Help Sitemap Home Skip Navigation Contact Us Disability Statement

 
 
Saturday, 19th July 2008

Free Monet Print with The Scotsman

Premium Article !

Your account has been frozen. For your available options click the below button.

Options

Premium Article !

To read this article in full you must have registered and have a Premium Content Subscription with the The Scotsman site.

Subscribe

Registered Article !

To read this article in full you must be registered with the site.

One day and two leaders worlds apart



Click on thumbnail to view image
Click on thumbnail to view image
Click on thumbnail to view image
Click on thumbnail to view image
Click on thumbnail to view image

Published Date: 15 May 2008
BATTERED and bruised by the 10p tax-band battle, woeful poll ratings and questions about his personality, Gordon Brown gave no obvious sign of pleasure as he rose to tell the Commons about the government's plans for the future.
Here was the opportunity, in his draft Queen's Speech, to give people a compelling reason to re-elect a Labour government that looks increasingly past its sell-by date.

But Mr Brown, never the showman, was unable to disguise the lack of substance
in what he was announcing.

There was no "big idea", or even many new ones. Only two initiatives – on the government buying up unoccupied new homes, and providing savings accounts for people on low incomes – were fresh.

So, he put his head down and rattled through his speech.

Nobody was fooled.

"Today's Queen's Speech is just another attempt to save the Prime Minister's skin," sneered Tory leader David Cameron. "This has nothing to do with the long-term needs of the country and everything to do with the short-term survival of the Prime Minister."

Mr Brown was fulfilling his promise, made when he entered No 10 last June, to consult the public on proposals for the annual Queen's Speech prior to it being formally unveiled in November. This was a Queen's Speech without the pomp and circumstance – without the Queen.

Mr Brown outlined 18 bills, 14 of which will apply in whole or in part to Scotland, designed to deliver "a more prosperous Britain and a fairer Britain".

There was so much repair work to do, he contended, it was almost as if Labour had spent the past 11 years in opposition.

What he was really doing, of course, was attempting to dig himself, and his government, out of a massive hole. The aim was to offer the British people "substance" over the "salesmen" of the Tory party. But he could have done with a bit of the salesman's chat.

The immediate priority was "to help family finances". Eight million people will become eligible for a new savings scheme that will match each £1 saved with a government "contribution".

Workers will be given the right to request time off to attend a training course, and there will be extra pressure placed on the workshy. "Those that can work, should work," Mr Brown declared.

Salmond's statement underlines disarray of opposition, writes DAVID MADDOX

ALEX Salmond rose to his feet yesterday with the air of man who knows he is at the height of his political powers while the opposition flounders.

His statement to MSPs on Scotland's future was largely a piece of self-congratulation on the council-tax freeze, and the abolition of bridge tolls and the graduate endowment.

It was delivered to appreciative and regular applause from Nationalist MSPs and somewhat impotent howls of derision from Labour.

There were three announcements – an annual £2 million Saltire Prize to award innovation, making Stirling University a university of sporting excellence (an idea borrowed from Labour) and publishing all government documents before they are requested under Freedom of Information laws.

The disarray within Scottish Labour was summed up in the way most of the party's MSPs rushed in to the chamber late, after Mr Salmond had got to his feet.

Wendy Alexander, who has seen her party spend the past 11 days doing contortions on an independence referendum, started the session shrunk back in her chair, looking as though she hoped nobody would notice she was there.

Later, however, she tried to attack Mr Salmond's announcement, declaring: "This isn't just lightweight, it's fly-weight.

Not only is there is no early referendum bill, there is precious little else."

Referring to an editorial in The Scotsman, Mr Salmond replied: "One of (our] great national newspapers described Wendy Alexander as the Olga Korbut of Scottish politics, thanks to her political gymnastics. Labour in Scotland have more in common with Ronnie Corbett."

Annabel Goldie, the Tory leader, urged the SNP to reverse decisions on increasing home detention curfews, allowing the private sector into the NHS and opposing the mutualisation of Scottish Water.

Nicol Stephen, leader of the Lib Dems, took up what, until 11 days ago, was Labour's mantra on the SNP's "year of broken promises". "Students, housing, class sizes, school buildings. The list goes on," he said.

At the end of the proceedings, Labour's George Foulkes described Mr Salmond's statement as "an insult to parliament", in a point of order.

However, by that point, everyone was leaving.

A speech full of talk, but no action

IT WAS meant to provide focus to a directionless government and a compelling argument for a fourth term of power.

