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Published Date: 27 June 2008
ALEX Salmond yesterday threw his support behind plans for Scotland's first state-funded Islamic school, to be submitted to councillors in Glasgow.
Senior Muslim community leaders are preparing a detailed case for the school, which organisers say will "teach Islamic values" and will be delivered later in the summer.

It is the first serious attempt to establish a state-funded Islamic school in
Scotland, and is believed to have strong chance of success, with the First Minister yesterday suggesting such a step was simply a matter of time.

Scotland already has state-funded Catholic, Episcopalian and Jewish schools, and there is strong support among the country's estimated 80,000 Muslims for their own faith school.

But the move is likely to be controversial, and some believe that the plan may harm integration between Muslim and non-Muslim communities.

Four schools in Glasgow already have a roll that is comprised of at least 90 per cent Muslim children, and organisers say there is "demand" from Muslim parents for a faith school.

Speaking after the launch of the Scottish Islamic Foundation yesterday, Mr Salmond told The Scotsman there was a "clear" argument for Islamic schools.

He said: "I'm supportive. Obviously, it's a council responsibility and that process has been made quite clear.

"The application will be made to the council, and the council will judge whether there is a consistent degree of support in terms of creating a Muslim school within the state sector in Scotland within weeks.

"There is a great deal of work to be done. It's in everybody's interests to ensure the first state Muslim school in Scotland is a resounding success."

He added: "The argument seems very clear. In Scotland, we have a large number of Catholic schools, we have several Episcopalian churches and we have a Jewish school.

"These are all highly successful elements of faith education in Scottish society. The critical matter in terms of Scottish education is, if we have faith schools, they must be within the state sector.

"People have the freedom to establish faith schools outside the sector, but they haven't had a tremendous record of success.

"I'm supportive but the council has to test a sustainable level of demand in the community."

Osama Saeed, chief executive of the Scottish Islamic Foundation, said a detailed submission was being prepared and would be handed to Glasgow council leaders towards the end of the summer.

"There is demand. Enough Muslim parents want to see it happen. It will be good for the education system to have extra diversity."

He added: "We are not pitching for a 'Muslim school'. There are already four schools in Glasgow which are 90 per cent Muslim. We are talking about an Islamic school, a school that has a certain ethos."

Mr Saeed would not detail the plans, but he said he has researched a number of Islamic schools in England, where children are taught the Koran, girls wear the hijab, and boys and girls are segregated.

Muslim leader urges believers to promote fairness and peace

OSAMA Saeed yesterday said he was determined to make Islam "a force for good" in Scotland.

The chief executive of the Scottish Islamic Foundation said the body aimed to promote the "progressive" elements inherent in the Islamic faith, including freedom and social justice.

He also dismissed criticism from the Centre for Social Cohesion, a right-wing think tank, which claims it represents a "narrow form of political Islam" that has been discredited.

Critics have accused Mr Saeed of advancing "hard-line" Islamic views. But he rejected claims he had links to the extremist Muslim Brotherhood.

"I've never been involved in the Muslim Brotherhood," he said. "Why don't people judge us on what we say and do?"

He stressed he wanted Scottish Muslims to reach out to the Muslim world "to build peace".





The full article contains 646 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 26 June 2008 10:07 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
 
1

JG,

Fife 27/06/2008 00:58:37
There shouldn't be ANY religion based schools. The local authority should provide a school in each area, as required, for the local children to be educated in and everyone should attend it. Would integration not be best served by integrating people?
2

Allan(handofgod137),

27/06/2008 01:11:27
Headline should read "Salmond loses more votes"

Keep religion out of schools.
3

Ned,

Morningside 27/06/2008 01:23:35
The school wants to " teach Islamic values " .
Sorry Mr Salmond , I think I would like a school to teach a wee bit different from that.
It wont help " social cohesion ".
For the record I would like all schools to be secular.
There has been enough tension between the " orange " and the " green" for far to many years and seperate schools has not helped " social cohesion "

As for Dear Leader Salmond was this part of your election platform ????????

Once again the taxpayers havent been consulted.
4

cambayne,

Kuala Lumpur 27/06/2008 02:00:22
Alex Salmond is demonstrating poor logic.

If Roman Catholics are permitted a separate state-funded schooling system then it is logical that Muslims should be allowed the same privilege. However when we view the bigotry, violence and intolerance that results from education segregatet on religious grounds surely the answer is to deny all faiths state-funded religious schools.

