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Scottish MPs send home a ticking-off on immigration

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Published Date: 30 June 2009
A COMMITTEE of MPs today risked sparking a major row between Westminster and Holyrood when it objected to a Scottish quango's attempts to influence immigration policy.
The House of Commons' Scottish affairs select committee said it was "concerned" that the Equality and Human Rights Commission (EHRC) in Scotland had been acting beyond its remit.

And it warned that in future the commission should concentrate on de
aling with the consequences of immigration for community relations rather than concerning itself with immigration policy, which is a Westminster responsibility.

The committee – mostly made up of Scottish MPs – also questioned why the EHRC had spent time making submissions to the SNP's National Conversation and the opposition parties' Calman Commission about more powers for the parliament.

The EHRC, set up in 2007, was the result of a merger of the Equal Opportunities Commission, the Commission for Racial Equality and the Disability Rights Commission. Although immigration is a UK-wide matter, Scotland sees it as a way of boosting Scotland's population and meeting a skills shortage, while the thrust of policy south of the Border is to limit the numbers coming into the country.

The MPs' report said: "While we have no wish to close down the debate on immigration, we are concerned that the Scotland committee of the commission is seeking to influence immigration policy on the basis of economic analysis and workforce needs assessment, which are outside its remit."

In evidence to the MPs, Chris Oswald, head of policy and parliamentary affairs for the EHRC in Scotland, said: "We feel we need to certainly have a debate in Scotland about whether there will be sufficient younger people, people of working age, to support the economy." But the MPs' report said: "The commission is best occupied focusing on dealing with the consequences of immigration for community cohesion and good relations, which is its central task, rather than seeking to influence the nature of that immigration."

"There are many other forums in which that conversation can take place.

"It should be careful to maintain its neutrality on issues outside its remit."

On the commission's decision to submit evidence to the National Conversation and the Calman commission, the MPs said: "We challenged our witnesses as to why they were doing work based on assumptions about further devolution or independence, when there were many apparently more pressing issues with which they could be concerned."





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  • Last Updated: 30 June 2009 10:11 AM
  • Source: Edinburgh Evening News
  • Location: Edinburgh
 
1

Scotland Needs YOU,

Glasgow 30/06/2009 11:55:39
‘‘Scotland sees it as a way of boosting Scotland's population and meeting a skills shortage, while the thrust of policy south of the Border is to limit the numbers coming into the country.’’

‘boosting Scotland's population’ - Scotland does not need more people - we need to use our resources for our own people - don’t squander our finances on asylum seekers, refugees and economic migrants.

‘meeting a skills shortage’ - don’t be daft - Scotland has an ever-growing growing number of skilled and unskilled people joining the ever-growing unemployment queues. These are people who had jobs, who want to work and need to work to meet commitments. Our people most certainly do not need the additional frustration of competing with new migrants brought into fill our non-existent jobs.

Those ‘south of the Border’ have experienced the resulting damage from numbers build-up and our now taking steps (lol) to stop the build-up.
2

Anthony,

Glasgow 30/06/2009 11:59:49
Even many who support the EHRC's remit, concede it seems to be spinning out of control. There also seems to be a worrying trend within this organisation to equate fighting racism and inequality (a noble objectiive), with fervant racism against indigenous British people.

Fighting racism means just that, in all its guises - not merely replacing one form of racism with another form.
3

Anthony,

Glasgow 30/06/2009 12:05:21
1) You have a point. Oxford University's demographics experts looked into all these claims being made about skill shortages and our supposed need for loads of immigrants.

They concluded firmly, that it is hyped beyond measure. Many of the government statistics for example, failed to factor in one small but rather important demographic factor - it's not just the indigenous population who get old, so too do immigrants!

Once this and similar variables were introduced to the forecasting models used by the government departments, their pro-mass-immigration arguments collapsed.

