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1

subrosa,

21/11/2008 00:43:12
Nicola Sturgeon is absolutely correct on this for the moment. If she instigated a public enquiry right now then any improvements would be halted until the result of the enquiry was available - usually around 2 years.

Most of the public know now what causes c.diff and should know what they personally can do about it.

C.difficile has been around for generations. Now we have a better reporting system than ever before. Thus cases are coming to the public's attention.

You stick with ensuring improvements are being made Nicola and don't be bullied by the 'let's have an enquiry' labour party.

How I wish the labour party were that keen to have a public enquiry into the Iraq war where hundreds of our troops and thousands of innocent civilians have been killed or seriously maimed.

2

,

21/11/2008 00:55:34
Comment Removed By Administrator
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3

subrosa,

21/11/2008 01:31:27
# 2

Perhaps I'm being a bit slow, but I'm not getting Ian Bell's point in the Herald. Nicola Sturgeon hasn't hidden the fact that the report was forwarded to the Lord Advocate. Makes sense to me that she will wait to hear what's said from that office while she continues to impliment improvements.
4

walter,

21/11/2008 04:00:23
While in opposition the SNP called for inquiries, Labour were not keen to hold them.
Now that Labour are in opposition they are calling for inquiries and "shock" the SNP are not keen to hold them.
Hypocrites one and all.
To allow due-process to take place, why? due-process was flung out the window in the Trump affair so why hide behind it here.
5

Mercutio,

FALKIRK 21/11/2008 04:21:07
We know it and Ms Sturgeon knows it, there will be a public enquiry!
6

donald,

glasgow 21/11/2008 05:40:00
Labour are always calling for public inquiries in opposition. How about a public inquiry into Labour's Thatcherism?
7

John Cameron,

St Andrews 21/11/2008 06:48:02
C.Diff is the SNP's cunning plan to cull the geriatric problem in Scotland. Under the fragrant Nicola elderly Scots do not need to travel to Switzerland for a quick exit. They just need to book into their nearest Scottish NHS hospital. This is the one area where Scotland leads the world. Rejoice! Rejoice!
8

steve 1511,

aberdeen 21/11/2008 07:02:49
it is good that the babbling eejit ian gray broons puppet reminds us that the main reasons for c diff are down to his liebour sleaze and corruption partys past failure to build adequate modern hospitals and have systems in place to control c diff,labour had control in scotland for decades,now that the snp have invested to tackle and try and control this scourge,something his party failed to do for decades,this eejit trys to score petty political points from the deaths of people,typical liebour imbecile
9

john z,

edinburgh 21/11/2008 07:07:54
I echo the points of those above, that a public enquiry would delay improvements.

I can understand opposition parties saying there is a need for a public enquiry, but public enquiries take a looooong time.

What Sturgeon said, was that she decided to take action first, in order to stop people dying.

Action rather than talking. An innovative approach from a politician, and Sturgeon should actually be praised for doing so.

Maybe at some stage in the future a public enquiry may be useful, but right now Scotland should be grateful they have an SNP health minister in the Scottish Government who has taken action so quickly. Something Labour singularly failed to do in ten years of Scottish Government.
10

john z,

edinburgh 21/11/2008 07:11:42
Number 4

Are you suggesting that the Scottish Government did the wrong thing in allowing over 1 billion of inward investment from Trump, at a time when thousands are losing their jobs in Scotland every day of the week.

The Brown boom days are over, we are now in the boom bust, and as the brown economic mess worsens, Scots will be grateful for ANY new jobs.

Most people want jobs and don't necessarily give a fig for 'due process' that hinders employment.
11

All Politicians are the same,

Scotland 21/11/2008 07:20:27
Nicola Sturgeon has the command presence of an empty crisp bag, talk about light weight she should go back to her legal career.
12

bully wee alba,

Edinburgh 21/11/2008 07:28:18
“Nicola Sturgeon has the command presence of an empty crisp bag, talk about light weight she should go back to her legal career.”

What’s a “command presence”?

Stick to your day job.
I only hope it does not involve written communication.
13

,

21/11/2008 07:55:54
Comment Removed By Administrator
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14

gus1940,

Edinburgh 21/11/2008 08:38:23
Listening to Gray one would get the impression that Nicola Sturgeon is doing nothing to solve the problem of C Dificile and hardline unionist Maddox does nothing to clarify the situation.
15

Douglas,

Bathgate 21/11/2008 08:38:29
#12: What a strange comment. Command presence is an easily understandable phrase, unlike, if I may be so bold, your screen name.
To me it suggests bovine urine.
16

walter,

21/11/2008 09:11:38
#10
Are you suggesting that the Scottish Government did the wrong thing in allowing over 1 billion of inward investment from Trump.

