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SNP to launch controversial 'buy Scottish' food policy



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Published Date: 13 January 2008
A CONTROVERSIAL bid to boost Scottish food will be launched this week as part of a Government plan to change the way the nation eats.
Supermarkets, restaurants and hospitals will be urged to stock more home-grown produce to boost the nation's farming industry and reduce the environmental damage caused by transporting food long distances.

And big food chains such as Tesco and Sai
nsbury's will be asked to change labelling so shoppers can clearly see where their food comes from.

Ministers may even seek to make new supermarket developments conditional on the chains agreeing to stock an agreed amount of Scottish produce.

The plans are being enthusiastically backed by Scottish farmers, who claim it is time they received a fair deal in the marketplace.

But health experts said the move will not necessarily help cut the country's appalling rates of obesity against the might of the big food producers, and retailers said they were already stocking increasing amounts of Scottish produce.

The plans will be unveiled this week by Environment Secretary Richard Lochhead, who wants to create a "national food policy" this year.

Intended to look at food "from the farm gate to the plate", members of the public will be asked to set out their own views on everything from how to improve the Scottish diet to how to deal with animal welfare.

SNP ministers say they want the plan to make food healthier, boost the home-grown food industry and, in so doing, cut back on Scotland's "food miles" footprint.

In the public sector, ministers say they support plans to ensure more local food is sold to schools and hospitals. They also want the hospitality sector to boost its own purchases of local produce. But farmers are putting them under intense pressure to take on the big supermarket chains.

The National Farmers' Union Scotland said: "The relationship between supermarkets and their suppliers is now the single biggest determinant of farm business sustainability. A fair-trade ethos requires political support and intervention by the Scottish Government."

But Fiona Moriarty of the Scottish Retail Consortium said that supermarkets were already stocking high levels of Scottish food, because customers demanded it.



The full article contains 368 words and appears in Scotland On Sunday newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 12 January 2008 9:33 PM
  • Source: Scotland On Sunday
  • Location: Scotland
  • Related Topics: Scottish National Party
 
1

Rabster,

13/01/2008 00:21:41
What exactly is "controversial" about the policy?
2

,

13/01/2008 00:35:14
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3

Conan the Librarian™,

13/01/2008 00:42:37
2
Of course,fakey.

Local is best.

4

Trevor,

13/01/2008 00:47:33
I was just thinking what a good idea this would be; I'd still gravitate whatever's cheapest but would consider paying more for marked-up Scottish food. I'm amazed that the Scotsman hasn't detected 'fury' or 'an outcry', though - standards must be slipping.
5

,

13/01/2008 01:08:40
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6

ochone,

Sauchgie, Clack's 13/01/2008 01:14:56
AM2, if this is another fiendish plot by those dastardly Nat's there is a way for the Westminster government to counter it, all they have to do is order all products to be labeled in such away as to show what part of the british isles,(counties etc) they come from, ergo wiping out any fiendish advantage alex Salmond and his crew would hope to gain, in less of course people in Scotland actually want to pick stuff that is Scottish.

It would seem that you look on the people of Scotland, whatever their background, heritage etc as a bunch of numptys, but your the only one that's come up with this theory, but then maybe you were tired.

If not, what Logic were you refering to, certainly not yours when sending in this idea.

Never mind you can tell us where the National Farmers Union has gone wrong in the morning

7

,

13/01/2008 01:23:34
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8

Conan the Librarian™,

13/01/2008 01:30:24
7
How are ye doing.

5
AM2; The EU likes produce labeled from the country of origin...
9

FrancesP,

13/01/2008 01:48:10
#5. AM2 - "So it's politically divisive, and I trust that the supermarkets will resist it." I trust you would urge them to resist a similar "buy British" campaign, on the grounds that it's divisive and anti-European? You still haven't adequately explained why British nationalism is so infintely less objectionable in your mind than the Scottish variety.
10

Auckland Arab2,

13/01/2008 02:34:15
Another nonsense headline. This is a completely sensible policy. A similar one was introduced in New Zealand prior to Christmas covering most types of retailers and backed up by TV advertising. Maybe that was an SNP inspired conspiracy aimed at the Scottish diaspora in NZ! Consumers have a RIGHT to know where their products were made or grown and then choose based on whatever criteria they see fit (including misty eyed romantic reasons).

#8 Can I advise you that unless a hotel or restaurant (especially chains) clearly states they are using for example Scottish Beef then there is a high degree of likelihood that beef dishes on the menu contain non-Scottish beef, most likely Australian or Argentinian beef. Where a premium product is being used in a dish it is most likely to be stated as such on the menu. Numerous hotel chains buy Australian beef in the UK and clearly do not advertise this fact to their customers. It is simply a matter of cost. Things like lamb are the same.

Solution: full disclosure of origin and let the consumer decide.
11

Edward,

13/01/2008 03:15:15
There is nothing controversial about this
For once why cant the media get behind Scotland!
The Portuguese have launched a pro Buy Portuguese labeling to encourage people in Portugal to buy Portuguese produce
In the sixties we had the buy British campaign
So it happens elsewhere but when Scots are about to be encouraged to buy Scottish produce its deemed 'controversial'!
THe reporter here even goes to the extent ofsuggesting that it would be unhealthy to eat Scottish produce by quoting 'health experts' but ignores the fact that unhealthy products such as MacDonalds, KFC etc are made outside Scotland, or that unhealthy food comes from anywhere and not just Scotland
Eating local produce encourages home production, so cuts down carbon footprints, and stimulates the Scottish economy, so whats controversial about that?
12

Pete40,

Tassy 13/01/2008 03:35:00
Not a lot wrong with buying English beef. Get worried when the supermarkets start stocking Chinese veggies. Maybe not have it in the UK but it was a popular idea amongst the multi nationals a year or so ago in Australia. Mind you Tasmania does export veggies to Japan so maybe it is a fair go.
13

donald,

glasgow 13/01/2008 07:21:08
I never buy anything with a Union Jack on it, including the Labour Party and the Old Firm
14

BIG EYE,

13/01/2008 07:41:30
This is an excellent idea and long overdue. As the purchasing power of the superstores grow the only body that exercise some controls that give smaller local suppliers some hope of a fair deal is the Government.

