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Scots first as Salmond meets Clinton

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Published Date: 24 February 2009
ALEX Salmond became the first Scottish First Minister to meet a US secretary of state yesterday when he held talks with Hillary Clinton.
Mr Salmond, who is in Washington for a series of Homecoming events, spent about 25 minutes with Mrs Clinton yesterday.

They discussed climate change, the Scottish Government's Saltire Prize for renewable energy developments and green energy.

After his meeting, Mr Salmond said: "Scotland and America share many ties of family and friendship and there is a strong bond between our two nations.

"This is an exciting time for the US – as Hillary Clinton has said, it is a new era for America. Today's meeting will also mark, I hope, the start of a new period of deepening friendship and partnership between our two nations."

He added: "We had a productive discussion that touched on issues around the shared global challenge of climate change.

"The secretary of state was clearly impressed by the idea of a small country making a large contribution to a global issue while I welcome the huge prominence of green energy in the US recovery plan."

Mr Salmond will address an international Burns' symposium in Washington today before hosting a reception to promote Homecoming.





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  • Last Updated: 23 February 2009 11:19 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
 
1

RufusT-Firefly,

23/02/2009 23:34:35
Why do the words

'waste'
'of'
'taxpayers'
'money'

come to mind?

2

RufusT-Firefly,

23/02/2009 23:48:43
Alex Salmond invites Hillary Clinton to Homecoming Scotland.........

http://www.nerve.com/CS/blogs/scanner/clinton_hillary_laughing.jpg
3

RufusT-Firefly,

24/02/2009 00:04:37
#3 Wardog, why did you get banned?

Was it because of your disgraceful Nazi comment?
4

RufusT-Firefly,

24/02/2009 00:05:28
3 Canes Pugnaces,24/02/2009 00:03:24


1. Let me guess, because you hate scotland?
===================================================

You are mistaking me for Mike Russell.
5

RufusT-Firefly,

24/02/2009 00:13:09
#6 Spook, not my idea of fun.

Pete is all yours.

Enjoy.
6

redcliffe62,

24/02/2009 00:18:15
The British Embassy no doubt gave salmond their full support when he was there. Or did they?
7

redcliffe62,

24/02/2009 00:19:50
It would have been good for Clinton to realise Scotland has finally produced an intellectually competent politician having had to deal with the labour brat pack in the last 15 years.
8

Thomas79,

Ayrshire 24/02/2009 00:25:01
RufusT-Firefly - be honest, there is nothing Alex Salmond or the SNP could do to please you, apart from resign from government. Then you would be happy, when Gray, Kerr, Foukles and Wendy get back in. Thats what you really want. I assume you won't say Gordon Browns visit is a waste of money. But you don't want to talk about who you support, much easier to attack Salmond and the SNP. Sad.
9

,

24/02/2009 00:44:01
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10

Mercutio,

FALKIRK 24/02/2009 01:09:13
Did you notice Salmond blethering about the failure of "Abbey" whilst distancing himself from RBS.
Salmond's desperation to ingratiate himself in the US was reminiscent of Gerry Adams's crawling to the Comeback Kid.
11

Sierra Foothills Scot,

Diamond Springs 24/02/2009 01:32:36
Rufus and friends have a hissy fit every time Alex Salmond does something positive.
12

Edward,

24/02/2009 01:33:44
#18 Mercutio
Thats funny I watched the same program and what he was refering to was the bail out of TSB and Abbey AS WELL AS RBS. Presume theres a bit of a wax poblem with you!
Alex Salmond did very well with the visit, which encompassed the meeting with Hilary Clinton and a address at Georgetown University
Alex Salmond was right when he queried Labour's Andy Kerr (well known economist- not) that Scotland should tighten its belt as the UK government had bailed out the Scottish banks to the tune of £ 37 billion, this being the reason that Andy Kerr supported Alistair Darling (the failed lawyer)in wanting half a billion in cuts.Alex Salmond pointed out that the bail out covered ALL the banks involved and that RBS business was also in England
13

Edward,

24/02/2009 01:36:05
At least the Americans had someone sensible to talk to and who understod economics as apposed to the failed history graduate tha is Brown and the failed Lawyer that is Darling.Must of been a breath of fresh air.
No doubt Brown through yet another mobile at the TV, when he heard about this
14

Newton_Invented_Gravity,

24/02/2009 01:52:07
#1 The words 'waste of oxygen' spring to mind whenever you crop up.
15

KampungHighlander,

Jakarta 24/02/2009 02:18:05
The question for Brown is will he survive long enough to host the G20 meeting.
16

Brian Hill,

24/02/2009 02:33:30
One major benefit of Alex Salmond leading the British Council of Nations one week then making speeches at American Universities and meeting Secretary of State Clinton the next is that Scots are beginning to get the feeling of nationhood.

By the time the Referendum comes the concept of an Independent Scotland will be far less strange than it was before 2007.

Keep it up First Minister and Cabinet.
17

SNP hypocrisy,

24/02/2009 05:42:13
Nice to see Salmond rubbing shoulders with the Democratic party's rejects. What other losers can we expect to see him with? John McCain, Sarah Palin? McCain's Oven chips, a Monty Python?
18

SNP hypocrisy,

24/02/2009 05:43:33
Nice little junket you worked there fat man. Hope you porked out on the free grub.
19

SNP hypocrisy,

24/02/2009 05:45:51
19. Salmond understands economics, right? LOL. he might have a degree in it but his dream of being part of an arc prosperity (lol), just proves he doesn't know the first thing about economics. I wouldn't trust him with the change from a fish supper.
20

Newton_Invented_Gravity,

24/02/2009 06:12:23
#26 Sarah Palin is a Democrat?
21

redcliffe62,

24/02/2009 06:31:53
snp hypocrisy, which cuurency has fallen lower against the others in the last 3 months, the euro, the currencies of finland, norway or iceland, or browns dog POUND?
facts and figures available should you query.
the whole world knows brown stuffed up more than anyone else, at least admit it and you will not come across as a neandethal in the debating stakes.
the arc of prosperity, even iceland, is doing bettetr than the arc of despondency led by cyclops and the unibrower.
22

redcliffe62,

24/02/2009 06:35:55
snp hypocrisy feels comfortable talking about losers, he fits right in.
23

RufusT-Firefly,

24/02/2009 07:05:19
A better headline would have been.......

'One Failed Politician Meets Another in the U.S.'.
24

RufusT-Firefly,

24/02/2009 07:12:17
Tonight, Salmond is meeting up with that other famous illusionist, David Copperfield.

What a team that would be.

One made the Eiffel Tower disappear whilst the other made LIT disappear along with £2000 grants for first time buyers.
25

For Scotlands Future,

Vote for the SNP 24/02/2009 07:30:18
Can't you just smell the desperation from Rufus. His worst nightmare - the SNP breaking away from English Embassy control while abroad.
26

,

24/02/2009 07:38:20
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27

Grahamski,

Falkirk 24/02/2009 07:47:54
Isn't Mr Salmond looking really pleased with himself at having a picture taken with a real life Clinton?
He is a starstruck saddo, isn't he?
28

Dave From Barra,

Western Isles 24/02/2009 07:51:21
38

Yup, just like Broon with his sycohpantic brown nosing of Obama and tickling of the nation with comments about Jade and other loser celebs (not that I think Jades a loser, poor lass)
29

brownlie,

24/02/2009 08:01:04
37 danielrober

Very sensible, but rather incomprehensible, post.

38 Grahamski

You're an expert on saddos - and stupid comments.
30

,

24/02/2009 08:01:54
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31

The Tin Man,

24/02/2009 08:11:39
"They discussed climate change, the Scottish Government's Saltire Prize for renewable energy developments and green energy."