But the draft Queen's speech delivered yesterday by Gordon Brown, the Prime Minister, merely seemed to reinforce the perception that his administration has run out of ideas.

First came the insistence that, at a time of rising food and fuel bills, the tight finances of British families were the government's primary concern.

But there was nothing inside the 84-page "draft legislative programme" to reflect the concerns of the Bank of England governor that the UK economy was heading for recession.

To be fair, the previous day had been dominated by the repair job on the 10p tax fiasco and the handing of £120 to most UK taxpayers.

Yesterday's document was to be all about the "vision thing", but close reading revealed it to be a familiar New Labour rehash – nine of the 18 Bills had been published already, or were due for imminent release.

The idea of buying up unoccupied new houses was novel – but only £200 million is to be allocated. Based on the average UK house price, this may buy fewer than 1,000 properties.

Other bills appeared little more than padding. One referred to the United Nations adopting a red crystal symbol. Another required airports to draw up security plans – as if they have not already done so. So much for regaining the agenda.

ROSS LYDALL

BILLS IN DETAIL

EIGHT of the 18 bills announced by the UK government yesterday will apply in full in Scotland, and six others will have some effect.

The Banking Reform Bill, Saving Gateway Bill and Citizenship and Immigration Bill will be among those having the greatest impact north of the Border, according to the Scotland Office.

The banking bill will aim to prevent a repeat of the Northern Rock fiasco by allowing greater sharing of information on banks in difficulty, and improving the Bank of England's powers to intervene. There will also be enhanced protection for people holding Scottish banknotes should the issuing banks run into trouble.

The saving bill will establish a national saving scheme for people receiving benefits or tax credits – around eight million Britons. From 2010, the government will match their savings – possibly pound for pound – though the first withdrawals cannot be made until 2012.

The citizenship bill will expand the theme of "earned citizenship" for UK incomers and build upon the system, copied from Australia, of applicants having to amass points to enter the UK, based on their skills or ability to speak English.

A marine bill, first announced in March, will introduce a planning system for UK waters and create powers to designate marine conservation zones to prohibit activities damaging to the seas' natural heritage.

A welfare bill will aim to get people off benefits and into work.





The full article contains 1233 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 15 May 2008 12:15 AM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Labour Party
 
1

Angus Ogg,

14/05/2008 22:23:13

One of the few remaining good things that can be said about Gordon Brown is he has a very good work ethic. He works very hard. Unfortunately, Gordy equates lots of work = lots of new legislation

However, flooding the electorate with a multitude of new laws isn't the answer.

Gordy, sometimes, less is more.

How about this for an idea... start repealling laws and restoring liberty ?

Enough is enough.

Gordon, it really is time to think about your future.

Lord Brown of Ditheringham: it's just a matter of time.
2

James Annand,

15/05/2008 00:05:15
I'm not sure I like all this talk of Bendy doing U-turns on the independence issue. Surely the only description for her recent gaffe extravaganza is ‘making doughnuts”.
3

Padraig,

15/05/2008 00:10:14
Naw - there's no chance of Gordon surviving as PM.

The knives are out and he will lose his job so the best initiative he can make for the good of hard working families is to call a General Election before he is sacked.

That way, he is not the only Labour fag-end that will lose his job!

And perks.
4

Nikostratos,

15/05/2008 00:29:09
To compare the Role of the British Prime minister with a First Minster of devolved administration.

Is frankly pathetic Alex crows over £2 million and back at the real Parliament its £2.7 billion.
And alex is still relying on the newspapers to write his speeches..........
5

Jock 1O7,

15/05/2008 00:47:48
"Wendy Alexander ... the Olga Korbut of Scottish politics, thanks to her political gymnastics. Labour in Scotland have more in common with Ronnie Corbett."

This has to be one of the best lines I've seen from any politician for some time - well done to Eck's writers!

Mind you, Olga isn't 16 any more. Here's a current photo:
http://images.newsquest.co.uk/image.php?id=448678&type=full



6

Ard Righ,

The Rock Of Edinburgh 15/05/2008 01:11:00
"A marine bill, first announced in March, will introduce a planning system for UK waters and create powers to designate marine conservation zones to prohibit activities damaging to the seas' natural heritage."

Keep these parasites away from our seas.

If this is in your interest you must read the Post script to the third edition of The Isles of the West: A marine national park for the Hebrides.