Consumers will welcome this to as people like to purchase local produce but often find it difficult to find it in the supermarkets.

Another absolutely excellent idea from the SNP, well done Richard Lochhead!
15

Joe,

Harthill Rim 13/01/2008 08:23:58
Another attack on Scotsman publications by
the Looney Nats. The crime this time being the word 'controversial' Should it have been substituted with 'wonderful'?
16

SteveS,

Blantyre 13/01/2008 08:27:20
The SNP Plans may contravene European Legislation. The UK were fined for running a buy british case as well as the irish for a similar campaign. The SNP must be careful as the description of the scheme given by the journalist will discriminate aginst products produced in other member states. Particularly the conditional planning approval on stocking scottish produced foods.

The Irish government set up an organization to run a campaign to advertise and promote the purchase of Irish products. The question for the ECJ was whether this campaign constituted a measure having equivalent effect to a quota and in breach of Art. 28.

It was held that it did, even though the campaign was aimed at increasing the consumption of domestic products, and not restricting imports. Since, it was reasoned, there was only a market of a particular size for a particular product, encoraging consumption of domestic products would have the practical effect of restricting importation. The fact that the campaign was not implemented by any legally binding measures, or conducted directly by the state, was relevant only to the campaign's form, not to its substance. The campaign was therefore unlawful. (Case C249/81)
17

,

13/01/2008 08:30:17
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18

glassbenmhor,

13/01/2008 09:13:32
AM2 sir away and boil yer heed on this one ,and you know it,sure these store's have collective bargaining but there is a moral question here in the making cheap of things communities I know from the High Street I grew up in have died stone dead in there tracks all that can be seem in Crieff High Street is Charity shops where once resided the proud and quality oriented 'Butcher,Baker and Candle-stick maker
19

glassbenmhor,

13/01/2008 09:13:33
AM2 sir away and boil yer heed on this one ,and you know it,sure these store's have collective bargaining but there is a moral question here in the making cheap of things communities I know from the High Street I grew up in have died stone dead in there tracks all that can be seem in Crieff High Street is Charity shops where once resided the proud and quality oriented 'Butcher,Baker and Candle-stick maker
20

Steve,

Bo'ness 13/01/2008 09:37:25
Of course, nobody is suggesting that choice is restricted. But surely it helps our economy to buy local fresh produce?
What in god's name is wrong with that?
Every other country does the same, but if we do it in SCOTLAND, we're accused by unionists of being parochial navel gazers. Unbeleivable.
21

,

13/01/2008 09:53:12
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22

Ken Mac,

Glasgow 13/01/2008 10:08:45
I like English mustard, Cumberland sausage and Yorkshire pudding. I hadn't realised that the promotion of these products was a dastardly Unionist plot to get us all eating English food thereby ruining the Scottish farming economy. Only AM2 could come up with this rubbish. Makes his 'controversial' post and disappears leaving his brainless underlings like Ayrshire to carry on the thread. The Scotsman/Scotland on Sunday is getting more of a joke every day. Can they never just report the facts? or, god forbid, actually ever see anything positive in what the Scottish Government does?
23

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 13/01/2008 10:58:07
I already employ this contraversial policy !
24

OscarMacApfel,

Dumfries 13/01/2008 11:11:40
#5 Wow, a new low from old AM. Feller, that's the saddest attempt at diversion yet, congratulations you succeeded.

I'd have thought(how naive of me) that food was the one thing that partisan party politics wouldn't impinge on...how wrong.

I would applaud this idea even if it came from the Monster Raving Loony Party (West Coast, Renfrewshire Branch).

Knowing that you're food is produced locally, supports your local economy and guarantees a quality produce threshold has to be a good thing, and is not some devious underhand ploy at spreading Nationalism.

Supermarkets have destroyed town centres and obliterated Farmers Markets.

Here's a case as an example, 'Seriously Strong Cheddar' is produced in Stranraer, it's then transported to Hertfordshire for packaging, then transported back to Stranraer for sale at the local Morrinazis. Nuts!

I buy free range eggs from the farmer along the road and pay a grand total of £1.40 a dozen, the supermarkets charge nearly £4.00 for the same product, except I doubt their egg supplier has their hens wandering amongst the cattle and sheep and living in old Landrovers.

For anyone interested in getting the most out of their local produce I heartily recommend the excellent Fife Diet.



25

OscarMacApfel,

Dumfries 13/01/2008 11:15:06
Fife Diet referred to in #27 above also BBC Scotland link'

http://fifediet.wordpress.com/

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7152009.stm
26

Publius,

Girvan 13/01/2008 11:18:48
'Ministers may even seek to make new supermarket developments conditional on the chains agreeing to stock an agreed amount of Scottish produce.'

I bet that this is not allowable under EU regulations.
27

MtnKat,

13/01/2008 11:20:11
"My objection is on the basis of the apparent cynical attempt to create a “Scottish vs. British” dichotomy in consumers’ (and thus voters’) minds. The SNP's claim that there is an environmental motive seems to me to be a mere pretext; if it was a genuine consideration, would they not want to promote the specific county or region? The true motivation seems largely political and the supermarkets shouldn't pander to it."
I'm taking a page from your own book, Count Cut N Paste.
You are seeing conspiracy theories everywhere.
This is a sound economic policy which benefits both consumers and growers although I fail to see it changing eating habits. Only education and inclination are going to achieve that laudable aim.
28

OscarMacApfel,

Dumfries 13/01/2008 11:30:08
"I bet that this is not allowable under EU regulations."

How much?
29

Upbeat,

13/01/2008 11:34:46
This sort of labelling has all sorts of ramifications.

For example Shellfish is exported south to dealers in Billingsgate in London , but then reappears in Scottish restuarants. Where is it from ? ...England !

The range of products actually produces in Scotland is fairly small. It is possible to understand the point about Beef and Lamb, poultry and Pork. But when it comes to grain products, spices, dairy products and vegetables the short growing season will defy the SNP attempt at insularity.

and I've yet to see a commercial Orange or banana tree in Scotland !
30

WL,

livingston 13/01/2008 11:36:16
Excellent idea. All articles should clearly state the country of origin. Give the people the choice. If they prefer to buy Scottish produce, nothing wrong with that. If they like to buy English, Turkish, Chinese or other foreign produce, no problem.
By the way, Brussels pate in ASDA is produced in the Czech republic!
31

frank mcbride,

lusitania 13/01/2008 11:36:33
#5, 29, AM2

The "exponentially powered Dervish" rides again.

