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SNP tax plan will see Capital 'subsidising' rest of Scotland

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Published Date: 03 October 2008
EDINBURGH taxpayers will end up subsidising the rest of Scotland if the SNP manages to implement its local income tax plans, it was claimed today.
Lothians Tory MSP Gavin Brown said the Capital was already losing out in the way business tax revenue was redistributed and now faced losing out even more under the system for handling the proceeds of the new tax.

Finance Secretary John Swinney to
ld MSPs yesterday that under the Scottish Government's local income tax plans, it intended local authorities would keep the money raised in their own area – but he warned government grants to councils would then be adjusted.

Earnings in Edinburgh are 12.8 per cent above the Scottish average, which means the centrally-set 3p local income tax will raise more money in the Capital than in most other parts of the country.

And the fear is the funding which the city currently receives from the Scottish Government would then be reduced.

This year, government grants account for 78 per cent of Edinburgh City Council's £986m revenue budget, with the council tax making up the other 22 per cent. Under the Scottish Government's plans, city taxpayers face footing a far bigger proportion of the bill.

Mr Brown said: "Other councils, with lower employment or lower wages, would not collect so much in local income tax and the Government would have to top up their money with increased rate support grant.

"Edinburgh has lost more than £1 billion over the past decade under the system that redirects money collected in business rates to other parts of Scotland.

The Tories called on the Government to publish figures showing how each council would fare.

He said: "A supplement is only a supplement if there is stability in the baseline funding."

Lothians Independent MSP Margo MacDonald, who won the promise of the Capital City Supplement, insisted it was safe but said she feared the Government could try to exploit the "milch cow that is Edinburgh" and warned that would undermine Edinburgh's ability to drive the Scottish economy.

Edinburgh's Labour group leader Andrew Burns said "These are serious and valid concerns."

City council leader Jenny Dawe said the SNP's plans removed the "localness" and called for the whole formula for council funding to be re-examined.

A Scottish Government spokesman said: "No council in Scotland will lose out. Councils will continue to receive the same overall level of funding."

Double-income households hit

A TWO-INCOME household in Edinburgh living in an average Band D house would be £399 a year worse under local income tax, according to Tory calculations.

And the party warns that would prove "disastrous" in the current economic climate.

The SNP plans to replace the council tax with a local income tax, set at 3p in the pound.

It claims four out of five households would be better off under the plans.

Pricewaterhouse-Coopers calculate that households in band D for council tax would pay more when their combined income hits £49,000 and Band G homes when their income hits £75,000 a year.





The full article contains 520 words and appears in Edinburgh Evening News newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 03 October 2008 11:49 AM
  • Source: Edinburgh Evening News
  • Location: Edinburgh
 
1

LUVMACITY,

IN THE LOBBY 03/10/2008 12:01:01
Sounds awfy like the poll tax to me.
2

eric,

lothian 03/10/2008 12:06:12
Glasgow subbed the country up until now .wonder how we will fair.
3

alex paterson,

edinburgh 03/10/2008 12:22:44
And what would the Tories do,they are about as stable as the old car factory building.
4

Louis Catorze,

03/10/2008 12:23:32
#1...no it doesn't, as you don't have to be working to be on the Electoral register, but have to be to pay local income tax.

Two very different things.

And anyway, what's wrong with Edinburgh subsidising the rest of the country if it is successful? London does it for the rest of the UK at the moment.
5

Howard Moon,

03/10/2008 12:23:37
Great to see the great alliance (Lib/Lab/Tory) once again ganging up to fight a sensible, fair alternative to a horrendously unfair tax.

Funny how they all choose to attack it for their own party purposes. The Tories attack it because it'll mean higher taxes (boo!). Labour attack it because it'll mean less money for public services (boo!). The Lib Dems because, even though they'd have beitten Labour's hands off for it while in the coalition, they can't possibly support the 'nationalists'. And they wonder why their vote is dropping?
6

Road Raga,

EDINBURGH 03/10/2008 12:35:31
Ehh..... #4 I think you will find that the rest of the UK subsidises London
7

druidh,

edinburgh 03/10/2008 12:39:48
"Earnings in Edinburgh are 12.8 per cent above the Scottish average," In that case, I don't see the problem. Regardless of how it is collected, Local Taxes area very small part of the overall pot. Income tax and VAT (per person) in Edinburgh will already be higher than the Scottish average, so no change really. The better off helping the less well off? I think it's called "society" - remember Maggie told us there was no such thing.
8

SuperSaint,

03/10/2008 12:42:29
Only one answer to this ... independence for Edinburgh!
9

Howard Moon,

03/10/2008 12:44:54
#7

Often repeated, but have you ever actually read the quote in context? Hard to diagree with it really.
10

familymanwith2jobsandawifeworkingfulltime,

03/10/2008 12:48:35
"The better off helping the less well off?"