7

Guga II,

Rockall 15/05/2008 07:13:18
Check out New Labour's latest party political broadcast:

http://www.jibjab.com/sendables/share_view/yofy8QtQoKNnINDxpPyse0i4
8

Evan Owen,

Snowdonia 15/05/2008 07:16:37
Gordy and liberty.

Oxy and moron
9

FedUpTaxPayer,

Edinburgh 15/05/2008 07:42:09
I agree with #1, Gordy seems to simply do lots of things, rather than doing things that will deliver.

Rather than a bunch of stupid new initiatives, could he not try and reduce some bureaucracy and waste - that would free up some money to either be spent elsewhere or returned as tax cuts.

Being sensible was never the Labour way though...
10

conservative,

Fife 15/05/2008 07:44:33
#8 you really meant 'moron and oxy' in that order of course.
11

capy,

embra 15/05/2008 08:12:50
just one simple question this dull may morning. george foulkes. what is he all about?
12

brownlie,

15/05/2008 08:29:40
Is this reporter hard of hearing? George did not call for a point of order. He suddenly woke up and shouted "A pint before last orders".
13

Toast,

15/05/2008 08:44:15
I am so sick of Brown twittering away and saying nothing,labour should admit its mistake and get a leader,the people of this country deserve so much better,at least Bliar was a leader not a weak,huffy fool devoid of any constructive ideas.
14

The Strategist,

15/05/2008 08:52:18
On Radio 4 this AM Brown said that he was a wonderful chap because he was taking difficult decisions in the country's interests such as building nuclear power stations.

So how would he categorise selling the nuclear reactor builder Westinghouse to the Japanese?

Was that in the country's interest? No - it was a blatant piece of industrial treachery.
15

Draco Was a Wimp,

Edinburgh 15/05/2008 09:25:13
The reek of desperation is palpable. Labour seems to think that enacting laws, that probably won't be enforced, is a sign of strong government. Why do we need a welfare act to get people back to work? What, it will no be illegal to be a lazy parasitic junkie with no skills? It doesn't need legislation to withdraw benefits from those who are making no effort whatsoever to find work or to make them do community work for their benefits.
16

puskas,

East kilbride 15/05/2008 09:35:54
The people of Fife have the answer to this charlatan who doesn't listen. He can certainly see the writing on the wall as he takes steps hoping to stay in power.

Attempting to buy votes by this so-called conviction politician will end in unglorious failure...

17

Brian Hill,

Edinburgh 15/05/2008 09:51:46
With Labour in complete disarray both sides of the border and the SNP completing a fantastic first year, this would be a good time for the SNP to begin the 'education process' required for the public to make an informed choice in the Independence Referendum.

The best way to learn about the benefits of Independence is not in a six week referendum campaign but a gentle trickle of information showing people what countries similar in size to Scotland have achieved for their people.

For example the economic growth of Ireland over the past 3 decades. How did they do it? How did they attract so much industry? Huge start up grants, 10 year tax free period followed by low corporate taxes. Even today companies are leaving England for Ireland.

Norway's burgeoning economy and £190 billion Oil fund since the 1970s Oil finds compared to Scotland's relatively poor economic record over the same period and ZERO Oil fund.

It takes time for people to assimilate information. Keep it flowing steadily, keep it simple and make it relevant to their lives.

The six week referendum campaign should be like polishing up your facts before the exams not trying to learn bucket loads of new information in a short time then being expected to make an informed decision at the end of it. People who are unsure will tend to vote for the status quo.
18

Brian Hill,

Edinburgh 15/05/2008 09:56:50
PS If the SNP doesn't already have a dedicated team to run this campaign they should be thinking about setting up one asap.

This is not a General Election we are asking people to vote in this is a once and for ever, major life altering decision. They will need to be prepared well in advance.
19

Simon M,

Edinburgh 15/05/2008 09:58:26
I watched Salmond's speech yesterday. The content was practically non-existent and the delivery smug and arrogant.

David Maddox needs to do better than recycle SNP press releases if he wants to be taken seriously as a journalist.
20

megz,

glasgow 15/05/2008 09:58:52
Why is labour's answer to everying lots of legislation? It seems they are just doing it for the sake of doing it.
21

Tellen1,

Edinburgh 15/05/2008 11:38:54
I think its pretty funny how Alex Salmond jumped on the Rangers bandwagon, saying he was going to the game and asking them to 'win it for Scotland'. Rangers fans are by far the most pro-unionist of all Scottish football fans and I'm sure they don't want Salmond's independence views associated with their team. From watching the scenes of the Rangers fans in Manchester yesterday (hundreds of Union Jack flags, not one Saltire) it is fairly obvious most of them don't want independence.
22

Allan(handofgod137),

15/05/2008 11:49:28
#21 But wee ecks a carpetbagger who failed as a labour mp and started his own party, he'd jump on any bandwagon if he thought it would increase his popularity.
23

Union is Best,

15/05/2008 11:51:47
21. Well said. A pointless contribution, well made! We Unionists can not only declare what everyone in Scotland wants from our general knowing, but can now also read political intentions from observation of televised crowd scenes at a football match!

