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Price of trying to cheat death: £40,000



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Published Date: 09 April 2008
IN MANY ways, DJ MacLennan considers the monthly payment of £40 which comes out his bank account a typically prudent course of action. "My arrangement is just like a life insurance policy," he told The Scotsman yesterday. "There's people who pay out £60 to £70 a month on their (life] policies. It's just the same as that."
What is markedly different, however, is the fate that awaits Mr MacLennan upon his death. He will not be laid in the ground, nor have his remains cremated. Instead, his brain will be cryonically preserved in the hope that, one day, he will again expe
rience life.

The 36-year-old from Skye is one of a handful of Britons to sign up with the Alcor Life Extension Foundation, an American organisation which vows that, medical advances permitting, science will find a way of curing whatever killed their "patients".

The idea was first mooted in 1964, when Robert Ettinger, a US physics teacher, published The Prospect of Immortality, which predicted that death might not be irreversible; that it was part of a series of cycles of life. The idea confronts the very heart of human nature head-on: whereas mortality was once a predestined biological fact, a small band of scientists now regard it as a challenge to be overcome.

As the science stands, when a cryonics client dies, their body will be filled with a special fluid similar to anti-freeze, before it is plunged into a bath of iced water. It is then wrapped in polythene, submerged in alcohol and lowered into 120kg of ice in an insulated fibreglass box, before being airlifted to Alcor's facilities in the scorching deserts of Phoenix, Arizona, where it is frozen in capsules of liquid nitrogen.

Mr MacLennan has not opted to have his whole body frozen, a process which costs around £75,000. Instead, only his brain will be preserved – a method known as neuropreservation – for around £40,000. He hopes that in some way he will be able to inhabit a new body, or his consciousness will be loaded into a new being, in the same way as we upload files on to a computer.

The course these scientists are navigating is a slow and arduous one. They have yet to freeze and revive a mammal, let alone a human being or a brain. If there is to be another great breakthrough in the field, it must come in the cryopreservation techniques.

At present, the process whereby bodies are frozen – to a temperature of –320F (about –195C) – causes phenomena known as "acoustic fracturing events". Simply put, the brain and other internal organs audibly crack and fracture. Much in the same way ice-cream placed in a freezer develops ice crystals, so such crystals accumulate around the inside of a human body.

A relatively new technique, known as vitrification, allows blood to be replaced with a cocktail of chemicals resembling anti-freeze – known as cryoprotectant fluid – using a machine like the cardio-pulmonary bypass devices found in hospitals. This is believed to offer greater protection to the internal organs. However, the cryoprotectants are toxic, and the possible danger they pose has yet to be fully grasped.

Legal and ethical hurdles also remain – including the fact that it is illegal to vitrify someone while, medically speaking, they remain alive. Only when a client's heart stops beating and they are declared dead can the cryonics work begin. And it must commence quickly, lest ischaemic injury – lack of bloodflow – to the brain and other tissues occurs.

Dr Aubrey de Grey, a Cambridge-educated biomedical gerontologist and the author of Ending Aging, said funding issues mean scientists in the field are hindered.

"It's mainly private companies who invest," he says. "A lot of governments believe it is a little too weird to invest in, despite the fact, scientifically, that is far from the case. Cryonics can help us learn how preserve organs, an immensely important area.

"Progress is being made, however, and scientists are learning how to preserve people carefully without damage. I know of work involves a liquid being used to maintain the oxygen levels in someone who has recently died, which will prevent decay."

Mr MacLennan, who is a partner and practice manager with the architectural firm Dualchas, is one of a select band. Alcor, a non-profit organisation, has only 842 members, 79 of whom are already in cryopreservation. Around 70 people in the UK have signed up with either Alcor or the Cryonics Institute, which is based in Michigan. Each client wears a small tag engraved with contact numbers for the cryonicists.

If necessary, Mr MacLennan says he will relocate to Phoenix so that Alcor's staff can start the process as soon as possible after his death, but he believes by the time he is of pensionable age the network of facilities may have spread to the north of Scotland. Already, there is a centre based in the south of England.

