PDF of this map

THIS picture of Scotland in 2031 shows a massive shift in population towards the areas where jobs are to be found. Edinburgh and its surrounding region will act as a magnet, offering new opportunities, while other urban areas such as Glasgow, Aberdeen and Dundee are projected to decline.

West Lothian and Perth and Kinross will see their populations rise by 22 per cent, East Lothian by 21 per cent and Aberdeenshire by 19 per cent.

Large population decreases are expected in Inverclyde (down by 15 per cent), East Dunbartonshire (down by 15 per cent), Shetland (down by 10 per cent) and the city of Aberdeen (down by 9 per cent).

However, the key factor is that while the population is expected to rise over the next 25 years, it will age markedly.

There will be a massive increase in the number of over-75s – up by 81 per cent across the country and by up to 156 per cent in Aberdeenshire.

The largest increases in the number of youngsters are expected to be in East Lothian and Perth and Kinross, where there are projected rises of 15 per cent and 14 per cent respectively.

An increasing population has the potential to boost Scotland's economic growth and help the nation prosper.

But the figures, compiled by some of the best statistical brains, can sometimes be somewhat off the mark.

Five years ago, there were dire warnings that Scotland's population was set to fall below the vital five million mark. However, this did not happen, largely because of the unexpected number of migrants from eastern Europe.

The population is now not expected to dip to that level for another 40 years. Meanwhile, Britain's overall population – which is set to go up from 60.6 million in 2006 to 71 million in 2031 – is predicted to continue rising.

Robert Wright, professor of economics at Strathclyde University, said the projections were based on assumptions which can be unreliable.

He said: "We have to consider these figures carefully. What you do is put in numbers and then find various ways of interpreting them. That means there is a large range of vagueness.

"The predictions are useful for councils as they impact on how much money they will get from central government.

"Ageing is not going to be stopped, so it allows them to plan for it and adapt services which will be expensive.

"It also begs the question of whether dividing the country into 32 areas is the best way of determining resources."

We must prepare for people drifting away from cities
ANALYSIS
ALAN ROBERTSON

MAJOR population changes over the next 25 years will throw up a whole host of challenges for bodies and authorities across Scotland.

Areas such as West Lothian and Perth have seen major population growth in recent years and it is no surprise that these areas have been identified for significant further growth.

There has been a growing trend for people to move out of the city to areas like this and travel in to Glasgow and Edinburgh to work. There is no doubt this is very likely to continue. Today, people are much more accepting of this kind of commuter lifestyle, much more so than, say, 15 or 20 years ago, when it was seen as a thing people did in London.

Growing numbers of people have been prepared to travel into Glasgow daily from the likes of Dunbartonshire, Ayrshire and Lanarkshire, and, increasingly, commuters may be prepared to travel further. They feel it is worth an hour-long drive at either end of the day because of the quality of life on offer in these areas, and the fact that the price of property is so much less than in the cities.

However, these trends have implications for the roads network, to ensure it can cope with the extra traffic that will be generated. It's also crucial we look at providing more park-and-ride sites outside our cities, as well as improving the capacity of our railways and other forms of public transport.

The other key issue is that we need to ensure we continue to provide new places for people to work, whether it be major office developments or business units. This obviously applies to cities, but it is also very relevant to areas of major growth, and there must be an ample supply of land available to cater for demand for business space, as well as for housing.

It can take a long time to get major structural plans through the planning system, so it's vital local authorities and other bodies start looking at the predicted trends now and plan ahead for the future.

In areas of declining population, as long as there is enough of a critical mass of people, it is not so much of a problem. It is when local authorities start to have half-empty schools and declining numbers of people using public transport that they will have problems making them financially viable. They will then face very tough decisions on whether to keep them going or not.

• Alan Robertson is Scottish managing director of the property and planning consultancy Jones Lang LaSalle Scotland.

CHALLENGES POSED BY THE CHANGES
• BY 2031 the number of children aged below 15 will fall in 24 out of 32 local authority areas. Shetland will see the largest drop at 31 per cent while in East Dunbartonshire numbers will fall by 29 per cent.

Ronnie Smith, president of the EIS, said the figures posed "big" questions for education authorities.