What about this slur from the Scotsman article on the match:


"Before kick-off Gordon Brown, the Prime Minister, was booed when he appeared on screen to wish the team good luck. In contrast, Alex Salmond, the First Minister, received loud cheers when his message was broadcast."

24

Boggle fey the Bog,

15/05/2008 11:52:20
Another 'Welfare Bill' Jeez his last one hasn't even come into effect yet!!! The man is a P_rik!

Pray tell me Gordo, how are you going to get people off welfare and into work, by introducing a new 'Welfare Bill'?

Fact is he is attacking the disabled again!!!

Fact: there are 600,00 vacancies and 1.9 million unemployed (including those not claiming benefit).

Fact: fill the 600,000 vacancies Gordo, and you still have 1.3 million UNEMPLOYED.

Are people really that thick that they can't do their sums, or are do they just have the attitude 'Fcuk you Jack I'm alright' as long as they are 'earning'.

A sad, sad day for this once 'Great' nation!

22 Allan(heidofkeech137),15/05/2008 11:49:28

Wrong!!!
25

Union is Best,

15/05/2008 11:52:46
22. Complete non-sensical gibberish divorced from reality! Well done - we could use your skills to work on our referendum policy.
26

Tellen1,

Edinburgh 15/05/2008 12:03:03
#23

Okay 'Union is Best' its fairly obvious you are an SNP supporter masquarading as a fan of the union, for what obscure reason I have no idea.

Regarding reading political intentions from observations of televised crowd scenes - if a crowd of thousands of people has 100s of Union Jack flags and not one saltire I would think it is fairly safe just on that basis to suggest that the majority of that crowd are against independence, even laying aside the well known pro-unionist stance of Rangers fans.
27

kimba,

15/05/2008 12:04:24
19.That's because he IS smug and arrogent1
28

Saoghal Beag,

15/05/2008 12:07:24
does this then mean that the future of scotland hangs on the the whim of rangers supporters, that's more scary than the UBendy photoies this past couple of weeks.
29

Union is Best,

15/05/2008 12:15:37
26. Are club football matches tests of constitutional opinion? Are we Unionists looking ever more silly?


30

Evia,

15/05/2008 12:17:10
If people on benefits or family credits can afford to save, it means that they are receiving too much. He wants them to have more and the taxpayers are being fleeced again.
31

tassiestag,

rosebery 15/05/2008 12:26:49
#17 #18 right on brian
32

tassiestag,

rosebery 15/05/2008 12:27:20
#17 #18 right on brian
33

tassiestag,

rosebery 15/05/2008 12:27:51
#17 #18 right on brian
34

Peter,

Labpoor=Union=disaster for Scotland 15/05/2008 12:27:58
Union is Best; some of us regular pro independence bloggers get that Unionists like you have little if any positive arguments for the Union apart from its done us for 300 years.

The evidence of the lies that Westminster have spun for all this period are coming to light and the whole Unionist pack of cards is falling with every disclosure.

GERS says tax income from oil and gas from Scottish sector = £11 billion; Oil Industry spokesman says 2008-9 tax income will be in excess of £23 billion.

Independent review of Unionist policy on attendance allowance as part of the Scottish Block Grant says Gordon was wrong to remove it.

Unionists say an SNP Government in Scotland would mean a £5,000 increase in tax bill for all Scots - reality of LIT is the majority of Scots will be better off.

Unionists say 'bring it on' then scuttle back under their stones when it is clear the tactic is an own goal.

Unionists say the SNP will cause multinationals to leave Scotland, reality: Barclays have moved into Glasgow big style and the Scottish economy is out performing the rest of the UK for the first time in 300 years.

Unionist Government makes the poorest in Scotland poorer, has a fuel tax regime that penalises remote and rural communities, a car tax regime that penalises poorest families or those who actually need 4x4's for daily life in remote and rural areas.

A unionist government and parliament that is out of touch with 33% of its land mass and the people's needs, so much so that one of its representatives said, "They do not give a F*** about Scotland unless they are at risk of loosing a general election."