I presume that Salmond did not bring up the subject of Scotland becoming more, rather than less, reliant on fossil-fuels for electricity generation, over the last 3 years.
32

Dave From Barra,

Western Isles 24/02/2009 08:17:14
Tin man

"Presumeably" you don't know the answer to your own rhetoric since, as I presume, you were not party to the conversations between the two?
33

bully wee alba,

Edinburgh 24/02/2009 08:19:13
Who did Joke McConnell manage to meet whilst in the USA?


The only individual I can recall is a rather bemused looking chap in that famous photograph of Joke in full mincing pose wearing a pin-striped pair of curtains.
34

Queen D,

Glasgow 24/02/2009 08:19:38
Interesting how one poster appears adept at posting prior to midnight while all others have to wait until after the witching hour.
Surely the Scotsman is'nt breaking its own rules?
35

Dave From Barra,

Western Isles 24/02/2009 08:23:51
Queen d

Rufus is wholly owned by the Hootsmon and particular the last Editor Mike Gibson. He has been retained to stir up anti-English feelings amongst the Scots and to contribute to anti-SNP blogging.

Since Mike has resigned, Rufus is feeling displaced and out on a limb but will continue his diatribe until such times as the Hootsmon completely implodes then re-invents itself as a true voice of Scotland as apposed to a recycling centre for Labour press releases.
36

donald,

glasgow 24/02/2009 08:27:42
Look foward to Eck's visit as President of a Free Scotland
37

,

24/02/2009 08:28:03
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38

Mr. Lachie Todd,

Edinburgh 24/02/2009 08:51:01
Not one for missing a golden opportunity, the gallus First Minister has once again grabbed another headline, and milked it to the full.

Unionists should still remember that, when he was First Minister, Henry McLeish met President Bush.

However, it must be very frustrating for Scots Unionists to see a Nationalist First Minister strutting the world stage in Washington DC.

Not what the devolved Scottish Parliament was created for by any means?
39

Liberal for life,

Dunblane 24/02/2009 08:58:24
To be fair we do need to encourage Americans and all our other cousins to visit Scotland and the rest of the Uk to spend a few more bucks at this time - but I'm not sure if a narrow minded nationalist like Aik Salmond is exactly the right type of character thats going to have the right impact on people with a more international outlook.
40

TWC,

24/02/2009 08:58:50
Rufus, why are you so sensitive? Labour's hate for SNP is handing the prize to wee eck gift wrapped.

it was just 2 politicians meeting that is exactly what we should expect. If you want to beat Independence come up with positive attacks not this rubbish.
41

W U Merchant,

Aberdeen 24/02/2009 09:13:31
Alex who?
42

,

24/02/2009 09:16:38
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43

,

24/02/2009 09:20:09
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44

Grahamski,

Falkirk 24/02/2009 09:21:54
39
'Yup, just like Broon..'
Err, nothing like Broon actually. Gordon Brown has deep and longstanding links with the Democratic Party and its politicians. Over the last twenty years he has worked closely with them on policy and campaigning.
Mr Salmond on the other hand is a political opportunist desperate to have his picture taken with Amercican politicians.
More like Gerry Adams than Gordon Brown, I would have thought.....
45

Grahamski,

Falkirk 24/02/2009 09:24:15
53
'When do we get independence?'
1993 if you are stupid enough to believe fantasist and proven liar, Mr Salmond......
46

TWC,

24/02/2009 09:25:14
57 DemocraticScot,
Ho I'm a unionist but I'm not a Labour poodle and I can also concede that Scotland has been badly trated by Westminster financially but that doesn't make the union all bad.
47

bully wee alba,

Edinburgh 24/02/2009 09:26:01
#51

“but I'm not sure if a narrow minded nationalist like Aik Salmond is exactly the right type of character thats going to have the right impact on people with a more international outlook.”


Why do Unionists such as this poster equate a desire to have Scotland’s voice heard on the world stage with being “narrow minded”?

Surely the opposite is the case?

Alex Salmond is an excellent, articulate and enthusiastic ambassador for this country.

How the Unionists must wish they had someone of his calibre in their ranks.
48

,

24/02/2009 09:27:05
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49

bully wee alba,

Edinburgh 24/02/2009 09:32:22
#58 Grahamski

“Err, nothing like Broon actually. Gordon Brown has deep and longstanding links with the Democratic Party and its politicians. Over the last twenty years he has worked closely with them on policy and campaigning.”


I take it that Tony Blair’s close links with George W Bush and the Republican neo-cons has now been air-brushed out of history?
50

,

24/02/2009 09:32:49
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51

The Tin Man,

24/02/2009 09:39:26
It is a sad reflection of our prevaling insularity that the comments there are entirely devoted to Salmond meeting with Hillary, rather than the substance of the subject that was discussed.

By 2007, Scottish energy supply emissions have increased by 7.2% from the 1990/95 baseline. The Scot exec's emissions policy is failing, badly, and we are having the wool pulled over our eyes with the ougoing pretence that the execs policy's will reduce emissions.

FotE:

"Unless the issues around power generation and transport are addressed there is no way Scotland will be able to meet future emissions targets."
52

Grahamski,

Falkirk 24/02/2009 09:42:47
63
Huh?
Tony Blair supported the US when it was attacked by the dark forces of Islamo-fascism. He also supported them when they led the invasion and toppling of fascist dictator, Saddam Hussein.
There are no 'close' links between Mr Blair and the neo-cons....
53

,

24/02/2009 09:44:36
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54

Grahamski,

Falkirk 24/02/2009 09:47:29
64
'Another question who has done more for their country Gerry Adams or Gordon Brown?'
Only the most swivel-eyed zealot could ask such a ludicrous question. Sit back and watch as the mask slips and nationalism in all its extremist glory is exposed....
55

Daveunderwater,

Creative Scotland's National Party 24/02/2009 09:48:00
#33

Uriah Firefly, " Very 'umble Mr Darling, very 'umble indeed sir"
56

,

24/02/2009 09:50:31
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57

Daveunderwater,

24/02/2009 09:52:35
#33

Siegfried Brown and Roy Darling, tried to make the SNP Celtic Tiger disappear, but he's alive and well meeting with Mrs Clinton no less.

I hear Obama is interested in meeting our First Minister,

58

brownlie,

24/02/2009 09:53:59
66 Grahamski

Tell us more about what toppling the fascist dictator involved. Few hints, deception, corruption, murder of thousands of innocents, displacement of millions, desolation and desperation, rise in terrorism, prospects of civil war etc etc. Of course, there was no collusion between Blair and neo-cons which probably explains why Blair is now on the bread-line, in the queue at the Job Centre, UB40 in hand.
59

Daveunderwater,

24/02/2009 09:55:41

FTSE 100 extends losses after Wall Street dives

FTSE 100 extended its losses as Europe's main stock markets opened down after Wall Street hit a near 12-year low overnight on growing fears over the troubled US banking sector.

The caught wind that Broon The Bankrupter is to advise Obama

LMAO LOL LOL
60

,

24/02/2009 09:58:15
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61

brownlie,

24/02/2009 10:01:46
70 sm 753

Quite right, all politician should be slim, shy and not at all arrogant - just like Jim Murphy, for example. Research has shown that ability decreases as the waist-line increases. Are you running out of straws to clutch?
62

Miss H,

24/02/2009 10:06:20
10 Surely there would also be a place for Jackie Baillie?

She's our answer to Hillary Clinton don't you think?

Oh no, sorry, I meant Paris Hilton.