Religion should be kept out of educational establishment and indeed out of politics. If parents wish to indoctrinate their children that their
religious view is correct and all others are false, this should be done outwith school hours.

The education of all children in the same system, without segregation on religious grounds, will encourage tolerance and prosperity.

It is time to correct the error of the past and outlaw segregated education on relious grounds.
5

arkletten,

Edinburgh 27/06/2008 02:12:55
What a blatant bare-faced liar! He's never had links with the Muslim Brotherhood? He invited Kemal Helbawy to give a course at his fancy new institute, the Scottish Islamic Foundation only last month! Helbawy is the European leader of the Muslim Brotherhood.

The Muslim Association of Britain is a front for the Muslim Brotherhood. Saeed was its spokesman in Scotland for several years.

Does he think we're stupid?

Saeed is an out and out Islamist who wants to make us second class citizens in our own land (this is sharia for non-Muslims, or 'nothings') and inflict this totalitarian ideology on Scottish children, making a ghetto in Pollokshields the first European Islamic,Republic!

This is despicable.

Salmond needs to go now.

Let's all give our support to City of Glasgow Council.
6

arkletten,

Glasgow 27/06/2008 02:23:10
'Allah is our objective.
The messenger is our leader.
Quran is our law.
Jihad is our way.
Dying in the way of Allah is our highest hope.'

This is the programme of the Muslim Brotherhood and all Islamists. This is what will be rolled out in the Islamic Caliphate of Pollokshields unless we can stop them.

Wha' sae base sae be a slave!
7

KampungHighlander,

Jakarta 27/06/2008 02:33:33
#1 Jock McDoc

"Is it not a bit hypocritical that the present UK government and I would presume that the Scottish government is trying to promote a society of equality between the sexes yet they are going to allow a school that forces girls to be different from boys through headscarves" Is it not a bit hypocritical that the present UK government and I would presume that the Scottish government is trying to promote a society of equality between the sexes yet they are going to allow a school that forces girls to be different from boys through headscarves and have the right to mix with boys removed?

Some schools even force girls to wear skirts as part of the uniform, and make the boys where trousers. Very sexist. We should allow the girls to wear trousers and the boys should be allowed to wear kilts.

"and have the right to mix with boys removed?"

I didn't know that was a right? Is it one of those new EU rights? I better keep my head down, I sent my eldest daughter to an all girls Catholic school in Glasgow, if she complains I might get charged with violating her right to mix with boys.

We would probably sent her to a secular all girls school if such a thing existed. It is a well documated fact that girls do better academicaly when they are not exercising their "right to mix with boys.

As far as allowing an Islamic faith based school, I dont see how you can avoid it as long as the state funds other religious based schools. As long as they maintain standards, don't discriminate against people of other faiths that wish to attend, teach plurilism and stick to the national curriculim. Then I dont see how in all fairness anyone can object.
8

!Ya basta!,

27/06/2008 03:32:23
Agree with Cambayne #6

I don't know if Salmond really believes in what he is doing or if this his another one of his clever tricks for some political end. Either way, its a mistake.

We need to get rid of religious schools. We need teaching not preaching. We need religious education (all major religions of course) at school while religious practice is a personal and private issue.

I am lucky to be in a country with a long long history of religious tolerance even though catholicism, which is alien to this region, interestingly, is viewed with some suspiscion precisely because of its intolerance to indigenous faiths.

My kids are lucky enough to be at an international school with children from many countries and faiths. It is secular but has religious education and the kids take part in each others festivals.

Perhaps surprisingly, their identity as Scots is reinforced in this environment in a positive way. They think about what makes them Scottish (or British if you prefer) and they also learn to accept and appreciate difference in a non-judgemental way.

I think the message is that integration actually leads not only to greater tolerance and acceptance through kids learning and playing together but it can also strengthen a kids own identity in a really positive way by making them see what it is they bring to a world of many views and opinions.

The circumstances are different in Scotland but this is exactly the type of environment we need to build in our schools. Yet another religious school is exactly the wrong direction.
9

Fanling,

Switzerland 27/06/2008 03:57:28
"... the move is likely to be controversial, and some believe that the plan may harm integration between Muslim and non-Muslim communities ..."

Controversial? I'll say. And many more will say so, I am sure. Integration between Muslim and non-Muslim communities is a politician's myth, and forever will be in a shameless quest for votes. Islam has a precise agenda which is inimical to the western (Christian or secular) societies they choose to feast upon. Muslims do not, and will never integrate, with Christian or non-Islamic society.