"At the moment, it's still unclear how to bring the consciousness of a human brain back, but it's too precious to simply waste, and science in the field is improving," he says.

"Vitrification was developed recently," he adds. "It may take nano-technology, using atoms as building blocks, to make the breakthrough, but no-one knows just yet."

Mr MacLennan points out it is not only the scientific unknowns that stand in the way. The standing of cryonics may fall out of favour, or, he suggests, "the firm may go bust, or there might be an earthquake, or terrorists could destroy the centre in protest. There are a whole number of practical issues."

At the beginning of the 21st century, there exist a few, marvellous developments, but the great question of how to bring the dead back to life remains unanswered.

Mr MacLennan is adamant he has made the right choice: "As Alcor say, being frozen at –320F and stored in a stainless steel vat is the second-worst thing that can happen to you."

INVESTING FOR THE TRULY LONG-TERM

THEY say that when you go, you can't take it with you – but cryonics may soon render this old adage redundant. Though it has still a long way to go before successfully reviving a dead human being, the burgeoning science of cryonics has captivated growing numbers of the wealthy, who believe that in time they will be able to enjoy their fortunes from beyond the grave.

The process of being frozen itself requires considerable sums of money, with around £75,000 for a full body, and £40,000 for a brain. The pay-off, though, could be incalculable.

David Pizer, a former vice-president of cryonics firm Alcor, and a holiday-resort owner in Arizona, has made arrangements to be frozen along with his wife and their favourite pet dogs. He has invested his fortune, which is equivalent to about £5 million, in a scheme known as a personal revival trust, which name the deceased as beneficiaries. He believes that if, and when, he comes back to life his investment will have grown dramatically.

Jakob Canady, a Floridan real estate investor who died four years ago, left his millions in a similar trust, with instructions they be paid out when his "human remains are revived and restored to life". But his plans are at the centre of a family dispute, with his daughters contesting the arrangements.

Such trusts are legal in 20 US states. Similar trusts exist in the tax haven of Liechtenstein.





The full article contains 1258 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 08 April 2008 10:11 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
 
1

Angus Ogg,

09/04/2008 00:17:52
I've heard of "Spending the Kids Inheritance". They have even invented a term... "SKIERS". The silver haired foxes that rave it up and spend spend spend before they croak.

But Jakob Canady !

Can you imagine the relatives at the reading of the will? Expecting millions, and the attorney says: "The dearly deceased is in the fridge, and has frozen his assets off".

You could even coin a new term: "Own Life Deceased's Future Useful Cash - Kids Endup Rippedoff" !
2

Horrible Cankers at the Cyber Shebeen,

09/04/2008 00:36:40
Freezin yer heid...ah mean c'mon!.....the religious folk will be up in arms aboot this....whit aboot the soul..dae ye think it hings aboot, frozen as well..waitin tae be thawed oot...whit if it boggers off elsewhere, bored, and pops up somewhere else...meanwhile you git yer heid thawed an yer a slabberin zombie...mumblin cabbage like...ah jist couldnae...couldnae sit an talk tae somebuddy thit had a frozen heid...it wid gie me the heebie jeebies...imagine shakin thir haun!...ooooh disnae bear thinkin aboot....
3

Matt there,

somewhere 09/04/2008 00:42:20
What utter nonsense! This is a sort of secular religion! Life after death without having to bother about the existence of God"

There was a science fiction story where people who had themselves placed in suspended animation at a giant facility were the only source of food for the survivors of an ecological disaster.
4

Scullion,

Canada 09/04/2008 01:30:41
Even if it were possible, what would you thaw out to enjoy? Your friends and family would be long gone. Surely this is hubris to the extreme.
If Jesus, Ghandi, Einstein and Benny Hill couldn't live forever, why should you?
5

BrianHill,

Edinburgh 09/04/2008 01:53:56
Do I detect a degree of mocking among the merriment of these posts? (first 2 very funny lol).

What do we have to lose? Many ideas which we hold as normal now began life on the fringes. Ideas scientific, social, legal or moral.

I'm sure some worthwhile discoveries will come from this research. I watch with interest.
6

Guga II,

Rockall 09/04/2008 04:35:15
#5 BrianHill.

