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Trump alters golf resort plan 'in response to green protests'



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Published Date: 15 May 2008
DONALD Trump has made his first apparent concession over controversial plans to build his £1 billion golf and housing resort on an environmentally sensitive stretch of the Aberdeenshire coast line, it emerged yesterday.
The Trump organisation has submitted what have been described as "indicative" plans for a revised layout of the championship course, which would be laid out on part of a protected site of special scientific interest (SSSI) – the issue at the heart
of environmental objections to the scheme.

The tycoon's organisation claims the changes have been made in response to concerns about the course's impact on the protected sand dunes at the Menie estate site.

But objectors yesterday dismissed the revised layout as a token gesture and a "small-scale tweak" to the original plans. The back nine holes of the championship course would still be laid out on the SSSI site, but in a different configuration.

George Sorial, the Trump executive in charge of the development, said last night: "We have previously stated 90 per cent of the SSSI will remain untouched by our development and this remains the case.

"Our amended indicative plans demonstrate we have significantly reduced the amount of stabilisation required, therefore reducing the impact on the SSSI.

"We intend to explain each detail concerning our submission and will respond to any questions during the public local inquiry."



The SSSI covers 203 hectares. The Trump organisation revealed earlier this year that the original plan would involve 20 hectares of dunes being stabilised, using indigenous marron grass, while 183 hectares of the site would be left alone.

The organisation has refused to give any details of the changes to the area of sand dunes which will now be affected by the revised layout.

A letter from Colin Bell, an official at the Directorate for Planning and Environmental Appeals, sent to the various parties at the Menie inquiry, states: "It appears to (the inquiry reporters] that the new layout differs materially from the previous one, and that this may have implications for the environmental effects assessed in the environmental statement and supporting documents."

Last night, however, environmental campaigners insisted that while the revised plan included a change in the layout of some of the holes on the golf course, there would only be a "marginal reduction" in the area of sand dunes which will have to be stabilised to help form the course.

A spokesman for RSPB Scotland said: "We think this amendment is merely a small tweak to try and change our position on the fact that we have always said we are not happy with any development on the SSSI.

"This alteration doesn't change that situation."





The full article contains 452 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 14 May 2008 9:46 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Donald Trump
 
1

McGinty,

15/05/2008 00:38:26
What about the luxury housing? Is that being altered?
2

Beth Boyle,

NY 15/05/2008 02:51:19
Send him hame he is nothing but a snake oil salesman. You will be so sorry if you let him build I promise you! He will not do any good for you only for himself.
3

Son of Loki,

The Dark Side 15/05/2008 03:50:35
Why does Scotland need another golf course anyway? Haven't we got enough of them already?

Why do golfers feel the need to dress so awfully?

Someone tell me please why Scotland wants trump to do this thing? Wont that be another huge tract of land coming under foreign control?

Will Trump's ownership make the golf course a legitimate military target for Al Queda?

Fffffffffffffforget it

Stay alive people, it's the only way to live

Loki Jnr
4

DSA,

USA 15/05/2008 04:12:55
I agree with Beth - She's right !

$nake
Oil
$ale$man

$0$

It will be nothing but a playground for the rich....

The Beatles were correct when they sang "Can't Buy me Love"






5

Tatties ower the side,

Johannesburg 15/05/2008 05:57:02
#1 to #4 . If you guys had seen the bleak and desolate place where the proposed golf estate is to be built you would agree that any attempt to change it would be an improvement!!!!!
6

Cappo Del Monte,

15/05/2008 06:31:43
#5

I have been there and its lovely, as 1-4 say, why do we need another golf course.
This is just his fly way to build hundreds of expensivse holiday homes etc to sell to the rich and sod the locals.
Trump off wiggie, at least be a man and show the world ure as bald as a coot
7

DSA,

USA 15/05/2008 06:34:43
#5 Tatties

I truly understand the point you make.... - however...

There can be a natural peace and calm in nature - away from the crazyness of corporate exploitation and unnecessary complexities of this world.

Such places need to be preserved in my opinion.

Besides - it would just become a playground for rich arrogant oil executives and crooked arrogant politicians while the rest of us struggle to get by....

Trumps ego has more than enough money already...

He is used to controlling people and getting what he wants.

His main interest is 'green" and I am certainly not referring to greens on a golf course. I refer to the green paper$ in his wallet.....

I may support the seagulls - but that does not make me gullible...

8

Rulesbutnotrulers,

Federation, not separation 15/05/2008 07:15:54
A housing scam is a housing scam is a housing scam.

Golf is the shaky peg on which the project hangs.