I always get them mixed up.
63

,

24/02/2009 10:06:50
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64

,

24/02/2009 10:07:54
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65

,

24/02/2009 10:09:10
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66

AJM,

24/02/2009 10:11:59
#51 LFL Quite right, as many businesses relieare involved with the tourist industry, the vaste majority come from "down south", those that come for the first time are impressed and want to come back. The scenery and places superb and the people very friendly, not quite what they expected. Why have the English, I am sure that I am right here, our largest customer, getting an impression of not being welcome?
As FM he should be touring the English regions trying to improve our image and encourage more people to come here. The cynic would suggest that is what he is good at, pretending to talk the country up, but in reality doing it down, by ommission.
67

brownlie,

24/02/2009 10:19:32
83 sm753

On the contrary, your postings show a significant number of intellectual and emotional failings and demonstrate, beyond doubt, a significant lack of judgement.

82 AJM

Do you have anything to back your contention that English visitors are not welcome here?

Are you confusing criticism of the Westminster Government with criticism of the English?

Do you, seriously, think that potential English visitors are unaware of the attractions of a Scottish holiday?
68

brownlie,

24/02/2009 10:22:12
85 sm753

It's not the first blood-stained hand that the UK government has welcomed.

Do you share the electoral commission's concerns about the voting in Glenrothers?
69

brownlie,

24/02/2009 10:28:01
90 sm753

Whatever your posts are designed to be they only provoke laughter and ridicule.

Why would any sensible human being want to put morons in a cage and then provoke them. Is this the principle behind the treatment of individuals in Iraqi prison camps?
70

,

24/02/2009 10:30:11
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71

bully wee alba,

Edinburgh 24/02/2009 10:33:03
#70 Smee

"Alex Salmond is an excellent, articulate and enthusiastic ambassador for this country."

No, he's an arrogant, egotistical, untrustworthy chancer with serious "truth" problems.


I’m sure Scotland’s First Minister will be hurt to the quick following your reasoned, carefully researched, balanced and articulate decimation of his character.

However, it seems that you missed out his tendencies to micro-wave kittens, assault frail old ladies, set fire to hotels, support illegal wars, manipulate postal ballots and to accept illegal donations.

But wait, do you not claim to be a Tory?


Of course they are above all that sort of stuff.
72

Nevsky;,

Moscow 24/02/2009 10:46:12
Great stuff that Alex is preparing the ground internationally and spreading the message as wide as he can and withing the heart of the US administration.



73

brownlie,

24/02/2009 10:47:25
sm753

Is there any significance in the fact that it only took your five minutes after your previous post to post at great length, including a reference to a BBC news article, at #87.

You are either the fastest typist in the country or, heaven forbid, you have someone to help you post.
74

,

24/02/2009 10:47:41
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75

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 24/02/2009 10:52:22
It's just a shame that various Westminster governments think special relationship equates to taking one for the team and keeping quiet.

That's a shame, as friends should be able to openly disagree.

Still the UK government needs the USA more.

Mind you America has done no to badly for starting as a wee colony being told want they can and can't do.

Quote" Obesity - except where there are specific medical circumstances - demonstrates a number of intellectual and emotional failings, including a lack of judgement."

Is this a new definition of Unionism?

76

Observer,,

Glasgow 24/02/2009 10:53:08
66 Come off it Grahamski you are talking mince. Tony Blair brought into the whole Project for a New American Century, and Gordon Brown financed it.

Their kow-towing to an unprovoked attack on an Islamic country will have repercussions for decades.
77

AJM,

24/02/2009 10:53:20
#86 Brownlie
I do not have to back up my assertion that English are not welcome, on the contrary I said that they were.

Although you as a lot of SNP supporters do when drectly queried that they save there vitriole only for the Westminster government, you as well as I know what is said on these forums by SNP posters referring to the English in a negative sense.

They are our customer and people ought to be careful what they say in these times that will make business harder.

Please respond to the FM touring the England, Wales and Ireland encouring people during homecoming, or is it all jaunts, dinners, photo shoots and back slapping exercises in the Americas. There are a lot of people of Scottish descent living in England, not just in the US.

It is not what the FM does that is wrong it is ommission to look after the largest customer that is an indictment.
78

Grahamski,

Falkirk 24/02/2009 10:54:12
99
Oh dear.........
79

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 24/02/2009 10:55:30
106 The Israeli relationship and dynamic is much more important to the US administration than that of the UK.
80

Grahamski,

Falkirk 24/02/2009 10:55:42
105
'Their kow-towing to an unprovoked attack on an Islamic country will have repercussions for decades..'

Unprovoked?

Hmmmmmmmmmm
81

AJM,

24/02/2009 10:57:39
#100 Nevsky I thought that he was going to drum up business for Scotland, not go on a one man independence promotion mission. Or can the man not contain himself to stick to the script. If he has done this then the tax payer should not pay, it should be funded by the SNP.

Do you have any evidence that he did stray from the brief?
82

,

24/02/2009 10:59:02
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83

RufusT-Firefly,

24/02/2009 10:59:28
97 bully wee alba,Edinburgh 24/02/2009 10:33:03
I’m sure Scotland’s First Minister will be hurt to the quick following your reasoned, carefully researched, balanced and articulate decimation of his character.
===============================================

"hurt to the quick"?

What on earth does that mean Bully Boy?

Or did you mean "cut to the quick"?

Bully Boy takes great pride in correcting everyone else's, typos, spelling errors and grammatical inconsistencies.

If you are going to spend your life on here correcting everyone's mistakes Bully Boy, then you really will need to clean up your act.

"hurt to the quick"

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
84

Grahamski,

Falkirk 24/02/2009 11:01:30
113
Hardly. That Mr Salmond stood in line with another five minor adminstrators to have his picture taken just shames us a wee bit. We'll see him sticking his head through a picture of two fat ladies at the seaside next...oh no, wait a minute, that actually IS the first minister....
85

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 24/02/2009 11:02:19
112 His opinion and yours comes down to the weakening of the UK and it's influence in the World, what a horrible thing democracy is, on the one hand it can weaken the UK's influence and on the other increase Scotland's.

Oh the danger of it! Aye democracy is a crazy dangerous thing.
86

Nevsky;,

Moscow 24/02/2009 11:09:25
114 AJM#

What brief? Could you post the details for us? His brief is to represent Scotland and to inform our cousins in the US regarding the political situation in Scotland.

As the current polls suggest there are only two points in it then it would be negligent if he did not inform America don't you think?

Would you prefer Murphy or Broon the Bomber did it instead?

I am sure the whole congress would back Scotland after independence (particularly the Scots and Irish contingent) and there would be a lot of goodwill to wards Scotland.

Can't wait!
87

Nevsky;,

Moscow 24/02/2009 11:12:19
123 Second#

Yip...this really sticks in the unionists craw the promotion of Scottish Independence in the US congress...lovely!
88

IainGlasgow,

24/02/2009 11:13:23
#13

GB may be all excited about it and try and milk it for all its worth but I get the impression Mr Obama has bigger things on his mind than a lame Duck Prime Minister who's gravy train is going to smash into the buffers and disintegrate very soon.
89

brownlie,

24/02/2009 11:17:46
I see the Paisley Pete is back again. How amusing!
90

bully wee alba,

Edinburgh 24/02/2009 11:17:48
#118 Rufus

"hurt to the quick"?

“What on earth does that mean Bully Boy?”

Or did you mean "cut to the quick"?


For your edification:-

“Quick can be defined as "the tender sensitive flesh of the living body, esp. that under the nails." (Random House College Dictionary). To "hurt to the quick" or another common expression "cut to the quick" means to injure deeply.”

I am aware that neither erudition nor numeracy feature in your strong points, however, for your benefit I will now teach you a rather appropriate term for a collection of Lard George acolytes.


“A parcel of hogs.”

