Help Sitemap Home Skip Navigation Contact Us Disability Statement


New Forth Road bridge plan needs emergency debate says Labour

Click on thumbnail to view image
Click on thumbnail to view image
Click on thumbnail to view image
Click on thumbnail to view image
Click on thumbnail to view image

Published Date: 06 January 2009
LABOUR today called for an emergency Holyrood debate after a funding plan for the new Forth Bridge was thrown into disarray.

Scottish ministers want the Treasury to bring forward money – due to the Holyrood administration over a number of years – to pay for the crossing, which is expected to cost between £1.7 billion and £2.34 billion.

But Chancellor Alistair Darling
ruled that out, prompting First Minister Alex Salmond to insist he will not "take no for an answer".

The Scottish Government said it is seeking talks with the Treasury in an attempt to resolve the row.

Mr Darling has already said the SNP administration "ought to have been aware" that the Treasury would not agree to its request for the cash advance.

Speaking at the weekend the Chancellor said: "That particular scheme, where basically they were asking to borrow money from budgets that had yet to be allocated over an extremely long period, that's something that we just don't do. I think they ought to have been aware of that."

Today Labour finance spokesman Andy Kerr said finance secretary John Swinney was "guilty of incompetence on a monumental scale".

Mr Kerr demanded: "He should come before Parliament and account for himself."

The Labour MSP went on: "The new Forth Bridge is Scotland's biggest construction project in a generation and the SNP are making a mess of it.

"For the Scottish Government to make such a major announcement with no funding agreed was outrageous."

Mr Kerr said ministers had repeatedly stated the Scottish Futures Trust – the SNP's alternative to PPP and PFI – will be used to pay for the new crossing.

But he said the plan was "not fit for purpose" and said the SNP should have "opened talks much sooner to put a credible alternative in place".

He continued: "Alex Salmond and John Swinney's approach to the new Forth crossing has been incompetent and irresponsible. We will not allow them to put grudge and grievance ahead of good government.

"Scots deserve a Government that will deliver results rather than excuses. The SNP are doing real damage to the economy by undermining important infrastructure projects and creating uncertainty for construction companies at the worst possible time."

Earlier transport minister Stewart Stevenson insisted that the new Forth road bridge will be built on time and on schedule, despite the funding row with the Treasury.

Mr Stevenson told BBC Radio Scotland: "The Forth road bridge will happen, absolutely. It will happen.

"Clearly it's a substantial project, we have managed to get the price down very substantially.

"That is a considerable assistance to us and, of course, it has to and will come in on time in 2016."

Mr Stevenson acknowledged other projects may be delayed the Treasury money is not brought forward.

"The squeeze that could be on our financing will delay, perhaps, some other projects but that's something for our discussions with the Treasury," he said.

"I am optimistic that sitting down round the table, talking through the issues, we will find ways of dealing with the financial commitments that we require to make over the next 20 years."




Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 06 January 2009 3:30 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Forth Bridges
 
1

John1988,

Lochgilphead 06/01/2009 12:45:37
it was laubour in London that denies scotland the money needed so i guess this must just be something that labour in scotland thought of to make themselves look good.

i got first comment :D
2

John1988,

Lochgilphead 06/01/2009 12:47:44
Damn I only got the second post.... awell (:

#1 I agree.
3

Ewan M,

06/01/2009 12:48:33
The Spook in Leith calling Kerr obese!! - I suppose Salmond has joined Scottish Slimmers?

People are not stupid blaming Westminster for everything is just not going to wash when are the SNP going to deal with their own problems? Oh that's right they can't because they're incompetent.
4

Ewan M,

06/01/2009 12:50:33
Spook in Leith - not like an SNP supporter to be narrow minded and hard done by is it?
5

HughB,

Edinburgh 06/01/2009 12:55:41
It's a bit rich of Labour to accuse others of incompetence considering that their original estimate for the Scottish Parliament was £40 million, and ended up 10 times that amount.

Scotland can't plan budgets and funding for anything, including projects like this, until we have control of our own finances, which includes control of our own natural resources and taxes.

What happens to Scotlands share of road tax? That's probably swallowed up by London as well.
6

Calum Crubag,

06/01/2009 13:04:54
Gordon Brown said yesterday that he was gonna boost the economy by spending millions on infrastucture and the like. Why isn't the new Forth Bridge part of his spending? Are jobs in Scotland not important?

Why not divert some of the bottomless pit of money that is Labour's warchest?

Less nuke submarines and aircraft carriers and more public services.
7

Anonym,

06/01/2009 13:14:08
A bit rich to throw accusations of incompetence at the SNP, when all the real fiscal power is controlled by LABOUR.

Scotland needs to take full fiscal autonomy before we can find out just who is competent and who is not.

Otherwise, all you have is speculation, assumption, mud slinging, hot air...

Now, who thinks the budget for ID cards would be money well spent? I mean apart from those with a vested interest in the scheme.
8

Ray 1,

Glasgow 06/01/2009 13:14:50
LABOUR today called for an emergency Holyrood debate after a funding plan for the new Forth Bridge was thrown into disarray.