Did I say that? "No" I have fully supported the Trump investment from the beginning.
I suggested that using due-process as an excuse not to hold an inquiry is a bit hypocritical when due-process in the rules and regulations that govern planning applications was not adhered to in the Trump case.
17

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 21/11/2008 09:18:13
Meanwhile Scottish Secretary Jim Murphy is more concerned about Strictly Come Dancing. You couldn't make it up !!
18

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 21/11/2008 09:25:02
#16 smee

You are referring of course to the politician of the year.

Suffering from your inferiority again smee? The need to put others down is your hallmark.
19

Spoot,

Third rock pool on the left 21/11/2008 09:28:44
The Scotsman subs are an absolute hoot: "Sturgeon .. the sole obstacle" indeed.

I'm surprised that they weren't able to shoehorn in some more fishy references.
20

Foresight,

By the Water of Leith 21/11/2008 09:31:32

Nicola Sturgeon is out of her depth as Health Secretary. She fails to perceive the real problem, which is the lack of effective management at patient care level. A new command structure at ward level is needed if the problem of C difficile is to be eradicated.
21

Alan B,

21/11/2008 09:31:42
#18 connaughtboy

And creating arguments about olympic football teams.
22

57vintage,

Keith 21/11/2008 09:32:41
#18

A tad harsh.

He was on a TV programme where the eejit who asked the question was entitled to a response. Given that Ms Sturgeon was also there and that she is the topic of this article, are you saying that that is her priority too given that she also responded?

If anyone was at fault surely it is the QT producer for allowing such frippery on what is normally an intelligent debating forum.
23

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 21/11/2008 09:34:51
How about a public inquiry into the Iraq war and Gordon Brown's seriously dubious handling of the LTSB/HBOS merger? Surely issues just as important as the C Diff outbreak?
24

Miss H,

21/11/2008 09:36:08
Actually Annabelle Goldie was making a different point to Iain Gray. She did not call for a public enquiry. She said that 'When hospital-acquired infections threaten, we must move from being reactive to being proactive.'

I agree with that and would say that is what Nicola Sturgeon has done. If she had called a public enquiry into the Vale of Leven it would still be going on. There would have been no report, no new infection control measures and no new surveillance measures would have been put in place in the Vale of Leven or anywhere else because we would still be waiting for the outcome of the publio enquiry.

Also I don't understand Iain Gray's point about having a public enquiry alongside a police investigation. There is a police investigation going on into the Vale of Leven scenario. Maybe technically there could be a public enquiry going on at the same time but what would the implications be for any criminal prosecution that ensued? Surely it would compromise it. I am a wee bit concerned that the publicity might be compromising it already.
25

Richard Lionheart,

21/11/2008 09:37:21
Words you would not hear Nicola Sturgeon saying.

“If Labour had taken action when this became a problem during Labour’s 8 years in office then it would not be a problem now.

It is a bit rich for Iain Gray to be making this a talking point now, when Labour left such a mess for us to sort out.

This mess stretches from under investment in School repairs and building, to under investment in road repairs in fact the whole fabric of our communities and indeed society itself. They even failed to attract jobs to Scotland and wistfully allowed them to go.

This is the reason the electorate said, we have had enough of Labour and their spin.

We will concentrate on bringing things up to standard, and we would hope that this would be the wish of the whole people.”

When Iain Gray makes a point about failure in Scotland, he should remember that these problems did not just commence the instant we had an SNP administration. After 8 years of Labour in Scotland we were much worse off as a country.

Surely we will not slowly forget that.
26

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 21/11/2008 09:39:26
#21 Foresight

A misnomer if I ever saw one.

Compared to Andy Kerr's performance in the post, Nicola Sturgeon's performance has been awesome.

I notice the posters like forsight (ha ha) fail to cack up their put-downs with any justifiable reasons for the attacks. I suppose trolls don't feel the need to do so.
27

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 21/11/2008 09:41:14
#22 Alan

Fact. Both Peter Mandelson and Jim Murphy seem to have an unhealthy interest in Strictly Come Dancing.

Discuss.
28

Miss H,

21/11/2008 09:42:01
21 What do you suggest?
29

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 21/11/2008 09:43:12
#23 57vintage

If you think I was a tad harsh, what is your opinion of this article? Or is "harshness" confined to only one side of the political divide?
30

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 21/11/2008 09:45:09
#29 Miss H

If you are expecting a sensible answer you may be in for a long wait !
31

Calum10,

21/11/2008 09:57:34
A recent investigation by BBC Radio 4 highlighted that the Public Inquiry system in the UK is fundamentally flawed and basically doesn't work.

The highlighted the example of child abuse. There have been over 70 public inquiries into the death of children since the 1980s ...... and yet children continue to die at the hands of their parents.

Those 70 inquiries cost tens of £millions and yet nothing has basically changed for children at risk.

A public inquiry into the C difficile related deaths at the Vale of Leven Hospital will probably happen, but there is an equal probability that despite the outcomes of a public inquiry that C difficile related deaths will continue to happen in hospitals.