Whether or not you wish to add the suffix of “in a nation”, is entirely up to you.


91

brownlie,

24/02/2009 11:20:39
136 sm753

I suppose Bush was saying to Henry "Back me in my neo-con conning of the UN so that my friends will get considerably richer". Lo and behold, Labour did, and Bush's friends, and Blair, got considerably richer.
92

,

24/02/2009 11:21:48
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93

Thomas79,

Ayrshire 24/02/2009 11:24:56
sm 753 - You have more posts than anyone, and they are all rants, you must be rattled. Good. You have failed to pursuade anyone in here that Scotland is useless and a sub region, in fact you are doing a better job turning reasonable people away from the union with your little rants. Keep it up, in fact step it up a gear. You will lose, just like in 2007. Come on sm 753, show us how reasonable you are, give us all you have, while we watch our suppor increase, lol.
94

,

24/02/2009 11:32:54
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95

Miss H,

24/02/2009 11:34:10
Can't believe all these comments.

It is not really news that politicians going to other countries meet other politicians. It's what they do.

I will be more interested to see the photo when Alex Salmond meets Gordon Brown tomorrow.

I imagine the smiles may be a little strained!
96

,

24/02/2009 11:38:26
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97

bully wee alba,

Edinburgh 24/02/2009 11:42:50
#147 Miss H


I have yet to hear that Gordon Brown claims to have a “special relationship” with the current Scottish Government, or the French, German, Spanish or Italian Governments.

I wonder why that is?
98

Faux Cul,

24/02/2009 11:46:36
The significance of the meeting between Clinton and Salmond was that it took place.

Moreover,

1) It would never have happened under millionaire D Dewar, Joke McConnel, Bendy Wendy and no fecking chance of being thought about by the Grey Dreich. 10 Drowning Street would have filed any such notion into the waste bucket file marked Scotland.

2) The USA would never have countenanced it. What was in it for them?

3) The timing is not coincidental. Brown creaming himself to getn the first photo-op with Obama and Salmond get the nod for a meeting with the VP. A meeting with Obama would have been politically incorrect except perhaps on Tartan Day. We shall see.

4) I sense a faint hint of a snot flicked at Broon from the Obama camp

5) Finally a faint scent that the USA is hedging its bets with the DisUnited Kingdom, just in case
99

Faux Cul,

24/02/2009 11:48:46
142
Quisling Gogs,
24/02/2009 11:21:48

That would be Dougie Alexander actually?
100

frank mcbride,

lusitania 24/02/2009 11:54:45
#90, sm753.

What a statement about your sense of morallity!!!

However, it is not really surprising given that s/he is deluded enough to think that s/he could incite anyone to anything.
101

AJM,

24/02/2009 12:02:50
#147 Miss H, he went there to promote Homecoming, not to do a round of hand shakes. The proof will be in the number of visitors he generates.

Please could you respond to my points regarding where he should be going as outlined in 82 and 107. Not any response from any SNP supporter backing such an idea, strange that.
102

Faux Cul,

24/02/2009 12:13:34
155

I must have blinked as I never saw it in any of my local press at the time.

So Jack did a red carpet welcome to Bush at Prestwick and Henry did a "tartan week" meet with Bust at the White House.

Must have blinked both times then.

Would you not say that timing was significant for wee Eck's photo op?

Silly me, of curse not.

Suicide Troll!
103

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 24/02/2009 12:14:49
155 quote:- ""Jack McConnell met George Bush at Prestwick Airport ahead of the G8 summit in 2005, and Henry McLeish met Bush in the White House in 2001."

I forgot that, I remember it well I thought old Dubya said to Jack "Here hold my bag laddie, take it to the car for me." :-)
104

,

24/02/2009 12:17:17
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RufusT-Firefly,

24/02/2009 12:20:58
140 bully wee alba,Edinburgh 24/02/2009 11:17:48
“Quick can be defined as "the tender sensitive flesh of the living body, esp. that under the nails." (Random House College Dictionary). To "hurt to the quick" or another common expression "cut to the quick" means to injure deeply.”
==========================================
Dear oh Dear

Bully Boy gets more desperate by the day.

He makes a classic mistake, then searches Google in desperation to see if he can cover his tracks.

He finds one website out of the billions available called wiki.answers.com and all of a sudden it is the new bible.

Bully Boy the "King of the Malapropisms"

"Hurt to the quick"

HAHAHAHAHA

Splendid.
106

Alasdair mac Alasdair Mór Mac an Righ,,

24/02/2009 12:28:01
26SNP hypocrisy, 24/02/2009 05:42:13
Nice to see Salmond rubbing shoulders with the Democratic party's rejects

========================
Hilary is undoubtedly the most powerful women on the planet right now.

Yet you call her a reject??

You unionist trolls really do post utter rubbish.
107

The Tin Man,

24/02/2009 12:32:31
Salmond met Hillary, and discussed global climate change - something both the US and Scotland are failing to get a grip of, although they like to pretend they do.

Hootsmon posters then insert their heads where the sun fails to shine, and discuss 'the political significance of the meeting'. Good grief, I am sure we all know exactly how politically significant, or otherwise, Scotty FM's meetings with American politicians are.

Very tedious thread.
108

Alasdair mac Alasdair Mór Mac an Righ,,

24/02/2009 12:33:06
54W U Merchant, Aberdeen 24/02/2009 09:13:31
Alex who?

==============

You post about him most days dafty.

Is this really the level of discussion from the unionists.

Pathetic. U Merchant Aberdeen. More like Labour troll, Glasgow.
109

Alasdair mac Alasdair Mór Mac an Righ,,

24/02/2009 12:36:27
32RufusT-Firefly, 24/02/2009 07:05:19
A better headline would have been.......

'One Failed Politician Meets Another in the U.S.'.

=========================

Once again. Clinton is the most powerful women on the planet.

You unionists do measure failure in an unusual way.

Your daily comments are becoming more and more desperate.


110

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24/02/2009 12:36:48
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Alasdair mac Alasdair Mór Mac an Righ,,

24/02/2009 12:39:03
172sm753, 24/02/2009 12:35:41

Anyway, I'm off for a look at New Scientist.

BTW the American War of Independence was partly about forming a Union, the indissolubility of which was ably defended by Lincoln.

Don't wait up.

======================

The clue about the purpose of the War is in the name " War of Independence".

Now you are really making a Rufus of yourself.
112

brownlie,

24/02/2009 12:39:34
163 sm753

"Have you noticed that the Nattists are getting more and more bitter these days"

The height of irony from a poster whose raison d'etre is attempting to provoke nationalists and has ambitions, metaphorically speaking, of course, of "poking morons with a stick" from the safety of his chair.

113

frank mcbride,

lusitania 24/02/2009 12:41:43
#162, Second Wind.

When trying to discuss anything with AM2, you must, first, agree with him.

You accuse him of incitement. You are correct. His only purpose is to attempt to incite racial hatred.

I have, on a number of occasions, challenged him on this. I have, even, challenged him to take me to Court if I have miscalled him.

He has still to answer either challenge. However, that is the normal behaviour of a coward.
114

Grahamski,

Falkirk 24/02/2009 12:54:28
179
Arf arf arf...the nats are getting more like the moonies every day.... 'living in the period of Scotland's transition to independence.'....of course it is dear, just like we'll be free by 93....of course we will dear..like any other nutter fringe group be it revolutionary or religious ga-ga the promise of victory is within your grasp, we just need one last push..of course you do dear...
115

Grahamski,

Falkirk 24/02/2009 12:55:37
181
210th century girl more like......
116

The Master,

24/02/2009 12:57:24
#174 "Democratic": " By the time we have counted all the ballots including postal ballots after GE there is a chance no need for a referendum could be straight to negotiations for Independence"

Leaving aside your desire to bypass a referendum (which would inevitably be required on the basis that the SNP attract many votes on the basis of their populist, if often unworkable, non separation related policies), how can you imagine that the SNP could ever become that popular? The party's policies are, in many areas, most similar to the Lib Dems, who as we both know have never exactly taken Scotland by storm (outwith a few rural strongholds!)