It’s no thanks to Westminster, I thought the Scots MP`s at our so called Scottish Parliament first duty would be loyalty to their own Parliament and the Scots people not Westminster?
Let’s be clear it’s not the fault of the SNP who are looking after the interest of the Scots people but rather the Scots Labour who we kicked out of power by the people for their terrible record over the years they had their chances but failed Scotland.
As long as Scots labour turn to Westminster they doing real damage to the Scots economy by undermining important infrastructure projects and are to back stabbing Holyrood because they did not get elected that should send a clear message to the Scots vote SNP, while England hold the purse strings the Scots are held to ransom.
9

TWC,

06/01/2009 13:30:07
15 Ray 1,Glasgow,
I have to agree, this is a Scottish need not an SNP need, Hence no Labour support.
There should be an uproer from all parties at holyrood and at Westminster for that matter.
10

The Strategist,

06/01/2009 13:33:24
So rather than make a positive contribution to help try to solve this problem for the benefit of Scotland Kerr would prefer to have a spat with the SNP which he must know he's going to loose.
11

TWC,

06/01/2009 13:34:57
uproar
12

Cracker06,

Livingston 06/01/2009 13:35:27
This may be a mute point but shouldn't the SNP government have ensured the funding was agreed upon before making the announcement about the bridge. No they make the announcement and then go cap in hand to get the money - This smacks of yet another SNP 'Let's pick a fight with Westminster' stunt just for the sake of it.
13

Salmond Rushdie,

06/01/2009 13:37:20
What is scary about all of this is the way in which both Westminster and the Scottish Government set their budgets against non existent financial reserves. Brown is throwing money at the banks et al as though it is going out of fashion. Salmond and Swinney are constantly announcing new public projects when they don't even have the money in place, on the hope they will be able to scare Westminster into handing the money over.

The SNP need to be careful. They are moving fast to the referendum and if they are not careful they will end up with a litany of failed promises. They cannot expect to win the referendum simply by blaming Westminster for all of their failures. That won't wash with the Scottish people. The SNP need to deliver and fast.
14

Shave,

Edinburgh 06/01/2009 13:42:27
Perhaps they could debate the necessity of an additional bridge when the present FRB may have 80 years of life left in it, and the rail bridge has spare capacity

This proposed crossing would be the FIFTH of the Forth.
15

TWC,

06/01/2009 13:51:02
21 Salmond Rushdie
Labour are such a disaster and Calman such a let down that Independence is looking like the only route to Fiscal Autonomy and many of us would accept Independence rather than Status Quo.
Everybody budgets against expected income, otherwise you wouldn't buy a car or a house.
Unless you are retired with Independent Financial means.
16

lulach mac gille coemgain,

06/01/2009 13:55:29
An Emergency debate needs to be called by the people of Scotland to decide whether the Labor party are fit to run our country !
17

Darien,

Panama 06/01/2009 13:58:30
This is really a bridge too far for Brownshirt and the New Labour Quislings. It should be relatively easy for the Scottish Government will show that Brown is putting a spanner in the works of Fife's new bridge.

As is the case in any Holyrood parliamentary debate the Scottish Nationalists will show up the British Nationalists for what they - anti Scottish.
18

Miss H,

06/01/2009 13:59:24
20 Jeezo you are another one who does not actually read stories.

People do not normally go 'cap in hand' to ask for their own money and can I remind you that the money to pay for the new Forth crossing is your money (assuming you are a taxpayer) and my money. It does not belong to the Treasury.

The SNP Government has already made a rock solid commitment to build the new crossing using conventional procurement. That can either be paid for over a 20 year period if the Treasury cooperates or over a 3 year period if they don't. But it will happen.

The only reason I can think of why Labour would want an emergency debate is if they want to reverse the decision to build the new crossing.

They never told the people of Glenrothes that, did they?
19

Miss H,

06/01/2009 14:01:08
21 May I also remind you that the money Westminster is 'handing over' is actually our own money?
20

Calum10,

06/01/2009 14:06:00
So what are Labour themselves proposing?

Answer: PFI, Bridge Tolls and cuts in public services.

Any new PFI project will be on the government's books and this will ultimately mean cuts in public services.

Any new PFI project will be overly expensive, so as David Whitton has already conceded, that means the return of Bridge Tolls.

This is Labour's Triple Whammy for Scotland: The return of PFI, the re-imposition of Bridge Tolls and cuts in Public Services.

Scotland doesn't need enemies when it has the Labour party.
21

Yok Finney,

Ross-shire 06/01/2009 14:06:11
There's plenty life in the old bridge but not as a major road-freight crossing. That's why we need a new bridge. It's no longer an audacious feet of engineering but going for a well tried and tested cost-effective design.

There's alot of potential in the rail network. But that requires new and different thinking about how scottish national infrastructure is funded. That's another story.
22

Rufus-T-Firefly,

06/01/2009 14:16:00
In May, Mr Swinney told Newsnight Scotland : “Of course that's the type of project (The new Forth Bridge) that could be taken forward under the auspices of this model (SFT)”.

So why is the Scottish Futures Trust not being used to build the new bridge?
23

Rufus-T-Firefly,

06/01/2009 14:16:34
Alex Salmond, Evening News, September 5, 2006 "If we have a new bridge, a bond issue is definitely the way to do it. Compared like for like, bond issue against PFI, the savings would be in tens of millions, maybe even hundreds of millions. Because it's such an iconic project, that would have a wonderful take up and resonance not just in Scotland but worldwide."
24

Rufus-T-Firefly,

06/01/2009 14:17:11
Fergus Ewing, The Scotsman, December 22, 2006 "Financing the scheme through a bond issue under the SNP's proposed Scottish Futures Trust is seen by experts as significantly cheaper in the longer term than Labour's preferred option of private finance. While a replacement crossing is vital, we must ensure that we use a cost-effective method to fund the project."
25

Rufus-T-Firefly,

06/01/2009 14:17:42
SNP Manifesto P.19 "Over the first term of an SNP government we will introduce a not-for-profit Scottish Futures Trust, which will provide lower cost borrowing opportunities. We expect the Scottish Futures Trust to emerge as a more attractive source of funding for both national and local projects which will effectively crowd out PFI/PPP over time."
26

Donnie Murdo,

Western Isles 06/01/2009 14:19:15
What public spending projects has Westminster "brought forward" to Scotland?
27

Rufus-T-Firefly,

06/01/2009 14:20:55
So....................why no Scottish Futures Trust to build the bridge?

An ideal opportunity for the SNP to prove to everybody that the Scottish Futures Trust actually works.

