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Road bridge to get speed cameras – and limit may be cut to 40mph

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Published Date: 25 February 2008
SPEED cameras are to be deployed on the Forth Road Bridge during roadworks and could become a permanent feature to cut crashes and congestion.
A reduction in the crossing's speed limit from 50mph to 40mph may also be considered.

Average-speed cameras, which measure vehicle speeds over set distances, will be used to enforce a 30mph restriction during work starting in 2009 or 2010.

But
Tony Martin, the leader of the Forth Estuary Transport Authority (Feta), which runs the bridge, said such equipment should be kept to improve traffic flow by keeping speeds down.

He said lorry speeds appeared to have increased since the abolition of tolls two weeks ago because drivers no longer had to stop before crossing.

Average-speed cameras have dramatically reduced speeding and crashes on the A77 in Ayrshire and at several roadworks sites across Scotland. But some drivers' groups opposed permanent installations on the bridge and called for its 50mph speed limit to be increased instead.

Feta is planning to use average-speed cameras when 7ft-high ramps are installed for the replacement of worn-out carriageway expansion joints.

The work will take place on each carriageway in consecutive years, with ramps installed above the two joints, beside each of the bridge's main towers.

The 30mph limit is needed because the ramps will make vehicles more prone to winds, which funnel round the towers.

Officials are anxious drivers do not accelerate then brake sharply between the two 300ft-long ramps, causing a ripple effect that slows traffic.

Mr Martin said: "The cameras will be temporary, but it is a good way of trialling the system to see if it works and whether we could do it over the whole bridge.

"People are very suspicious of cameras, but on a structure like this, safety is so important that drivers have to keep their speeds down. Any incident causes massive traffic disruption."

The Feta convener added that cutting the bridge's speed limit by 10mph to improve traffic flow should also be examined, following its success on the M25 around London. He said: "It is something we should keep under review."

Neil Greig, of the Institute of Advanced Motorists' Motoring Trust, said any permanent speed curbs should be aimed at lorries. He said: "There is no doubt lorries do most of the damage to the bridge. Until we get a new bridge, we will need such technology to keep traffic flowing."

However, Bruce Young, of the Association of British Drivers, said: "I can see no merit in permanent cameras, and the speed limit should be raised to 70mph. Studies in the United States have shown that raising speeds makes drivers space apart better and improves the flow."





The full article contains 462 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 24 February 2008 10:19 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Forth Bridges
 
1

Mercutio,

FALKIRK 25/02/2008 07:42:48
It is probably quicker to sail fro Castlebay To Oban!
2

NAATS,

Britain 25/02/2008 08:34:56
Yesterday the Scotland on Sunday headline was "Scrapping bridge toll adds half an hour to road misery across the Forth".
Today we are told that lorries are travelling too fast now that the tolls are gone!!

The truth is that the lifting of tolls has speeded up traffic on both bridges, but the authorities seem to have done their best to bring it to a halt in various ways. We hope that these obstructions were necessary and are only temporary and that the bridges will be managed to ensure smooth flow for drivers.

There is however a concern that the anti roads pro tolls etc faction will do their best to slow traffic and create congestion. If so then is it too much to hope that those people will be removed from having any control over bridges and roads?
3

Mr. Lachie Todd,

Edinburgh 25/02/2008 08:36:33
After reading the opinion of some middle-aged boy racer representing some nondescript 'Bats out of Hell' kamikaze drivers group, any safety conscious person will realise that we need speed limits!

As for his complete untruth about "Studies in the United States have shown that raising speeds makes drivers space apart better and improves the flow"?

Since the Arab Oil Crisis in 1974, the Federal and State speed limit is still a uniform 55 miles per hour.

The U.S. Department of Transportation has made it Federal policy that the upper limit of 55mph will never be raised again for three reasons?

1) The U.S. road casualty rate is the worst in the world with an average of 100,000 serious injuries and fatalities annually.

2) 15 out of every 100 U.S. drivers are uninsured

3) Oil is running out.

4

mr angry,

ayrshire 25/02/2008 09:06:19
still an amazing turnaround from gridlock on sunday due to tolls being removed to , speeding lorries we must restrict speed on Monday. This paper needs to get a grip and start to check what it prints, its like a comic.
5

Bruce Young,

25/02/2008 09:32:17
Sorry, Lachie, you have got most of it wrong - even that the ABD is a "kamikaze drivers' group" and that oil is running out!