How can you spin sound economic and green policy as politicking?
32

MtnKat,

13/01/2008 11:46:45
Upbeat
Perhaps tax credits to build and operate processing plants in Scotland would be the answer. The jobs that would provide is another economic bonus.
Iternational economists are predicating a global recession due to the American sub prime fiasco. Reinvigorating our own economy in the face of that would put us ahead of the game.
As for oranges and bananas, there will always be an import/export industry. This policy targets those items which are available locally which blows AM2's boat out of the water with his argument that the SNP is trying to become 100% self sustaing in order to close the borders.
33

frank mcbride,

lusitania 13/01/2008 11:50:05
#32, Upbeat.

It may interest you to know that Scotland is self-sufficient in food production, to the extent that it can provide all the foods required through local production or by trading those products for pruducts produced elsewhere. Their is also, a fiscal surplus.

Sound economic and green practices are not insular but, responsible.
34

frank mcbride,

lusitania 13/01/2008 11:54:42
#36.

Perhaps I should ue a spell check.

"pruducts" - products
"Their" - There.
35

OscarMacApfel,

Dumfries 13/01/2008 11:55:09
#32 Upbeat, I presume you live in an urban environment and know very little about food production?


"But when it comes to grain products, spices, dairy products and vegetables the short growing season will defy the SNP attempt at insularity."
36

P Rayner.,

London. 13/01/2008 11:58:15
Absolutely brilliant plan by the SNP , supported by the Scottish Farmers Union . Obviously these two bodies won´t object to a similar scheme in England , urging purchase of English produce ? I travel extensively in France and Germany and can´t recall once any Scottish produce on offer , English yes . So those markets are not likely to be more open in future . With the potential loss of the English market the future for Scotlands producers seems bleak . Wise up before its too late .
37

OscarMacApfel,

Dumfries 13/01/2008 12:09:37
Hahahahaha.


Glen Campbell seems to have gone a bit 'special' on the Politics Show.

38

OscarMacApfel,

Dumfries 13/01/2008 12:20:31
Further mirth to be had on the Politics Show, FM Salmond is ripping the pee out of an increasingly flummoxed John Sopel.
39

mesmiths,

fife 13/01/2008 12:33:33
'SNP MINISTER IN DECISION TO BREATH CONTROVERSY' BY Eddie Barnes.
#1 Everything the SNP ever does in government is controversial in this rag. The biased stance is one reason I'll not actually buy a copy, the standard of reporting is another.
TO THE EDITOR - WATCH THE SALES CONTINUE DOWNWARDS AND GET READY FOR MORE CUTS... OR GET A GRIP ON REALITY AND MAKE THIS A REAL PAPER.
40

 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/01/2008 12:48:10
50. Good Lord. The Wendy fugitive is on the politics show. They have removed the hand cuffs and the Hannibal mask for the duration of the interview I see. Compassionate, but surely putting the public at risk?
41

,

13/01/2008 13:16:16
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42

Haleakelaman,

St.Andrews 13/01/2008 13:22:52
Scotland on Sunday scrambling for a headline yet again. We know that Scottish produce is of good quality. As for the AS and WA interview, I have a disabled Son but I also know the difference of what is important for Scotland and what is not, surely that than bleating on about all the impoverished of this country. That woman is an idiot, well done Alex for clamming up your opponents. I'm sure my disabled Son will remain to be well looked after by the SNP admin.
43

OscarMacApfel,

Dumfries 13/01/2008 13:27:15
#54 Ciderman, have you spent the morning embibing?
44

,

13/01/2008 13:28:45
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JoeMcT,

BlairsFantasyIsland 13/01/2008 13:32:04
Scottish food produce is among the best in the world, so why would any sensible Scottish Government NOT want to promote it?

This is just another example of the SNP coming up with a good, practical idea that most Scots will support.

In 10 years of power has New Labour come up with even one decent idea of their own?
46

frank mcbride,

lusitania 13/01/2008 13:34:36
#54, Ciderman.

Could you try again, using english this time?

This must be your most incoherent post yet.
47

Louisa,

Perth 13/01/2008 13:35:47
We need to re-introduce the skill of cooking fresh food in schools - then we might revive the ability to be healthier in our choice and use of fresh food bought directly from local producers in the growing trend of local markets and shops which might convince supermarkets to supply specific foods as they are doing for immigrant populations but not as it seems for the indigenous inhabitants. It is interesting to know that the immigrant populations are much more demanding in their food choices and they tend to cook fresh compared to our lazy ready made mush.
48

,

13/01/2008 13:37:10
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49

DaveK,

Edinburgh 13/01/2008 13:37:47
All Salmond wants is the Saltire slapped on everything so that even your eggs and sausages in the morning are jingoistic. I'm all for promoting home grown and local, but seriously do you think the SNP care about this? Naw, its another round of claymore rattling. They'll be burning shakespeare and Auden in the streets next.
50

,

13/01/2008 13:43:02
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51

Janis *,

london 13/01/2008 13:46:34

Waitrose Supermarkets ( the John Lewis Group) are particularly good at labelling local food - down to the actual farm often. They have a policy of using local sources where possible. Last year they endorsed the young lad from Edinburgh & his supajams (sugar free) made from his Gran's recipes I believe. Read somewhere that he is well on the way to his first £ million.
52

,

13/01/2008 13:55:40
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53

Generalissimo Hernandez,

13/01/2008 14:02:12
Outrageous! Not like that inclusive "British jobs for British workers", eh?
54

OscarMacApfel,

Dumfries 13/01/2008 14:06:28
#63

"No. Just lamenting the emerging cult of personality around Oily Salmond and his chosen vehicle of convenience, the SNP."

Personally speaking, I'm more enamoured with foxy Fiona Hyslop and her evilly arched eyebrows. I'd be her bitch like a shot.
55

frank mcbride,

lusitania 13/01/2008 14:11:12
#65, Ciderman.

You're getting better. I understood your question.

It's fine thanks due to my sub-sea generator and the plentiful supply of seafood.