It is the only way the SNP can stop everybody laughing at them.
28

Donnie Murdo,

Western Isles 06/01/2009 14:22:24
What public spending projects has Westminster "brought forward" to Scotland?
29

Elephant,

Linlithgow 06/01/2009 14:27:36
Belated happy new year all. Can anyone direct me to a pic of the new proposed bridge - I'd like a look see?
#27 Anecdotally, the people of Glenrothes would prefer NOT to have another road link across the water - just some half decent public transport alternatives to Edinburgh, and Glasgow in particular. The Fife loop rail service is prehistoric in its slowness and at my last count their was only one Kirkcaldy-Glasgow train PER day. Meanwhile a fast ferry link from Kirkcaldy to Edinburgh with connecting buses would seem inventive - but I worry has been mothballed forever...
30

David Ban,

04620 Vera Spain 06/01/2009 14:40:34
What a wonderful opportunity for Marxist Labour to implement a huge capital project to give employment to some of the Scottish Proletariat. A new Forth Road bridge would fit in well with Gordy Broon's plans to use public works to alleviate the recession.

Even better if he removed the stranglehold of taxes and bureaucracy on "small businesses" in the UK which contribute so mush to the economy, that would be decisive thinking. At least Salmon & Co. are on Scotland's side!
31

Rufus-T-Firefly,

06/01/2009 14:52:02
Elephant, here is the proposed bridge if built using the Scottish Futures Trust.

http://jonhoward.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/2007/11/05/collapsing_bridge.jpg
32

Neil Waugh,

Old Strathcona 06/01/2009 15:02:20
Every recession-rocked, market-economy government in the world has seized on "infrastructure" as the way of government riding to the rescue and reversing the downturn.
Except, apparently Idiot Broon and the present Westminster occupiers of the sovereign nation of Scotland.
Surely the new Forth Bridge qualifies as "infrastructure".
And if the "United Kingdom" really is this free, equal and sacred entity that Scotland's Labour overlords claim it is. then the new bridge should be a no-brainer.
Come on Fat Man, buck up.
Save the union, get Scottish tradesmen back up their ladders.
The Forth Road bridge is a perfect way of saving the "British" from their own excesses.
33

Rufus-T-Firefly,

06/01/2009 15:05:08
46 The Spook in Leith,06/01/2009 15:02:15

HA HA

You would not be far wrong.
34

,

06/01/2009 15:06:33
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
35

Rufus-T-Firefly,

06/01/2009 15:07:26
Mind you Spook, here is the bridge after Salmond walked over it.

http://i.pbase.com/o4/17/615717/1/66518829.AHXj1ksu.DSC_2697.jpg
36

Hugh Roscombe,

06/01/2009 15:15:01
Kerr checks the approach road to the new bridge.

tinyurl.com/5x6bfk
37

Rufus-T-Firefly,

06/01/2009 15:15:53
Here we go, Traquir, Scotlands very own Leo Tolstoy.

His posts make War and Peace look like

"THINGS I CAN'T AFFORD" by Bill Gates
38

Rufus-T-Firefly,

06/01/2009 15:17:46
51 ploughmans lunch,06/01/2009 15:10:14
http://tinyurl.com/9gswqy.
Jabba and kerr go walkies on the forth Rd bridge.
=================================================

HA HA, good one.
39

Rufus-T-Firefly,

06/01/2009 15:18:49
52 Hugh Roscombe,06/01/2009 15:15:01
Kerr checks the approach road to the new bridge.

tinyurl.com/5x6bfk
============================================

You guys are on good form today.
40

Rufus-T-Firefly,

06/01/2009 15:23:36
I know we are in a recession, but was it really worth downgrading the First Minister's Limo?

41

TWC,

06/01/2009 15:23:53
Rufus, c'mon even you have to accept this is a Scottish need not a Nat need. All parties should back bringing the money forward.
It is ludicrous to Hog tie Holyrood to living within pocket money when addressing such a spend and when Fiscal Stimulus is being proposed for ALL of UK I presume.
42

Rufus-T-Firefly,

06/01/2009 15:24:01
oops I forgot the link

http://www.troodi.com/files/5f348f4f5f34.jpg
43

Rufus-T-Firefly,

06/01/2009 15:25:11
59 TWC,06/01/2009 15:23:53
Rufus, c'mon even you have to accept ......
================================================

Come on my man, a 20 year loan?

How can anybody commit to that?
44

Elephant,

Linlithgow 06/01/2009 15:26:24
#45 & 46 you tinkers!
Having been in Sth Queensferry on NYD, the mere sight of those bathers wilts even the sturdiest of erections...
45

Rufus-T-Firefly,

06/01/2009 15:28:46
The Spook in Leith, HA what a card you are.

People post links to fat/broken bridge photos saying its Kerr and Bailie and you say 'very realistic, Lol'

I do a similar one for Salmond and you say 'very immature'.

Typical NatZ response.
46

Rufus-T-Firefly,

06/01/2009 15:29:28
63 The Spook in Leith

Very Immature.
47

Rufus-T-Firefly,

06/01/2009 15:33:54
Hey Spook, I read your blog about Israel.

You know I read it dont you?

I left you some comments before.

Anyway have you seen the video of Hamas using ambulances to launch attacks on the Israelis?
48

McP,

Cowdenbeath 06/01/2009 15:36:44
The SNP's amateurish, grand gesture style of Government is gradually unravelling. Which would be funny if it wasn't the future of Scotland's economy at stake here. The last Labour Government were clowns for sure, but the SNP are like Emperor Palpatine crossed with Rab C Nesbitt - dangerous hidden agendas, but delivered with all the finese of a drunken inbecile.
49

Rufus-T-Firefly,

06/01/2009 15:47:39
#71 Spook, this may be of interest (nothing gruesome in it)

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=116_1231063776
50

Wardog™,

06/01/2009 15:49:59

"...That particular scheme, where basically they were asking to borrow money from budgets that had yet to be allocated over an extremely long period, that's something that we just don't do. I think they ought to have been aware of that....."

Darling is obviously unaware of what PPP is.

Borrowing Money against unknown budgets over a 30 year life-cycle at a rate higher than that which the UK Government can get money at.