Yet quite disgracefully, these early statistics continue to be used and quoted over and over again, despite the fact that they have been proven to be discredited, being based on mistaken premises and basic statistical errors.
4

Allan(handofgod137),

30/06/2009 12:13:00
The hard facts are the majority of immigrants take unskilled jobs which our own unemployed refuse to do because they're allowed to sponge off the taxpayer.
5

Herman The German,

30/06/2009 12:24:26
#3.
Put up the link for the paper/research to which you are referring.
6

FreddieIII,

30/06/2009 12:26:10
#4 - What is your point? Immigrants take unskilled jobs - not exactly useful is it? What is required is a change in the way people use the Welfare state - it should not be an alternative to employment, it should be a safety net till you get back to work.

Scotland has no need for immigrants, what is required are jobs - the demographic problem is that too many working age people move out of the country and too many pensioners move here. The Highlands are fast becoming a giant old folks home for example. The skills shortage is caused by lack of jobs and people moving to get jobs elsewhere. I might add that we also have a problem where people do not move for work - ie thousands of people in the East end of Glasgow live in an unemployment hotspot, whilst 37 miles east, Edinburgh (until recently) has been an emplyoment hotspot.
7

Cod,

30/06/2009 12:33:41
More immigration is necessary. Especially Polish girls. Scotland's gene pool is in dire need of improvement.
8

Tartan Viking,

30/06/2009 12:38:48
The Scottish Parliament are guilty of racism themselves if you look closely at some of their job advertisements that say "we particularly welcome applications from members of ethnic minorities" etc etc (it mentions other sections of the community), claiming this is an attempt to have a workforce that 'reflect the diversity of the Scottish people'.

Bollards. The message here is simple. If you apply for a job within and you're not a white Scot (particularly a white Scottish male) you will get preference for the job.
This is racism by slealth and ought to be stamped out. Surely all jobs should be advertised simply with the words 'each candidate will be treated equally and fairly and will be appointed on merit' or something to this effect.
9

,

30/06/2009 12:56:19
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
10

Iain Mac,

30/06/2009 13:04:39
Lets see more migration! Many Scots are content to sit on their fat erses and do nowt.

Migration has greatly benefited our culture in Scotland. How many people don't eat Indian, Chinese or Mexican? How many drink Belgian or German beer? Buy Swedish furntiture? Wear American-style clothes made in Asian sweatshops? Use Japanese technology? Drive German cars? Even the English language is the biggest mongrel of the all!

At least in Scotland, we still have much of our indingenous culture, even our ancient Gaelic tongue is reversing it's decline, and we can share it with incomers and use what's good of theirs.
11

Iain Mac,

30/06/2009 13:12:53
#7 - agree. I'd take almost any beautiful slim Polish or Asian girl over some of the native and thick lard-buckets any day.
12

mad world,

30/06/2009 13:29:52
We might get a better balanced workforce if perhaps we got away from the Labour governments idea of sending 50% to university, thats crippled some industries.. it used to be the top 15% went to university, now its supposed to be 50%?? ok, i'll grant you that universities used to be elitetist and a way had to be found of getting more in, but 50%? madness, 4 years of studying for a job that doesn't exist for most.
look at the latest plan, unemployed having to take training or lose benefits.. can you imagine some of these people being trusted to service your boiler or rewire your house?? what a thought.. yes, lets offer training to people that want it, and those that dont, well, they can do a lot of these low paid jobs the immigrants apparently do, surely that would be more beneficial? less pressure on housing and services!
and less money set aside to aid immigrants and asylum seekers.. and despite what the government says, there is quite a bit set aside for that.
13

frank mcbride,

lusitania 30/06/2009 13:31:55
If this thread is anything to go by, then the odious BNP are making Edinburgh their prime target.

Every single person commenting here is from immigrant stock, so why are we supposed to be afraid of immigrants?

If you wish to change society for the better you have to be inclusive; your basic argument is that maginalisation is the root of our society's ills.

Why then do you wish to marginalise others?

The thin veneer of respectability exhibited by the BNP leadership is nothing more than a lie; the BNP leadership is odious in its hatred of all things non-WASP.