Go and see what's happened at Forgan, by St Andrews if you want to see the future of this site. Ugh.
9

fred bloggs,

Edinburgh 15/05/2008 07:53:25
'Marron grass'? Do they mean marram grass?
10

overton,

balmedie 15/05/2008 07:58:22
What's this got to do with the pompous buffoons in the RSPB?

The sooner this project gets the green light the better.
11

livilion,

livingston 15/05/2008 08:10:11
Why is it that of all the protesters against this project so few of them are locals, do they know something you don't?
12

livilion,

livingston 15/05/2008 08:18:51
What is likely to happen in January gales to dunes which have not been stabilised by planting these grassaes?

How natural is this site, ie who planted the marram grass that protects these dunes as they are now?
13

Phil C,

15/05/2008 08:23:44
#2 Beth

I think you're mistaken. I don't think he's ever sold snake oil. If I'm not wrong, he's a property developer. He might even make some money out of it...shock horror! He may look a bit 'oily' and he's got stupid hair, but hey, we can't all be oil paintings! He may sound a bit like an extra from Dallas, but hey, we can't all sound like the Queen (thank god)!

He wants to invest many £millions in developing a small barren area (with concessions apparently) in the middle of a big barren area, creating work, recreation and housing. The resident wildlife are perfectly able to fly or walk next door, or even adapt to the new landscape.

I would expect some opposition from the greenies, but the attempt at gaining some poliitical mileage out of this by the Labour party and some other unionistas has been nothing short of a disgrace to our country, and may have caused permanent damage. We need to get on with this project now.
14

livilion,

livingston 15/05/2008 08:29:41
13 Phil C
Second that.
Wasn't it First Minister Joke McConnel who flew out to Trump Tower to press the flesh with the great man himself and encourage him to proceed with his planed development?
Anyone got any idea what the attention span is of a monkey wearing a red rosette?
15

Jings Crivens,

15/05/2008 08:52:44
I wonder has ‘Cavalier Salmond’ received his instructions from Trump that this time he has to get the planning application through?

Golf courses, once completed, are fairly insular communities and will have little economic benefit to the surrounding area. Only Trump will benefit from the profits generated by the housing, club and green fees and the local community will get the low paid, low skilled domestic and gardening staff required to support it
16

Phil C,

15/05/2008 09:02:27
Jings Crivens indeed. Your views are narrow-minded and insular...and wrong.
17

gshughes,

Newcastle 15/05/2008 09:14:58
It is interesting that initially Donald Trump said that he wouldn't appeal if turned down for planning, and that he wouldn't change his proposals. He has now done both. How can anyone trust anything he says ?
18

Melly,

Sussex 15/05/2008 09:23:58
#7 DSA
Scotland has thousands of miles of coastline -it has the longest coastline in the EEC by a country mile. You don`thave to go far to find peace and solitude for goodness sake !!
19

Miss H,

15/05/2008 09:24:39
Am I the only one who thinks that it is up to the people of Aberdeenshire to decide whether this goes ahead? The vast majority of the elected representatives in the area support the proposal. Polls show that 80% of local people support the proposal.

I personally don't like Trump or the way he operates but since I don't live in the area I don't have the arrogance to try and tell the locals what they should think.

It's really up to them and I suggest that their wishes should be respected even if you don't agree with them.
20

Phil C,

15/05/2008 09:31:04
#17 gs

Have you ever heard of doing business, debate or compromise? Use your noodle instaed of sitting on it.

21

Jonesy,

ferraway 15/05/2008 09:32:29
#9 Not marron grass but moron trump grass, specially developed by a bald heied disgraced american money grabber.
22

Ugly George,

Edinburgh 15/05/2008 09:34:13
18 Melly
Sorry to be somewhat pedantic with some info :
Coastline of Scoland 11803 km
Coastline of Greece 13676 km
23

Tweedmouth,

Coldstream 15/05/2008 09:39:57
19 Miss H
"Am I the only one who thinks that it is up to the people of Aberdeenshire to decide whether this goes ahead?"

Well, if you believe that UK and European PLANNING LAW can be decided by a swell of local populist 'opinion' you are profoundly wrong. The site in question is a SSSI - a 'Site of Special Scientific Interest' - which means it has been designated BY LAW to be of irreplaceable wildlife value. That is the staus quo; you can't change that, Aberdeenshire COuncil can't change that, neither the Scottish not the UK govt can change that. If, for example, Aberdeenshire ploughed head and forced this plan through - ignoring the law - the Scottish givt would be forced to step in to protect the SSSI. If they failed to do so the UK govt would be forced to step in. If they both broke the law by allowing development on this rare site, Europeean Law - which transcends both Scottisha and UK Law - would step in to enforce the protection of this natural area.