I know that the SNP does attract voters who are as committed as you to the separation policy, but I think we both know that the great unwashed out there are largely more interested in other issues (and it doesn't take much savvy to work out that the separation policy would be like adding paraffin to the fire!)
117

Observer,,

Glasgow 24/02/2009 12:58:47
183 Stunning political analysis there Grahamski.

Personally I feel quite sorry for Salmond meeting Hilary Clinton she's a scary woman, but I'm sure he will have recovered by now.
118

Grahamski,

Falkirk 24/02/2009 13:01:29
187
They started it.....
119

The Master,

24/02/2009 13:02:58
#184 Smee: I can vouch for your not being AM2 because I remember that, when you first arrived, you seemed genuinely bemused as to who he was (he'd just started absenting himself after someone came close to exposing his identity at that point).

Indeed, I remember making a joke about how you must have been very new to the forum if you hadn't come across the notorious, if highly effective, AM2.
120

Grahamski,

Falkirk 24/02/2009 13:06:03
186
Yes, Mr Salmond does seem to have quite a history of being spectacularly wrong....
121

Observer,,

Glasgow 24/02/2009 13:09:06
190 All politicians come out with guff like that, it's part of the job.

I won't pain you by coming out with some of Labour's old slogans, but who can forget the Tories ''Labour isn't working'' one ?

They all talk soundbites.
122

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24/02/2009 13:11:11
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TWC,

24/02/2009 13:12:26
The Labour trolls on here are absolutely livid the Big Steak Pie has outdone them yet again by their yard stick.
Personally I don't see this meeting as a big thing, Hilary would have to meet a senior visitor from anothet Parliament.
This is more a measure of how petty Labour are become.
They will never defeat the wee man this way, while they are vomiting on here Swinney is quietly making real political points elsewhwere.
I fear Labour are burning their own boats.
124

Grahamski,

Falkirk 24/02/2009 13:14:26
191
I certainly won't forget that old chestnut coined by the Saatchis who, along with SNP, did more than most to facilitate the emergence of Thatcher. Gee, thanks SNP, thanks Maurice and Charles.......
125

Observer,,

Glasgow 24/02/2009 13:16:18
193 Labour aren't so much burning their own boats as conducting a public Viking funeral. Privatising the Post Office ? Jeezo, Thatcher would never have even attempted that.

126

brownlie,

24/02/2009 13:17:54
189

No, he was not bemused. He was confused about what persona to adopt under his new moniker.

He was also confused as to whether to use the word "fat" on a daily basis or to alternate with the occasional "obese". There are high accolades awarded in unionist circles for criticism of the First Minister's appearance when reasoned debate is not available.
127

Observer,,

Glasgow 24/02/2009 13:18:04
194 Oh the old ones are the best eh Grahamski ?
128

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24/02/2009 13:23:23
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IainGlasgow,

24/02/2009 13:27:53
#194

The alternative was for the failed Callaghan government to continue. Do you really think Thatcherism was any worse than that prospect?!
130

,

24/02/2009 13:33:38
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TWC,

24/02/2009 13:38:25
203 Second Wind,
Most of the problem between unionists and Nats is because of the irrational fear of the Nu Labour trolls.
No doubt the Financial arguement has been manipulated bu Nu Labour to hide Scotlands wealth but most unionists now accept that there needs to be real Fiscal change. It is Labour trying to avoid this which is losing the Union arguement.
132

The Master,

24/02/2009 13:40:27
#199 "Democratic": there is no "trigger for independence".

The only possibility is that an upsurge in support for the SNP at Westminster might lead the UK Parliament to hold a separation referendum, complete with a fair question, if only to neuter the Nats.
133

AJM,

24/02/2009 13:40:36
#162 Second Wind
The article states he was in the US to promote Scotland, so I am commenting on it.

Only a SNP supporter could ever consider the idea of asking whether the FM ought to be touring the rest of the UK and Ireland to promote Homecoming 2009 as an attempt to stir up anti English feeling. Am I trying to stire up anti Welsh and Irish feeling at the same time?

"The English know where Scotland is" so that is your idea of promoting the country is it south of the border and the rest of the UK. Pathetic.

I am sure that those inclined to come to Scotland from the US also know where it is, so why bother.

134

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24/02/2009 13:41:38
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,

24/02/2009 13:45:34
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TWC,

24/02/2009 13:48:03
"I get even more points when I point out that the First Liar, Hypocrite and Traitor is a liar, hypocrite and traitor".

SMee that is Gordon Brown you are describing
137

Grahamski,

Falkirk 24/02/2009 13:52:00
213
You seem confused.
Mr Salmond is the FIRST minister so is the First Liar, Hypocrite and Traitor.
Mr Brown is our Prime Minister.
Understand now?
138

,

24/02/2009 13:53:51
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Grahamski,

Falkirk 24/02/2009 13:57:00
218
Oh stop it.
140

,

24/02/2009 13:57:53
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The Master,

24/02/2009 13:58:20
#212 "Democratic": "#207 so Master you are saying just as in Ireland ,or palestine , Cyprus , Aden et al no matter the democratic wish of the people the Westminster Parliament would to quote you rig the referendum at best but just ignore the democratic desire of Scotland"

That's rich, coming from a supporter of a party that insists on soft peddling the separation to point of meaningless with the "consultative" question about whether the SG should "open negotiations".

How would ignoring the SNP equate to ignoring the democratic desire of Scotland? It would if the SNP were a one issue pressure group, but we both know there's a great deal more to it than that.
142

RufusT-Firefly,

24/02/2009 13:58:25
163 sm753,24/02/2009 12:22:25
161
RTF
Have you noticed the Nattists are getting more and more bitter these days?
====================================================

Yes indeed.

When they either get refused a referendum, or lose a referendum one can envisage a civil war breaking out.

Minority rules sm753, did you not know that?
143

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24/02/2009 13:59:22
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TWC,

24/02/2009 14:06:47
223 RufusT-Firefly/ Smee

With full fiscal autonomy it may be possible to beat the independence referendum but under no circumstance should Union parties block the referendum.
Scots would immediately take this as anti the Scots voters..
A positive case is the only way and Labour stopped making that case 8 years ago and need to get back to it.
145

frank mcbride,

lusitania 24/02/2009 14:07:24
#213, TWC.

No, TWC, that's sm753/AM2 describing himself.

You may notice, as I said in a previous comment, to argue with AM2/sm753 you must, firstly, agree with him.

Whatever you do, don't quote sources that disagree with it, as they will, obviously, be unacceptable because AM2/sm753 says so.

AM2/sm753's Rules of Debate:

1. Anyone choosing to debate must agree that I'm correct.

2. All source material must be approved by me, before use.

3. When confronted by unpalatable truths, ignore them or, have another of my personas respond in my defence.

4. When requested to answer a simple question, answer something else while accusing the questioner of stupidity, ignorance or prejudice.
146

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24/02/2009 14:07:59
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Alasdair mac Alasdair Mór Mac an Righ,,

24/02/2009 14:20:17
#189, The Master.

Well that is me convinced. If the Master says that Smee is not AM2 then it must be true. The Splendid Master definitely knows who AM2 is.

Rufus T Firefly
Snp Hypocrisy
Grahamski
Duncan in Edinburgh
WU Merchant
Churchill W

So what about the other spineless knee dwellers. Are they just individual citizens supporting a corrupt union for the benefit for themselves, political party zeolots or Scotsman employee's.