At present public inquiries are a waste of money and valuable time, and it is money and speed of action that makes all the difference to children at risk as well as hospital patients.
32

G,

dundy 21/11/2008 10:14:09
Some quite amazing leaps of logic from the SNPites...Sturgeon blocks moves for a public enquiry and the SNPites say that the enquiry will block progress on making improvements!!
HOW WILL THEY KNOW WHAT TO IMPROVE IF THEY DON'T know what was wrong??? The initial enquiry was admittedly flawed so not knowing what was the main problem is seen to be an advantage - you couldn't make it up!
WHY WOULD HAVING AN ENQUIRY STARTED STOP the hospitals doing all the things they can do now???
33

TWC,

21/11/2008 10:22:22
33 G,dundy
This should not be political Whatever happened between Dec 2007 and today the process that was in place before that did not record C.Diff properly; ergo we don't know how bad it is.
The secret is to fix the immediate problem then (provided the Fiscal is ok) call an enquiry.

I want fiscal Independence not full independence but whatever we have NIcola Sturgeon has been a revelation.
She is Smart Honest and professional.
I'm sorry to say our New Labour counterparts a re not a patch on her.
Still not a single proposal since Wendy left
34

subrosa,

21/11/2008 10:31:34
# 21

Do keep up. A new ward staffing structure is underway in hospitals. Nicola Sturgeon instigated this a few months ago.
Don't you read quality papers?
35

subrosa,

21/11/2008 10:38:12
#33

So you're quite happy for a public enquiry to go ahead then, upon the results, the Scottish government take action?

Don't you realise that a public enquiry will take between one and two years? Are you suggesting we can wait that length of time before taking any action?

There has been immediate action take when this urgent review was called and now the result is here. It may not be perfect but it has achieved the faults at one particular hospital - Vale of Leven. I would be very interested to see how many cases of c.diff there were prior to the improved recording system brought in later in 2007. I suspect it was far more than the number stated in 2008.
36

noswod,

Honestas 21/11/2008 10:40:06
Screeming Banshies tae ye aw. Dinny go into Hospital yerll be deed quickly. Why should we have tae clen hospitals any wa it wid disupt us frae having meetings. As frae that Dr Lister insisting we clean oor hands and feet amd wear masks and spray stuff all over the place, anybody would thing that a hospital was a Victorian operating theater ! Iam awff back tae fill in my reports frae the Goverment, we dinny dae cleaning here.
37

Miss H,

21/11/2008 10:57:26
33 Are you serious?

Do you actually understand anything about this?
38

Scunnert,

21/11/2008 11:02:06
New Report Shows High C-difficile Infection Rates in U.S. Hospitals

Last update: 1:19 p.m. EST Nov. 11, 2008
AUSTIN, Texas, Nov 11, 2008

First Large Scale Study Finds 73% Are From Health Care Facilities

Consumers Union called on hospitals today to take more aggressive steps to protect patients from Clostridium difficile (C.-diff.) infections in light of a new report showing that they are much more common than previous estimates had indicated. As the rate of hospital acquired C.-diff. infections has jumped in recent years, an increasing number of patients have developed antibiotic-resistant strains of the infection that are more difficult to treat and more deadly.

The report released by the Association for Professionals in Infection Control and Epidemiology (APIC) found that 13 out of every 1,000 patients or approximately 7,178 inpatients on any one given day were infected or colonized with C.-diff (94.4 percent were infected). The rate is 6.5 to 20 times higher than previous incidence estimates that were based on more limited data. The report estimated that on any given day these infections cost between $17.6 million to $51.5 million and kill between 165 and 438 patients.

39

Alan B,

21/11/2008 11:07:55
#33 G

"HOW WILL THEY KNOW WHAT TO IMPROVE IF THEY DON'T know what was wrong???"

That is daft. You do not need a public inquiry to know what is wrong. Public inquiries are good to prevent government cover ups but not particularly good to identify problems quickly and deal with the problems.



40

Scunnert,

21/11/2008 11:08:53
Reporting C. difficile rates in hospitals

October 30, 2008

Updated Clostridium difficile associated disease (CDAD) rates of all hospitals are being published today on the Ministry of Health and Long-Term Care’s public website.
About this reporting tool

For the first time ever, CDAD rates were published on the ministry website last month.

Ontario is requiring all hospitals to monitor and report CDAD in their facilities so the most appropriate infection prevention and control measures can be put in place.

Hospitals will use this information to ensure they’re maintaining the highest possible standards of patient safety.

September 2008 data

For the period covering September 2008, there were 363 cases of C. difficile associated disease found among the 228 hospital sites in Ontario. The provincial CDAD rate was 0.44 per 1,000 patient days. This is only the second time hospitals reported CDAD rates and it will take time to establish a trend.
41

Scunnert,

21/11/2008 11:28:09
Clostridium difficile is a problem in hospitals across the world. Outbreaks are associated with the overuse of antibiotics, sometimes used to control MRSA, another hospital acquired infection, and poor sanitary practices. Contracting out hospital cleaning services is a major factor in the spread of this infection and demonstrates the failure of free market economics to serve people's needs.
42

57vintage,

Keith 21/11/2008 11:32:00
#30

I commented on your view of Murphy being more concerned with an non-issue when everyone who was on Question Time last night commented, including the Health Secretary.