So to answer your question - you may think that it is 'up to the people of Aberdeenshire to edcide' but you are simply wrong. That's why planning statutes exist - the Green Belts around most cities would not exist if it were left to local politicians and their parties to vote on whether development should take place there.
24

Deeside,

Scotland 15/05/2008 10:01:07
You should ask the people of Helensburgh how much revenue the exclusive Loch Lomond golf club brings into the town during a big competition - or at any other time...remembering it is just around four miles from the town...... its zero! The rich either fly in directly, or bye-pass the town travelling to or from the golf club...

They cause congestion on the roads and spoil the beauty of the Lochside with their absolute disregard for the national park and countryside in general. No money is ever spent by visitors to the club in local communities.

Very few locals are employed - oh actually I knew of a person once who was employed as a general hand there - he was paid the absolute legal minimum wage and the conditions were appaulling!

So, residents of Aberdeenshire you are kidding yourselves if you believe there is going to be any money in it for you - cos there aint! Incidently, just a few short miles in the other direction from Loch Lomond golf club there is one of the most socially and economically deprived areas of the Scotland - Renton - it certainly hasn't had any economical or other positive benefits there from the golf club - the average family still live well below the poverty line in that area - the golf course hasn't made a jot of difference to that!

Those of you who think Trump will bring a windfall of cash and other benefits to the area should take time to ask those living near to Loch Lomond golf club to see how much of the money that goes through that place has found its way into local economies before welcoming this grotesque plan of Trumps!
25

Koffindodger,

Edinburgh 15/05/2008 10:40:40
24 Deeside

I find it hard to believe that such a large construction project won't benefit the locals at all.

As for "knock on" benefits to the local community, thats perhaps a more complex issue than your anecdote about your acquantance who worked a minimum wage level job for (unsurprisingly) a minimum wage would suggest.
26

brownlie,

15/05/2008 11:46:09
24 Deeside

Presumably Cameron House imports food, drink etc and does not source locally. Presumably they can also get chefs, hotel managers, green-keepers etc to work for them on the minimum wage. The golf course I belong to would be delighted to hear that such people still exist. Last time I went to the Scottish Open Helensburgh was absolutely crowded but again, presumably, they did not buy anything.
27

Number 6,

Germany 15/05/2008 11:56:19
Stop your whinging and inverted snobbery. 3 attempts have been made to scupper this investment, that despite it once being a Labour project as they cow-towed to trump. Now of course, because the SNP are
taking the lead , it is suddenly a terrible idea.

Pathetic , and I can assure you Trump is going no-where. He is used to dealing with "Rent a mob" , and likes nothing better than getting one over on them.
The more you moan the more determined he will be to succeed. Get over it, in fact go book a round, I've heard it's lovely round there.
28

Miss H,

15/05/2008 12:52:01
23 In the first place all laws can be changed. In the second place if things were as clear cut as you believe the application would never even have passed the first hurdle. If the leader of Aberdeenshire Council thinks the application is competent then so does his officials. If you know better I suggest you contact them not the Scotsman. In any case the SNP Government has quite rightly referred the application to an independent inquiry and I would hope everyone will accept their findings.
29

McGinty,

15/05/2008 13:12:50
In this case, the average Northeasterner doesn't appear to know enough about economic or social development or environmental science to be able to make an informed choice. Which is why in a democracy we vote for elected officials to vote on these things but when they don't vote as expected, the public gets upset. Yet these officials get slated for doing what they're appointed to do? My guess is that Martin Ford will be vindicated, and not only that, more dirt on Trump and co. will be uncovered, and then public opinion may well change. Meanwhile the Gordon Gekkos press on with their commercial developments but how many council golf courses, football pitches, tennis courts are built for every new housing development? We get upset when thugs run wild in Manchester. We should be upset when thugs run wild in business suits, Stasi gear or golf outfits.
30

dadbob,

Dunkirk 15/05/2008 13:37:14
tatties, what is wrong with bleak and desolate? and is a golf course really an improvement?
31

Black Beard,

15/05/2008 13:49:31
3 Will Trump's ownership make the golf course a legitimate military target for Al Queda?