51

Rufus-T-Firefly,

06/01/2009 15:57:48
Spook, I will go and have a proper read of it.
52

livilion,

livingston 06/01/2009 16:20:40
Cannot be ersed scanning through the name calling and insults, but was it not 1993 when Ian Lang was Secy of State for Scotland under Margaret Thatcher that Edinburgh's Labour councillors shot down local MP John MacDougal's request to replace the Forth Road Bridge?

This was about the same time the Severn Suspension Bridge was found to have similar problems.

The Second Severn Crossing has been carrying traffic for a decade now, and the 2016 date for opening the new Forth Road Bridge is going to be three years after it is closed to commercial traffic.

Was it not Jack McConnell FM who promised if his Executive were re-elected in May last year that he would then look at commissioning a (Sir Humphrey speak?)feasability study?
Labour it seems are the very boys for thinking about doing things sometime after the next election, even if it takes 14years or so to get to the point of actively thinking about it.

Now who is giving lectures on incompetence?
53

TWC,

06/01/2009 16:23:32
61 Rufus-T-Firefly,
Rufus What if it does take 20 years to pay it, we're not going anywhwrw except to Fiscal Autonomy or if we don't do something for Scotland it will be independence.
This is the cheapest deal and it will offer a Fiscal Stimulus. If it is not done Labour will once again show their unequal treatment of Scotland.
All parties support the bridge so it is not only SNP who gat the credit.
54

Rufus-T-Firefly,

06/01/2009 16:24:40
82 livilion,livingston 06/01/2009 16:20:40

What Labour did is irrelevant.

This is the brave new world in which the SNP were going to prove they were different.

It turns out they are worse.
55

Hugh Roscombe,

06/01/2009 16:30:13
I've just read that Israel - with its precision bombing - has managed to kill 50 at a UN-run school. I mention this as umpteen posters a day or so ago were going on about these "precision" weapons.
56

TWC,

06/01/2009 16:32:14
85 The Spook in Leith,

Aye he's ok sometimes when he is willing to debate but his last comment was fish

"This is the brave new world in which the SNP were going to prove they were different.

It turns out they are worse".
I may not be a Nat but SNP have been a Revelation compared with New Labour, and they've done it with old Labour policies. That makes it even worse.


57

Observer,,

Glasgow 06/01/2009 16:38:39
Personally I welcome a debate on this matter, I think it was extrmely generous for Labour to ask for one. They are going to get slaughtered.

Unfortunately the Gazans are also getting slaughtered in increasing numbers, which again we can't comment on. That does not indicate support for Hamas, it indicates concern for civilians trapped in Gaza. These accelerating deaths were predictable but are still ocurring.
58

livilion,

livingston 06/01/2009 16:51:21
87 TWC
2nd that, James Keir Hardie, Big John MacLean and Jimmy Reid must be birlin in their graves at antics of the present champions of The Workers.

I'd suggest the difference between Labour in Scotland and the SNP is that it is in the SNPs interests to make Scots feel better off and better looked after, whereas Labour need to keep an impoverished underclass to be 'protected' from the Bosses for their core support.

Labour talk the talk a good game about what they're going to do: Education, education, education(for those who can afford to pay for it) first class healthcare(for those who can afford to pay for it)new houses(for those who can afford to pay for it)

The SNP from what I can see are at least trying to walk the walk, inspite of being hobbled at every turn by weepy wullie nae-sayers and 'deary, we cannae dae thon fur wersells'.

For the rest of us: trying and failing is ok by me, being too feart to try anything is shameful.
59

Miss H,

06/01/2009 17:12:43
83 It will be built whether the funding is structured over 20 years or 3 years.

Labour are just playing silly games.

The only place for them to go with this emergency debate is to call for the project to be halted.

There is no point in them calling for it to be built with PFI/PPP because as Yvette Cooper's letter makes plain the rules the Treasury have decided to apply would constrain a private finance deal as much as traditional procurement because PFI/PPP deals are to be brought onto the balance book.

All that would be achieved by a private finance deal therefore is to make the construction more expensive.
60

Colin Midlem,

Belmont, USA 06/01/2009 17:17:05
What a load of nonsense. Have these correspondents nothing better to do with their time and our cyberspace?
61

GM,

06/01/2009 17:21:04
Hypocrisy
==========

On the one hand Labour in Westminster announce multi-billion pound public projects being brought forward to boost employment and the economy generally...

then...

When Scotland asks for the money to be spread our of budgets for 20 years to boost the Scottish economy with the biggest public porject since the parliament building, Labour says no.



It really does boggle the mind...
In fact the political irony in yesterdays paper version of the Scotsman was obviously lost on some as both of the above stories appeared on the same page!!!
62

Miss H,

06/01/2009 17:23:37
61 Do you know where you are going with that argument?

It's not a 'loan' - the Government (whether Scottish or Westminster) does not loan us our own money.

The argument that we can't commit the budgets of future Scottish (or possibly Westminster) Governments implies that they might decide not to proceed with the project.

So - again - we have Labour heading in the direction of arguing against a new Forth crossing.

The amazing thing is that I don't know if they are aware that is the direction they are headed in.
63

Finnking,

Lempäälä 06/01/2009 17:26:48
Letter from Gaza:

http://tinyurl.com/73fbby
64

alanh,

ek 06/01/2009 17:48:57
Andy Kerr, "The Labour MSP went on: "The new Forth Bridge is Scotland's biggest construction project in a generation and the SNP are making a mess of it."

ok andy enlighten us all.
What plans did the previous administartion have in place.? How was it to be funded?
If none why?

The SNP have fully costed what the bridge should cost under their plans what method would the nu liebour party, north Britian dept, use and how much would it cost?
Are you in favour of charging tolls to cross the new bridge?

yep I cant wait for a full debate in holyrood over this. It should be a laugh
65

,

06/01/2009 17:59:06
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
66

Churchill W.,

06/01/2009 18:06:28
The Spook in Leith, # 41

Hi Omar, (Kader) the SNP will be able to afford a better bridge than that when they have raided the budgets for the promised schools, hospitals and extra police officers.
You should tell people too that the blogsite that your link is pointing to is yours, otherwise some new people here might think you are disingenuous and a publicity seeker; the rest of us already know that you are ;-)

67

alanh,

ek 06/01/2009 18:09:50
#96 sm

have you found out how much the bridge would cost under PFI yet sm?