Unfortunately, the rest of your post is incoherent as ever.

BTW do you normally spell "sinister": Kerr?
56

 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/01/2008 14:18:52
54 Cider Pete

clearly your early morning exertions at the hands of Mad Dog Adair have left you dangerously dehydrated and slightly more dribblesome and tricky to understand than usual. Are you having a breadown or are you against promotion of Scottish produce?

57

Gothic Rose,

13/01/2008 14:26:29
No Way, will I, eat porridge!!!
58

,

13/01/2008 14:35:03
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,

13/01/2008 14:42:47
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 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/01/2008 14:56:20
77. Could you re-post that perchance and inlcude an iota of coherence?
61

 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/01/2008 15:00:12


77 Cider Pete

do you think Blair and Cameron had the intention of punishing mothers who did not buy the correctly labelled foods...

"Blair backs 'buy British food' campaign.Last week the Conservative leader, David Cameron, backed a "buy British" campaign for the £1.8 billion of food bought each year by the public sector. ...
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/01/09/ufood109.xml - 40k - "
62

Van (not white) Diesel,

Amsterdam & Augsburg 13/01/2008 15:13:52
This paper seems to be read by a number of fruitcakes.

I have no political axe to grind but would ask that you listen to the obnoxious little man when he speaks, and count the number of times he mentions Scots and Scotland. It is absolutely laughable.

YOU ARE ALL BEING BRAINWASHED.
63

,

13/01/2008 15:14:30
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64

 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/01/2008 15:30:25
84 Yes, I agree Brown is an obnoxious blight, and his conference speech with its 87 Britain/ British and zero mentions of Scotland was vile....


Brown's speech....
"I believe in Britain. I believe in a Britain of British people who are proud to be British, and who are proud to live beside other Britons, in this Great British country of ours.
65

Generalissimo Hernandez,

13/01/2008 15:30:55
"I do not believe they did, but I believe Salmond will try, using some price mechanism, or issuing coupons to people in receipt of benefit."

Ah,the Animal Farm defence; "British good, Scottish bad".
66

 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/01/2008 15:30:56
85 What makes you think that Cider Pete?
67

,

13/01/2008 15:32:10
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 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/01/2008 15:35:29
87 Meths

I think 84 was referring to Brown's conference speech which had no references to Scotland but 87 British quotes, including:


"Good homes to rent and buy for the British people. A strong Britain is essential.
"I believe in Britain.
" I will stand up for British values. I will stand up for a strong Britain
"British jobs for British workers".
69

 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/01/2008 15:36:58
90. Ah, Is Salmond planning on copying the New Labour blue print for Iraq to reduce a country to a shattered bloody violent mess without infrastructure, cholera epdimic and in control of militias?

Or are you just talking rubbish?
70

,

13/01/2008 15:38:56
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,

13/01/2008 15:40:29
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Van (not white) Diesel,

Amsterdam & Augsburg 13/01/2008 15:40:47
#86 Ayrshire Scot™
GB is just as obnoxious. Presumably equally vile that he did not mention Wales, or the other one.
#87 Methalions
Can't do an upside down question mark?
73

,

13/01/2008 15:40:57
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,

13/01/2008 15:43:42
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Van (not white) Diesel,

Amsterdam & Augsburg 13/01/2008 15:45:05
Re my 95 - Sorry, the other two.
76

,

13/01/2008 15:53:38
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juan kerr and his dead magic hands, now re risen.,

13/01/2008 15:59:04
#5 - AM2 - What about the move too localy produce produce is good for the environment you plumb(fruit)

Also what about the old Scottish meat marketing board and milk marketing boards? The push under labour and tory to wear pringle jumpers?

Your a laughing stock you eejit.
78

,

13/01/2008 16:02:12
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OscarMacApfel,

Dumfries 13/01/2008 16:13:54
#101 Poor old Ciderman, the hole in his bozone layer* isn't getting any larger.

*The halo like substance surrounding stupid people that stops bright ideas from penetrating.
80

Ayrshire Scot?™,

Forres 13/01/2008 16:14:25
100. You are talking pish as well. AS you often do.
81

,

13/01/2008 16:14:59
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82

Upbeat,

13/01/2008 16:17:46
36 Frank,

"It may interest you to know that Scotland is self-sufficient in food production, to the extent that it can provide all the foods required through local production or by trading those products for pruducts produced elsewhere"

What a remarkable observation, beautifully qualified by stating the blindingly obvious.

When you sell something you receive money, tokens and credit so you can buy what you lack. The very basis of trading. Hardly a correct response to any fresh SNP generated idea that Scottish consumers could ever exist by buying products from Scotland only. So what is new and where is the breathtaking advantage ?
83

 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/01/2008 16:19:19
103 Fakey (question mark) - a glance at an atlas might allow you place Forres as outwith Ayrshire
84

 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/01/2008 16:21:31
106 AM2

did you support the "Buy British" campaign supported last year by Blair, Brown and Cameron?
85

 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/01/2008 16:23:55
Ciderman between posts 94 and 97 lost "Forres" in his location but strangely the fake Ayrshire Scot gained a "Forres" in his location?

Some sock puppetry in suport of informed debate Cider Pete that you wish to tell us about?

86

OscarMacApfel,

Dumfries 13/01/2008 16:25:08
#107 Poor old CiderFakeyPete he really gave the game away on that one, my lavender chum. Perhaps he's suffering from Osteopornosis, the disease for todays busy degenerate.
87

 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/01/2008 16:27:58
Cider Pete - do tell why between posts 94 and 97 you deleted Forres from your location (Ayrsshire Scot ? with a blank location being at post 96) then you put Forres back in (but left it in for your next fakey post?). My what cunning unionists into informed debate we have.
88

 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/01/2008 16:29:37
Posts 96 and 103

Do tell us Ciderman what sort of pathetic coward hides behind another user name to dish out insults to Meths, while bleating on about the insults/ quality of debate on this site under his "real" username?
89

Upbeat,

13/01/2008 16:33:02
39 Oscar.

"Upbeat, I presume you live in an urban environment and know very little about food production?"

Don't go jumping to silly conclusions about those you meet here .