Dont get me started. Those working there **** off supporting those who aren't more like.
11

Hector the Red,

03/10/2008 12:53:05
"A TWO-INCOME household in Edinburgh living in an average Band D house would be £399 a year worse under local income tax, according to Tory calculations."

Too late, Bungling Brown has ensured that we are already far worse off than that at the moment, considering the average fuel bill has risen by more than £399 and that's on top of everything else that has went up.

I don't mind paying more if the systenm is fair, which as far as I can see it is.

Another tick in the SNP box!
12

Road Raga,

EDINBURGH 03/10/2008 13:03:52
I know of one family, who want for nothing.
They have a nice (Council) house, the best of furniture, new computer, plasma TV, Sky, new car etc.

AND YES THEY LIVE ON BENEFITS !

Many workers who will have to pay more with this stupid tax could not afford half of what they buy !
13

Bored,

03/10/2008 13:09:48
A two income household in Edinburgh earning a combined total of £40,000 per year would not see any change in thier tax bill for a band D house. To pay the additional £399 they would have to have a combined income of about £53,000 per year. How many two income households in Edinburgh earn that?
14

Ron D,

Enybru 03/10/2008 13:14:09
They should have built the Scottish Parliament in Kelvinside to save our MPs having to travel.
15

Ganjass,

03/10/2008 13:15:03
#2

What are you talking about, the state of the East End and other parts of Glasgow, show that council of that City are incapabale of adequately funding the local population, never mind the national.

If it wasn't for the City of Culture a.k.a "This city has died a death and needs some serious help award" it would still be a tramps mattress!
16

Irn-Bruce,

Edinburgh 03/10/2008 13:20:32
#4 - No problem, but then it becomes a national income tax, not a local one.

I really wish they would rename Council "Tax" (or Local Income "Tax") to Council "Levy" (or Local Income-based "Levy"), as it would remove the ambiguity.

General taxation is all about the restribution of wealth and, in a "civilised society" (whatever that is), most of us accept that.

A local tax/levy has the same principles but with the caveat that funds that are raised locally should be spent locally.

Money raised in Edinburgh, should be spent in Edinburgh. This way the "higher earners" talked about in the article can help improve the quality of life for those IN EDINBURGH, who are less well off.
17

Duncan in Edinburgh,

03/10/2008 13:22:24
This is a silly argument from Labour. Of course Edinburgh, as one of the economic powerhouses of Scotland, has been and will continue to subsidise the rest of the country.
18

Cod,

Leith 03/10/2008 13:22:47
But you are all discounting one major element of the Local Income Tax - there will be free fish every Friday. Depending upon availability and fishing quotas, you'll have a choice of coley, cod, red snapper and eels. Surely this more than makes up for the extra cost.
19

JenJen,

WestIsBest 03/10/2008 13:30:24
I'm not convinced. There are people so wealthy that they don't need to work at all and very wealthy retired people. Would neither of these groups be expected to contribute?

I'm interested in the mechanics too as the first thing everyone will do is try and avoid it. How's it going to work for people who work for businesses based in England or abroad? What about tax exemption for those who spend a certain amount of time out of Scotland? And how can that be monitored or proven when there is no passport control and no way of knowing when and where wage earners are spending their time.
20

Jasbar,

03/10/2008 13:32:59
#13

Just proving once again how big a pratt you are road raga.

Another worthless contribution from a selfish, stupid idiot, probably fabricated to massage your own ego.

This shecht is not even original, it's trotted out every time someone wants to scapegoat others.

What clowns like you fail to understand is that the assault on so-called benefits cheats happens every time the government, and those like you, get into difficulty.