So what does this quality national daily do? It fills up its web site with pap about unlucky Rangers - they were stuffed - and other pap fluffy kitten stuff rather than deal with what is actually happening in Scotland .

Labpoor have lost the plot, falling to bits, borrowing money to try and cover their butts(which we, the tax payers, will pay for), lead
35

tassiestag,

rosebery 15/05/2008 12:28:29
#17 #18 right on brian
36

Tellen1,

Edinburgh 15/05/2008 12:28:57
#29

Of course football matches are not tests of constitutional opinion. If you refer to my original post I was merely suggesting that it is funny that Alex Salmond was jumping on the Rangers bandwagon and asking them to 'win it for Scotland' when they are without dispute a pro-unionist club. Like all politicians do (including Gordon Brown on the very same issue) Salmond saw an opportunity for some publicity by associating himself with a Scottish team in a major European final, despite the fact that particular team have a very well know pro-unionist leaning.
37

Peter,

Labpoor=Union=disaster for Scotland 15/05/2008 12:31:37
(continued from previous post)

Labpoor have lost the plot, falling to bits, borrowing money to try and cover their butts(which we, the tax payers, will pay for), leaders in both parliaments are now a sad joke and clinging on to power by default.

So covering all this up, Union is Best, and preventing comment on the more asinine 'there is nothing really wrong with Labpoor and the Union' puff is good journalism, quality reporting and a service to democracy?

Now revisit your comments and justify them, Union is Best, with reasons in writing why the Union is worth the price Scotland pays for it - sentiment will not wash.
38

tassiestag,

rosebery 15/05/2008 12:31:53
sorry about the repeats
39

Union is Best,

15/05/2008 12:32:51
36. I agree - it is a disgrace for the FM to express good wishes for a Scottish team in the UEFA final.
40

Tellen1,

Edinburgh 15/05/2008 12:43:32
#39

And again you seem to either be wilfully or ignorantly failing to understand what I am saying. Of course it is understandable for the first minister to express his support for a Scottish team in the final, it is just ironic that the particular Scottish team he was supporting are extremely pro-unionist.
41

megz,

glasgow 15/05/2008 12:43:57
had AS not had good wishes for rangers people would have been bleating on because it is a pro-unionist club. And who ever said there were no saltires is completely wrong as i saw some.
42

Union is Best,

15/05/2008 12:47:39
40. Quite right. The FM should not deal with anyone or anything with Unionist inlcinations - he was not elected as FM of teh whole of Scotland after all.
43

Tellen1,

Edinburgh 15/05/2008 12:53:00
#42

Grow up. I am not suggesting that Alex Salmond should not deal with anyone who is unionist, or should not have given his best wishes to Rangers in the final I am merely suggesting the IRONY of the situation.
44

Maurice,

Fife 15/05/2008 13:00:43
It really doesnt matter what Gordy does or says. He is taking over a government and party that was truly hung by its previous leader. The lying and deceiptful Tony Bliar. The net result is massive national and internation mistrust of the labor party and worse, the credibility of Britain as a nation is shot. There will be no recovery from this and even though mr Broon didnt cause it, he will fall with it.
45

megz,

glasgow 15/05/2008 13:09:36
to be honest i don't think there is a single thing brown could do to turn things around. People just dont like him.
46

ZenBroon,

Glesca 15/05/2008 13:48:12
#36 "Regarding reading political intentions from observations of televised crowd scenes - if a crowd of thousands of people has 100s of Union Jack flags and not one saltire I would think it is fairly safe just on that basis to suggest that the majority of that crowd are against independence, even laying aside the well known pro-unionist stance of Rangers fans."

Personally I thought it was pretty funny to see hundreds of shaven-headed bears at the gemm fluttering their wee Union Jacks like giggly schoolgirls at the Last Night of the Proms. It may make nationalists boak in their stovies, but surely in Glasgow the Union flag is regarded much more an emblem of Rangers than a flag of the UK. Actually I saw lots of Satires displayed on Rangers fans and their cars heading south, but of course there would have been few for sale in England.
47

John Blackley,

Florida 15/05/2008 13:52:02
Reading the Prime Minister's "draft Queen's speech" reinforces my belief that lawmakers should be allowed to meet for only six months every-other year. This is a Queen's speech full of make-work and bereft of relevance.