Anyone thinking of voting BNP should read the comments above and, where appropriate, substitute Catholic, highlander, gay, Jew, Eastern European etc, etc.
14

Laird O'Gorgie,

30/06/2009 13:50:28
13 what an absolute lot of drivel. If thats the best you can come up maybe the BNP would be a good idea.
Have you not considered the strain migration puts on schools, healths service, housing. For too long the argument about migration has been captured by the anti racist brigade.
Have a look round - our towns and villages are full of people without jobs who need proper training. We need investment in our youth not the anti racist dogma that emanates from clapped out socialists.
15

mad world,

30/06/2009 13:51:18
#13
#13
Frank
its the scale of immigration thats perhaps the cause for concern, not immigration itself. I would support the need to offer a safe haven for those in desperate need but i feel, and there are many like me that perhaps it's going just a little too far?
And i do have first hand experience of the effects and costs of what has become uncontrolled immigration.. and to add insult to injury my wife works in social housing, so not speaking from some neanderthal view of the world but speaking from an informed stance..
16

FreddieIII,

30/06/2009 14:21:31
#10 - Migration has greatly benefited our culture in Scotland.
Oh really - in what way has migration benefited Scotland? In what way? Architecture (no), politics (no), Literature (no), Poetry (no).

How many people don't eat Indian, Chinese or Mexican?
You mention food - are you trying to say migrants are the only ones who can cook Indian/Mexican/Chinese?

How many drink Belgian or German beer? Buy Swedish furntiture? Wear American-style clothes made in Asian sweatshops? Use Japanese technology? Drive German cars?
Erm, do we need migrants in our country for any of the above? No.

Even the English language is the biggest mongrel of the all! What is the point of saying that? The English language, like every language, has evolved and is evolving. Have migrants added to this?

My point is Scotland has not benefited from migration. We have no real race problems but neither should we be importing one. We need to solve our problems - unemployment, welfare state dependency, increasing energy prices etc internally without opening our borders.
17

EdwinB,

Glasgow 30/06/2009 14:24:10
The argument for more immigrants into Scotland is that it will strengthen the tax base: immigrants almost always work harder and get on faster.

I remember at the time of the Hong Kong handover, some wit suggested giving any Honk Kong Chinese who wanted out, settlement rights in Scotland - and within 10 years Scotland would be the most prosperous nation in Europe.

However, Scotland, as a welfare state, is going to be deeply attractive to just about everybody outside Europe, not just those with skills, and a more-or-less open door policy could also open the doors to a great deal of social unrest.

It's not an easy issue.


18

tomias,

Edinburgh 30/06/2009 14:39:23
Think humanism !Think Erasmus et al !
19

,

30/06/2009 14:45:15
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
20

radge dug,

30/06/2009 14:46:21
And we fought the Nazis and won. Let's do it again.
21

FreddieIII,

30/06/2009 14:52:42
#19 - Are you on drugs? "go and check out any of Scotland's artists - somewhere, not so far back you'll find 'foreign' blood. Jack Vetriano and David Mach come to mind. Even the Gaelic poet Rody Gorman in Irish. Many of the other Gaelic artists have Norse blood."

Jack V and David Mach are both born in Scotland - they are not migrants.

Scots have always travelled - even Iceland and the Faroes were first settled by Gaelic monks - and sometimes for asylum too.

What is your point about that? Yes we all know that Iseland and the Faroes have a majority of Irish blood in their maternal lines. The discussion is about migrants coming to Scotland and the need for them in the 21st C. Why are you bringing up the earliest settlers to the Faroes 1500 years ago or so?
22

mad world,

30/06/2009 15:01:16
#19
Unfortunately the world is a different place these days.. look at population figures, pressure on economy, infrastructure etc.. your argument might hold up if for every 'hard working' immigrant we could get rid of one of the unemployable! alas i doubt thats going to happen.
so what worked for the dark ages doesnt work for the 21st century.
#20
who fought the nazis? and what constitutes a nazi? it's unfortunate that often anyone who expresses a need for some sort of control is ear marked as a nazi.
i see no mention of skin colour or religion! look at the US or Australian immigration policy, are they nazi states?
23

valleyjim,

30/06/2009 15:35:53
I think #13 is right. What we need in this country is more preachers of hate who can shout abuse at our troops (try doing that in their country) whilst claiming £100,000 p.a. in benefits. Bring on the BNP
24

Calum Crubag,

30/06/2009 16:29:23
If we send migrants back, our economy would collapse. Not only that, but other countries would then have the right to send back the millions of Brits abroad.