It's a smokescreen to divert the intellectually challenged away from the real issues. And, I'd say right now that's about how poorly we're governed at all levels, national, regional and local.

Why does it not surprise me that you fall for it hook, line and sinker.

Rather than mince on about so-called benefit cheats, why don't you take to task those who are ripping us off bigtime. The fatcats of our financial system, the commerce that makes Britain little more than their treasure island, and government which dips its hands into our pockets whenever it wants. All of this costs infinitely more than the alleged benefits cheats.

And, why am I not surprised that the morally and politically bankrupt Gordon Brown has brought back from the political graveyard the equally morally and politically bankrupt Peter Mandelson?

Should hike the deviousness of our Cabinet even further, eh?
21

Howard Moon,

03/10/2008 13:47:56
#20

What about the pensioners who are taxed on some antiquated idea of how much their home is worth? Could/(will) the Local Income Tax plans be tightened up before they're voted on? Probably. Will they be an improvement on what we have just now? Definitely.

What are the opposition politicians so afraid of? This shows as much as any issue that they're more interested in thwarting Government plans than actually helping ordinary men and women.
22

The Lone Haranguer,

03/10/2008 13:49:57
#18. Never mind the rest of Scotland, Duncan. As Craigmillar's only living taxpayer, you are doing a fine job, sir!
23

NorT,

Edinburgh 03/10/2008 13:52:31
Bring back the Poll Tax, a much fairer system but implement it properly this time.
24

Arfur,

03/10/2008 13:53:21
Have IQ's sharply dropped in the union partys or something?

The capital city where most of the large banking jobs are will raise more cash than the rest of Scotland??????? No shoite sherlock. Hold the front page.

Lets do the maths simply for some of the union trolls, this is how it would work
(numbers made up)
TAX FUND
today edinburgh £100m £500m
dundee £20m £100m

tomorrow edinburgh £150m £450m
dundee £15m £150m

And the difference is??????? Same amount of money.

25

Bigwull,

edinburgh 03/10/2008 13:56:03
You earn more money, you pay more tax, seems pretty simple to me, the average earings in Edinburgh are higher therefore we will pay more, seems fair enough, the only problem is if you have two earners staying in a 1 bedroomed flat they will be paying more than someone who doesn't need to earn anthing staying on a country estate, now that cannot be fair.
26

Linda,

Edinburgh 03/10/2008 13:58:50
Using this stupid argument, if Edinburgh pays more "national" income tax at present then it is subsidising the rest of Scotland at present.
Will Tories change this if Casmeron gets to number 10?
If Edinburgh contains more wealthy folk than elsewhere then that is fair enough.
27

Mikey,

03/10/2008 14:04:23
Jeez, some of you are really thick!

If Lord Fauntleroy on his country estate earns nothing, then he's destitute! He may not pay by PAYE, but he sure as hell has an income that will be declared to the IR!
28

Noodle doodle,

A horse called macaroni 03/10/2008 14:49:03
Maybe I'm missing something here, but a LOCAL income tax would get spent locally yes? why would it get redistributed to the rest of scotland?
29

Linda,

Edinburgh 03/10/2008 15:39:09
Tories and Pricewaterhouse should do the sums correctly.

Currently Personal Allowance is £6035 per annum

Two income family in Band D with combined income of £50,000 would actually benefit by £51 per annum Council Tax = £1169 Combined LIT = £1138

Edinburgh Council Tax Salary /pension Local Income Tax
Band A £779 £5000 NIL @ 3p in £
Band B £909 £10,000 £119
Band C £1039 £15,000 £269
Band D £1169 £20,000 £419
Band E £1428 £25,000 £569
Band F £1688 £30,000 £719
Band G £1948 £35,000 £869

30

JoeMiddleton,

Edinburgh 03/10/2008 15:42:50
A local INCOME tax is based on income so people on high incomes pay more. It's called fairness but of course that would never matter to a Tory.
31

JenJen,

WestIsBest 03/10/2008 17:06:49
#22 Please don't assume that because I'm questioning something I'm afraid of it or opposed to it.

You see, I want to try and consider this as a real thing that might actually happen to ordinary people, rather than some glib manifesto pipedream (from whichever party - I really don't care which one).