"I watch with interest."

Only for a short time mate, unless you get yourself frozen too; and the defrosting works!
7

donald,

glasgow 09/04/2008 05:01:57
"Briton from Skye?"

Is he a white settler?

Potted heid?
8

GalacticCannibal,

Murrieta; . CA.....a place in the Sun 09/04/2008 05:32:14
2
Horrible Cankers at the Cyber Shebeen,
------------------------------
Hey dude

after 10 months reading these posts . I can now understand Scots local dialect . Urs included .

But for those who wish to come back at a later date.

.Cryonically preserved is domed . All homosapien's live tissues, that are deep frozen, are destroyed by that process.

IN the days that were to follow .
In the days that were to come

Stop looking at my bum*

GC
9

South Ayrshire Sanny Hossack,

09/04/2008 08:30:29
The editor says you have to try not to get so close to the plants when you are doing the canabis farm stories, its done something to your mind Martin. You will be telling us next that Dr Who wears nothing below his kilt, have you ever thought of writing sience fiction or have you started with this story?
10

Steven P,

edinburgh 09/04/2008 08:37:26
How can Mr MacLennan know that these Alcor people won't just bin his brain when he finally conks out.
He is paying 40 quid a month for no outlay by Alcor (he isnt dead yet) and when he finally dies he cant check what is done with his brain.
Ever heard of a programme called 'The Real Hustle' Mr MacLennan. Watch it. You're being kippered.
11

Am Balach,

Isle of Skye 09/04/2008 09:08:14
Mr MacLennan's brain has inspired a Radio Scotland play. It's being broadcast on Monday at 3.30 and available on Listen Again. Truth is stranger than fiction however.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/scotland/radioscotland/jzdiary/
12

WKKB,

09/04/2008 09:40:28
A Whole new meaning to 'Brain Freeze'

Alright, Alright.... someone had to say it
13

Bluevoice,

Dubai, U.A.E. 09/04/2008 09:58:37
Awa' an' boil yer heid!!! (o:
14

P I Staker,

09/04/2008 10:07:00
Would have saved Noah a lot of time and trouble.

(Did Noah take fish on to the Ark? - if so why, the place wis flooded.)
15

Horrible Cankers at the Cyber Shebeen,

09/04/2008 10:31:25
10...Dont you worry, there will be some lawyers somewhere paid a good few bob to ensure that this does not happen...after all, it opens up a whole new market...'Stiff watchers'.....those who ensure you are kept in yer suspended state and not minced up and fed tae the dug...

So are these frozen brains expecting a frozen body to be thawed oot when the time comes...or a nice warm cadaver?....makes you wunner what the sales pitch was

"I can assure you Hank...may I call you Hank? I feel as if we are talking man to man here....60 or 70 year from now you'll wake up to find yourself staring at a body rippling with muscle..the face of a Greek God and the virility of a jock bursting with hormones"

Too bad the mixed bag may come via a multi-pile up...with families clamouring to sell their 'loved' ones body parts to the highest bidder...

"Aw baloney...he's dead I tell ya...pull the plug!"
16

Boy Wonder,

09/04/2008 11:10:53
Only the Floyd could do this article justice!

The lunatics are freezing brains
The lunatics are freezing brains
Pre-frontal lobes, parietals and precental paths
Got to keep the synaptic neural path

The lunatics have frozen the cerebellum
The lunatics have frozen the cerebellum
The occipital lobe is facing to the floor
And every day the it freezes up some more

And if the pineal gland open many years too soon
And if there is no activity in the brain
And if the head explodes with my very last breath
I'll see you on the other side of death

The lunatics are freezing brains
The lunatics are letting them do it
You raised the blade, you cut the head
Didn't even wait till I was dead

So lock the door
And throw away the key
There's an idiot in my head and it is me.

And if your brain bursts, forget about being saved
You shout and no one seems to hear
Unless the wavelength you're on starts seeing the freezers' wallets
You'll never see the dark side of the moon

17

Tom R,

09/04/2008 11:13:53
#5 BrianHill

I congratulate you on approaching this issue as I do and being prepared to examine the facts. You are quite right in suggesting that at the very least good will come out of this-it already has in terms of advances in techniques for the cryopreservation of human tissue used in transplantation.