Alex Salmond, listen hard. Your party has just lost my vote in the next election by your endorsement of this utterly irresponsible and foolhardy idea. In Scotland, as in England, the issue of "faith schools" is and always will be, eternally divisive. The notion of Islamic schools in Scotland is a bridge too far. What a bloody stitch-up. Shame on you, Salmond. The voters thought you were different. Like hell.

#9 KampungHighlander,Jakarta

If you believe that it's tickety-boo that they (Muslims) "don't discriminate against people of other faiths ..." then you are living in Cloud-Cuckoo-Land. Before you refute that, one of my professional colleagues is a (Christian) university professor from Jakarta, teaching now in another university in Indonesia. She has unedifying personal knowledge of Islamic discrimination towards others in her homeland.

10

W Smith,

Middle East 27/06/2008 05:40:24
I think we already know what will be 'taught' at these schools - thanks to Salmonds friend Osama Saeed.

"My message to the police is 'lay-off' but my message to the muslim community is WE HAVE GOT TO BE STRONGER IN OUR DEFIANCE OF THIS"

"THERE CAN BE NO EXCUSE FOR BEING SCARED OF THE POLICE. IF WE LOOK TO THE HISTORY OF OUR FAITH WHAT ELSE IS THERE OTHER THAN THE PROPHET'S EXAMPLE TO STAND UP TO TYRANNY AND TO STAND UP TO OPPRESSION"

Osama Saeed, urging muslims in Scotland to defy police and Special Branch, November 2006, Dundee University, just around 6 months before the attack on Glasgow Airport.

Some of us are on to you Mr Salmond.

http://martinkelly.blogspot.com/2006/11/has-osama-saeed-incited-perversion-of.html
11

W Smith,

Middle East 27/06/2008 05:51:02
#9 KampungHighlander

Nice try.

1) The chinese community in Indonesia have been forced to take non-chinese names by the muslim government in Jakarta. How come you live there and don't know this?

2) The Malaysian government will only pay for overseas university education for Malaysian muslim students.

This is despite the fact that the top students at Malaysian High Schools are from the Malaysia's Indian and Chinese community.

Many of these Malayasian students attend Dundee University while only the muslim students will have their fees paid by the Malyasian government while the chinese Malaysians at Dundee Uni pay for their own overseas education.

Funny how the local SNP MSPs in Dundee don't seem to have an issue with that.
12

W Smith,

Middle East 27/06/2008 06:03:01
Interesting how an ex-jihadist, Ed Husain, has labelled Osama Saeed a'bad apple'.

Tom Gallagher, chair of peace studies at Bradford University has branded Osama Saeed "an apologetic hardline advocate of the hardline Islamism".

So what does our naive gullible First Minister do?

He appoints Osama Saeed to a working group on how to rid the Clyde of Trident.

Osama Saeed has also called for the reintroduction of the Caliphate - a global Islamic superpower.


http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article4186363.ece
13

W Smith,

Middle East 27/06/2008 06:12:57
Just in the last few weeks the anti-NATO, anti-Trident communists were demonstrating in Brussels recently chanting "Liberty for Palestine".

As the lefties in the West don't have the Soviet Union to support they have moved in with the american-hating rabid muslim extremists for some kind of political advantage or leverage.

So we should all know which direction the SNP are going in.

In my opnion, Alex Salmond is a snivelling anti-NATO, Palestinian supporting, fifth column leftie.

This is the same Salmond who can't be seen supporting our Scottish soldiers in Afghanistan and whose supporters kept telling us on this forum that the war in Afghanistan was "illegal".

Salmond has no problem hanging out with Osama Saeed and Unionist George Galloway.


14

Tatties ower the side,

Johannesburg 27/06/2008 06:20:26
Have we learned nothing from the tragedies of Northern Ireland in the past and the outright bigotry in the West Of Scotland?

Separation of children on religious grounds breeds mistrust and ultimate hatred. How can separating Muslim children into their own little enclave possibly help them integrate into Scottish life?
15

Guga II,

Rockall 27/06/2008 06:24:38
#2 JG. Totally agree. Religious based schools are divisive, and should not be funded by public monies.

16

Boy Wonder,

27/06/2008 07:02:49
I see no reason for "faith" schools. Not with State support. School is no place for religion. Religion is not for children. That's just brainwashing ... which should no longer be acceptable in this day and age.