68

,

06/01/2009 18:11:07
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
69

,

06/01/2009 18:11:50
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
70

brownlie,

06/01/2009 18:28:03
98 Churchill W

Paisley Pete, it is never a good idea to name names on this site.
71

Miss H,

06/01/2009 18:31:59
108 Come on - that's a bit pathetic.

The argument being made by Labour is that it is impossible to fund a major capital project over 20 years - it has to be funded over a 3 year period.

That's just rubbish and you know it. And so do they.
72

alanh,

ek 06/01/2009 18:32:39
#103 sm

have you found out yet how much the bridge would cost with even the best method of PFI yet?
73

brownlie,

06/01/2009 18:33:12
108 sm753

I deny, absolutely, that the amount spent on defence by this country is entirely appropriate.
74

Churchill W.,

06/01/2009 18:48:34
brownlie # 106

Why not? You said a few weeks ago that you are John Brownlie from Kirkintilloch. Neither do I remember you being so coy when AM2 was supposedly outed, name, address, car number, waist and shoe size. The Spook in Leith is vain enough to have posted on other sites in his own name. He should have remembered that those of us with access to the Linguistics facilities at HerryTwinge University would use them the same way that he has.

I bet the real JB of that place is a bit hacked off with you, he will have had his windows replaced a dozen times or so since your revelation.
Who is Paisley Pete, is he a builder of bridges and can he do a deal for Salmond, Swinney, Jimmy (Nicola Sturgeon) Krankie and Co? They need a deal, fast!
75

,

06/01/2009 18:56:32
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
76

,

06/01/2009 18:57:01
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
77

Jimmy Le Pie,

06/01/2009 19:00:19
Has anyone from the Unionist/PFI/PPP camp come out with a figure for building the bridge under Comrade Darling's wonderful PFI/PPP pyramid scheme???

78

brownlie,

06/01/2009 19:02:43
114 Churchill W.

I've never had my windows replaced and if they were it certainly would not be under PFI.

You are perfectly aware of who Paisley Pete is and so will everyone on this site when you eventually go into your customary rant out of frustration when your pathetic postings are soundly trashed as usual.

I don't recall the Spook posting his own name on his site and I'm sure I would have noticed.

As for the AM2 issued I criticised that poster on several occasions. You may recall that yourself as you were posting under one of your many monikers at the time before you were barred and forced to pick your present one.
79

Churchill W.,

06/01/2009 19:08:39
How much is this bridge going to cost anyway? There seems to be a lot of latitude between £1.7Bn and £2.34Bn. Funnily enough, that £634,000 margin is almost exactly what the worlds ugliest bus driver gave to the SNP to so that they could rig the May 2007 election. Is that sum significant?

In any case now that the SNP have given the upper limits of their "budget," I doubt that any quotation for "The Salmond Bridge" will be any less than £2.34Bn.
There will not be a bridge anyway, the false bridge promise will go the way of the rest of the SNPs promises, nowhere. Like Sarah Palin's bridge to nowhere!
80

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 06/01/2009 19:13:38
Seems to me that we should be questioning the role of the Prime Minister and the Treasury in UK matters.

I get the impression that they cannot differentiate between UK matters and devolved matters.

A parliament for England would help. When Broon farts though his mooth how are we supposed to know whether he is meaning the UK or England? What does he represent - and in what capacity?

I say screw them. Use the 3 year plan and build the bridge with our own pocket money.

But keep taking a record of the UK spending figures.
81

,

06/01/2009 19:14:39
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
82

radge dug,

06/01/2009 19:20:27
The buck stops with Labour. Until Scotland has full control of it's budget, fiscal autonomy and independence then untimately we will rely on the goodwill of London.

If London Labour has enough money for tax cuts, building projects to provide jobs, not to mention for Iraq then why can't they spend some in Scotland?
83

Churchill W.,

06/01/2009 19:22:44
brownlie # 119

I know you don't want to talk about The, putative, Salmond Bridge, but, we have to, so, talk!

"The Spook in Leith is vain enough to have posted on other sites in his own name." Words of few syllables not clear enough for you? I did not say that he had used his own name here. But, veracity is not your strong point. Multiple logins are!

You have never soundly trashed any postings here, especially mine.
I will run that linguistics programme again soon and see what is your true connection to Omar.
How are the Spartans FC doing lately? I don't have the time to follow junior football, maybe you can keep me up to date with a weakly written précis. Let me know how Omar gets on in the US too?
84

Niall,

Cairnbulg Aberdeenshire 06/01/2009 19:25:28
#108 SM753

"No, since the SNP-approved GERS shows we are getting a good deal financially out of the Union, combined with greater-than-pro-rata political weight."

Still trotting out this blatant lie I see. I have taken you to task on this subject before. GERS 2006/7 is the record of the LAST Labour/LibDem administration and the accounts were signed off by one J McConnell esq former first Minister. Has it not yet entered your ivory carapace that GERS has been comprehensively discredited in the past as a propaganda exercise. Look at my last paper "The Great Obfuscation" for more details and "The Great Deception" before that.

You witter on about Union benefits when there are precious few. Are you totally blind to reality when a major infrastructure project (The New Forth Crossing) is slapped down by your beloved Labour party in London yet massive investments are approved for England and Wales? An equal union? You have be joking when one partner in this union is more equal than the other. In your view should Scotland be treated equally or not? Lets have your Unionist take on that.