As health is a devolved issue, Murphy has no concern in it as a Parliamentary issue, being a Westminster MP.

My view is that the mini spat is all too typical of hypocrisy on of Gray for ignoring the fact that this is not an issue exclusive to the current administration although the deaths in question occurred this year, ie on Sturgeon's watch.

As always, it seems that anything is up for grabs when it comes to making party political points, but this is not confined to Labour.

As I've said before, a plague on both their populist free marketeer grey suited careerist houses. Neither party gives me much I can vote for with a clear conscience.
43

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

21/11/2008 11:40:45
#44 You are right - if Labour had been in power the roles would have been reversed.

Gray and Sturgeon are both hypocrits.
44

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

21/11/2008 11:42:23
#37 What's wrong with taking action now based on the available information but also having a public inquiry?

The two are not mutually exclusive.
45

Miss H,

21/11/2008 11:46:41
The difficulty with situations like this is that it is quite complex. We all understand the importance of hand washing, proper cleaning and so on. But I think there is more to it than that. I thought what Nicola Sturgeon said about the prescribing of antimicrobials was interesting. Without having any medical knowledge it seems to me that there is a big issue with prescribing of antibiotics, some people think there has been over prescribing of antibiotics and as a consequence they are becoming less and less effective, in fact they may be reducing peoples’ natural immunity. I wonder of that is what we are looking at. The proposal to have 100% single bedded rooms in new hospitals seems a bit ominous. We can all understand why people with infectious conditions need to be isolated from other patients but why would all patients need to be effectively isolated? Maybe I am reading too much into this but I can't help wondering why they might think it necessary.
46

Miss H,

21/11/2008 11:50:43
46 There is nothing wrong with the idea of having a public enquiry and Nioola Sturgeon has not said she is against it. She has said she wants to wait for the police investigation to finish, that seems fairly obvious to me. Don't really see how a public enquiry and police investigation looking at the same thing could run in parallell.

The issue with the report that was done is slightly different. Labour are naking the point that it was not a very in depth report. No it wasn't because it was specifically commissioned to be short and sharp and make recommendations which could be implemented immediately. And the changes it recommended have been implemented immediately. Only and idiot would think that was a bad thing surely?
47

Scunnert,

21/11/2008 12:05:38
47 Miss H, 21/11/2008 11:46:41

In the case of MRSA doctors have little choice but to use antibiotics:

"In the hospital, because of multidrug resistance, intravenous vancomycin has become the drug of choice. Except for sporadic cases of vancomycin-resistant MRSA (VRSA), all MRSA are susceptible to this antibiotic. Unfortunately, the increasing use of vancomycin threatens to increase the VRSA problem."

The use of these antibiotics is what causes C Dif to become a problem:

"Your body has lots of "good" and necessary bacteria. It also has some "bad" or dangerous bacteria. Clostridium difficile is a "bad" bacteria. Fortunately, when you are healthy and not taking antibiotics, the millions of good bacteria in your system keep the c - diff under control and in smaller numbers. However, when you take an antibiotic, the levels of good bacteria are reduced down to a smaller number. If your c-diff is strong and doesn't get killed by the antibiotic along with the good bacteria, then it is possible that the c-diff will overpopulate inside your intestine or colon. When this happens, you may get the illness called clostridium difficile colitis."

Now that we have community acquired MRSA and C Dif, isolating all hospital patients seems prudent - especially as new, highly virulent infections are appearing with little or no warning - SARS for example.
48

salmondella,

UK 21/11/2008 12:14:34
This is a serious issue and you cannot blame Gray for getting stuck into the NATS -that's his job and why he was elected as leader. Sturgeon's job is to improve our health. The fact that she appears pretty innefective at the moment is being noted by the electorate.
49

Miss H,

21/11/2008 12:29:40
50 Yes of course it is serious but I can blame Iain Gray.

If you look at what Gray says his sole argument is that there ought to be a public enquiry into the Vale of Leven outbreak.

He has nothing to say about any of the measures which Nicola Sturgeon listed yesterday which she has brought in to combat hospital acquired infections like tripling funding to tackle infections; setting targets to reduce C difficile (which Labour did not do); providing extra funding for antimicrobial prescribing policies, raising hand hygiene performance requirements; toughening up cleaning standards; empowering senior charge nurses; establishing an independent inspectorate that can carry out random inspections of hospitals; banning further privatisation of cleaning contracts and ensuring that all new hospitals will be 100 per cent single rooms.

Labour could have done any or all of those things when in power, they didn’t. They have suggested no further concrete actions – as for example Annabelle Goldie has – all they do is go on and on about having a public enquiry.