At times I wonder if they believe there beloved corrupt union will last as they claim or do they accept the tide of independence will sweep them away.

My favourite unionist gimmick is the daily disposable moniker. One that quotes all day in AM2 fashion then disappears. They are really clever.








148

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24/02/2009 14:20:30
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AJM,

24/02/2009 14:20:48
#214 Has that TV advert promoting Scotland featuring "Scot of the Year" still only been shown on ITV in Scotland? What is the point of only advertising Scotland to the Scottish for Homecoming 2009?

You must be in charge, as they seem to be leaving it to the English to find there own way here with no encouragment.

Still though I have know idea how your brain gets from my request that the FM tours England, Wales and Ireland promoting Homecoming 2009 as stirring up anti-English feeling? But if I knew I would only be dismayed at the synapse disfunction.
150

Davie08,

Edinburgh 24/02/2009 14:29:04
#211 Smee traitor to what exactly?
151

frank mcbride,

lusitania 24/02/2009 14:30:03
#233, AJM.

And know one noes the secret of your "black magic" box!!! Nor, even if your synapses are functioning, at all.
152

brownlie,

24/02/2009 14:31:00
Would some-one like to explain to the clown Grahamski what Prime means in Prime Minister?
153

Alex,

Ellon 24/02/2009 14:35:33
Methinks the unionist vomit over Eck's visit barely registers with a faint twitch in his left eyebrow these days ..yawn .
154

frank mcbride,

lusitania 24/02/2009 14:36:02
#235, Davie08.

A traitor to AM2/sm753's distorted view of the world.

If you read my #229, you will get some insight into the personas of AM2/sm753, and should indicate what response you will receive.
155

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24/02/2009 14:40:10
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The Master,

24/02/2009 14:42:39
#224 Democratic:
"What is concerning here is Grahamski Master et al saying that even if majority vote for independence there is no way Westminster will allow it >>> mm interesting"

Yes, I would agree with that. Westminster would be perfectly justified in disregarding a single majority vote. Major constitutional change, such as the Nats have apparently convinced themselves is in Scotland's best interests, would require resounding endorsements of a fair referendum question on at least 3 separate occasions.

You're living in Lalaland, Demo!

#231: it's entirely within the Scotsman's posting rules to have more than one moniker, so shut it!
157

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24/02/2009 14:46:29
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,

24/02/2009 14:52:03
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frank mcbride,

lusitania 24/02/2009 15:06:55
#244, The Master.

Very Empire!!!

"Might is Right". - Democracy Brit-style!!!
160

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 24/02/2009 15:09:49
249 You've contradicted yourself again, It wouldn't matter as long as they get the majority, or are we going to have one of those unionist moments of conversion on the road to Damascus?

161

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24/02/2009 15:09:55
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24/02/2009 15:14:57
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The Master,

24/02/2009 15:15:07
#245 "Democratic": "#244 Have you any idea of the ramifications if Westminster denied the democratic will of the Scottish nation?"

Assuming I agree with you that this would be the case, please elucidate me as to what these "ramifications" would be. I can't begin to imagine what your on about, speaking personally.
164

frank mcbride,

lusitania 24/02/2009 15:16:12
#249, AM2/sm753.

On what basis is the Westminster Government chosen?

On what premis(es) does the chosen Westminster Government decide on its legislative programme??

What gives Westminster its authority to abitrarily change the rules - a majority of the Scots elected WMPs voting for the re-establishment of Scottish Independence is sufficient???

If not, why not???

Was this process not sufficient to bring the Union about?
165

The Master,

24/02/2009 15:18:16
#246 "Democratic": the Nats' " moral and legal right to negotiate Independence" would hold about as much water as Robbie's right to declare himself a "Pictish Free State" LMAO
166

frank mcbride,

lusitania 24/02/2009 15:21:18
#255, The Master.

The "ramifications" will be the same as 1919, Glasgow, when the "great" W. Churchill invaded the city with Imperial troops.

It would appear that this would be consistent with your Empire attitude.
167

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 24/02/2009 15:22:36
255 The legal, political or downright nasty. All of which usually follow a democratic mandate being ignored.
168

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24/02/2009 15:28:19
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frank mcbride,

lusitania 24/02/2009 15:29:03
#258, The Master.

Thank you for your candour.

It is heartening to read that the Union will be preserved using well tried and tested Empire methods.

Most people have not believed this suggestion, up till this point. But, thanks to you, and your very able supporters, you by your emphasis on anti-democratic methods, ordinary people are wakenening up to the real threat that is being posed.
170

RufusT-Firefly,

24/02/2009 15:32:27
265 20th Century boy,24/02/2009 15:30:10
He looks SOOOO handsome and i'm SOOOO proud to be a jock.
============================================

20th Century Gay Boy (with very low standards).
171

frank mcbride,

lusitania 24/02/2009 15:38:36
#266, Rumpus (in his own head).

A Change of Guard, Rumpus?

I wonder who your tag-partner will be???
172

RufusT-Firefly,

24/02/2009 15:39:15
Good afternoon Frank.

Have a guess?
173

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24/02/2009 15:39:43
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Alathea,

24/02/2009 15:45:31
Once again, a clear indication that the First Minister is carrying out duties that are commensurate with the good of Scotland.
As the world recovers from this recession, green energy sources are going to be like hens teeth with the market in carbon trading becoming more and more important to international growth. With Scotland being well placed to benefit from this, it is no suprise that common ground on the subject will be found between the 2 countries.

Although I am suprised that the article does not include a quote from some Labour MSP condemning the visit as a showboating exercise in futility where gargantuan portions of burgers and chillidogs were consumed putting a strain on AS's waistband and the Scottish budget.

frank mcbride,lusitania, - you cannot argue with a construct such as SM753/AM2/Master as their Ulster Unionist mindset denies them the lucid views of free thinkers. Anyway it will soon be their favourite month - March.
175

RufusT-Firefly,

24/02/2009 15:48:49
269 DemocraticScot,Europe 24/02/2009 15:39:43
#266 anti democrtaic now homophobic huh RTF.
===================================================

Homophobic? What are you on about?

176

The Master,

24/02/2009 15:54:00
#263 "Democratic": " You have always maintained that there was no need for referendum because the majority voted for unionist parties"

Correction: I have always maintained that there is no need for a referendum because neither Holyrood nor Westminster politicians have to date voted one into law.

The SNP looks very unlikely to be able to persuade the SP to lend its support to a rigged "consultative" referendum and the Nats would never be able to command sufficient support at Westminster to enable this to happen: end of!
177

RufusT-Firefly,

24/02/2009 15:57:20
20th Century Boy has just been spotted in a shopping centre.......................

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7908376.stm
178

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 24/02/2009 16:00:41
273 Contradiction in your narrative, again what's rigged about the question?

Do you think we should have a 40% rule like in the 79 referendum?
179

RufusT-Firefly,

24/02/2009 16:01:09
Careful what you say sm753.

All the wailing Nattz with gnashing teeth will be on in a minute demanding you face the death penalty for receiving threats!
180

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24/02/2009 16:03:38
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RufusT-Firefly,

24/02/2009 16:04:00
276 Tormod,Auld Reekie 24/02/2009 16:00:41
Do you think we should have a 40% rule like in the 79 referendum?
====================================================

More than 50% of the electorate would seem fair.
182

RufusT-Firefly,

24/02/2009 16:06:03
278 20th Century boy,24/02/2009 16:02:39
#266 Fly
Anytime you care to meet ,just me and you,name your place (no hiding behind keyboards)we'll soon find out who the gay boy is you spineless fu*cker.
=====================================================

I think I see where you are coming from.