'S Mise le meas
Niall Ban.
85

TWC,

06/01/2009 19:26:12
123 Traquir , Alba,
don't associate all Unioists with Labour ar assume we don't support the Bridge funding being brought forward.
All Scots should be supporting this.
In Fact if you look you'll see it is only the usual New Labour trolls who are against it Smee, Churchill, Ewan m, Rufus and they could be employees.
The usual Neutral poster are all in support of the Nats.
86

Churchill W.,

06/01/2009 19:26:56
Col. Blimp IV* # 122

I know someone who bought one of those Kirby machines nearly 30 years ago, the price then was about £620. He must have been a good salesman.
There must be a bridge, or, two in France for sale that would do Salmond, perhaps it is for sale under the French "Viager" system?
87

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 06/01/2009 19:31:08
Further to my comment about Broon farting though his mooth, I would also like to know how much Scottish taxpayers shell out on England only projects.
88

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 06/01/2009 19:33:31
Smee, you really are something else. A throwback to the redcoats?

You want to nuke a 4x4 at Glasgow airport?
89

,

06/01/2009 19:33:59
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
90

Niall,

Cairnbulg Aberdeenshire 06/01/2009 19:35:10
#123 Traquair
That estimate is a little on the low side. I calculated it out over a 30 year period and the PPP/PFI contract would earn the investors some £30.4 to £32.9 Billions over and above the capital value of the bridge. Certainly a nice return for the measly Labour party donations. This is Brownite economics on the grand scale and completely insane in conception and execution.

'S Mise le meas
Niall Ban.
91

Churchill W.,

06/01/2009 19:36:25
The SNP want to blame everyone, but, themselves for their inability to advance their overblown prospectus.

Guess who they will blame when they lose Salmond's independence referendum, yes, you have guessed it, The Unionist Parties?

I suggest a competition to name name Salmond's putative bridge. The Salmond Bridge is NOT good enough, too much cult of personality implied.
92

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 06/01/2009 19:41:06
135, Oh Yes.

Why is naming a bridge important to you?
93

,

06/01/2009 19:44:22
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
94

Churchill W.,

06/01/2009 19:45:16
Jock Tamson # 136

Everything about bridges is important. If a bridge did not have a name how would you know if you were going over the right one? Stupid boy!

Aarr, yonder bridge...
95

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 06/01/2009 19:46:23
Normal traffic directions.

Get on the motorway. When you get over the bridge take the first exit and follow the signs for...

....apart from directions outwith the central belt which would be:

When you get over the bridge take the first exit (left or right) and follow the signs for...
96

Navvy,

06/01/2009 19:48:05
Labour were worse

But scrap the bridge plan and build a proper tunnel which can last 100 years
97

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 06/01/2009 19:48:30
139, Oh Yes.

If you were on the wrong road you would be going over the wrong bridge.
98

,

06/01/2009 19:49:05
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
99

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 06/01/2009 19:51:27
141, Navvy. The landscape and navigation channels apparently rule out that option on cost.

Now if it were to do with London........
100

Coileach an taobh Tuath,

06/01/2009 19:55:44

Sm753

"...The SNP knew that a new bridge was needed when they were elected.

Why didn't they budget for it?....."



Labour had been in power for EIGHT YEARS, they'd know that a replacement bridge was required from atleast 2003..,....

WHY DIDN'T THEY BUDGET FOR IT?

101

Rufus-T-Firefly,

06/01/2009 19:56:19
Why can Salmond not apply for a bridging loan?

I'll get me coat.
102

Churchill W.,

06/01/2009 19:56:26
Jock Tamson # 142

You've lost me...
What we need is more bridges to use as landmarks.
103

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 06/01/2009 19:56:44
Why don't we all face up to facts.

As the Empire died the internal conficts began. This is what we are witnessing today.

The divorce is all we can look forward to.
104

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 06/01/2009 19:59:35
149, Oh Yes.

You need to spend more time map reading than nodding your head on the back shelf of a car.
105

Churchill W.,

06/01/2009 20:04:04
Is Barack Obama pro Israel and does he believe that the UK government should advance Salmond a chunk of change to build a bridge to Salmond's favourite Fife drinking holes?
106

Coileach an taobh Tuath,

06/01/2009 20:04:49

Why didn't Labour budget for this in 2006?

"Scottish Labour knows that a crossing across the Forth is vital to the entire economy of the East coast of Scotland. It is a critical transport and economic concern. Scottish Labour will build a replacement forth crossing and will use EMERGENCY legislation if necessary.

Scottish Labour will also remove all tolls on the Tay Bridge and for multiple-occupancy cars on the Forth Road Bridge"

Labour Manifesto May 2007


"...Making the right decision on a replacement for the Forth Bridge is the most important transport task facing Scotland today. As a bottom line, we must be in a
position to give early go-ahead for a replacement crossing. We must do all we can to remove any risk of a period of closure, with the devastating effect that would have on the economy of Scotland and in particular the economy of the east coast and north of our country.

A new bridge remains an option, however we have concerns about both the construction cost and the time it will take from decision to delivery. In government we will do all we can to fast-track the planning and parliamentary process. And we will give full consideration to all options for the new crossing including a Forth Tunnel....."
107

Coileach an taobh Tuath,

06/01/2009 20:05:00
"...Making the right decision on a replacement for the Forth Bridge is the most important transport task facing Scotland today. As a bottom line, we must be in a
position to give early go-ahead for a replacement crossing. We must do all we can to remove any risk of a period of closure, with the devastating effect that would have on the economy of Scotland and in particular the economy of the east coast and north of our country.

A new bridge remains an option, however we have concerns about both the construction cost and the time it will take from decision to delivery. In government we will do all we can to fast-track the planning and parliamentary process. And we will give full consideration to all options for the new crossing including a Forth Tunnel....."

SNP MANIFESTO MAY 2007
108

Churchill W.,

06/01/2009 20:10:00
Jock Tamson # 151

I like map reading from the parcel shelf, it's much more efficient than the wife getting us lost.

That parcel shelf line is an old one. Are you sitting on someone's shoulder, by any chance?
Where's that bridge, where's that effing Salmond Bridge?
109

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 06/01/2009 20:12:37
152, ploughmans lunch.