#23 - aye, like preachers of hate like the BNP or their counterpart Islamic nutters will make our lives better. Bin them all. Aye, the sooner backward Britain is in the past, the better. Saor Alba!
25

Eve,

Scotland 30/06/2009 16:52:04
#7 Cod: There already is more women than men in Scotland! For some reason or another

I would like to it be more even!
26

Dougie - Edinburgh,

30/06/2009 21:26:40
24 Calum Crubag

Our economy would not collapse. On average, immigrants cost as much as they contribute. In fact 80% cost more than they contribute, it's the other 20%, mainly highly skilled Westerners, who make up for the majority.

It's not a question of sending *all* immigrants back. We'd benefit enormously by sending back the parasites like the Islamicists who slander our soldiers while having large families paid for by our benefit system.

I'm afraid most people in the north of Scotland have a very rosy view of immigration because firstly, immigration to Scotland has been relatively limited so far and secondly, we've tended to have immigrants mainly from Eastern Europe, ie. those who are relatively similar to ourselves. Spend a few months in the hell hole known as London and you'll soon change your mind about the wisdom of having imported millions of third world people.
27

Dougie - Edinburgh,

30/06/2009 21:29:27
20 radge dug
The generation that fought the Nazis thought they were fighting to stop Britain from being overrun by foreigners. Now they've seen what's happened since, many of those veterans who are still alive are voting BNP.
28

Dougie - Edinburgh,

30/06/2009 21:38:52
17 EdwinB,Glasgow

Immigrants don't almost always work harder. That's an absurd and false claim. Some immigrant groups have very low rates of employment. Somalis for example are only 12% likely to be in work. They also have families more than three times larger than native British people on average.

If you seriously think that three million Hong Kong Chinese moving to Scotland would have resulted in a happy society then I recommend that you have a read about race relations in South East Asia.
29

Anthony,

Glasgow 30/06/2009 22:05:48
17) No migrants do not widen the tax base. That is because they almost invariably take jobs which were already there Even if you say they are quite right to do so, and are all wonderful people, they clearly are not widening the tax base.

What they do do, is cause a massive leakage to our economy, as a high percentage of their wages leave this country - remember the governments efforts to stimulate the economy by printing more money? Well large amounts leaving has the opposite effect. We have the multiplier effect in reverse. Far from being a good thing, this can be highly damaging.

10) I'm sorry but your logic is just crazy. You don't have to jump in a river because you want a glass of water!
30

Scotland Needs YOU,

Glasgow 30/06/2009 22:35:38
28 - Dougie - Edinburgh

‘If you seriously think that three million Hong Kong Chinese moving to Scotland would have resulted in a happy society then I recommend that you have a read about race relations in South East Asia.’


A British research institute came up with detailed plans for moving all of Hong Kong to Europe, recommending a site on the west coast of Scotland and to resettle the colony's 5.7 million people there. Politicians agreed the idea was worth pursuing.

Had it happened, Scotland would have been renamed to what? And the Scots would have been foreigners in what used to be their own country. Once you’ve lost it you will never get it back - and the take-over and give away is happening.
31

Dougie - Edinburgh,

01/07/2009 00:32:26
#29
It should also be pointed out that China and Japan are amongst the world's greatest trading nations. The Japanese especially find a good balance between enjoying the best that foreign cultures have to offer and maintaining their own culture. Yet neither find foreign immigration necessary to do so.
32

Dougie - Edinburgh,

01/07/2009 00:33:00
Iain Mac is a monument to the power of propaganda over the weaker mind. I struggle to understand why he would want to stay in Scotland at all since he clearly prefers any kind of foreigner to his own people. Perhaps his post #11 slander of Scottish women gives a clue as to the depth of his self-loathing? He seems like the kind to be intimidated by Western women. I suppose sad old guys find the idea of being with a younger Asian woman attractive, even if she's only interested in the money and the passport.
33