What would you propose to do if such a meeting took place?
183

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 24/02/2009 16:09:47
280 In agree, we would require 50% of those on the voter register to vote against the proposal after all it's only being consistent :-)
184

RufusT-Firefly,

24/02/2009 16:10:50
20th Century Boy I see your obvious threat of violence has been moderated.

Not surprising really.

Do you think that was the right thing to do?
185

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24/02/2009 16:11:01
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186

RufusT-Firefly,

24/02/2009 16:12:14
283 Tormod,Auld

The onus is on the side that is changing the status quo, to show they have a majority I would have thought.
187

RufusT-Firefly,

24/02/2009 16:13:56
285 Quisling Gogs,24/02/2009 16:11:01
Have you noticed the comments have started being removed once dung appears on the scene.
Funny that.
=====================================================

One comment has been removed as it was clearly a threat of violence. Would you expect the moderator to ignore it?
188

frank mcbride,

lusitania 24/02/2009 16:16:49
#274, AM2/sm753.

What a sordid, little mind you have.

Firstly you have stated that your intention is to incite.

Secondly, when no-one bites you invoke "Godwin's Law", as if the reference was unfounded.

a) You have stated that your intention is to incite; a sentiment agreed with by The Master,

b) The Master advocates Empire methods of "Democracy": Might is Right.

Godwin's Law is indeed proved, but that does not, in itself, make the observation invalid.

Thirdly, you impute, implied violence with no basis for this.
Where is the "implied violence" in the comment?

Where is your integrity???
189

RufusT-Firefly,

24/02/2009 16:18:35
Frank.

AM2 is not sm753.

Trust me!
190

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 24/02/2009 16:21:40
287 Rufus I was being a tad to subtle or you are to young to remember in the 79 referendum, there was a clause inserted into the bill that said that 40% of the entire electoral roll had to vote yes.

Not just a simple majority of yes votes that is good enough for every other election, nope it wasn't good enough for Westminster.

So I merely used the same logic but reversed it using your total that it would take 50% of the entire electoral roll to vote against the proposal.

Well if it was sauce for the goose..


Or we could have a straightforward count of the votes and the most votes wins.

It has been noted that gerrymandering referendum seems to be a Westminster speciality.
191

The Master,

24/02/2009 16:24:26
#276 Tormod: "273 Contradiction in your narrative, again what's rigged about the question?"

The talk about "negotiations" sounds like the Nats are proposing some kind of a "talking shop" with Westminster and polls have shown that many mistakenly say "yes" to it on that basis when, in actual fact, separatists like you see the vote as being as conclusive as a "separation: yes or no" type question.

It's Nat friendly and it's rigged: end of! I've called on the Nats to drop the rigged question in the name of democracy and I repeat that plea. The proper way to proceed is through a fair question set by Westminster, if they are so minded.
192

Geomac 1,

Scotland 24/02/2009 16:28:57
I'll bet Hillary was fair chuffed at meeting the saviour of all Scotland?
I'm suprised that she managed to thole him for 20 minutes!
193

Alasdair mac Alasdair Mór Mac an Righ,,

24/02/2009 16:31:01
244The Master, 24/02/2009 14:42:39

... Westminster would be perfectly justified in disregarding a single majority vote. Major constitutional change, such as the Nats have apparently convinced themselves is in Scotland's best interests, would require resounding endorsements of a fair referendum question on at least 3 separate occasions.

You're living in Lalaland, Demo!

#231: it's entirely within the Scotsman's posting rules to have more than one moniker, so shut it!

=========================================
Unlike you Master de Bater, I do not take orders and nor do I follow them from jump up wee unionist trolls.

I am glad to see your admission that you post under several monikers. I laugh at you almost as much as I pity you.

What a pathetic wee troll you are, having conversations with yourself, faking others, displaying fake outrage.

you are no better than a spineless little rent a mob. shame for you is you actually believe in the rhetoric your masters have provided.

Other flaws in you personality show in your selection of monikers. Powerful men from UK where you are in turn an 8 stone wee boy.

Your next moniker should be "Yes Master"
194

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 24/02/2009 16:35:05
293 Aye lad..

Quote :- "The talk about "negotiations" sounds like the Nats are proposing some kind of a "talking shop" with Westminster and polls have shown that many mistakenly say "yes" to it on that basis when, in actual fact, separatists like you see the vote as being as conclusive as a "separation: yes or no" type question.

It's Nat friendly and it's rigged: end of! I've called on the Nats to drop the rigged question in the name of democracy and I repeat that plea. The proper way to proceed is through a fair question set by Westminster, if they are so minded."

So either all your dugs are not barking or you are at the windup?
195

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 24/02/2009 16:39:58
293 I think your man SM753 has been poking you too much with his cattle prod!
196

The Master,

24/02/2009 16:44:06
#299 Alasdair: I shall make you honourary president of my fan club!

I am a serious poster with something to say and I will be heard! I cannot and will not stand back and allow the anti Scottish SNP to destroy Scotland's well being and future prosperity through the nonsense which passes for a separation policy and the chippy rantings which only serve to make Scotland a laughing stock both in the UK and the wider world.

#300: hit a raw nerve, have I? The Na*z "consultative" referendum is a rigged travesty of democracy and I do wish it was all a "wind up" as you put it!
197

,

24/02/2009 16:45:32
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
198

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 24/02/2009 16:53:26
305 The only nerve you hit, is the single synaptic path that you use for your argument.

It is not rigged, it's worded so that it is legal within the confines of the Scotland Act. This has been communicated to you several times.

We should leave the question and the act to Westminster as they have such a wonderful track record of transparency and probity for elections and especially referendum.
199

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 24/02/2009 16:59:51
#1 Rufus

Because you're a moron?
200

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 24/02/2009 17:06:47
312 I imagine that private discussions between the FM and SOS would have elements of the FM sounding out the Obama administration on an Independent Scotland.
201

The Master,

24/02/2009 17:07:07
307. Tormod: as the Nats only have the powers to hold a "consultative" referendum, they should drop the whole plan now, as the only wording the lawyers will allow effectively means that the whole thing is rigged and will have all the credibility of one of Mugabe's efforts.

Drop this folly now, SNP! Any "yes" result on this basis will do your cause few favours and the Master is appealing to you!
202

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 24/02/2009 17:12:45
312 I should have added, I don't think any other nation is going to get the huff if Scotland was Independent.

I mean imagine if Scotland was Independent, does anybody think America would shout boo hiss democracy is rubbish.

I don't think so either.
203

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 24/02/2009 17:18:32
314 Right so staying within the confines of the law is setting a rigged question, okay then that's a wee bit different.

I think you'll find it will have a wee bit more credibility that a Mugabe style referendum or election.

Master I'll look forward to you joining the campaign trail in Autumn 2010.
204

Brian Hill,

24/02/2009 17:19:14
#65 Tin Man says:
"It is a sad reflection of our prevailing insularity that the comments there are entirely devoted to Salmond meeting with Hillary, rather than the substance of the subject that was discussed."

That's a very important point you make T M. It show the importance of Scotland's First Minister acting like other world leaders.

And that's precisely why the unionists hate it. They rightly believe the more the Scots see Salmond behaving like other leaders of Independent countries the more Scots will begin to see themselves as being Independent and therefore the easier it will be for them to vote for Independence.

(A leading unionist confessed last night belonging to a new self help group set up to help unionists who are fighting the desire to embrace Scottish Independence.

'I know it's abnormal and very very wrong, but I can't help myself' wailed another. The arguments are too strong and isn't Salmond magnifice'.......Rufus, increase that man's medication immediately!!)
205

Hugh Roscombe,

24/02/2009 17:21:41
Same old same old.
206

Observer,,

Glasgow 24/02/2009 17:23:45
317 I thought you were off Smee?