As has been demonstrated Scotland is already a target of Muslim hate, legitimate or not.
32

Number 6,

Germany 15/05/2008 14:07:29
#29 "More dirt on Trump" ?. To go with what dirt exactly ?.
33

Miss H,

15/05/2008 14:24:22
29 Yes what do these north easters know? You tell them what they should think now - its for their own good. Silly people that they are.
34

McGinty,

15/05/2008 14:47:50
#33 I said appear to know, or if they do, they're not explaining it to my poor intellect. I certainly respect their wishes, as I respect the wishes of any ill-informed authority or majority or cheeky character.
35

McGinty,

15/05/2008 14:50:06
#29 Maybe you’re right, maybe there isn’t any dirt, or any dirt that there is, is completely unfounded, in which case, I salute his moral integrity.
36

Jings Crivens,

15/05/2008 15:12:55
16 Phil C

Is that it! where is your argument to show that I'm wrong?

Salmond has been called Cavalier over the golf course and where are the highly paid jobs going to come from.

if thats the best you can do on these comments, I would bother posting again
37

Jings Crivens,

15/05/2008 15:13:05
16 Phil C

Is that it! where is your argument to show that I'm wrong?

Salmond has been called Cavalier over the golf course and where are the highly paid jobs going to come from.

if thats the best you can do on these comments, I would bother posting again
38

Rulesbutnotrulers,

Federation, not separation 15/05/2008 15:33:46
The local yokels are determined to buy Trump's pig-in-a-poke. Problem is that Scotland belongs to all of us, so we all should have a say. It's a housing scam. Wake up and smell the brown envelopes before it's too late.
39

Number 6,

Germany 15/05/2008 15:50:14
#29 McGinty you are the one that said "More dirt on Trump and co will be revealed". I think you will agree that insinuates there has been some dirt discovered.

Or is it the usual Deny and Denounce , labour saturated
whinging. If not then please reveal what dirt has been already uncovered. I can hear you squirming from here.
40

McGinty,

15/05/2008 16:22:30
#39. Nothing to do with labour, what is this, paranoia or bl**dy inquisition or something? Why should I be squirming, it's only an opinion and a guess, probably a rant as well, but such is the nature of these threads, ranting seems to be the norm. Of course there's dirt, he's a ruthless b*****d, everyone knows that, and every ruthless b******d has done things he shouldn't have done, but that's not the point. It's just whether existing allegations of misdeeds will be deemed relevant, stick, affect his reputation and ultimately affect his plans. I'm not going to hedge my bets that he's dodgy. And I would guess anyone with insider information on the man, would have no hesitation in using it, just as he seems to have no hesitation in using his mouth to get what he wants. To date it would appear not, though (yet). His support seem to unconcerned about his faults. However, it is my guess that if there is dirt, it will come out at some stage. You've raised an interesting point though, because he seems to have covered himself pretty well, and that's no doubt why he's been as successful as he has been. But such is the world. (Btw, I'm quite happy to hear labour whinging, everyone else does it, especially the nats, they're the worst whingers on these threads, keeps everything in balance I suppose.)
41

overton,

overton 15/05/2008 17:31:50
38 Rulesbutnotrulers,

It is a bit much when clowns like you, Debra Storr and Martin Ford think they can decide for the electoral majority in Aberdeenshire.
Your contempt for the good people of the area is apparent from your comments in this blog.

For the record though, Mr Trump actually owns Menie and is offering to inject £1billion into the local economy by creating a couple of housing developments, a hotel and 2 golf courses.
The locals want the development and only a tiny minority are against it and that minority are against it for dubious and opinionated reasons.

I don't hear any 'eco people' screaming about the destruction of the moorland at Marywell for a massive dormatory development or for that matter destruction of the countryside at Portlethen - where's the RSPB's comment on those? What's Tweedbank or Martin Ford got to say about those?
42

Nomada,

15/05/2008 18:06:10
41 Overton - The reason you 'don't hear any 'eco people' screaming about the destruction of the moorland ... or ... destruction of the countryside at Portlethen' is that what you call 'eco people' don't (despite what you obviously believe) oppose developments without very good reason.