For those wishing to explore further a cheaper, but not necessarily inferior, organisation I recommend the organisaion founded by Robert Ettinger (who is still alive), namely the cryonics institite at www.cryonics.org

The theory of cryonics does not conflict with any known laws of physics. Note the signatories below in " " who have indicated in 2006 that cryonics is a credible approach worthy of investigation:

"Scientists' Open Letter on Cryonics

To whom it may concern,

Cryonics is a legitimate science-based endeavor that seeks to preserve human beings, especially the human brain, by the best technology available. Future technologies for resuscitation can be envisioned that involve molecular repair by nanomedicine, highly advanced computation, detailed control of cell growth, and tissue regeneration.

With a view toward these developments, there is a credible possibility that cryonics performed under the best conditions achievable today can preserve sufficient neurological information to permit eventual restoration of a person to full health.

The rights of people who choose cryonics are important, and should be respected.

Sincerely (56 Signatories)


Signatories encompass all disciplines relevant to cryonics, including Biology, Cryobiology, Neuroscience, Physical Science, Nanotechnology and Computing, Ethics and Theology. [Signature date in brackets]

Gregory Benford, Ph.D.
(Physics, UC San Diego) Professor of Physics; University of California; Irvine, CA [3/24/04]
Alaxander Bolonkin, Ph.D.
(Leningrad Politechnic University) Professor, Moscow Aviation Institute; Senior Research Associate NASA Dryden Flight Research Center;
18

Tom R,

09/04/2008 11:17:43
continued:
Nick Bostrom, Ph.D.
Research Fellow; University of Oxford; Oxford, United Kingdom [3/25/04]
Kevin Q. Brown, Ph.D.
(Computer Science, Carnegie-Mellon) Member of Technical Staff; Lucent Bell Laboratories (retired); Stanhope, NJ [3/23/04]
Professor Manfred Clynes, Ph.D.
Lombardi Cancer Center; Department of Oncology and Department of Physiology and Biophysics, Georgetown University; Washington, DC [3/28/04]
Daniel Crevier, Ph.D.
(MIT) President, Ophthalmos Systems Inc., Longueuil, Qc, Canada; Professor of Electrical Engineering (ret.), McGill University & École de Technologie Supérieure, Montreal, Canada. [4/7/05]
Antonei B. Csoka, Ph.D.
Assistant Professor of Obstetrics, Gynecology and Reproductive Sciences, University of Pittsburgh School of Medicine Pittsburgh Development Center, Magee-Womens Research Institute [9/14/05]
Aubrey D.N.J. de Grey, Ph.D.
Research Associate; University of Cambridge;Cambridge, United Kingdom [3/19/04]
João Pedro de Magalhães, Ph.D.
University of Namur; Namur, Belgium [3/22/04]
Thomas Donaldson, Ph.D.
Editor, Periastron; Founder, Institute for Neural Cryobiology; Canberra, Australia [3/22/04]
Christopher J. Dougherty, Ph.D.
Chief Scientist; Suspended Animation Inc; Boca Raton, FL [3/19/04]
K. Eric Drexler, Ph.D.
Chairman of Foresight Institute; Palo Alto, CA [3/19/04]
Robert A. Freitas Jr., J.D.
Author, Nanomedicine Vols. I & II; Research Fellow, Institute for Molecular Manufacturing, Palo Alto, CA [3/27/04]
D. B. Ghare, Ph.D.
Principle Research Scientist, Indian Institute of Science, Bangalore, India [5/24/04]
Ben Goertzel, Ph.D.
(Mathematics, Temple) Chief Scientific Officer, Biomind LLC; Columbia, MD [3/19/04]
Peter Gouras, M.D.
Professor of Ophthalmology, Columbia University; New York City, NY [3/19/04]
Amara L. Graps, Ph.D.
Researcher, Astrophysics; Adjunct Professor of Astronomy; Institute of Physics of the Interplanetary Space; American University of Rome (Italy) [3/22/04]
19