Oscar.You can vote for an unstable price and commodity market where prices leap about day to day, and food retail markets jump hour by hour in response to seasonal supply and demand forces.Or you can choose to support a Government that will be forced down thesubsidy route even more than present day policied demand, just to satisfy some insular dream.

The whole success of the EU Common agricultural policy, so much derided in the UK press- usually wholly misunderstood and unappreciated on the street-has been taken for granted by those such as yourself. Is it really wise to question the experience of their parents and grandparents generation, when thesde very people, were the generation that have managed to stabilise and drive down food prices in real terms for 40 years. ? Do you even understand how small the choice in the shops of Scotland was when transport links and global markets were not so accessible?

But never mind...What you don't know about Upbeat's home location, upbringing, experience and background won't hurt you.
90

 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/01/2008 16:34:17
Post 99 and 96. Do tell us Cider pete why you went to the trouble of posting 96 to remonstrate with your self at post 99? Are you a tad "special"?
91

 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/01/2008 16:36:13
I think I will file away posts 94 (Cider - Forres) 97 (Cider, blank location) and fakey Ayrshire Scot?( Forres) in case Ciderman overcomes his embarrassment at being caught hiding behind fakies to dish out insults and re-surfaces on the threads. He seems to have departed abruptly.
92

democracy,

Scottish Borders 13/01/2008 16:40:30
SOS. there you go again, the article header,
"SNP to launch.....", where an impartial paper, if there is such a thing, would have put "Government to launch.....", because it should not have mattered which party was in office, but obviously to you ,it does!! Nothing new here!
93

 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/01/2008 16:40:33
121 Meths

if Ciderman had not written 96. Look at how his location goes blank between posts 94 and 97 while the fake Ayrshire posts in between, but then Forres pops up in both his next posts as Cider and Ayrshire?
94

juan kerr and his dead magic hands, now re risen.,

13/01/2008 16:43:09
#106 - You forget to mention the body of my point. Which was that their existed under labour and tory administrations the Scottish Meat marketing boards and Milk Marketing boards. Also many a tourist attractions opened by the esteemed Joke McConnel.

Produce Produce should have read localy produced produce. My keyboard stuck. That does not however take away from the fact your a joke who stoops to any level to bring in the SNP.
95

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13/01/2008 16:43:47
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Van (not white) Diesel,

Amsterdam & Augsburg 13/01/2008 16:43:55
#113 Methalions
I knew you would rise to the challenge. Well done! How many Wingdings did you have to ferret through, 'cos it took 40 mins from tee to green?
97

 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/01/2008 16:44:04
125 Ciderman is also posting as Ayrshire Scot ?

His location goes from Forres at 94 to blank at 97 (why would he delete his location) - because he blanked it for post 96 as Ayrshire?.

He then puts Forres back in location but forgets to delete it when posting as Ayrshire?

Strange he seems to have departed just after this wee error.
98

OscarMacApfel,

Dumfries 13/01/2008 16:46:54
#115 Dear Upbeat, nice to meet someone who refers to themselves in the third person, are you a professional sports person or perhaps minor royalty?

You stated, "But when it comes to grain products, spices, dairy products and vegetables the short growing season will defy the SNP attempt at insularity."

Firstly, why should promoting the production and sale of home produce be insular, we're hardly 19th century Japan. Secondly, are you seriously suggesting that we could not produce enough of the above foodstuffs to feed our own population and still have enough left over for export?

I'll grant you that spice production, whilst obviously not natural to Scotland, is already being done by a few organic herb growers. But dairy, vegetables and grain come on, old bean!

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english nabob,

13/01/2008 16:47:03
I always buy Scottish beef and Scottish cheese. Simply the best. They may not be local or English but still worth the price.
100

 Ayrshire Scot™,

Is Forres in Ayrshire?? 13/01/2008 16:48:56
mmm, shall i post insults under a fake name, and then post using a differnt name complaining about insults. Or would that be bonkers?
101

 Ayrshire Scot™,

Forrestry 13/01/2008 16:50:51
Has Forres suddenly lost internet service?

Will Cider Pete explain his lcoation changes bewteen posts 94, 97 and 99?
102

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13/01/2008 16:51:18
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OscarMacApfel,

Dumfries 13/01/2008 16:51:48
Ahem, kind chumrades, anyone notice something special about post 126?

I'd have thought the only person that could post with no name would be a moderator, how slapdashingly odd!
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 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/01/2008 16:52:33
127

You have left Forres in again you pillock
105

 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/01/2008 16:52:59
139 and post 127?
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13/01/2008 16:55:32
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Van (not white) Diesel,

Amsterdam & Augsburg 13/01/2008 16:56:19
#135 Methalions
Spanish keyboard = traitor. :)
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 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/01/2008 16:57:16
141 Oscar - what mean about post 126?
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 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/01/2008 16:58:31
146 you managed to delete Forres that time. Well done. What happened at 127?
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OscarMacApfel,

Dumfries 13/01/2008 16:59:09
#149 Meths look at the header in #126 no username, how is that possible?
111

AJM,

13/01/2008 17:01:09
This seems to be a complete non story, and a typical SNP iniative that will be quickly forgotten. For example the UK goverment has failed to get supermarkets to give sensible indicators of sugar etc. levels on the front, so how is plucky Salmond going to dictate? Welfare is from the EU so cannot be altered. Most folk seem to have ready meals these days, so how is that going to be labelled, bit of scottish. Most supermarkets are keen to promote local produce these days without AS's spin. What is Scottish beef, I think that it only has to have been north of the border for 90 days before it is killed.
112

 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/01/2008 17:01:35
152 It has a user name - juan kerr and his hands etc
113

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13/01/2008 17:04:08
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Van (not white) Diesel,

Amsterdam & Augsburg 13/01/2008 17:06:50
# 156 Ciderman 542000 (nowhere)
Didn't they ever come out?
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 Ayrshire Scot™,

13/01/2008 17:09:21
160 and into Narnia?
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13/01/2008 17:12:23
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13/01/2008 17:13:20
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Van (not white) Diesel,

Amsterdam & Augsburg 13/01/2008 17:13:25
#157 Methalions
Appreciate you are exiled, hence I mentioned upside down question mark.
No, everything is not made in China, which is what this thread is partly about, I think. Some things, certain foodstuffs perhaps, are made here.
Suggest you buy a Scottish keyboard made in Neep Glen.
119

OscarMacApfel,

Dumfries 13/01/2008 17:15:46
Hmmm, my screen is saying:

'#126 13/01/2008 16:43:09'

then underneath in the text box

'juan kerr and his dead magic hands, now re risen.,'

How flipping odd!