• The number of over-75s is expected to rise by 81 per cent. Aberdeenshire can expect a massive increase of 156 per cent. Lindsay Scott, spokesman for Help The Aged in Scotland, said local authorities should start planning now and people in their 40s and 50s should "get into training" for a longer life.




The full article contains 1596 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 23 January 2008 12:43 AM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Scotland's population
 
1

I'mallymax,

Orwellian nightmare; living in dundee. 23/01/2008 01:01:02
According to this report dundee is in line to lose more than 10% of it's population. I'm not surprised, it's a door and dank city that has always struggled to find par with Scotland's other cities since William Wallace put a curse on it over 800 years ago when he was outlawed from dundee.

Winston Churchill also made a pledge to see the grass grow over its manufacturing when he was run out of the town by a baying mob in the early 1920's.

There is lots of job losses there, and the city finds it hard to link any kind of good Scottish history to itself, apart from 'The RSS Discovery'. Seems dundee is an uphill climb!
2

An Beal Bacht,

23/01/2008 01:04:30
I find the map included with this article confusing. Natural change? Net migration? All ages? etc... Perhaps if these terms had been explained or defined I might have a chance of understanding what the changes will mean.
3

AC,

Melbourne 23/01/2008 01:14:11
Dundee's population decrease is partly due to decline but also due growth beyond the (sometimes redrawn) boundries such as in Monifieth (houses being built all around the Dundee border) and also Invergowrie and Carnoustie.
4

,

23/01/2008 01:22:27
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
5

The Strategist,

23/01/2008 01:38:12
Given the damage Gordon Brown has done to our pension funds retirement is much further away for most people than it used to be. A huge percentage will have to keep working well after the official retirement age except of course for civil servants whose pensions we're all paying through the nose for.
6

I'mallymax,

Orwelian nightmare; living in dundee. 23/01/2008 01:39:22
#4, I agree totally with you. But dundee is still an uphill climb!
7

williamx,

canada 23/01/2008 02:32:59
Dream on boys. If the decline in output remains at the current 8%, the output from the North Sea oil fields will be 40% of todays values in 10 years. And the decline usually accelerates as the field ages. So when will you get control of the oil fields? 2018? 2028? You can be sure Westminster has all of this calculated out even to the hand over date whether you vote for independence or not. You will get it when there is a little left so that the Westminster politicians can say they handed it over. Like Gaelic. When the number of speakers declines as it has to current levels where the language is in terminal decline then Westminster comes out all cosy like and decides to support it. Called politics
8

ex-labour,

23/01/2008 02:59:41
#7 I agree with you about the oil politics. What is also happening is that the workers in Scotland's oil fields do not spend their money in Scotland. That is a major problem. They fly in and fly out, and Scotland sees none of it, or much less that it should. A levy on non-Scotland-based oil workers would be my answer.
9

Snuffy Ivy,

Aberdeen 23/01/2008 03:09:52
#7 You are dead on!
The Canadian government is doing the same thing with Newfoundland's oil in the Hibernian field. Scotland stands to get the crumbs and the clean up afterwards.
10

COLINTON.MAINS,

Oakville Ontario 23/01/2008 03:37:23
WHEN.OIL.AND.MONEY.GONE.THEN.WHAT.BE.READY
11

COLINTON.MAINS,

Oakville Ontario 23/01/2008 03:42:36
WHEN.OIL.AND.MONEY.GONE.THEN.WHAT.BE.READY
12

Pete40,

Tassy 23/01/2008 05:07:07
When Scottish oil runs out we should be able to buy oil from England. You mean that you did not know that England has onshore oil fields and rights to the fields in the Irish Sea.
13

yockel,

GSSB 23/01/2008 06:49:17
"sharp drop in the number under 15," Well that will cut the teenage pregnancy rate, under age drinking and crime in general. What's the problem?
14

danielrober,

23/01/2008 07:22:06
This population map actually looks very healthy. People are moving to areas where jobs are available and families are having children that they can afford. This is very healthy.

As for the number of old people growing, what an excellent measure of success. Lets have an annual list, a competitive list, that says i have more old people over 100 years old than you.

Healthly, long lived, sensible population size and people willing to move where the work is, excellent.