That's another bwoken pwomith.
207

Observer,,

Glasgow 24/02/2009 17:26:07
314 Dream on if there is a yes vote in the referendum no -one will be talking about Robert Mugabe.

Why should we hang around and wait for Westminster ?
208

,

24/02/2009 17:28:05
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209

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 24/02/2009 17:33:49
318 SM753 even for you to try and conflate the Texas V White case against an Independent Scotland is stretching the bounds of imagination to infinity + 1.

Mind you that is your speciality subject.

As for your comment at 313, I was responding to a question from Daniel, I have no idea what was discussed do you?

An internal UK matter oh dear. Another contradiction, you posted a quote from Lord Kerr at 112 about the dangers of an Independent Scotland to America and the UK.

If it's such a danger as you have indicated at 112 surely the SOS would have had it at the top of the agenda?

210

The Master,

24/02/2009 17:35:08
#319 Tormod: "314 Right so staying within the confines of the law is setting a rigged question, okay then that's a wee bit different."

The Nats are adhering to what they're legally allowed to do, I'll give them that, but my objection is that by so doing they are riding roughshod over democracy.

The sensible solution is to leave it to Westminster to ask a comprehensible question, if they are so minded. I repeat that the Nats' question is *rigged* to the extent that, while it may be legal, it's wording has been so tampered with by the lawyers as to mean that asking it will serve no useful purpose.

Is the Master right, or is the Master right!
211

European Scot,

24/02/2009 17:36:31
314 The Master

" Drop this folly now, SNP! Any "yes" result on this basis will do your cause few favours and the Master is appealing to you!"

With all due respect, but it's highly unlikely that you've ever appealed to anyone in the SNP, try lower down the evolutionary scale. It might work with some Unionists, who tend to buy into your 'Na*z*' word association nonsense !
212

,

24/02/2009 17:39:31
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Reason:
213

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 24/02/2009 17:39:37
316 Oh dear we wouldn't want democracy to weaken the UK would we? Imagine the howls of anger from every corner of the globe.

327 I have no idea what they have discussed, it's possible that topic was touched on and parked for another time.

As for those other issues again I have no idea.
214

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 24/02/2009 17:41:45
330 I repeat dugs or wind-up which is it?
215

British flag,

24/02/2009 17:43:14
324. "Dream on if there is a yes vote in the referendum no -one will be talking about Robert Mugabe.

Why should we hang around and wait for Westminster ?"

So, put your money where your mouth is,what are you jockos going to do about it when you're ignored? Cameron has said he'll do "everything and anything" to preserve the union,so are you fishing for a fight,if you are then you'll certainly have one,lol
216

The Master,

24/02/2009 17:47:00
335. Tormod: what is it exactly about what I've said that makes you think I'm either on drugs or on the wind up?

I'm waiting!
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Tormod,

Auld Reekie 24/02/2009 17:48:31
336 Aye this one is the dugs.
218

Observer,,

Glasgow 24/02/2009 17:49:31
336 ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

Decent trolls only please, boring applicants need not re-apply.
219

The Master,

24/02/2009 17:50:06
333 Democratic: do you wish me to negotiate with my girlfriend as to whether we should stay together?

That's not the same as asking whether you think it's a good idea that we are a couple in the first place! Get it?
220

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 24/02/2009 17:50:29
338 Dugs, I wrote dugs.

Well your postings have given myself more than a wee bit of an idea that is the case.

So tell me Master what is Democracy?
221

Daveunderwater,

Creative Scotland's National Party 24/02/2009 17:50:52
The proposals, outlined in the Queen’s Speech just two months ago, and championed by Harriet Harman, the deputy Labour leader, are at risk after Lord Mandelson, the Business Secretary, and the Chancellor called for a moratorium on any measures that would add to the current financial pressure on businesses. Right-to-roam legislation and powers to allow councils to ban alcohol promotions are also under threat as the Government prepares to gut its legislative programme in the face of the recession.

So LABOUR DO A U TURN ON BANNING ALCOHOL PROMOTIONS

And surprise no Headline in The Scotsman
222

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 24/02/2009 17:51:41
338 I'll add what is Democracy within the context of Scotland?
223

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 24/02/2009 17:56:17
337 Did you know that the UK government took a very long pension holiday from contributing to the Royal Mail pension fund, and my goodness they wonder why there is such a shortfall, with great minds like these we can all sleep comfortable at night.
224

The Master,

24/02/2009 18:11:15
#342 Tormod: "democracy" comes from the Greek, meaning "people rule" but, as that was only possible in ancient Athens, we have a system whereby the public elect MPs or MSPs to decide on their behalf.

They have decided on behalf of the people (very sensibly) that the Nats' separation policy is a non starter, hence it looks very much like they will not be supporting either the Nats' *rigged* "consultative" referendum in the SP or a fairly worded question set by Westminster.

What's your problem with that?
225

Observer,,

Glasgow 24/02/2009 18:22:57
349 You have described the constitutional position in England O Master. It's different here, there is no equivalent constitutional sovereignty of Parliament, it's the people who are sovereign. So we don't actually need Westminster, to be frank.

Ask Smee about it, he'll chunter on about pillar boxes a bit but he'll confirm the ruling of the court of session, which has never been reversed.
226

brownlie,

24/02/2009 18:24:30
349

Do these MPs/MSPs have an form of consultation with those in their constituencies or will they vote the way their party tells me to do irrespective of their constituent's wishes?

There are possibly quite a few constituents who would wish their representatives to vote for a referendum.
227

The Master,

24/02/2009 18:29:41
#352 Brownlie: that's not the way the parliamentary system in the UK necessarily works, but it doesn't make the country any less democratic.

If constituents are unhappy with the decisions which their MP/MSP takes on their behalf then they can express their views at the ballot box.
228

The Master,

24/02/2009 18:31:25
#353 Peter: Britain is a fully democratic state.

You may prefer some utopia of your own, but there the current system does meet all the essential criteria of a modern democracy.
229

brownlie,

24/02/2009 18:53:17
354

My point was, will it be a free vote or are the Party Leaders in Scotland be able to categorically say to the Scottish Government all our MSPs will vote against a referendum?

I am aware that, privately, at least two Labour MSPs want a referendum.
230

European Scot,

24/02/2009 18:54:47
352 brownlie

" There are possibly quite a few constituents who would wish their representatives to vote for a referendum."

Sorry brownlie but that's beginning to smack of real democracy.
We mustn't undermine Westminster's will by allowing such freedoms.
Who knows where it may lead.

354 The Master

" If constituents are unhappy with the decisions which their MP/MSP takes on their behalf then they can express their views at the ballot box."

Ah such faith in Ballot boxes, and presumably Postal votes.

355

" You may prefer some utopia of your own, but there the current system does meet all the essential criteria of a modern democracy."

As the investigations at Glenrothes will doubtless confirm.
231

frank mcbride,

lusitania 24/02/2009 19:26:15
#355, The Master.

Yes indeed, Master! A fully democratic state!!!

So "democratic" that the Minister for Justice, Mr. J. Straw has just announced that he will override a Court order, requiring the release of the Iraq papers.

Yes indeed, Master! The UK is a fully democratic state - as long as Government ministers agree.
232

Thomas79,

Ayrshire 24/02/2009 21:21:13
RufusT-Firefly & sm 753 are the best weapons the SNP have. Long let their rants continue, while the SNP lead increases. The more they show their hatred the more votes the SNP get.
233

Bullshit, the SNP voter,

24/02/2009 23:07:14
362

You are as thick as a pig's jobby.

 

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