Time to get an imac or better drucks...

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,

13/01/2008 17:16:03
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Van (not white) Diesel,

Amsterdam & Augsburg 13/01/2008 17:17:06
#165 Methalions
No need. I shall bring one out in March. Cash will do nicely.
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english nabob,

Sainsburys 13/01/2008 17:18:04
#137 Spainiard

http://www.taste-of-scotland.com/cheese.html

Scottish Cheddar accounts for 70-80% of total output and the main creameries are located at Locherbie, Stranraer and Campbeltown and on the islands of Bute, Arran, Mull, Gigha and Orkney.
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,

13/01/2008 17:18:24
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Van (not white) Diesel,

Amsterdam & Augsburg 13/01/2008 17:18:47
#167 Ciderman 542000 (back in Forres)
That's why I am in two places at once.
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13/01/2008 17:20:15
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Van (not white) Diesel,

Amsterdam & Augsburg 13/01/2008 17:24:06
#172 Ciderman 542000 (nowhere - yet again)
You have just given the game away. Salmond was tapping up Trump for investment in hi-tec (not the trainers) plant in the NE. It had nothing at all to do with golf.
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13/01/2008 17:27:14
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13/01/2008 17:28:48
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FrancesP,

13/01/2008 17:31:48
#26. AM2, I can certainly accept what you say about disapproving of an equivalent 'buy British' campaign but your claim that you "have no truck with nationalism of any kind – Scottish, British, whatever" carries considerably less credibility. The word 'nationalism' as the SNP use it means support for the existence of a Scottish nation-state - nothing more, nothing less. As I understand it, you support the existence of a British nation-state, and in those terms you are therefore a British nationalist. It may be that you personally (as you've indicated elsewhere) would not describe yourself as such because of the nastier connotations the word carries in other parts of Europe, ie. ethnic exclusivity. But if that's the case, by your own definition the SNP would not be 'nationalists' any more than you are, so where exactly is the problem?
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13/01/2008 17:34:15
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,

13/01/2008 17:35:08
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Upbeat,

13/01/2008 17:35:53
132 Oscar,

Even now You don't appear to understand the point that is being put here.

It is not that Scotland has no history of growing a smaller season and narrower range of many of these products, compared with the assortment on sale today. In the past there was indeed a wider range of Scottish produce than is now either grown or in the shops. The reason these products are no longer grown is a simple economic one. The cost of agricultural labour has risen hugely in the past 60 years along with the standard of living. The cost of foods has, in the corresponding period, dropped to a mere fraction of the average household income.

The reason that prices have fallen is due to more efficient exploitation of ideal growing environments in a large number of alternative locations. This has led to huge ecoomies of scale, standardisation of produce, and supply and transport/distribution chain efficiencies.

It is not that Scotland cannot grow these products, it is simply crazy to imagine that the people of Scotland should be compelled by idealistic politicians and their cronies, to accept a premium on every product simply to ensure that what is consumed is produced in a profitable manner in Scotland all year round.

It is this point that is at issue. But you will perhaps show us the huge orchards in Scotland, the vast cheesemaking , and butter producing industry. You will deny that Fruit flowers and vegetables and meat are brought into Scotland from as far away as the Pacific, East Africa and South America - (and we depend on this source of supply today)

It is one thing to be idealistic in this, another to be realistic. It is important to view the issue in the round. There is no such thing as cheap home grown produce and the SNP should be embarrassed into full acknowledgment of the consequential costs of their insular dream.
133

truthsleuth,

South of the Border 13/01/2008 17:36:43
Heavy lorries subsidised by road building and maintenace by the taxpayer provide the means and reason behind 'cheap' foreign food (including English) flowing into Scotland.
The SNP with its road building ploicies and removal of tolls from bridges simply encourage this traffic.
134

truthsleuth,

13/01/2008 17:38:02
Local Airport development subsidised by the taxpayer is yet another perversity of Gvernment.
135

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13/01/2008 17:42:40
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Van (not white) Diesel,

Amsterdam & Augsburg 13/01/2008 17:42:44
#186 truthsleuth
Do I take it that the HGVs trundle back south empty, and like that the tatties, whisky, etc, etc, do a Startrek and are beamed there?
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13/01/2008 17:47:47
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AJM,

13/01/2008 17:50:29
#185 Upbeat
You are in essence right, scotland cannot nor can it without massive energy subsidies produce all its own food.Even then where are the paddy fields going to be. Or even the out of season salads.
If am right are the SNP suggesting that if it is labelled Scottish it is healthier, than not labelled or British. What about all the local unhealthy products, will the supermarkets be asked to not label them as Scottish?
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OscarMacApfel,

Dumfries 13/01/2008 17:51:18
# 185 Yikes, Upbeat calm down, the human body can only contain so much apoplexy.

I am not disagreeing with you as regards the reasons why food is comparatively cheap today. I am merely suggesting that the motives behind this are not party political and are instead a means of making sure that our home produce gets equal shelf space with cheaper foreign imports, that the consumer be given the choice.
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english nabob,

13/01/2008 17:52:44
#183

yes perhaps that is why sir £Sean is a £millionaire and I can only afford to read online newspapers.
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Ayrshire Scot?™­,

13/01/2008 17:55:13
I am an idiot.
142

Ayrshire Scot?™­,

Forres 13/01/2008 17:58:03
195
Methalions,
13/01/2008 17:43:53
Hey Ciderman...I think you've got an admirer.
Narcissus springs to mind.

Thats a flower. hahahahah
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13/01/2008 17:58:20
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AJM,

13/01/2008 18:02:41
#203
I take it that if he is the greediest politician and he certainly is not the slimmest of men. This scheme is is all of AS's doing so that he does not choke on English beef when tucking into his daily meat pie.
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Gothic Rose,

13/01/2008 18:10:20
Oh Sean, If true,Shame on you [Re.183 Methalions]

Best Wishes to Eleanor.
146

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13/01/2008 18:16:06
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Iain's,

13/01/2008 18:25:01
To repeat the first posting. What the HELL is wrong or contraversial about buying local produce?