The future looks great.
15

rpb,

23/01/2008 07:26:34
Time to step up the relocation of all public sector jobs to the West of Scotland to halt that decline in voter numbers
16

eric,

Lothian 23/01/2008 08:10:39
Is this the same Edinburgh that Financial companies are bodyswerving and going straight to Glasgow!Coz the red tape in Edinburgh .This story is mince.
17

Gusto,

23/01/2008 08:40:39
Dundee: strange that it was last week named the most "intelligent" city in Scotland. If this is the same Dundee you're talking about, it doesnt say much for the rest of Scotland's cities....
18

Slioch,

Scottish Highlands 23/01/2008 08:44:09
It would have been useful to provide a similar map showing was has actually happened during the previous 25 years, ie from 1981 to 2006, so that we can compare our previous experience to this projection. Bald figures on their own, without any reference to previous experience, are less easy to interpret.
19

moiaussi,

23/01/2008 08:58:55
One positive aspect of these population changes (if they happen) is that we'll get a better balance between West Coast and East Coast. The national projection however suggests continued mass emigration of Scots disguised by in migration from elsewhere.
20

Rulesbutnotrulers,

Federation, not separation 23/01/2008 09:02:09
Scotland could grow rich designing and building and exporting submarine turbines, just as it once did ships. Let's hope the SNP etc get their teeth into replacing the oil as the latter is last century.
21

joppa jock,

Huntingdon 23/01/2008 09:10:49
#4 The English already believe that Scotland is a land of milk and honey. I think they also believe that the only county in Scotland is West Lothian for that's the one they're always asking questions about.
22

Why can't I use my usual name?,

Glasgow 23/01/2008 10:10:54
The story omits to mention the projected 80,000 increase in Edinburgh's population - not quite the largest % increase but the largest actual number and in a small physical space which is already suffering from overheated property markets and infrastructure (although maybe less so if the financial markets don't pick up...).

With the neighbouring E+W Lothian increases, it looks like a LDN+Home Counties situation may arise in Scotland. Do we want that?
23

D PATERSON AKA ERIC LOTHIANS,

here 23/01/2008 10:18:00
#16 eric, this sentence taken from todays scotsman business section He added: "There are some indications just now of redundancies among workforces. A fairly large firm went out of business last week in Glasgow, although there's been little happening in Edinburgh. seems to contradict what your saying huh?
24

Teamdroid,

23/01/2008 10:43:31
Alan Robertson's analysis fails to take into account inevitable cost increases of personal and public transport. If we see massive rises in oil prices due to shortages, living in that country village and driving into Glasgow will simply be too expensive for most folk. Also, the projected increases in population for Edinburgh seem entirely predicated on the finance industry, and that's not looking too healthy right now, is it?

Far too many variables involved here, and this survey seems to just asume the status quo for the next 25 years on too many things.
25

The Strategist,

23/01/2008 10:45:44
Oil .. Yes production is declining. That's why sensible countries are developing alternative energy technologies.

Gordon Brown is helping to drive this. He's just given £50m to China to help them develop "green" technology.

With friends like.... and so on and so forth..
26

Freshford Fresh,

Dundee 23/01/2008 11:16:51
#1 Dundee has two very fine universities and therefore a large percentage of young people living in the city. Because of the decrease in younger people and the increase in elderly the population, Dundee's population will obviously go down and will increase in places like Perth & Kinross where older people tend to retire. It is nothing to do with it being a "door and dank city" or the ridiculous cursess of Wallace and Churchill. The decrease of people under 15 is no boubt due to them all murdering each other in the street. Yes?
27

gkc,

alloa - centre of the universe and sh@@@@ole 23/01/2008 11:18:49
Alloa is currently undergoing massive regeneration and housebuiling, the high street is undergoing massive changes with a new sallie army shop opening in competition with the other 100 and the new hairdressers, nail shops and tan shops. Just what the new build house population need.

I am actively involved in bringing in new Europeans to Scotalnd and many of them are now staying, attending schools and getting ever better jobs according to their professional qualifications, this is one way to address a falling birthrate and older population.

Immigration is theanswer to these demographic problems
and it should be welcomed as in the future this is new generation of Scots whether you like it or not.
28

Anthony,

Glasgow 23/01/2008 11:45:15
A lot of these predictions turn out to be wrong. Remember the one about us all having tons of leisure time? Or a new baby-boom? The paperless office perhaps? The sheer size cost and growing intrusiveness of our public sector, is I would say in agreement with other posters, our major problem.