Following the 1973 oil crisis and the U.S. government's imposition of a national 55 mph (88 km/h) limit, statistical analyses indicate highway safety worsened. And when Congress finally repealed federal speed limits in November 1995, to much caterwauling from the "speed-kills" lobby, with dire predictions of 6,400 increased deaths and a million additional injuries, the actual effect was diametrically opposite. Traffic deaths dropped to a record low by 1997, including in the 33 states that had immediately raised their speed limits. Meanwhile, Americans saved about 200 million person-hours in terms of less time spent on the road, with a reported net economic benefit of higher speed limits of $2 billion to $3 billion a year. A U.S. National Research Council panel pegged the cost of the 55-mph limit at about one billion person-hours per year.

Likewise, a study by the U.S. National Motorists Association found the safest period on Montana's Interstate highways was when there were no daytime speed limits or enforceable speed laws at all. When Montana implemented a new "safety program," imposing speed limits and enforcement, the state's fatal accident rate didn't just increase, it doubled, according to NMA statistics.

Other interesting findings of the Montana study were that vehicles travelling faster than average had the lowest accident rates, and there was no positive correlation between speed enforcement and accident rates on rural highways.

If anything, the highways became less safe with enforcement. By global standards, North American speed limits are absurdly low. In most European countries the highway speed limit is either 120 km/h or 130 km/h. Britain and Sweden have the strictest limits at 110 km/h. About three-quarters of the famous German Autobahnen have no speed limit at all. The "recommended velocity" is 130 km/h, but aver
6

Bruce Young,

25/02/2008 09:33:10
If anything, the highways became less safe with enforcement. By global standards, North American speed limits are absurdly low. In most European countries the highway speed limit is either 120 km/h or 130 km/h. Britain and Sweden have the strictest limits at 110 km/h. About three-quarters of the famous German Autobahnen have no speed limit at all. The "recommended velocity" is 130 km/h, but average speeds in unregulated areas are about 150 km/h. Nevertheless, the overall safety record on Autobahnen is comparable to that on controlled-access highways in European countries with speed limits. A 2005 study by the German Interior Ministry found sections with unrestricted speed had the same accident record as sections with speed limits.

The preponderance of evidence, as opposed to supposition, prejudice, hysteria and conventional wisdom, indicates speed, per se, doesn't "kill," that there are massive economic costs consequential to imposing unnecessarily low speed limits

It is worth remembering that the UK national speed limits were introduced in an era when most cars had drum brakes (prone to fade), cross-ply tyres and crap suspension. ABS, PAS, traction control, EBS etc hadn't been sorted and nobody had air-bags, SIPBs, crumple zones, collapsible steering columns and probably not shatterproof glass. Nor were seat belts a feature of most cars.

There is a strong case for increasing our national speed limits to reduce congestion and also for removing speed limiters on HGV's to reduce rolling road-blocks as heavy trucks struggle to pass slower moving ones.

Think about it - don't just repeat the spin!
7

Bruce Young,

25/02/2008 09:34:28
To find out what the Association of British Drivers is REALLY about, see www.abd.org.uk
8

ddmc,

25/02/2008 09:44:48
#3 yes i agree with you, FETA & others predicted that traffic & congestion would be worse after scrapping the tolls, they have to manipulate the figures somehow, this seems like the route they have chosen.
9

Bruce Young,

25/02/2008 09:48:27
When Alastair Dalton asked me to comment, I wish that I had had the presence of mind to suggest that, if they can't get tolls on the Bridge, they will settle for speeding fines - and to increase the odds, they will reduce the speed limit!

There is probably a lot of truth in that, too!
10

Bruce Young,

25/02/2008 10:12:58
Scallywag, I don't disagree with anything you have said but I think we should remember the delays before the new spur road was opened a few months ago, when the traffic on the totally inadequate A8000 often suffered hour long delays as it was filtered through the single carriageway bottleneck.

Peak times will always be most vulnerable to congestion; the removal of the tollbooths should not - that it does can only be attributed to organisational vandalism and a cack-handed approach to the job!
11

truthsleuth,

25/02/2008 11:06:55
#3 NAATS,Britain
Another paranoid petrolhed
#12 Bruce Young,
... indicates speed, per se, doesn't "kill,.."
Very selectively true but definitly scientifically not true.
Damage to occupants/vehicles is caused by the energy having to be transferred between objects
energy = 0.5 x velocity squared x mass
means DAMAGE DONE INCREASES AS THE SQUARE OF THE SPEED
ie if da
doubling speed increases damage 4 times there aint no arguing with that.
12

truthsleuth,

South of the Border 25/02/2008 11:17:10
NO the Association of British Drivers is a group of petrolheads whose soul intention is to defy any limitation imposed upon the lame brained boy racers who believe the roads are THEIR domain and the devil take the rest of us.
As a motorist a pedestrian, a member of the wider community I will oppose silly legislation but I will also support any legislation that will/could save lives.
In my lifetime I have seen the RAC/AA change from groups that opposed any legislation that 'restricted the motorists freedom' no matter what it was to groups that now realise most of their members are safety conscious motorists who treat the roads and cars as means of getting from A to B and not a cheap substitute for fairground rides or F1 racetracks.
Of course the lame brains have all joined the ABD
the of Association of Braindead Drivers
13

truthsleuth,

25/02/2008 11:23:46
PS ALMOST all roads where speed restrictions are introduced the accident rate reduces either in the severity of result or number or both.
The use the argument that vehicle design having reduced accidents (severity or number) should give reason to increase speed limits is typical of petrol head mentality. These design benefits should be used to maintain the safety of others from the twisted mentality of the ABD.
Many of the lives/injuries saved/reduced are via improvement in medical treatments and statistical counting.
14