IS THE SCOTSMAN SAYING THAT I SHOULD BUY THE ******* TIMES?
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,

13/01/2008 18:33:31
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Van (not white) Diesel,

Amsterdam & Augsburg 13/01/2008 18:39:12
Methalions #216
Green lights (or hues) are the sole prerogative of Dounreay, not wave power.
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yockel,

Green Hills 13/01/2008 18:43:56
All for the promotion of local produce.
Not so sure about putting it into the supermarkets. All that will ensure is an inadequate price for the producer and the export of any profit.
Scotland loses again. Re-think needed!
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13/01/2008 18:50:26
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13/01/2008 18:53:49
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AJM,

13/01/2008 19:02:31
211 Right, if we really want to reduce food miles then it should be Scottish, then English, Welsh or Irish, then Europe. But I am sure that there seems to be a link that Scottish=Healthy. What they are on about by wanting to make food healthier I am not sure, all organic?
Surely if you make diets healthier then the issue of unhealthy food goes. Anyway the SNP are only launching a "need to talk to the public exercise" a sort of failed labour idea of the nineties. The issues are easy to identify it is what to do about them that is government, so get on with the job and do not launch a discussion as an initiative.
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13/01/2008 19:14:43
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13/01/2008 19:19:41
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Enigma,

13/01/2008 19:46:32
`Buy Scottish food`. What`s contraversial about that? My local supermarket already sells Scottish beef, prawns, smoked salmon, potatoes, eggs, cabbage and cheddar cheese? And I live 350 miles south of the Border.
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frank mcbride,

lusitania 13/01/2008 19:49:01
#105, Upbeat.

You are a either blindingly stupid, or incapable of reading.

To suggest that the FM is suggesting buying Scottish produce, exclusively, is a comment worthy of "the exponentially powered Dervish".
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13/01/2008 19:57:55
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Upbeat,

13/01/2008 20:35:29
230 Frank.

And now you are simply behaving as we have come to expect. from your remarks over the months.

Nowhere have I suggested this. If you are so convinced that somewhere above I have claimed anything of this sort Is it not you that is "challenged" ?

You could actually read post #114 and then #185 if your normal attention span can cope. . You will then be better able to judge the reasons why my concerns about this latest SNP aspiration were expressed.

BTW. Your desperate rush to stand by your man ( our squeaky clean FM ) on every issue, is so very touching . :-)
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13/01/2008 20:38:57
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Andra, Dundee,

13/01/2008 20:57:59
I'm involved in the food industry and we try to make a play of our stuff being local to our Scottish customer. However, we sell most of our produce to England - to be labelled as "British" - so hopefully the English will not adopt a parochial attitude. In fact come to think of it - we could be stuffed after Independence if the English have to label our stuff as imported!
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frank mcbride,

lusitania 13/01/2008 20:58:47
#232, Upbeat.

I refer you to your #32 which suggest that I am correct.

As for your #114,185 you show yourself as very short-sighted.

All sane economists from Smith have seen the benefit of appropriate Govermental input to the economy and, Germany and Japan have proved that supplying the "home" market, before export, is the road to prosperity.

As an internationalist capitalist, you would obviously reject the above.
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frank mcbride,

lusitania 13/01/2008 21:03:43
#234, Andra.

Why don't you just try marketting to the English retail outlets? I'm sure that would be more profitable than selling to a middleman.
164

Upbeat,

13/01/2008 21:24:30
235 Frank.

You might wish this were true. But nowhere in # 32 did I accuse the SNP of trying to restirct consumption to entirely Scottish produce either. either. I did observe in a lighthearted way that commercial banana and Orange trees were very unusual in Scotland, (as are sound SNP economic policies. )

In case you imagine that by posting a statement like " Germany and Japan have proved that supplying the "home" market, before export, is the road to prosperity." this makes such a naive thought true. It does not.

Both Germany and Japan have thrived in the past 50 years by adding value to their national skills and exporting this product.They were able to get ahead by integrating modern production methods and efficient technically advanced machinery to replace their collapsed and destroyed industrial regimes in the aftermath of WW 2 and they have never looked back.

Germany has become rich by diligence, thorough apprenticeships and training, and hard work. Japan has become rich by making investing in research and fabricating products of a quality and type and price that consumers all around the world want to buy.

Feeding the home market alone is a recipe for stagnation , as the Soviet Union discovered, and many other insular and isolated regimes over recent decaes have also proved. When you have nothing available to sell at a price that other nations and markets wish to pay then your economy collapses. This is because without a source of foreign exchange the country cannot afford the fresh raw materials to support continued production ( see Zimbabwe. )


This comment forum is hardly a suitable place for such an economic lesson. But inless the SNP's fan club actually understand such basic truths there is little hope that they will see when policy is contrived and will do damage to Scotland, and its people.
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frank mcbride,

lusitania 13/01/2008 21:49:22
#237, Upbeat.

Your verbosity is something to behold.

Unfortunately for you, both Germany and Japan did take the political decision to first service their "home" markets,in perishables and non-perishables. This was, substantially the basis for their prosperity.
This was unlike the UK where unreconstructed Capitalist, like yourself, refused to re-tool, invest or be open to new technology - the result of the live for today, tomorrow is someone else problem, attitude.

Similar attitudes exist, today, in our Imperial UK leadership.

I find it strange to be lectured to, on economics, by a person whose economic vision is based on Imperialism - whether Roman or NuRoman (Globalisation).
166

Banana Heid,

Ayrshire 13/01/2008 21:55:06
Question is will this reduce the cost of food? I don't really care where my food comes from as long as it's cheap yet tasty. Another side of this dilemna is companies like Youngs who send their languistines abroad to be processed into scampi. Can this still be considered Scottish food? Are the flower Eggs and breadcrumbs for the coating also scottish produce?
167

frank mcbride,

lusitania 13/01/2008 21:57:54
#240, Dave.

That'll be in the "York Rite"? i.e the Rite founded by the UK Establishment.

168

frank mcbride,

lusitania 13/01/2008 22:05:19
#Meths.

Isn't Spain a 3rd. World country, with no industry nor infrastructure?