Tom R,

09/04/2008 11:24:50
continued:
Raphael Haftka, Ph.D.
(UC San Diego) Distinguished Prof. U. of Florida; Dept. of Mechanical & Aerospace Engineering, Gainesville, FL [3/22/04]
J. Storrs Hall, Ph.D.
Research Fellow, Institute for Molecular Manufacturing, Los Altos, CA
Fellow, Molecular Engineering Research Institute, Laporte, PA [3/26/04]
Robin Hanson, Ph.D.
(Social Science, Caltech) Assistant Professor (of Economics); George Mason University; Fairfax, VA [3/19/04]
Steven B. Harris, M.D.
President and Director of Research; Critical Care Research, Inc; Rancho Cucamonga, CA [3/19/04]
Michael D. Hartl, Ph.D.
(Physics, Harvard & Caltech) Visitor in Theoretical Astrophysics; California Institute of Technology; Pasadena, CA [3/19/04]
Tad Hogg, Ph.D.
(Physics, Caltech and Stanford) research staff, HP Labs, Palo Alto, CA [10/10/05]
James J. Hughes, Ph.D.
Public Policy Studies Trinity College; Hartford, CT [3/25/04]
James R. Hughes, M.D., Ph.D.
ER Director of Meadows Regoinal Medical Center; Director of Medical Research & Development, Hilton Head Longevity Center, Savanah, GA [4/05/04]
Klaus W. B. Jaffé, Ph.D.
(University of Southampton, England) Full Professor, Biology Department, Universidad Simón Bolívar; Caracas, Venezuela [3/24/04]
Ravin Jain, M.D.
(Baylor) Diplomate of the American Board of Psychiatry and Neurology, Los Angeles, CA [3/31/04]
Subhash C. Kak, Ph.D.
Department of Electrical & Computer Engineering, Louisiana State University, Baton Rouge, LA [3/24/04]
Professor Bart Kosko, Ph.D.
Electrical Engineering Department; University of Southern California [3/19/04]
James B. Lewis, Ph.D.
(Chemistry, Harvard) Senior Research Investigator (retired); Bristol-Myers Squibb Pharmaceutical Research Institute; Seattle, WA [3/19/04]
Marc S. Lewis, Ph.D.
Ph.D. from the University of Cincinnati in Clinical Psychology. Associate Professor at the University of Texas at Austin of Clinical Psychology. [6/12/05]
Brad F. Mellon, STM, Ph.D.
Chair
20

Tom R,

09/04/2008 11:30:12
Ralph C. Merkle, Ph.D.
Distinguished Professor of Computing; Georgia Tech College of Computing; Director, GTISC (GA Tech Information Security Center); VP, Technology Assessment, Foresight Institute [3/19/04]
Marvin Minsky, Ph.D.
(Mathematics, Harvard & Princeton) MIT Media Lab and MIT AI Lab; Toshiba Professor of Media Arts and Sciences; Professor of E.E. and C.S., M.I.T [3/19/04]
John Warwick Montgomery, Ph.D.
(Chicago) D.Théol. (Strasbourg), LL.D. (Cardiff) Professor Emeritus of Law and Humanities, University of Luton, England [3/28/04]
Max More, Ph.D.
Chairman, Extropy Institute, Austin, TX [3/31/04]
Steve Omohundro, Ph.D.
(Physics, University of California at Berkeley) Computer science professor at the University of Illinois at Champaign/Urbana [6/08/04]
Mike O'Neal, Ph.D.
(Computer Science) Assoc. Professor and Computer Science Program Chair; Louisiana Tech Univ.; Ruston, LA [3/19/04]
Yuri Pichugin, Ph.D.
Former Senior Researcher, Institute for Problems of Cryobiology and Cryomedicine; Kharkov, Ukraine [3/19/04]
Peter H. Proctor, M.D., Ph.D.
Independent Physician & Pharmacologist; Houston, Texas [5/02/04]
Martine Rothblatt, Ph.D., J.D., M.B.A.
Responsible for launching several satellite communications companies including Sirius and WorldSpace. Founder and CEO of United Therapeutics. [5/02/04]
Klaus H. Sames, M.D.
University Medical Center Hamburg-Eppendorf, Center of Experimental Medicine (CEM) Institute of Anatomy II: Experimental Morphology; Hamburg, Germany [3/25/04]
Anders Sandberg, Ph.D.
(Computational Neuroscience) Royal Institute of Technology, Stockholm University; Stockholm, Sweden [3/19/04]
Sergey V. Sheleg, M.D., Ph.D.
Senior Research Scientist, Alcor Life Extension Founcation; Scottsdale, AZ [8/11/05]
Stanley Shostak, Ph.D.
Associate Professor of Biological Sciences; University of Pittsburgh; Pittsburgh, PA [3/19/04]
Rafal Smigrodzki, M.D., Ph.D.
Chief Clinical Officer, Gencia Company; Charlottesville
21