Forget Carillion. That's a glorified management structure. Construction companies have traditionally undertaken not-for-profit contracts in lean times to maintain their payroll obligations.

You did say that was earlier on this year. I take it you meant last year.

I'm quite convinced the tenders coming in now will be very good value for money.
110

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 06/01/2009 20:16:55
157, Oh Yes.

So by your own admission you would rather know where you have been than where you are going.

Well, you have been in Uniontasia.
111

,

06/01/2009 20:23:02
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
112

,

06/01/2009 20:23:23
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
113

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 06/01/2009 20:28:34
Smee, you never got back to me about 132.

Your domestic defence plans would be most gratefully received.
114

Churchill W.,

06/01/2009 20:29:20
ploughmans lunch # 159

As much as I like Bob Martin's choccy drops I was hoping you could recommend a little cheesey number as a treat. You are known as a cheesey sweetheart.

A little "fromage de brebis" from you personal recollection might bridge the division between our respective positions, n'est pas?
115

Churchill W.,

06/01/2009 20:32:58
Jock Tamson # 160

As Salmond once said, "If you don't know which bridges you've crossed, how can ye tell which yins y'll cross next."
Salmond is obsessed with bridges; he's lost!
116

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 06/01/2009 20:34:55
From what I can see, a few kelly blocks have negated the Glasgow Airport incident from happening again.

30 newton at the most. Few hundred each. Cheaper than a nuke.
117

brownlie,

06/01/2009 20:36:01
125 churchill

It seems that I am not the only one who has difficulty in understanding words of one syllable. If you read my posting again I made no mention of me thrashing you or any other poster on hear. I leave that kind of comment who consider it of a degree of importance.

You have been, however, put in your place on more than one occasion until you began ranting and raving and showed your true colours. Actually it must be getting near that time now.

As for the bridge it is surely sound economic sense for the SNP to assess alternatives rather than hastily adopt the Labour Party's favourite PPP which uses up an exorbitant amount of tax-payers's money compared to other options.
118

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 06/01/2009 20:38:33
168, Oh Yes. Go and curl up with smee. Smell each other's bottoms and settle down.
119

Rodster,

/glasgow 06/01/2009 20:45:32
Churchill , are you in the pay of one of the Unionist parties or do you choose to speak your country down from some defect in your character?
Perhaps it is because you really are not that intelligent and unable to think for yuorself , and go to those branch meetings where they fill your tiny napper with all this bovine faecous you spout
120

Churchill W.,

06/01/2009 20:52:26
brownlie # 170/171

Not bad, two of your monikers posting in the trot.

Nobody takes you seriously since you were convicted here of posting under serial monikers The Linguistics Department at HerryHinge University, Edinburgh, was only too happy to confirm that you are the abuser of many a moniker. Keep playing with your monikers, no doubt they provide a bridge between your fantasy world and our, very real world.
121

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia Alba 06/01/2009 20:58:02
Smee, are you not in your basket yet?
122

Churchill W.,

06/01/2009 20:59:04
Rodster # 172

I will take anybody's cash even Salmond's. I do not talk my country down, only the SNP. The SNP are not Scotland. A nappy wetter, like you, will fail to make that distinction though.

I suspect that you have an IQ not exceeding 118, but, more likely 110. Prove me wrong!
123

brownlie,

06/01/2009 21:04:23
173 Churchill

"..convicted here ...? Where and when? Come on, you must be due a rant - you know you want to!
124

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 06/01/2009 21:07:40
175, OhYes.

So you only talk the SNP down. Not Scotland.

Get back in your basket for you talk Scotland down when you talk the SNP down. Do you think you talk Scotland up by talking unionist parties up?

I suspect you would not be able to recognise an IQ greater than 118.
125

Churchill W.,

06/01/2009 21:13:57
brownlie # 176

Figuratively speaking, you are convicted. Are you denying your multiple monikers?
Why would you want to deny so many facets of your character, your life? You enjoy the deceit don't you? That is typical of SNP supporters from Salmond to the bottom, where you reside.
If Salmond can't get the support to build a bridge, what is he for? Answers on a postage stamp to; brownliar@liar.com.
126

Rodster,

Glasgow / Dubai 06/01/2009 21:18:44
as to my IQ Churchill well no need to boast that is why I have been languishing in Dubai since 20th of last month.
That is why despite your government in London screwing hte economy I had sense to open a business unaffected by such downturns.
A business that noe day I look forward to you being one of my customers.
I know as a supporter of Scotland , the SNP and Independence that I will prevail , you in a lack of IQ believe that you can hold back the inevitable ...
Oh how they laughed at the post Independence Party!!!
127

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 06/01/2009 21:21:35
Different Oh Yes on shift now.
128

brownlie,

06/01/2009 21:23:50
178 Churchill

You are no stranger to deceit, are you, Pete? As your pal sm753 would say, facts and figures please?

If you really read the newspapers instead of posting nonsense you would know that the bridge will be built by this Scottish Government - one way or the other.

Why are Labour looking for an "emergency" debate when they previously had eight years in which to discuss it but were too busy filling in their expenses?

Can you recall some of your previous moniker? Oh, I forgot, the Scotsman monitor won't print them. They are forced to print Labour's spin instead.

You must be due to go off on one any time soon!
129

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 06/01/2009 21:23:54
Like all Scotsman trolls they come in litters. You could call them the ill litter 8
130

Churchill W.,

06/01/2009 21:24:09
Jock Tamson, # 177

Where have I talked any "Unionist" party up? Showing the SNP for what they are is not talking up any other party up; tricky concept for you, I know. Talking about building a bridge is not the same as building one, but, Salmond and his co-conspirators haven't realised that yet.

I don't have to recognise any IQ above 118, only lower, like yours, so, that I can point it out and have a laugh at you, like everybody else here.
Is life a plod for you; duh?

131

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 06/01/2009 21:29:01
183, Oh Yes.