Put an end to Faith Schools ... now!
17

donald,

glasgow 27/06/2008 07:11:30
As a supporter and admirer of Alex Salmond I believe he is making a mistake here, however well intentioned. Segregated schools only lead to segregated societies.
18

yockel,

27/06/2008 07:13:02
Religion - education - oxymoron.
Religion - brainwashing - tautology

Perhaps we do need to watch our backs but Prof. Tom Gallagher - funding - Westminster Foundation for Democracy - Pinch of Salt.

One thing our Muslim brothers have shown us is
cheap and easily availbile booze immediately to hand does not turn you in to a binge drinking gutter dweller. Kenny McAss take note.

19

Geoff,

sa 27/06/2008 07:29:30
21 Donald Glasgow-agree that faith based schools are not a good idea and that this is a rare mistake by Salmond but as a Unionist I quietly mutter "Thank god for small mercies!"
20

Unimpressed one,

27/06/2008 07:56:19
So much for a new start for Scotland. Salmond is demonstrating his party's total distain of people's wishes. Whilst his totally ignorant luddite stance on matters relating to power generation and GM crops, only demonstrates to the rest of the world how backward the country would be if it was independent.
21

Biker,

Ayr 27/06/2008 08:31:49
faith schools only highlight differences and should be abolished . Its time for intigration of all creeds and faiths. If you dont want to intigrate, go elsewhere.
22

Mikey,

27/06/2008 09:28:34
Wrong, wrong, wrong!!! We should be looking at ending faith schools, not promoting them! This is a step back, not a step forward. Let's hope that London tells the other parties to vote against this proposal.

23

John S,

27/06/2008 09:43:52
#21 donald: As a Catholic I agree that segregated schools only lead to segregated societies and Alex Salmond is making a mistake, there should be no public funding of religious based schools.
The school, which organisers say will "teach Islamic values".
To Alex Salmond and the Glasgow council leaders read the Koran then make up your mind about "Islamic values" and answer do you want these values to be taught in Scottish schools ? The Koran preaches seperation not integration.
24

Hugo of Garven,

27/06/2008 09:49:46
Religious tolerance is good. Intolerance strengthens fundamentalist leanings.

The problem is how to cope with the hard-line fundamentalists for any of the religions.

Centuries ago it was the fundamentalist Islamic sects which destroyed the moderate Islamist cities like Alexandria in Egypt.

The hardliners are the problem, not the religion.

25

whateverother,

inverness 27/06/2008 10:17:15
As someone who grew up in a protestant area of Northern Ireland, the fascination for sectarian education in the UK never ceases to amaze me.
Personally, I didn't knowingly meet a catholic until I was 14, and I know most of my peers of all religious backgrounds had a similar experience.
Can Mr Salmond .. (or anyone?) give me a good reason why we should perpetuate that kind of experience for future generations.

Surely, if nothing else, the experience in NI should be a gold standard test case for insanity of separating children along cultural/ethnic/religious/any divide for most of their upbringing?

In this particular situation, the fact that there are already many schools with 90% representation from a single background should be worrying.

The fact that 90% is apparently not a high enough percentage for some people should set alarm bells ringing over exactly what difference this will make to the "ethos" and teaching plans?
26

Nikostratos,

27/06/2008 10:20:55
#31

"Can Mr Salmond .. (or anyone?) give me a good reason why we should perpetuate that kind of experience for future generations."

To gain their votes and get elected no more no less.
27

McGinty,

27/06/2008 10:25:24
Reading the comments here, it would seem that that secularists are becoming more like fundamentalists. With some excellent inspection reports on certain faith schools, the issue is not going to go away. Multiculturalism is a disaster, because it hasn't happened. The Sun's interpretation of culture still predominates.
28

Paraclete,

Edinburgh 27/06/2008 10:26:04
How much money will they get in grants !! We cant get grants for a project for disabled and disabled homeless these are the same people that condemn our country. Alex Salmond has a vote loser now
29

bluehead,

edinburgh 27/06/2008 10:58:17
good bye alex salmond,it took me years to be sickened by the evil labour goverment, it only took a few months
to be sickened by the snp
30

Why can't I use my usual name?,

27/06/2008 11:15:08
No religious schools of any persuasion, please. Religion is a matter of personal faith and choice (or should be). Schools should teach ABOUT religions, they should not be defined by (any) one.
31