Tom R,

09/04/2008 11:31:37
Gregory Stock, Ph.D.
Director, Program on Medicine, Technology, and Society UCLA School of Public Health; Los Angeles, CA [3/24/04]
Charles Tandy, Ph.D.
Associate Professor of Humanities and Director Center for Interdisciplinary Philosophic Studies Fooyin University (Kaohsiung, Taiwan) [5/25/05]
Peter Toma, Ph.D.
President, Cosmolingua, Inc. Sioux Falls, South Dakota. Inventor and Founder of SYSTRAN. Director of International Relations, Alcor Life Extension Foundation. Residences in Argentina, Germany, New Zealand, Switzerland and USA [5/24/05]
Mark A. Voelker, Ph.D.
(Optical Sciences, U. Arizona) Director of Bioengineering; BioTime, Inc.; Berkeley, CA [3/19/04]
Roy L. Walford, M.D.
Professor of Pathology, emeritus; UCLA School of Medicine; Los Angeles, CA [3/19/04]
Mark Walker, Ph.D.
Research Associate, Philosophy; Trinity College; University of Toronto (Canada) [3/19/04]
Michael D. West, Ph.D.
President, Chairman & Chief Executive Office; Advanced Cell Technology, Inc.; Worcester, MA [3/19/04]
Ronald F. White, Ph.D.
Professor of Philosophy; College of Mount St. Joseph; Cincinnati, OH [3/19/04]
James Wilsdon, Ph.D.
(Oxford University) Head of Strategy for Demos, an independent think-tank; London, England [5/04/04]
Brian Wowk, Ph.D.
Senior Scientist 21st Century Medicine, Inc.; Rancho Cucamonga, CA [3/19/04]
Selected Journal Articles Supporting Cryonics:

First paper showing recovery of brain electrical activity after freezing to -20°C. Suda I, Kito K, Adachi C, in: Nature (1966, vol. 212), "Viability of long term frozen cat brain in vitro", pg. 268-270.


First paper to propose cryonics by neuropreservation: Martin G, in: Perspectives in Biology and Medicine (1971, vol. 14), “Brief proposal on immortality: an interim solution”, pg. 339.

First paper showing recovery of a mammalian organ after cooling to -196°C (liquid nitrogen temperature) and subsequent transplantation: Hamilton R, Holst HI, Lehr HB, in: Journal of Sur
22

Tom R,

09/04/2008 11:33:17
Lastly :-)

First paper showing partial recovery of brain electrical activity after 7 years of frozen storage: Suda I, Kito K, Adachi C, in: Brain Research (1974, vol. 70), “Bioelectric discharges of isolated cat brain after revival from years of frozen storage", pg. 527-531.


First paper suggesting that nanotechnology could reverse freezing injury: Drexler KE, in: Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences (1981, vol. 78), "Molecular engineering: An approach to the development of general capabilities for molecular manipulation", pg. 5275-5278.


First paper showing that large organs can be cryopreserved without structural damage from ice: Fahy GM, MacFarlane DR, Angell CA, Meryman HT, in: Cryobiology (1984, vol. 21), "Vitrification as an approach to cryopreservation", pg. 407-426.


