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Police chiefs urge review of gun law



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Published Date: 20 January 2008
SCOTLAND'S top police officers have demanded an urgent review of gun law, claiming it is outdated and in need of radical overhaul.
It is the first time the Association of Chief Police Officers in Scotland (ACPOS) has come out and made such a strong comment on the country's firearms legislation.

And last night, a former member of the group said he would not be surprised if som
e senior officers even backed calls for Holyrood to have gun law devolved from Whitehall.

News of ACPOS's call came days after Justice Secretary Kenny MacAskill announced plans for a "firearms summit" with Home Secretary Jacqui Smith. She has opposed devolving weapons legislation to Scotland but the fact such a move has taken place in Northern Ireland has simply increased the pressure upon her.

Yesterday, an ACPOS spokesman said: "A fundamental review of firearms legislation is overdue, making the control of firearms simpler to understand and administer from a public and regulating body perspective. The overarching principle should be the enhancement of public safety whilst ensuring that responsible and legitimate ownership and use of firearms is catered for."

Last night, MacAskill said: "The existing firearms regime doesn't serve the interests of public safety as it should.

"The law needs to be understandable to all – to the layman as much as to the expert.

"The police are calling for reform because the system they must enforce is embedded in an Act that is 40 years old and amended so often over that time.

"If they find it difficult to enforce, we must listen to that call. It's time for a consolidated Act making the law clear to one and all, as well as addressing loopholes and clear gaps."

He said a total ban on the sale of air weapons was a vital part of his plans for Scotland's future safety. "It is four years since the Home Office recognised the need for a comprehensive review and launched a public consultation – but the lack of progress since then is not acceptable," he said.

As well as ACPOS, the Scottish Police Federation (SPF) has also backed moves to re-examine gun laws. Norrie Flowers, chairman of the SPF, said: "There should be a new firearms act as the protection of the public is the main issue.

"I cannot see any legitimate reason why anyone should have a gun, apart from a farmer or a sportsman especially, in a rural area. And if anyone is found in the street with a gun, then they should be locked up and the key thrown away."

It is believed new faces in the ACPOS set-up, such as Strathclyde Police's recently appointed chief constable Stephen House, are pushing for changes in Scotland's gun law.

House had wide experience of firearms issues during his time with the Metropolitan Police, where he was heavily involved in Operation Trident, the force's ongoing crackdown against "black-on-black" gun crime.

One former ACPOS insider said he believed some members would back calls for gun law to be devolved from London, especially as that would see responsibility for air weapons handed over to Holyrood.

He said: "Air guns are a much bigger issue here than south of the border. But ACPOS will not want to get involved in a political argument."



The full article contains 552 words and appears in Scotland On Sunday newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 19 January 2008 8:03 PM
  • Source: Scotland On Sunday
  • Location: Scotland
  • Related Topics: Gun crime
 
1

Ross Fyffe,

Scotland 20/01/2008 02:04:03
The police need to know that it is not legal guns that are the problem it is illegal guns,
2

tomi,

20/01/2008 05:39:56
With reference to comment #1, what they have done is make all firearms illegal for common people. Now the authorities want to include airguns too.

But this is only shifting the blame for the improper use of a gun, air gun or any other object, from the person using it to the object itself.
Virtually anything can be used as a weapon to harm someone else; but they remain only things, incapable of taking action on its own.

A loaded gun lying in a drawer will always remain just that, a loaded gun ln lying in a drawer. It will never shoot anyone, unless some person picks it up, holds it correctly, has a finger on the trigger, points it at someone and pulls the trigger.

Stop blaming inanimate objects, and hold people accountable for their actions!!!

Illegality, in itself, means nothing as regards to right and wrong. There are many examples, one being the slave trade. Something becomes illegal when a law is passed against it, the real test is whether the law is right or wrong.

Suppose, for example, that due to concern about rising CO2 levels and its effect on "global warming/climate change" it was realised that the major contributor was the amount of CO2 exhaled by people. Of course a law could be passed against it and thus saving the planet.
But would such a law be right? People would still insist in doing it.

People will only want to obey laws that they themselves think is reasonable.
3

an interested party,

20/01/2008 08:39:44
does anyone have a referance to the last time some person went into a shop and bought a gun and then in short order went and committed a crime with it ?
4

an interested party,

20/01/2008 08:40:36
in Scotland that is not some far flung ex colony
5

Guga II,

Rockall 20/01/2008 11:30:14
Kenny MacAskill is not fit for purpose. If there is a problem with misuse of air-guns, then all that needs to be done is to ensure that existing legislation is enforced.
6

overton,

balmedie 20/01/2008 12:55:53
Norrie Flowers wants to direct his energy towards the real problem which is the inability of the Police Force and both Governments to control the flow of illegal weapons into this country.
Handguns have been banned in UK since Dunblane and Firearm and Shotgun ownership is now very rigidly controlled with all owners subjected to both Police Checks and a requirement to securely store weaponry.
This article is another example of the complete ignorance of the press and of the diversionary approach of the SPF.
Let's see the facts on the table for once i.e. In the past 5 years how many crimes have been created by LEGALLY held weapons and how many have been carried out by ILLEGALLY held weapons?
Those answers should be apparent in any article on this subject.
Airguns? Only some are regarded as firearms and those require the pssession of a Firearms Certificate to possess.
7