Presumably you support a public enquiry now. I would be interested in that case if you could point to any instance where a public enquiry has been held concurrently with a police investigation?
50

Scunnert,

21/11/2008 12:29:50
HHS Pandemic Influenza Plan Supplement 4 Infection Control

http://www.hhs.gov/pandemicflu/plan/sup4.html
51

salmondella,

UK 21/11/2008 12:36:33
#51 Miss H -an excellent post and I am at one with you. However, the fact is that it is now the SNP in power and we all have to ensure that they are doing their very best - the jury is still out on that one, but time will tell.
52

Scunnert,

21/11/2008 12:36:42
Scientists today also have found that the virulent H5N1 flu virus profoundly short circuits a person’s immune system, especially people with healthy systems.

But what's of particularly grave concern is that a terribly weakened immune system is vulnerable to aggressive bacterial infections like the virulent strain of Staphylococcus aureus that’s been linked to seasonal influenza deaths and has developed a resistance to many of the antibiotics used to treat it.

Last fall, the "Journal of the American Medical Association" (JAMA) reported that a strain of methicillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus (MRSA) that has been spreading across the country is causing more life-threatening infections than public health authorities had thought, and killing more people in the US each year than AIDS.

The revelation that a pandemic strain of influenza could hasten the spread of antibiotic resistant bacterial infections like MRSA in flu patients is especially disturbing, and presents an entirely new set of challenges for pandemic preparedness planners.

HSToday.us earlier reported that hospital-acquired infections (HAIs) like MRSA that kill an estimated 90,000 to 100,000 Americans each year during routine hospital stays could be expected to run rampant during a health crisis in which tens of thousands – or more – persons require emergency medical care under what will likely be less than sterile and sanitary conditions. Conditions most authorities agree are primarily responsible for the transmission of HAIs like MRSA.

HAI infections can cause serious illnesses and, in severe cases, death. Indeed, infectious diseases are a major cause of illness, disability and death, statistics and authorities point out.

Consequently, "we have to realize that it isn't just antivirals that we need" during a pandemic, said Dr. Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases and coauthor of one of the studies published in the "Journal of Infectio
53

Scunnert,

21/11/2008 12:37:20
Consequently, "we have to realize that it isn't just antivirals that we need" during a pandemic, said Dr. Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases and coauthor of one of the studies published in the "Journal of Infectious Diseases."

"We need to make sure that we're prepared to treat people with antibiotics," Fauci stressed.

“Yes, of course bacterial infection following influenza should be of concern, and antibiotic resistant bacteria of even greater concern,” Dr. Graeme Laver told HSToday.us.

http://www.hstoday.us/content/view/4766/149/
54

Observer. 1,

Glasgow 21/11/2008 12:37:44
That is a ridiculous statement by Labour that Nicola Sturgeon is ''hiding behind due process''. You cannot have a public enquiry running concurrently with a Police investigation, should the PF bring any chargers it would become sub judice, what are they on about ?

They must think we're daft.

This is the price people have paid for the semi privatisation of the NHS.
55

57vintage,

Keith 21/11/2008 12:40:42
#51 Miss H.

Of course he had nothing to say about positive measures that have been taken - partisan loyalties and concomitant actions do not permit this. Criticising these would have been like criticising the marvellous things in life like your mother, her broth and brosey mean-spirited centre halves called Psycho.

Had the boot been on the other foot, the same poor quality theatrical 4 legs good 2 legs bad ponts-scoring charade would be taking place.

56

Scunnert,

21/11/2008 12:41:12
56 Observer. 1,Glasgow 21/11/2008 12:37:44

"This is the price people have paid for the semi privatisation of the NHS."

Aye - you got it in one.
57

Miss H,

21/11/2008 12:41:20
Scennert please stop scaring us.
58

Miss H,

21/11/2008 12:43:51
57 I'm not suggesting he would have criticised them - I'm suggesting he could have said well you've done this, how about doing that? As Annabelle Goldie did.

That is fair enough. It is the job of opposition to push governments always to do more.

What is bizarre is when the opposition focuses on what is really a side issue.
59

Resolutions,

21/11/2008 12:54:11
Observer and others - been offline a while, but how do the folk yelling for a Public Enquiry intend to deal with the infections which are occurring in hospitals as the Enquiry goes about its business, not to mention the fact some some details are already in police hands?

Surely to get some action in place to reduce infections NOW is preferable to having everything suspended while the Enquiry goes on and more deaths(needless) because action could not be taken because of due legal on-goings.

What do these folk say to relatives of these possible victims when it is known action could have been taken? Surely get the priorities right. Action NOW; Enquiry later.
60

Arfur,

21/11/2008 13:16:05
Labour - Public Enquiry

SNP - Action

Labour - 2 years waiting for said public enquiry

SNP - action same year as incident

Labour - 8 years to fix problems but didnt

SNP - Acting to fix them since they got power

Gray is an idiot. It is frightening that this guy is our representative of the party in charge of number 10.