First paper showing that dogs can be recovered after three hours of total circulatory arrest (“clinical death”) at 0°C (32°F). This supports the reversibility of the hypothermic phase of cryonics: Haneda K, Thomas R, Sands MP, Breazeale DG, Dillard DH, in: Cryobiology (1986, vol. 23), "Whole body protection during three hours of total circulatory arrest: an experimental study", pg. 483-494.


First detailed discussion of the application of nanotechnology to reverse human cryopreservation: Merkle RC, in: Medical Hypotheses (1992, vol. 39), "The technical feasibility of cryonics", pg. 6-16.


First successful application of vitrification to a relatively large tissue of medical interest: Song YC, Khirabadi BS, Lightfoot F, Brockbank KG, Taylor MJ, in: Nature Biotechnology (2000, vol. 18), "Vitreous cryopreservation maintains the function of vascular grafts", pg. 296-299.


First report of the consistent survival of transplanted kidneys after cooling to and rewarming from -45°C: Fahy GM, Wowk B, Wu J, Phan J, Rasch C, Chang A, Zendejas E, in: Cryobiology (2004 vol. 48), "Cryopreservation of organs by vitrification: perspectives and recent advances", pg. 157-78.

23

NightRider007,

UK 09/04/2008 11:35:35
To everyone reading this article. Please be careful. Cryonics is a scam. The people involved are lunatics and cult members in the USA.

The company "Alcor" that was mentioned in the article has been under investigation for questionable actions. Some of the people posting positive comments on here about cryonics are members of the horrible cult. The article failed to state that cryonics is illegal in the UK.

Check out www.freeted.com for more information about Alcor's checkered past. It is quite an interesting website.
24

NightRider007,

UK 09/04/2008 11:50:38
Go to www.freeted.com

There is a large amount of information about this scam. It is believed that Alcor has been involved in murders. The authorities in the USA are investigating these crackers.

Some of the "doctors" referenced in above comments have known affiliations with this cult. Be Careful
25

P I Staker,

09/04/2008 11:57:31
Aye, be very wary of this lot - see how GalacticCannibal, Murrieta; . CA.....a place in the Sun has turned oot!!
26

Angus Ogg,

09/04/2008 12:11:06
#2

We already have it.

Reoigh Brain number 8.

Well more like Amadan Brain of Beag Brain.

27

Tom R,

09/04/2008 12:11:21
#23 Nightrider007

Cryonics is NOT illegal in the UK.

It is not a scam either-where is your proof of this?

I have read the www.freeted.com. You and others should be aware that the preservation of Ted Williams at Alcor was upheld by US courts. 2 of his 3 children supported his cryonic preservation. The courts ruled in their favour and against the (estranged) daughter who opposed the preservation.

28

Am Balach,

Isle of Skye 09/04/2008 12:36:41
Mr MacLennan has his head firmly screwed on his shoulders.
29

Partan,

Haein doots 09/04/2008 14:03:33
I saw that documentary series "Futurama" and, believe me, the future is overrated.
30

NightRider007,

UK 09/04/2008 14:03:47
TomR,

You obviously have a reading comprehension problem. Below is the link to UK law regarding cryonics. I know this simply because I participated in writing this law. You are in over your head TomR.

http://www.leg.bc.ca/37th5th/1st_read/gov03-1.htm#section014

Regarding the Ted Williams affair, I suggest you do your research.
31

Partan,

Fife 09/04/2008 14:09:30
Anybody heard from I.C.Wiener the day?
32

NightRider007,

UK 09/04/2008 14:14:46
TomR,

The website www.freeted.com is a product of an ex-employee of Alcor. In fact I believe he was an executive in the company. I would consider him an authority on the events that played out at Alcor. I am sure he has seen the evidence and knows what he is talking about. What is your background TomR. Are you part of the “Alcorian” cult?

By the way, the Ted Williams issue was NOT held in a US court. It was mediated by a local authority.
33

Dreech,

09/04/2008 14:24:00
http://www.leg.bc.ca/37th5th/1st_read/gov03-1.htm#section014

NightRider007, the Legislative Assembly of British Columbia? Before spewing out wayward comments on the ethics of cryonics I suggest you take a geography lesson.
34

NightRider007,

UK 09/04/2008 14:41:26
Dreech,

I am not sure what cryonics has to do with geography, however I will give you that one. My background is in biochemistry. In short, I posted the wrong link. I will find the appropriate link and post it here soon.