Captain Fantastic,

Anywhere but here 20/01/2008 20:41:20
MacAskill should be fired. He hasn't got a clue (see also his plans to punish moderate and occasional drinkers just because a minority can't hold their booze). These tired old policies of 'ban' and 'restrict' are proven failures. They only affect those who are prepared to be bound by the rules and, by definition, criminals don't obey laws. Laws should be designed to punish the transgressor while leaving the law abiding in peace, but politicians prefer to punish everyone because that's easy. What a total w****r this bloke is.
8

I'mallymax,

Orwellian nightmare; coppers as the elites/fine. 20/01/2008 21:11:15
"SCOTLAND'S top police officers have demanded an urgent review of gun law"

Seems these totlaitarians think they can 'demand' anything?

Norrie Flowers, chairman of the SPF, said: "I cannot see any legitimate reason why anyone should have a gun, apart from a farmer or a sportsman especially ... And if anyone is found in the street with a gun, then they should be locked up and the key thrown away."

Shows the mindset of these fascists.
9

Factually yours,

Scotland 20/01/2008 22:07:32
8 - "SCOTLAND'S top police officers have demanded an urgent review of gun law.
Norrie Flowers, chairman of the SPF ...."

Scotland's top Police Officers = ACPOS (Association of Chief Police Officers, Scotland)
SPF = Scottish Police Federation, which represents 'rank and file' Police Officers aka the federated ranks ie PC to Chief Inspector inclusive.
(ASPS, Association of Scottish Police Superintendents, represents those inbetween.

"Shows the mindset of these fascists."

No, but perhaps it shows the atupidity of No 8.

Perhaps some knowledge of a subject should be a pre-requisite of posting a comment ....

10

Factually yours,

Scotland 20/01/2008 22:08:54
8 - "SCOTLAND'S top police officers have demanded an urgent review of gun law.
Norrie Flowers, chairman of the SPF ...."

Scotland's top Police Officers = ACPOS (Association of Chief Police Officers, Scotland)
SPF = Scottish Police Federation, which represents 'rank and file' Police Officers aka the federated ranks ie PC to Chief Inspector inclusive.
(ASPS, Association of Scottish Police Superintendents, represents those inbetween).

"Shows the mindset of these fascists."

No, but perhaps it shows the stupidity of No 8.

Perhaps some knowledge of a subject should be a pre-requisite of posting a comment ....
11

John Blackley,

Florida 20/01/2008 23:42:34
Isn't there already a law againast gun ownership in Scotland (with some pretty narrow exceptions)?

If there is and if gun crime is increasing, isn't the failure on the part of the law-enforcement community?
12

an interested party,

20/01/2008 23:58:22
regardless of the annacronyms of the various federations
it still remains a crime to do violence to another with out due cause, we will end up banning baseball bats or pick helves or snookers que's if we forget that it is people and their predisposition to violence that is the root of the problem.

no's 9,10 seems a bit nit picky to argue over how one describes needless fascism. at least it doesn't make you look daft thought, which is a relief
13

an interested party,

20/01/2008 23:58:36
oh wait
14

The Bish,

Glasgow 20/01/2008 23:58:49
Norrie Flowers, chairman of the SPF, said: "There should be a new firearms act as the protection of the public is the main issue...

.....if anyone is found in the street with a gun, then they should be locked up and the key thrown away."

I would have thought that the Chairman of the Scottish Police Federation should be aware that the law as it stands at present does provide the facility to lock up such offenders.

Unfortunately the courts seem sadly reluctant to use these powers.

Only recently a 17 year old who shot a young boy in the forehead with an air pistol and followed this up by shooting another victim in the eyelid only 45 minutes later, was sentenced to 250 hours community service.

Why such leniency, when I believe the maximum sentence for the offences is 14 years?

Mr Flowers also stated:
"I cannot see any legitimate reason why anyone should have a gun, apart from a farmer or a sportsman especially, in a rural area.

Strange that he should ask the question and answer it himself in the same sentence!