Klaus Dubois,

Edinburgh 25/02/2008 11:37:31
Current issues with delays to crossing the Forth bridge can be entirely attributed to antique project management. I would have thought that extending the existing 50mph slightly (i.e. 0.5 mile) south would allow for the free flow of traffic.
In general terms I'd vote for increasing the speed limits out of town, & decreasing them in built-up areas. There's been an underhanded attempt to achieve the latter via placing bus stops at choke points & on corners; placing recycling facilities at junctions; turning 'A' roads into 3rd world farmtracks, etc...
PS I'm a petrolhead & proud. Why do people want to discriminate against me ?
15

Mr. Lachie Todd,

Edinburgh 25/02/2008 11:42:32
6# According to the Department of Transportation 'U.S. Speed Limits' in 1995, the vast majority of States, 42 out of 51, did NOT increase the speed limit above 55 mph. The Federal upper limit of 70mph was only ADVISORY.

What you also failed to state was that the 70mph limit
is mainly used on the few remaining TOLL roads, and NOT inter-states where it is still 55mph.

According to the Department of Transportation, in 2006 there were 113.578 casualties on U.S. roads and it has been increasing by some 2 percent per year for the last 14 years. The powerful U.S. motoring lobby are in denial about the causes of this carnage. Speed kills!

Oil is running out and just watch it rise to between $150 and $200 a barrel by the end of the decade!

Finally, wherever youy drive on the autobhan system in Germany you will see overhead gantries which impose a mandatory speed limit when the weather and road conditions are bad. You can only drive at the top speed in clear, dry weather.

16

BK,

Cyberspace 25/02/2008 11:43:45
#6, Bruce Young,
the NMA the "the U.S. National Motorists Association."
That would be a totally impartial and unbiased organisation, just like the ABD, wouldn't it?
17

Alternative (High Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 25/02/2008 12:48:04
They've got to make their money somehow now that the tolls have gone, haven't they?

In any case, the legality of temporarily dropping the speed limit on the bridge has to be called into question. It is only legal to lower the speed limit when the road is subject to the national speed limit or is a motorway. The bridge is neither.

30mph is also far too low a speed. Setting the limit at this level and then enforcing it with brain-dead speed cameras is blatent money-making.

Speed cameras should all be scrapped.

Truthsleuth, I think you will find that the ABD are the one body who talk sense regarding speed limits. and speed cameras.

Also, why is there a discussion going on about US roads? They are totally different to British roads and so are their cars...

"I'm sorry you find our roads to be so small, but the cars over here have steering wheels."
-- Basil Fawlty
18

Man of Reason,

25/02/2008 13:32:04
Bruce Young - the speed limit on the Forth Road Bridge cannot be increased because the bridge parapets are not designed to contain vehicles travelling faster than 50mph.

All these paranoid petrol-head types need to stop and think - on the one hand they are accusing the authorities of deliberately creating congestion, then in the same breath they say how much more smoothly the traffic is flowing!

Why FETA would want to deliberately create congestion is beyond me. This whole debate seems to have been stirred up by political activists rather than the bridge authority.
19

sceptic,

25/02/2008 13:50:06
17 Mr. Lachie Todd

You do write some rubbish this is 2008 not 1995.

Speed limits in the United States are set by each state. Speed limits are usually:

* 50–65 mph (80–105 km/h) on major highways inside cities
* 45–65 mph (70–105 km/h) on rural two-lane roads
* 55–70 mph (90–110 km/h) on rural expressways
* 65–75 mph (105–120 km/h) on rural Interstate highways

The highest limits are usually found in the inland West and the lowest limits are usually found in the Northeast, and some limits fall outside these ranges. For example, some two-lane rural roads in Texas have 75 mph (120 km/h) speed limits, and there are two stretches of Interstate in West Texas with a daytime 80 mph (130 km/h) speed limit for passenger vehicles.
20

sceptic,

25/02/2008 13:56:46
17
The speed limit in California is 70 mph. Being a law abiding visitor I normally drive about the limit, conditions permitting. It would be fair to say I appeared to be among the 5% of the slowest drivers in California.
21

Man of Reason,

25/02/2008 14:30:54
#3 NAATS - Why don't we abolish FETA and invite the Fife Federation of Small businesses to maintain the bridge?