I and others have over the weeks given you precise details of the good reasons that apply at Menie. Aberdeenshire (as has been pointed out by Tweedmouth above, although he overstates the protection given by the SSSI - it has nothing to do with UK or EU law) is subject to the laws of the land the same as everyone else, and local plebiscites of the local plebeians have no legal or other status in this matter.
43

Melly,

Sussex 15/05/2008 18:29:10
#22 Ugly
Check it out. Including islands ( or are they not part of our country ?) Scotland has over 17000 kms coastline.
44

Huntly loon,

Aberdeenshire 15/05/2008 18:35:59
The SSSI ate Menie is not European status. It is insulting to the people of Aberdeenshire to be considered unfit to make a measured decision on this project. I would seek to remind those posting her that Aberdeenshire is regarded as the to place to live in the country. Its residents not only have the highest per capita incomes, highest educational attainment, e longest life expectancy and highest quality of life. When you lot out there match us in any of these respects we might think your comment worthy of consideration. Until then we will decide our own futures and that includes the Trump development if the 80% in favour are heard and get their democratic wishes.
45

Huntly loon,

Aberdeenshire 15/05/2008 18:36:53
I meant to type 'top place'
46

John Blackley,

Florida 15/05/2008 18:39:09
Donald Trump is the CEO of a company that has filed for bankruptcy twice - all the while paying The Donald a $2million annual salary.

Another of Trump's companies won a bid for the maintenance and operation of a public facility (ice or roller rink) in New York's central park. The company took care of the operation okay but forgot about the 'maintenance' part - resulting in the rink deteriorating to an unsafe condition.

Please watch this man very, very carefully and bring all of your skepticism to bear on his operations. The only people, it seems, who do not suffer from Trump's deals are Trump's people.
47

Agent 99,

15/05/2008 20:05:19
[44] Huntly: I think you're in a parallel universe. Possibly a small builder hoping this is the key to untold riches in a constructor's nirvahna.

Insulting or not, the people of Aberdeenshire do not get to make the decision, so the fact that some of them might be miffed is irrelevant.

We do not adjudicate planning applications by plebesite in this country, and despite Ms. H's brazen "laws can be changed" I think such a turn of events unlikely.

It was the representatives of the people of Aberdeenshire who got to make the decision. This has now been taken out of their hands by a somewhat contentious call-in process.

The rest of your dirge is totally off point. It smacks of the worst kind of elitism, just like the kind that goes with Eton & Harrow schooling in England. Personally, I like where I live, [a day out of Hawick is a day wasted]and respect your right to hold such an opinion about where you live. Lording it over the rest of as as some kind of subhuman dross that couldn't even begin to aspire to living in Aberdeenshire just shows how far from reality you really are.

A lot of places in the world hold golf to be some kind of elitist pasttime; so perhaps it would be poetic justice if the course was constructed there.

It's quite common for things to turn out not quite how they were proposed. Do you have confidence in the Trump organisation to deliver what was before the planners? Or don't you care enough to care? Or is your moniker simply an encrypted anagram of Sorial?
48

Beth Boyle,

NY (Trumpstate) 15/05/2008 20:26:40
Bleak and desolate is just what is needed for wildlife. Leave the land be and send Trump back to New York City where he can't do too much more damage. The man is a plague on the face of the Earth. Please Scotland learn from our mistakes, before its too late? Protect yourself from development meant only for the rich, please? You can learn much from the horrors in the US and save your coastline from outsiders and greedy developers! The time is ripe for the land to be treated with respect.
49

Jock Wilson,

15/05/2008 20:32:45
47,

On the first reading of your reply to Huntly Loon , I couldn't quite work out the motivation behind your overheated, inflated prose. But really, it is simple. You are just an old, unreconstructed leftie.

48
And,Beth, it is good of you to care for our souls in the way that you do, but your Cassandra act is wearing thin. You don't hail from Salem, by any chance?
50

Beth Boyle,

NY 15/05/2008 20:36:57
Jock you are an ignorant fool, put a sock in it!
51

Jock Wilson,

inverness 15/05/2008 20:41:58
Beth, they say that the British and the Americans are separated by a common language. Were you making a sartorial comment there or indulging your famous Algonquin wit?
52

acanthus,

15/05/2008 20:43:38
Bleak and desolate does not bring jobs unfortunatly.

I think you are the fool Beth. £1 billion is a massive injection into the local and national economy and the profile of Aberdeenshire would be greatly enhanced.

I would trust the acument of Trump over a bird watcher anyday..twit twit.

53

Beth Boyle,

NY 15/05/2008 20:44:40
Like I said, Jock, but a sock in it. Or should I say some hose?
54

Jock Wilson,

inverness 15/05/2008 20:47:32
Beth,

This is amazing! Have you ever read 87 Charing Cross Road, when a Brit and an American woman of a certain age get into regular correspondence and one thing leads to another?