Why would 1m+ UK emmigants (many taking advantage of their social services) want to live there?
169

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13/01/2008 22:25:12
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Upbeat,

13/01/2008 22:38:31
241 Frank McBride.

You are wrong again.( as usual )and each time you come here you lay yourself open once again to being " lectured to"

( If you can joke or seriously imagine that Spain is a 3rd world country ... ! )

As for your revisionist ideas about post war Germany and Japan it just shows how out of touch with late 20th century history you are.

Nothing here is "unfortunate for me" ...although clearly you wish to think that you are debating this issue of the future of Scottish agriculture here, your starnge take on history allows you to contribute too little.

Why you should imagine that being deliberately rude to those you disagree with is a wise way to debate is known only to you.

Why call me an imperialist. ? Do you even know what this means ? Why should my pointing out the limitations in SNP policy be imperialist , or is this simply your latest buzz word ?

If you knew anything about the history of the last 60 years you would not write as you do. The idea that the post war economic decline of Britain was based on imperialsism is daft. The reason the British economy stagnated after WW2 was the direct consequence and aftermath of the war Too many unrealistic expectations by an exhausted and depleted population living in a war bankrupted nation. A Nation that continued to live beyond its means, even after the export markets that had supported the pre war economy dried up. Because Britain was in no position to supply, due to world commodity shortages, and technology failed to move forward in too many industries.

No serious investment was possible in these conditions. What little national investment was possible simply went towards rehousing, and the reconstruction of dislocated infrastructure and industries. Meanwhile things like the welfare state and universal pensions soaked up huge wealth that might have been better spent on retooling industry.

If you wish to compare national economies around the world it is wiser to start rec
171

Upbeat,

13/01/2008 22:38:50
recognising the truth.
172

frank mcbride,

13/01/2008 22:40:37
#250, Meths.

I expected a reply but, not the one I got;-)

Lay off the Malaga wines, try Jumilla instead. They are much more pallitable.

Buenos suenos y hasta manana, cavallero.
173

frank mcbride,

lusitania. 13/01/2008 22:56:13
#252, Upbeat.

YOUR revisionism is impossible to argue against.

Were not Germany and Japan devastated during WW11?
Was not Britain the 2nd. richest country in the world after WW11?

Did British Capitalist re-invest, re-tool or look to invest in new technology?

The demise of Britain, as a technically self sufficient country, is due to the Capitalist ethic: live for today; tomorrow is someone else's problem.

This has been the downfall of all Empires and, it will be the downfall of Globalisation (Rome - NuRome).

BTW, my knowledge of Spain might surprise you, but I must brush up on my irony.
174

frank mcbride,

13/01/2008 23:01:10
Upbeat.

Also, I have no problem with responsible Capitalism, only the unfettered kind.

Labour is also capital but, not one you can increase exponentially on a printing press.
175

John Blackley,

Austin, TX 13/01/2008 23:18:44
So, backing the an idea to encourage organ transplants is state interference in my freedom but telling supermarkets what they may or may not offer me to eat isn't?

Just a teensy whiff of the communist idea of a state market here?
176

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13/01/2008 23:32:37
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frank mcbride,

lusitania 13/01/2008 23:37:15
#257, Ex-Hibee

When refering to a "command economy" perhaps you should refer to GW Bush.

"I will not sign off these spending allocations", although they were democratically approved by the Congress.

A Frenchman said, recently, that the difference between Europeans and Americans was that, in Europe, govenments were frightened of the people; in America, the people were frightened of the government.

Would you like to comment, Mr. McCarthy?
178

frank mcbride,

lusitania 14/01/2008 00:18:25
#260, CG.

Labour Government 1946-50.

For the next 39 out of 50 years a Capitalist Government (including 1997-99).

In this period we saw the virtual demise of British manufacturing, mainly due to lack of investment.
We have also seen, in this period, in world terms, British wage deflation.

Also, we have seen the export of British capital all round the world, especially to the USA. Now we see the sale of British jobs to the lowest bidder - normally to Asia. Furthermore, there has been an acceleration of the sale of British companies overseas.

Also, we have seen assets, that belonged to the people of Britain, sold, by Capitalist Governments to their friends, without the consent of the owners (the British people).

The above are the results of unfettered capitalism.

You may notice the number of times that I have used the word British. It was done advisedly because it shows clearly how rotten is the Brittish State.

Imperial Britain is well past its sell-by date. It is as decadent as Imperial Rome. Do we really want to help history repeat itself with NuRome (Globalisation) - the aim of all Empires.
179

Royster,

14/01/2008 06:04:28
At last an SNP policy I sort of agree with. What about supermarkets in the borders? Does the SNP also wish supermerkets to promote locally grown and possibly easier to transport produce from Northumberland?
180

Haleakelaman,

St.Andrews 14/01/2008 07:53:54
Having the food labelled is a good idea. Whether it convinces the fry-up battered mars bar fraternity to buy quality Scottish produce is another thing. The majority of whom will still be shopping for pink squidgy snouts & Ars***** sausages etc. What we stuff into our faces is directly related by what we have to spend so make the local farmer foods affordable if you want to see a healthier nation.
181

Haleakelaman,

St.Andrews 14/01/2008 08:05:38
I also have to disagree with those posting here that seem to have grasped the wrong end of the carrot(sorry). You would think that we didn't produce premium food products. Top chefs love our produce as do a great deal of the top-end London shops/delicatessens. With the right marketing (after all us sheep, sorry humans appear to believe all we see by the media) and spin I believe we could develop a wider and more lucrative market for our good food even if half the nation would rather kill themselves on eating sh*te.
182

livilion,

livingston 18/01/2008 13:23:32
262 Royster,14/01/2008 06:04:28

Have you tried to get to the Scottish Borders(or any part of Scotland) from Northumbria?

Easier said than done, unless you're heading for the likes of Eyemouth up the A1.
The UK transport network in my experience gets a bit vague north of Carlisle and Newcastle compared with how it is heading the other way from there.
183

Brian Hill,

Edinburgh 20/01/2008 01:43:44
Given a choice I generally select products marked with a saltire. It's ridiculous for supermarkets to stock products from the South of England for example when they can get the same product of similar quality from Scottish producers.

 

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