John S,

27/06/2008 11:19:14
The Glasgow City Council is a Labour Party controlled council so it will be upto that council and not the Scottish Government to decide wether to permit Scotland's first state-funded Islamic school.
32

boudica,

Glasgow 27/06/2008 11:41:00
This is Salmonds paying back the " Asians for Independence " sector of the SNP ...you know the ones ..The ones who are more Scottish than the rest of us ....So How long before he starts promoting Sharia ..
33

cockatiel,

australia 27/06/2008 13:27:45
why any coutry out side of islamic countries is getting beyond belief???they are bein allowed in and setting up there own beliefs and the goverments are bending on knees to comply ???in caSE OF DISCRIMINATION ??THERE IS NO DISCRIMINATION THEY ARE NOT OF THE COUNTRIRS THEY GO TO.wecannot go to there and demmand we set up up a religion . ie church of scotland/england/pesbyterian /etc
kick them out go home and cause problems there which they cannot do

34

Midnight,

Edinburgh 27/06/2008 13:49:09
I fail to see the problem with the Islamic school winning funding. Surely this should be hailed as a step toward equality, and not as a step toward separatism. So what if they educate the boys and girls separately in their school? How does that affect you personally? It's their choice, after all, to educate their children in any way they see fit. This country should be proud that people of all faiths are free to practice their faith and educate their children in peace. The Muslim community is not asking to have a Sharia'a court installed at their school, only that they be able to have a school where Islam is the religion of choice. I have no doubt that children of any faith would be welcome at their school, and would benefit from their style of teaching. At the very least, they wouldn't be a bunch of narrow minded xenophobes.
35

Billious43,

Glasgow 27/06/2008 14:03:32
Grand job Alex. More sectarianism, just what this country needs. I thought you were supposed to be taking us forward? Has the pope slipped you a bung or something and you're now trying to justify educational apartheid by having a free for all on the indoctrination of the next generation? There goes our independence. You've failed Alex, just like all the others that sold this country out throughout history, you've failed
36

TimW1234,

Ottawa, Canada 27/06/2008 14:26:38
There goes the neighbourhood.

I am amused by the phrase, "teach Islamic values".

They have none.
37

john z,

edinburgh 27/06/2008 14:35:55
I have a problem paying in my taxes for a superstitious belief system, that teaches that women are inferior, all unbelievers of Islam should be killed , and homosexuals should be killed.

I was in support of the SNP, but this is just wrong. For many historical reasons, there were catholic schools in Scotland, and they have added to the segregation and bigotry in Scotland. Religious Bigotry starts in School in Scotland.

Supporters of 'faith' schools say they produce better academic results, but this is entirely due to the fact that they are selective.

If this madness goes ahead, the SNP will lose me as a voter. Islam is a religion that teaches hatred of undebeleivers, jews, catholics and homosexuals. I just cannot see how this will help anybody, and will only condemm some Scottish children to a school life of dogma, brainwashing and discrimination. And just think what will happen once they grow up. Think about it.

If people want a muslim school they should pay for it themselves, otherwise use the schools provided by taxpayers.

Don't use the money of normal decent hard working tax payers in Scotland to pay for this backward, outdated, retrograde, foreign, sexist, discriminatory, homophobic, anti-semitic, anti catholic filth.
38

john z,

edinburgh 27/06/2008 14:37:16
This WILL start riots.
39

JG,

Fife 27/06/2008 14:43:39
#43 Midnight
So who do you think will be paying for this? And the children aren't meant to be going to school to learn about "faith" - they're supposed to be learning how to read, write and count.
40

john z,

edinburgh 27/06/2008 14:46:15
Number 43, Midnight,


Quote "At the very least, they wouldn't be a bunch of narrow minded xenophobes."

No but history, and current information on Islamic teaching shows they may well be sexist, homophobic, anti-semitic, racist, and will also have a VERY distorted view of the world. We all know what the real outcome could be, as was evidence in London on 7/7.

I have little time for any religion, but if someone wishes to believe in a magical man in the sky, I don't care. But when people teach 'values' of sexism, homophobia, and anti semitism, then I have a problem.

If an islamic person wishes to self fund such a school I don't care, but I resent MY money being used to teach a religion to schoolkids which wants people such as me dead.

This is Scotland, and Islam whilst tolerated must not become part of our Education system. Take a look at world news, Islam around the world is barbaric. It is wrong, wrong, wrong.
41

Dave from Skye,

Skye 27/06/2008 15:06:11
Insanity.