It could be life imitating art. Of course I would make allowances for the difference in intelligence between us but perhaps you have money.
55

Beth Boyle,

NY 15/05/2008 20:56:33
I am 50 and married Jock. I have regular correspondence with a number of Scots I have met on line. The computer has made this a very common thing. I feel like The UK is the mother country although most Americans do not. I happen to want to see development stopped everywhere when it only benefits the wealthy. I live in a rural area and love Scotland because there is so much opened space. I have not read 87 Charing Cross Road. Should you care to know more about me look at my blog. I enjoy chewing the fat with anyone who has more than one brain cell. hillshepherd.blogspot.com
56

,

15/05/2008 21:11:20
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
57

Huntly loon,

Aberdeenshire 15/05/2008 21:11:47
I do find the responses to my post quite funny.
As for the democratic wishes of Aberdeenshire. They are well known. In that our council has recently voted to speak in support of Mr Trump's application at the forthcoming enquiry having the support of all the councillors of all parties and independents on the council (I don't think Labour has councillors in Aberdeenshire even under PR) with the exception of only 2 or was it 5 councillors, Ford and Storr being two of them, then it is clear that the democratic wishes of the electorate spoken through our council is making clear how Aberdeenshire feels on this.
As for me being a small time builder or an unreconstructed leftie, don't make me laugh. I am just an ordinary Aiberdeenshire Loon speaking for myself, but at the same time reflecting the opinions of my fellow citizens in these rural parts. We will be here long after the rest of you have moved on to discuss other matters. We are the folk who will have to live with our decision.
58

Jock Wilson,

15/05/2008 21:12:25
The fact that you are already married is a mere bagatelle. However, your championing of open spaces at any cost is the problem, you see, and our ardent love would cool quickly.

Scotland has suffered through the centuries for its open spaces. Scotland comprises too many barren hillsides and certain areas, for example Caithness, have become very fragile in recent times. For two hundred years the population of the Highlands - our most famous expression of open space - has declined and has only been arrested in the last decade due to European funding and the growth of Inverness.

I live here, not in America, and can appreciate that places like Aberdeenshire, lying above the populous and more commercially active Central Belt, could decline rapidly in the years to come. Certainly demographic projections are discouraging.

We cannot be expected to exist as a latter-day Brigadoon in the imaginations of foreigners who do not live here. In the end the Trump project will be built for good or bad.
59

Beth Boyle,

NY 15/05/2008 21:14:23
Wilson dearest you are far too much like George Bush I could not return you passion.
60

Jock Wilson,

15/05/2008 21:14:30
Huntlyloon,

I did not accuse you of being an unreconstructed leftie. I reserved that term for your opponent, Agent99
61

Andrew BOD,

Aberdeen/shire 15/05/2008 21:18:12
Nomada says..

"local plebiscites of the local plebeians have no legal or other status in this matter".

Whereas views of Patricians like yourself obviously carry more weight.

Your arrogance and contempt for those you see as lesser than you is incredible. You sir undermine the the true and fair opposition to the development and will only strengthen the resolve of the many who wish to see this succeed.


62

Andrew BOD,

Aberdeen/shire 15/05/2008 21:28:19
Beth Boyle says...

"Bleak and desolate is just what is needed for wildlife.."

We have thousands of miles of bleak and desolate. We could easily afford to develop a tiny proportion of our bleak and desolate acreage. And you know, wildlife will still come to the golf courses at Menie as it is to remain as natural as possible (i.e. bleak and desolate not like Augusta.) That's what Americans - like you - would expect to find in Scotland.

Currently at bleak and desolate Menie, they shoot the birds for sport. Golf will be much kinder on them.

63

Andrew BOD,

Aberdeen/shire 15/05/2008 21:37:29
47 Agent 99 says...

"We do not adjudicate planning applications by plebesite in this country, and despite Ms. H's brazen "laws can be changed" I think such a turn of events unlikely".

The way that major planning applications are handled HAS already been changed in Aberdeenshire.

No longer will 7 councillors with minority views and agendas decide the outcome of such an application. The whole council will take a vote on it. Indeed they did take an unofficial vote on it with a huge majority in favour. If that had happened last year, the bulldozers would have moved in by now.
64

Andrew BOD,

Aberdeen/shire 15/05/2008 21:53:07
40 McGinty

Offensive language, guesses, character assassination, assumptions, rants, insults, and belittlement of the 500,000 people who live in the North East.

Try writing something of substance instead of this unbalanced fiction.
65

Beth Boyle,

NY 15/05/2008 22:00:14
Ah but this issue goes for deeper than Trump or Aberdeenshire, Andrew. Once Pandora's Box has been opened the plague spreads like a blight and everyone will see every patch of unused land as a gold mine and before you know it you will live in an ugly world. I am no fool. I understand the need for people to make a living but this is not progress. The fact it is not so easy to put the cat back in the bag. Beware what you trade for short term gain. Scotland is very very lucky and it isolation as protected it from being exploited. Scotlands people have been shaped by the land and to change the basic nature of the landscape is to change the culture for ever. I am not some know it all American trying to tell Scotland what is best. I have just seen the worst of what happens when developers rape the land.
66

Jock Wilson,

15/05/2008 22:11:20
65,

Beth this is meretricious tosh. The thin end of the wedge argument is to your discredit. A golf course among acres of marram grasses is a fairly logical progression over here on the east coast.