Most pest control (which is a legal obligation of a landowner)is carried out on their behalf by shooting enthusiasts, with the air rifle being the safest and most humane method of culling rabbits and especially rats in the vicinity of outbuildings and in proximity to livestock where poisons are not an option.
15

Jeeemy,

21/01/2008 10:10:27
Implementation of the current laws regarding firearms would and should a prerequisite of all police officers.
The current training regime within the Scottish police is such that all senior offices will in future have to come from England; because the training in those qualifications required, are only available in England.
As for training and knowledge regarding firearms this is nonexistent within the schedule at the Scottish Police College, of the current serving officers only the armed response units have any idea where the pointy bit is never mind the bangy bit are.
“ I would have thought that the Chairman of the Scottish Police Federation should be aware that the law as it stands at present does provide the facility to lock up such offenders.”
I do have knowledge of firearms and can talk from experience of over 30years.

16

Allan(handofgod137),

21/01/2008 12:29:41
A good start would be to take firearms licencing out of the hands of the police altogether, as both Hungerford and Dunblane came about due to police failures. Also, given police failures to respond to 999 calls in many areas concerned pa=rties should go here http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/handgun/ and sign up. I also believe that anyone of good standing should be able to get a firearms licence for home defense, and the law should be ammended to give them every legal protection should they have to use it.
17

Rob J,

22/01/2008 11:24:01
Could anyone who thinks that the current laws are strict enough already, and that we just need to enforce them better (IE Policing to catch the offenders and sentencing commensurate with the offence) please look at this?

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/NoNewAirgunLaw/

I'm sick to death of these foolish politicians who like to talk up bans and restrictions, and the media which give them the platform to expound these views. We need to have a good look at ourselves as a society and ask why we have so many thugs that are happy to commit violent crime at the slightest excuse, and make real people's lives miserable! There have been many cases in the news recently where good people have been kicked and punched to death, why are these fools talking as if airguns are a serious problem when we have thugs like these roaming the streets? To the politicians, I say: Stop using the non-existant 'airguns' issue as a political football in your fight with Westminster, solve the thug problem, then see if airguns need further legislation. Get you priotities right! Thugs hit more people with golf clubs than with airguns, and the consequences are much more severe, but sadly in this day and age, beatings with blunt objects are so common that they're just not newsworthy!


18

Captain Fantastic,

Anywhere but here 22/01/2008 13:06:15
Well said #16 & #17. But we shooters are seen as dispensible because of general public ignorance of the firearms' laws. Of course, like motorists, it is so much easier for politicians to criminalise the law-abiding to be 'seen to be doing something'. How many people are aware that since October 2007, sellers of airguns have to be registered as Firearms' Dealers with the police, that mail order sales are banned, all transactions must be made face to face and purchasers registered? Very few I would bet as the Home Office has made no serious effort to advertise it (so what's new). I despise opportunist politicians and have no faith in the police after the Hungerford and Dunblane debacles - brought about by their failure to uphold the law. A pox on both their houses.
19

s400flyswat,

Scotland 22/01/2008 19:40:56
Well said Cpt. Fantastic, the VCR Act has been operating for less than four months, there are NO statistics on its impact on airgun related offences in Scotland and yet the SNP want further legislation.
I'm willing to bet that VCR has no impact on airgun crime because it only affects law-abiding airgunners and not the cretins who go down to a certain shop in Argyle Street in Glasgow and buy an air rifle then pass it round all their mates 'having a laugh' breaking innumerable laws in the process but escaping censure until they kill someone. Which is just what would happen with a ban.
I almost wish I lived in a marginal seat so I can give any doorknocking SNP drone a right good roasting over this.
20

PALLADIN,

Scotland 24/01/2008 23:35:54
ERRR, just a wee question! Can anyone exactly explain exactly WHY McAskill (a man who would probably not get a firearm certificate) wanted to meet with an unfit mother, a drug dealer and someone with a firearm conviction to discuss his plans???? Is McAskill really incompetent or just blind to the fact that BANS DO NOT WORK - EVER!!

As for oor Norrie Flowers, I can't see why anyone would want to play golf but I bet he does, and golf clubs are lethal weapons.Should we BAN everything?? The Police should UPHOLD the law for a change and stop trying to MAKE IT!

When our police target CRIMINALS and not the law abiding then just maybe I will care what Norrie thinks.
21

VC Horseguy,

USA 16/02/2008 14:50:13
The monarchies made it illegal for you to have swords so you couldn't fight, the parliment made it illegal to have firearms so you couldn't fight, they now charge you with defending yourself against burglars, they want to ban air guns, and blunt all knife tips. At what point do they stop or do you stand up for yourselves? Before long you'll be wearing mittens locked around your wrist so you can't grap anything that might be considered a weapon. Christ we have some problems here in the US, but when you take all the media hype and hysteria out of the equation we have a much safer society. Austrailia, a 1000% increase in gun crimes during the first year gun ownership was made illegal. When you are completely disarmed you will have no means of defending your family when the government dicides it doesn't need warrants anymore (over simplification for brevity). Please tell me my ancestors have not lost their pride and ability to defend themselves, and please tell me you don't want nanny government. Or did all the fighting scots emmigrate.

 

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