For example, Mr. Brown's 'idea' of assisted savings - "a new savings scheme that will match each £1 saved with a government "contribution"." is typical socialist claptrap and doublespeak. The 'government' has no money to contribute to individuals' savings plans. The 'government', at the moment, is next-to-bankrupt and in any case never had any money of its own. What Mr. Brown means, of course, is that working people will give money to the poor, through their taxes and whether they like it or not.

Of course, that last sentence should have read "give even more money". And more. And more. And more.

Here's another piece of advice for the Prime Minister, offered - once again - at no cost. Prime Minister, simply tell all Westminster MP's to go home for the next 'X' years and do not reconvene parliament until the government can demonstrate that it has kept - oh, say - 25% of the promises it made ten years ago. Do that and you get a chance to salvage something of your reputation and the rest of us get a bit of peace.
48

brownlie,

15/05/2008 13:55:16
43 Tellen

I would suggest that you do not recognise irony when it is staring you in the face.
49

kimba,

15/05/2008 14:09:43
UNION IS BEST. Take yourself and your snide remarks and shove them so far up your a--e,you'll be singing the hallelujah chorus!
50

kimba,

15/05/2008 14:14:05
Oh,and for all those mindless yobs that tried to destroy manchester city centre last night,please try and remember you are Rangers supporters not celtic,or are you!
51

Peter,

Labpoor=Union=disaster for Scotland 15/05/2008 14:24:08
The EEN Editor thinks - How do we show what a mess Scotland would be with out the Union?

Answer; We put Rangers rioting fans as are first headline. That'll do it. Forgetting of course that the raison d'etre of Rangers FC from its Chairman down is support of the Union.

The real message is that Rangers are a good example of the emptiness of the Union that only the violence born of decades of frustration can express.
52

Richard Lionheart,

15/05/2008 14:56:26
#27. If Bendy Wendy is the best that Labour has in Scotland after 8 years in power here, and Nicole Stephen is the best the Lib Dems have. Does Alex Salmond not have a right to be smug and arrogant?
53

happy english,

London 15/05/2008 15:06:07
SCOTLAND HANG YOUR HEAD IN SHAME, AS JUST AS YOU GUESS THERE HAS BEEN A RANGERS SUPPORTER BLAMING THE POLICE, IT DID NOT LOOK THE POLICES FAULT TO ME THE POOR COPPER WHO FELL AND GOT A GOOD KICKING. MANCHESTER PEOPLE WELCOMED YOU AND LOOK WHAT HAPPENED, OK SO A TV SCREEN WENT DOWN BUT THAT DOES NOT DESERVE A RIOT. I KNOW MANY OF YOU WERE WELL BEHAVED BUT SADLY A FEW HUNDRED TARRED YOU WITH THE SAME BRUSH.
54

kimba,

15/05/2008 15:08:41
52.Absolutly not,he is a sh-t stirrer,if salmond wants scotland to be independent,why not vote for it now!
55

kimba,

15/05/2008 15:25:06
Will Alex Salmond apologise on behalf of Glasgow to the people of Manchester!
56

Rulesbutnotrulers,

Federation, not separation 15/05/2008 15:29:50
Those thugs in Blue strips were not Scots. They were, well, they were who ever it is that wants to get Scots a bad name, so they just couldn't have been Scots, could they? Only England has football hooligans. Everyone knows this for a fact.
57

megz,

glasgow 15/05/2008 15:39:11
I see gordon brown is worried that the riots by rangers fans may harm any bid for england to host the 2018 world cup.

#55 i think most people in scotland would want to apologise to manchester for the minority of thugs that have shamed us. I think that there is absolutely no excuse for that kind of behaviour. I was disgusted by the sheer amout of rubbish left also.
58

happy english,

London 15/05/2008 15:39:39
#56 Get some treatment you are highly disturbed. Go tell that to the Manchester lads, but then again I bet you have not the Guts to say that to them. Pathetic.
59

kimba,

15/05/2008 15:42:44
56.Please take your heid out of the sand,they were as scottish as best malt,whether they were Rangers supporters is a different matter.
60

happy english,

London 15/05/2008 15:47:04
#59 Kimba you are right were they Rangers supporters the thought had crossed my mind.
61

kimba,

15/05/2008 15:50:38
55.I just hope this does not have a "knock-on"effect,with mancunians disliking glaswegians.
62

westview,

Strathclyde 15/05/2008 16:39:48
The uncivilised behaviour of those football supporting thugs is what folk living in the Glasgow area have had to put up with for generations. It was always a nightmare when you left your work and a Rangers or Celtic match was just finnishing and the beasts were let out to terrorise the neighbourhood. Jumping on passing cars , brawling with anyone who did not wear their facist flag colours, urinating on the public who were trapped on the Underground train platforms when the doors of the trains opened. etc etc. The police seemed keen to just move them on perhaps not wanting to cause more out of control behavior by trying to arrest them. Do away with supporters in the football grounds . Make all the matches viewed by domestic pay TV only and have no big screens . This is not a Scottish / English problem it is a problem for the Football Companies who tolerate these hooligans.
63

happy english,

London 15/05/2008 16:56:12
#66 Totally agree, when England had hooligan trouble it was just the few but sadly every English supporter got tarred with the same brush. The English people will understand that.
64