Uncontrolled immigration, irrespective of how thoroughly decent many of the immigrants undoubtedly are, is not the solution. It leads to vast leakages in our own economy, as billions of pounds flood out of our economy each year. As pointed out by demographers at Oxford University recently, the General Registrar when giving his pro-immigration figures, failed to factor in the fact that immigrants do actually get older too!
29

The Genuine Mario Antoinette,

23/01/2008 11:57:47
36, youre right Anthony , and the only thing we can be sure about is that we've never been able to predict the future. Otherwise we would all be wearing bubble hats to work , eating only a little vitamin pill each day , and making the sound of a dog barking on a cheap Sampler in our spare time.

Unfortunately, this is the sort of study that our leaders like to like at. Graphs , powerpoint presentations etc to help our future policies. They are unfortunately as good as it gets.

The worlds not a prefect place , never has been and never will. Immigration is needed if only to keep the ball up in the air and pay for all those future OAP pensions.

And to breed out miserable insluar scots.
30

The Genuine Mario Antoinette,

23/01/2008 12:01:30
Another thing that this study cannot predict or cater for is future EU expansion , and British decisions taken on which nationalsof those countries can work here (EEA) (remember Poland ?!).

Things can turn weird. Israel could be a member. Palestine could be. Turkey could be. Russia probably not , Ukraine possibly. Morocco ? dont tell me some of these arent actually in europe - i know that but it counts for nothing in the future.

Cause we just dont know.


31

Martha,

23/01/2008 12:55:09
Canada does tax non-oil workers-- nothing like taxing the only people who are creating wealth for you simply because they don't live in Scotland. Don't look to Canada for efficient, financially-sound, proactive solutions to problems. Increased taxation is always damaging to business and to individuals.
32

Martha,

23/01/2008 12:57:46
As for immigration: depends on who you let into the country. Right now you are bringing in fairly well-educated, hard-working Poles.

When the ultra-liberals take over, you'll import ignorant unskilled people who will be aliens to western society and will actually cost you money, because they'll be jobless but will need shelter,water, schools, police and fire, and other services. You'll be a small version of France.
33

Margaret L,

Edinburgh 23/01/2008 13:05:46
#41
A small version of France sounds very attractive. Where do we get these ultraliberals from so we can vote for them as quickly as possible?
34

Richard Lionheart,

23/01/2008 13:10:11
This report seems to indicate that the school age population of Edinburgh is set to grow by about 5%.

Perhaps someone should draw this to the attention of City of Edinburgh Council, as they are still working on the basis that the School population will decline, and are operating a policy of closing schools and selling off the ground on which they are built!
35

DanRE,

Edinburgh 23/01/2008 13:19:32
The forecasts of changes in working age population are of great importance to employers - especially those that rely mainly on the male part of the population for their workforce. On top of these demographic changes there are also continuing social changes for a falling proportion of economically active men and a rising proportion of economically active women.

For those interested there are interactive graphs by region here:

http://www.cte.napier.ac.uk/firrs/info/#tool/

This was prepared for the forest and timber industries, which are mainly based in areas where there is expected to be a population drain to cities like Edinburgh.
36

Kieron,

Stirling / Edinburgh 23/01/2008 13:20:39
This report does seem rather odd. Edinburgh's population is ageing the quickest and is also able to attract new people to live in the city due to the house prices. As the post above mentions, the overall projections are skewed as per usual

Typical report from the General Register Office - their projections change all the time
37

Tepid Mouse,

oN sAtUrN's RiNg 23/01/2008 13:25:56
Ha ha in 25 years time this will happen or that will happen. We don't know from week to week what is going to happen! Take this with a pinch of salt!
38

Dorna,

Groveland USA and sometimes Leith 23/01/2008 15:25:58
I just wanted you to know that after 14 years of using the Scotsman's website as my homepage, I have switched to the Herald today. I am so sick of the evolving proto-English and anti-Scottish posture of the Scotsman, it makes me sick to read it every morning. This is one of the most important times in Scotland's history, and the Scotsman now panders to all the self-doubt and missteps of the past. It is a time to make the good stuff work, make the bad stuff better, and hail the great things of this nation. These forecasts of population doom put me over the edge. Forget the sad and tired masses yearning to be free -- Scotland's population growth will attract people of intellect and optimism who value common sense and self-government, NOT people looking for an easy place to hide or trying to bleed cash out of dysfunctional businesses that serve no one. Please, Herald, don't disappoint me -- reflect back to us what is valuable and possible, with appropriate admonitions and not tombstone carvings.
39