The last thing the world needs is more faith-based schools. They should all be banned. Look at Northern Ireland. Have faith-based schools helped there? I think not!

Why on earth would any sane person want to see more of these indoctrination centers built?


42

K McDonald,

glasgow 27/06/2008 15:15:49
Us "islamophobes" have been warning about the Muslim Brotherhood's insidious influence on the SNP for many years.

This has been a done deal since the Muslim Brotherhood identified the SNP as a useful political tool with which to further their global Islamist agenda. Saeed's seduction of Salmond is quite remarkable. He has managed to leverage 50,000 or so "muslim" votes to the extent that the SNP leadership believes they can't win an independence vote or election without them.

The political wing of Al-Qaeda's nefarious plot to disarm the UK of it's nuclear weapons, and at the same time weaken it politically by agitating to split the UK, continues apace. I have to hand it to the Muslim Brotherhood, they really know how to exploit and manipulate naive opportunists like Salmond. The SNP have been completely infiltrated by the Muslim Brotherhood. This school will be the first tangible payment on account, many more will follow.

Once upon a time it was Independence within Europe for the SNP. But now it seems like it's time for Independence within the Caliphate.

It will be interesting to hear what Glasgow Council's position is on this matter.


43

A Friend of Fernando Poo,

27/06/2008 15:20:02
I think it would be better to keep superstition out of schools, but I can respect the libertarian ideal that people should be free to set up schools for their children as they choose.

I have to wonder though whether Salmond will prove quite so amenable when the Scientologists and Moonies want to exercise their rights in a similar manner.
44

K McDonald,

glasgow 27/06/2008 15:28:46
43 Midnight,Edinburgh 27/06/2008 13:49:09
>>> The Muslim community is not asking to have a Sharia'a court installed at their school<<<

Not yet midnight, but as sure as night follow's day further demands will be issued. That is problem with Islamism.

Pre-911 most of us knew zilch about Islam and Islamism. Today we all know how their script plays out.
45

Schot,

27/06/2008 16:03:52
Cambayne,

Your logic is reversable. If faith based schools are to be permitted then it should apply to all faiths. Whether it is desirable to remove faith based schools in Scotland is rather irrelevant when we have so many of them that they cannot be removed overnight. It is further complicated by aspirational athiests who send their kids to religious schools simply to achieve a better level of education.

My own view is that faith and knowledge are oil and water, and no religion should be permitted in even secular schools, but I don't expect this to improve overnight and so the same rights should apply to all religions.

"I respect faith, but doubt is what gets you an education." - Mizner
46

,

27/06/2008 16:40:44
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
47

Embra Don,

27/06/2008 17:51:37
Religion and sexual practice should be treated in the same way - whatever gets you through life is fine so long as you
a) only involve consenting adults
b) don't do it in the street and frighten the horses
c)don't try to convert others and PARTICULARLY
d) don't involve children under the age of consent.

Brainwashing children with ANY religion is tantamount to abuse.
48

Ian Hendry,

Boston USA 27/06/2008 18:22:15
Alex you should be advocating the closure of all so called faith schools (actually religion is not faith)and getting children integrated into state schools where children can be taught religions (aka superstitions)plural...
49

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 27/06/2008 19:19:33
I'm totally against state funded faith schools. Education is education and should be taught in schools. Faith is faith and should be taught in faith establishments. Plenty of them doing nothing.

The only religion that should be taught in schools is the history and modern practice of all religion. If these faith schools can't survive in the private sector then tough. Nobody is stopping them trying. But just not on the state, please.
50

monkey man,

27/06/2008 19:46:15
Only ONE Roman Catholic so-called "faith school" in in the top 50 for academic achievement in Scotland.

That says it all.! It is a blatant lie that these schools are better than their State equivalents.

Just why Alex Salmond defends this scandal of education is due to the RC votes he wants from Labour.
51

Raygn,

Stirling 27/06/2008 20:31:27
Salmond has this one wrong and it will damage him. All faith based schools should be done away with. They are nothing more than a breeding ground of intolerance, sectarianism and discrimination.
Haven't we learned anything from watching what is going on around the world.
52

Fanling,

Switzerland 27/06/2008 21:45:53
#51 K McDonald,glasgow

Perceptive post, the truth of which I wish more of our fellow Scots would wake up to.