Union is Best,

15/05/2008 17:01:11
48. Brownlie

help, I think we have got our Unionism in a fankle again (and I don't mean the usual quadruple U turn, pirouette and somersault ensemble). All up the thread there it has been pointed out these Rangers types are total Unionists, not a single Saltire etc - now it has been pointed out their thuggery has shamed Scotland. Is this an own goal?
65

Jimmy the Pie,

15/05/2008 17:03:02
#26 Tellen1,

With such razor sharp intellect should you not be going after Simon Pia's job???
66

Electric Hermit,

15/05/2008 17:38:05
#22 Allan(handofgod137), 15/05/2008 11:49:28
But wee ecks a carpetbagger who failed as a labour mp and started his own party, he'd jump on any bandwagon if he thought it would increase his popularity

------------

Alex Salmond was never a Labour MP.

The Scottish National Party existed long before Alex Salmond was born.

Hand of god?

Mind of mollusc!
67

Warden An' All, Reborn,

15/05/2008 17:40:52
On the subject of the 10p tax I feel sorry for the Prime Minister as the tax band had become very unfair in its application allowing households with wages totalling higher than some of those who don't qualify for the lower band. For this reason going down the root of targeted benefits those in real need.
68

,

15/05/2008 17:59:18
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
69

brownlie,

15/05/2008 18:03:28
68 Union is best

With Kimba and Rules letting off steam then own goals are, sadly, inevitable!!
70

Conan the Librarian™,

15/05/2008 19:44:44
69
Why stop there?Wendy's job will be open soon.
71

,

15/05/2008 20:15:22
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
72

,

15/05/2008 20:21:39
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
73

,

15/05/2008 20:28:47
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
74

acanthus,

15/05/2008 20:29:34
Ciderman:

You are an idiot and your first paragraph is a disgraceful thing to say.

Held to account for what? For wishing a Scottish team good luck?

If he didn't you would be carping that he didn't support them as they were all Unionists i suppose.

Why bother posting here if all you can do is to write this kind of rubbish?

I have yet to see a comment from you that is worth thinking about!
75

The Former Mr. Angry,

Perth 15/05/2008 20:32:51
18 Bills! Broon must feel that if he's looking busy things are just going fine. There would be really no need for a Banking Bill if the FSA just did its job. The Savings Gateway is just another social security benefit paid for by those who do pay tax as Brown cannot pay this himself. More b***y tax! The citizenship bill will only apply to those who arrive here legitimately and is just something that should have been demanded a long time ago. It is a positive move, but it would have been enhanced by a real crackdown on illegal immigrants entering the country and basically, well, being allowed to stay here in many hundreds of thousands with a token few exported to keep the headlines looking right. The workshy - again a good move but this looks like a policy lifted from the Daily Mail and not one he thought out himself in a joined-up way. One stolen from the Conservatives and likely to have been written down with gritted teeth as this is his natural constituency, so don't bother looking for any hard application!

Somehow I don't think this ramshackle "vision" will cut much ice with voters in Nantwich and Crewe, or anywhere else for that matter. Toast.
76

,

15/05/2008 20:36:12
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
77

,

15/05/2008 20:36:48
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
78

Union is Best,

15/05/2008 20:41:32
81. Stephen

sadly you are correct. But we Unionists must take our support from anywhere we can get it, so I say well done Cider for his clever and insightful posts above! Please do try to keep your responses to him short and using words of two syllables max, so he can read and reply at his best to you.