Allan(handofgod137),

23/01/2008 15:56:16
Don't see how this is necessarly a bad thing, given all the "imaginary" jobs our leftist local authorities have created over the years. Aftyer all, Scotlands pre war population was 3,000,000, and our industries were far more labour intensive then than now. Perhaps the people producing this report fear that in a Scotland with a smaller population, their jobs would be deemed unnecessary!
40

Kieron,

Stirling / Edinburgh 23/01/2008 16:03:55
#47 - This paper went to the dogs a long time ago! I wonder how much longer it will have its readership!? It has become parochial beyond belief.

#48 - Very true! We shouldn't be looking to continually increase out population but to have a levelling out and sustainability.

Certainly a lot of us will not be around in 25 years time to see any of this (unlikely projections) come to fruition.
41

The Genuine Mario Antoinette,

23/01/2008 16:11:21
Before this "scottish daily mail" gets you wound up beyond belief, please realise its not all one way...

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/this-britain/emigration-boom-as-record-numbers-opt-to-live-abroad-462637.html
42

Eve,

Scotland 23/01/2008 16:49:59
I don't think the futrue can be pridicted espesally when it comes to population. Their is no way we could possibly now what companies (i.e. where all the jobs will be, so to speack) and where the people will want to live over the next 25.

I find it really difficult to read the map because of the black writening on grey background. I've mention this a few time and really don't understand why news papers and books insted in writing in this way.

Any way after sciwnting my eyes in curousity to make sure S.Lanarkshire was getting it comuptios. I'm Shocket that South Lanarkshires pouplation has been predicted to rise, most people I know from there would rather live in Glasgow, I personaly hate it there. Also with Dundee set to loes population is another shock as Dundee is a much better area to be in than South Lanarkshire, the people are so much more friendlyer and their concil hasn't donet anywhere near the amount of stuiped and daft things that South Lanarkshrire has done over the past 11years.
43

Mallard,

Borders 23/01/2008 17:06:52
Interesting photo of one of the buses on the route that does the same job as the outrageously expensive trams.

This story is portrayed by the daft lassie of a reporter as a revelation. The Registrar General produces these figures every year. Produce some graphs and you will see that the trend is not new.
44

kimba,

23/01/2008 17:07:51










The Backlash is Starting!



South of the Tweed - the backlash is starting

Alan Cochrane - Daily Telegraph 19 July 2007

A weekend in England is all it takes; all it takes to confirm that "they" are not going to put up with "it" forever. "They" are the English and "it" is devolution.

Now, you may think you've heard this before; after all, people like me have been hunting for the English backlash ever since the Scottish Parliament opened for business.

And, frankly, it has been a long time coming. But coming it most definitely is. I was talking to a senior MSP yesterday and his assessment was an accurate one. "They (the English) seem to have gotten really annoyed about this student fees business."

Last week's announcement by Fiona Hyslop, the new SNP Education Minister, that, henceforth, Scottish students - and only Scottish students - would be excused their back-end payments for attending Scottish universities, appears to have been the last straw south of the border.

Perhaps it's because of the manifest unfairness of it, certainly in a British sense, or maybe it's because it primarily affects their off-spring - anything that hits your kids always brings a more emotional response - but the English taxpayers appear to have taken more exception to this bit of business than much else that's happened in the last eight years.

And it has allowed them to add it to their long list of other "grievances" where the largesse of the devolved Scottish administration has given the residents on this side of the Tweed a better deal than those south if it. Things like free personal care for the elderly, free eyesight checks, free bus passes and free access to better drugs.

All of this on top of what is seen as a small army of Scots in the Cabinet and, from June 27, a Scot as their new prime minister, without, it seems, so much as a by their leave.

Some English commentators claim that the incoming Nat administration in Edinburgh i
45

kimba,

23/01/2008 17:09:14
is bringing forward new acts of discrimination as deliberate provocation. They're not. It's not provocation, merely recklessness.