#51 Miss H - as ever fantastic post.
61

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

21/11/2008 13:31:08
Is it just me but does signing posts every time with some self-appointed title make the poster look like a pompous tw@?
62

Observer. 1,

Glasgow 21/11/2008 13:36:17
66 It's just you.
63

Observer. 1,

Glasgow 21/11/2008 13:37:31
61 - well put.
64

Observer. 1,

Glasgow 21/11/2008 13:41:05
66 are you a diminutive rock star ?
65

TimW1234,

Ottawa, Canada 21/11/2008 13:54:38
With everybody calling each other an "eejit" is it any wonder that this problem will fester until the insults stop and posters and the government sort out a viable solution to this deadly problem.
66

Fred Quimby,

21/11/2008 14:32:15
As oner with a little experience in C difficile, albeit with respect to treatment may I chip a few pennies worth.

C D is a spore forming organism. Once sporulated the game is a bogey. In its vegetative state it is vulnerable to good cleaning and nursing practice.

I am surprised no one has mentioned that C D is now in the air conditioning systems of most hospitals, the spores that is, and is being diffused around.

It is the very young, the old and the weakest of patients who are most vulnerable. The spores pass easily through the stomach acid and vegetate in the lower digestive system where all the disruption takes place leading to diarrhoea, fluid loss and extreme stress to already weakened patients.

There are techniques used in animal farming which have had great and postitive documented effect on tis and other micro organism in animal feed.

The use of probiotic bacteria and yeast cells walls are two worthy examples.

The probiotic bacteria ,started to be taken in massive numbers, weeks before the patient enters hospital should work.

Yeast cell walls will be absorbed in the lower gut, will stimulate the natural gut flora and will remove the C D vegetative bacteria down and out of the digestive system.

Why has it not been tried clinically?

It is a food supplement and by law the NHS cannot buy food supplements, only drugs.

To be classified as a "drug" the two treatments I mentioned earlier must go through clinical trials which now must be passed by a local Hospital "ethics" committee, the UK NHS and then finally must be approved by Bruxelles.

The cost of the dossier is eye watering, the paperwork necessary mountainous and there must be insurance in case the hospital is sued by the patients.

It is no wonder that these prophylactic treatments are not used, in the UK although I believe that Germany approved the yeast of yeast cell walls some years ago.


These two prophylaxis do not stop the organism being endemic in the hospital e
67

watcher,

Edinburgh 21/11/2008 14:40:54
Did you see Sturgeon on Question time last night? Poor wee lost sheep amongst the real Politicians, she couldn`t even answer the question on strictly come dancing Ha Ha.
68

Fred Quimby,

continued 21/11/2008 14:44:50
I work with a company in Denmark who manufacture disinfectant impregnated jetable wipes which work extremely well in disinfecting hospital surface, even hands.

They cost money but have proved to be cost effective in time and labour when compared to buckets of disinfectant and dirty mops.


His biggest client group is not hospitals but cruise ships where the cost of such outbreaks can be measured in money terms.

The wipes even are effective on viruses, including Norwalk.

No chance of them ever being adopted in the UK where the bean counters know the cost of everything but the value of nothing.

Until these people have their salaries and bonuses taken away there will be impetus to treat the problem in a fundamental manner.


Kick it into the long grass until the next time.


A few public beheadings of these pen pushers might be effective "pour encourager les autres" but, that will never happen.

Accountability is needed and that is clearly unbecoming in the NHS

69

Fred Quimby,

21/11/2008 14:54:20
correction of last post


value of nothing should read the worth of nothing
70

Fred Quimby,

21/11/2008 15:06:15
I'll tell him but, it is Friday and Denmark is closed after noon.

I fear that the problem of C D is endemic. No, not just in the hospital environment but in the attitude to hygiene.

The problem is culture and not really a bacterial or viral one.
71

Arfur,

21/11/2008 16:22:50
#76 watcher - you can tell who's talking sense on that programme by the amount of folk who clap when they speak. Sturgeon got the most by far. I generally get alot from that programme but that along with you comment also tells me that you are a deluded fool.
72

57vintage,

Keith 21/11/2008 16:45:35
#83

I don't think so.

The level of applause is entirely in proportion to the number of earnest party hacks who blag their way in, be they Nats, Labour, tories, LibDems or a few last night who I suspected of shifting uneasily in their seats during the BNP bit.

Like the applause charade in Holyrood, it's just the telly equivalent of all the 4 separatist legs good 2 unionist legs bad/4 unionist legs good 2 separatist legs bad yahoo tendency hokum unfortunately all too prevalent on this forum.
73

Fred Quimby,

21/11/2008 16:53:00
Like the applause charade in Holyrood, it's just the telly equivalent of all the 4 separatist legs good 2 unionist legs bad/4 unionist legs good 2 separatist legs bad yahoo tendency hokum unfortunately all too prevalent on this forum.

Any chance of you translating that into English?

I understood the Animal Farm bit after that I am a bit confused.