We have been exploited for centuries, if you carry a torch for that sort of history. The people of the Highlands were driven out to make way for your great open spaces. The land was not raped as you say - really you must learn to tame your lurid prose - the people were.

I guess that once upon a time someone like you would have objected to the building of Venice, on those vast barren lagoons, ushering in the dawn of an ugly world.
67

overton,

balmedie 15/05/2008 22:25:48
42 Nomada,15/05/2008

Actually there is no good reason to prevent or modify this development and if you were honest, as an incomer, you would admit that you don't give a damn for the small portion of desolate dunes that are to be stabilized without any resultant effect on wildlife or the dune barrier and are actually playing a procedural game with the economic wellbeing of the North East just because you don't like a man you have never even met.

So please, go away back to where you came from or perhaps go and live in Coldstream where you and Tweedbigmouth can tell each other how morally superior you are versus the norm.
68

overton,

balmedie 15/05/2008 22:31:36
65 Beth Boyle,

Dear Beth,
Please go away and mind your own business.
Thank you
Overton
69

Andrew BOD,

Aberdeen/shire 15/05/2008 22:31:48
Beth

This is not for short term gain. This is one part of economic diversification for the NE of Scotland in response to the dwindling North Sea oil reserves. You see, Aberdeen is the UKs 'cash cow' in contributing a lion's share of the $90 billion annual oil revenues, but that won't last forever. Also, the Aberdeen area receives the lowest amount of public money from Government and so has to rely on private investment or strong local entrepueners to energise the local economy. Large oil companies are not interested in making any large long-term indirect investment in the local economy with the exceotion of wind turbines. Furthermore, tourism in our part of the world is largely untapped. Menie has drawn no eco-tourism to the North East and we rely on 'Royal Deeside' to be the biggest attraction. There is huge potential in tourism but we have no places for people to stay. Little hotel space or self-catering accommodation.

If we want this wonderful part of the world to survive economically, if my children want to live here, we have to make compromises which are not always easy. There are some beautiful parts of Scotland that are in economic decline because there is no employment in these areas. Take the people away and you remove the essence of that area.
70

McGinty,

16/05/2008 00:29:43
#40 McGinty

'Offensive language, guesses, character assassination, assumptions, rants, insults, and belittlement of the 500,000 people who live in the North East.

Try writing something of substance instead of this unbalanced fiction.'

Sir, ranting, guessing, belittlement of the 500,000 people who live in the North East I would plead guilty to but I'm a resident of the Northeast myself, and I doubt if they'll be belittled by much that I've said here, they're a pretty tough bunch and I think they can look after themselves. Offensive language, character assassination, insults - in the Trump's case, it's only a gut reaction, I wouldn't worry too much about that, he'll handle it. And if he shows himself to be a saint, and I really do hope he does come good, then I will be the first to acknowledge that. Maybe I'm a cynic, but Delorean, Maxwell, Archer spring to mind, although he seems smarter than them and that's what I find scary. As to substance and unbalanced fiction - it was a garbled rant, I admit, but we'll have to wait and see. People used to insult Stalin and get locked up for it. At least here we can insult publicly and if the cap doesn't fit anyone, then no one need wear it.
71

McGinty,

16/05/2008 00:34:22
The above should be to #64 Andrew BOD
72

Andrew BOD,

Aberdeen/shire 16/05/2008 01:22:14
70 McGinty

Thank you for your reply in accepting my reasonable interpretation of your post(s). I must, if anything, complement your honesty.

However, you seem to have an unhealthy obsession with the persona of Trump.