The Nats are determined to shore up their vote wherever they can - at the taxpayers' expense, of course - and the students' fees decision will do them no harm at all with the youth vote. Ditto with the so-called "grey" vote, following the announcement that free personal care allowances are to be uprated. However, if in buying those votes, the Nats infuriate the English, then they're not going to lose sleep over it, now are they?

All of which made my trip to Birmingham recently all the more interesting. There, in the tranquil surroundings of the house where Elizabeth Fry founded what we now know as the Quakers, I came face to face with the other side of the devolution coin - the English nationalists.

Mind you, the leaders of the Campaign for an English Parliament are an incredibly mild-mannered bunch of revolutionaries. They are, also, extraordinarily polite.

In spite of all the slings and arrows that devolution has thrown their way, they bear no ill-will towards the Scots; they just want their own piece of the action. They acknowledge, as do most opinion polls, that the majority of Scots reckon that bones of contention such as the West Lothian Question should be addressed.

They have a long and hard fight on their hands, much of it down to indifference from the English media.

The reason I was in Birmingham was to make a programme about the demands for an English parliament for BBC Scotland, which is to be broadcast today.

Incredible as it may seem, there has not been even the slightest flicker of interest in this perfectly legitimate cause from the various arms of the BBC in England. Needless to say, however, one of the staunchest supporters of the Campaign for an English Parliament has been Alex Salmond.

I cannot imagine that this apathy from mainline broadcasters and newspapers will last, especially as every day o
46

kimba,

23/01/2008 17:09:54
of the Nationalist administration in Edinburgh appears to bring with it a new sense of outrage from the ordinary voters of England.
47

camster,

E Kilbride 23/01/2008 18:16:44
I have just left Glasgow for S Lanarkshire and I can tell you Eve it is a great place to be. Good links to everywhere Glasgow 30 mins, Edinburgh 1 hour and Manchester 2 1/2 hours. Only trouble seems to be that the whole world is moving here so traffic is terrible.

I am sure there are still urban diehards left in Scotland but the move to the suburbs is tremendous from Glasgow. Housing is better, crime is not a big problem, shopping is good and there are plenty things to do at the weekend. Yes Eve, many of the people here are diehard unionists but they dont bother anyone.

Maybe it is time for our politicans to wake up and realise that most Scots are not into big ideas but simple things like good roads and police on the streets.






48

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 23/01/2008 18:47:12
This website is just as skewed as Kimba's posts. Wrote a comment, posted and then had to log in again.

This must be on a timer to add click throughs. Either that or the webmaster should be a LibDem planner.
49

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 23/01/2008 18:51:30
What I was trying to say is that cities have a capacity and a shelf life. Perhaps a bit of transport infrastructure would make the population of Scotland outwith the central belt a little less isolated.

You really can't afford to do that with a population of 5 million folks.
50

Mr. Lachie Todd,

Edinburgh 23/01/2008 19:13:41
"They" [the English] will put up with "it" (Scottish and Welsh) Devolution? "They" have no other option!

Otherwise, Scotland will only be driven down the road towards Independence! "It" is their choice, whether "they" like "it" ot not!

51

Eve,

Scotland 23/01/2008 20:06:22
#56 camster: Well you haven't released yer mistake yet!!! They'll be a day that ye yearn to be else where!!!

I was moved to S.Lanarkshire against my own will by my parents when I was really young, 10year later and I start pining to live in Glasgow again and this disheartens went on for a further 10years.

Don't talk k**ch the crime in EK's town centre is the 5th worse place in Strathclyde police area and Green hills in EK was higher up on that survey (it was done about 1-1 1/2 years ago). Makes me laugh that when people move to the likes of Lindseyfield and Stuartfield, thinking there in a high class area BUT really their near the junkies and hard criminals in Greenhills.

Strathen is the nicest place in S.Lanarkshire (if ye can afford it and don't mind the buses stopping at 7.30pm) all the wee places are pleasant BUT the likes of EK, Hamilton, Larkhall etc aren't that great to live.

"many of the people here are diehard unionists but they dont bother anyone" I'm sorry you misunderstand me, that has nothing to why I hate S.Larkshire and everything to do with my experiences at school. And my negative feeling toward the local authority, which have developed over the years, due to their stupidity.
52

Eve,

Scotland 23/01/2008 21:00:18
#61 clarry: I won't!!!!