I know what you are. My IQ is 147, thank you.
132

Wardog™,

06/01/2009 21:30:33
161 Smee

I'll give ye this shmee, I salute your indefatigability.

Your obstinance , obstruction and outright obfuscation is a wonder to behold.

Despite the hours of firm public roasting that you receive on these comments pages, your always pert and ready to drop anything to defend the unionist cause.

It doesn't seem to matter how hard you've been slapped about the night before, there you are, chipper and ready to lie yourself through the next session. in a sleazy effort to hide your lowly snivelling, belly dragging carcass around these topics.

Now let slip the Dogs of War
133

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 06/01/2009 21:32:07
Correction - or addendum to 184.

My IQ in Scotland is 147. In England they told me it was 139.

How's that for union dividend?
134

arc of insolvency,

06/01/2009 21:33:11
Rodster, Mr Churchill is just fed up with some SNP supporters who proclaim to be great patriots writing bigoted blinkered posts on here which embaress the very thing they supposedly endear, that of Scotland.

I think it's starting to show that the SNP seek empowerment for themselves and nothing else. The SNP act in its own self interest no one elses - all too convient that's it always Westimnster's fault. As for Salmond's management of this if they think they are convincing any neutral they are having a laugh.
135

Churchill W.,

06/01/2009 21:36:16
brownlie # 181

Are you saying that you are not a liar, posting under multiple monikers? I don't give farg anyway what you say, we, know the truth, whatever you maintain publicly.
As for my "pal sm753," another misdirection of the jury. I have no idea who that individual is, you have more idea than I do. You are a stranger to the truth in the same way that Salmond is to the delivery of his campaign promises. The Salmond Bridge being the most recent disappoint for the Scottish people.
136

arc of insolvency,

06/01/2009 21:37:47
Oh no the king of the SNP bigots is on Mr Wardog. Wouldn't stay to long unless you want to see what a real small minded, self loathing SNP supporter sounds like.
137

alanh,

ek 06/01/2009 21:38:35
#126 sm

since yopur never going to answer the question about the PFI funding and seemed to have changed your preferred method of funding now you say....

"No, the argument being made by Labour is that a *Scottish* project should not need extra funding from the *UK* taxpayer over and above the already generous funding that is provided.

The SNP knew that a new bridge was needed when they were elected.

Why didn't they budget for it?"

Ok, if you want our govt to budget for it can you suggest what money they would use and what services/depts they could cut to pay for it?
Also what money had been saved by the last administration to pay for it cos they knew it was coming to the end of its life span?
138

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 06/01/2009 21:40:02
Now that the evening shift journalists are online I shall depart.

Happy click throughs, dummies.
139

brownlie,

06/01/2009 21:40:46
188 Paisley Pete

Yes, I am saying that I only post as Brownlie. Why should I post as anyone else. I don't recall, unlike you, posting such nonsense as to embarass me into changing my moniker.

Right, you print the monikers you think I post under and I'll look up your previous if I can get them past the moderator.
140

Hugh Roscombe,

06/01/2009 21:43:13
arc

Zzzzzzzzzzz
141

Wardog™,

06/01/2009 21:43:35
189 Arc of Incapacity

Speaking of being publicly roasted on a daily basis look who shows up out of the sewer of unionism.....

Any ideas about the estimated cost of a PPP Firth Road Bridge yetArc?

The nearest BILLION will do.

Have you managed to muster your thoughts on what it is to be Scottish and what 'Scotland' actually is?











No I didn't think so



142

Churchill W.,

06/01/2009 21:44:08
Jock Tamson # 186

Salmond is not qualified to assess your IQ. Anybody who believes what Salmond says gets what they deserve, like you.
You should be pleased at your Union dividend, obviously Salmond and his kind want to keep down. I know that every time I cross the border, (Scotland/England) that the average IQ rises on both sides of the border, can you say that?

Were you born before IQ test were properly developed to understand the implication of bridges, that might go some way to explaining the low estimation of your IQ. Failing that, you will have to accept that very low conclusion.
143

Wardog™,

06/01/2009 21:46:21
187. Arc of Hilarity

"..embaress..... Scotland...."

Creepy Crawler

144

Wardog™,

06/01/2009 21:48:09
195 Churchill Sent in the Tanks

Is IQ some new form of PFI that the Unionists have devised to fleece more money out of the public?



145

Churchill W.,

06/01/2009 21:50:57
brownlie # 192

I am surprised that you still allowed to post under your present moniker when you were deleted a few weeks ago for your persistent references to pornographic, gay websites.
The moderators have probably realised that they cannot stop people from registering under different names, with different email addresses and the faking others, like you do, regularly, Banksy.


146

brownlie,

06/01/2009 21:58:02
198 Paisley Pete

Not the first lie you've told on this site so you really are getting ready for a rant. Does the name Ciderman or Alfred E. Neuman ring any bells? They certainly dropped a few clangers on here.
147

brownlie,

06/01/2009 22:04:41
Good night, all!
148

bumpkin,

06/01/2009 23:03:02
forget the bridge, go for a tunnel
149

Brian Hill,

15/01/2009 19:03:34
London Labour really have made a stick to beat themselves with over this bridge funding.

Even they know the bridge must be built, it's vital to Scottish business, an economic necessity.

They also know that any form of public private partnership is effectively over.

And they claim there will be no tolls therefore how will the bridge be funded without having to drop many other important projects?

How about Government borrowing? That's the way they and every other Government does it....proper Governments that is.

Which ever way it goes, London Labour is not going to come out of this looking too clever, certainly not as clever as the SNP.




 

Comment on this Story

 

In order to post comments you must Register or Sign In

 
 
 
  

 
 

Featured Advertising



Sister Newspapers:
Press Complaints Commission

This website and its associated newspaper adheres to the Press Complaints Commission’s Code of Practice. If you have a complaint about editorial content which relates to inaccuracy or intrusion, then contact the Editor by clicking here.

If you remain dissatisfied with the response provided then you can contact the PCC by clicking here.