Thanks
74

Miss H,

21/11/2008 17:02:23
76 Not knowing anything about Strictly Come Dancing secures my vote.

I would be concerned if she did!
75

,

21/11/2008 17:04:18
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76

cataibh,

Over the Struie 21/11/2008 18:02:09
I see that as the evening news circulation is falling there is to beef up sales a free Clayna minature on offer, I have a better idea, don't buy the evening news or scotsman for a month and treat yourself to a couple of single malt bottles of whisky.
77

Murray in Canada,

Salt Spring Island 21/11/2008 18:04:14
46 Federalist's question is valid. I see no reason why steps cannot be taken now AND an enquiry planned.
78

Fred Quimby,

21/11/2008 18:19:25
89
Murray in Canada,
Salt Spring Island 21/11/2008 18:04:14
46 Federalist's question is valid. I see no reason why steps cannot be taken now AND an enquiry planned.




Keep reading the posts Murray

It will occur

79

bully wee alba,

Edinburgh 21/11/2008 19:10:03
#15
What a strange comment regarding my user name, reminiscent as it is of the arch unionist AM2’s lack of understanding of Scottish culture and colloquialisms.

It is not a crime to be to unaware of the meaning of Scottish phraseology, however, to broadcast your ignorance hardy assists your credibility.

Google the component parts and educate yourself.
80

,

21/11/2008 19:18:57
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81

Observer. 1,

Glasgow 21/11/2008 19:25:46
75, 77 interesting posts. I would take George Laird's advice and pass it on.

92 are you always rude and ignorant ? You know......what ?
82

Millerman1,

21/11/2008 21:02:12
Scunnert#

You cannot compare North America(Canada/USA) with the UK health service, there is a massive difference across the board from treatment to the pen pushers.

The snp have sunk to a new low, they certainly have blood on their hands now, snp supporters should hang their heads in shame.

Sturgeon should go and she should take the rest of the people who are damaging this part of the UK with her esp Salmond the pieman, Swinney, Hyslop and Kenny M the man who wants to tell you what you can and cannot do woth your life.

Does anyone know where this Stop the Snp website/blog is?
83

Millerman1,

21/11/2008 21:05:35
Regarding Question Time on the BBC, i was told that a few of the Nat activists who post here and the Herald are often on the audience when in Glasgow or elsewhere in this part of the UK, i will not name them to save them red faces.lol
84

Observer. 1,

Glasgow 21/11/2008 21:22:37
96 Have you lost your memory Sammy ? You are ''Stop the SNP'', a little one man band.
85

Observer. 1,

Glasgow 21/11/2008 21:24:59
You weren't on the list of BNPers were you Sammy - I checked it to see if I could find anyone from the environs of Rutherglen, where you live, but I didn't see anyone.
86

Observer. 1,

Glasgow 21/11/2008 21:26:43
I know Rutherglen quite well. Whereabouts are you exactly ?
87

,

21/11/2008 21:40:09
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88

,

21/11/2008 21:41:01
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89

,

21/11/2008 21:41:50
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90

,

21/11/2008 21:42:17
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91

Millerman1,

21/11/2008 21:45:51
Observer you must stop calling people you do not agree with names you make up, i am aware of Sam, this will be the Sam who put a stop to your propaganda and chatroom of SNP rubbish, i like Sam he was very good at what he does and i agree with almost all he said, there is no doubt about it that he made yourself and the other Snp loonies that became a sideshow even for the moderate Snp supporters who on many occasions named you lot as idiots making the Snp look bad.

I wonder if Sam or others will try and get the Scotsman to change its comment system, i hope so as although not as bad as the Herald it is looking like an Snp chatroom and that is not on.

Anyway did you not remember talking to me last week on here so there you have it, people were being abusive to you but not me and you accuse me of being someone i am not, i shop and visit all over Glasgow except the slum areas around Govanhill, do they speak the English there?, my heart goes out to the poor Ind. Glaswegians that live there and cannot sell their homes because of this.

P.S The new comments section on the Herald is great, i am well pleased with it.lol.

P.P.S I have left some comments on the BNP thread which you also posted on.
92

Observer. 1,

Glasgow 21/11/2008 21:49:15
103 - a lady doesn't discuss these things.

93

Millerman1,

21/11/2008 21:51:29
Melanthios/Wardog etc etc the usual loonies but posting in new names.

I cannot comment on Sam but i hope he does here what he did on the Herald, stop the Snp propaganda and threads looking like chatrooms and all you idiots do is help him.lol.

He (Sam) is one of the regular poster on the Herald and several other papers/blogs, he is also good at costing the snp votes.

You really cannot beat him even when you malice report his comments it helps him, he did as he said he would.

Oh la la !
94

Observer. 1,

Glasgow 21/11/2008 21:54:30
Sammy - how sweet you are. If you admit posting on the Herald then people can see you in your Sam mode. You are not hard to spot, dear.

Now, signing in as Millerman1 to praise yourself as Sam, whilst admitting you post on the Herald - as Sam, whilst telling me not to accuse you of being someone that you're not (Sam) takes lunacy and makes it art.