I've calimed down now and now on a sugar high!!!
53

SINGAPOREAN,

stonehaven 23/01/2008 22:05:48
The trouble with all these long-term predictions is that they can become inaccurate almost overnight. I remember there was a report in the 1960s (was it Buchanan?) which showed small changes in Aberdeenshire as the granite industry declined. Then someone found oil in the North Sea! It has taken decades for the infrastructure to catch up.
54

Banana Heid,

Ayrshire 23/01/2008 22:08:00
I'm forced to commute to Glasgow every day as there are no comparative jobs in Ayrshire. Wages outside the cities are absolutely scandalous and jobs are so scarce you have to commute. The benefit of this is often offset by the cost of travel. If it doesn't improve for me and my family we will be leaving the country forever and moving overseas to find work and a better life.
55

camster,

East Kilbride 23/01/2008 22:08:01
Eve, Greenhills is about a mile away from where I live so I know it well. I understand where you are coming from but things are beginning to move in the right direction here. There are a number of new housing developments which actually are of good quality. New schools, restaurants, health clubs and shops. Crime is down. My car insurance company tells me that my postcode is about average for the UK.

South Lanarkshire should be a great place to live, its location for business is probably the best in Scotland, the countryside is beautiful and the people on the whole are hard workers. Like many people I am glad that things have been shaken up politically as complacency had set in many years ago. The key as I said is for the politicans to understand what the people really want which I believe is not revolution but just better local government. The trouble is that our politicans as soon as they get power forget about their roots and get big headed.

PS You mean Strathaven

56

danielrober,

23/01/2008 22:09:13
Chill out Kimba. Spend more time on the internet and less time listening to the lonnies. There is no backlash in England. I'm in London, there is no backlash here. Why should there be, London has a Mayor.

Oh yes, if there's one thing i'm not worried about, its Quakers taking over the world.
57

camster,

east kilbride 23/01/2008 22:15:33
Eve as you can see East Kilbride crime is much better than Scottish average.

East Kilbride crime statistics
Review and compare latest crime statistics for East Kilbride with FindaProperty.com.
Police Force
Strathclyde, South Lanarkshire
Population
305,410
Number of households
131,065

Offences, Per 1000 Population Locally, Nationally
Robbery 163 .53 1.85
Theft of a motor vehicle 700 2.29 4.04
Theft from a motor vehicle 1014 3.32 9.56
Sexual offences 190 .62 1.17
Violence against a person 5051 16.54 19.97
Burglary 782 2.56 5.67

58

John B Dick,

23/01/2008 23:54:38
#22 Dave from Barra

Immigrants breed. I bet you could use some of their kids on the school roll in Castlebay. The elderly are increasing. It's been that way before in Lewis when the 1914 - 1918 war losses, the Iolaire and the 1919 influenza pandemic left an excess of elderly and it remained that way as the economy caused outward migration of the young who came home to die on the croft with the NHS having paid their taxes in another country for decades.

A lot of really stupid islanders think they have a right to get a job anywhere in the world, would deny the incomer from another culture - say Inverness - the opportunity of employment in their island and want inward migration into the UK stopped.

The reason they are stupid is that all the bright ones have been emigrating for generations. Can you see how that works? No?

Get your carer to explain it to you.
59

I'mallymax,

Orwellian nightmare; living in dundee. 24/01/2008 21:11:31
#34, if you don't agree with Wallace and Churchill then why is dundee's population dropping like a stone?

And if you say they're killing each other in the streets, then I would have to agree with you as you actually live there.

As far as the two universities is concerned, one is a former technical college, and the other is dropping down the ladder of best university places in the UK.

Having the amount of students you cite, then dundee is in worse condition than I thought; less families, and less working people settling in the place!

Ps, dundee is colloqially english in its people's nature. That's why William Wallace cursed it.
60

Jed Zeppelin,

Dundee 26/01/2008 01:22:07

I'mallymax ...dont talk utter rot - Dundee is no worse off than any other Scottish city and despite your bleak outpourings, Dundee is actually a good place to live and work.
The city has improved no end over the past 10 years and that is why i was happy to come home home again. Yes it has it's shortcomings, but so does everywhere. Historically, Dundee has been run down by all and sundry and that 'fine' tradition seems to continue to this very day. Enjoy Your Ignorance.

 

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