Dougie - Edinburgh,

01/07/2009 00:33:35
30 Scotland Needs YOU
I'd guess there would have been ethnic warfare, perhaps not so much like Northern Ireland in the 1970s, more like Northern Ireland in the 1640s. But these utopians never seem to think of that. They seem to think the future survival of our country is something to be gambled with on the basis that somehow, somewhere along the line, history has been abolished.
34

Ian down under,

Musselburgh 01/07/2009 00:52:03
Scotland is a nation of migrants. If we go back far enough the earliest residents were probably the Picts and most of us are probably descended from them. Various waves of Celts including the Scotae from Ireland settled here with a bit of help from the Vikings, and other Nordics. Even the Normans settled here but not as conquerors. And in the SE there are a few with Anglo Saxon heritage. Going the other way the indigenous people of the Lothians were the source of migration which went down through northern England and across to North Wales and SW England and therefore means we founded Wales! There are lots of place names in Lothian which can be traced back to their old 'Welsh' language routes but have been altered and anglicised here. This also explains all the mistaken ideas of King Arthur and Merlin et al coming from Cornwall and Wales. Again the evidence is strong that Arthur was actually 'Arddur ? spelling, which was simply the name for the 'high king'. There are references to Traprain Law being the possible seat of power but there are lots of places near Edinburgh with traceable links. So migration...........it's not new, and it's never going to stop because it's what we humans do.
35

Dougie - Edinburgh,

01/07/2009 08:37:38
34 Ian down under,Musselburgh

You're missing three points. Firstly, all of those waves of migration you mention were very similar Northern European peoples.

Secondly, each wave of migration was a disaster for the people living here previously. That's why we don't even know for sure what language the Picts spoke.

Thirdly, despite all this, the genetic inheritance of the native people of Britain is still about 3/4 from the original settlers who followed the melting glaciers at the end of the ice age(see Stephen Oppenheimer's book). So to say we're a nation of immigrants is a gross distortion of reality. Until after WWII, there was very little immigration to Britain for over a thousand years.
36

Scotland Needs YOU,

Glasgow 01/07/2009 09:58:19
When people fall back on the old played-out, well used counter argument of we are all migrants - we are all foreigners in our own country, it brings to mind a TV comedy in which a contestant was being asked three question to win a million pounds. He had answered two questions successfully. The third question was ‘Are we all descended from Adam and Eve?’ ‘Yes’, replied the contestant.

‘Sorry, no relations allowed to take part in the quiz.’

Daft, innit?
37

Winters,

Glasgow 01/07/2009 14:06:36
We can all have a laugh at the thought of the population of Hong Kong coming to Scotland. Chinese people in general are industrious and integrate well wherever they live. And most of the people of Hong Kong who I've met, are devout christians.
38

Dougie - Edinburgh,

01/07/2009 21:32:33
37 Winters,Glasgow
Chinese immigrants may be industrious but this isn't always good for the native people of the countries they emigrate to. In Formosa, now renamed to Taiwan, the native people now live in poverty in mountain reservations, having lost their country to the Chinese immigrants. In the Philippines and Indonesia, Chinese big business co-operated with corrupt native elites to defraud the general populations. The 1% Chinese minority along with a tiny number of Spanish descended aristocrats control 70% of the wealth of the Philippines. Most Filipinos live in abject poverty. In Malaysia, Chinese immigrants started a war to seize control of the country. The British army, with the help of the native population were able to defeat them there low level ethnic conflict has never disappeared. In Tibet, Chinese immigrants have murdered thousands of the native people and maintain control of the country through military oppression and deliberate settlement of their own people. In Britain, it's the Chinese and Vietnamese who grow about 3/4 of the cannabis. So what I'd like to know is why you think Chinese immigrants integrate well?

I'm not sure if you've been to Hong Kong but I can assure it's an extremely aggressive dog eat dog society where there's a lot of extreme wealth but also extreme poverty. Queueing is unheard of, rudeness is universal, business practice is deceitful, nobody's interested in anybody else except for what can be got out of them. You're right that Hong Kong Chinese are industrious however, Hong Kong is not all of China.

 

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