Saeed's blemished history and insidious plans are well documented. I fear for my country when an otherwise intelligent, but gullible vote-seeking leader falls for the oleaginous charms of an alien. I don't use that term lightly. Saeed's vision is a Scotland beyond anything all Scots persons, unsympathetic to a putative takeover by Muslims, would recognise or endorse. These are troubled times. We should all be concerned.
53

Embra Don,

27/06/2008 22:21:40
Notwithstanding my views on religious education (#56) I am astounded at the contributions trying to link Saeed and the SNP. Just as the right in the states are trying to smear Obama and, no doubt, just what the Scotsman intended. All faith schools must be treated equally as they are all based on the an irrational belief in the same myths. Its not that many years since people were being tortured to death in the name of Christianity, our ancestors were growing rich from slavery and less still since the tribes in Ireland and the Balkans were murdering in the name of God. As for those who believe they have a right to take over other peoples land following a 3000yr old real estate deal with god. The loonies in all religions are dangerous. Singling out one is invidious.
54

Iftikhar,

Forest Gate London 27/06/2008 22:29:56
Salaam

London School of Islamics is an educational Trust. Its aim is to make
British public, institutions and media aware of the needs and demands of the
Muslim community in the field of education and possible solutions.

Slough Islamic school Trust Slough had a seminar on Muslim
education and schools in Thames Valley Atheltic Centre. The seminar was
addressed by the education spokesman of MCB. I could not attend the seminar
but I believe lot of Muslims from Slough and surrounding areas must have
attended. Very soon, the Muslims of Slough will have a state funded Muslim
school but there is a need for more schools. A day will come when all Muslim
children will attend state funded Muslim schools with bilingual Muslim
teachers as role model.

Muslim schools are not only faith schools but they are more or less
bilingual schools.

Bilingual Muslim children need to learn standard English to follow the
National Curriculum and go for higher studies and research to serve
humanity. They need to be well versed in Arabic to recite and understand the
Holy Quran. They need to be well versed in Urdu and other community
languages to keep in touch with their cultural roots and enjoy the beauty of
their literature and poetry.

Bilingualism is an asset but the British schooling regards it as a
problem. A Muslim is a citizen of this tiny global village. He/she does not
want to become notoriously monolingual Brit. Pakistan is only seven hours
from London and majority of British Muslims are from Pakistan.

More than third of British Muslim have no qualifications. British school
system has been failing large number of Muslims children for the last 60
years. Muslim scholars see the pursuit of knowledge as a duty, with the
Quran containing several verses to the rewards of learning. 33% of British
Muslims of working age have no qualifications and Muslims are also the least
likely to have degrees or equivalent qualifications. Most of estimated
500,000 Musl
55

Fanling,

Switzerland 28/06/2008 00:16:56
"More than third of British Muslim have no qualifications. British school system has been failing large number of Muslims children for the last 60 years. Muslim scholars see the pursuit of knowledge as a duty, with the Quran containing several verses to the rewards of learning."

Really? So, if the British school system as defined by you is "failing large number of Muslims ..." then it is clearly failing non-Muslims too. You use this relentless notion of Islamic victimhood, so persistent from Muslims living in western countries. It does not wash and never will.

Ask yourself and your fellow Muslims why "More than third of British Muslim have no qualifications." Whose fault is that? Easy to blame a system which you and yours patently have no faith in, and use that as an excuse to set up your own (state-funded) Islamic-biased outfits.

I note with no irony, your observation that "Pakistan is only seven hours from London and majority of British Muslims are from Pakistan." Let me think ... would not your fellow Muslims with no qualifications be better served by opening up your desired schools in Pakistan? Would that not be a service to your country of origin? No, of course not. Britain - in this case, the part called Scotland - will supply it free if your agitators have their way.


56

Jacobus,

East of Glasgow 28/06/2008 09:00:21
Just as I was being persuaded of the merits of the SNP and the notion of independence, Salmond has stopped me in my tracks. This is not the way forward. The only good to come out of this debate may be the realisation by supporters of RC state funded schools that religion should play no part in education. What is allowed for one religion cannot be denied to any. The party who has the guts to stand up for religion-free education throughout Scotland and the UK will have my vote. They can start by completely removing the RC run primary school teaching course at Glasgow University.
57

Calvinist,

28/06/2008 11:25:52
This is very depressing. If Salmond's agenda was to create a secular republic, then he would have my support. As is is he wants to retain the Monarchy and pander to a narrow-minded religious view of the world. I expect next he will introduce fundamentalist Christian Schools that reject modern scientific concepts. By creating these sorts of artificial divisions in our society this can only result in an increase of our notorious bigotry problem. His desperation for more votes is only matched by Gordon Brown. STOP LOOKING BACKWARDS SALMOND AND START LOOKING FORWARDS,
58