The identity of the developer, including his infamy will be entirely disregarded by the Reporter at the PLI. This has already been confirmed. You seem to be suggesting that he needs to be "saintly" before him and his development will be accepted in your eyes. No?
73

McGinty,

16/05/2008 02:47:49
I've conceded a few points, but I wouldn't say I've 'accepted' your interpretation. Why 'unhealthy'? It was a gut reaction, well not totally, as I mentioned - Archer, Maxwell, Delorean, Laker etc. We have enough of these already. From what I've read about the man, he sounds like a charlatan. He'll use religion, Miss World competitions, celebrity cult status and endless media manipulation to bolster his own ego. Every American I've heard on the subject has had their doubts. He's already made a lot of noise about the enquiry, he comes across as seeking to influence it. It's only an opinion anyway. Saintly? Just making a point - he's a businessman but on his past record he could probably change for the better. Why should I or anyone accept his development? Even if I am totally 'unreasonable' in my objections, obviously that's my prerogative. If I don't like him, 'cos I don't like him, then that's just how it is. This whole thing has been about spin, division, controversy, anger, manipulation, bullying on both sides, accusations of sleaze, belligerence, namecalling, pointscoring and ultimately profit for a select few, before there's a bulldozer in sight. And frankly, the supporters have come across as more likely to throw their toys out of the pram than the opponents. If good comes out of this, then I'll be happy, but it's not looking too good so far. If this is what we really want, so be it.
74

Schot,

16/05/2008 14:19:38
It seems to be the locals who are making belittling their area. Maybe if they are unhappy with where they live they could move to one of Trumps existing golf courses ? Scotland is a nation whose component soveriegnty and natural heritage cannot be sold off for personal profit in this manner. Not again at aleast. Freedom no longer just means independence from Westminster but from Washington. I live near a SSSI and if I poisoned that habitat for cash I would be arrested and condemned, justifiably. I hope the supporters of the project do emigrate in protest when it is finally stopped.
75

Andrew BOD,

Aberdeen/shire 16/05/2008 21:32:01
75 Schot

Your parting schot seems to be a trifle insulting, especially as you do not live in the area.

In response, I do not not wish to score any points. Just read the last paragraph of my post at 69.
76

Andrew BOD,

Aberdeen/shire 16/05/2008 22:47:29
73 McGinty

I certainly respect your prerogative to voice you opinion, however unreasonable it sounds. You do, however, have an open mind and a kind of optimism or hope about how the development could progress. So despite your misgivings about Trump the man, I am encouraged by your final stance.

I myself am no fan of corporate hard talk. Especially with a cheesy American slant to it. (Although Alan Sugar's Cockney wide boy talk is no better.) I do, however, realise the importance of such an investment. No such proposed investment for anything other than oil has been forthcoming to the North East and we need to consider it carefully before discarding it in the rubbish bin. You see Trump's development would not be the cornerstone of a large tourist business in the North East. But it would be a big start. Furthermore, if we were to reject it, we could wait for decades for an ethical investor to turn up on our doorstep. We would have given negative signals to any potential investor. By that time, people would be abandoning the North East and it's dying economy in their droves. Just like other parts of Scotland, the rural areas would be taken up by second homeowners and retirees from the South. Is that what should happen?

And what of Menie? I have lived within eight miles of it all my life (Ellon and Aberdeen.) It is not a place that is cherished by those who live here. Balmedie Beach? Yes. Forvie Sands?. Yes. Newburgh Beach? Yes. But not Menie. I've never been there in my life, nor have had any desire to go there. It is another empty place between Newburgh and Balmedie that no-one knew about until Trump bought the place. Now if he'd bought one of those 'cherished' places I spoke about, I would be the first to object. They are part of our heritage. Menie is not. In fact, I half expected it to become another landfill site North of Aberdeen.

One other thing. Much has been said about the SSSI. If you look at it in more detail, you'll
77

Andrew BOD,

Aberdeen/shire 16/05/2008 22:48:53
77 Continued...

One other thing. Much has been said about the SSSI. If you look at it in more detail, you'll see that the really important part is at Forvie. That's where you'll find the 'wildlife'. Not at Menie. Furthermore, an SSSI is not that sacred. The SSSI at Clashindarroch near Huntly was to be developed as a windfarm and the very Cllr Ford presided over the same I.S. Committee that gave it's consent. How strange.
78

celtic4,

USA 24/05/2008 00:12:38
#19 you are right! Aberdeenshire should be able to decide what is done with land there, and are fully capable of doing so.
I do not put people down whom I do not personally know, unless they make a clown of themselves like Beth has. Girl, you need to be quiet. You are just putting people down and in prcess demeaning yourself.
I do not personally know Mr. Trump, and I only believe half of what I read. And he may well be intent on improving the Aberdeenshire area. If so, then I say Congratulations Aberdeenshire! It is the people who are important, and I feel Scotland is my motherland because I am mostly Scot by blood. I have proof. And I love Scotland for its beauty and scenery and the friendly nature of the folk who live there. I will enjoy my trip over there, and I won't even meet Mr. Trump. haha

 

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