#28 Nice idea but not the case. Plenty of rich folks out there with no regular income and no need to bother the taxman too much either. Open your eyes. It's Pay As You Earn or Pay As You Like.
32

Ctebe,

Edinburgh 03/10/2008 17:30:05
It wouldn't be Edinburgh subsidising the rest of the country, it'd be Edinburgh not having to grab more than its fair share of central funding....
33

Marian,

03/10/2008 18:01:45
This is a non-story as it is a well-known fact of local government taxation/grant funding arrangements that Edinburgh raised business rates are already re-allocated to "subsidise" other areas in Scotland such as Glasgow under the existing arrangements that have been in place for decades under the Conservatives followed by New Labour.
34

Marian,

03/10/2008 18:04:13
This is a non-story as it is a well-known fact of local government taxation/grant funding arrangements that Edinburgh raised business rates are already re-allocated to "subsidise" other areas in Scotland such as Glasgow under the existing arrangements that have been in place for decades under the Conservatives followed by New Labour.
35

Masterpiece,

03/10/2008 18:07:21
While it would be a better deal all round if Edinburgh as one person says subsidises the rest of Scotland. Maybe one of the answers is to take all the treasures that are stacked up in the museums and put them back to the other areas of Scotland from whence they were found like Iona, the Highlands, the North East of Scotland and of course Perthshire.

A better distribution of artifacts would help us all.
36

walter,

03/10/2008 18:32:36
#7 Just for you.
I think we've been through a period where too many people have been given to understand that if they have a problem, it's the government's job to cope with it. 'I have a problem, I'll get a grant.' 'I'm homeless, the government must house me.' They're casting their problem on society. And, you know, there is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first. It's our duty to look after ourselves and then, also to look after our neighbour. People have got the entitlements too much in mind, without the obligations. There's no such thing as entitlement, unless someone has first met an obligation.
Looks totally different when it is put into the context of the whole quote.

Edinburgh is going to be subsidising the rest of Scotland! nothing new there then even if it is detrimental to Edinburgh.
In 96/97 Edinburgh put £56m into the redistribution pot from business taxes raised, in 06/07 it was £111m.
In that time Edinburgh raised £2.2b of which £805m went into the pot, compare that with Glasgow which raised £2.5b and put £615m into the pot.
£66m from Glasgow, £111m from Edinburgh in 06/07, redistribution of wealth may be fair but when those areas that generate the wealth are worse of than the areas where that wealth is being distributed too makes no sense at all.
If one place generates more wealth than another why should it redistribute its wealth to those others making them more affluent than itself.

37

Mr Fuzzy,

Edinburgh 03/10/2008 20:32:37
#13
So they maintain their council house, bought furniture from discount stores, have a 400 pound computer, a 400 pound TV, have a freeview sky card and taken out a loan for a car (which may give them some money back if they sell it second hand).

All of that will probably add up to less than 5000 pounds.
38

brettgallacher,

edinburgh 03/10/2008 20:35:09
what that parasite brown fails to mention is he pays nothing for the various houses he owns at the tax payers expense, its simple really if you earn more you pay more , the only people moaning are people who earn milions at the tax payers expense already and pay no council tax
39

Ian down under,

Aiberdeen 03/10/2008 20:55:59
Sorry folks if you take all the oil revenues [that get credited to London now] and credit them where they belong, in the Granite City then I think I know who will be doing the subsidising.
Mind you if the Princes St holes get deep enough you might end up with a wee black gold bonanza too.
40

Voldemort,

Edinburgh 03/10/2008 23:41:27
A testament to the ode that anyone who wishes to be a politician should never be allowed to become one!

I am not a SNP supporter but they are a breath of fresh air compared to ludite Labour - I just don't see the point is changing the council tax system. If it ain't broke don't fix it ! Cap council tax - yes please ! Have 'efficiency' quotas - yes please ! Restrict staff numbers - Yes please ! But don't flap about changing things that don't need to be changed !

Politicians have a habit of trying to wipe their backsides after they've pulled their trousers up don't you think !?
41

Gina Gibson,

Wales 04/10/2008 09:08:44
It seems only fair since the rest of Scotland are paying £600 Million for Edinburgh's tramline!

 

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