Well done.
95

Observer. 1,

Glasgow 21/11/2008 21:55:54
ps the original Sam is back on and p!ssin' himself laughing at you.
96

Observer. 1,

Glasgow 21/11/2008 21:57:01
Does anyone remember the opening lines of ''Soap''

Confused: You soon will be.....
97

Millerman1,

21/11/2008 21:58:12
101#

Prove if needed that the Snp activists operate fake names aswell , we`re watching you.lol.GROW UP.

That statement just proves Sam right that the activists group together and operate via email between each other, i am told that many of these emails especially from Melanthios are about me.

Look what happened last time you tried to bully Sam, you underestimated him big time, did he not even play apart in costing Glenrothes for the Nats.lol.
98

Observer. 1,

Glasgow 21/11/2008 22:03:23
Play it again Sam, you're a hoot, you really are.
99

Millerman1,

21/11/2008 22:03:55
109#

Keep trying you and yours will as always fail, you really will need to do better and even then you will fail.

Original Sam, was that the one you had a thing for, the one the decent Sam chased of for his abuse and he keeps changing his names, i think he learned some time ago.

Observer you where chatting to me last Friday on here
100

Millerman1,

21/11/2008 22:07:35
112# Call me what you like, what ever floats your boat.

Millerman1 is me as you know, just because i win arguments you call me Sam, it seems every Unionist is Sam.

The Snp is finished and you all know it.
101

Observer. 1,

Glasgow 21/11/2008 22:18:00
Replied to you on the BNP thread Sam. What the future holds for the SNP you would need to be Nostradamus to predict, but one thing is sure; your activities won't have any effect whatsoever.
102

Millerman1,

21/11/2008 23:03:03
115#

I think you and yours know Sam got results in more than one way, he could make alot of money as he seems to be really good at what he does, at first people thought he was joking but lets face it he said from the start that he was going to stop snp propaganda and threads looking like snp chatrooms and he did within weeks.
103

Millerman1,

21/11/2008 23:04:39
115#

As i said call me what you like, being called Sam is a pleasure but thanks for thinking i am as good as him but sorry i am not.
104

Scunnert,

21/11/2008 23:19:26
Will be interesting to see what the police find in their investigation. Something tells me Labour won't like it.
105

,

21/11/2008 23:27:00
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21/11/2008 23:31:46
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107

subrosa,

22/11/2008 02:49:03
I'm angry that the Vale of Leven families are now asking for Nicola Sturgeon's resignation. What good will that do?

If this is the level of their concerns then it's sad. They should be helping not hindering with a request for a public enquiry which will take about 2 years.

Such a shame they can't just move on and keep highlighting the procedures to halt these infections such as hand washing, etc and ensuring all hospital staff know how to inform relatives of the effects of the bug.

Back in February 2007 when I acquired this bug, I was told "You've got a wee infection." I had to ask and ask to find out what it was. Nobody in the hospital gave me one piece of information. My family had to do all the information gathering at home on the computer.

C.difficile has been around for many years and there have possibly been many deaths caused by it. At least Nicola Sturgeon is open and honest about the causes and procedures she is taking.

Pity Jackie Baillie, whose constituency covers Vale of Leven, didn't shout louder when they were in government. She allowed this hospital to get into the state it was when this outbreak started.

108

subrosa,

22/11/2008 02:53:50
A public enquiry into the Iraq War would be money far better spent. There are serious issues and documentation to be examined.

I would appreciate it and I'm sure many others would too.

But of course, that won't happen. Too many guilty MPs walking around.
109

MandyMac,

Glasgow 22/11/2008 14:29:01
Nicola get's Politician of the year after residing over a failure, go figure! She was hopeless on Question Time and she is a hopeless Minister...
110

JennyA,

Scotland 22/11/2008 17:27:02
ACTIONS speak better than words. Well done Nicola!! Those random hospital inspections wll keep the NHS Trust managements on their toes. The SNP Health Ministers (don't forget silent Shona) are guilty of little more than BELIEVING all the complacent smug rubbish put out by those personnel in charge of infection control in our Scottish Hospitals and those in the Health Protection Scotland HAI Task Force, all paid high salaries to PROTECT us patients from these lethal bugs. I contracted C diff 2 years go because I was put, post operative, into an open ward bay beside other patients with diarrhoea. I was very vulnerable, having had a colon resection and 2 of those powerful broad spectrum antibiotics. Did anyone CARE about risk assessments? NO!!! My husband has just spent some time in the same ward. He was given broad spectrum antibiotics and put NEXT to another chap with diarrhoea. What have they learned in 2 years? NOTHING!!! I will spare that hospital's blushes but C diff was 'rife' in that ward and my Trust's C diff figures are still INCREASING-againt a national trend.
(PS He didn't get C diff. He was VERY meticulous about handwashing and took probiotics. Other prospective patients take note).

 

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