Ciderman is on late tonight as he had to sign the nonce jotter at the police station today.
79

,

15/05/2008 20:42:28
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
80

dude,

wishaw 15/05/2008 20:43:03
well said acanthus these people are as thick as the knuckle draggers last nite
81

Union is Best,

15/05/2008 20:43:29
77. Hey Cider, I was just pointing out that the Unionist poster at 26 and other posts said that all the Rangers types were totally pro-Union.
82

,

15/05/2008 20:47:40
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
83

,

15/05/2008 20:52:14
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
84

,

15/05/2008 20:52:25
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
85

Union is Best,

15/05/2008 20:52:27
86. Stephen

yes, it is a shame, but he is the only other person we could get to cover this shift, and I thought his "Alex Salmond inciting football hooliganism" approach, while a bit off the wall, if toned down, could have legs?

Cider often says that he hears the voice of Alex Salmond goading him to hang out a primary school gates.
86

Union is Best,

15/05/2008 20:55:28
88. Well, it may divert from Ciderman's cunning and innovative "Alex Salmond told them Rangers fans to eat Mancunian hamsters" line, but OK. Lets address Ciderman' "Little" problem. The 7 year old he brought to the office the other day was not in fact his "niece". Ciderman has, to date, 56 nieces. I think we should confront him. But how? He spits when he is angry and I am wearing calf-skin shoes that may pucker if drenched in Ciderman's hysterical dribble? Oh, what a quandary.
87

,

15/05/2008 20:56:21
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
88

dude,

wishaw 15/05/2008 20:56:31
most of the rangers supporters who are into the union are orange lodge members etc. ie. bigots...this does not mean they are all the same, i know a good few rangers supporters who would vote for independence.
89

,

15/05/2008 21:04:01
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
90

Union is Best,

15/05/2008 21:08:13
93. Stephen

You have me, and the staff here, somewhat worried. We had not thought Ciderman's "Little problem" could be so huge. But now that we ponder, he is given to frenzied bouts of binge onanism that can last for days on end, which he also attributes to a voice in his head which he describes as ' like Alex Salmond's' goading him.

Ciderman is very pale, and has spindly legs due to rickets - I am beginning to suspect that he lives in a cellar. He often comes to work with carrier bags full of small stuffed kiddies animals and sweeties.

What should we do?
91

,

15/05/2008 21:10:03
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
92

Union is Best,

15/05/2008 21:11:49
93. Stephen

here is a picture of Ciderman. Does he fit the profile?

http://brooklyngirl.com/temp/flasher.jpg
93

,

15/05/2008 21:11:53
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
94

Union is Best,

15/05/2008 21:17:12
97. While we ponder this new information about your "habits" Ciderman, we do ask you to "keep it to yourself" and to keep out of the Paisley branch of the Early Learning Centre. To think, all this time we thought you were trying to improve your word power and IQ there......
95

,

15/05/2008 21:17:29
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
96

,

15/05/2008 21:19:53
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
97

,

15/05/2008 21:21:14
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
98

Union is Best,

15/05/2008 21:22:51
99. re 100 - they aren't really - Ciderman just picked up his bag of sweeties, put on his stained mac and his treasured 'reactolite rapide' glasses and ran out the office when he read 99.
99

,

15/05/2008 21:26:18
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
100

,

15/05/2008 21:28:13
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
101

Union is Best,

15/05/2008 21:28:41
1003. Jeez, we thought Ciderman was a bit dodgy, but we had no idea. He is indeed a real sick puppy, and to think he has been plying his sickness on this forum.
102

Union is Best,

15/05/2008 21:30:24
104. Good lord. Ciderman is now electronically chanting "boys" on here. He is in clear breakdown, or this could be seen as a desperate cry for help.... or a desperate cry for boys.... I am not sure. He is clearly a very sick and very dangerous individual.
103

,

15/05/2008 21:30:39
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
104

,

15/05/2008 21:31:42
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
105

Union is Best,

15/05/2008 21:33:33
108. Clearly this sicko Ciderman/James is used to people making accussations about his sick behaviour. He seems to know alot about the law relating to monce behaviour. It is a disgrace he is allowed to come on here trying to groom young posters for his nefarious purposes.
106

Methalions,

15/05/2008 21:34:23
I've just come on to this thread. WTF is Ciderman being attacked? I don't recall seeing his post the other day.

I don't normally agree with Ciderman, but attacking a poster in this way is a bit off.

Begone.
107

Methalions,

15/05/2008 21:35:16
ps... apparently the police attacked innocent fans first.
108

,

15/05/2008 21:36:31
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
109

Union is Best,

15/05/2008 21:37:42
110. Begone. Ciderman is a dangerous deviant. Ciderman had my full support at #75 when he suggested Alex Salmond had called on Rangers fans to attack the police, but since then certain disturbing facts about him and his activities have come to light.