Just so you know and in case you are interested. The molecular structure of the solutions that Alcor and other cryonics firm are using for their so called “vitrification” process is way too large. The solution is too large and cannot cross the Blood Brain Barrier (BBB), thru making cerebral profusion (with the solution) impossible. I do not have the time to go into a full biochemistry lecture on this site, however I suggest (if you are interested) to do further research. How is that for “spewing out wayward comments” on cryonics Dreech?

35

TheSmith,

in the lab 09/04/2008 15:11:20
This is too weird. Was just reading how out of touch Kenney Ritchie feels after being in jail, in another country, for years. Imagine that times 1 million, MacLennan wakes up all disoriented to find he knows no-one and nothing relevant to the present, and all in a fat American's body...
The person who sold this idea to him must be really convincing. Maybe vorderman could take a few tips for her loan adverts.
36

Tom R,

09/04/2008 15:22:57
#27etc. Nightrider007

It is clear that the leaving of Ted Williams with Alcor was determined by a judge. I quote

"The legal battle to remove Ted Williams's body and head from a deep freeze ended Tuesday when his elder daughter and her husband were enjoined by a Florida judge from further objections or legal actions related to recovering and cremating her father's remains."

I would be very interested to see the supposed link that shows that the UK has banned cryonics-I am sure it does not exist :-)

I much prefer Ray Kurzweil or K Eric Drexler as scientific guides rather than to follow your non-arguments
37

Marcus Fenix,

09/04/2008 15:32:43
I was cryonically preserved once. It chaffed.
38

Calum Crubag,

Dùn Eideann 09/04/2008 15:35:05
Dith mhor na ceille!
39

Grim Reaper,

09/04/2008 16:15:55
Pickled people, yummy!
40

BK,

Cyberspace 09/04/2008 23:19:12
Who mentioned brass monkeys?
41

scully,

Colchester 12/04/2008 12:58:10


At the moment of death your soul leaves its vessel and goes to its destination.. Up or Doon. So why waste your Money

The only one that can give you immortality is God.To go on for all eternity
42

Voldemort,

Edinburgh 25/05/2008 08:43:01
This is the greatest each way bet there is .... whilst the other suckers rot or burn you freeze ! - If they can revive you then so be it if they can't what is the difference ?!

On thing is for sure if they cremate you or you are pt in a box to rot - they are never going to be able to help you.

The religious hocus pocus on this subject is incredible - Based of the FACT there is no evidence of an afterlife and the evidence for the existence of God is similar to the evidence favouring the existence of Fairies or Santa Claus I see absolutely no reason to mock this technique.

People laughed at the notion of space travel and organ transplants 100 years ago and now they are routine. It is interesting to see the same ignorance and fear spewed out by humankind particularly when the skeptics, historically, always look like idiots in the end.
43

Voldemort,

Edinburgh 25/05/2008 08:55:35
41 - You are entitled to this romantic notion ... I am interested that you speak as if what you say is fact though given that this rose tinted take on death is a). Man-made and b). God is a man-made belief.

Maybe there is a supreme entity but I doubt very much if it will conform to a speculative religious stereotype essentially made up by paranoid, power hungry men in funny outfits !!

44

Voldemort,

Edinburgh 25/05/2008 09:09:16
23 - What utter tosh ! 'Free ted williams' - how are you freeing somebody when you take them out of suspension and burn them ?! - how is he not free now ?

Cryonics is not Illegal in the UK and if it were it would just go to show what monkeys make the law and pander to small minded religious groups with 'ethical' concerns based entirely on their own view of an 'afterlife' that most probably does not exist !

I'd wager you are some religious crackpot --- go sell crazy somewhere else.

I hope TW will forgive you if he is ever revived for trying to destroy his CHOSEN chance at giving life another swing ! You and your website chums should be ashamed - it is plain evil and has everything to do with your agenda and nothing to do with TW's agenda.

 

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