I'm sure the travelling public will feel much safer with the bridge run by taxi-drivers and white van men rather than professional civil engineers.
22

The Tin Man,

Over the Rainbow 25/02/2008 14:47:00
It is absolutely essential that I drive at 10 mph over the speed limit. Otherwise, I will not feel superior.
23

Alternative (High Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 25/02/2008 14:54:13
#26:

Even into a thick bank of freezing fog at night?
24

Mr. Lachie Todd,

Edinburgh 25/02/2008 15:56:43
22# According to Texas Online there are no highways anywhere in Texas with 80 mph speed limits, and certainly none in West Texas? As stated before speed limits are now advisory and most towns, cities and counties in Texas have an avaerage speed limit of 55 mph? According to Texas Online there are no country roads anywhere in Texas with speed limits of 75 mph?

Is the State of Texas website providing misleading information?

Today, in Rotterdam, a barrel of crude went over $97!
How much longer will it take a barrel of oil to reach $200 dollars, and then the skys the limit!

The golden age of motoring is long gone, and as he acknowledged in a recent programme, even Jeremy Clarkson knows it!
25

sceptic,

25/02/2008 16:05:52
28
I take it you are into history in a big way! This is 2008.

AUSTIN, Texas Yeehaw! Texans who brag they do things bigger and better now can go faster too.

State transportation officials on Thursday boosted speed limits on two stretches of rural highway from 75 mph to 80 mph — the United States' highest posted speed limit.

More speed signs will be changed in the next few days in 10 mostly rural counties in West Texas: a 432-mile stretch of Interstate 10 between El Paso and Kerrville, and 89 miles of Interstate 20 between Monahans and the I-10 interchange at the cusp of the Jeff Davis Mountains.

Congress set a national 55 mph speed limit in the 1970s but it was abolished in 1995. Twelve states besides Texas have speed limits of 75 mph on some roads.
26

drew 33,

duddingston 25/02/2008 16:29:29
#28
Don't know about Texas but in Nevada the limits are mostly above 65 mph and they only seem to be enforced in and around towns and they are few and far between.
You can see a map of Nevada speed limits posted here: http://www.nevadadot.com/traveler/maps/StateMaps/pdfs/speed_map.pdf

Beginning December 8, 1995 speed limits on many of the more remote Nevada highways were raised to as high as 75 mph.

Some specific highway areas of interest are as follows:

I-15 from the California Border to Las Vegas - 70 mph
I-95 North of Las Vegas - 70 mph
I-15 Northeast of Las Vegas to Arizona - 75 mph
I-80 From Reno to Utah - variable from 55 to 75 mph
Areas I-50 from Lake Tahoe to Ely and Utah - 65mph
I-395 North of Carson to Reno - 70 mph
I-95 THROUGH downtown Las Vegas is now 65 mph!
27

E300,

tomich 25/02/2008 16:46:18
Mr. Lachie Todd

"Today, in Rotterdam, a barrel of crude went over $97!
How much longer will it take a barrel of oil to reach $200 dollars, and then the skys the limit!"

If you are so sure of that why don't you get a mortgage and invest in oil? Surely a "no brainer" and particularly apposite for yourself. In any case motorists are already paying $318 a barrel at the pump in the UK.
28

Euan,

Edinburgh 25/02/2008 19:27:10
I think where major roadworks are concerned, average speed cameras are actually a good way of keeping peoples speed in check.

The thing is on the forth road bridge, 30mph is too slow, 40mph would be much more sensible.

I for one feel fixed-location cameras should be abolished in the UK. They do nothing at all for road safety and exist purely as a revenue-gathering tool.

Not only this, but the national motorway speed limit should be increased to 85mph, I mean thats what most people drive at anyway isn't it?!

29

geekpie,

forfar 25/02/2008 22:21:34
"But some drivers' groups opposed permanent installations on the bridge and called for its 50mph speed limit to be increased instead."

Edmund King of the AA by any chance? He talks a lot of ar*e and gets loads of publicity thanks to lazy journalists.
30

Alternative (High Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 25/02/2008 22:40:12
#33:

When it is not busy, and there is no adverse weather, the Forth Road Bridge is safe for 80mph.

Why have a lower limit?
31

,

25/02/2008 23:32:08
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
32

Chris W,

26/02/2008 08:24:35
Tony Martin said "lorry speeds appeared to have increased since the abolition of tolls two weeks ago because drivers no longer had to stop before crossing."
Mr Martin should apply for a Nobel Prize with a brain like that (apparrently they give them to just about anybody these days).

 

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