Calvinist,

28/06/2008 11:26:08
This is very depressing. If Salmond's agenda was to create a secular republic, then he would have my support. As is is he wants to retain the Monarchy and pander to a narrow-minded religious view of the world. I expect next he will introduce fundamentalist Christian Schools that reject modern scientific concepts. By creating these sorts of artificial divisions in our society this can only result in an increase of our notorious bigotry problem. His desperation for more votes is only matched by Gordon Brown. STOP LOOKING BACKWARDS SALMOND AND START LOOKING FORWARDS,
59

Calvinist,

28/06/2008 11:54:56
#30 Religious tolerance is good.

Why?

Why should we tolerate or accommodate those who hold irrational beliefs in the face of overwhelming evidence that they are wrong? How far do you want to take this? Some animist religions have the most abominable practices such as cannibalism, child rape etc. If it's done in the name of religion does that mean it's OK and we should tolerate it. The intolerant ones are those who adhere to an irrational view of the world and muck it up for the rest of us.
60

Fanling,

Switzerland 28/06/2008 20:11:24
#66 Jacobus,East of Glasgow
"Just as I was being persuaded of the merits of the SNP and the notion of independence, Salmond has stopped me in my tracks."

I, and I am sure a great number of Scots people, share your concerns. You also mention the primary teaching course at Glasgow University. RC-run? I read this on another thread with initial disbelief. Can anyone tell me why a religious denomination - any religious denomination - is in charge of such an important national function? Or is this just a Glasgow phenomenon? Whatever, something is seriously wrong in the state of Scotland.

#67 Calvinist
Same sentiments.


61

Fanling,

Switzerland 28/06/2008 20:27:35
I doubt there will be any endorsements or condemnation from the other political parties. Too scared. Labour, especially post-Alexander, will be desperately looking for ways to target the Islamovote. Short of building a mosque on Glasgow Green, it's hard to see what they can stoop to, now that Salmond has raised the unpalatable bar.
62

Fanling,

Switzerland 29/06/2008 02:22:54
My post #65 was a reply to #64 Iftikhar, Forest Gate London. Sorry for the hiccup.
63

Jacobus,

East of Glasgow 29/06/2008 13:52:57
#70 Fanling
I'm afraid I entered both threads a bit late in the day. Work and time zone to blame. This thread's comment refers to my opposition to state funded religious schools of any description for all the reasons listed. The other thread was in response to the surprise being expressed that a non-RC teacher had been placed in charge (temporarily) of an RC school. I have witnessed first hand the arrogance of the RC establishment professing that their religion equips them to become "better teachers". I am sure the Islamic teachers believe the same applies to them. Salmond's proposal is the unacceptable face of cynical politics - favours for votes.
64

Fanling,

Switzerland 29/06/2008 21:57:25
#73 Jacobus
My opinion at post #11 anticipates yours. Salmond's proposal is, as you rightly put it, "the unacceptable face of cynical politics", in his grubbing for the wrong kind of votes - at the expense of a majority indigenous electorate with no religious issue to blind and blunt their concerns. Islam is a rather more serious bunch of nettles than some on here are apparently aware.

I had high hopes for Salmond some time ago. No longer. He (aided and abetted by foot-in-the-mouth MacAskill) has shunted himself and his party into a muddy sidings in cosying up to Saeed and his ilk. Saeed & Co have him dangling on a string. Nothing good will come of this.
65

Abel Magwitch,

Hamilton 30/06/2008 01:59:37
The mind boggles at this news item. Scottish history and world history are peppered with strife and suffering mainly in the name of organized religions with the possible exception of Nazism and Communism. Even these isms have quasi-religious aspects with the elaborate rites and the tendency to deify individuals. This is the 21st century, time to move on.
66

radge dug,

30/06/2008 09:33:29
NO!

Public money should not be used to shore up some people's supersticions. If Catholics and Muslims want their own schools, let their churches pay for it. We should also take observance out of state schools - teach kids to think and question, not to follow irrational faith. Same for the Orange Order - if they want to march, then let them compensate the council and pay for the cops.
67

Gina Gibson,

Wales 05/07/2008 01:40:41
religion is a boil on the AR SE of humanity.

 

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